1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,600 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,900 Sean Aylmer: One of the most significant trends in investing is sustainable 3 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:13,230 Sean Aylmer: or ethical investing. Today, I wanted to look at one 4 00:00:13,230 --> 00:00:16,560 Sean Aylmer: aspect in particular, and that's green investing - the idea that 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:18,630 Sean Aylmer: you can help lower carbon emissions while at the same 6 00:00:18,630 --> 00:00:23,790 Sean Aylmer: time ensuring a financial return on your investment. Altius Asset Management, 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,820 Sean Aylmer: which is the in-house cash and fixed interest team at 8 00:00:26,820 --> 00:00:30,720 Sean Aylmer: Australian Unity, launched the Green Bond Fund last year, the 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,959 Sean Aylmer: first in the Australian market. Bill Bovingdon is the Chief 10 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,530 Sean Aylmer: Investment Officer of Altius Asset Management. Bill, welcome to Fear 11 00:00:37,530 --> 00:00:38,010 Sean Aylmer: and Greed. 12 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:39,210 Bill Bovingdon: Thanks very much. 13 00:00:39,450 --> 00:00:41,820 Sean Aylmer: Let's start with the basics for people like me. What 14 00:00:41,820 --> 00:00:43,440 Sean Aylmer: exactly is green investing? 15 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,709 Bill Bovingdon: Yeah, well, look, there are quite a few definitions and 16 00:00:46,710 --> 00:00:51,830 Bill Bovingdon: terminology around green investing. And clearly, it straddles not only 17 00:00:52,229 --> 00:00:57,810 Bill Bovingdon: various levels of direct and impact investing across different asset classes, 18 00:00:58,140 --> 00:01:00,420 Bill Bovingdon: but it also has, you know, high touch and low 19 00:01:00,420 --> 00:01:03,240 Bill Bovingdon: touch or deep green and light green, if you like. 20 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,850 Sean Aylmer: Right. So can you give me some examples of what 21 00:01:05,850 --> 00:01:08,280 Sean Aylmer: you're and the Green Bond Fund is investing in, for example? 22 00:01:08,670 --> 00:01:11,670 Bill Bovingdon: Yeah, absolutely. Well, in the fixed income space, I guess 23 00:01:11,670 --> 00:01:16,470 Bill Bovingdon: ESG (Environmental, Social, Governance) is a relatively new phenomenon. Altius Asset Management launched 24 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:19,709 Bill Bovingdon: Australia's first sustainable green bond, which is a green bond 25 00:01:19,709 --> 00:01:24,540 Bill Bovingdon: that has an ESG focus. So a responsible investment option, 26 00:01:24,540 --> 00:01:28,590 Bill Bovingdon: if you like, in fixed income back in 2014. So, 27 00:01:28,590 --> 00:01:31,650 Bill Bovingdon: you know, only about seven years old now. And I 28 00:01:31,650 --> 00:01:34,920 Bill Bovingdon: guess the distinction there is that's a fund which is 29 00:01:35,340 --> 00:01:40,470 Bill Bovingdon: starts with a relatively conventional fixed income universe and then 30 00:01:40,650 --> 00:01:45,209 Bill Bovingdon: sorts that universe according to the research that we undertake 31 00:01:45,209 --> 00:01:50,130 Bill Bovingdon: on the ESG profile and capabilities of those debt issuers 32 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:58,020 Bill Bovingdon: to exclude any unacceptable activities and to positively sort for 33 00:01:58,020 --> 00:02:02,100 Bill Bovingdon: better ESG performance. And the Green Bond Fund is really 34 00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:04,710 Bill Bovingdon: a very much an extension of that because it takes 35 00:02:04,710 --> 00:02:09,120 Bill Bovingdon: that search for positive impact from the lending that you 36 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,630 Bill Bovingdon: do to organisations to the next level because a green 37 00:02:12,630 --> 00:02:19,380 Bill Bovingdon: bond actually specifically identifies the projects and uses of the 38 00:02:19,380 --> 00:02:24,240 Bill Bovingdon: funds when they actually make their way to the organisation 39 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:25,470 Bill Bovingdon: that's doing the borrowing. 