WEBVTT - Should you have a Self Managed Super Fund? 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.880 Hello, and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:21.560 James Kirby, the World editor at The Australian. Welcome aboard everybody. Now, 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:25.280 do you think that you should have a self managed 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:27.920 super fun Maybe you have a self managed super fund? 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.680 Do you think it's worth the effort? Or alternatively, if 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.000 you had won, would you be better off? Would you 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:37.680 be a more successful investor? I've had a self managed 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.800 super fund for about twenty years, but I don't know 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.200 as much as my guest today, it's Julie Dolan. She's 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.720 fed up SMSF, self managed super funds and the state 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.320 planning at KPMG. Hi, Julia, how are you? 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:52.240 Hi? Good? Thanks Jones? 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:54.520 How are you good? Thank you? Nice to have you on. 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.120 It's great to have someone actually with a helicopter view 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.920 of this area. It's the sort of two lines to it. 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:04.920 I mean as a journalist I watch it in two ways. 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.039 I watch it like as a sector is it getting bigger? 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.360 Is it getting smaller? Or are the trends et cetera? 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:14.520 And then I watch it as an investor does it 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.920 still make sense for me individually to have one? And 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.880 is it going well enough? And have I got it 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.600 structured in the correct fashion. But like one of the things, 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:30.240 I suppose just just first of all, usefully and this 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.759 is pure coincidence, don't you know. It wasn't my smart 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.240 planning or anything. But the new ATO numbers are out 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.800 about participation if you like on self managed super funds. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:43.280 It's you'll immediately challenge me on this, I'm sure, but 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.839 it seems to me that the number of super funds 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:50.960 in Australia is stuck hard in or around five hundred 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.480 and six hundred thousand for as long as I can remember. 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:57.960 But I believe it's growing, but it seems to be 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.840 only growing a little bit. What's theual numbers? 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.200 Actually, yes, James, you must have had you must have 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.280 had a magical wand on the figures because they actually 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:11.280 came out yesterday from the ATO. They come out of supporter. Yeah. 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.960 Yeah, I planned it all. Yeah, so what would. 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:20.400 If you've planned out? So once again, yeah, the growth 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.680 is the growth is consistent like it's once again, there 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.160 was another seven three hundred setups in the in during 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.840 the quarter and there's only in a small number of 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.919 wind wind ups. But you have to I suppose when 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.520 I look at it. I look at the legislative landscape 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.799 and even setting up new funds these days, it's the 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:43.160 ATO even most times, most times they're not will give 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.920 a potential trustee a call and go through to make 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.000 sure that they are a fit, that they're doing it 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:52.160 for the proper reasons. So I don't mind the steady 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.639 growth because then with all the changes that are happening 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.720 at the moment, and the ATO being the regulators, there's 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.400 is a stronger chance that the ones are getting set up, 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:04.639 they're getting set up for the right purpose, and so 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:08.160 it's maintaining even more so the credibility of the industry 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:12.640 that it deserves. So the latest numbers, I've actually got 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:17.440 them written here. We're six hundred and sixteen six six 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:23.960 one hundred and sixteen thousand, four hundred funds and equipped, 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.160 and that is made up of eight hundred and ninety 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:32.560 six billion dollars. So we're literally just just behind the 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:39.440 opera my gv MY super sector as the second largest, 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:41.080 So we're definitely a big player. 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:45.320 It's always it's always large because the people who have 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.440 smsfs have more money, of course they do, and just 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.320 a few other things separately, Investment trends and Vanguard released 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:56.360 their report also released their report today that this is 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.560 the one that triggered my idea to talk to you today. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:04.400 So very briefly, folks, if you're listening about the big picture, 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.560 over an number of smsfs continues to rise. There's about 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:12.920 six hundred and fifteen thousand sms ss across Australia and 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:18.080 the average balance is and this is really interesting, right, 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.600 it's three hundred and thirty thousand dollars, this is what 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.240 they say. And of people establishing new funds that is 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.880 the average balance is three hundred. Yeah, and the average 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.360 age is forty seven. This is and this year. We 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.479 talk about all the time on the show Julie, how 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.920 much should you have who have an sms F. I 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:37.640 mean you might say how long is a piece of strength? 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:38.360 Exactly. 