WEBVTT - Episode 8: Mea Culpa 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.680 Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwin contains course 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.840 language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:43.080 you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian News. 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:49.120 You can Trust Opinions that matter. Now Ben Fordham comments. 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.559 And now we have the bombshell witness statement from the 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.840 retired nurse Judy Seeing describing what looked like a body 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:57.120 in the back of a car. 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.240 The country's leading commercial radio broadcast to Ben Fordham has 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.800 been following the Bromwyn Winfield case. We've got good history. 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.760 Ben's dad, the late Great John Fordham, was a giant 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:13.000 in the media and he took me under his wing 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:15.800 when I was a young newspaper reporter thirty five years 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:20.960 ago during the Teacher's pat investigation in twenty eighteen, when 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:25.320 John and Ben saw the injustice in Lynn's case, they 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.160 pulled strings at the highest levels to ensure that it 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:32.280 got the full attention of Mick Fuller, the then commissioner 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:36.840 of the New South Wales Police Force. Ben played snippets 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.520 of Judy Singh's interview with me on his top rating program. 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.280 Was it possible for you to actually identify him as 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:45.800 John Winfield when you. 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.880 Looked in, Oh yeah, was he definitely him? 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:54.040 Judy felt suspicious, but she didn't immediately act on it. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.480 In the days that followed, she didn't know Bronwin was missing, 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.200 but when rumors started spreading that on when had disappeared, 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.560 Judy says she knew she had to tell someone. She 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:06.520 says she went to Ballona police. 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:10.120 I talked to the ballon and police first, and they 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:12.040 took me behind the counter. 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.640 Did you form an impression then of how seriously or 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:18.760 not they were taking it? 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:19.880 Hardly? Interested? 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:20.840 Hardly? 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:23.640 I can't understand why that would be. 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:29.000 Almost had to beg them to let me say something. 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:31.840 Did you feel better for having disclosed these things? 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:32.760 Now? 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.920 No, he died recently, so and I'm taking this to 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:38.400 the grave. 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.880 Always some relief when you can get something out, you know. 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:51.200 What's becoming clear is that the early investigation into Bronman's 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.680 disappearance was not handled properly. Police were too quick to 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.240 believe the storyline that a mother of two had just 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.720 packed up and left and walked down on her children. 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.560 Then also told his vast audience a truth which might 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:10.400 surprise listeners. He revealed that the Bromwin podcast investigation. 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.919 Has been running for one month and in that time 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:16.400 he's not been contacted by anyone at New South Wales Police. 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:19.200 Nobody's reached out to him to see if he's uncovered 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:23.239 new information. Nobody's checked to see if maybe, just maybe 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.680 he's found evidence that could solve the mystery of who 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.799 could have killed Bronwin or what happened to her. It's 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:34.240 been radio silence, no calls, no emails, no inquiries, nothing 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:36.720 and that should change today. 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:42.120 But at seven twenty pm on Thursday June twenty, a 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:46.360 couple of hours after the release of episode seven, Assistant 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:51.080 Commissioner of Police Mick Fitzgerald emailed to request contact details 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:56.360 for retired nurse Judy Singh. I immediately shared those details 0:03:56.480 --> 0:04:00.480 with Fitzgerald. Detectives are going to be spending so time 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.760 with Judy Singh. Finally they should take a statement from her. 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:07.600 Ben Fordham had the last word. 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.440 Well done, Mick Fitzgerald, and I'll keep you updated on 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:12.000 this case. 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:17.880 On the Nine Networks Today show, host Karl Stefanovic talked 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.640 to Madison Walsh, Bromwin's second cousin, who has been on 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.960 this case with me since the start of the podcast. Madison, 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:27.279 your family's been watching this. 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:32.159 Yeah, for thirty one years. We have had no real 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:36.760 movement within this case. Nothing's happened, and our family has 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:37.640 felt lost. 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:39.600 What is that? That must be torture? 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.440 Oh, look, it's it's hard. I mean I didn't know 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:48.679 brom when she disappeared ten years before I was born. However, 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.720 I've grown up with it. I've witnessed what my family 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.719 has gone through. I know what they're still going through. 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.919 Last night, when the episode released where this new information 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.159 and came out, they didn't know about it, and it 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.599 was both confronting and raw to witness that and to 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:10.000 see how much that affected them, because at this stage 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:12.600 you don't think that anything more would come out. 