40 00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:28,230 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so just sort of putting examples on that and 41 00:02:28,230 --> 00:02:31,080 Sean Aylmer: not necessarily the green bond fund does this, but that 42 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:35,519 Sean Aylmer: first level, it's saying we won't support or fund tobacco 43 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,160 Sean Aylmer: companies or gaming companies or whatever it happens to be. 44 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:38,720 Bill Bovingdon: Exactly. 45 00:02:38,730 --> 00:02:41,430 Sean Aylmer: But this next level with the Green Bond Fund, what 46 00:02:41,430 --> 00:02:45,300 Sean Aylmer: you're doing is saying you will support organisations that are 47 00:02:45,300 --> 00:02:49,350 Sean Aylmer: having an impact. What sort of assets are you lending 48 00:02:49,350 --> 00:02:50,490 Sean Aylmer: to through the bond fund? 49 00:02:50,850 --> 00:02:53,880 Bill Bovingdon: Well, look at a really good example of the distinction 50 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,880 Bill Bovingdon: is that for many years in our sustainable bond fund, 51 00:02:57,180 --> 00:03:00,930 Bill Bovingdon: we had an exclusion on Woolworths. And the rationale there 52 00:03:00,930 --> 00:03:04,260 Bill Bovingdon: was that they had a obviously part of their business 53 00:03:04,260 --> 00:03:08,940 Bill Bovingdon: was in alcohol sales and also gambling. So two activities 54 00:03:08,940 --> 00:03:12,610 Bill Bovingdon: which are in a responsible investment mandate didn't find favour. 55 00:03:13,110 --> 00:03:16,470 Bill Bovingdon: We knew that they had a demerger plan in place 56 00:03:16,470 --> 00:03:20,670 Bill Bovingdon: and we, therefore, kept an engagement going with Woolworths, but 57 00:03:20,669 --> 00:03:24,419 Bill Bovingdon: they still stayed on our excluded list. Then they brought 58 00:03:24,419 --> 00:03:26,850 Bill Bovingdon: a green bond to the market and the green bond 59 00:03:26,850 --> 00:03:30,630 Bill Bovingdon: was specifically being used to retrofit and to improve the 60 00:03:30,630 --> 00:03:35,190 Bill Bovingdon: emissions performance of their retail businesses. And we thought that 61 00:03:35,190 --> 00:03:38,100 Bill Bovingdon: was a terrific initiative. So we gave them a carve-out 62 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,040 Bill Bovingdon: to allow their green bond to be held both in 63 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,309 Bill Bovingdon: our green bond fund and our sustainable fixed income fund 64 00:03:44,730 --> 00:03:48,240 Bill Bovingdon: on the basis that they didn't backslide on their demerger, 65 00:03:48,540 --> 00:03:51,390 Bill Bovingdon: which they obviously completed not long ago when they spun 66 00:03:51,390 --> 00:03:54,180 Bill Bovingdon: off the Endeavour Group. But I think that gives a distinction. 67 00:03:54,180 --> 00:03:57,750 Bill Bovingdon: We certainly wouldn't have entertained being invested in Woolworths in 68 00:03:57,750 --> 00:04:01,770 Bill Bovingdon: any fashion until they completed that demerger, except that they 69 00:04:01,770 --> 00:04:04,080 Bill Bovingdon: brought this green bond to market and we really wanted 70 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:05,310 Bill Bovingdon: to support that initiative. 71 00:04:05,610 --> 00:04:09,810 Sean Aylmer: So it raises the question that companies can change. And 72 00:04:09,810 --> 00:04:12,480 Sean Aylmer: so airports used to be much dirtier than they are 73 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,159 Sean Aylmer: now in an ESG sense. BHP is there's talk around 74 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,350 Sean Aylmer: the place that it may get rid of its oil 75 00:04:19,350 --> 00:04:24,060 Sean Aylmer: and gas assets. Without you commenting specifically on those examples, 76 00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:26,279 Sean Aylmer: that's not what I'm asking, can companies be on the 77 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,800 Sean Aylmer: list and then off the list? And does that happen often, 78 00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:32,640 Sean Aylmer: and particularly if you're changing from fossil fuels to renewables, 79 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,860 Sean Aylmer: is that going to curry favour