WEBVTT - Ugly truth of policing: Veronica Gorrie Pt.2 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:04.920 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.080 Detective sy a side of life the average persons never 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.120 exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.240 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.160 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.439 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.800 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.479 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.680 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.400 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.479 Welcome back to part two of my chat with Veronica Gory, 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.760 an Indigenous woman who joined the police to make a difference, 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:54.960 but found she was fighting an organization embedded with racism 0:00:54.960 --> 0:01:01.200 and discrimination. Veronica, welcome back, Thank you. Okay, I'm from 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.320 the notes out on this one. Where what are we 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:05.200 going to yarn about? And where's this going to take us? 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:07.959 So I think, prior to putting the headphones on or 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:12.360 getting being recorded, we're talking about. What were we talking about. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.200 We were talking about cases that don't get the attention 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.039 and the media, the media, the lack of interest. 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:19.520 That's right. 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.959 Yeah, so when I think I brought it up earlier, 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.600 when victims black fellows don't make good victims to police 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.040 because they're so used to locking us up. And so 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.440 when we do report matters, on the off chance that 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:36.479 we do report matters, and for example, a young Abrish 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.920 woman in Western Australia walked into a police station and 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.520 wanted to take a domestic violence order out on her partner. Brave, 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.640 very brave, because we don't turn to police for help. 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.960 But she'd obviously have been subjected to so much that 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.000 she had to like the last resort and she died 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.800 in custody. They locked her up and she ended up 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.720 dying custody, killed in custody. Yeah, so when we have 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.240 you just look at the media. They play a big 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:10.079 part in this as well. They don't report matters whereby 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.120 abriginal people or the victims, or you don't see mainstream 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:15.880 media about the abriaginal dressing custodies. 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.760 You see it on an I t V, SBS or 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.840 the A B C. Where you're quite often preaching to 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.600 the converted. But I know when I was in the 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.240 cops and the lack of interest in that if I 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.720 was investigating a murder with an Indigenous person in it 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.640 from from the media because it's it doesn't sell papers 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.280 or whatever. And I see it now that I'm in 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.800 the media. It's hard to get people interested in stories. 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.000 And I wonder what that's about. I often think, is 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.680 it because well, that's happened to an Indigenous person, It's 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:52.600 not going to happen to us because we're white. What 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:54.560 do you why do you think there's a lack of 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:58.200 interest from the from the media in indigenous matters like that. 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.880 I just think they don't give a fuck a about 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.080 the traditional owners of the country that they're you know 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:10.160 of this country and the stolen lands that they're now 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.840 living on. Don't give a fuck about us. So, you know, 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:18.440 they're still you know, like we've intergenerational trauma. They're still 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.680 carrying the the colonizers. 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:27.680 You know, we're carrying the attitude. You guys are carrying 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.160 the trauma. We're carrying the attitude. 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:33.480 Is that what you're saying, Yeah, they don't care about us, 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.320 like our lives don't matter. You know, it's just one 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.040 less black beatlet to deal with in this country. You know, 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:40.360 there's where's the outrage? 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:42.160 How can that be changed? 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.080 I don't I don't have all the answers. I think 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:51.760 with the families, I can say, keep pressing a lot 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.040 with the media, keep their stories, keep the you know, 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:59.000 their lives, their lives do matter. Your family members matter, 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.640 Your grief matters. And that's the thing with abishinal families. 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.040 Almost every Abershall family has been affected by a deaf 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:10.360 and custody and we're having death and custodies all over 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:16.279 this country. And as a community, we grieve for the families, 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.680 and we may not have met them, we grieve, we 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:23.240 cry with this family. And then what happens with that 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:30.000 family They bury their loved one, and then the coronial 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:34.839 inquest begins and then the family is subjected to visions 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.600 of the very last moments they loved one was a lower, 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:45.360 the last breath they loved one took. And then never 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:51.440 usually successful outcomes, which is what I mentioned before Abershare people, 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.479 we never usually have happy endings, which and that's what 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.920 I meant by