Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About Mastella Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and this year I have
Speaker 1: had the privilege of sitting down with some of the
Speaker 1: biggest names in the country. Because when Estralia's celebrities are
Speaker 1: ready to talk, they come to Something to Talk About.
Speaker 1: We're continuing to publish across the summer break and we'll
Speaker 1: be back with a brand new episode on January twelfth.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, each day for the next two weeks,
Speaker 1: we'll be revisiting some of your favorite episodes from the
Speaker 1: past year. And I'm happy to report that there have
Speaker 1: been a lot of popular episodes, but out of the
Speaker 1: fifty we released in twenty twenty four, we've narrowed it
Speaker 1: down to ten conversations to revisit over the summer break.
Speaker 1: Today you'll hear from Pip Edwards and Julie Bishop, and
Speaker 1: unlikely double act who at first glance might not seem
Speaker 1: to have much in common, but together their powerful friendship
Speaker 1: transcends their vastly different lives. So what happened when we
Speaker 1: two of the most talked about women in Australia in
Speaker 1: front of a microphone? Have a listen and find out
Speaker 1: when I say Julie Bishop and Pip Edwards sitting in
Speaker 1: the studio together with me on the cover of Stella today.
Speaker 1: It's a pairing that not everyone would expect. Might think, oh,
Speaker 1: are they working on something together?
Speaker 2: We're always working on something together.
Speaker 3: Something's always cooking, but not the cooking they would expect.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: Well, I stumbled upon this friendship by happy accident. We
Speaker 1: were at an event together last year. It was the
Speaker 1: white shirt campaign, Remember it And how did it first
Speaker 1: come about?
Speaker 2: Well? I knew of Pitt obviously through her p Nation
Speaker 2: brand in the early days of.
Speaker 3: Nation, and obviously I knew of Julie Bishop.
Speaker 2: And then we met at a fashion I think we
Speaker 2: maybe seeing you, but we met at a fashion awards night.
Speaker 2: I was presenting to you the Star Vanguard of Future
Speaker 2: as Australian award to PEE Nation, and I was so
Speaker 2: proud of what Pip had managed to achieve on the
Speaker 2: world stage, because as Foreign Minister, I'd been right into
Speaker 2: fashion diplomacy, promoting Australian fashion, and I was firmly in
Speaker 2: the view that Australian fashion was as good as any
Speaker 2: nation's fashion in the world in our own way, and
Speaker 2: that it should be promoted as other commodities and other
Speaker 2: sectors of the industry were, so to have Pee Nation
Speaker 2: recognized in this way was a big thrill, and we actually.
Speaker 4: Liked to have Julie Bishop champion fashion and be such
Speaker 4: an amazing supporter of the industry and all the brands.
Speaker 2: Like but your pe Nation. The story was just brilliant.
Speaker 2: I remember talking to you that night about I was
Speaker 2: going running the next day and you said straight to
Speaker 2: the hotel. I like, sure, Yeah, that was terrific.
Speaker 3: But then there's been.
Speaker 4: Numerous events like we always see each other on the
Speaker 4: circuit and always have fashion shows, but it's always all side,
Speaker 4: honest cut through conversations.
Speaker 2: Yeah we're not We're not talking about the fashion or
Speaker 2: the event. We're talking about reasonal things. I'm collecting with
Speaker 2: you know, what are you up to? What's happening? And
Speaker 2: we have experienced some you know, some odd moments that
Speaker 2: have become public in our lives, and we've got a
Speaker 2: lot to share, a lot to.
Speaker 3: Talk about, a lot to support and connect on.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I admire everything you do from from a work perspective,
Speaker 2: but I really respect Pip as a girlfriend and I
Speaker 2: can tell you anything I have no, that's you know what, and.
Speaker 3: That's actually the thing, and I think you'll see.
Speaker 4: I think that's the energy that people pick actually picked
Speaker 4: up on today on set was like the freedom to
Speaker 4: flow and the freedom to talk without having to watch
Speaker 4: your words or something or what's the agenda.
Speaker 3: And that's really rare in our.
Speaker 4: Positions and our industry because we are two women that
Speaker 4: do get exposed and we are up for scrutiny and
Speaker 4: judgment or you know, admiration, whatever it is. And you've
Speaker 4: you've been we've been burnt before and all these things,
Speaker 4: so there's always a bit of a guard.
Speaker 3: Never ever, ever, ever.
Speaker 2: Likewise likewise, immediately go girlfriend.
Speaker 1: For each of you individually, do you feel like you've
Speaker 1: made a lot of friends in your respective life since
Speaker 1: you both became public figures. Obviously you've had very different careers,
Speaker 1: very different timelines. But is that hard to discover people
Speaker 1: if you like, because obviously everyone has people that have
Speaker 1: been in there.
Speaker 2: You're talking to a politician. If you want to find
Speaker 2: a friend in politics by a dog, There's that, there's
Speaker 2: that side of it. But this is a friendship outside
Speaker 2: my career, as this is passion for me. I mean,
Speaker 2: fashion is a passion. It's a way of life for
Speaker 2: pit obviously, but I have the same passion. I absolutely
Speaker 2: identify with her love of fashion and style and love
Speaker 2: what she's doing. So yeah, we were obviously always going.
Speaker 4: But I think friendships friendships, but it's not Yeah, it's
Speaker 4: since being a bit more public. There are friendships in
Speaker 4: the industry, and you know why, and yours too, because
Speaker 4: you know it's been I've spent like nearly twenty five
Speaker 4: years in the industry, so of course you kind of
Speaker 4: grow up together with people through the industry. So there
Speaker 4: are friendships, but this one's a bit different because it's
Speaker 4: just there's.
Speaker 3: No yeah, there's no consition.
Speaker 4: No, there's an absolute like the it's relatable, it's vulnerable.
Speaker 2: You make me love, honest, to make me love.
Speaker 4: And she can whisper things that are under her breath
Speaker 4: that she basically whispers what I'm thinking, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean. And I think that's why happened on set today.
Speaker 4: There were some whispers going on there.
Speaker 2: And they kept saying would you just.