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.520 I've had people on the show seriously saying you need 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:48.080 a million dollars more typically maybe six seven hundred. I know, 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:49.960 I'm trying to remember what the figure is from the 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.720 professional associations, but obviously those figures are very low because 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.920 they want as many people to join as possible. But 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:01.520 I think you know money talk. So here's the number 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.840 of folks for the average person age forty seven who's 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:08.520 starting and SMSF At the moment, it's three hundred and 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:14.600 thirty thousand dollars, Judy, is that is that enough money 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:15.440 to start a fund? 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:20.279 Do you think, Well, I've got clients. It absolutely depends. 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:22.839 I've got clients who are starting it in their twenties 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:26.520 because they want to. It's not necessarily to me about 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.000 the money. Obviously, you do need to do your cost 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:30.800 benefit analysis. But at the end of the day, it's 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:32.960 the type of person that you are as well. So 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.520 if you really do want to have control and transparency 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.640 and you really do want to have the ability to 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.159 invest accordingly and grow your superinnuation earlier the better. 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:47.000 The sooner the better, I suppose. So, yeah, but the 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.039 sooner the better. You're not going to have three hundred 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.800 Most people aren't going to have three hundred and thirty thousand, 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:53.600 are there. 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.640 No, it's more the fact of the obviously the age, 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:00.480 it's their ability of how much money they have outside. 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.520 And also we're in a different world too, in the 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:05.640 sense that the younger than someone is, it's the more 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:09.480 of their the superinnovation of their job. They're super guarantee 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:13.080 that's going in so that consistent ability. And also insurances, 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.279 so if insurances are going to go into the fund, 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.080 that that can potentially make it a small fund to 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:21.880 potentially a very large fund should it triggering it ben occur. 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.640 And also whatever assets are sit outside. So I don't 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.640 have a hard and fast rule. You know, obviously you 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.560 don't start one with a very very small amount, but 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:31.920 it does. 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:34.960 Is there a rock bottom minimum that you would see? 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.440 I would probably say that to two hundred two fifty. 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.600 I'm sort of comfortable with that based on doing analysis 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:42.480 that sits outside. 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:46.360 Okay, that's very interesting now, folks, I find with surf 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:50.120 managed super funds. I was probably younger than most people 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.720 when I did it, but that was because I was 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:54.760 writing about it and I thought, you know, you should 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.640 sort of walk the talk. But I find this in 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.279 terms of manage super funds. In terms of people thinking 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.400 about it, the average age is forty seven, which is 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.440 useful to a point. That's the commencement age. The average age, 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:10.920 of course is older, will skew older because by definition, 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.400 if people start on average at forty seven, then if 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.760 you think about it, it's older people who have them, 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.360 and older people are wealthier because they saved for longer. 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.440 That all makes sense, but Judy, it seems to be 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:25.680 the two types of people who kind of think about 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.160 actively think about self managed super funds, who may not 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:32.760 have them as a young person or young young up 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.840 to the age of forty seven, which are who are thinking, Hey, 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:38.680 you know, I could do a lot more, I could 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:43.200 have control. Crucially, people will often say I want to 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.400 put a property in there. I know property. I like property, 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.720 and my big fund, my Australian super Cibus or whatever. 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:51.800 They're not doing that. They can't buy the house around 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:53.840 the corner that I want to buy. That's a big 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.160 distinction for funds. The other thing that happens is on 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:01.640 the other side where people have big savings and super 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:06.320 where they have I wish we could get a clear 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.280 number on this, but there is a point in the 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:12.560 big super funds be there retail or industry where really 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.360 they're designed for the average investor, and you're not an 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:21.920 average investor anymore. And certainly in many funds you're crosss 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.160 opsidizing other in terms of the fees you're paying and 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.640 all that you could be paying much less. Could you 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:28.080 explain that to us? 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.719 Yeah, it's it is interesting because even when you look 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.360 at the statistics on the industry funds, obviously the amounts 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.480 are a lot smaller and they're an accumulation phase too. 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:41.839 When you look at the self managed fund where on 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.079 it's a very high level of pension drawdown phase and 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.199 the fund and the money is still increasing. So that's 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:48.120 a very important point. 