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Speaker 1: Approche production.

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Speaker 2: This episode contains graphic discussions of murder, cannibalism, and disturbing

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Speaker 2: psychological themes. Some listeners may find the content confronting or distressing.

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Speaker 2: Listener discretion is strongly advised. Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld.

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Speaker 2: I am Neil the Muscle comments and in this episode

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Speaker 2: I speak with Nicholas Claw, also known as the Vampire

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Speaker 2: of Paris.

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Speaker 1: I was not into what other kids were into at

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Speaker 1: the time. I was visiting graveyards, which was very bizarre.

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Speaker 1: The developed a footish around blood, so sometimes I would

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Speaker 1: steal the blood bags And what would you do with

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Speaker 1: them when you stole them and run them home and

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Speaker 1: join them? I knew exactly what I was doing. I

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Speaker 1: was justified in my logic. People were cattle and I

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Speaker 1: was an apex predator in a way. Monster is something

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Speaker 1: that's not human, right, And if you want to call

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Speaker 1: me a monster, so I don't care.

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Speaker 3: Thank you Niicle for coming on in my podcast, Secrets

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Speaker 3: to the Underworld. Much appreciated for your time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to you.

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Speaker 3: We'll start off before we get into your whole life

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Speaker 3: and everything like that. But you growing up, your schooling friends, family,

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Speaker 3: what part of friends?

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Speaker 1: She grew up in so I was born in Africa

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Speaker 1: in Cameroon Yahunde, which is a capital, because my parents

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Speaker 1: were working there at the time. They stayed over a year.

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Speaker 1: I was conceived in France but born in Africa, and

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Speaker 1: they went back a year after to Europe. So I

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Speaker 1: lived in a few different countries because my dad used

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Speaker 1: to work as an IT for a bank, so he

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Speaker 1: was studying different networks in the seventies in different banks

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Speaker 1: around the world. So I lived in Geneva, London, and

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Speaker 1: later we settled down in Paris, then Portugal, several countries.

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Speaker 1: What was growing up for you? Like for school? And

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Speaker 1: was lots of friends? Normal life now because I was

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Speaker 1: moving all the time, so I didn't have time to

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Speaker 1: make friends and going to different school. I would never

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Speaker 1: stay more than two years in the same school. Was

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Speaker 1: that hard for you, Yes, I know, because I was

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Speaker 1: used to it. And when you're used, this is your routine,

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Speaker 1: this is your daily life, and you have to adapt

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Speaker 1: to new countries, new languages, new things. So you me

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Speaker 1: as a kid, I isolated myself from the other kids

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Speaker 1: because I knew that I wouldn't stay lone there, so

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Speaker 1: I didn't even bother trying to make friendships or anything.

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Speaker 1: So from a very early start, I was a loner

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Speaker 1: and I didn't engage much in interactions with the other kids.

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Speaker 1: I was just the weird kid that nobody talked to.

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Speaker 1: What was your opringing like with your parents? Was there

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Speaker 1: a good relationship? Yes? And no? Because they had problems

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Speaker 1: of their own And for example, my mom, she was

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Speaker 1: prone to what's called melancholia, which is an extreme form

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Speaker 1: of depression with alicide attempts, and feelings of paranoia. She

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Speaker 1: would think, for example, when I was a teenager, that

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Speaker 1: I was trying to, you know, do bad things to her.

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Speaker 1: So there was that on my mom's side, this really

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Speaker 1: heavy psychotic thing going on. And my father was just

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Speaker 1: focused on other things. He was a humanitarian, so he

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Speaker 1: was trying.

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Speaker 4: To be walk before the work the word walk was

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Speaker 4: even a thing, So he spent most of his money

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Speaker 4: on helping others and not even taking care of.

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Speaker 1: His own family. So did you have proms and sisters. No.

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Speaker 1: I was a lonely child.

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Speaker 3: Wow, So it would have been hard for you than

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Speaker 3: with your parents the way they were and finding things

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Speaker 3: to do. Like I was, I was a lonely kid

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Speaker 3: as a child, So I kind of know where you're

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Speaker 3: coming from because my mom was a constant worker. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I was actually wear days and nights. My father was

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Speaker 3: in a nightclub scene, so I hardly seen him. Then

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Speaker 3: they divorced. Was it really hard for you, Like?

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Speaker 1: Was it? What were you interested in? We had stuff

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Speaker 1: from the start, as early as six to seven. I

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Speaker 1: would watch old horror movies on the TV when there

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Speaker 1: was you know, it was the beginning of VHS tapes.

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Speaker 1: When I was about eleven or twelve, I would rent

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Speaker 1: tapes at the local video video store. So I was

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Speaker 1: focused many focused on that, and I read a lot.

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Speaker 1: I was reading a lot about the occult, and my

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Speaker 1: dad was into anthropology, which is the study of tribes

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Speaker 1: around the world and ethnic groups, et cetera. And he

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Speaker 1: had a lot of books about that, and there was

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Speaker 1: always chapters on scarifications, and we had rites around the world,

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Speaker 1: voodoo and stuff like that. And I was fascinating by

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Speaker 1: those pictures because in the seventies you wouldn't see that

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Speaker 1: anywhere else. I mean, you wouldn't see that on TV,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't see that anywhere. So it was very very

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Speaker 1: intriguing for me. There was pictures with blood and pictures

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Speaker 1: with mutilations and weird statues and stuff like that. So

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Speaker 1: this is definitely an impact on how I was raised. Also,

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Speaker 1: my parents weren't into religion much except that my father

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Speaker 1: was fascinated by those possession rituals that they had, but

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Speaker 1: from a from an anthropology perspective, and for me, it

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Speaker 1: was my first experience with magic and all those things,

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Speaker 1: and I was fascinating by what those people were doing

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Speaker 1: in those very remote places.

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Speaker 3: Did you look back now and feel like you did

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Speaker 3: lose a childhood by being out that kind of a

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Speaker 3: loaner and the way your parents were.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like you've missed out? It's hard for

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Speaker 1: me to be find what childhood is because when you

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Speaker 1: grow Yeah, yeah, I don't know what other kids have experienced.

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Speaker 1: And this was my experience and this made me into

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Speaker 1: a different human being maybe, But you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: believe that you own in nature and nurture, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's a mix of the two. I mean, culture

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Speaker 1: is definitely there and how you were raised, but I

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Speaker 1: think there's deep inside of you when you have certain

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Speaker 1: things inside of you going on, it's a cocktail. You know,

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Speaker 1: at one point you have those things growing inside of

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Speaker 1: you and it creates unique individuals.

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Speaker 3: So we had that kind of childhood that you had

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Speaker 3: upbringing to Did that lead on to later life even

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Speaker 3: to now. Did you find it hard to make friends

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Speaker 3: or is it a bit easier now Your life's a

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Speaker 3: bit changed now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. From a very early age, I was the outcast

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Speaker 1: and I didn't even feel the need to interact with

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Speaker 1: others because I just didn't understand them at all. You know.

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Speaker 1: I was not into sports. I was not into what

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Speaker 1: other kids were into at the time. When I was

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Speaker 1: living in Portugal with my parents i was a teenager,

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Speaker 1: they were very much into soccer and all those things,

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Speaker 1: and I was not into that at all. I was

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Speaker 1: visiting graveyards, which at the time in the eighties was

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Speaker 1: very bizarre for a teenager. You weren't talking about God

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Speaker 1: kids yet, you know, especially in Portugal. So it wasn't

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Speaker 1: the culture, it wasn't the thing. It was my thing,

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Speaker 1: the thing that I was attracted to. I didn't ask

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Speaker 1: myself why it was me who was right and the

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Speaker 1: others who were bizarre and wrong. So I was extremely

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Speaker 1: self centered. Of course, this is one of the major

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Speaker 1: traits of what you call antisocial personality disorder, which is

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Speaker 1: what I developed. And you do believe that you are

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Speaker 1: surrounded by enemies, that's the thing. So from a very

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Speaker 1: very early age, I developed this defense mechanism where everybody

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Speaker 1: could be a potential enemy. Wow, what was your first job?

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Speaker 1: My first job was after going to the Army, I

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Speaker 1: stayed and Yamy and the armory, so I basically handled guns.

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Speaker 3: For four you I was okay, just before you go on.

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Speaker 3: So you were in the army. How difficult was that

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Speaker 3: for you? Because you were alone?

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Speaker 1: That that was hard. The first thing, one of the

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Speaker 1: first things I brought with me was an autopsy book,

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Speaker 1: and I did it on purpose because I was reading it,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the dorm and all the other guys

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Speaker 1: were like into their own stuff, and they would saw

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Speaker 1: me and asked me if I wanted to become a

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Speaker 1: doctor or what. I said, No, I just like the

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Speaker 1: pictures and then silence and then never never try to

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Speaker 1: talk with me or bother me or anything, you know.

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Speaker 1: So that that was my first you know reflex. When

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Speaker 1: I was in Yamy, then I was into much into guns.

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Speaker 1: So I really really liked I really enjoyed manipulating and

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Speaker 1: cleaning the guns because this is most of the things

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Speaker 1: you have to do. Of course you shoot them, which

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Speaker 1: I appreciated them, but military life was you know. The

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Speaker 1: thing is when you have a personality like mine, it's

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Speaker 1: difficult to accept orders, especially when you consider that the

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Speaker 1: people will give you orders are more stupid than you.

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Speaker 1: But you find a means to adapt, so you say yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that you know you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. So this is why you have to be

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Speaker 1: to make the difference between what they call sociopaths and psychopaths.

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Speaker 1: A sociopath does not understand the world, no, and that's

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Speaker 1: the major difference. A sociopath, they're like always in trouble

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Speaker 1: with the police, They're always in trouble with enforcement. They're

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Speaker 1: always in trouble everywhere because they're just getting into those

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Speaker 1: anger fits that they cannot control, just because they are

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Speaker 1: unable to understand that there's a way around. And pure

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Speaker 1: psychopaths they understand there's a way around, and they always

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Speaker 1: get what they want because they know how to if

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Speaker 1: you will manipulate people into getting what they want. So

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Speaker 1: even if you're in the army and there's an officer

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Speaker 1: above you that tells you okay, you gotta do this,

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Speaker 1: you got to do that, you say, okay, okay, but

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Speaker 1: you find a means. For example, me, I stole a

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Speaker 1: few guns because I used my position. I played dumb

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Speaker 1: when they asked me where the guns were and I

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Speaker 1: just say, yeah, I don't know. There was this guy

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Speaker 1: who came with the car and and he was from

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Speaker 1: another regiment, and blah blah blah, and you know they

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Speaker 1: bought into it. And what do you do with the guns? Oh,

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Speaker 1: I just had them a home date. It was a

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Speaker 1: Farmers and a PM forty five. So the problem with

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Speaker 1: those they have since their military grade. It was really

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Speaker 1: difficult to get the bullets. The bullets aren't held in

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Speaker 1: the same place as the guns. Yeah, it's two separate,

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Speaker 1: the yamo and the guns are separate. So I got

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Speaker 1: hold of a few AMMO later when I went back

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Speaker 1: to civil life. But I never really used them for

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Speaker 1: criminal activities here.

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Speaker 3: So he basically just took them to use them for

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Speaker 3: like a whole just to shoot around, to go shoot.

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Speaker 1: Well, I wanted to use them, honestly. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: use them. Could to kill people basically, Oh you did,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I wanted to use the

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Speaker 1: Farmers definitely, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had the plan with

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Speaker 1: the tower. I knew I wanted to go on top

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Speaker 1: of the tower and use the farmers. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: not really a long distance gun, but you know, I

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Speaker 1: wanted still to do some damage really, so I had

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Speaker 1: them on the side. There were like just things I

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Speaker 1: had on the side that I could use for later.

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Speaker 3: So you were actually in the army and you were

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Speaker 3: thinking about things like that outside the army, what you

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Speaker 3: could do.

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Speaker 1: I've thought about those things since I was twelve years old.

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Speaker 1: So the army was just a way for me to

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Speaker 1: to get what you need.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I learned how to shoot, I learned how to aim.

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Speaker 1: That was just training for me. You know. Wow, before

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Speaker 1: we move.

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Speaker 3: On that that what makes a child think like that

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Speaker 3: at that age?

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Speaker 1: Is it? Is it because of your upbringing? You thinking? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think it's the difference that you have towards other people.

