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Speaker 1: From the newsroom and new still come to me. Good

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Speaker 1: day there, I'm Andrew Bucklow, and listen. One of the

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Speaker 1: things I love about my job is that I get

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Speaker 1: to learn so many fun facts about so many random topics.

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Speaker 1: For example, the majority of Ozzie's have a day off

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Speaker 1: today for the King's Birthday, but not those in Queensland

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Speaker 1: or WA. Why great question. Well, since twenty sixteen, Queenslanders

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Speaker 1: have been celebrating it on the first Monday in October.

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Speaker 1: That's because they don't have many public holidays later in

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Speaker 1: the year, and in WA they celebrated in September because

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Speaker 1: they only had a public holiday last week. But Western

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Speaker 1: Australia Day. There you go. I'm going to keep the

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Speaker 1: fun facts coming for you in this episode Today, where

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Speaker 1: can I find out where some famous sayings come from?

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Speaker 1: It's raining, cats and dogs, throw the baby out with

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Speaker 1: the bath water, cat, got your tongue getting cold feet?

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Speaker 1: We all say, But where and how did they begin?

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Speaker 1: You're about to find out. Mark Gwyn is a senior

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Speaker 1: researcher at the A and U Dictionary, and as part

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Speaker 1: of his work, he traces the history of words and phrases.

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Speaker 1: Now I recorded this interview with him for a different

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Speaker 1: news dot com dot Au podcast, but it was so

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Speaker 1: much fun that I've decided to share it with you

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Speaker 1: today on from the newsroom. The first one that I'm

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Speaker 1: hoping you can tell me the origin of the phrase

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Speaker 1: is to turn a blind eye.

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Speaker 2: Well, this one is reported to be from the Admiral

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Speaker 2: Horatio Nelson, who apparently lifted a telescope to his blind

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Speaker 2: eye at the Battle of Copenhagen in eighteen oh one,

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Speaker 2: thus not seeing the signal, and so then he continue

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Speaker 2: on with the fight because he wanted to fight.

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Speaker 3: Now, that sounds like a.

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Speaker 2: Good story, but the problem is we've got evidence from

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Speaker 2: a couple hundred years before that in the form to

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Speaker 2: turn the deaf, fear and the blind eye, So that

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Speaker 2: story about the admiral is probably a fake one.

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Speaker 1: Well, that is disappointing. Let's move on to another one.

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Speaker 1: When people aren't feeling well, we often say they're under

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Speaker 1: the weather?

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Speaker 4: Are you under the weather?

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Speaker 1: Where does that come from?

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Speaker 3: Well, it looks like.

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Speaker 2: That one might be a naval term and refers to

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Speaker 2: when sailors were sick not feeling that great, they were

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Speaker 2: sent down under deck, essentially to keep them out of

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Speaker 2: the weather. And hopefully to see if they got any better.

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Speaker 2: We're not one hundred percent certain that that's where the

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Speaker 2: origin comes from, but clearly, you know, getting someone if

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Speaker 2: you're out in the weather, it's not a very nice

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Speaker 2: experience if the weather's bad. So you can see where

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Speaker 2: that expression, you know, probably comes from.

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Speaker 1: We often say it's raining cats and dogs. It's raining

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Speaker 1: cats and dogs. Now, dear, what's the origin of that?

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Speaker 3: Saying, well, this goes back.

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Speaker 2: Our first evidence goes back to a play in the

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Speaker 2: sixteen fifties, actually, and the evidence there was there was

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Speaker 2: dogs and dogs and pole cats, raining dogs and pole cats,

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Speaker 2: and then we get a lot of raining dogs and

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Speaker 2: cats and various forms like that. It's not really until

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Speaker 2: Jonathan Swift, the satirist in the seventeen thirties, get the

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Speaker 2: actual you know, it's raining cats and dogs. There's nothing

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Speaker 2: really strange. It's just the idea of just a metaphor

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Speaker 2: for a very heavy downpour. I mean, stories about cats

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Speaker 2: and dogs sort of floating down the street after a downfall.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a bit apocryphal, but so it's just

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Speaker 2: just a metaphor.

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Speaker 1: You know, years ago I heard this story, which is

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Speaker 1: obviously not true that back in the olden days, the

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Speaker 1: dogs and cats weren't allowed to sleep in the homes,

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Speaker 1: so they would sleep on the roofs of buildings because

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Speaker 1: they were warm, heated by the fires inside. And then

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Speaker 1: of course it would rain, and so the cats and

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Speaker 1: dogs would slide off the roofs. So I'm so disappointed

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Speaker 1: to find out that's not true.

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Speaker 3: I don't think there's a few variations on that plane.

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Speaker 3: That's a nog spailing out of the sky.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: When we go out and we have a big one,

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Speaker 1: people often say that we're going to paint the town red.

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Speaker 1: The world is your oyster, kick up your heels, pick

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Speaker 1: the town red. Where does that come from?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's one classic story for this one, and the

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Speaker 2: more elaborate and more interesting these stories, they're more likely.