Speaker 3: And everyone was just like, we wish we had a
Speaker 3: mic on them.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask a question for each of you separately.
Speaker 1: As you said you both, of course, knew of each other,
Speaker 1: and then you met and you had those first impressions,
Speaker 1: and then a very genuine friendship was born. But what
Speaker 1: will your observations, Piper might ask you first of the
Speaker 1: Jewelie bishop that you knew as Foreign Minister, deputy leader
Speaker 1: of the Liberal Party.
Speaker 4: You can't even fathom that as a woman, that it's
Speaker 4: so iconic and just reputable. And I was actually in
Speaker 4: shock that I was in shock that she would even
Speaker 4: talk to me in that sense, because I sometimes think
Speaker 4: the fashion industry can be seen as a bit glamorous
Speaker 4: or a bit fickle in a way. Sometimes, you know,
Speaker 4: and there's this woman that's on the world stage, representing
Speaker 4: the country and talking with like serious serious business, and
Speaker 4: she is just slightly gushing about fashion, and I just
Speaker 4: was blown away. And that's the humbleness that I see.
Speaker 1: And then as you've come to know her so well,
Speaker 1: become so close and such good friends, and as you've
Speaker 1: talked about that trust, which is so rare to find
Speaker 1: and such a quality in someone that everyone listening to
Speaker 1: this knows what that's like. When you find somebody that
Speaker 1: you trust innately. I mean, there is no value on that.
Speaker 4: Well, it just cuts the ball to it and it's
Speaker 4: like we launched straight into the chat. There's no there's
Speaker 4: we don't have to do the fluff niceties.
Speaker 3: Like it's just like what's going on here?
Speaker 2: You know, I cut to the chair. I love it.
Speaker 3: It's like that's just how it is.
Speaker 2: Well, when I met Pip, she exemplified everything that I'd
Speaker 2: been talking about and promoting in terms of Australian fashion.
Speaker 2: She was creative, she was innovative, she was a risk
Speaker 2: taker and a very independent and proud woman who took
Speaker 2: no prisoners. She I just really admired her and loved
Speaker 2: her style and her dynamism and exuded that night. Do
Speaker 2: you remember being up on stage and she was just
Speaker 2: so much fun.
Speaker 3: But that's the other thing. She's so much fun, So
Speaker 3: for a part so serious, it was such a.
Speaker 4: Serious game with serious leaders, Like you know, next minute
Speaker 4: she's like, oh, when when I was with the Queen
Speaker 4: and then when I was with and she's talking about
Speaker 4: crazy president and then she's like hanging out like whatever.
Speaker 4: She drops these names and it's not like dropping them
Speaker 4: like they're literally the people.
Speaker 2: She is around, And I thinking like.
Speaker 4: But you're not name dropping because that's your world and
Speaker 4: then you, you know, talking a little on me and
Speaker 4: but having a laugh.
Speaker 2: No, but like that's Yeah.
Speaker 1: Did that sense of humor come as a surprise, Yeah
Speaker 1: to you, Yes, what else came as a surprise.
Speaker 2: I just told you I was hilarious.
Speaker 4: Note wasn't on the rawness.
Speaker 3: But also it's just the human side. There's a huge
Speaker 3: and this is it.
Speaker 4: Like, there's a human side to us and being whatever human,
Speaker 4: what women go through, that's normal to all women, that resonates,
Speaker 4: that's powerful, that's.
Speaker 3: In a way more powerful than what we do.
Speaker 2: Do you agree with that? What about for you?
Speaker 1: What surprised you when you got to know Pip?
Speaker 2: Oh? Wow, exactly. So this episode's in ten.
Speaker 3: Parts to be continued.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I was just so impressed by her
Speaker 2: creative mind and she comes from a corporate background. That
Speaker 2: surprised me because I always thought you'd been in fashion.
Speaker 2: I thought your story was always fashion. But actually she
Speaker 2: was going to be a finance banking legal type and
Speaker 2: would have been a very different woman, and we would
Speaker 2: have had a very different.
Speaker 3: Way, would have had a very different conversation, had a.
Speaker 2: Very different conversation. But she'd had such a long time
Speaker 2: in the fashion industry and then branched out into p Nation,
Speaker 2: which was an enormous risk. That's such an incredible success story.
Speaker 2: And Pip's always come across as somebody so zen, so relaxed,
Speaker 2: so kind of out there. Yet she is dearly has
Speaker 2: to be to achieve.
Speaker 3: Like I say, I want to talk over you. Sorry,
Speaker 3: but I will, but.
Speaker 4: Next no, but not many women really fiercely look at
Speaker 4: other women in that way or what they do. And
Speaker 4: to have a woman like Julie Bishop recognize or acknowledge
Speaker 4: and like uplift.
Speaker 3: I like, you know, it's you could cry about it
Speaker 3: because I can tell you now it's.
Speaker 4: About the wild It's the wild West out there, you know,
Speaker 4: it's the wild West.
Speaker 2: Pip's resilience and that became apparent to me over the years.
Speaker 2: That was an apparent that night. But you know, when
Speaker 2: I was talking about your achievements, I was so proud
Speaker 2: of you as to what you'd achieved. But over time
Speaker 2: we've got to know each other, the vulnerabilities, the soft side.
Speaker 2: Perhaps the first we've been overseas together, we were in London,
Speaker 2: had a great time in London. When you when you're traveling,
Speaker 2: that's different.
Speaker 4: I mean, I was so lucky to go when we
Speaker 4: were in London at the same time and I was
Speaker 4: able to be her plus one.
Speaker 2: To the Design were the Design Museum, Jean Sherman had
Speaker 2: this amazing conference on design, architecture, fashion and I was
Speaker 2: over there speaking on the politics of fashion, and my
Speaker 2: plus one came with me to an evening.
Speaker 3: Actually what are we wearing and how's this?
Speaker 2: So we walk we walk into this event at the
Speaker 2: Design Museum in London and everybody who's anybody in fashion,
Speaker 2: design architecture in London is there.
Speaker 3: There was no way I was getting an invite to that. No, no,
Speaker 3: no way.