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Speaker 1: Did you feel lost in yourself and you just feel

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Speaker 1: angry at people? Anger? There was some anger? Yeah. Were

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Speaker 1: you ever pulled? Yeah, I've especially when I was in

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Speaker 1: countries where I didn't speak the language, so they would

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Speaker 1: use that against me to say things. Bed my back

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Speaker 1: and I started to bring knives at school. At the time,

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Speaker 1: they weren't really checking your backpack or anything. So once

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Speaker 1: I put out a knife in front of another key,

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Speaker 1: of course you complained and I was expelled. My parents

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Speaker 1: they were looking for psychiatric council because of that. But

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Speaker 1: since nobody spoke French at the time we were living

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Speaker 1: in Portugal, the psychiatrists, they didn't speak French, so they

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Speaker 1: waiting until I would come back to France just to

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Speaker 1: start that. But it never happened because you know, were

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Speaker 1: your parents strict? No no, no, no, no, they just

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Speaker 1: weren't different to what was happening. Okay, happy with them, No, no, no.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have any interaction with them, and they didn't

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Speaker 1: have any interaction with me. You know, we kind of

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Speaker 1: led parallel lives. Even when I was a child, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't They didn't really do anything for me, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't hrug them or anything, so there was nothing. I

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Speaker 1: was just there. I guess, did you ever get thoughts

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Speaker 1: like you just said about your parents? Now? No, no,

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Speaker 1: because it was a comfort thing because I knew that

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Speaker 1: by doing this I would have a psych world, etc.

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Speaker 1: So I was really aware of the consequences, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't especially I feel anger towards now if that meant

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Speaker 1: mean sense. Anger for me was more towards other kids

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Speaker 1: at school, even random people. You know, the slightest thing

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Speaker 1: for me would be a reason why I would stop

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Speaker 1: someone in my reasoning, people in the public transports or

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Speaker 1: you know, I was just waiting for this, just a

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Speaker 1: reason to do it. One of the major things that

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Speaker 1: people don't understand about antisocial personality disorders is that you

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Speaker 1: always feel justified into what you're doing, and that's extremely

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Speaker 1: important if you want to study that and understand the

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Speaker 1: mind of a psychopath. There's a need to be justified

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Speaker 1: by what you're doing. So sometimes the justification is just weird.

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Speaker 1: Some people they think, for example, that sex workers are

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Speaker 1: evil and they feel justified by killing sex workers. They

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Speaker 1: need the justification, if you will, and it can be

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Speaker 1: cultural or in my case, it was just a question

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Speaker 1: of is this person doing something that pieces me off?

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Speaker 1: So it was broader than just targeting one group or

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Speaker 1: one person. For me, it was general, could have been

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Speaker 1: everyone anyone.

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Speaker 3: Did you ever pitch yourself doing it, Like you know,

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Speaker 3: when you think about something first before you.

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Speaker 1: It would you do that Oh yeah, Yeah, it's called

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Speaker 1: intrusive fought. So that's a defense making incident that's developed

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Speaker 1: when you're a teenager, when you're about twelve or thirteen,

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Speaker 1: when you wake up in the morning and you think

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Speaker 1: about one thing and you just staste there the entire day.

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Speaker 1: It never leaves. You're finding ways. For me, at first,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't very detailed. It was just you know, stabbing people,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Then the more I grew and the more

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Speaker 1: I was reading about anatomy and where the arteries are

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Speaker 1: and where to stick the knife and all those kind

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Speaker 1: of practical things, if you will. And I was reading

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Speaker 1: a lot of true crime books just to get the

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Speaker 1: m or was not because I was interested in the

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Speaker 1: police work, but just to understand what was the most

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Speaker 1: effective in terms of, for example, of strangulation, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So I picked up on those things. I really was

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Speaker 1: interested in the mechanics, even you know, books on public

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Speaker 1: executions about hanging, for example, there's a certain length of

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Speaker 1: rope that you gotta use for hanging. All those practical

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Speaker 1: things that everybody people never think about, But for me

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Speaker 1: it was extremely technical. Yeah, did you ever harm yourself?

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Speaker 1: I did, but not looking for pain. It was just

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Speaker 1: more for blood, the blood, seeing the blood, because I

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Speaker 1: developed a fetish around blood. So I did this in

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Speaker 1: the beginning. Then I found a partners who were into

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Speaker 1: that too, so we did that. It was more of

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Speaker 1: a fetish thing. And it was not about the quantity

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Speaker 1: because people think it's about quantities of blood, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: It was more about the rush, the taste. So even

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Speaker 1: a few jobs or just a syringe, a small syringe,

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Speaker 1: it was enough. Wow. So okay, moving back after the army,

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Speaker 1: what did you do after the army? What did you

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Speaker 1: get it to n What do you work as? So

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Speaker 1: I was looking for a job in a funeral home

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Speaker 1: or mortuary in a hospital. So I applied with my ciling,

303
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Speaker 1: with my resume, and I got a job. So I

304
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Speaker 1: was doing two things. I would in the morning, I

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Speaker 1: was working in a morgue and in the afternoon I

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Speaker 1: was working as a stretcher bearer, so anoderly and the

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Speaker 1: hospital already in a surgery unit. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I would do in the surgery unit was

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Speaker 1: go to the blood bank get the blood bags for surgery.

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Speaker 1: And soon I developed a trick, so they had labels

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Speaker 1: on each blood bag. So sometimes I would steal the

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Speaker 1: blood bags, get the label and pretend because I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, also bringing the labels back to the blood bank,

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Speaker 1: so like if they had been used, but they would

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Speaker 1: not be used, and I actually told them, so I

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Speaker 1: would still at least yeah, more or less one or

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Speaker 1: two a week like that. And what would you do

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Speaker 1: with stolen I brought them home and draining them. So

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Speaker 1: you have to understand there's two kinds of blood bags

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Speaker 1: are as lasma which is not edible, and the So this

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Speaker 1: is what I would bring home because it's the actual

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Speaker 1: blood itself, but without the sick thing. So it was

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Speaker 1: extremely fluid. Yeah, she will was when was.

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Speaker 3: Your first time actually tasting like drinking blood?

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Speaker 1: When was the first time you had you tried that?

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Speaker 1: I was about fifteen maybe, yeah, when I started to

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Speaker 1: get myself here to.

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Speaker 3: Taste doing someone else's with the partners, it was when

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Speaker 3: I was seventeen seventeen. And how did you come across

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Speaker 3: to say to your partner can we do this?

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Speaker 1: Was she into it? Yeah? Yeah, yea, yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: or during a trip in New York so with my

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Speaker 1: parents because of his job, he had to go to

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Speaker 1: New York for two weeks. So I went there and

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Speaker 1: I went to a knuckle shop and I met a

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Speaker 1: girl there who was into it. Wow. And I told

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Speaker 1: her the owner of the shop that you know, we

338
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Speaker 1: had the catacombs and all those things in Paris blah

339
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Speaker 1: blah blah. And she was nearby and she heard all this.

340
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Speaker 1: She really interested with We hooked up and we started

341
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Speaker 1: doing this this thing. When I got back, it was

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Speaker 1: kind of hard to find someone, but I was going

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Speaker 1: to got shoes at the time and metal clubs and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, so eventually I found somebody else.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so because I've never I've never done that before,

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Speaker 3: Like I've tasted my own blood before you cut yourself,

347
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Speaker 3: you do that. What is the taste that you're tasting? Like, well,

348
00:19:32,921 --> 00:19:35,281
Speaker 3: describe a taste someone tastes someone else's blood.

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Speaker 1: What is it the same? Metallic? Yeah, it's metallic. But

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Speaker 1: I grew up eating a lot of raw meat, steak, tartar, capaccio.

351
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Speaker 1: There's this distinctive taste of meat, or even when you

352
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Speaker 1: eat blood panting yeah, oh yes, yes, yeah, yeah, you

353
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Speaker 1: got the taste in blood pudding, you know, even if

354
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Speaker 1: it's talk and or other animals it's kind of same

355
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,601
Speaker 1: metallic taste, but there's you know, there's also some kind

356
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Speaker 1: of spiritual aspect to it, if you will when you

357
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Speaker 1: drink somebody else's blood, which most people will tell you, okay,

358
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Speaker 1: it's in your head, but I really felt a rush

359
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Speaker 1: when doing it. Wow.

360
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Speaker 3: So how would you drink it just normal from a couple?

361
00:20:19,521 --> 00:20:21,721
Speaker 3: How How would you do it so range? How would

362
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Speaker 3: you be done?

363
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Speaker 1: At first it was cut, but then I developed this

364
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Speaker 1: system with insulin needles because they're really small their painness. Yeah,

365
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Speaker 1: and when you know where to stick it, you get

366
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Speaker 1: a good quantity of blood enough, I mean, then you

367
00:20:36,961 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 1: just put it in a coup regass. What drinking? Oh,

368
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Speaker 1: it's just straight in the mouse and you were.

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Speaker 3: You were never scared and you don't know what that

370
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Speaker 3: person's got or anything like that.

371
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Speaker 1: So in the hospital I was always checking, you know,

372
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Speaker 1: blood bags that check, double check, triple checked for diseases,

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Speaker 1: whether it's apatities or HIV, et cetera. With the partners,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't checking. So maybe I was not careful with that. Yeah,

375
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Speaker 1: I mean you know the scenes the God since the

376
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Speaker 1: Metal scenes. Maybe it's stupid, but you would think that

377
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Speaker 1: those people are not, you know, especially the target of

378
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:18,041
Speaker 1: those kinds of diseases. Yeah, but yeah, it's yeah. Wow.

379
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Speaker 3: What were you more fascinated with dead bodies in the

380
00:21:21,921 --> 00:21:24,761
Speaker 3: morgue or was it the blood from the bodies?

381
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Speaker 1: What was it more fascinating in the blood. Yeah, blood,

382
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Speaker 1: It's always been the blood, I mean dead bodies. It

383
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 1: was like, it's not deaf itself, that is interesting to me.

384
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Speaker 1: It just did the meat and flesh aspect of it.

385
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Speaker 1: So when I was working in a morgue, of course

386
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,601
Speaker 1: doing the autopsies, I had to try because it had

387
00:21:46,681 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: been alive from fantasy. Those were people that had just

388
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: died like twenty four hours before. They were fresh. People

389
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 1: often confused and maybe now it's even worse because of

390
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,161
Speaker 1: the Edgin Show on Netflix, but often confused, like the

391
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,081
Speaker 1: fact that people who do those skele of things there

392
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,001
Speaker 1: into like decomposed bodies or anything, and I just found

393
00:22:10,041 --> 00:22:14,001
Speaker 1: them repulsive, Like everywhere everybody else, It's more like about

394
00:22:14,041 --> 00:22:17,281
Speaker 1: the meat, the freshness and the it's even more fresh

395
00:22:17,321 --> 00:22:20,521
Speaker 1: than the meat that you find in the supermarket because

396
00:22:20,521 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: they died twenty four hours ago, so it's fresher in

397
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Speaker 1: a way.

398
00:22:24,281 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 3: So you would wait for somebody to pass away in

399
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Speaker 3: the morgue. I'm within twenty four hours, you would, yeah,

400
00:22:31,681 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 3: have blood and they never know, they never knew that

401
00:22:34,481 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 3: you did it.

402
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't blood because the blood is not circulating anymore.

403
00:22:38,721 --> 00:22:41,521
Speaker 1: It was when I was doing the autopsies at the

404
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,001
Speaker 1: end you have to stitche them up because all the

405
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,401
Speaker 1: organs are removed and you have to stitche them up.

406
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,721
Speaker 1: And it was while I was stitching the map that

407
00:22:49,801 --> 00:22:54,001
Speaker 1: would cut a slice of two or two of meat

408
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:57,521
Speaker 1: from the how biggest? How big a slice we're talking

409
00:22:57,521 --> 00:23:00,881
Speaker 1: to you or just small ones? You know, yes, like that?

410
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 3: So you would you wouldn't You would miss it on

411
00:23:02,721 --> 00:23:04,041
Speaker 3: the body if you try to find it.

412
00:23:04,201 --> 00:23:08,241
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. It was not detectable. It was inside. And

413
00:23:08,761 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: once they're stitched top, you can't even say that something

414
00:23:11,521 --> 00:23:13,521
Speaker 1: is missing. It's not like I cut a norm and

415
00:23:13,521 --> 00:23:17,561
Speaker 1: a leg, you know, Yeah exactly. So you know there

416
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,360
Speaker 1: was a there was metal to this madness. I knew

417
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: exactly what I was doing. I was doing things so

418
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,161
Speaker 1: that I could could get away with them, and they

419
00:23:26,241 --> 00:23:30,241
Speaker 1: were all justified in my logic, which by logic being

420
00:23:30,681 --> 00:23:34,441
Speaker 1: that people were cattle and I was an app expredator

421
00:23:34,481 --> 00:23:37,921
Speaker 1: in a way. So for me, it didn't mean anything

422
00:23:37,961 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 1: to me. You know, I didn't think about, you know,

423
00:23:40,481 --> 00:23:43,801
Speaker 1: more consequences. I didn't think about grief. I didn't think

424
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: about other people because I felt justified seeing them and

425
00:23:48,241 --> 00:23:51,601
Speaker 1: seeing everybody else as enemies. And this is important when

426
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,481
Speaker 1: you after you try to understand these kind of pathologies

427
00:23:56,481 --> 00:24:01,241
Speaker 1: and this kind of mental disease, that just there's no limit.

