WEBVTT - Summer series: in conversation with Pip Edwards & Julie Bishop 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.600 Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About Mastella Podcast. 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:13.000 I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and this year I have 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.079 had the privilege of sitting down with some of the 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.760 biggest names in the country. Because when Estralia's celebrities are 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.400 ready to talk, they come to Something to Talk About. 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.800 We're continuing to publish across the summer break and we'll 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.880 be back with a brand new episode on January twelfth. 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:30.600 In the meantime, each day for the next two weeks, 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.360 we'll be revisiting some of your favorite episodes from the 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:35.720 past year. And I'm happy to report that there have 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.800 been a lot of popular episodes, but out of the 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.960 fifty we released in twenty twenty four, we've narrowed it 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.840 down to ten conversations to revisit over the summer break. 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.960 Today you'll hear from Pip Edwards and Julie Bishop, and 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.120 unlikely double act who at first glance might not seem 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.600 to have much in common, but together their powerful friendship 0:00:55.720 --> 0:01:00.040 transcends their vastly different lives. So what happened when we 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.880 two of the most talked about women in Australia in 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.119 front of a microphone? Have a listen and find out 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.560 when I say Julie Bishop and Pip Edwards sitting in 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.240 the studio together with me on the cover of Stella today. 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:19.440 It's a pairing that not everyone would expect. Might think, oh, 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:21.200 are they working on something together? 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:23.280 We're always working on something together. 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:27.600 Something's always cooking, but not the cooking they would expect. 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:27.679 No. 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.959 Well, I stumbled upon this friendship by happy accident. We 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:34.640 were at an event together last year. It was the 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.319 white shirt campaign, Remember it And how did it first 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:39.440 come about? 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:44.280 Well? I knew of Pitt obviously through her p Nation 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:46.160 brand in the early days of. 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.080 Nation, and obviously I knew of Julie Bishop. 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.680 And then we met at a fashion I think we 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.480 maybe seeing you, but we met at a fashion awards night. 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.760 I was presenting to you the Star Vanguard of Future 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:05.120 as Australian award to PEE Nation, and I was so 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:09.200 proud of what Pip had managed to achieve on the 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.240 world stage, because as Foreign Minister, I'd been right into 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.040 fashion diplomacy, promoting Australian fashion, and I was firmly in 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:21.360 the view that Australian fashion was as good as any 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.240 nation's fashion in the world in our own way, and 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.840 that it should be promoted as other commodities and other 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.440 sectors of the industry were, so to have Pee Nation 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.960 recognized in this way was a big thrill, and we actually. 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.600 Liked to have Julie Bishop champion fashion and be such 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.960 an amazing supporter of the industry and all the brands. 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.480 Like but your pe Nation. The story was just brilliant. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.320 I remember talking to you that night about I was 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:49.560 going running the next day and you said straight to 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.640 the hotel. I like, sure, Yeah, that was terrific. 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:53.840 But then there's been. 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.160 Numerous events like we always see each other on the 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:04.600 circuit and always have fashion shows, but it's always all side, 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.880 honest cut through conversations. 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.200 Yeah we're not We're not talking about the fashion or 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.120 the event. We're talking about reasonal things. I'm collecting with 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.280 you know, what are you up to? What's happening? And 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.640 we have experienced some you know, some odd moments that 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.520 have become public in our lives, and we've got a 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:24.560 lot to share, a lot to. 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.160 Talk about, a lot to support and connect on. 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:31.880 Yeah. I admire everything you do from from a work perspective, 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:36.120 but I really respect Pip as a girlfriend and I 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.320 can tell you anything I have no, that's you know what, and. 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:40.920 That's actually the thing, and I think you'll see. 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.520 I think that's the energy that people pick actually picked 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:48.680 up on today on set was like the freedom to 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.920 flow and the freedom to talk without having to watch 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.360 your words or something or what's the agenda. 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.120 And that's really rare in our. 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:03.080 Positions and our industry because we are two women that 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.760 do get exposed and we are up for scrutiny and 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:12.480 judgment or you know, admiration, whatever it is. And you've 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.480 you've been we've been burnt before and all these things, 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:16.719 so there's always a bit of a guard. 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.159 Never ever, ever, ever. 