with people like you? 80 00:04:35,370 --> 00:04:38,909 Bill Bovingdon: Look, it's a great question because there's a whole philosophical 81 00:04:38,910 --> 00:04:43,330 Bill Bovingdon: question around things like transition bonds, where a business, you know, 82 00:04:43,410 --> 00:04:48,900 Bill Bovingdon: has a legacy of high emission activities. And, you know, 83 00:04:48,900 --> 00:04:51,930 Bill Bovingdon: we don't want to penalise them for that because those 84 00:04:51,930 --> 00:04:55,770 Bill Bovingdon: businesses were created and indeed a lot of good for 85 00:04:55,770 --> 00:04:59,969 Bill Bovingdon: society in terms of economic development and so forth for 86 00:04:59,970 --> 00:05:03,020 Bill Bovingdon: many years before it was obvious that there was a problem 87 00:05:03,020 --> 00:05:07,400 Bill Bovingdon: with emissions, so really it for us it's about intent 88 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,750 Bill Bovingdon: going forward. But equally, there's a real concern that and 89 00:05:11,750 --> 00:05:15,169 Bill Bovingdon: due diligence required on our part before we will be 90 00:05:15,170 --> 00:05:20,690 Bill Bovingdon: comfortable that there is a credible transition plan in place. Look, 91 00:05:20,690 --> 00:05:23,419 Bill Bovingdon: the name of this podcast is Fear and Greed. So 92 00:05:23,420 --> 00:05:26,540 Bill Bovingdon: let me, I guess, highlight where I see the fear 93 00:05:26,540 --> 00:05:29,599 Bill Bovingdon: in the green bond market and ESG investing in general. 94 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,350 Bill Bovingdon: And it's all around greenwashing. So to the extent that 95 00:05:33,650 --> 00:05:39,890 Bill Bovingdon: there are organisations that will cynically or otherwise use the 96 00:05:39,890 --> 00:05:43,080 Bill Bovingdon: cover of potential, you know, what would you say ... 97 00:05:43,250 --> 00:05:46,700 Sean Aylmer: Curry favour by leaning a little too heavily on green 98 00:05:46,700 --> 00:05:48,410 Sean Aylmer: credentials that aren't there, perhaps? 99 00:05:48,410 --> 00:05:52,700 Bill Bovingdon: Correct. Or alternatively, have a management that gets rolled. I mean, 100 00:05:53,180 --> 00:05:55,849 Bill Bovingdon: if you look at AGL, for instance, you know, with 101 00:05:55,850 --> 00:05:59,540 Bill Bovingdon: their previous CEO, it looked like they were really meaningfully 102 00:05:59,540 --> 00:06:02,510 Bill Bovingdon: going to try to transition their business and then backslid 103 00:06:02,690 --> 00:06:05,330 Bill Bovingdon: with the change of management. And so there's a lot 104 00:06:05,330 --> 00:06:07,549 Bill Bovingdon: to be done. And I think, you know, what we're 105 00:06:07,550 --> 00:06:12,530 Bill Bovingdon: seeing as a potential damage to our entire industry is 106 00:06:12,529 --> 00:06:15,140 Bill Bovingdon: a tightening up. And we've seen the EU come in 107 00:06:15,140 --> 00:06:21,500 Bill Bovingdon: with their anti greenwashing rules, sustainable finance disclosure regulations. And 108 00:06:21,500 --> 00:06:25,849 Bill Bovingdon: what that's done is it's actually declassified I think it's 109 00:06:25,850 --> 00:06:29,060 Bill Bovingdon: about two trillion dollars worth of funds which had been 110 00:06:29,390 --> 00:06:33,860 Bill Bovingdon: nominated as ESG and have had to resile from those claims. 111 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,370 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Bill. We'll be back in a minute. 112 00:06:41,060 --> 00:06:44,300 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Bill Bovingdon, Chief Investment Officer 113 00:06:44,300 --> 00:06:47,810 Sean Aylmer: of Altius Asset Management. So the question, of course, for 114 00:06:47,810 --> 00:06:51,650 Sean Aylmer: an investor is whether the return is the same or 115 00:06:51,650 --> 00:06:54,500 Sean Aylmer: higher or lower. Am I compromising on return when I'm 116 00:06:54,500 --> 00:06:55,820 Sean Aylmer: going into a green bond fund? 117 00:06:56,540 --> 00:06:59,599 Bill Bovingdon: Look in bonds and in general, there's a good body 118 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,419 Bill Bovingdon: of work out there which has shown that investments with 119 00:07:02,420 --> 00:07:06,340 Bill Bovingdon: an ESG or green angle have performed really well. And 120 00:07:06,350 --> 00:07:08,210 Bill Bovingdon: I guess that's been a function of the fact