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:50.640 Allow yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.559 So we're in a very heavy drawdown phase. So it 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:58.240 once again does come back to the person and their 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:03.520 willingness to to have that very clear transparency in control 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:06.800 and also to invest in other assets that may not 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.439 fall within the you know, their prove product listing or 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:16.560 structure of their industry fund. And there's there's a lot 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:18.959 of reasons that I see people set them up. A 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:20.640 lot of them do they do if they're in business. 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:24.160 It's part of their structuring in businesses, especially if they've 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:25.160 got commercial property. 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.719 A lot of those. It's another huge thing that if 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.679 you have a business, you can buy your fund, can 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.920 buy a property and you can rent from your fund basically, 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:38.960 which is such a winner if you have a business. 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:43.120 Yes, that's that is that is quite common. And then 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.280 it's it's people coming up to look, there's there's a whole. 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.079 I call it the life cycle of the self managed fund. There, 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.559 it's a constantly moving depending on the profile, what members 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.319 are in, what members are coming in, what are the 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:56.959 what are the needs and wishes of those specific members. 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.000 So it constantly changes and moves. And that's why I 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.640 love them so much, because it can ebb and flow 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:06.440 for a family depending on that specific members investment needs 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.199 and desires and requirements. 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:11.880 You mentioned how having a certain matter of super fund 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:15.679 apart from the control, apart from that, you should be 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.640 paying less in You should be, but you may not 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.559 be paying less in fees. Depends on how much you 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.280 have and how you operate, and whether you have loads 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.360 of bts in there, for instance, and it's just this 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.600 minimum low touch fund, or whether you're this incredibly diversified 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.840 fund and your accountant is bamboos of every with your 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.079 new investments. But then you're going to have higher fees. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.720 But what I want to ask you is you mentioned 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:42.840 other assets. The obvious one is direct property. Is there 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:47.359 other asset classes that I can put into my SMSF 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.240 that I don't get a big fund? 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.120 Yeah? The main one is property, definitely, and it may 0:10:54.200 --> 0:11:00.480 also be investments with related parties around allowable and investments 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:04.439 and structures. So without going into too much complexity, it 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:09.599 maybe going into lend leverage and ultimately it usually is 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:13.280 property but leveraging the superinnoation with a related party to 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.400 go in in tenants and common to acquire property or 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:20.920 into an unrelated trust to do certain things. So there 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:25.040 is a subset of different investments that an industry fund 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:30.760 won't allow for. And it's also another big thing with 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.120 self managed funds. It's the timing. It's the timing of 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.599 when you put your contributions in. It's the timing of 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.880 when you pay your tax yes point, timing of starting retirement, 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.600 the timing of making sure the who, when and how 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.800 of your superinnoation goes to your loved ones. So it's 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.240 it's also it comes back to that control of making 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.839 sure that you really are maximizing the life journey of 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.880 your contributions to retirement, to a state planning and the 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.240 most affected by for your family. It's very difficult with 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.959 an industry fund because you just dominate. You're just controlled 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.520 by forms ben sent out to you and you don't 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:09.920 know what's happening behind the scene. 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:12.240 Yeah, and they are designed for that. They are designed 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:16.760 for mass engaged there and they work very well on 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.959 that basis. But they do, but not if you want 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.400 to do so you're talking about timing, I mean, I 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.440 think another point what timing is in terms of asset 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:30.079 allocation and tactical asset allocation. You can decide if you 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:35.360 think that the market is overheating, you can reallocate the 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:39.599 money out into something else. Likewise, if you think a 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.880 certain area is undercooked and it's going to come flying back, 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.760 you can move it around or even the safe spaces 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.520 of chairs. Right, So the shaar is tanking. You know, 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.840 it's tanking. The whole world it's tanking. The big super 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:53.920 funds are going to be very slow to get around 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.719 to getting out there, but you can do seconds and 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:58.280 you can have true diversification. 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.480 You can have true diversification where you can go I 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.559 want I even want cash, I want turned deposits, I 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:08.600 want list of securities in these industries, and I want 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.880 like you can really work with a financial advisor, even 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.400 depending on how savvy the investor is to to really 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.199 have that investment strategy that is required for your fund 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.599 to be that proactive investment strategy that dictates how you 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.800 are going to invest for your retirement. So it does 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.880 allow you that control and transparency of those words I 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.080 keep using, but they're very much the case. You can 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.199 very much, you know. But there's a flip side. The 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:42.040 flip side means that you are required to follow strict 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.040 rules that are that are handed down by the ATO 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.679 because they are the regulator. And it is a very 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.559 very high tax concession environment. So there is you do 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.240 have to follow a subset of rules and it does 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.560 take time. It's another it's another entity that needs tax 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.920 returns to me. 