428
00:24:01,921 --> 00:24:04,561
Speaker 1: Now you create your own limit. I was not interested

429
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,001
Speaker 1: in kids or the elderly, etcetera.

430
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 3: What was what was your favorite part of the body

431
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,641
Speaker 3: to cut open and try what was the most favorite part?

432
00:24:13,241 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: So the only part I had access to was the

433
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:20,601
Speaker 1: abdominal cage and the abdominal cavity. So I would say

434
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: that the parts around the ribs that were the ones

435
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: I liked the most. Now I would have loved to

436
00:24:27,241 --> 00:24:31,961
Speaker 1: try other parts like cars or you know, biceps, maybe

437
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:34,961
Speaker 1: maybe those things, but I did not have access to them.

438
00:24:35,001 --> 00:24:37,041
Speaker 1: And this is why I killed someone, because I wanted

439
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,281
Speaker 1: to try that on a person without the consequences of

440
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: being fired from the job, you know. So that was

441
00:24:44,481 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: my logic to this manners when you when you have

442
00:24:47,041 --> 00:24:50,681
Speaker 1: rather got fired from a job, than kill somebody. Yeah,

443
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,441
Speaker 1: that was the logic. That's the logic because that job

444
00:24:54,561 --> 00:24:57,321
Speaker 1: meant everything to me. Wow, you have to understand that.

445
00:24:57,441 --> 00:24:59,801
Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that I developed is

446
00:25:00,241 --> 00:25:02,801
Speaker 1: the plans that I had was to kill my other

447
00:25:02,921 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: workmates so that I could stail on the job and

448
00:25:05,921 --> 00:25:09,361
Speaker 1: work by myself. And I know that it sounds totally

449
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: irrational when you say that was my logic by that,

450
00:25:12,441 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to kill them by one by one. So

451
00:25:15,721 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 1: you would look at your work mates want to kill them?

452
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,161
Speaker 3: Would you look at them in a way where how

453
00:25:20,241 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 3: you would kill them, how you would chop them up

454
00:25:22,281 --> 00:25:23,681
Speaker 3: and you would eat them.

455
00:25:23,761 --> 00:25:26,561
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was one of them. You know, I wasn't

456
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,601
Speaker 1: really into socializing with them, but there's one of them

457
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,841
Speaker 1: who said, yeah, how about you have a drink at

458
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 1: my place after work? And I said yeah, And I

459
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: had a pocket knife on me. So I went to

460
00:25:39,481 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: his place and all the time I was fidgeting this

461
00:25:42,561 --> 00:25:45,441
Speaker 1: pocket knife in my pocket. I was like, Okay, did

462
00:25:45,481 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: somebody see me go inside his apartment with him? You know,

463
00:25:50,321 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: did I leave any prints anywhere I was? You know,

464
00:25:53,961 --> 00:25:56,001
Speaker 1: he was talking to me like, hey, did you see

465
00:25:56,001 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: this show on TV? And I was like just thinking

466
00:25:59,481 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: of ways, you know, of you know, stabbing him and

467
00:26:02,521 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 1: getting rid of him. But I didn't do it at

468
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: the because the conversation just went about work. Then there

469
00:26:10,281 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: was something inside me like, you know, this guy is

470
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: still a work made. Am I really willing to do this?

471
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,641
Speaker 1: You know? There was this little you know, cop inside

472
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,121
Speaker 1: of me that woke up. I decided that, no, it's

473
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: gonna leave tonight. Yeah, it's what they call the Roman

474
00:26:28,801 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: Emperor syndrome. That's the thing you develop when you do

475
00:26:32,321 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: those kinds of things, is that you see people and

476
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,961
Speaker 1: you decide yes, oh no. So that's the thing you developed,

477
00:26:37,961 --> 00:26:40,761
Speaker 1: the Roman Emperor syndrome. Like a Roman emperor, you decide

478
00:26:40,921 --> 00:26:43,921
Speaker 1: that people will live or die. Would would have been

479
00:26:43,961 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: easier to just kill him at the morgue? Yes and no,

480
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: because the investigation would have been much faster for the cops,

481
00:26:52,961 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: I guess. But I had this idea because I was

482
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: fired just some months before the murder for the murder.

483
00:27:01,441 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: So I had this idea of going back there because

484
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: I had set of keys, and I had made the

485
00:27:07,521 --> 00:27:10,521
Speaker 1: double of the keys, and I wanted to use that

486
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,121
Speaker 1: keys to go there night and wait until they come

487
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,041
Speaker 1: in the morning and kill them by one by one.

488
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,721
Speaker 1: That was a plan that I had for for Christmas. Okay, yeah, yeah,

489
00:27:19,761 --> 00:27:21,801
Speaker 1: that was a real plan, an actual plan that I

490
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,801
Speaker 1: was set on, because that's the thing. When you're set

491
00:27:23,801 --> 00:27:27,281
Speaker 1: on a plan, you really will do it, because that's

492
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:30,561
Speaker 1: your your eye per focused. Yeah, you share a few

493
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: things with people back then.

494
00:27:32,921 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 3: You know, when you decide all this, would you be

495
00:27:35,761 --> 00:27:38,041
Speaker 3: talking to yourself a lot to say, like I'm going

496
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 3: to do this?

497
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: Like will part of you be saying now or would

498
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: all of you be saying now, fuck it, I'm going

499
00:27:44,001 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: to do this? Well, it was a struggle. Part of

500
00:27:47,521 --> 00:27:50,561
Speaker 1: me said no, but for not for moral reasons, just

501
00:27:50,801 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: because I knew that this was a risk. So you

502
00:27:54,241 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: try to evaluate the risk all the time. Two riskys

503
00:27:57,921 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: this easy. And the more you do illegal stuff, the

504
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:04,561
Speaker 1: more you think you can get away with it. You

505
00:28:04,561 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 1: have this you just feeling of the impunity. You feel

506
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,441
Speaker 1: that you can always get away with it, and that's

507
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,241
Speaker 1: something that I think is shared by a lot of criminals.

508
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:18,801
Speaker 1: You start being less cautious. For me, you know, I

509
00:28:18,961 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: was in the manic phase of my psychosis, and the

510
00:28:23,721 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: manic phases means that you see everything faster. Everything the

511
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,281
Speaker 1: world is going faster run, so you have this feeling

512
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:36,041
Speaker 1: of it's now never. Everything seems more real, everything seems

513
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:41,641
Speaker 1: more intense. So it's harder, if you will, to say

514
00:28:41,681 --> 00:28:44,681
Speaker 1: no to certain things and to take a few steps

515
00:28:44,721 --> 00:28:47,001
Speaker 1: back and say, Okay, this is too risky for me,

516
00:28:47,081 --> 00:28:49,921
Speaker 1: I'm not doing this. How many how many bodies do

517
00:28:49,921 --> 00:28:52,361
Speaker 1: you think you cut up in the morgue? And it?

518
00:28:53,361 --> 00:28:57,321
Speaker 1: So there was about yeah, one or two a week,

519
00:28:58,921 --> 00:29:04,201
Speaker 1: I would say more one for eight months, for eight months. Yeah,

520
00:29:04,241 --> 00:29:09,481
Speaker 1: so that's a lot. Wow. Yeah, Okay, because we've we've

521
00:29:09,481 --> 00:29:10,361
Speaker 1: already spoken.

522
00:29:10,121 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 3: About like this kind of this kind of fetish that

523
00:29:13,521 --> 00:29:16,921
Speaker 3: you had for red meat or human meat.

524
00:29:17,521 --> 00:29:20,641
Speaker 1: Did you eat did you eat anything different at home?

525
00:29:21,961 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, like you normal meat. I had a

526
00:29:26,001 --> 00:29:32,361
Speaker 1: preference for for beef and for road meat and stectarta

527
00:29:32,481 --> 00:29:36,761
Speaker 1: and those kind of things. So I wasn't I wasn't

528
00:29:37,201 --> 00:29:39,561
Speaker 1: really cook or anything, you know. I didn't try to

529
00:29:40,161 --> 00:29:44,881
Speaker 1: try sophisticated things. And later on I wrote this Cannibal cookbook,

530
00:29:44,961 --> 00:29:49,641
Speaker 1: which got a lot of interest by the international press,

531
00:29:49,921 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: but myself, I wasn't doing anything sophisticated.

532
00:29:54,041 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 3: Did anyone get suspecious of you before the killing, like that,

533
00:29:57,641 --> 00:29:58,801
Speaker 3: was anyone suspecious of you?

534
00:29:59,681 --> 00:30:03,001
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, there was suspecial because

535
00:30:03,081 --> 00:30:09,281
Speaker 1: this so me getting weirder and weirder. The only people

536
00:30:09,401 --> 00:30:12,641
Speaker 1: I hanged out with were people were in the metal

537
00:30:12,761 --> 00:30:17,521
Speaker 1: scene that I met at metal concerts and festivals of bars,

538
00:30:17,881 --> 00:30:20,161
Speaker 1: and even though it was too much, you know, they

539
00:30:20,161 --> 00:30:22,681
Speaker 1: were into lestening, death metal, et cetera. But for them

540
00:30:22,721 --> 00:30:25,081
Speaker 1: it was just about the music, you know, when I

541
00:30:25,161 --> 00:30:27,521
Speaker 1: was telling them, Okay, yeah, I'd like to do this,

542
00:30:27,681 --> 00:30:30,321
Speaker 1: I'd like to do that, but telling them that I

543
00:30:30,321 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: had actually done this and that, you know, but they

544
00:30:33,561 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: were looking at me in a weird way, and they

545
00:30:36,721 --> 00:30:40,921
Speaker 1: weren't really surprised when I was arrested. So you were

546
00:30:40,921 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: into heavy metal music yeah back then?

547
00:30:43,361 --> 00:30:47,641
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I know some heavy metal lyrics are like

548
00:30:47,961 --> 00:30:51,161
Speaker 3: what you're talking about? Would that draw you even more

549
00:30:51,201 --> 00:30:52,841
Speaker 3: to do what you want to do? Because what you

550
00:30:52,881 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: were listening to?

551
00:30:54,281 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: I thought they were to blame. Actually yeah, the lyrics, Yeah,

552
00:30:57,801 --> 00:30:59,361
Speaker 1: they were to blame for me.

553
00:30:59,521 --> 00:30:59,761
Speaker 5: Wow.

554
00:30:59,801 --> 00:31:04,161
Speaker 1: So even the most brutal death metal things they were like,

555
00:31:04,561 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: for me to was a bit childish, you know. I

556
00:31:08,121 --> 00:31:13,481
Speaker 1: was in more into real stuff. So whether we're talking

557
00:31:13,481 --> 00:31:18,761
Speaker 1: about stuff in the lyrics that sounded really unrealistic for me,

558
00:31:19,481 --> 00:31:23,401
Speaker 1: unrealistic displays of violence, if you will. I just shrugged

559
00:31:23,401 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: it off, and I was like, Okay, they're just kids

560
00:31:25,481 --> 00:31:28,561
Speaker 1: trying to get an image, you know, showing an image,

561
00:31:28,561 --> 00:31:31,361
Speaker 1: but they don't know the real deal. And I'm the

562
00:31:31,401 --> 00:31:36,001
Speaker 1: real deal, you know. So I had this feeling of superiority,

563
00:31:36,041 --> 00:31:39,761
Speaker 1: if you will, go towards this, and I got less

564
00:31:39,761 --> 00:31:42,761
Speaker 1: and less interesting in that kind of music because it

565
00:31:42,801 --> 00:31:44,961
Speaker 1: was for me, it was just more about a scene,

566
00:31:45,041 --> 00:31:49,481
Speaker 1: and people were into this kind of rhythmic, brutal kind

567
00:31:49,521 --> 00:31:53,641
Speaker 1: of music, and for me it was never about the

568
00:31:53,721 --> 00:31:57,881
Speaker 1: music because I'm not a musical person. And right now

569
00:31:57,921 --> 00:32:02,121
Speaker 1: I'm fifty three, I don't listen to music anymore at all.

570
00:32:02,681 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: There's not even when I'm writing books or painting. I

571
00:32:07,081 --> 00:32:09,401
Speaker 1: just don't enjoy music. You're always not for me. I

572
00:32:09,441 --> 00:32:12,961
Speaker 1: don't understand music, okay, but not now. But back then,

573
00:32:13,841 --> 00:32:16,721
Speaker 1: how would you relax? Did you ever have a clear head?

574
00:32:17,081 --> 00:32:19,561
Speaker 3: Were you ever like sitting there one day and just

575
00:32:19,641 --> 00:32:21,881
Speaker 3: you know, would would never think about anything. How did

576
00:32:21,921 --> 00:32:24,521
Speaker 3: you relax as a person when you were doing this

577
00:32:24,561 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 3: for eight months?