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:13.320 How are they? 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:14.800 They're good. 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:19.440 This is motivating for them as well, because this is 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.320 something new, something that the police can hopefully use now 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:24.599 to finally do something nice. 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:26.560 To see Mats and all the best of the family. 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.800 Just twelve hours earlier, Maddie sat with Bromman's brother Andy 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.200 Reid and his wife Michelle in their home in the Shire. 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.159 She drove there to answer their questions and help them 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.360 listen as Jude sings account of what she saw was 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:46.560 played through episode seven. Andy and Michelle heard it for 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:51.400 the first time as the episode unfolded. Here's Maddie who 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:53.720 used her iPhone to make a recording. 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.840 It's all very, very hard to listen to, that's for sure. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:05.400 That unbelievable that this poor lady's had to live with that. Yeah, 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:07.839 it's breast keys up. Then she's going to take it 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:08.480 to a grave. 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:13.960 If you were going to bed, why would you have 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:15.040 your surfboard in the car? 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.000 Well, that's what I was thinking, And then there was 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.280 like maybe he paddled out or something. 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.880 Murray used to say to me all the time, every 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.440 time there's massive floods in the hinterland. Murray used to 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.680 fedigm religiously, religiously. He used to tell me about how 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.160 he used to he watched for the news reports, always 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.680 watching the news. I think her body's going to turn up. Yeah, 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:39.440 it flushed out in one of the estuaries. 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.400 I remember. Glenn used to say to me, mate, do 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:43.720 you never know what will turn up? 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.200 Michelle read aloud a message that she had just received 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:52.440 from the retired detective sergeant Glenn Taylor, who began a 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.760 thorough police investigation in nineteen ninety eight. 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:03.560 He's just said it quite stunning news coming out of 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:07.680 what a witness saw apparently on the night of Broman's disappearance, 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.560 and I said, yeah, we're listening to it as we speak. 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:15.640 We are shattered, but hopeful. 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.239 It doesn't even feel like belief because we've just knowned 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.600 for so long that the vastard did something that night. 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.880 The systems just filed for so long. 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.760 Shortly before the release of the very first episode in 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.800 this podcast series, and he met with detectives led by 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.640 Nigel Warren of the Unsolved Homicide Unit, and here to 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.160 remind you is a bit from episode one. 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:44.960 Basically said, well, their hands are tied. 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:47.480 We can't do any more than what we've done. 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.480 And we don't have any new evidence as it steds. 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:55.000 Yeah, okay, he said, going Look, I cannot apologize enough 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.880 for how badly the original investigation was handled. 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.960 They've got no intention of puting any more work into it. 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:09.360 When you walked away with Michelle from that meeting six 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:13.800 weeks ago, what was your view of what they were 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.160 doing on the Roman police investigation. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.760 Nothing? Nothing unless someone came forward. 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:22.200 Unless there was something more to add. 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:27.600 He mentioned to me that they had twenty six open cases, 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:34.000 so there's twenty five poor people out there that. 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.559 Are worse off than we are because we've quit. 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:42.440 You given what you know, Now, what do you want 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:43.120 them to do? 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.320 They need to go and speak to Juty get correct 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.360 statements like they should have done the first two times 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.840 she went there. The poor woman in ninety three, the 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:59.080 only night that he had access to that vehicle. Wow, wow, 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:00.760 like to meet her. 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:02.120 Thank you. 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:04.240 Have you seen the video? 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:04.880 Yes? 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.240 Yeah, that's pretty hard to look at. 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:09.400 I'm sorry. 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:14.040 Michelle always knew something went wrong that night, but we 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.360 never really had the proof as hard as we did. 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:17.120 Push diskin. 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.480 Maddie and I were in the Tuong Public Library and 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:27.400 Brisbane and interviewing Mel Taylor, Devin Murray's daughter. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:29.360 She worked nearby. 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.040 She came and saw us after she finished work and 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:37.760 Mel was just describing what she saw as a twelve 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.720 year old going through that house mate. She's the only 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:46.480 person that remembers this bedstrip The beds were stripped of 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:47.840 their sheets. 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.319 Yeah, I've never heard of that until Mel said it. 