Speaker 2: So I dragged my girlfriend. Anyway, I walk in and
Speaker 2: immediately this woman walks up and goes, oh my god,
Speaker 2: it's pipe in Australia. And I'm standing there go yeah,
Speaker 2: she's with me. But the woman, I was so proud
Speaker 2: of you. Yeah that's my girl.
Speaker 3: This is it right, but this is it and it's
Speaker 3: always like it's just But.
Speaker 2: You know, another thing about that night, I mean it
Speaker 2: was at a time when I don't think you were
Speaker 2: getting due recognition in Australia at that moment. You were
Speaker 2: getting it overseas, and I thought isn't that typical An
Speaker 2: Australian woman comes overseas and she silences the room because
Speaker 2: they were going, oh my god, Peter Edwards is here,
Speaker 2: and at that moment in Australia, there were some negative
Speaker 2: vibes in your life. So I'm really glad that we
Speaker 2: caught up in London. It was fantastic. I've got very
Speaker 2: cute pictures of us, of us.
Speaker 3: Julie's an amazing woman.
Speaker 1: Talks a little bit about some of those shared values
Speaker 1: and interest that I suppose spark the friendship. There's no
Speaker 1: formula to friendship, but I've been thinking about it a lot.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I think everyone does for friendship, but
Speaker 1: also ahead of this conversation, and sometimes it's finding those
Speaker 1: things that you have in common and then also discovering
Speaker 1: the differences and how those differences then might shape one
Speaker 1: another over time.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm going to say that what I've discovered is
Speaker 4: that we have very similar scenarios that go on behind
Speaker 4: the scenes, and we.
Speaker 2: There's almost a rhythm to it.
Speaker 3: We're actually could that work quite parallel.
Speaker 2: We obviously have aligned interests. I mean, we love fashion,
Speaker 2: We're interested in fitness. You're good at it, I love
Speaker 2: it run I can't run. So you know, we've got
Speaker 2: interest in fitness, fashion, current affairs, what's happening.
Speaker 3: You know, all of that keeps me current in politics.
Speaker 2: When I'm saying, what label is that you don't know
Speaker 2: that we label?
Speaker 3: Yes? I do, yes, I do not know what charkamas is.
Speaker 4: And then she's like, then she's telling me something that
Speaker 4: someone's just been appointed as something, And I'm like, what.
Speaker 2: So reinforcing our content?
Speaker 1: Have you become a bit more interested Pip in politics,
Speaker 1: world events?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: Be I do?
Speaker 3: I just think them.
Speaker 4: Well, I just think I'm in such a bubble. And
Speaker 4: it's not like, you know, intentional, just I'm in this bubble.
Speaker 4: Like even today She's like so and and I'm like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, I need to remember that the world
Speaker 4: is actually bigger than the bubble.
Speaker 2: What I love about Pip's life and her work is
Speaker 2: her marketing and branding intuition. She's good. And when I'm
Speaker 2: running around in my pe nation, I think I wonder
Speaker 2: what she's going to wear, you know, what she's going
Speaker 2: to be designing next year, Because you're always ahead of
Speaker 2: the curve. And we talk about that in the fashion sense,
Speaker 2: but that's also manifested so many other ways. Pip's always
Speaker 2: thinking over the horizon in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: But this challenging the other thing as well.
Speaker 4: Oh god, were just this is just a big love
Speaker 4: in sessioning.
Speaker 3: Okay, what's amazing.
Speaker 4: I think where the synchronicity and synergy is that we
Speaker 4: we where our mind our mindsets are the same, and
Speaker 4: we operate the same, so we can actually multitup. We're
Speaker 4: always we can be in a room or we can
Speaker 4: be talking, but we know exactly. We just know what's
Speaker 4: going on and we can read the play as well.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, while everyone thinks we're on it, well
Speaker 2: thinks we're all on my phone, we know exactly what's
Speaker 2: going we're on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me ask because a lot of people will
Speaker 1: be listening and wondering about the logistics. You've talked about
Speaker 1: being in London together, meeting at events. How else do
Speaker 1: you interact because obviously you I mean you're based in
Speaker 1: different parts of.
Speaker 4: Things to text message phones like all of it. Text
Speaker 4: messages a lot.
Speaker 2: There will be, but there'll be a text at the
Speaker 2: right time. This is the whole point. I don't have
Speaker 2: to connect with Pip every day. We drive each other crazy.
Speaker 2: But when something's happening, and I know it's happening in
Speaker 2: a life, I'll just send them text to you, okay,
Speaker 2: vibe and that's that's just enough, and you'll come back,
Speaker 2: come back with either a screen four or yeah I'm fine,
Speaker 2: and so check in. It's just to check it. Do
Speaker 2: you remember. But when we caught up after COVID, I
Speaker 2: mean it was hysterical and oh my godness, if I
Speaker 2: I've just seen strangle me though, it's.
Speaker 4: Like it's quite a thing of hers likes to get
Speaker 4: me in.
Speaker 1: A head, very strong actually, so you know that that
Speaker 1: would be a fierce hug.
Speaker 2: I bet on you.
Speaker 1: Do you run or walk together because of this?
Speaker 3: I would.
Speaker 2: She's a pilates, I'm a yogi and a runner, so
Speaker 2: you know I.
Speaker 3: Would never be running with her. Have you seen that run?
Speaker 3: She runs every day? I don't. I don't. Yeah, no,
Speaker 3: no running here.
Speaker 1: So you don't really talk about politics, which is something
Speaker 1: that or do you don't not?
Speaker 2: I mean, if there's something happening, I'll download and we'll
Speaker 2: tell what's going through my mind and how crazy is this?
Speaker 2: But we talk about lots of things. We talk about
Speaker 2: our lives, what we're doing family work work.
Speaker 1: Yeah again, when I was thinking about the formula of
Speaker 1: a friendship and some of the closest friendships in my life,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you would both agree. I often
Speaker 1: think also that moment where you first have a disagreement
Speaker 1: or maybe maybe not an argument, or there's just something.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why. I think that can be
Speaker 1: an important obstacle or road bump or development in a
Speaker 1: friendship is because then you get over it and so
Speaker 1: you know you've been not not tested might be too
Speaker 1: strong a word for it, but you know that there's Oh, actually, this.