578
00:32:25,761 --> 00:32:26,601
Speaker 1: Like I know I'm not here.

579
00:32:26,641 --> 00:32:30,521
Speaker 3: You're probably saying, I don't know that what relaxes because

580
00:32:30,801 --> 00:32:31,521
Speaker 3: this is how I was.

581
00:32:31,601 --> 00:32:33,321
Speaker 1: But there must be a time when you did.

582
00:32:33,241 --> 00:32:34,801
Speaker 3: You ever sit at home and put your feet up,

583
00:32:34,841 --> 00:32:37,361
Speaker 3: and I don't know, wonder what you were doing.

584
00:32:37,521 --> 00:32:41,041
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's I'm trying to get not into

585
00:32:41,081 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: your head. I'm just trying to figure out what what

586
00:32:43,641 --> 00:32:46,641
Speaker 1: made you feel? One minute, you're in a morgue.

587
00:32:46,641 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 3: You want to you want to stitch, you want to

588
00:32:48,321 --> 00:32:50,961
Speaker 3: unstitch someone fucking eat the eat the flesh.

589
00:32:51,121 --> 00:32:52,841
Speaker 1: Then you want to go home. How did you relax

590
00:32:52,841 --> 00:32:55,881
Speaker 1: when you went home? You have to understand that home

591
00:32:56,681 --> 00:33:01,241
Speaker 1: was built to my image. Wow, so it was horror

592
00:33:01,241 --> 00:33:07,521
Speaker 1: movie POSTERUS SNM magazines. We were bones that I had

593
00:33:07,601 --> 00:33:13,121
Speaker 1: Stolens calls my fridge, that there was blood bags in it,

594
00:33:14,161 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: and so it was built to my image. It was me.

595
00:33:18,521 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: So okay.

596
00:33:19,521 --> 00:33:22,601
Speaker 3: So if you have a date, like you said you would,

597
00:33:22,681 --> 00:33:25,241
Speaker 3: sometimes you get your dates and you brought them back

598
00:33:25,281 --> 00:33:28,641
Speaker 3: to your apartments and you've got schools and brought backs

599
00:33:28,641 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 3: in your in your bags, in your in your your fridge.

600
00:33:31,361 --> 00:33:34,961
Speaker 1: What the fuck is this person thinking? Well, some of

601
00:33:35,001 --> 00:33:39,721
Speaker 1: them never saw them again. But yeah, it happened a

602
00:33:39,801 --> 00:33:44,001
Speaker 1: couple of times, but the last one, which was more stable,

603
00:33:44,081 --> 00:33:47,801
Speaker 1: it lasted six months, Yeah, about six months. She was

604
00:33:47,841 --> 00:33:51,361
Speaker 1: impressed by those things because she was into this kind

605
00:33:51,401 --> 00:33:56,841
Speaker 1: of dark thing. She was dominatrix herself. We were not

606
00:33:57,001 --> 00:34:02,841
Speaker 1: in a sub and relationship, but she was a professional dominitrix.

607
00:34:02,961 --> 00:34:05,401
Speaker 1: She was doing this for a living. Wow, she into

608
00:34:05,441 --> 00:34:08,201
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff too, but of course not to

609
00:34:08,521 --> 00:34:10,921
Speaker 1: that degree. And she didn't know what I was doing

610
00:34:10,921 --> 00:34:14,201
Speaker 1: on the side, so she never actually saw the contents

611
00:34:14,241 --> 00:34:17,481
Speaker 1: of the fridge. This I kept away from her, but

612
00:34:17,521 --> 00:34:20,521
Speaker 1: she saw those calls, she saw the things, and she

613
00:34:20,681 --> 00:34:24,681
Speaker 1: knew that that I didn't pick them up on the street.

614
00:34:24,761 --> 00:34:27,161
Speaker 1: I mean, you know what I mean. She wasn't dumb,

615
00:34:27,281 --> 00:34:29,801
Speaker 1: so but we needn't never really had a discussion about

616
00:34:30,401 --> 00:34:33,241
Speaker 1: how I got a hold of them, and you know

617
00:34:33,361 --> 00:34:36,121
Speaker 1: the legality of it all and all those things. But

618
00:34:36,201 --> 00:34:39,561
Speaker 1: she knew that I had the cravings.

619
00:34:39,961 --> 00:34:43,161
Speaker 3: So this was not like if someone has a sexual fantasy,

620
00:34:43,481 --> 00:34:44,921
Speaker 3: this was your sexual fantasy.

621
00:34:45,281 --> 00:34:48,921
Speaker 1: This this changed you on. Yeah, yeah, that was the

622
00:34:48,961 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: thing that was a motivation, a drive. When I'm talking

623
00:34:54,001 --> 00:34:56,961
Speaker 1: about the manic phase, that that was that too. You know,

624
00:34:57,081 --> 00:35:01,241
Speaker 1: it was accelerated all this and going deeper and deeper

625
00:35:01,281 --> 00:35:05,441
Speaker 1: in those things. The blood, you know, everything was into twine.

626
00:35:06,041 --> 00:35:10,601
Speaker 1: It was messy, let's say, very messy, very dark. Definitely

627
00:35:10,641 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: not fifty shades of gray, I don't think so. Yeah.

628
00:35:18,161 --> 00:35:23,121
Speaker 1: Were you a sexual person? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, very much.

629
00:35:23,201 --> 00:35:26,201
Speaker 1: And the blood helped it too. I mean, it's like

630
00:35:26,481 --> 00:35:28,561
Speaker 1: it really does something to your drive.

631
00:35:29,441 --> 00:35:32,161
Speaker 3: So when you when you were getting intimate with a partner,

632
00:35:33,201 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 3: a partner, would you both hurt each other to get

633
00:35:37,001 --> 00:35:37,761
Speaker 3: turned on by that?

634
00:35:37,841 --> 00:35:42,081
Speaker 1: By that? I was more into drinking her blood than mine.

635
00:35:42,761 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes we shed, but it was more like, so put

636
00:35:46,521 --> 00:35:49,081
Speaker 1: me fruit, so like it. How would you get the

637
00:35:49,121 --> 00:35:52,761
Speaker 1: blood from hair while being intimate with her? So the

638
00:35:53,121 --> 00:35:56,481
Speaker 1: as I told you, insolents needles that I used a lot,

639
00:35:56,761 --> 00:35:59,841
Speaker 1: and to prick little pearls of blood on the skin

640
00:36:00,201 --> 00:36:04,081
Speaker 1: the surface. Kid. I can go into more details, but

641
00:36:05,481 --> 00:36:09,041
Speaker 1: that would get you banned for the reel shoes. So

642
00:36:09,361 --> 00:36:10,441
Speaker 1: let's not get into that.

643
00:36:13,241 --> 00:36:16,881
Speaker 3: Let's go a couple of days before you found this victim,

644
00:36:17,361 --> 00:36:18,361
Speaker 3: that you were about it.

645
00:36:18,681 --> 00:36:19,241
Speaker 1: It's a kill.

646
00:36:19,841 --> 00:36:24,481
Speaker 3: Talk me through it on how the progress of working

647
00:36:24,561 --> 00:36:27,681
Speaker 3: your way up to that day and how you pick,

648
00:36:27,841 --> 00:36:28,641
Speaker 3: and how you picked this?

649
00:36:28,761 --> 00:36:31,921
Speaker 1: Perse why this pass? As I told you that the

650
00:36:32,081 --> 00:36:36,281
Speaker 1: girl I was dating then she was a professional domainiatrix,

651
00:36:36,561 --> 00:36:40,721
Speaker 1: and she was using this terminal called minitail. It was

652
00:36:40,801 --> 00:36:42,921
Speaker 1: a device that was used at the time in front

653
00:36:43,721 --> 00:36:48,321
Speaker 1: to leave ads via a network online. So it wasn't

654
00:36:48,401 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: the Internet yet. It was a network that was going

655
00:36:51,601 --> 00:36:54,481
Speaker 1: from phone to phone, if you will, but you were

656
00:36:54,601 --> 00:36:57,601
Speaker 1: using a screen. You would type the ad and people

657
00:36:57,761 --> 00:37:02,361
Speaker 1: would connect to their own terminal and read the ads,

658
00:37:02,441 --> 00:37:05,321
Speaker 1: and if they were interested, they would call the number

659
00:37:05,401 --> 00:37:07,881
Speaker 1: that you left on the ad and they would give

660
00:37:07,961 --> 00:37:09,881
Speaker 1: you an appointment. So she did had this is how

661
00:37:09,961 --> 00:37:13,321
Speaker 1: she got her appointments with clients. Sometimes I would wait

662
00:37:13,401 --> 00:37:16,361
Speaker 1: outside the apartment just to make sure that everything was

663
00:37:16,401 --> 00:37:19,561
Speaker 1: going all right. And I developed this idea of using

664
00:37:19,641 --> 00:37:24,401
Speaker 1: the very same terminal to contact a guy on the minuter,

665
00:37:24,641 --> 00:37:28,921
Speaker 1: but pretending I was way younger than I was pretended

666
00:37:29,001 --> 00:37:32,921
Speaker 1: to be sixteen. So that and again we're talking about

667
00:37:33,001 --> 00:37:37,001
Speaker 1: more justification. My moral justification was that I was actually

668
00:37:37,121 --> 00:37:40,801
Speaker 1: targeting announced, I felt more justified to do it, if

669
00:37:40,841 --> 00:37:43,441
Speaker 1: you will, kind of like the Snowtown killers in Australia.

670
00:37:43,561 --> 00:37:47,281
Speaker 1: You know the story, Yeah, you know the first victims,

671
00:37:47,881 --> 00:37:50,481
Speaker 1: they said that they were announces, and this is why

672
00:37:50,561 --> 00:37:54,321
Speaker 1: they targeted. Of course, the real justification wasn't that, and

673
00:37:54,441 --> 00:37:57,401
Speaker 1: this is why you know it developed into what it became.

674
00:37:57,801 --> 00:37:59,361
Speaker 1: But for me it was the same. I was in

675
00:37:59,481 --> 00:38:02,681
Speaker 1: my mind, I was doing this. It wasn't even the

676
00:38:02,801 --> 00:38:05,721
Speaker 1: more justification. It was just that I thought that the

677
00:38:05,801 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: police wouldn't look into the investigation and covered the investigation

678
00:38:10,401 --> 00:38:13,001
Speaker 1: like a normal investigation. They would find out that he

679
00:38:13,161 --> 00:38:16,601
Speaker 1: was announce and they wouldn't care so much as well.

680
00:38:17,001 --> 00:38:20,601
Speaker 1: So it was as again, a logic behind the manners.

681
00:38:20,881 --> 00:38:23,201
Speaker 1: So when did it happened? Where did this happen? It

682
00:38:23,321 --> 00:38:26,681
Speaker 1: take place? So I and that's the crazy thing. I

683
00:38:27,281 --> 00:38:30,801
Speaker 1: plased this ad. I got to reply half an hour after.

684
00:38:31,241 --> 00:38:35,081
Speaker 1: I gave this guy a telephone number, but that was

685
00:38:35,161 --> 00:38:39,001
Speaker 1: from a public Boos waited outside the boos picked up

686
00:38:39,041 --> 00:38:42,081
Speaker 1: the call. He gave me his address, went there like

687
00:38:42,201 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: half an hour hour later. It was noon. He opened

688
00:38:45,561 --> 00:38:48,001
Speaker 1: the door. I shot him as soon as he closed

689
00:38:48,041 --> 00:38:50,201
Speaker 1: the door behind him. So he closed the door, he

690
00:38:50,321 --> 00:38:52,641
Speaker 1: turned towards him and I raised my gun and I

691
00:38:52,681 --> 00:38:56,401
Speaker 1: shot him in the face. Yeah, So there was no talking,

692
00:38:56,561 --> 00:39:00,201
Speaker 1: just you just knew straightway from the door. Absolutely no interaction.

693
00:39:00,361 --> 00:39:03,001
Speaker 1: I wasn't interested in talking of small talk or anything.

694
00:39:03,001 --> 00:39:05,681
Speaker 1: I just wanted to kill him, what the fuck? And

695
00:39:05,801 --> 00:39:08,001
Speaker 1: the idea, as I told you, was to get larger

696
00:39:08,041 --> 00:39:11,721
Speaker 1: pieces of meat. But so it took longer than I

697
00:39:11,841 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: thought it would take because I used the twenty two

698
00:39:14,921 --> 00:39:18,361
Speaker 1: caliber handgun that you had to reload each time. That

699
00:39:18,521 --> 00:39:21,601
Speaker 1: was the only gun I could legally get back then

700
00:39:21,801 --> 00:39:24,121
Speaker 1: in France, So that's the gun I used, and I

701
00:39:24,201 --> 00:39:27,441
Speaker 1: had to reshoot five or six times in the end,

702
00:39:27,481 --> 00:39:30,521
Speaker 1: and it took about ten or fifteen minutes for him

703
00:39:30,561 --> 00:39:35,161
Speaker 1: to actually die. No neighbors here, Well, that's the thing,

704
00:39:35,241 --> 00:39:38,481
Speaker 1: that's the thing. It was the noon, the door was closed.