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.160 What I think it shows is that even twelve year 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.480 old kids should be interviewed by cops. Would Bromwin have 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:02.600 let the children sleep in a stripped bed? 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:04.280 That is a bed without sheets. 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:05.120 Never. 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:12.280 Crystal says in her statement that Lauren woke up and 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.840 went in and found a mum crying in the bedroom 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.880 and then her mum said, come on, darling, go back 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.320 to bed or whatever, and she went and tucked her. 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:22.160 In and said, I'll see you in the morning. 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.920 Yeah, So you don't tuck someone in if there's no bedding. 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.040 How did Judy present to you? 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:32.199 From what she said? 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:38.600 And Kerry, Oh, totally one hundred percent telling the truth. 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.080 Why would anyone make that up. 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:47.720 She's seeing something on the night that nobody. 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:48.520 Else knew about. 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:53.240 There's no reason for them to fabricate anything that we've 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:53.880 heard tonight. 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.760 I just feel for Judy. The poor woman has gone. 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.600 At the police station twice and she's just been dis 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.360 garden and they haven't even taken us seriously on a 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:05.440 missing person's case. 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:06.880 What's wrong with these people? 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:12.280 I thought she was really authentic because she could be 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:14.640 the key to solve. 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:15.920 Him what happened. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:23.280 We're very grateful, really, and we believe her wholeheartedly. 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:26.079 You can't make that sort of stuff up. 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.000 If this drive that she had witnessed was around midnight, 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.440 how does that fit with what Murray saw at ten 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.480 forty pm. What was he doing on the ten forty 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:40.120 pm trip? 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:46.000 What I'm thinking is he filled the boot with heavy things. 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:47.720 He started wiring the boot down. 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.720 Then he's got in the car and then going shit, 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:51.880 the cars nearly empty. 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:53.320 The last thing I had to do. 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.480 Is put a body in his car and it's going 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:56.319 to run out of fuel. 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.040 And on that trip, that first trip he made, was 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:03.480 trying to scope out he might put her. Got close 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.760 to petrol station, was like, I need to fill up, 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:07.720 fills up. 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.680 And then he's come back with petrol cars full of petrol. 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.439 Then goes back home and then that's when. 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:14.920 He goes down grown up with her. 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.439 Then he would have had to have come back, and 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.440 then he's come back got the kids at some stage. 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:22.320 Why do you think the surfboard would have been in 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:26.600 the car? It is an obvious question and it raises 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:31.520 mccarbre thoughts and ideas. Judy Singh is adamant that a 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.520 surfboard was lying in the car from the back seat 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.160 across to the front seat, and that something resembling a 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.679 body wrapped in a sheet was on the other side 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.920 of the back seat behind the front passenger seat. 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.000 When John flew to Ballona in the. 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:51.760 Late afternoon of Sunday, May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three. His 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:56.000 friend John Watson picked John Winfield up at the airport. 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.920 They went first to the local police station in Balin. 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.600 John went to the station to check whether there were 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.560 any orders preventing him from approaching Bromwin and the house 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:12.120 that they had lived in together until their separation. John 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:17.080 Winfield went in John Watson's car. John Watson and John 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.280 Winfield then went from the police station in Ballina to 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:24.560 pick up Jody's friend Becky McGuire, and Becky says she 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:28.600 witnessed John entering the house when Bromwin opened the front door. 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.199 A short time later, John drove Becky back to her 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.240 place in the Winfield family's Ford Falcon. 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.880 Then John returned to the house alone. 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.040 You'll hear more about John's visit to the police station 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.800 in a later episode when we look at John's record 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.520 of interview with the former police detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor. 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.240 That interview was done in nineteen ninety eight, five years 0:13:55.280 --> 0:14:00.840 after Bromwin's disappearance. If Judy sings witness account is accurate, 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:06.040 John's surfboard has gone into the car that night there 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.440 are creeks and water holes. 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:09.520 In the Lenox Head area. 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.240 John wouldn't have had a lot of time because he 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.360 had to get on the road to Sydney. He drove 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.880 through the night and arrived in the mid morning. 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:19.680 In the Shire. 