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.320 Likewise likewise, immediately go girlfriend. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.040 For each of you individually, do you feel like you've 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.039 made a lot of friends in your respective life since 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:36.599 you both became public figures. Obviously you've had very different careers, 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.880 very different timelines. But is that hard to discover people 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.279 if you like, because obviously everyone has people that have 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:43.720 been in there. 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:47.880 You're talking to a politician. If you want to find 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:54.000 a friend in politics by a dog, There's that, there's 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.359 that side of it. But this is a friendship outside 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:02.480 my career, as this is passion for me. I mean, 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.839 fashion is a passion. It's a way of life for 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.760 pit obviously, but I have the same passion. I absolutely 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:13.039 identify with her love of fashion and style and love 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:16.320 what she's doing. So yeah, we were obviously always going. 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:20.479 But I think friendships friendships, but it's not Yeah, it's 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:25.719 since being a bit more public. There are friendships in 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.000 the industry, and you know why, and yours too, because 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.600 you know it's been I've spent like nearly twenty five 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.160 years in the industry, so of course you kind of 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.640 grow up together with people through the industry. So there 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:40.080 are friendships, but this one's a bit different because it's 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:42.200 just there's. 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.120 No yeah, there's no consition. 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:49.880 No, there's an absolute like the it's relatable, it's vulnerable. 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.440 You make me love, honest, to make me love. 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.440 And she can whisper things that are under her breath 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.840 that she basically whispers what I'm thinking, you know what 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.000 I mean. And I think that's why happened on set today. 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.480 There were some whispers going on there. 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:05.120 And they kept saying would you just. 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:07.440 And everyone was just like, we wish we had a 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:08.080 mic on them. 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.080 I wanted to ask a question for each of you separately. 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.000 As you said you both, of course, knew of each other, 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.800 and then you met and you had those first impressions, 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.840 and then a very genuine friendship was born. But what 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.440 will your observations, Piper might ask you first of the 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:29.640 Jewelie bishop that you knew as Foreign Minister, deputy leader 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:31.599 of the Liberal Party. 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.800 You can't even fathom that as a woman, that it's 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:39.120 so iconic and just reputable. And I was actually in 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:42.520 shock that I was in shock that she would even 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.680 talk to me in that sense, because I sometimes think 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.719 the fashion industry can be seen as a bit glamorous 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:50.719 or a bit fickle in a way. Sometimes, you know, 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.200 and there's this woman that's on the world stage, representing 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:58.840 the country and talking with like serious serious business, and 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.320 she is just slightly gushing about fashion, and I just 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.000 was blown away. And that's the humbleness that I see. 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.799 And then as you've come to know her so well, 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.880 become so close and such good friends, and as you've 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:15.000 talked about that trust, which is so rare to find 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.760 and such a quality in someone that everyone listening to 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.320 this knows what that's like. When you find somebody that 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.040 you trust innately. I mean, there is no value on that. 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.720 Well, it just cuts the ball to it and it's 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:28.840 like we launched straight into the chat. There's no there's 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.200 we don't have to do the fluff niceties. 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.600 Like it's just like what's going on here? 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.280 You know, I cut to the chair. I love it. 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:38.600 It's like that's just how it is. 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:43.920 Well, when I met Pip, she exemplified everything that I'd 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.840 been talking about and promoting in terms of Australian fashion. 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.480 She was creative, she was innovative, she was a risk 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:57.400 taker and a very independent and proud woman who took 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.600 no prisoners. She I just really admired her and loved 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.960 her style and her dynamism and exuded that night. Do 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.840 you remember being up on stage and she was just 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:08.760 so much fun. 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.840 But that's the other thing. She's so much fun, So 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.320 for a part so serious, it was such a. 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.800 Serious game with serious leaders, Like you know, next minute 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:18.440 she's like, oh, when when I was with the Queen 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.080 and then when I was with and she's talking about 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.400 crazy president and then she's like hanging out like whatever. 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.560 She drops these names and it's not like dropping them 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:29.640 like they're literally the people. 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.320 She is around, And I thinking like. 