705
00:39:38,481 --> 00:39:43,521
Speaker 1: But after yeah, ten minutes, I heard some really fast footsteps,

706
00:39:44,241 --> 00:39:48,081
Speaker 1: and I decided not to try to actually get the meat,

707
00:39:48,561 --> 00:39:51,281
Speaker 1: and that I had to get out of here as

708
00:39:51,321 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: soon as possible, so I left. Yeah.

709
00:39:54,681 --> 00:39:59,041
Speaker 3: So would you would you say that killing was really

710
00:39:59,361 --> 00:40:02,121
Speaker 3: pointless or because you didn't get what you wanted?

711
00:40:02,801 --> 00:40:05,641
Speaker 1: So it wasn't pointless because I actually don't that I

712
00:40:05,721 --> 00:40:09,401
Speaker 1: really wanted to do so, But it's true that I

713
00:40:09,561 --> 00:40:13,361
Speaker 1: considered it like some kind of rehearsal for something else.

714
00:40:14,001 --> 00:40:17,361
Speaker 1: So the intent was to start again after a cool

715
00:40:17,441 --> 00:40:21,001
Speaker 1: down period, but I was ready to strike again, yeah,

716
00:40:22,121 --> 00:40:24,921
Speaker 1: because I was also looking if there was anything in

717
00:40:25,041 --> 00:40:31,321
Speaker 1: the newspapers, if they had any clue or anything. Natively,

718
00:40:31,441 --> 00:40:35,481
Speaker 1: I thought that they just weren't really interested in the

719
00:40:35,561 --> 00:40:39,321
Speaker 1: case and weren't really investigating. They were investigating. They were

720
00:40:39,481 --> 00:40:44,201
Speaker 1: taking this extremely seriously and I was arrested months after.

721
00:40:45,201 --> 00:40:47,681
Speaker 1: How did they get you? What for? What? What? How

722
00:40:47,761 --> 00:40:52,921
Speaker 1: did they suspect you? So I used his id that

723
00:40:53,081 --> 00:40:57,081
Speaker 1: I gotten to purchase a camera because I wanted to

724
00:40:57,161 --> 00:41:00,081
Speaker 1: film the next one. So I went to a store

725
00:41:00,161 --> 00:41:02,161
Speaker 1: and I use his idea to film a camera, which

726
00:41:02,281 --> 00:41:05,201
Speaker 1: was not very bright idea, but at the time time

727
00:41:05,281 --> 00:41:08,361
Speaker 1: I wasn't really thinking clearly at the time when you

728
00:41:09,121 --> 00:41:13,241
Speaker 1: objectively look at things, So for me it was just impunity.

729
00:41:13,321 --> 00:41:15,401
Speaker 1: I just could get away with it. Of course, the

730
00:41:15,481 --> 00:41:18,721
Speaker 1: guy at the counter, he photocopied my photo that I

731
00:41:18,801 --> 00:41:24,561
Speaker 1: put on the driver's license, and this photo was in

732
00:41:24,681 --> 00:41:28,961
Speaker 1: every single police station in Paris four months. And then

733
00:41:29,041 --> 00:41:31,801
Speaker 1: I was hanging up outside of the club waiting for

734
00:41:31,921 --> 00:41:36,161
Speaker 1: someone and a guy from the police who recognized me

735
00:41:36,321 --> 00:41:38,721
Speaker 1: and they called the crime squad and arresting me in

736
00:41:38,801 --> 00:41:42,641
Speaker 1: front of that club, which was right next to the Mula,

737
00:41:43,761 --> 00:41:47,441
Speaker 1: you know, the famous club. So what were the charges

738
00:41:47,561 --> 00:41:49,881
Speaker 1: for that? What did they get you for that one?

739
00:41:50,521 --> 00:41:53,401
Speaker 1: So first they thought it was a simple robbery case,

740
00:41:53,721 --> 00:41:58,201
Speaker 1: that I went there just to to you know, steal things,

741
00:41:58,281 --> 00:42:01,001
Speaker 1: and that it had gone wrong, if you will, that

742
00:42:01,161 --> 00:42:02,881
Speaker 1: I panicked and I shot in. And this is the

743
00:42:02,961 --> 00:42:05,921
Speaker 1: first version I gave them during the custody because I

744
00:42:06,001 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: had to feel fast. I didn't want them to find

745
00:42:08,041 --> 00:42:10,481
Speaker 1: out about other things that I had in my head

746
00:42:10,561 --> 00:42:14,921
Speaker 1: ortherwise I would be totally fucked. So I gave them

747
00:42:15,121 --> 00:42:18,361
Speaker 1: this version. But of course when they searched my place,

748
00:42:18,441 --> 00:42:20,761
Speaker 1: they found all those things, you know, the blood bags,

749
00:42:21,361 --> 00:42:24,721
Speaker 1: and they went completely silent. And then this is when

750
00:42:24,801 --> 00:42:27,841
Speaker 1: the real investigation because they thought that I had done more.

751
00:42:28,441 --> 00:42:31,681
Speaker 1: So the first newspapers about the case, yeah, they mentioned

752
00:42:31,721 --> 00:42:35,201
Speaker 1: the fact that, yeah, he's probably connected to other things,

753
00:42:35,241 --> 00:42:39,401
Speaker 1: because there were like seven other similar murders in that

754
00:42:39,561 --> 00:42:43,281
Speaker 1: period short period, so they tried to you know, look

755
00:42:43,321 --> 00:42:46,481
Speaker 1: into those. They didn't find any collection or anything, so

756
00:42:46,601 --> 00:42:51,041
Speaker 1: they focused on that case. Then this is when the judge,

757
00:42:51,081 --> 00:42:53,801
Speaker 1: because there's a judge that's supported it to the case

758
00:42:53,881 --> 00:42:59,121
Speaker 1: to determine all the psychiatric evaluations. Blah blah blah. He

759
00:42:59,321 --> 00:43:05,321
Speaker 1: understood that it was probably psychic case. So with is

760
00:43:05,521 --> 00:43:09,481
Speaker 1: like five or six different experts. So it lasted two

761
00:43:09,561 --> 00:43:13,881
Speaker 1: years because it was a whide in France, instruction they

762
00:43:13,961 --> 00:43:17,041
Speaker 1: call it the instruction of the case. At the end

763
00:43:17,161 --> 00:43:22,641
Speaker 1: of these two years, they decided that I still should

764
00:43:22,721 --> 00:43:25,721
Speaker 1: be judged, but with what they call the ministry responsibility

765
00:43:25,801 --> 00:43:29,001
Speaker 1: because of the mental state where I was in at

766
00:43:29,041 --> 00:43:33,121
Speaker 1: the time of the murder, which was a manic phase

767
00:43:33,601 --> 00:43:38,361
Speaker 1: of what they called skisotypical personality disorder.

768
00:43:39,641 --> 00:43:44,601
Speaker 3: In the two years this is going on, are you thinking, one,

769
00:43:44,761 --> 00:43:47,041
Speaker 3: this is fucking me up because I had things in

770
00:43:47,121 --> 00:43:48,081
Speaker 3: my head that I needed to do.

771
00:43:48,641 --> 00:43:51,801
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, is it totally fucking with your head? Oh?

772
00:43:51,881 --> 00:43:55,961
Speaker 1: I was kind of relieved that that stopped me right before,

773
00:43:56,081 --> 00:43:59,081
Speaker 1: because I knew that given the circumstances of the case,

774
00:43:59,601 --> 00:44:03,681
Speaker 1: I wouldn't get a life sentence. Yeah, because of what

775
00:44:04,241 --> 00:44:09,121
Speaker 1: the psychiatrists and the psychologists determined. So I knew that

776
00:44:09,321 --> 00:44:13,561
Speaker 1: there was two choices, determined that I was totally unable

777
00:44:13,641 --> 00:44:16,721
Speaker 1: to understand the nature of right and wrong, and then

778
00:44:16,801 --> 00:44:21,681
Speaker 1: sent to a psychiatry hospital. It's called abolished responsibility. I

779
00:44:21,761 --> 00:44:25,761
Speaker 1: think the term is abolished or they would find what

780
00:44:25,921 --> 00:44:29,601
Speaker 1: they call diminished responsibility, which is something else means that

781
00:44:29,761 --> 00:44:33,241
Speaker 1: you are responsible but not to a full degree, and

782
00:44:33,641 --> 00:44:35,801
Speaker 1: you are sentenced to a prison term. But the prison

783
00:44:35,921 --> 00:44:39,801
Speaker 1: term cannot be the same as if you are fully

784
00:44:40,361 --> 00:44:43,241
Speaker 1: aware of what you're doing, if you will, So it's

785
00:44:43,281 --> 00:44:45,561
Speaker 1: a thing that's typical of French law and all that.

786
00:44:45,721 --> 00:44:48,401
Speaker 1: Most people in the US who know case, they're like, oh, yeah,

787
00:44:48,481 --> 00:44:51,041
Speaker 1: you should fucking be put on death for this guy

788
00:44:51,121 --> 00:44:53,761
Speaker 1: for what he has done. It's not the same not

789
00:44:53,881 --> 00:44:56,601
Speaker 1: the same culture, it's not the same country. And what

790
00:44:56,721 --> 00:45:00,081
Speaker 1: I tell to people from other countries who think that

791
00:45:00,801 --> 00:45:04,121
Speaker 1: antitle to judge my case, I tell them it's not

792
00:45:04,281 --> 00:45:08,601
Speaker 1: your country. I didn't kill somebody in your countries, So relaxed.

793
00:45:08,641 --> 00:45:12,841
Speaker 1: Maybe I was sentenced by a jury, so a popular jury,

794
00:45:12,961 --> 00:45:15,361
Speaker 1: whether you agree or not, they decided to set out

795
00:45:15,681 --> 00:45:20,201
Speaker 1: twelve years of prison. That was Foden the right sentence

796
00:45:20,321 --> 00:45:23,561
Speaker 1: for this type of crime. They also, of course, in

797
00:45:24,161 --> 00:45:27,841
Speaker 1: consideration the fact that this person had actually contacted me

798
00:45:28,121 --> 00:45:32,161
Speaker 1: thinking I was a minor, so they took that into consideration.

799
00:45:33,281 --> 00:45:38,841
Speaker 1: But of course, the prosecution tried to say that I

800
00:45:38,961 --> 00:45:42,721
Speaker 1: should stay as much as possible in prison because I

801
00:45:42,921 --> 00:45:46,121
Speaker 1: could pose a risk once released. So there was that.

802
00:45:46,881 --> 00:45:51,521
Speaker 1: So my lawyer did a really good job. Instead of

803
00:45:51,641 --> 00:45:55,081
Speaker 1: getting the maximum in that case, which is twenty years

804
00:45:55,121 --> 00:45:59,401
Speaker 1: in France, he got me twelve years. At the time.

805
00:45:59,521 --> 00:46:04,161
Speaker 1: Then you had no remorse for what you did, did you. Yeah? No, No,

806
00:46:04,441 --> 00:46:09,241
Speaker 1: it wasn't for me. It was just another idea of Yeah.

807
00:46:09,881 --> 00:46:14,681
Speaker 1: For me, it was a process, an escalation into something

808
00:46:15,161 --> 00:46:18,401
Speaker 1: and into something that I was extremely focused on doing.

809
00:46:18,521 --> 00:46:21,201
Speaker 1: That's the thing, you know, you're extremely focused on those things. Yeah,

810
00:46:21,521 --> 00:46:25,561
Speaker 1: So even the start, when I was in prison or

811
00:46:25,721 --> 00:46:28,521
Speaker 1: just waiting for my releas to start over again, that's

812
00:46:28,561 --> 00:46:30,561
Speaker 1: what I had in mind. And at least I'm honest

813
00:46:30,561 --> 00:46:32,961
Speaker 1: about it, because most people will tell you, oh, yeah,

814
00:46:33,001 --> 00:46:35,601
Speaker 1: I found God, I found Jesus when I was in prison,

815
00:46:35,641 --> 00:46:38,641
Speaker 1: blah blah blah to get a lie to sentence. Fuck. No, No,

816
00:46:39,481 --> 00:46:42,401
Speaker 1: I'm honest about myself. I know where I am. But

817
00:46:43,241 --> 00:46:46,081
Speaker 1: with prison, I understood that it was this world that

818
00:46:46,361 --> 00:46:51,081
Speaker 1: was leading against humanity. I would always lose it whatever

819
00:46:51,361 --> 00:46:56,641
Speaker 1: I did. You know it because it's you against the world.