Speaker 2: Cannot imagine us disagreeing, and you.
Speaker 4: Know what, I think we're too there's so much humor.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I think I could I might joke on her
Speaker 4: too far. It might go you know, it could be
Speaker 4: go not no, like you don't want to be too rude.
Speaker 2: I'll remind you of that.
Speaker 4: Yeah no, but I know you know, like you can
Speaker 4: maybe like, well, you don't you don't It was like today,
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: If you don't know everybody's you don't know your vulnerability.
Speaker 2: There might be something that that is a you know,
Speaker 2: a very sore point and you would know it. But
Speaker 2: she never maliciously, and I would never willingly hurt people
Speaker 2: say anything that would hurt her upset her. So I
Speaker 2: just don't see that I heard stop talking. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean as if you're the first person who ever
Speaker 2: say that to me. Everyone told me to stop talking.
Speaker 2: You just joined the queue. I didn't get the stair, though,
Speaker 2: you know, I reserve that for special occasions.
Speaker 1: I've never had that Oh I'm sitting here breaks.
Speaker 2: Oh are you ask the wrong question and you'll get
Speaker 2: the stair? Believe me?
Speaker 3: Well, I want to say it.
Speaker 2: Can you ask the wrong question? You can't turn it
Speaker 2: on and off like that heat seeking missile that you
Speaker 2: turn on for guys. No, no, no, it just happens.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about that competing aspect because
Speaker 1: you did mention that early on. And there is a
Speaker 1: lot of discussion in the wider culture about women being
Speaker 1: pitted against each other. We've all heard countless sometimes women
Speaker 1: but mainly men, say oh, women are their own worst enemies.
Speaker 1: It's been something that I've talked to a lot of
Speaker 1: particularly women in media about on the podcast over the
Speaker 1: last year, who've called BS on it. But of course
Speaker 1: it does happen. So can I ask you individually, Julie,
Speaker 1: do you think we're getting better in how women treat
Speaker 1: each other, how the culture treats female friendship, female peers.
Speaker 1: Because you've often been the only woman in the room
Speaker 1: a lot of the time, and so you're obviously cast
Speaker 1: against a lot of other women, do you think it's
Speaker 1: getting better? And obviously it's a really cool pillar of
Speaker 1: your friendship. Is it something that you're seeing replicated in
Speaker 1: other relationships associations in your life.
Speaker 2: I believe we have a long way to go. Society
Speaker 2: has a long way to go. Of course, my political
Speaker 2: career was in very much a male dominated scenario environment.
Speaker 2: But whenever I did come up against another woman, it
Speaker 2: would be labeled as a cat fight.
Speaker 3: A cat fight.
Speaker 2: So if I were having a debate with a man,
Speaker 2: that'd say, oh, she's screeching, But as soon as two
Speaker 2: women were having a debate, it would be labeled a catfight.
Speaker 2: And I found that really disappointing. I don't think that's
Speaker 2: changed much. I also think that women's friendships are misunderstood,
Speaker 2: although I do love some of the some of the
Speaker 2: stories that have been coming up recently, you know, people
Speaker 2: like Jane Fonda saying it doesn't matter about all the
Speaker 2: men in her life. It's the women that count. It's
Speaker 2: her girlfriend's that count, and so there's perhaps a deep appreciation.
Speaker 4: I think there's a content, maybe more of a consciousness
Speaker 4: of that of caring more. But I do think the
Speaker 4: landscape is still you know, sometimes you know, you want
Speaker 4: the general vibe I fulfill sometimes is like everyone wants
Speaker 4: you to do well, but maybe not better than them,
Speaker 4: do you know?
Speaker 2: That's like, so.
Speaker 1: That's scarcity of mindsettled.
Speaker 3: Little yeah that wants you to everyone that. Yeah. I
Speaker 3: don't know how to explain that.
Speaker 2: It's Australian talk, poppy thing.
Speaker 3: Yes it's.
Speaker 2: Well, but you know, don't but don't go too far
Speaker 2: and be too good, and don't start believing in your
Speaker 2: own publicity, you know, anything like that. You're okay, but
Speaker 2: you're not fabulous, which is.
Speaker 1: Why it's clearly been so refreshing for the too.
Speaker 3: They're just.
Speaker 4: Have someone to hold the flag continually and do that.
Speaker 4: It's it's priceless and you know, and it's needed. She
Speaker 4: doesn't know how much how much she needed.
Speaker 2: But I think women are pitted against each other too
Speaker 2: often and they should just rise above it because at
Speaker 2: the end of the day. If another woman is not
Speaker 2: going to back you, who is you really think that
Speaker 2: you can rely on others. And I think girlfriends are
Speaker 2: so important for that reinforcing of your ability, your competence.
Speaker 2: You need somebody to reinforce it, and sure you find
Speaker 2: the right men to do it. But it's lovely hearing
Speaker 2: it from a girlfriend, isn't it. Women? Women need to
Speaker 2: be able to trust each other. So you know, they
Speaker 2: talk about the sisterhood. The sisterhood can be you know.
Speaker 4: What I'll say to trust though, it comes from really
Speaker 4: as a woman, knowing who you are. And I think
Speaker 4: Julie and I we know exactly who we are, so
Speaker 4: that's why we.
Speaker 1: Have that.
Speaker 2: We know nobody needs to tell me.
Speaker 4: So that's why there's no fear or there's none of this,
Speaker 4: there's none of that noise because I know exactly who
Speaker 4: I am.
Speaker 3: She knows exactly. I don't want to be her. She
Speaker 3: doesn't want to be me.
Speaker 2: I want to be I want to be you. Do
Speaker 2: you want I want? I definitely don't want to.
Speaker 4: I want to, yeah, But that's I think it's it's
Speaker 4: really when you get to a point of having that
Speaker 4: just the knowing of yourself and my bit more of
Speaker 4: self love that you can actually start to have real,
Speaker 4: real friendships.