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.200 Back then, it was a good nine to eleven hour 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:29.840 drive depending on conditions. Lake Ainsworth, a popular swimming and 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:33.880 picnicking place for Lenox families and visitors, is only a 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:38.720 ten minute or so drive from Sandstone Crescent. Andy has 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:42.560 speculated that the surfboard was in the car because John 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.800 needed to float Bromwin's body out into the water. 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.840 He wouldn't use the surfboard to float a body out 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:51.720 into the middle of a creek or something and then 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.720 be able to dump it off the board and then 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:55.960 come back to the house. 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:01.120 At a place such as Lake Ainsworth. In Andy's mind, 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:06.360 his sister her body has been put into a large surfboard. 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.160 Bag with weights or blocks. 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.840 Inside it, then towed by a leg rope late at 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.280 night into the still water and rolled over the side. 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:19.600 The weights would take the bag down to the murky depths. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:25.480 But it's only a theory, a speculation based on circumstantial evidence. 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:31.440 Something John vehemently denies the theory would explain the presence 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:36.000 of the surfboard. You've been through so much over the 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:40.000 last thirty one years. I know this podcast has been 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:44.880 at times pretty grueling for you because it's explored for you, Andy, 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:50.040 parts of your own personal life with your mom Barbara 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:55.400 and your stepmother Jennifer, and tensions within the family and 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.120 so on. How do you feel about the toll it 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.600 takes on you and Michelle. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:03.920 When this is unfolding. 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:06.600 That's been pretty harrowing. 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:12.400 We're strong, We're strong, and he said he understood why 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.640 Maddie and I did not tell him about Judy Singh's 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:17.640 revelations before they were published. 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:20.000 You've got to do your job. 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:24.400 Let's the podcast doesn't work if it's just a bunch 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:25.480 of leaked information. 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:26.880 I fully understand it. 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.280 Since we first sat down with you in that cafe Clovelly, 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:33.920 I've lived in here. 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.360 We are five years later, we've all got a bit 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:42.640 older made. You're going to have a tough night. I 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.240 hope you've nursed a beer through all this. 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.560 So what do you think the police's obligation is. 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:54.320 Next, they'll make a bee line for Jude. They will 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.040 want to get a statement from her. They will want 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.960 to reconstruct what she describes. They'll go to the Sandstone 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:07.159 Crescent and Granite Street. They'll run cars past that house 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.399 at night with the light on in the car at 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.040 a slow speed that she described. They'll put something in 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.760 the back of the car so that that can be filmed, 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.240 and they'll film what they can see. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.480 They'll do all of those sorts of tests. 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:27.359 But if they're satisfied that what she described is plausible, 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.199 they'll then have to make a further submission to the 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:36.360 Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. Andy and I 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.080 spoke about why people like Judy Singh came forward and 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:44.320 how podcasts were like a vacuum cleaner that is drawing 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:49.760 up so many potential new leads, tips from people, sources 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.320 coming out of the woodwork, and the reluctance of police 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:59.119 to engage with the same podcasts. They're territorial, they believe 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.360 that Bromin's all It's murder is their murder. 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:03.720 And they don't like intruders. 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.920 Police are not going to be the go to for 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:12.440 people who are dissatisfied, who have been let down by 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.879 cops in the past, or who are just not going 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:20.560 to necessarily trust cops, But who are possibly going to 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.680 trust me? They just need to catch up with the 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:29.879 modern era. How many other missing murdered women have just 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:58.119 fallen through the cracks. The next day we heard from 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:04.399 other important people in this case. Hello, Glenn Taylor, Glenn, 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:05.480 Matt Condon, how are you? 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:05.880 Oh? 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:07.240 Yeah, good Matt. 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.720 He was shocked by what he heard. 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.400 Well, you can't get much more serious to crime than 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.879 a murder, And to allegedly murder a young mother and 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.640 leave two children behind. 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:27.119 It's just a horrendous thought. I'm sure that this information 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:31.359 that's now come to light would be very much a 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.800 priority in any murder investigation. 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.720 I was actually quite stunned. We may better finally move 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:42.720 this investigation forward. I was appalled that so little had 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:46.199 been going back in ninety ninety three, and then to 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:52.720 hear this latest revelation that this witness duty had actually 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.600 come to bow on a police station and reported to 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.640 someone back in nineteen ninety three, that was just astounding. 