820
00:46:57,401 --> 00:47:02,361
Speaker 1: And either you understand that it will only lead to

821
00:47:02,801 --> 00:47:07,201
Speaker 1: prison or the sack world, and you decide to turn

822
00:47:07,281 --> 00:47:10,561
Speaker 1: your life around, or you you're stubborn and you decide

823
00:47:10,601 --> 00:47:14,401
Speaker 1: that we'll just go back to your old ways, which

824
00:47:15,281 --> 00:47:18,841
Speaker 1: I think I did enough work on me to avoid that,

825
00:47:19,441 --> 00:47:22,921
Speaker 1: to find a better outlet for this. And I understood

826
00:47:23,521 --> 00:47:28,481
Speaker 1: early on that by creating stuff through painting, through writing,

827
00:47:29,041 --> 00:47:31,201
Speaker 1: that was an outlet for me to direct all this

828
00:47:31,481 --> 00:47:37,081
Speaker 1: energy and all those foots, those negative thoughts into something positive,

829
00:47:37,161 --> 00:47:40,121
Speaker 1: positive for me. But also I think positive for the

830
00:47:40,201 --> 00:47:43,361
Speaker 1: reasons because there's the thing about my books. I've write

831
00:47:43,361 --> 00:47:45,641
Speaker 1: a lot about through crime. I've write a lot about

832
00:47:45,921 --> 00:47:49,481
Speaker 1: other killers, and I put myself in the shoes. That's

833
00:47:49,521 --> 00:47:52,641
Speaker 1: something that nobody else can do. Right. Most through crime

834
00:47:52,681 --> 00:47:55,361
Speaker 1: books that are written by journalists, they've written by cops,

835
00:47:55,361 --> 00:47:58,721
Speaker 1: They've written by you know, people more or less who

836
00:47:58,761 --> 00:48:02,281
Speaker 1: had access to certain documents. In the case, my unique

837
00:48:02,281 --> 00:48:06,441
Speaker 1: perspective is like I can get inside their head. I

838
00:48:06,521 --> 00:48:08,681
Speaker 1: no more or less what's inside the head. You know,

839
00:48:08,801 --> 00:48:11,401
Speaker 1: I can give you a windows in their head. So

840
00:48:11,521 --> 00:48:13,361
Speaker 1: this is why I think people like my books. It's

841
00:48:13,441 --> 00:48:16,961
Speaker 1: because you know, they got this unique perspective and this

842
00:48:17,361 --> 00:48:21,281
Speaker 1: is also this unique perspective that later on, this unique

843
00:48:21,321 --> 00:48:25,841
Speaker 1: perspective also led me this position now in twenty twenty

844
00:48:25,961 --> 00:48:29,521
Speaker 1: six of being the creator of an international expert that

845
00:48:29,561 --> 00:48:33,001
Speaker 1: goes around the world about here curious because I present

846
00:48:33,281 --> 00:48:38,241
Speaker 1: those cases not only from the criminology standpoint, but also

847
00:48:38,921 --> 00:48:42,761
Speaker 1: I try to make the public understand why they react

848
00:48:42,841 --> 00:48:46,201
Speaker 1: that way or why they choose that certain type of

849
00:48:46,361 --> 00:48:49,001
Speaker 1: it teams, et cetera. And it's kind of important. It's

850
00:48:49,121 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: kind of the mission that I have now.

851
00:48:51,561 --> 00:48:55,121
Speaker 3: Before we go on about other stuff, going back to

852
00:48:55,641 --> 00:48:57,641
Speaker 3: when you walked in that because that was that was

853
00:48:57,721 --> 00:48:58,801
Speaker 3: fucking insane.

854
00:48:58,881 --> 00:49:01,481
Speaker 1: When you told me you didn't even speak to him.

855
00:49:01,601 --> 00:49:03,601
Speaker 1: You open the door and you shot a point plank

856
00:49:03,721 --> 00:49:08,521
Speaker 1: range and he is still alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he

857
00:49:08,681 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: was dying. So the first shot was fatal. I didn't

858
00:49:12,041 --> 00:49:15,961
Speaker 1: know that, of course, but he was actually dying. So

859
00:49:16,081 --> 00:49:18,401
Speaker 1: I watched him die. Actually you just watched it die.

860
00:49:18,561 --> 00:49:22,561
Speaker 1: I sat down, sat down, looked, got up, shut another round,

861
00:49:23,041 --> 00:49:27,561
Speaker 1: sat down, look observed. Yeah. I know it sounds extremely

862
00:49:27,681 --> 00:49:31,441
Speaker 1: cool like that, but that's the reality. I'm not trying

863
00:49:31,521 --> 00:49:34,601
Speaker 1: to Was he saying anything at the time, No, he

864
00:49:34,721 --> 00:49:39,121
Speaker 1: was dying. Trying to breathe, trying to breeze. Actually, that

865
00:49:39,441 --> 00:49:41,921
Speaker 1: was fascinating for me because it was a very long

866
00:49:42,001 --> 00:49:44,761
Speaker 1: process of trying to breathe, et cetera.

867
00:49:44,921 --> 00:49:47,361
Speaker 3: You you're more getting you're more getting off on it

868
00:49:47,601 --> 00:49:49,241
Speaker 3: watching him get his last breath.

869
00:49:49,961 --> 00:49:54,161
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was purely sadistic. Wow, uh, not

870
00:49:54,761 --> 00:49:57,641
Speaker 1: in no way that you're actually stabbing the person. You know,

871
00:49:57,761 --> 00:50:02,321
Speaker 1: we're just watching watching the person do do that. I

872
00:50:02,441 --> 00:50:06,401
Speaker 1: know it sounds extra, extremely grim and that's insane, that's

873
00:50:06,521 --> 00:50:10,761
Speaker 1: fucking but that's the reality. And this is why when

874
00:50:11,401 --> 00:50:14,281
Speaker 1: I describe how that Bundy killed the victims, I can

875
00:50:14,361 --> 00:50:17,681
Speaker 1: tell you exactly how he killed them and what he

876
00:50:17,801 --> 00:50:20,641
Speaker 1: was feeling when he was doing them. There's this emptiness

877
00:50:20,721 --> 00:50:24,361
Speaker 1: inside you and you're just observing you. It's like a

878
00:50:24,521 --> 00:50:28,161
Speaker 1: medical experiment in a way. Yeah, it's it's really cool.

879
00:50:29,201 --> 00:50:31,641
Speaker 1: How were you in jail? Did you get any of

880
00:50:31,721 --> 00:50:35,081
Speaker 1: these thoughts in jail about killing the inmates? No, because

881
00:50:35,121 --> 00:50:39,881
Speaker 1: some of them, I surprisingly I got along with some

882
00:50:40,041 --> 00:50:42,761
Speaker 1: of them. So you started so in prison you actually

883
00:50:42,881 --> 00:50:47,041
Speaker 1: started to make friends. Yeah, because you're actually in the

884
00:50:47,121 --> 00:50:50,081
Speaker 1: middle of people who've done worse than you. In the

885
00:50:50,161 --> 00:50:52,521
Speaker 1: prison where I was. There was several guys who had

886
00:50:52,681 --> 00:50:57,401
Speaker 1: killed like ten fifteen people. So yeah, sometimes we had

887
00:50:57,481 --> 00:51:00,601
Speaker 1: really long conversation about their case, about my case, about

888
00:51:00,681 --> 00:51:03,041
Speaker 1: how he killed the people and how you would yeah,

889
00:51:03,201 --> 00:51:05,601
Speaker 1: oh okay, yeah exactly. There was a guy, for example,

890
00:51:05,641 --> 00:51:08,721
Speaker 1: he killed like five women and he drank some of

891
00:51:08,801 --> 00:51:11,321
Speaker 1: the blood, so we talked about that at length. Sometimes

892
00:51:11,361 --> 00:51:14,081
Speaker 1: he's dead now, this guy. But yeah, this is some

893
00:51:14,241 --> 00:51:16,841
Speaker 1: of the conversations I had with them because we are

894
00:51:16,921 --> 00:51:19,281
Speaker 1: not judging them. They're not judging me, so it's not

895
00:51:19,441 --> 00:51:22,921
Speaker 1: like they're talking to a psychiatrists or even their own family.

896
00:51:23,081 --> 00:51:25,161
Speaker 1: You know. They try to have this image where, oh,

897
00:51:25,281 --> 00:51:27,721
Speaker 1: you know, I regret, but I don't know deep inside.

898
00:51:27,761 --> 00:51:30,361
Speaker 1: I never met a serial tuy who was ever regretted

899
00:51:30,441 --> 00:51:32,401
Speaker 1: what they don't publicly, they will tell you yes, I

900
00:51:32,441 --> 00:51:35,161
Speaker 1: found Jesus, Yes, this and that and blah blah blah. No,

901
00:51:35,521 --> 00:51:37,441
Speaker 1: they're still the same, you know, and they still relieve

902
00:51:37,481 --> 00:51:40,241
Speaker 1: the past. And when you tell them exactly what happened

903
00:51:40,721 --> 00:51:43,961
Speaker 1: with that particular victim, it's like they're playing a VHS

904
00:51:44,561 --> 00:51:46,881
Speaker 1: in their brain. They're relieving it. And they would tell

905
00:51:46,881 --> 00:51:49,881
Speaker 1: you how would smell, like how the color of the wallpaper,

906
00:51:50,441 --> 00:51:52,521
Speaker 1: you know, all those small details, and they never tell

907
00:51:52,601 --> 00:51:55,961
Speaker 1: the cop Wow, yeah, because it's impretty. You know that

908
00:51:56,081 --> 00:51:59,801
Speaker 1: the experience is impretty, because the emotions, the things that

909
00:51:59,801 --> 00:52:04,081
Speaker 1: are so intense, if you will that, they they're imprinted

910
00:52:04,161 --> 00:52:07,041
Speaker 1: forever in the break. But that's a long time for

911
00:52:07,081 --> 00:52:09,961
Speaker 1: you to be in prison twelve years and not have

912
00:52:10,201 --> 00:52:14,881
Speaker 1: that fantasy that you've been craving for every day. At first,

913
00:52:14,961 --> 00:52:18,241
Speaker 1: I would cut myself sometimes, you know, with the big

914
00:52:18,401 --> 00:52:21,081
Speaker 1: razors that I would break. So I did that for

915
00:52:21,161 --> 00:52:25,521
Speaker 1: a while. Then I don't know, I focusing on other things.

916
00:52:25,641 --> 00:52:29,561
Speaker 1: I started doing it less and less. Maybe I don't know,

917
00:52:30,641 --> 00:52:33,121
Speaker 1: but yeah, the fantasies were still there. Sometimes I would

918
00:52:33,161 --> 00:52:35,961
Speaker 1: be thinking about it, but not doing them in prison,

919
00:52:36,041 --> 00:52:41,601
Speaker 1: because you can't really do them in prison without physic consequences. Sometimes, yeah,

920
00:52:41,761 --> 00:52:45,241
Speaker 1: and so when somebody was especially annoying, you will be like, okay,

921
00:52:45,361 --> 00:52:47,881
Speaker 1: I have to stab in somewhere in the gym or somewhere,

922
00:52:47,921 --> 00:52:49,841
Speaker 1: and you're thinking about it. You know, it's on the

923
00:52:49,921 --> 00:52:53,721
Speaker 1: back of your mind, but you're still thinking about your

924
00:52:53,841 --> 00:52:56,921
Speaker 1: release day. Did you get into any altercations while you

925
00:52:56,921 --> 00:53:00,521
Speaker 1: weren't they I was in the middle of an altercation

926
00:53:00,801 --> 00:53:03,681
Speaker 1: in the gym because one guy wanted to beat another

927
00:53:03,761 --> 00:53:07,681
Speaker 1: guy with the barbers or since I was at that time,

928
00:53:07,761 --> 00:53:10,641
Speaker 1: they put me in charge of the gym. I tried

929
00:53:10,681 --> 00:53:12,601
Speaker 1: to stop them at time, and I nearly got the

930
00:53:12,641 --> 00:53:16,441
Speaker 1: barble on me, but I skipped it and they ended up,

931
00:53:16,481 --> 00:53:20,521
Speaker 1: you know, fighting somewhere else in the courtyard. But know,

932
00:53:20,761 --> 00:53:26,521
Speaker 1: I nothing physical verbal sometimes, but that was in the

933
00:53:26,641 --> 00:53:29,681
Speaker 1: first weeks when I was in jail, and that's common

934
00:53:29,721 --> 00:53:32,961
Speaker 1: to everybody was new in jail. People shout because they

935
00:53:33,001 --> 00:53:35,481
Speaker 1: want to see your reactions, et cetera. But then, you know,

936
00:53:35,801 --> 00:53:38,281
Speaker 1: back then I had a few tattoos, and back then

937
00:53:38,321 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: in fronts, tattoos weren't a thing at all. So when

938
00:53:41,481 --> 00:53:43,881
Speaker 1: you got tattoos, people who thought that you were part

939
00:53:43,921 --> 00:53:47,361
Speaker 1: of a biky gang or something, so they wouldn't message

940
00:53:47,401 --> 00:53:50,081
Speaker 1: you with you basically even if they were not you know,

941
00:53:50,241 --> 00:53:53,201
Speaker 1: bikey related, they were like demons and hit like that.