Speaker 1: And when we come back, we'll speak with Pip and
Speaker 1: Julie about how they support each other through tough times,
Speaker 1: particularly when those tough times are splashed across the headlines.
Speaker 1: One of the shared experiences you have, which is very unique,
Speaker 1: is that you are both very high profile, and you
Speaker 1: know that there are people that are making assumptions about
Speaker 1: each of you. But then, as Julia you alluded to earlier,
Speaker 1: if Pitt was going through something difficult and you know
Speaker 1: that there's some I think you said, negativity coming to her,
Speaker 1: and obviously everyone on the public stage and in public love, well,
Speaker 1: everyone goes through that. But obviously everyone in public life
Speaker 1: has those moments knowing and having that shorthand between you,
Speaker 1: that thinking, God, something's happened here and everyone's got an opinion.
Speaker 2: I relate to the pressure that is sometimes applied to
Speaker 2: as a public figure. I understand it. I relate to it.
Speaker 2: I don't accept it because often it's unfair. Often it's
Speaker 2: completely erroneous some of the assumptions that are made. But
Speaker 2: I can relate to the pressure that she can be under.
Speaker 2: But I'm also very confident that she knows how to
Speaker 2: deal with it and is increasingly able to do so.
Speaker 2: In fact, there more pressure you're under, the better you perform.
Speaker 2: So often, and I remember there was a I don't know,
Speaker 2: a response that you put out at one stage to something.
Speaker 2: I thought, oh, you genius, that's perfect. You're really showing
Speaker 2: your strength. I was very proud of you. So I
Speaker 2: don't want to overstate it. But you know, we've both
Speaker 2: been through stages where the public spotlight is honest fairly
Speaker 2: or unfairly, and you feel I think.
Speaker 4: They forget, they forget that we're actually living.
Speaker 3: I just keep coming back to being human.
Speaker 2: You say, hello, I'm here.
Speaker 3: Actually I'm actually a mother.
Speaker 4: Sorry, I'm actually a mother that has has an adult
Speaker 4: pretty bunch, an adult child that is witnessing all of
Speaker 4: this crazy you know, this crazy path the wild West.
Speaker 4: I'll just keep calling it the wild West. And then,
Speaker 4: second of all, i'm a businesswoman. Third of all, i'm
Speaker 4: a daughter. Fourth of all, I'm a friend. And they're
Speaker 4: all human aspects. And then and then and then I'm
Speaker 4: Pip Edwards. So I just that's my reminder to people today.
Speaker 1: And does that support? Does that ever come then in
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, sometimes it might be just like thinking
Speaker 1: of you or settled. Does it ever come in the
Speaker 1: form of any more practical sport? I mean, I might
Speaker 1: get the stare here, Julie, but when you're talking about
Speaker 1: amazing comeback, I mean, I'm going to assume that that
Speaker 1: was about Newsagate last year, which was a massive story
Speaker 1: a year ago. And obviously Pitt found her self in
Speaker 1: what was the middle of the biggest story in the
Speaker 1: country at the time. And I would imagine, as a
Speaker 1: friend and someone that knows and loves her, you're thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's not an easy situation.
Speaker 2: And then I think I was overseas and I sent
Speaker 2: a text saying I'm here here, babe. But I knew
Speaker 2: she was fine. I knew she was going to be
Speaker 2: strong and able to deal with this kind of thing.
Speaker 2: But the level of public scrutiny, I mean, the biggest
Speaker 2: story in Australia, please it was. I mean's just put
Speaker 2: it in context, people, and that's that can know that
Speaker 2: I'm waiting for that continues to astound me. It really
Speaker 2: does that that people's personal, private lives can make front
Speaker 2: page and even end up on the news. I mean,
Speaker 2: I just I just find that astounding. After twenty five
Speaker 2: years in the public eye as a politician and beyond,
Speaker 2: I am still astounded by what is deemed news.
Speaker 1: Pitt, What do you think about that? Because you made
Speaker 1: some quote great quotes recently where you were talking about
Speaker 1: how really to what Juliu was saying. You know, twenty
Speaker 1: five years in a career and you're still sometimes being
Speaker 1: defined in some sections of the media by the men
Speaker 1: that you've dated. It must infuriate you. And I assume
Speaker 1: also like.
Speaker 2: She should be defined as one of the most successful
Speaker 2: business women in Australia. That's what should define Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't mean define in the sense, but if we're
Speaker 2: talking about an achievement, let's talk about.
Speaker 4: My achievement and my achievement as a single mother, raised
Speaker 4: a child, run a business. Yeah, stood on my own
Speaker 4: two fees, Like they're things to talk about. And that's
Speaker 4: what Julie talks about. And that's what our friendship's based about,
Speaker 4: you know, and that's what takes it away, that's what
Speaker 4: gives the relief from that here, and it's coming from
Speaker 4: a woman that is so I mean, like that is
Speaker 4: why this is so, this is so important for me.
Speaker 1: So Pip, can I put the same question to you
Speaker 1: then too, because obviously Julie's also found herself in the
Speaker 1: headlines because of a relationship breakdown. I've seen Julie trying
Speaker 1: to discuss big events of politics, and everyone's asking about that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a journalist. I'm not giving out.
Speaker 1: About other journalists obviously and part of the industry, but
Speaker 1: I also acknowledge that it's a very rarefied difficult experience
Speaker 1: for people that are in the middle of that.
Speaker 3: And here in lies our friendship. That's what I'm going to.
Speaker 2: Say, and how she responds and how I respond we
Speaker 2: relate to that.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you a little bit about chapters
Speaker 1: of your life and if you've had different people in
Speaker 1: your life in different seasons. So you know, I think
Speaker 1: again the path of friendship. There might be times where
Speaker 1: somebody moves away and that friendship is changed. It could
Speaker 1: be that somebody gets into a relationship and we've all
Speaker 1: had that friend you know, I never really see them
Speaker 1: again until maybe it breaks up and I'll call you again.