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.480 But you're not name dropping because that's your world and 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.520 then you, you know, talking a little on me and 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:39.400 but having a laugh. 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:41.640 No, but like that's Yeah. 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.360 Did that sense of humor come as a surprise, Yeah 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.240 to you, Yes, what else came as a surprise. 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.680 I just told you I was hilarious. 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.600 Note wasn't on the rawness. 0:08:55.679 --> 0:09:00.000 But also it's just the human side. There's a huge 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:02.000 and this is it. 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:06.000 Like, there's a human side to us and being whatever human, 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:10.520 what women go through, that's normal to all women, that resonates, 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:12.720 that's powerful, that's. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.800 In a way more powerful than what we do. 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:16.800 Do you agree with that? What about for you? 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.920 What surprised you when you got to know Pip? 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:27.200 Oh? Wow, exactly. So this episode's in ten. 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.920 Parts to be continued. 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.480 Yeah, I guess I was just so impressed by her 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.080 creative mind and she comes from a corporate background. That 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.640 surprised me because I always thought you'd been in fashion. 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.760 I thought your story was always fashion. But actually she 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.000 was going to be a finance banking legal type and 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.200 would have been a very different woman, and we would 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:51.080 have had a very different. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:52.840 Way, would have had a very different conversation, had a. 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.680 Very different conversation. But she'd had such a long time 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.160 in the fashion industry and then branched out into p Nation, 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.360 which was an enormous risk. That's such an incredible success story. 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:07.240 And Pip's always come across as somebody so zen, so relaxed, 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.480 so kind of out there. Yet she is dearly has 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:11.600 to be to achieve. 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.560 Like I say, I want to talk over you. Sorry, 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:15.360 but I will, but. 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:21.520 Next no, but not many women really fiercely look at 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.840 other women in that way or what they do. And 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:29.319 to have a woman like Julie Bishop recognize or acknowledge 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.120 and like uplift. 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:35.600 I like, you know, it's you could cry about it 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:37.840 because I can tell you now it's. 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.280 About the wild It's the wild West out there, you know, 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:42.559 it's the wild West. 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:48.120 Pip's resilience and that became apparent to me over the years. 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.319 That was an apparent that night. But you know, when 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:54.360 I was talking about your achievements, I was so proud 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.199 of you as to what you'd achieved. But over time 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:00.760 we've got to know each other, the vulnerabilities, the soft side. 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:05.640 Perhaps the first we've been overseas together, we were in London, 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.960 had a great time in London. When you when you're traveling, 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:09.440 that's different. 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.080 I mean, I was so lucky to go when we 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:14.600 were in London at the same time and I was 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:16.280 able to be her plus one. 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.880 To the Design were the Design Museum, Jean Sherman had 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.839 this amazing conference on design, architecture, fashion and I was 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.440 over there speaking on the politics of fashion, and my 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.319 plus one came with me to an evening. 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.880 Actually what are we wearing and how's this? 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.560 So we walk we walk into this event at the 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:40.320 Design Museum in London and everybody who's anybody in fashion, 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:41.960 design architecture in London is there. 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.720 There was no way I was getting an invite to that. No, no, 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:45.120 no way. 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.719 So I dragged my girlfriend. Anyway, I walk in and 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.840 immediately this woman walks up and goes, oh my god, 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.520 it's pipe in Australia. And I'm standing there go yeah, 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.480 she's with me. But the woman, I was so proud 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.520 of you. Yeah that's my girl. 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.079 This is it right, but this is it and it's 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:05.679 always like it's just But. 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.280 You know, another thing about that night, I mean it 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.120 was at a time when I don't think you were 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.440 getting due recognition in Australia at that moment. You were 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.720 getting it overseas, and I thought isn't that typical An 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.520 Australian woman comes overseas and she silences the room because 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:22.080 they were going, oh my god, Peter Edwards is here, 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:26.880 and at that moment in Australia, there were some negative 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.840 vibes in your life. So I'm really glad that we 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.240 caught up in London. It was fantastic. I've got very 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:34.440 cute pictures of us, of us. 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:36.000 Julie's an amazing woman. 