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Speaker 3: It's probably not the true origin.

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Speaker 2: But in this situation, there's this English nobleman by the

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Speaker 2: name of the Marquis of Waterford, and apparently he was

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Speaker 2: with his group of disreputable friends, and they went out

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Speaker 2: after a big night out, and they were a bit drunk,

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Speaker 2: and they decided to pick up this tin of paint

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Speaker 2: which happened to be read and they painted all the

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Speaker 2: doors and all the buildings red. It's a kind of

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Speaker 2: a youthful form of vandalism. But really we don't have

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Speaker 2: evidence from that period, and later on that the evidence

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Speaker 2: is all from the US, and it's possible that it

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Speaker 2: refers to the bonfires and the fireworks of Independence Day,

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Speaker 2: So lighting up the sky with the fireworks and the bonfires,

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Speaker 2: that's a possible origin.

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Speaker 1: Now here's another one that I've heard, probably dodgy origin

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Speaker 1: from so I'm excited to hear what you've got to say.

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Speaker 1: The phrase is don't throw the baby out with the

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Speaker 1: bath water.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm waiting to hear you. But it looks like

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Speaker 2: this one. I mean, you know, again it's a metaphor.

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Speaker 2: But the evidence that I have is that it actually

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Speaker 2: comes from a German phrase, DA's dem barde or shouldn't,

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Speaker 2: which basically means to empty out the baby with the

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Speaker 2: bath and that's from the early fifteen hundreds, and then

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Speaker 2: that gets picked up later. Is quite a few of

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Speaker 2: these expressions do they come into English fire other languages

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Speaker 2: like Latin or Greek, French for example, And so this

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Speaker 2: one looks like it's coming from German.

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Speaker 3: Now, not one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: Sure what the German. You know the Germans. It's just

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Speaker 2: a proverb basically. So I'm interested to see what your

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Speaker 2: origin is.

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Speaker 1: Well, I heard that a couple of hundred years ago,

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Speaker 1: all the families were living together and they would all

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Speaker 1: share a bath, but it would go in order of

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Speaker 1: oldest to youngest, So the dad would take the bath first,

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Speaker 1: and then the mom and then the eldest kid. And

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Speaker 1: by the time that the baby would have a bath,

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Speaker 1: the bath water was actually filthy. So I heard that

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Speaker 1: the origin of that was when they're tipping out the

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Speaker 1: bath water make sure the baby's not lost in there.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I've heard that. I've just excised it from my mind.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe I've got another one wrong. All right,

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Speaker 1: let's move on to show your true colors. Where does

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Speaker 1: that come from?

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so this one, it's got another.

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Speaker 2: Naval stories, a lot of naval stories that come into expressions.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what we reach for when we don't

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Speaker 2: know where something's come from. And the idea here is

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Speaker 2: that it's the flags. The colors are the flags that

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Speaker 2: go up on the ships to identify the ship where

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Speaker 2: it comes from, or your regiment. And in this situation,

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Speaker 2: pirates would put up a false flag, and so when

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Speaker 2: they came up closed, then you know who you had

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Speaker 2: their true colors.

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Speaker 3: But really color colors used in lots of.

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Speaker 2: Different ways, and there's an early use of color meaning

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Speaker 2: you know someone's character or disposition, their nature. So that's

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Speaker 2: a common sense of color back in the thirteen hundreds

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Speaker 2: and fourteen hundreds. And when we get a little bit later,

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Speaker 2: we get this expression to show your true colors. Often

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Speaker 2: it's someone that's showing their bad disposition that's probably coming

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Speaker 2: from that one of those senses of color that means

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Speaker 2: your character or nature.

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Speaker 1: All right, Mark, Gwen, I know that this is one

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Speaker 1: of your personal favorites. The phrase is still your thunder.

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Speaker 1: What's the backstory here?

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Speaker 2: Well, this one again is an interesting story and looks unlikely,

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Speaker 2: but I think in this case it's actually true. And

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Speaker 2: in this one, there was a play put on by

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Speaker 2: English dramatist John Dennis, and this play came out in

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Speaker 2: seventeen oh nine, and by all accounts it was a

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Speaker 2: bit of a dud. But what it did actually have

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Speaker 2: was this new fangled device that made the sound of thunder,

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Speaker 2: so it simulated the noise. It was a sound effect

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Speaker 2: essentially and so it obviously didn't save the play. But

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Speaker 2: later on, just you know, a few weeks Shakespeare's Macbeth

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Speaker 2: was playing up the road there in London, and guess

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Speaker 2: what the thunder machine was being used in this play.

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Speaker 2: And apparently mister John Dennis said Dan, and they will

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Speaker 2: not let my play run, but they steal my thunder.

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Speaker 1: How good is that one. We've got more origins of

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Speaker 1: famous sayings coming up in just a moment. Welcome back.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Mark Gwinn, a senior researcher of the

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Speaker 1: A and U Dictionary Center, revealing the origin of famous

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Speaker 1: sayings to spill the beans? Where does that come from?