that 121 00:07:08,210 --> 00:07:12,410 Bill Bovingdon: there's been some challenges in fossil fuel industries and clearly 122 00:07:12,410 --> 00:07:16,430 Bill Bovingdon: in a lot of risk in activities like gambling, where 123 00:07:16,670 --> 00:07:19,130 Bill Bovingdon: we've seen what's happened to Crown and so forth. So 124 00:07:19,430 --> 00:07:23,210 Bill Bovingdon: it does I guess that extra layer of risk management and 125 00:07:23,210 --> 00:07:28,850 Bill Bovingdon: a focus upon both environmental and social risks to an 126 00:07:28,850 --> 00:07:33,560 Bill Bovingdon: organisation does really, particularly in the context of a bond portfolio, 127 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,040 Bill Bovingdon: which are defensive assets with an asymmetric risk profile, you 128 00:07:37,220 --> 00:07:40,130 Bill Bovingdon: get your interest or you lose all your money. That 129 00:07:40,130 --> 00:07:44,750 Bill Bovingdon: extra level of scrutiny that comes from doing ESG assessment 130 00:07:45,380 --> 00:07:48,980 Bill Bovingdon: stands investors in good stead. And there's lots of studies, 131 00:07:48,980 --> 00:07:52,130 Bill Bovingdon: particularly in deeper markets like Europe and the US, where 132 00:07:52,130 --> 00:07:56,630 Bill Bovingdon: they've looked at long term assessments of bond markets and 133 00:07:56,630 --> 00:08:00,860 Bill Bovingdon: then sorted them for good ESG and bad ESG performance. 134 00:08:01,130 --> 00:08:06,470 Bill Bovingdon: And definitely, the ESG portfolios have performed as well if 135 00:08:06,470 --> 00:08:09,980 Bill Bovingdon: not better than the market as a whole. And we 136 00:08:09,980 --> 00:08:13,640 Bill Bovingdon: found that with our sustainable bond fund, it's based on 137 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,180 Bill Bovingdon: our long standing Altius Bond Fund, which has been running 138 00:08:17,180 --> 00:08:21,620 Bill Bovingdon: since 2011 and has an absolute return style. And both 139 00:08:21,620 --> 00:08:25,340 Bill Bovingdon: portfolios are managed to exactly the same strategy and the 140 00:08:25,340 --> 00:08:29,860 Bill Bovingdon: sustainable bond fund it has actually outperformed its regular cousin. 141 00:08:29,870 --> 00:08:32,840 Bill Bovingdon: So that's like a little bit of a lab experiment 142 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,720 Bill Bovingdon: that many managers are able to do. And it does 143 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:41,210 Bill Bovingdon: really show that sustainable and ESG investment doesn't compromise on returns. 144 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,640 Bill Bovingdon: And indeed, we've just passed one year on our green 145 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,580 Bill Bovingdon: bond fund and it's one per cent ahead of its 146 00:08:46,580 --> 00:08:51,470 Bill Bovingdon: underlying composite bond index, which is its benchmark. And clearly, 147 00:08:51,590 --> 00:08:55,550 Bill Bovingdon: that has no restrictions with respect to activities. So, again, 148 00:08:55,910 --> 00:08:58,880 Bill Bovingdon: that's a good sign that the performance is still there 149 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,839 Bill Bovingdon: in these funds and you are hitting the extra objective 150 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,000 Bill Bovingdon: of being a responsible investor. 151 00:09:05,210 --> 00:09:08,240 Sean Aylmer: It just seems to me that from a consumer perspective, 152 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,469 Sean Aylmer: government perspective definitely, regulator perspective, there's a weight of money 153 00:09:12,470 --> 00:09:16,579 Sean Aylmer: going into green investing in a sense, which means you 154 00:09:16,580 --> 00:09:18,590 Sean Aylmer: almost have to be part of it lest you be 155 00:09:18,590 --> 00:09:19,309 Sean Aylmer: left behind. 156 00:09:19,730 --> 00:09:22,970 Bill Bovingdon: It is a really fast growing market and a really 157 00:09:23,330 --> 00:09:28,130 Bill Bovingdon: exciting area. We're seeing innovation in this area all the time. 158 00:09:28,130 --> 00:09:32,150 Bill Bovingdon: We just saw Wesfarmers come to the market with Australia's 159 00:09:32,150 --> 00:09:36,860 Bill Bovingdon: first sustainably linked bond. And the idea behind that is 160 00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:40,939 Bill Bovingdon: not to make it tied to a specific project, but 161 00:09:40,940 --> 00:09:46,640 Bill Bovingdon: to set up some commitments or KPIs that Wesfarmers have 162 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:51,380 Bill Bovingdon: to deliver on where they basically will get a penalty 163 00:09:51,590 --> 00:09:55,370 Bill Bovingdon: increase in the interest they pay on their bonds if 164 00:09:55,370 --> 00:09:57,589 Bill Bovingdon: they don't meet those objectives. 