Speaker 1: And then, of course, Pip, you mentioned earlier first and
Speaker 1: foremost your mother, your son Justice, who's seventeen, I believe,
Speaker 1: and that can also be something that can be a
Speaker 1: roadblock in a lot of female friendships. And I think
Speaker 1: that can be because one person has a child and
Speaker 1: another person doesn't, and one of those people might feel, well,
Speaker 1: this friendship, you know, I'm sick of hearing about that,
Speaker 1: or I just think our lives have gone in different directions. Sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, it might be someone's got younger children and
Speaker 1: you know, the friends got older children along. I'm kind
Speaker 1: of through that period of my life. It is still
Speaker 1: a little bit I find that women are sometimes pitted
Speaker 1: against each other with oh, you have children, you don't
Speaker 1: have children. It's something that I feel really strongly about
Speaker 1: calling out. You both probably know we have a policy
Speaker 1: at Stella where we don't ask women who we interview
Speaker 1: you ever planning to have children or if you have children,
Speaker 1: are you going to have more? Because I just hate
Speaker 1: that whole narrative of defining any woman, whatever her choices
Speaker 1: or not her choices. By the way, which is obviously
Speaker 1: something you've also talked about with fertility challenges. Can I
Speaker 1: ask about that for this friendship? Has it ever been
Speaker 1: a dynamic?
Speaker 2: Not at all. I'm a lot older than and yet yeah,
Speaker 2: well you think I got these lines through lack of sleep.
Speaker 2: It's age, baby, I'm older than Pitt. But that's never
Speaker 2: been an issue ever. We've never connected like we've never
Speaker 2: disconnected because of courage or because of your personal circumstances
Speaker 2: or mine. I've never it's actual viewed my life through
Speaker 2: the prism of having children or not having children. It's
Speaker 2: never been a thing for me. My girlfriends have children
Speaker 2: or don't have children. It's not a defining issue for me.
Speaker 2: Never has been. And so you know, I admire everything
Speaker 2: Pitt does in raising justice and having a son and
Speaker 2: doing what she does and running a business, and you know,
Speaker 2: I get all of that. But between us, no, it's
Speaker 2: not an issue. It's not something that I've ever felt
Speaker 2: any sense of tension in the least.
Speaker 4: Again, I mean, that's the thing that all those parts,
Speaker 4: you know, like I said, I'm a mother, but there's
Speaker 4: Plethod's a number of things that define you.
Speaker 3: And then but at the end of the day, I'm
Speaker 3: me and that's.
Speaker 2: What and I like her. So I don't have all
Speaker 2: the parts. I don't have to compartmentalize it.
Speaker 3: All just's and that's that exactly.
Speaker 2: It's all, just the whole. That's who she is. This
Speaker 2: is who I am.
Speaker 1: Pip. You went public in Stella March of last year.
Speaker 1: Going back to the white shirt campaign. We were talking
Speaker 1: about where, which is where you first spoke about the
Speaker 1: fact that you had been experiencing early menopause. Was a
Speaker 1: massive story, headlines everywhere. I know a lot of other
Speaker 1: media routelets have spoken to about it in the almost
Speaker 1: year since then. Were you surprised by that reaction?
Speaker 3: Wasn't. I wasn't. I was in that it did get
Speaker 3: like there was a lot of it.
Speaker 4: I didn't realize actually what I was saying and how
Speaker 4: powerful it was for other women. And I've had so
Speaker 4: many women say to me, thank you that you're you
Speaker 4: were able to be so vulnerable about it, and that
Speaker 4: made me really sad.
Speaker 3: But that made me.
Speaker 4: Really sad it's really raw, but that it's really sad
Speaker 4: that women aren't talking about these things. So I was like, no,
Speaker 4: it does need to be talked about. And I think
Speaker 4: I'm really happy that I was able to tell the
Speaker 4: truth rather than I was hiding behind trying to keep
Speaker 4: it together in all fronts when actually I haven't slept.
Speaker 3: I'm sweating my ass off.
Speaker 2: It's like I'm you're unleashed. It's such a national conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's amazing.
Speaker 4: No, and there's there's more conversation to that too. You
Speaker 4: know everywhere it's it's it's still yeah. Why is it
Speaker 4: still taboo?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: And it's always taboo until somebody breaks the Yeah, Julie,
Speaker 1: you have obviously been an advocate of a wide range
Speaker 1: of issues, I mean too many to even talk about here,
Speaker 1: including those women's health. Because also a supporter of the
Speaker 1: white Shirt campaign of course your well, this is an observation.
Speaker 1: Your way of talking about issues is probably more in
Speaker 1: keeping with your background as a lawyer foreign minister.
Speaker 2: Probably more through a policy sense. When I became connected
Speaker 2: to the Overian Cancer Research Foundation, it was very much
Speaker 2: about the policy responses of government or lack thereof, in
Speaker 2: relation to support for Iverian cancer. So I was probably
Speaker 2: approached to be more of an advocate for more funding
Speaker 2: for research through governments. But in actual fact it triggered
Speaker 2: something in me because my two older sisters had both
Speaker 2: when they were much younger, way younger, had both had
Speaker 2: issues with what we thought was OVERI in cancer. They
Speaker 2: both had ovarian tumors at different times in their life,
Speaker 2: but it was very, very coincidental that they both had
Speaker 2: an ovarian tumor that had to be removed. Was no
Speaker 2: varian cancer, so I had this sense of connection with it. Thankfully,
Speaker 2: I've not had any ovarian tumors or cancer, but there
Speaker 2: was just a sense that there are people very close
Speaker 2: to me that could have been in this situation. It
Speaker 2: was so close, and so I embraced it from a
Speaker 2: personal perspective as much as a political policy perspective. And
Speaker 2: that's why I'm still there and why you know, when
Speaker 2: fabulous people like Pep do the white shirt again, Yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll do it again. I'm more than happy to give
Speaker 2: my time and energy to those sorts of those sorts
Speaker 2: of causes. And women's health is so important. We are
Speaker 2: a lot better at talking about it and supporting it
Speaker 2: and researching it. But as Pip says, there are still
Speaker 2: some taboo subjects and no go areas, and women should
Speaker 2: feel the freedom to talk about what's actually happening to them.