that. And then whilst we go with 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.480 that family we're all hearing about it through our networks, 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:06.559 which is like cream MA, NATV, not mainstream media. There'll 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:09.520 be another different custody. So it's like as Aboriginal people 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:14.760 were always grieving and it's every day we're fighting the system, 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.800 and the justice system is set up to harm our people, 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.000 my people. You know, if they don't kill us, they're 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.159 locking us up, putting his way out aside, out of mind, 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:28.480 you know. And you talk about Northern Territory again, you've 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:32.280 got people getting Lemphy sentences up there for unlicensed driving 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:36.599 like fuck may like you know, like if a non 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:42.520 Indigenous person commits what is deemed to be you know, 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:49.080 a serious crime, an indictable offense, whereby it's they've harmed 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:54.720 a person, they're getting less less and like as a 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.240 black father, it's like where we've been made examples of. 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.800 It's like don't drive unlicensed you're going and you know what, 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.000 it's just. 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.280 I hear what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.839 If I play the devil's advocate here and say, well, 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.159 you know, if you if you do the crime, you 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:11.400 should do that, do the time. 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.840 Well here's who's crime is it? 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:17.080 So it's white man's crime. 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.560 Okay, so then it's not our crime. Okay, So then 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.560 you're breaking it and breaking it down to that. I 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.960 know I've had conversations with people saying that when kids 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.440 are young kids and your talk Northern Territory and they're 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.440 being locked up from an early age, it's virtually their 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.560 their direction in life has been stamped by that by 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.440 that direction in that they've got such a history, criminal 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.200 history by the time they're an adult. If they commit 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.320 an offense going inside, what. 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.599 Hope do they have as an adult? You know, they 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:52.200 carry that criminal history, white man's criminal history into the adulthood. 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:56.440 What chance of getting a job and housing? And do 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:57.800 they have they have nothing? 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.920 Do you see a better way of are going off track? 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.880 A better way of dealing with I talk here Indigenous kids. 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:09.039 That's a yeah, yeah, stop locking them mart and giving 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.800 back to the families. These kids belong at home, not 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.760 in cages. There's another thing I wanted to talk about. 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.880 When it's gone, no, let's ask the next question. It 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:18.480 might come back. 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:20.080 Yeah, maybe I haven't got a question. 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.960 Okay, now, oh Devil's advocate. 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.800 No, I'm saying that people might say, well, if they're 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.400 committing crimes. Yeah, isn't the answer to lock them up? 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:32.560 And I'm saying that. 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.720 Yeah, So as an abolitionist, I'm moving away from the 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.320 language of, you know, the justice system and the very 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:46.360 white justice system, and so crimes, white crime, okay, because 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.840 you've got to remember policing. The first police in this 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.440 country were white convicts. Yeah, so it comes from a 0:07:54.480 --> 0:08:00.960 criminal aspect anyway, Well, the white man's criminal aspect. To colonization, 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.280 we had no police here. There was no need for police. 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.720 We had our own ways of dealing with matters, which 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:07.680 we still do today. 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.160 Give us an example of that. It's something that people 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:11.040 have understand. 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.800 So, for example, if there's conflict in the family or 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.000 in the community, the first people we call is our 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:19.040 family members, and we sort it out that way through communication, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.080 sitting down and having yarns sorting it out. We don't 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.800 call cops because the loclihood of cops sort it out 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.520 is very minimal. But also cops turn up after the 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.120 harm is done. Anyway, what is the point of their presence. 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:38.800 It's already got that the harm's being done, We've already 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.880 sorted it out. I want to go back to when 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:46.959 I was a police officer. I went to a again 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:53.040 sorry trigger warning a suicide aberginal family and the way 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:57.640 we grieve. The neighbors called, I just come from the 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:02.079 job with the CVIL side and as we're leaving, another 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:06.040 job come through the radio and it was CO two 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.080 or any unit Code two light and sirens. Quite urgent 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:13.800 to attend the same address because there was a there 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:18.960 was an altercation of people being loud and the disturbances 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:23.160 and all this stuff and fighting going on, and I 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.040 had to get on the radio and say stand down 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:31.240 because that's their grieving. Even when it's grieving, it's perceived 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.240 to be a crime, white. 