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:40.240 Talks a little bit about some of those shared values 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:44.200 and interest that I suppose spark the friendship. There's no 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.839 formula to friendship, but I've been thinking about it a lot. 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.280 I mean, obviously I think everyone does for friendship, but 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.319 also ahead of this conversation, and sometimes it's finding those 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.559 things that you have in common and then also discovering 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:02.680 the differences and how those differences then might shape one 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:03.839 another over time. 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.960 Well, I'm going to say that what I've discovered is 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:11.200 that we have very similar scenarios that go on behind 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.400 the scenes, and we. 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:15.760 There's almost a rhythm to it. 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.360 We're actually could that work quite parallel. 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:23.120 We obviously have aligned interests. I mean, we love fashion, 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:25.840 We're interested in fitness. You're good at it, I love 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:30.320 it run I can't run. So you know, we've got 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.800 interest in fitness, fashion, current affairs, what's happening. 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.120 You know, all of that keeps me current in politics. 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.480 When I'm saying, what label is that you don't know 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:42.280 that we label? 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.000 Yes? I do, yes, I do not know what charkamas is. 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.160 And then she's like, then she's telling me something that 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.199 someone's just been appointed as something, And I'm like, what. 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.440 So reinforcing our content? 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:59.040 Have you become a bit more interested Pip in politics, 0:13:59.120 --> 0:13:59.800 world events? 0:13:59.800 --> 0:13:59.959 Well? 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:00.880 Be I do? 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:01.840 I just think them. 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.720 Well, I just think I'm in such a bubble. And 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.280 it's not like, you know, intentional, just I'm in this bubble. 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.400 Like even today She's like so and and I'm like, 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:12.920 oh my god, I need to remember that the world 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:14.959 is actually bigger than the bubble. 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.000 What I love about Pip's life and her work is 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:25.760 her marketing and branding intuition. She's good. And when I'm 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:27.680 running around in my pe nation, I think I wonder 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:29.120 what she's going to wear, you know, what she's going 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.600 to be designing next year, Because you're always ahead of 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.040 the curve. And we talk about that in the fashion sense, 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.600 but that's also manifested so many other ways. Pip's always 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.120 thinking over the horizon in a lot of ways. 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:42.720 But this challenging the other thing as well. 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.000 Oh god, were just this is just a big love 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.520 in sessioning. 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:50.960 Okay, what's amazing. 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:57.080 I think where the synchronicity and synergy is that we 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.480 we where our mind our mindsets are the same, and 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.360 we operate the same, so we can actually multitup. We're 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.440 always we can be in a room or we can 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.400 be talking, but we know exactly. We just know what's 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.640 going on and we can read the play as well. 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.040 Well, you know, while everyone thinks we're on it, well 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:16.080 thinks we're all on my phone, we know exactly what's 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:16.560 going we're on. 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.280 Yeah, let me ask because a lot of people will 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.160 be listening and wondering about the logistics. You've talked about 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:27.240 being in London together, meeting at events. How else do 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.200 you interact because obviously you I mean you're based in 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:31.040 different parts of. 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.160 Things to text message phones like all of it. Text 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:35.080 messages a lot. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:36.600 There will be, but there'll be a text at the 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:38.600 right time. This is the whole point. I don't have 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.040 to connect with Pip every day. We drive each other crazy. 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.680 But when something's happening, and I know it's happening in 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.320 a life, I'll just send them text to you, okay, 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.280 vibe and that's that's just enough, and you'll come back, 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:56.160 come back with either a screen four or yeah I'm fine, 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.600 and so check in. It's just to check it. Do 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.680 you remember. But when we caught up after COVID, I 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.800 mean it was hysterical and oh my godness, if I 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.720 I've just seen strangle me though, it's. 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.560 Like it's quite a thing of hers likes to get 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:11.800 me in. 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:15.280 A head, very strong actually, so you know that that 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.840 would be a fierce hug. 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:19.160 I bet on you. 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.800 Do you run or walk together because of this? 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:22.920 I would. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.960 She's a pilates, I'm a yogi and a runner, so 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:27.560 you know I. 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.040 Would never be running with her. Have you seen that run? 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.880 She runs every day? I don't. I don't. Yeah, no, 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:33.840 no running here. 