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.319 The flip side, if I look back at twenty years 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.360 of having a Serve super fund, is the spinning out 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.480 forms which seems to get worse worse. It gets worse 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.360 and worse, and the length and the complexity of these 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.480 forms get worse and worse. I'm just doing one at 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.480 the moment. What is it? Oh, this isn't even something 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.600 I want to do. This is an existing organization which 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.520 has changed its rules and has said to me I 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.840 must update my form filling for them. And it's just 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.520 one asset, you know, it's good for it's worth ah, yes, 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:31.720 but it doesn't really matter what it is. The point 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:34.240 I'm making is that people have to they really have 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.640 you really have to say, Okay, I take that on board. 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:37.960 I'm going to have to do it. 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.040 Yeah, you put the time into it board. Yeah. 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:43.960 Have you if I walked into your office and said, 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:45.840 how long is it going to take me every year 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.080 or every month? Have you got a benchmark answer? 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.240 Well, there's obviously the investing. It depends on how active 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.560 you want to be as an investor and where you are. 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:57.440 So if you the more active you are, obviously the 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.480 more time it's going to take. Or if you're a 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:02.600 set and forget or if you're this part of your 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.480 portfolio that you set and forget, well it doesn't take 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.200 too much time. But it's a big thing. Is once 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.080 again the investment strategy that you need to put your 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.120 mind to. The ATO doesn't want to see just a 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.240 standard template. They actually want you to go. As a trustee, 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.440 I'm different to a member. I have trustees duties. That's 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.680 a covenant, that's that is required that you must act 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.280 in the best interest of members, be it yourself in 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.840 the sense of looking at the investment strategy of the 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.760 fund and making sure it's in line with the sole 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.560 purpose of retirement for the members be yourself. 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:41.200 Yeah, so what's new in this area? Like what has 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:46.600 changed SMSFS for there was there was a period obviously 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.840 where they were front and center of the news for 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:51.960 the simple reason that you could put any amount into 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:57.080 super in those days it was uncapped. And then on 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.200 top of that, the whole area was new and it's 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:05.120 mushroomed and now it's uh now it's matured or so 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.120 years in yeah, gentle pace of growth. It's sort of 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.680 more or less a proxy with the wider population. Uh So, 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.520 so what is different now than than that period? 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:19.160 Definitely maturity. Maturity the industry is absolute, and maturity the 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:23.320 industry is actually carved out certain rules that you know, 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.160 people were potentially maybe taking advantage of that. We're going 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:31.840 against the intention of the laws. Political but you know, 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:37.240 obviously a different elected, different different government coming through unfortunately, 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.960 they've wanted to have a look at the rules that 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.120 sit over there and what can be tweaked, which I 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:45.960 would like for that to stop for a little while. 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.320 Personally, I mean, I mean, in a way, it's in 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.320 a way it's a it's a live beast, right, I mean, in. 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.240 A way, it's a huge amount of money. 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.720 Are we dreaming that they will ever be left alone? 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:58.640 And maybe that's part of the past that we have 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.680 to take on and see if you want to be 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.920 active with SUPER. Part of that has been across the rules, 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.200 which not that they're changing, but that they will never 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:07.960 stop changing. 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.000 It's like it's like income tax rules as well. It 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.119 is just what tax tax changes all the time. But 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.760 you know, I could talk for hours about the concept 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:22.400 where superannuation sits within the landscape of our retirement policy 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.359 and how much tweaking can get too much because at 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.119 the end of the day, it is one of the pillars, 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:29.440 and one of the pillars is government support. One of 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:34.200 is self funding through superinnoation, and one of it is 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:38.520 assets that sit outside of super. And the government support 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.680 side is obviously shrinking. The coffers are shrinking, and so 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.159 it is encouraged. It should be more encouragement to be 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.720 able to self self serve and self invest and be 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.879 self sufficient. So changing these rules all the time and 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.560 cutting the ability to continue to contribute is got to me, 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.480 is going against this self ability to self you know, 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.720 fun to your own retirement. So it's a blind line 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:03.280 of tweaking. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.720 If I said to you, apart from indexation inflation indexation 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.400 which was built in anyway that all changes of lead, 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.520 I haven't seen any. I haven't seen one encouraging change 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.159 to super for years. No, they're generally discouraging, am I 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:18.920 is that totally great? 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.840 And it shouldn't be discouraging. It should be encouraging. So 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.720 we want to save and we want to be able 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.200 to be self sufficient in retirement because we need to be. 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.240 You know, we're seeing this even now without cost of 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.080 living crisis, We're needing to be even more self sufficient 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.000 moving forward. So I feel like it's a band aid 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.920 approach consistently on these changes, and even I could once 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.560 again spend hours talking about the three million dollar proposed change. 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.480 It's a band aid's there's no logic behind it. 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:49.920 Okay, all right, well we might deal with that in moments. 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:54.480 We might take you for that break. Yes I have, 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.359 I hope I've come. I've learned how to actually explain 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.399 this tax in less than thirty seconds. 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:01.840 I prepared to because I'd be glad to hear it. 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:08.080 Yeah, yeah you can. After the break, Hello and welcome 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.160 back to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby, 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.119 the editor at The Australian. I'm talking to Julie Dolan, 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:19.560 who is the head of SMSs and the State Planning. Julie, 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.840 I've just thought in terms of your job title, they're 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:24.639 not supposed to be related to SMSs. 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:29.199 And I know I do fad into each other. 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.000 We are told it sober told the have nothing to 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:33.680 do with each other. But there you are with that. 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.280 I would just leave that for our listeners to ponder. Okay, now, 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.960 if I've got an SMS and I see that the 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.280 big funds are knocking out of the park and they're 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:49.360 doing ten percent a year, and that's not the case anymore, 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:50.879 but there was a year or two where they were 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.480 doing ten percent a year, or I read you know, 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.359 obviously you always read about the most successful fund right, 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.040 so there's always going to be a couple of funds 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:00.680 that do great and we paid ess to the ones 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:05.239 who are appalling. How do I score myself. I've got 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.680 an SMSF Why do I score myself? Should I just say, okay, 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.200 I take a fund see bus are super and I've 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.040 got to pick them every year? That has the approach. 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:18.920 Oh, it's so difficult because you're comparing apples to orangers like, 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:24.119 unless you're really understanding what the underlying investment methodology is 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.520 and how active they are versus if it's just set 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:31.160 and forget versus if it's active management, then the fee structure, 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.320 it's it's and then even just trying to, you know, 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.560 get to the real bottom figures and not just the 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:42.080 broadcasted figures, it's it's very difficult. I think with a 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:44.480 self managed fund, you need to be comfortable with your 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.760 own profile. So you need to be comfortable with you 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:50.320 as an investor and how much risk you're prepared to take, 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:54.840 and then then invest accordingly. Don't try and chase returns 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.399 because you know, and don't try to look backwards on 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.160 past performance. We know that that that's not the way 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.239 to go. So sitting there going this is me as 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.920 an investor, and me and my timeline towards when I 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.440 want to retire or whatever your situation is, this is 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.840 what I'm comfortable with, and based on that profile, you 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:19.239 seek competent advice or invest accordingly based on what your 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:20.040 comfort level is. 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:24.400 Well, is there a rock bottom the turn where you said, look, 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:26.840 you'd really want to be doing x percent above at 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:27.399 least want. 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:30.040 To keep CPI. You want at least you don't want 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:31.960 to be going backwards with your dollars, that's for sure. 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:33.359 You don't want to be sitting at all in cash 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.720 and going backwards. But some people are some people comfortable 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:36.920 with that. 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.440 Yeah, I wonder how they're comfortable with that. 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.800 It's a very hard one to do. Every Actually, every 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.080 fund is different, Every single super fund is different. That's 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.360 why I love about them in essence, because they're investing 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.000 accordingly based and it's not only just based on them, 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:56.880 it's based on the profile of their family. 0:21:57.440 --> 0:21:57.680