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:34.880 Crime because it's loud, and. 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:37.559 That's the way we grieve. That's the way we grieve. 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.040 Okay, yep, Little little things like that. 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.760 Yeah, And like those things weren't taught in the academy. 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.360 Another thing that wasn't taught in the academy academy when 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.880 I was there was that, And which I know they're 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:57.240 doing right now is they're separating female identifying recruits from 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:02.200 the male identifying recruits, and they're telling the females what 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:04.880 to expect when they're out there. You're going to be 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:06.640 preyed upon by the males. 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:08.040 As in the male cops. 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.160 Yes, yes, yep, yes. 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:16.839 Did you experience that? Yes? In what form? And how 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:17.600 did you deal with it? 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:22.160 So I went to a party expecting to have a 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.440 good time and I was sexually assaulted and then stalked 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.199 afterwards for that very same officer. 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.520 And in terms of the sexual assault, did you complain 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:33.440 or what was it? 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.560 I knew. I knew from being on the inside and 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:41.640 being a black collar, the complaint wouldn't have went anywhere. 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.360 No one step in, no one. 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:52.080 Yeah. My partner at the time dragged me away because 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:56.400 I feed for my safety that that night. Yeah, she 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:59.080 thought I was going to be gang raped, which is 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:03.000 quite common, which people I know, you kin'd of go 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:08.920 on your air. No, No, I'm group sex, yeah, gang rape. 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:11.920 I'm sitting here and thinking. 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:14.760 I'm bringing it all out. I've got no filters. 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.800 So the whole thing on here on the podcast I 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.000 Catch Killers. We want to hear your side of things. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:25.120 Why I'm looking pensive there, I'm thinking, fuck, if I 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.960 got a hint of that, I would knock the person out. 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.360 If there was a cop doing that to a female 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.280 police officer, I can't believe. I'm shocked that people didn't 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:37.600 stand up or. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:39.480 Yeah, only one person stood up for me, and that 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:43.920 was my partner, and he was trying to convince me 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.440 to put in a complaint, but I was too scared. 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.840 And then, and that's another thing. When I say I 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.800 was complicit, it means I did a lot of the 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:56.280 stuff that other cops did. I caused harm, I arrested people. 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.640 I had the highest restaurant in the district, and I 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:01.640 had to do that. I had to work ten times 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.080 harder than the white males that were in my squad. 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:06.640 What was driving you to do that? 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:08.440 I had to prove to them that I was just 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.720 a school if not better than them. I owned my 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:14.840 spot in this squad shamingly like shame. You know, I 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.920 regret it now, Like if I go back to Queen's 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:22.439 Lane and apologize every person I've ever arrested, or every 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.040 person's that was loaded up because they gave him attitude, 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:27.800 you know, cops. 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.560 Loaded what and we're talking here? 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.240 Oh sorry, here we go, please talk. Sorry. Trying to 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.000 move away from but I keep coming back to it. 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.520 So loading up if you're deemed to be a smart ass, 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.240 and someone like black fellows, who we know are rites, 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.480 when when cops pull you over as a black fellow. 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:46.880 When they say, oh, we're just pulled over to do 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.160 a random breath test. Random, it's not random. We know 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.360 why we're getting pulled over because we're black and we're 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:57.679 different to them. But what were we talking about just before? 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.080 You were talking about loading someone up on which. 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.160 Yeah, so if we're deemed it as young kids, Aboriginal people, 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.680 we've been due to twelve Aboriginal legal services. They give out, 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.319 you know, little cards. Know you're right. So even as 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:15.240 a ten year old kid, I knew my rights. If 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:20.160 pulled over or intercept it'll stop by police. So we 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.400 know our rights. We know what how much information you 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.960 were required to give to police, and know more well 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.760 you deemed to be a smart ass. And even as 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.160 an adult they or a child, they'll load you up, 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.760 obstruct police, public nuisance. 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.040 Okay, so they load you up. 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:40.280 With charges and enter and therefore you're entered into the 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.199 justice system which is also racist. 