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.200 So you don't really talk about politics, which is something 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:38.920 that or do you don't not? 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:44.360 I mean, if there's something happening, I'll download and we'll 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.800 tell what's going through my mind and how crazy is this? 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.680 But we talk about lots of things. We talk about 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.320 our lives, what we're doing family work work. 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.440 Yeah again, when I was thinking about the formula of 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.160 a friendship and some of the closest friendships in my life, 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:01.120 I don't know if you would both agree. I often 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.600 think also that moment where you first have a disagreement 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.200 or maybe maybe not an argument, or there's just something. 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:10.760 And I'll tell you why. I think that can be 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.840 an important obstacle or road bump or development in a 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.359 friendship is because then you get over it and so 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:20.880 you know you've been not not tested might be too 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.600 strong a word for it, but you know that there's Oh, actually, this. 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.040 Cannot imagine us disagreeing, and you. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.879 Know what, I think we're too there's so much humor. 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.720 Sometimes I think I could I might joke on her 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.879 too far. It might go you know, it could be 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.840 go not no, like you don't want to be too rude. 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:40.360 I'll remind you of that. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:42.600 Yeah no, but I know you know, like you can 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.560 maybe like, well, you don't you don't It was like today, 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:46.199 I don't know. 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.320 If you don't know everybody's you don't know your vulnerability. 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.199 There might be something that that is a you know, 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.760 a very sore point and you would know it. But 0:17:55.440 --> 0:18:01.440 she never maliciously, and I would never willingly hurt people 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.679 say anything that would hurt her upset her. So I 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.160 just don't see that I heard stop talking. Oh yeah, 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.119 I mean as if you're the first person who ever 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.560 say that to me. Everyone told me to stop talking. 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.360 You just joined the queue. I didn't get the stair, though, 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:21.160 you know, I reserve that for special occasions. 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.600 I've never had that Oh I'm sitting here breaks. 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:29.000 Oh are you ask the wrong question and you'll get 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:29.960 the stair? Believe me? 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:32.040 Well, I want to say it. 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.280 Can you ask the wrong question? You can't turn it 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:37.879 on and off like that heat seeking missile that you 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.360 turn on for guys. No, no, no, it just happens. 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.359 I wanted to ask you about that competing aspect because 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:47.480 you did mention that early on. And there is a 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.080 lot of discussion in the wider culture about women being 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:54.280 pitted against each other. We've all heard countless sometimes women 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.200 but mainly men, say oh, women are their own worst enemies. 0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:59.719 It's been something that I've talked to a lot of 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.199 particularly women in media about on the podcast over the 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.160 last year, who've called BS on it. But of course 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:11.119 it does happen. So can I ask you individually, Julie, 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.240 do you think we're getting better in how women treat 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:18.760 each other, how the culture treats female friendship, female peers. 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:22.200 Because you've often been the only woman in the room 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.600 a lot of the time, and so you're obviously cast 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.240 against a lot of other women, do you think it's 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.040 getting better? And obviously it's a really cool pillar of 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:35.040 your friendship. Is it something that you're seeing replicated in 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.240 other relationships associations in your life. 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.359 I believe we have a long way to go. Society 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:45.760 has a long way to go. Of course, my political 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:51.520 career was in very much a male dominated scenario environment. 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:56.159 But whenever I did come up against another woman, it 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:58.000 would be labeled as a cat fight. 0:19:58.320 --> 0:19:59.200 A cat fight. 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.960 So if I were having a debate with a man, 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:09.240 that'd say, oh, she's screeching, But as soon as two 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:13.520 women were having a debate, it would be labeled a catfight. 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.120 And I found that really disappointing. I don't think that's 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:21.240 changed much. I also think that women's friendships are misunderstood, 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.119 although I do love some of the some of the 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.000 stories that have been coming up recently, you know, people 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:27.879 like Jane Fonda saying it doesn't matter about all the 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.320 men in her life. It's the women that count. It's 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:33.680 her girlfriend's that count, and so there's perhaps a deep appreciation. 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.040 I think there's a content, maybe more of a consciousness 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.800 of that of caring more. But I do think the 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:45.280 landscape is still you know, sometimes you know, you want 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:50.080