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, this is another example of there's the story

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Speaker 2: and then there's probably something of a bit more boring

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Speaker 2: and pros ache about where it came from.

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Speaker 3: And one of the best.

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Speaker 2: All of the most common explanations for this is that

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Speaker 2: these beans were used in the ancient Greek voting system,

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Speaker 2: and you've voted with white beans for yes and black

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Speaker 2: beans for no.

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Speaker 4: And at the end of the day you spilled this

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Speaker 4: jar over all the beans.

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Speaker 3: And your count who would want? Now? Again, the evidence

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Speaker 3: is in the US, and there's no link with the.

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Speaker 2: Ancient Greek practice, So it looks like there's some other

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Speaker 2: explanation here. And what we know, spilled, meaning to divulge

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Speaker 2: a secret or to give something up, has been around

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Speaker 2: for a very long time, so yeah, probably not the

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Speaker 2: ancient Greek story.

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Speaker 1: Another popular saying is barking up the wrong tree. Oh honey,

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Speaker 1: you're so barking up the wrong tree right now. Really,

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Speaker 1: what's the origin of that?

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Speaker 2: Well, this one, we're pretty sure is it's another US

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Speaker 2: originally US form, and really it's about hunting dogs barking

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Speaker 2: under literally barking under.

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Speaker 4: The wrong tree.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're run after some raccoon or something, some

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Speaker 2: American opossum or something, and they've just they've missed, they've

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Speaker 2: missed the boat there, and they've they've gone the wrong tree,

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Speaker 2: and they're barking there.

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Speaker 4: And the damn animals up some other trees.

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Speaker 2: So that's that seems to be the story.

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Speaker 4: Then I think we can trust that one.

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Speaker 1: Your tongue, cat got your tongue? What's the origin of that?

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Speaker 2: This one, again has got some interesting stories, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I think we all know now when they're too interesting

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Speaker 2: that they're probably not right.

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Speaker 3: But this one is interesting.

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Speaker 2: The fact that a lot of people think that it

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Speaker 2: comes from the Cat of nine Tales, which are shortened

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Speaker 2: to cat.

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Speaker 4: Was that that whip? You know? I think you know,

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Speaker 4: people think about the navy in the.

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Speaker 2: Eighteenth century, people getting whipped, the convicts getting whiped with

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Speaker 2: that Cat of nine Tales. Now, the story there is

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Speaker 2: that if you got whipped, you were either in shock

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Speaker 2: or you were you know, you're a bit sort of annoying.

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Speaker 2: You're sitting out there in the corner, and your fellow

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Speaker 2: sailors come up. As they do, they say, oh, why

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Speaker 2: aren't you Talking's the cat got your tongue, you know,

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Speaker 2: being very teasing and mean after someone's just have.

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Speaker 4: The whip applied to the back.

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Speaker 3: That really, I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: And then then there's a story about in ancient Egypt

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Speaker 2: that liars were punished by their tongues being cut out

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Speaker 2: and fed to cats. So that's that's a little bit

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Speaker 2: more extreme. And then there's the witches. The witches come

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Speaker 2: into as well with their with their little pet black

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Speaker 2: cats are stealing the tongues of unsuspecting victims.

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Speaker 1: Now, when some people get married, they get the jitters

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Speaker 1: on the morning of the big day and they say

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Speaker 1: that they get cold.

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Speaker 3: Feet, Monica gets cold fit.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to marriage every it's going.

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Speaker 3: To be okay.

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Speaker 1: So where does the saying cold feet come from?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a hard one to trace.

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Speaker 2: I think what we've got going on here is that

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Speaker 2: notion that if you pour and you kind afford shoes,

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Speaker 2: you'll get cold feet. And I think what we've seen

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Speaker 2: is that some of the early evidence goes back to

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Speaker 2: German German expressions where it may actually refer to a

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Speaker 2: financial or abetting situation where you think you lose the

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Speaker 2: nerve to put that extra bed on, and so the

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Speaker 2: idea there is if you go ahead with that financial commitment,

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Speaker 2: your mind end up losing your shoes and you'll.

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Speaker 4: Get cold feet.

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Speaker 3: That seems to be the story.

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Speaker 2: There's a few different expressions to do with coal feet,

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Speaker 2: but it seems to be something to do with money

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Speaker 2: originally and that sense that, yeah, you'll be left without shoes.

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Speaker 3: So that's probably where it comes from.

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Speaker 1: Mark Gwinn, thank you so much for telling us the

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Speaker 1: origin of some of these popular sayings. I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Thanks mate, Thank you so much for listening. If you're

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Speaker 1: enjoying a public holiday today. I hope you are having

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Speaker 1: a blast. Maybe your three sheets to the wind right now. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that would have been a good saying to ask him

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Speaker 1: about the origin of Oh well, I'll do it next

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Speaker 1: time I catch you on the flip side. That's another

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Speaker 1: one so many follow us subscribe to from the newsroom

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.