Speaker 4: It's more a trajectory talking to them at a younger
Speaker 4: age about the trajectory of your future.
Speaker 1: And that's part of what you spoke at the time,
Speaker 1: which was that there were just things that you didn't
Speaker 1: think about, like.
Speaker 4: Not in your twenties, Like that's the education that she'd
Speaker 4: happened in your twenties, about what's going to happen in
Speaker 4: your thirties, what's going to happen in your forties?
Speaker 2: Mind you at that age, I'd look at I'd look
Speaker 2: at a woman my age.
Speaker 3: God is she still put a patch on every couple
Speaker 3: of hours? Like what are you doing?
Speaker 2: Mad about it?
Speaker 4: But she didn't talk about it. Yeah, I watched her
Speaker 4: do it. That's right, I watched her do it. She
Speaker 4: did not tell me.
Speaker 1: You didn't know about selling like I.
Speaker 3: Knew it was like a patch for something.
Speaker 1: You had no reference point when you got that mind,
Speaker 1: you would be very fearful if we were told everything
Speaker 1: in advance.
Speaker 2: I do I really need? Do I to look forward to? That? Like?
Speaker 3: Too much information?
Speaker 1: Well, and Julie, you were also on the cover of
Speaker 1: Stella last year and broke the internet at the Oh
Speaker 1: do you remember no pads in heart yet?
Speaker 2: Correct about that today, because I mean ridiculous. It was
Speaker 2: a it was it was a laser, it was a
Speaker 2: long jacket.
Speaker 3: But also it's a trend and it was a style.
Speaker 3: I mean aig.
Speaker 2: It's a kind of Jenna was wearing it on the
Speaker 2: red pipet, except it was a sea through one.
Speaker 4: I've got pins like jewel stop it.
Speaker 2: But it was it was funny, wasn't it made me
Speaker 2: last years? It's funny how you can put things in
Speaker 2: perspective these days. Years and years ago, there were certain
Speaker 2: things that the media would say or do, and it
Speaker 2: would I would take it so personally I would be
Speaker 2: so upset. Now I laugh, I really do. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: Julie Bishop shocks by wearing a blazer with no pants,
Speaker 2: come on over and we're worry about where my pants are.
Speaker 1: It was it was really you have to laugh.
Speaker 2: I know it is funny.
Speaker 1: Well, it's easy for me to say it was funny.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you also feel a big sense of
Speaker 1: responsibil But it's interesting because I think sometimes people assume
Speaker 1: that this narrative doesn't happen anymore. You know, we can
Speaker 1: wear whatever they like and we don't have that. It's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not in the world that you try publishing.
Speaker 2: It's when you take a risk that people aren't expecting,
Speaker 2: don't know about it because I did a similar thing
Speaker 2: at Derby Day where I wore a very translucent skirt
Speaker 2: and I was told I was wearing no pants, and
Speaker 2: I was like, pretty sure, mew mew, mew mew.
Speaker 3: But such everyone sends underwear down the runway like it's
Speaker 3: a look. But to the masses, then then probably haven't
Speaker 3: caught up on the trend.
Speaker 2: That's exactly people.
Speaker 4: So I figure it's an education, right, that's educated absolutely well.
Speaker 1: I mean, we clearly love a cover at Stellar where
Speaker 1: people aren't wearing pants. You are both wearing pants on
Speaker 1: the cover of.
Speaker 3: Can confirm we're wearing pants.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you a little bit about doing the
Speaker 1: cover together.
Speaker 2: How was it? It was different. I haven't done a
Speaker 2: double act like this before, and I've had photos taken
Speaker 2: with one other person from time to diamond, two of
Speaker 2: us doing it was an interesting dynamic. As soon as
Speaker 2: it felt right, I knew it was right, you know,
Speaker 2: like when we were sort of that was saying, now
Speaker 2: stand back to back. So we're standing back to back
Speaker 2: and I'm saying your bum's higher than mine, that's not fair,
Speaker 2: and all.
Speaker 3: This very we're very arranging, very aware.
Speaker 2: We're rearranging ourselves, and so it was, yes, we've both
Speaker 2: done a lot of photo shoots, but doing one together
Speaker 2: brings in a completely different dynamic, doesn't it because suddenly
Speaker 2: looking at two bodies.
Speaker 4: But sometimes you can be a bit you know, house
Speaker 4: it is going to look it's actually when you just yeah.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I think that's what the photos convey. It's
Speaker 1: just like there's a really relaxed diamic energy.
Speaker 2: Well, we were talking all the way through. That's the
Speaker 2: other thing. When you're standing there up on a shoot
Speaker 2: on your own, you're generally not talking to yourself, but
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just actually it went like that.
Speaker 2: It was actually talking all the time, going to each
Speaker 2: other's shoot. Yeah, that's an idea.
Speaker 1: What do you think the reaction will be? Will people
Speaker 1: be surprised to know about this strange erpoment? I imagine
Speaker 1: that they will.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think initially they might be like what.
Speaker 3: But I think if you know or feel or see
Speaker 3: or hear, you get it. Yeah, you know, I think
Speaker 3: it'll be like, oh, it makes sense.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of sense there, we understand it,
Speaker 2: just because nobody else. No, I think a lot of
Speaker 2: women out there will be there. Yeah, I've got a
Speaker 2: girlfriend like that. I do have a friend like that,
Speaker 2: and I should, I should trust value that friendship.
Speaker 4: I hope it inspires other women in influence to support
Speaker 4: to support other women of influence.
Speaker 2: And you know, love each other and show that you
Speaker 2: can be supportive and it doesn't matter where what you do. Sure,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: We'll take a break now and when we come back,
Speaker 1: we'll find out what's next for Pip and Julie. I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you both about the biggest changes that
Speaker 1: you've maybe observed in one another's life. So have you seen,
Speaker 1: you know, career changes and how that's impacted the person
Speaker 1: thought that more relaxed or well, whatever it is.
Speaker 4: I think I think it's great that Julie's I mean,
Speaker 4: it's funny.
Speaker 3: I think it's great that well, I want to.