942
00:53:53,881 --> 00:53:57,681
Speaker 1: People you know still thought that was collected to those people,

943
00:53:57,881 --> 00:54:01,161
Speaker 1: you know, so I didn't get any Plus, you know,

944
00:54:01,201 --> 00:54:03,961
Speaker 1: when you have a place like mine, people tend to

945
00:54:04,081 --> 00:54:07,081
Speaker 1: be you know, care for because they think that you

946
00:54:07,121 --> 00:54:10,321
Speaker 1: will bite their face off or something, so which I

947
00:54:10,441 --> 00:54:12,801
Speaker 1: might have done. You never know, you know, what the

948
00:54:12,881 --> 00:54:15,361
Speaker 1: what would the prison guys like with you? Oh? Yeah,

949
00:54:15,521 --> 00:54:19,321
Speaker 1: very distant. You know, usually even with long term prisoners,

950
00:54:19,441 --> 00:54:22,241
Speaker 1: they tried to build some kind of you know, small

951
00:54:22,321 --> 00:54:26,481
Speaker 1: talk thing routine. Never tried that with me. You know,

952
00:54:27,161 --> 00:54:30,841
Speaker 1: they didn't understand me. That's the thing. Most prison guards

953
00:54:30,921 --> 00:54:33,321
Speaker 1: that are trained to understand a sertain type of inmates,

954
00:54:33,441 --> 00:54:38,001
Speaker 1: you know, people who are you know, professional criminals and

955
00:54:38,601 --> 00:54:41,281
Speaker 1: you know, even rapists that they understand more or less

956
00:54:41,761 --> 00:54:44,801
Speaker 1: their dynamics, so they know how to react with them.

957
00:54:44,841 --> 00:54:45,721
Speaker 3: But I was.

958
00:54:45,801 --> 00:54:50,721
Speaker 1: Considered by the prison officials as what they call it psychopath,

959
00:54:51,081 --> 00:54:56,921
Speaker 1: so and those specific guides of image, which are not

960
00:54:57,121 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: that common in prison. You would think it's very common,

961
00:54:59,561 --> 00:55:05,881
Speaker 1: but no, real diagnosed psychopaths are extremely scarce, and they

962
00:55:06,041 --> 00:55:07,801
Speaker 1: don't really know how to deal with them because they

963
00:55:07,841 --> 00:55:10,521
Speaker 1: don't know what reaction they will get, so they just

964
00:55:10,641 --> 00:55:13,841
Speaker 1: stay away, be distant. And I didn't really try to

965
00:55:13,881 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: make friends with them. So and it's funny because years later,

966
00:55:17,921 --> 00:55:20,641
Speaker 1: when I was released, I got an email from one

967
00:55:20,681 --> 00:55:22,801
Speaker 1: of those gods and he said, yeah, I've been following

968
00:55:23,241 --> 00:55:26,681
Speaker 1: what you've been doing since you were released, and yeah,

969
00:55:27,041 --> 00:55:29,481
Speaker 1: I was one of the gods. You probably don't remember me,

970
00:55:29,681 --> 00:55:33,601
Speaker 1: but I want to say I was always was, you know,

971
00:55:33,921 --> 00:55:38,241
Speaker 1: something of how you would never mix to the prison

972
00:55:38,361 --> 00:55:41,121
Speaker 1: population and everybody was scared of you. He said something

973
00:55:41,201 --> 00:55:44,241
Speaker 1: like that. I was like, okay, I'll take it. What

974
00:55:44,401 --> 00:55:46,001
Speaker 1: was what was it? What was in your head that

975
00:55:46,121 --> 00:55:49,041
Speaker 1: you were going to do when you left prison? First? Yeah,

976
00:55:49,601 --> 00:55:53,121
Speaker 1: I was fighting very hard not to do things again.

977
00:55:54,081 --> 00:55:56,361
Speaker 1: That was the reality for me. For a few years.

978
00:55:56,961 --> 00:56:00,321
Speaker 1: I tried to find my fight, my own demons. So

979
00:56:00,641 --> 00:56:05,121
Speaker 1: I was constantly reminding myself that I know that that

980
00:56:05,281 --> 00:56:08,921
Speaker 1: wasn't good. This type, the little cop inside of me

981
00:56:09,201 --> 00:56:12,841
Speaker 1: was stronger than before. The crazy thing is that I

982
00:56:13,921 --> 00:56:18,921
Speaker 1: you know, I faked ID papers and I managed to

983
00:56:18,961 --> 00:56:21,561
Speaker 1: get a job in the morgue again. Wow for that

984
00:56:21,721 --> 00:56:24,561
Speaker 1: ten years. Yeah, Wow, that's a crazy thing. Yeah.

985
00:56:24,921 --> 00:56:28,201
Speaker 3: So you lay prison and you'll find the demage in

986
00:56:28,241 --> 00:56:30,321
Speaker 3: your head, but then you go back to your own

987
00:56:30,401 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 3: kind of job.

988
00:56:31,441 --> 00:56:35,161
Speaker 1: Yeah. Because that I felt that I didn't feel the

989
00:56:35,241 --> 00:56:37,401
Speaker 1: need to, you know, do the things that I used

990
00:56:37,441 --> 00:56:40,801
Speaker 1: to do, like take blood, take meat, et cetera. But

991
00:56:40,921 --> 00:56:44,041
Speaker 1: I just need the environment. I know it's a weird

992
00:56:44,481 --> 00:56:48,201
Speaker 1: thing to think, but I needed the energy, the death energy,

993
00:56:48,961 --> 00:56:51,961
Speaker 1: because I was still feeling the shadow of death. You know.

994
00:56:52,041 --> 00:56:54,521
Speaker 1: I always felt of death as a companion, as a

995
00:56:55,521 --> 00:57:00,041
Speaker 1: an older sister, if you will. And uh so, something

996
00:57:00,161 --> 00:57:04,281
Speaker 1: that's physical that's always standing next to me, like you know,

997
00:57:04,481 --> 00:57:07,961
Speaker 1: the green ray something. You know. I always felt feeling

998
00:57:08,641 --> 00:57:12,761
Speaker 1: Philip's presence, and I felt that by not doing this job,

999
00:57:12,841 --> 00:57:17,721
Speaker 1: I was betraying her. So yeah, And the crazy thing

1000
00:57:17,841 --> 00:57:21,481
Speaker 1: is those ten years where I was using fake ideas,

1001
00:57:21,561 --> 00:57:25,761
Speaker 1: fake papers, et cetera to work. Actually I never did

1002
00:57:25,921 --> 00:57:32,201
Speaker 1: anything illegal in that all, but I was bringing partners there,

1003
00:57:32,761 --> 00:57:35,321
Speaker 1: you know. I was doing stuff on the side, you know,

1004
00:57:36,721 --> 00:57:41,121
Speaker 1: so at the same time, it was not morally totally clean,

1005
00:57:42,561 --> 00:57:45,201
Speaker 1: but with the bodies themselves, there was nothing. It was

1006
00:57:45,401 --> 00:57:50,321
Speaker 1: just more using the place as my second home, if

1007
00:57:50,361 --> 00:57:55,201
Speaker 1: you will. So you had no fat I cut them

1008
00:57:55,241 --> 00:57:57,681
Speaker 1: open or eat them after when you no, no, no,

1009
00:57:57,881 --> 00:58:00,041
Speaker 1: no finish. It was more about the environment. This is

1010
00:58:00,081 --> 00:58:02,281
Speaker 1: why I brought partners there because it was coffee.

1011
00:58:02,321 --> 00:58:04,241
Speaker 3: Okay, So what would you do with the partners they

1012
00:58:04,401 --> 00:58:06,801
Speaker 3: like without getting next rated here?

1013
00:58:06,841 --> 00:58:10,881
Speaker 1: And what would you do in a mold with a partner? Coffins,

1014
00:58:10,921 --> 00:58:14,561
Speaker 1: autopsy tables, you know, sometimes some of them, and I

1015
00:58:14,721 --> 00:58:17,841
Speaker 1: know it's sweat, but the fantasies of being locked inside

1016
00:58:18,401 --> 00:58:23,681
Speaker 1: for a few seconds and taken out the thing. Yeah,

1017
00:58:23,721 --> 00:58:26,841
Speaker 1: I know, there's some girls who are too weird stuff.

1018
00:58:26,961 --> 00:58:29,721
Speaker 1: It's actually girls you want to be locked in a

1019
00:58:29,761 --> 00:58:32,801
Speaker 1: fucking coffin, yeah, yea. And they got off on there

1020
00:58:33,601 --> 00:58:36,281
Speaker 1: definitely big time. Yeah, And that's that's not even getting

1021
00:58:36,321 --> 00:58:37,721
Speaker 1: sexual with them. They just want to be locked up

1022
00:58:37,721 --> 00:58:42,481
Speaker 1: in a coffin. Yeah. Well, the sex happens after. And

1023
00:58:42,641 --> 00:58:44,721
Speaker 1: you know, I'm in a position because of my position.

1024
00:58:45,681 --> 00:58:48,001
Speaker 1: You know, people who have those fantasies to contact me

1025
00:58:48,561 --> 00:58:51,721
Speaker 1: easily on the internet, really, you know what I mean. So,

1026
00:58:52,481 --> 00:58:55,161
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's weird of fantasy.

1027
00:58:54,881 --> 00:58:58,641
Speaker 3: Like I'm gonna ask, did anyone call you to have

1028
00:58:58,841 --> 00:59:01,641
Speaker 3: sexual intercourse with dead bodies?

1029
00:59:02,961 --> 00:59:05,881
Speaker 1: No? No, no, And I would ever said no because

1030
00:59:05,881 --> 00:59:09,681
Speaker 1: it first, it's not my thing. First, and second it's

1031
00:59:09,881 --> 00:59:14,441
Speaker 1: those people would do that. It's a specific type of fetish.

1032
00:59:15,201 --> 00:59:18,961
Speaker 1: And they are extremely because I have studied cases like that,

1033
00:59:19,081 --> 00:59:23,121
Speaker 1: they're extremely lonely individuals. And it's not about most of

1034
00:59:23,201 --> 00:59:25,281
Speaker 1: the time, it's not even about the fetish itself, is

1035
00:59:25,361 --> 00:59:28,721
Speaker 1: the sense of loneliness. So they want to keep a

1036
00:59:28,801 --> 00:59:32,201
Speaker 1: partner that they keep. For example, Dahmer, Jeffrey Dahmer, he

1037
00:59:32,201 --> 00:59:34,681
Speaker 1: would kill them just to keep the bodies for a

1038
00:59:34,721 --> 00:59:37,721
Speaker 1: few days so that they would leave him. There's this

1039
00:59:37,881 --> 00:59:41,081
Speaker 1: guy called das Nielsen in the UK who did the

1040
00:59:41,121 --> 00:59:44,001
Speaker 1: same before Dammer. So he killed the guys that he

1041
00:59:44,081 --> 00:59:46,681
Speaker 1: met at gay bars and he brought them, he had

1042
00:59:46,681 --> 00:59:49,121
Speaker 1: brought them to his place and he just strangled them

1043
00:59:49,241 --> 00:59:51,641
Speaker 1: just to keep them a few days because he was

1044
00:59:51,721 --> 00:59:56,201
Speaker 1: fighting this feeling of loneliness. It's a specific type of persons.

1045
00:59:56,801 --> 00:59:59,321
Speaker 1: They're not social at all. They try to be social

1046
00:59:59,521 --> 01:00:01,601
Speaker 1: just to get a victim and keep the vicheam for

1047
01:00:01,681 --> 01:00:04,681
Speaker 1: several days. So that's a very specific term. But what

1048
01:00:04,801 --> 01:00:08,761
Speaker 1: I god, which is not that at all. It's girls

1049
01:00:08,841 --> 01:00:14,801
Speaker 1: and guys who want you to be eaten eaten. Oh yeah, yeah,

1050
01:00:14,921 --> 01:00:18,081
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and you didn't You didn't. No, No, I

1051
01:00:18,081 --> 01:00:20,401
Speaker 1: wouldn't need that if I did it. No, no, no,

1052
01:00:20,641 --> 01:00:22,841
Speaker 1: I didn't need it. But I get this often. So

1053
01:00:22,961 --> 01:00:26,761
Speaker 1: sometimes it's just a fetish. People just want to, you know,

1054
01:00:27,041 --> 01:00:30,441
Speaker 1: get into some kind of mind game or or thing.

1055
01:00:30,561 --> 01:00:34,001
Speaker 1: But I got that a few times. Yeah. So okay,

1056
01:00:34,321 --> 01:00:37,401
Speaker 1: So as you said before, when you're like this.