165 00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:59,990 Sean Aylmer: Wow. That's putting your money where your mouth is. 166 00:10:00,950 --> 00:10:04,939 Bill Bovingdon: Correct. It is. And they're meaningful objectives as well. So their 167 00:10:04,940 --> 00:10:09,950 Bill Bovingdon: first KPI was that they were looking to source 100 168 00:10:09,950 --> 00:10:14,750 Bill Bovingdon: per cent of their energy for their retail businesses by 2025. 169 00:10:15,500 --> 00:10:16,550 Sean Aylmer: Through renewables? 170 00:10:16,550 --> 00:10:20,780 Bill Bovingdon: Through renewables. Yes, exactly. And for the second KPI was 171 00:10:20,780 --> 00:10:25,520 Bill Bovingdon: around the ammonium nitrate in their fertiliser businesses and other businesses, 172 00:10:25,850 --> 00:10:29,870 Bill Bovingdon: even with any acquisitions and growth in their portfolio to 173 00:10:29,870 --> 00:10:33,020 Bill Bovingdon: keep that at a world best level. So both of 174 00:10:33,020 --> 00:10:35,420 Bill Bovingdon: those things, you know, the sort of market took as 175 00:10:35,420 --> 00:10:38,839 Bill Bovingdon: being really positive from an ESG point of view, but 176 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,480 Bill Bovingdon: also the fact that if they didn't meet them, their 177 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,699 Bill Bovingdon: coupon would step up by up to a quarter of 178 00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:47,180 Bill Bovingdon: a per cent. That really just shows some. Yes. 179 00:10:47,179 --> 00:10:47,719 Sean Aylmer: Commitment. 180 00:10:48,410 --> 00:10:50,720 Bill Bovingdon: A fair bit of commitment and confidence that they will 181 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,110 Bill Bovingdon: meet their objectives. 182 00:10:52,940 --> 00:10:55,580 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. So just finally, who are the investors investing in the 183 00:10:55,580 --> 00:10:57,770 Sean Aylmer: Green Bond Fund? Is it set up for not for 184 00:10:57,770 --> 00:11:00,170 Sean Aylmer: profits or is it the smaller super funds? Who is 185 00:11:00,170 --> 00:11:01,730 Sean Aylmer: it that really want to get into the fund? 186 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,720 Bill Bovingdon: Yeah, look, it's across the spectrum. So the fund was launched, 187 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,520 Bill Bovingdon: as I said, a bit over a year ago. And 188 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,730 Bill Bovingdon: the cornerstone investors at that time was the Clean Energy 189 00:11:10,730 --> 00:11:14,480 Bill Bovingdon: Finance Corporation. So the federal government's green bank, as they're 190 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,990 Bill Bovingdon: often referred to, and they really want to support this 191 00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:20,059 Bill Bovingdon: fund and this initiative because they saw it as a 192 00:11:20,059 --> 00:11:24,679 Bill Bovingdon: great way to basically create more focus on this as 193 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,730 Bill Bovingdon: a really important sector of the Australian sustainable finance market 194 00:11:28,730 --> 00:11:32,240 Bill Bovingdon: and debt markets in general. And they wanted to kind 195 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,660 Bill Bovingdon: of democratise, if you like, access to this market because 196 00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:40,100 Bill Bovingdon: it had traditionally been tied up with big super funds 197 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:44,439 Bill Bovingdon: and also large insurance companies who would buy these bonds 198 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,079 Bill Bovingdon: at primary issuance and then just sit on them. They 199 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,510 Bill Bovingdon: didn't come back into the secondary market, so it's very 200 00:11:49,510 --> 00:11:55,330 Bill Bovingdon: difficult for charities, not for profits, high net worths, small 201 00:11:55,330 --> 00:11:58,540 Bill Bovingdon: super funds and so forth to get access to green bonds. 