Speaker 4: Say, I wish you were back there. Sorry, I mean
Speaker 4: that's what I want to say.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's out of line.
Speaker 4: I think Julie is one of the most fabulous women
Speaker 4: and we need her so.
Speaker 2: I mean, sorry, I'm in my food career. You know.
Speaker 3: She's done. She's done. Sorry.
Speaker 2: My observations of Pip is she's so much more grounded.
Speaker 2: The more successful her business is, the more confident and
Speaker 2: grounded she appears. And I don't think anything could phase
Speaker 2: you now, whereas a few years ago you were you
Speaker 2: were sure you were getting there, but there were some
Speaker 2: things that could knock you off course. Not now. I
Speaker 2: think you're exceedingly grounded and self confident, which is a
Speaker 2: very attractive quality in a woman.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you again, both of you, how
Speaker 1: do you think is a way that the other has
Speaker 1: changed you? So, Pip is there's something about your friendship
Speaker 1: with Julie that you can see. There might be a
Speaker 1: few different things, but you can see. Yes, I think
Speaker 1: knowing Julie, I think my friendship has has created that change.
Speaker 4: It validates a lot of some of the you know,
Speaker 4: tiger war in my head about things that I can't understand.
Speaker 3: She validates me, She validates me, and I'm like, I've
Speaker 3: got I've got this. I can you know, like right
Speaker 3: the storm, Yeah right? And in fact drive it.
Speaker 2: That resilience he talked about Julie, Yeah, it's powerful and
Speaker 2: I really admire it.
Speaker 3: And that's the thing, you know, for me, it's just.
Speaker 2: It's really special to make friends with somebody from outside
Speaker 2: your immediate circle, from outside your particular industry or sectoral
Speaker 2: or life experience and yet disconnect. It's really special, and
Speaker 2: that's what I love about Pitt. We come from very
Speaker 2: different perspectives, yet we align in so many ways, and
Speaker 2: it's just kind of reassuring that you as a person
Speaker 2: can make those connections and feel immediately at ease. And
Speaker 2: that's a political creation. You. You are always on edge
Speaker 2: because you're always in the public eye, and it's a relief.
Speaker 2: It's quite liberating not to be so. But you know,
Speaker 2: there was a while there when I had a senior
Speaker 2: position in government and I was never off. I was
Speaker 2: always on in that I was always aware that what
Speaker 2: I was saying or doing, or a face I pulled
Speaker 2: or some whatever could make news or commentary. And everyone's
Speaker 2: a photojournalist now and everybody with a mobile phone can
Speaker 2: catch you doing anything.
Speaker 3: Everyone knows what feels like.
Speaker 2: It's constant.
Speaker 3: It's constant.
Speaker 2: But around people, I don't have to worry about that.
Speaker 3: But around Julie, I might take.
Speaker 2: A photo of you right now and just put it
Speaker 2: up on Instagram about Julie.
Speaker 4: To have someone that knows what that feels like, it
Speaker 4: is really important because you can't explain that to anyone.
Speaker 3: Anyone thinks zero.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you start talking about there's so much pid,
Speaker 2: you're paranoid.
Speaker 3: Actually you're not. We're not paranoid. And it actually happens.
Speaker 2: You know, we've seen it. We know that it does happen.
Speaker 2: You're walking through an airport and you suddenly you just
Speaker 2: get that feeling that there's a photographer behind a rubbish bin.
Speaker 4: You don't know you said that, that just happened the
Speaker 4: other way.
Speaker 2: I remember I remember being down down at the beach
Speaker 2: once and there was a photographer in a bush and
Speaker 2: there what are you doing?
Speaker 4: There was a pat behind a garbage beer the other day.
Speaker 3: I was like, really, is that where we're at.
Speaker 1: Do you do in that situation?
Speaker 2: Did you call them out? What are you doing?
Speaker 3: What are you doing in a garbage bin?
Speaker 2: I mean, what photographer anyway hiding behind a dirty, old
Speaker 2: garbage bin just to get the shot.
Speaker 3: It's really nice for Julie to just normalize.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to normalize.
Speaker 3: We don't want to not know, we don't want to
Speaker 3: normalize it. But it's just you're you're you're not.
Speaker 1: But it's been the difference between you being able to
Speaker 1: navigate that as individuals and completely.
Speaker 2: But it's also comparing experiences and laughing ourselves sick that
Speaker 2: at the time it makes that time they might have
Speaker 2: been distressing, but when you laugh about it after was
Speaker 2: with somebody who's been through it, gets it, understands you
Speaker 2: know you, it just lightens the whole as you respect
Speaker 2: there too. Sure.
Speaker 1: Well, final question, this is only our second cover of
Speaker 1: Stella for.
Speaker 2: The year and.
Speaker 1: Something to talk about, so we have got twenty twenty
Speaker 1: four way ahead of us. Obvious question, but to be cliche,
Speaker 1: would be what do you hope for this year? For yourself?
Speaker 1: But if I can just also ask you, in the
Speaker 1: spirit of friendship today, what would you hope for one another?
Speaker 4: It's going to be our best year. It just will
Speaker 4: love that, it just will be totally. I feel like,
Speaker 4: you know, there's been you know, some growing pains and
Speaker 4: some challenges, and I.
Speaker 2: Think everyone coming out of COVID there's a whole new
Speaker 2: positivity and I know you're going to do some great things.
Speaker 2: I'm really excited the things in the pipeline for both
Speaker 2: of us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think we just we just go for it.
Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to twenty twenty four and I'm
Speaker 2: looking forward to supporting women who are doing great things,
Speaker 2: realizing they'res and pursuing their aspirations. That includes well, that.
Speaker 1: Is I think probably the perfect note on which to
Speaker 1: end our conversation. And here's too, hopefully less men hiding
Speaker 1: behind Garby. I hope you enjoyed that episode of the
Speaker 1: summer series or something to talk about. Make sure you're
Speaker 1: following us if you're not already, because we'll be revisiting
Speaker 1: some of your favorite episodes of the past year until
Speaker 1: we're back with the brand new episode on January twelfth.