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:00.800 And then it got worse. 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:05.520 Usually something of that absolute significant importance would have been 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.600 acted upon. It would have been an absolute priority to 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.520 have the lady attend the police station and with her 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:17.840 consent to take a statement from her, and we would 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:22.440 have some forensics come up and take some photographs about 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.920 where she was standing and how she would observe this vehicle. 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:31.680 From your perspective, is an experienced homicide detective, what sort 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:37.880 of weight is carried by this observation by Judy singher well? 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.879 Checking to make sure that the information is plausible and 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:48.320 could be corroborated by other people homicide investigations, it doesn't 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.880 matter if they're forty years old or even longer. Any 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:56.360 information further that comes out is absolutely crucial from what 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.000 Hidley has found from this lady. I mean, every single 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.600 thing that she said certainly seems plausible, and she's told 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.880 other people. It's not something that just come up as 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:10.000 a result of the podcast, but certainly when the initial 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:15.080 investigation was just so poor, We're not one person was 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:16.480 interviewed and there. 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.240 Was no formal interview of the husband, and then the 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:22.720 whole matter was just completely shelved. 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:25.200 There's red flags flying everywhere. 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:26.760 I've always had. 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:28.560 This investigation on the mind. 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.000 I mean, every time anything would come up, like any 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:36.480 human bones, fan or something, I'm always thinking, I'm hopeful 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:41.199 to the family that it might be Bromling and the 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:46.680 media plays a very vital role in investigations, especially investigations 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:50.360 that have been around for a long time, and show 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:55.480 there's potential there for people that know things about unsolved 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:57.840 longicides to come forward. 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:00.280 Back in your day, mate, there was no such thing 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:04.840 as a podcast, and suddenly you have this platform to 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:06.560 reach millions of people. 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:11.560 It's wonderful that it's an opportunity for people further to 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:12.160 come forward. 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.080 These are most serious crimes. There's never been any closure. 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:20.119 They can't go to a century and lace and failers 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:24.320 or grieve what did actually happen to bromwin Where is she? 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:29.000 The deputy state coroner, he was clearly of the view 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:30.399 that in. 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:35.280 A diutable offense, namely murder had been committed and there 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:37.400 was a known person responsible. 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:40.000 This is after hearing all the evidence out of a 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:42.840 week and numerous numerous documents. 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:46.920 Statements be intended, but obviously we didn't have a statement 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:51.600 from this new witness duty at the time. It's important 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:56.280 that senior Coroner believe that there was sufficient evidence to 0:22:56.320 --> 0:23:00.480 warrant the DPP considering a charge of murder being laid 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:05.480 against mister Winfield. Mister Winfield's obviously got the presumption of innocence. 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:08.320 That's there's further developments. 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:14.160 Here's Bromlin's half sister, Kim Marshall, who is in Hobart, Tasmania. 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:19.520 Kim has been doing it tough. Maddie's recording this call. 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:25.200 Just say though, okay, probably nearly midnight, I decided said 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:31.080 I'd listened to it, felt very saddened and heartbroken. I 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:34.639 was beside myself, and then I did try to ring 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:38.040 one or two people, but when I did try to 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:40.359 talk to them, that made me burst into tears because 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:43.960 I don't like being needy. So I had a big 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:47.800 cry with Andrea and then pulled herself together and listened 0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:48.640 to the rest of it. 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:54.439 Do you form a view of Julie's credibility veracity of 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:55.359 what she was saying? 0:23:56.680 --> 0:24:01.439 Yes, most definitely she was aware of her environ so 0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:04.680 she had a physical thing going on watching a car, 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:07.480 But she also had an awareness about the time of 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:10.720 the year, the time of the evening, the type of 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:16.800 fauna in her view, and also her miscarriage that she 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:20.560 was worrying about. So I believe that there's so many 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:25.840 factors there that make her recount or her witness account 0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:30.480 quite valid. But you know what, I'm actually not that 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:34.520 surprised because I always knew that there was. 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:38.400 Going to be information out there. I knew from day one. 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:42.119 That the police were not doing their job. I couldn't 0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:46.720 even get a seat with Detective Discns. I always knew 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:51.639