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.680 And that that that was your experience, and you were 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.480 saying that you were part part of it when you're 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.040 in there, Yeah, I was complicit in that. How does 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:52.959 that make you feel? There? 0:13:53.280 --> 0:14:00.400 Ship very shut, you know, very very short it at that. 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:04.640 But it's so you're talking about like a pretty horrible 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.240 culture in the police. And I can sit here and 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.680 say I'm a policeman too, and I know there was 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.480 good parts and bad parts about the culture of police. 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:15.520 What parts did you have? 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.680 I had? Well, piss ups. 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.880 No, I went through that stage and it nearly killed me. 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:24.840 And I felt like leaving the cops when it was 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:26.840 drinking every afternoon then yeah. 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:27.640 Yeah, and that's the thing. 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:32.240 So like I started in a squad, then yeah, it 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.760 was I'm not critical of the people, it was just 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.080 the way of the land culture. Yeah. So we work 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.040 hard and we drink hard. Son, that's a big slap 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:42.520 on the back. Here, you have another beer. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.560 And if you don't. So every for the listeners and 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.760 the viewers, every police station, every squad has their own bar, 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:56.800 the supplies apple, supplies of alcohol. And it would be 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:01.400 normal for me and for other other police that did 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.360 ten pm to six am shifts to have a drink 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.160 at six o'clock in the morning, seven o'clock in the 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.920 morning before you went home half a strove home pissed, 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:16.600 you know, I do know, no, Yeah, So, and what 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.120 the point is I'm trying to make is that if 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.400 you didn't do that, which is what which was part 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.120 of the reason why I was forced that I left 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.440 Queensound police. Further north you go up to Queensland, by 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.520 the way, the more racist that gets. They've never worked 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.120 with a nabritural police officer before, and they were like 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:42.720 what the fuck. Yeah, and if you're not involved in 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.720 the social bars and the piss up at the end 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.640 of the shifts, then you're ostracized. I had a family 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.840 to go home too. Yeah, I didn't want to do 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:52.560 that anymore. 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.760 Now I understand what you say. And there was a culture, 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.360 and I think it's been acknowledged that there was a 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.760 drinking culture in police in Queensland. I've been up there 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:05.160 doing jobs up there, and yeah, the bars in the 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.720 police station like we didn't have that in New South 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:12.000 Wales or not official bars, the curtains under under the table. 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.200 Not not not these days, I've got to say not. 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.720 I've been out for four or five years. But not 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.080 like it used to be. Like we could do. You 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.680 could sit around in detective's office and bring in a 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.960 cart and the beer and sit there and happily have 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.400 a drink at the end of the day. That's certainly 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:33.080 not not what I experienced prior to leaving the cops, 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.960 So I suggest some of it's changed, but it is 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:36.920 a tough environment. 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.280 Sorry, I'm smiling because I don't believe you. 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.880 But give me something, just tells me. 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.920 Right, you've still got mates in a job and you're protecting. 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:48.840 Let me let me say this. 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.160 Since I left the police, I'm allowed to associate with 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:57.000 police because i'm this yeah, notorious, notorious criminal. 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:59.480 Yeah, which is which is what I wanted to talk 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.480 to you about. They've gone after you. Hey, well they've 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.359 gone after you. You're fucked up. You're different to them, 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.280 You're freaking you're different breeds, so they'll find something on you, 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:10.760 and they found it. 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.920 Look, I don't want to say. I think the fact 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.800 that I was charged on a Friday before I met 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:21.360 the Parliamentary Committee on a Monday up at Barrable might 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.919 say something. Yeah, maybe it was just a coincidence that 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.359 it was urgent to charge me on the Friday before 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.439 I speak to the parliament group on the Monday, But 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:30.520 who knows. 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:31.240 I don't know. 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.040 Anyway, You're good, You're good. They should put two cops 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.440 in here because you're trying to turn this into your podcast. 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.120 Oh now do I take over? 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:44.399 Welcome to another episode of The Vices Killersted Veronica Gory. 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.720 Here we go in the cops. 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.040 You would have had some fun times in the cops, 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.240 some funny incident. We've got that dark humit. 0:17:54.440 --> 0:18:01.840 Yeah, yeah, like the dark humor was I had a 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.160 double fatal and sitting in the morgue. 