202 00:11:58,550 --> 00:12:01,600 Bill Bovingdon: So our portfolio is a way for that to happen. 203 00:12:01,870 --> 00:12:05,110 Bill Bovingdon: And Crestone Wealth are one of the foundation investors in 204 00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:08,050 Bill Bovingdon: that as well. And clearly, they have a lot of 205 00:12:08,290 --> 00:12:12,670 Bill Bovingdon: both not for profits, charities, high net worth clients amongst 206 00:12:12,670 --> 00:12:16,210 Bill Bovingdon: their advisor base, and that allows their investors to get 207 00:12:16,210 --> 00:12:20,920 Bill Bovingdon: access to our fund. And just recently, we welcomed non-Government 208 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,550 Bill Bovingdon: Schools Super Fund as the first industry fund that's also 209 00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:28,160 Bill Bovingdon: started investing into the fund. So the Green Bond Fund 210 00:12:28,300 --> 00:12:31,540 Bill Bovingdon: is now available to retail investors with as little as 211 00:12:31,540 --> 00:12:34,750 Bill Bovingdon: five thousand dollars. So for everyday investors who want to 212 00:12:34,750 --> 00:12:38,920 Bill Bovingdon: use part of their defensive assets in an impactful way, 213 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,520 Bill Bovingdon: this is allowing, I guess, that whole range of investors 214 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,199 Bill Bovingdon: to be involved in the green bond market. 215 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,780 Sean Aylmer: It's kind of interesting. My 19 year old suddenly wants 216 00:12:46,780 --> 00:12:49,240 Sean Aylmer: to invest. Now he's probably talking shares more than bonds. 217 00:12:49,570 --> 00:12:52,660 Sean Aylmer: But when we're talking about how you might invest in 218 00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:57,040 Sean Aylmer: equities or other places, he actually talks about the need 219 00:12:57,220 --> 00:13:00,069 Sean Aylmer: for the investment to be making a difference, which I 220 00:13:00,070 --> 00:13:01,900 Sean Aylmer: when I was 19, that's the last thing I was 221 00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:02,480 Sean Aylmer: thinking of. 222 00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:03,070 Bill Bovingdon: Yes. 223 00:13:03,070 --> 00:13:04,360 Sean Aylmer: But he is thinking of that. 224 00:13:04,370 --> 00:13:06,730 Bill Bovingdon: You are so right. That's the feedback we get from 225 00:13:06,730 --> 00:13:09,640 Bill Bovingdon: a lot of super funds that their cohort is breaking 226 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,730 Bill Bovingdon: up in terms of engagement. There's the highest engagement are 227 00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:17,050 Bill Bovingdon: for those about to retire and those just coming into 228 00:13:17,050 --> 00:13:19,840 Bill Bovingdon: the fund who say, okay, I'm not going to see 229 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,110 Bill Bovingdon: this money for 30 years, but I'd like to know 230 00:13:23,110 --> 00:13:26,319 Bill Bovingdon: that it's doing something worthwhile in the meantime. So your 231 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,840 Bill Bovingdon: son's attitude perfectly illustrates that. 232 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:30,880 Sean Aylmer: Bill, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 233 00:13:31,179 --> 00:13:32,620 Bill Bovingdon: Absolutely. My pleasure. 234 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,870 Sean Aylmer: That was Bill Bovingdon, Chief Investment Officer of Altius Asset Management. 235 00:13:37,090 --> 00:13:39,069 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join me 236 00:13:39,070 --> 00:13:41,709 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast with 237 00:13:41,710 --> 00:13:44,550 Sean Aylmer: all the business news you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer. 238 00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:45,460 Sean Aylmer: Enjoy your day.