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.200 Okay, this is dark. Okay, sorry, I've got real. 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:11.480 Dark hair, and I'm busting the door pay and I'm 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.600 working with a first year Connie, and so like, as 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:18.080 an aboriginal person, I believe in ghosts, marches, I call 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.760 him and so I've made him stand at the door 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.199 with my door opened while on paying. Another time, the 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:29.200 same first year Connie went to the hospital someone had 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:37.040 passed away and I had a and I've walked over 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.600 and it's come undone and the hose was just like 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.600 a sprinkler, like they're just going around and just like pissed, 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.800 flying and flying around, and so I was absolutely saturated. 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:48.440 And someone's piss. 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.560 That's a nice day at work, isn't it. Okay? 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:52.879 What are you? 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.159 What are you most proud of in the cops? Like 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:59.520 you left, God, you're a hard one I left, but 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:01.720 there was there would have been something good. 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:03.440 Well, you've already told the stuff. 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:05.320 There's stuff where you've gone to the community and they 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.400 could identify with you, and you could you could get 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.639 Uncle Harry down off the off the roof and stuff 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:11.000 like that. 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:12.800 So you must have felt like you. 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.480 Made some difference. You stay there for ten years, you're 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.080 even very stupid, or you were getting something from the job. 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:21.600 Time went really quick, and you think you'll know this 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:23.879 when you're in the job. Time goes really quick, and 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.320 before you know it's ten years, twenty years. I had 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.920 a lot of good times with my partner, who was 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.560 also aboriginal as well. So if you can imagine two 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.480 black fellows with deadly sense of humors, well, we just 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:37.800 laughed our way through the shifts and it made the 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:42.840 shifts go quicker. Yeah, so I did have, you know, 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.240 a few good times and have good laughs. After leaving 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.840 him and then going sounds like I was in a 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:52.040 relationship with him, but it. 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.359 Felt like it, right, you can tell us, no, I 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.160 wasn't oka. He was happily married, yeah, okay. 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.520 And yeah, and I used to go out socially with 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.080 him and his wife would pick us up, if not 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.440 his wife. It was the blue light tax here. 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.959 Yeah, okay, spoken about that. I don't think people are 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:12.640 going to get shocked of that, especially in the country town. 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.360 Or yeah, need a left time. 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:19.880 Yeah, yeah, so I did have a few good times, 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:24.160 but the bad times outweighed bad times. 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:30.439 And yeah, so you started fresh faced, going to make 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.000 a difference ten years when you walked out, did you 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.399 feel like you made any difference? Was there anything that 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:38.960 yeah made it worthwhile? 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.080 No? Okay, my presence in the police did not make 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:47.160 any impact to my community, to anyone. Really, I don't 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:51.600 think anyone learned anything from me. In fact, I was 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:55.639 told by what someone in tactical crime that you hated 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:59.399 Aboriginal people and you hated women. Yeah, women should have 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:01.320 been a job and hence we didn't really have a 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:03.200 good contract. 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:04.879 Where did you take the conversation from that? 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:08.480 Who cares? I hate you too? Yeah? 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:09.600 Okay, good response. 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.879 Yeah, like it's just water off for ducks back. But 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:15.919 but then I take it home, you know, like what 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:17.760 going home crying? 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.400 Yeah? You know what about the we talk the justice 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.080 system that you don't even like the term the justice system, 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.439 but I talk courts and how confronting it is for 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:29.879 an Aboriginal person to be put before the courts, because 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:35.679 I've seen it in various forms. It's something that's courts 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.879 intimidating for anyone. For Aboriginal people, the way they look 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:40.919 at courts, what what's the feeling there? You would have 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.520 seen it terrifying. Yeah, especially like. 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.479 I think I wrote in Black and Blue that you know, 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:52.720 these young ones that were running away and leeing, and 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.000 you know I was in me and other place, were 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:59.840 in foot pursuits with them, and vehicle pursuits for I 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.800 do the same as well, you know, because the safeties 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:07.040 can compromise. You know, if you're looking at a hefty sentence. 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:09.800 You know, if one more you're on parole already you're 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.440 on bail and you're you're fucked up, and you know, 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:14.080