1057
01:00:38,481 --> 01:00:41,721
Speaker 3: It stuck with you for life. But how how have

1058
01:00:41,881 --> 01:00:47,201
Speaker 3: you managed to kill your demons and now be a

1059
01:00:47,321 --> 01:00:48,121
Speaker 3: normal person.

1060
01:00:49,161 --> 01:00:50,241
Speaker 1: I'm not a normal person.

1061
01:00:50,321 --> 01:00:52,321
Speaker 3: Well you must be, but you are now because but

1062
01:00:52,601 --> 01:00:54,601
Speaker 3: but the thing is meats and normal now is that

1063
01:00:54,681 --> 01:00:55,801
Speaker 3: you're not eating meat.

1064
01:00:56,121 --> 01:00:57,921
Speaker 1: You don't want to kill anybody. Yeah, you know what

1065
01:00:57,961 --> 01:01:00,721
Speaker 1: I mean. So so these major two things have now

1066
01:01:00,801 --> 01:01:05,721
Speaker 1: disappeared from your head. You know. It's just understanding how

1067
01:01:06,001 --> 01:01:09,641
Speaker 1: all this is working around you. And I didn't get

1068
01:01:09,721 --> 01:01:14,561
Speaker 1: this sense of how everything was working before I was

1069
01:01:14,641 --> 01:01:18,241
Speaker 1: in prison because I thought that I was on the

1070
01:01:18,321 --> 01:01:21,441
Speaker 1: top of the chain. Right, You're not on the top

1071
01:01:21,481 --> 01:01:24,401
Speaker 1: of the chain. So there's this sense of being above

1072
01:01:24,521 --> 01:01:30,481
Speaker 1: everything just not true. You know. Reality strikes back, and

1073
01:01:30,641 --> 01:01:32,921
Speaker 1: reality is that you get a mob of billions of

1074
01:01:33,001 --> 01:01:35,641
Speaker 1: people who want to kill you. That's the feeling you

1075
01:01:35,761 --> 01:01:38,681
Speaker 1: get when you're in that way of thinking. So you

1076
01:01:38,801 --> 01:01:42,041
Speaker 1: have to adapt, and that's a common trait to people

1077
01:01:42,721 --> 01:01:47,481
Speaker 1: who suffer from a antisocial personality disorder. At one time

1078
01:01:47,521 --> 01:01:50,921
Speaker 1: after life, they adapt, So either the crash or adapt,

1079
01:01:51,121 --> 01:01:56,161
Speaker 1: you know. So for me, the adaptation was slow, but

1080
01:01:56,681 --> 01:02:00,081
Speaker 1: it was real. And now I'm in a place in

1081
01:02:00,201 --> 01:02:02,881
Speaker 1: my life where I have too much to lose of

1082
01:02:03,041 --> 01:02:05,521
Speaker 1: personal comfort, because this is what it's about, you know.

1083
01:02:06,361 --> 01:02:11,041
Speaker 1: If I do stupid things, if you know exactly, and

1084
01:02:11,161 --> 01:02:14,161
Speaker 1: it's never about morals or never about those things, just

1085
01:02:14,881 --> 01:02:18,201
Speaker 1: understanding the reality you know, you will always lose. It's

1086
01:02:18,241 --> 01:02:21,001
Speaker 1: a constant fight against and I have all the ways

1087
01:02:21,081 --> 01:02:23,681
Speaker 1: of you know, sharing my world to people. So this

1088
01:02:23,801 --> 01:02:26,561
Speaker 1: is why I do books, and this is why I'm

1089
01:02:26,721 --> 01:02:31,881
Speaker 1: a creator for an export. Also there's a new formation

1090
01:02:32,081 --> 01:02:34,841
Speaker 1: that I had recently with thanks to this expo's that

1091
01:02:34,961 --> 01:02:38,481
Speaker 1: I meet people, people younger than me, who also have

1092
01:02:38,601 --> 01:02:42,121
Speaker 1: those fantasies, the same fantasies, the same things, except that

1093
01:02:42,161 --> 01:02:45,041
Speaker 1: they haven't realize them. So they asked me for advice

1094
01:02:45,161 --> 01:02:47,481
Speaker 1: how to deal with those dark things inside them. So

1095
01:02:47,841 --> 01:02:50,201
Speaker 1: I try to give them advice. I think I've said

1096
01:02:50,241 --> 01:02:53,161
Speaker 1: a few lives like that, because I've actually had really

1097
01:02:53,201 --> 01:02:58,641
Speaker 1: interesting conversations with people who die innose the same thing

1098
01:02:58,721 --> 01:03:01,681
Speaker 1: as me and who had those very dark foots, and

1099
01:03:02,201 --> 01:03:06,001
Speaker 1: I think that maybe maybe I save them from doing

1100
01:03:06,041 --> 01:03:10,121
Speaker 1: a school shooting or killing their coworkers or things like that.

1101
01:03:10,321 --> 01:03:14,201
Speaker 1: So even if it's this sounds weird, but that's my

1102
01:03:14,361 --> 01:03:18,481
Speaker 1: contribution to this world right now. And I'm not doing

1103
01:03:18,561 --> 01:03:20,801
Speaker 1: this for society because I really don't give a fuck

1104
01:03:20,841 --> 01:03:23,521
Speaker 1: about society and people, because I'm really I'm still amazing

1105
01:03:24,001 --> 01:03:26,521
Speaker 1: pig person deep at out. I mean, I'm not doing

1106
01:03:26,601 --> 01:03:29,801
Speaker 1: this for humanity or I'm doing this for them actually,

1107
01:03:30,081 --> 01:03:32,241
Speaker 1: because I know that they will lose. This is all

1108
01:03:32,521 --> 01:03:34,441
Speaker 1: the word I use all the time. You will lose.

1109
01:03:35,281 --> 01:03:39,881
Speaker 1: Try to sort out your demons and master them, do

1110
01:03:40,001 --> 01:03:43,841
Speaker 1: something positive with them, and you will find a place

1111
01:03:43,881 --> 01:03:46,681
Speaker 1: in this world, even if it's on the outskirts. But

1112
01:03:46,961 --> 01:03:50,681
Speaker 1: who cares if you're in the otskirts. I mean as

1113
01:03:50,841 --> 01:03:57,401
Speaker 1: long as most people, and that's their main disadvantage. They're

1114
01:03:57,481 --> 01:04:00,681
Speaker 1: afraid to be judged for who they are, you know,

1115
01:04:01,401 --> 01:04:03,361
Speaker 1: and they live in fear constantly. If they live in

1116
01:04:03,441 --> 01:04:06,921
Speaker 1: fear because all those fantasy, all those darphins having of them,

1117
01:04:07,441 --> 01:04:09,841
Speaker 1: if they talk about them to others, they know they

1118
01:04:09,841 --> 01:04:16,441
Speaker 1: will be judge and they will be social lepods. But

1119
01:04:16,881 --> 01:04:19,441
Speaker 1: if you tell them that there's a way to accept

1120
01:04:19,481 --> 01:04:23,441
Speaker 1: it and share this in a world with somebody else

1121
01:04:23,681 --> 01:04:28,961
Speaker 1: and or through something creative, then you don't feel this

1122
01:04:29,121 --> 01:04:33,041
Speaker 1: constant frustration inside you, and it's a release and you

1123
01:04:33,081 --> 01:04:35,601
Speaker 1: will feel better and you don't have to actually kill

1124
01:04:35,641 --> 01:04:39,561
Speaker 1: people or do bad things to to feelm better. You know,

1125
01:04:39,841 --> 01:04:42,361
Speaker 1: you can, you know, find this outlet. This is what

1126
01:04:42,481 --> 01:04:44,881
Speaker 1: I do right now. Did your parents reach out to

1127
01:04:44,961 --> 01:04:46,081
Speaker 1: you through all this?

1128
01:04:47,121 --> 01:04:48,201
Speaker 3: I know that.

1129
01:04:48,601 --> 01:04:50,521
Speaker 1: Did they know about that? Did they know you went

1130
01:04:50,561 --> 01:04:54,001
Speaker 1: to prison? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah there was still alive

1131
01:04:54,041 --> 01:04:57,041
Speaker 1: back that they did. They didn't reach out. Well, they're

1132
01:04:57,081 --> 01:05:00,561
Speaker 1: visiting me and they tried to help me, but there

1133
01:05:00,681 --> 01:05:05,361
Speaker 1: was still this gap, this huge gap. Also something that's

1134
01:05:05,441 --> 01:05:08,481
Speaker 1: really hard for parents when they have a kid like that,

1135
01:05:08,641 --> 01:05:12,601
Speaker 1: it's sociort judgment. So sometimes it's not even what the

1136
01:05:12,681 --> 01:05:15,801
Speaker 1: kid has gone, but how they are judged by other people,

1137
01:05:16,161 --> 01:05:20,801
Speaker 1: and that's harder for them. So there was a lot

1138
01:05:20,881 --> 01:05:24,881
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, when you were finally released with the

1139
01:05:24,961 --> 01:05:27,641
Speaker 1: police on your radar a lot.

1140
01:05:28,161 --> 01:05:30,401
Speaker 3: If there was if there was any any other murders

1141
01:05:30,521 --> 01:05:32,841
Speaker 3: around where you were, would I think it has to

1142
01:05:32,881 --> 01:05:34,401
Speaker 3: be him.

1143
01:05:35,681 --> 01:05:37,401
Speaker 1: I know that I've been on their radars for at

1144
01:05:37,481 --> 01:05:40,281
Speaker 1: least two months where they were following me every day,

1145
01:05:40,761 --> 01:05:43,521
Speaker 1: So there was a police retort report that was written

1146
01:05:43,561 --> 01:05:46,641
Speaker 1: about that. Then I went to another country there they

1147
01:05:46,721 --> 01:05:49,801
Speaker 1: lost track and I lived in several other countries for

1148
01:05:49,881 --> 01:05:53,881
Speaker 1: a few years and I went back to France. Now

1149
01:05:54,121 --> 01:05:56,761
Speaker 1: I know that there are this special police there for

1150
01:05:57,881 --> 01:06:01,521
Speaker 1: case that are connected cults. According to them, of course

1151
01:06:01,521 --> 01:06:04,561
Speaker 1: I'm not connected to any cult, but according to them,

1152
01:06:04,801 --> 01:06:08,521
Speaker 1: i'm might have influenced people into a cult or satanic

1153
01:06:08,561 --> 01:06:11,121
Speaker 1: cult or whatever. So they had this special branch of

1154
01:06:11,161 --> 01:06:16,561
Speaker 1: the police who were studying my activities online and stuff

1155
01:06:16,641 --> 01:06:21,361
Speaker 1: like that. So it was a thing when I was

1156
01:06:24,281 --> 01:06:27,961
Speaker 1: But yes, during COVID, yeah before COVID, Right before COVID.

1157
01:06:28,481 --> 01:06:31,441
Speaker 1: One of the hospitals where I worked in they found

1158
01:06:31,441 --> 01:06:34,521
Speaker 1: out about my past because somebody had watched the documentary

1159
01:06:34,801 --> 01:06:41,481
Speaker 1: on me and they told the hospital priests. The hospital

1160
01:06:41,561 --> 01:06:45,641
Speaker 1: priest went to the stuff and told the stuff. It

1161
01:06:45,801 --> 01:06:49,561
Speaker 1: was a big mess and they fired a complaint and

1162
01:06:50,641 --> 01:06:54,521
Speaker 1: for using fake ID, etc. So I was sentenced to

1163
01:06:55,041 --> 01:06:59,801
Speaker 1: five years probation. Yeah, five years probation. Because of that,

1164
01:07:00,241 --> 01:07:03,441
Speaker 1: I decided, yeah, fuck it, I'm not working for other

1165
01:07:03,561 --> 01:07:06,281
Speaker 1: people anymore in my life. So created my own company,

1166
01:07:06,721 --> 01:07:11,481
Speaker 1: a publishing company, and I got involved in this worldwide export.

1167
01:07:12,081 --> 01:07:21,841
Speaker 1: Any regrets, Yeah, well it's hard to say. I don't know. Regrets, Yeah, yes,

1168
01:07:21,961 --> 01:07:25,561
Speaker 1: and no, I mean, did it have to go that far.

1169
01:07:26,041 --> 01:07:30,361
Speaker 1: I don't think it did, you know, But if my

1170
01:07:30,561 --> 01:07:36,201
Speaker 1: story is helping other people understand themselves better and try

1171
01:07:36,241 --> 01:07:40,881
Speaker 1: to find solutions for what they feel, then maybe, in

1172
01:07:41,041 --> 01:07:44,801
Speaker 1: that sense it had some kind of purpose. Of course,

1173
01:07:44,921 --> 01:07:48,681
Speaker 1: it doesn't wipe out the fact that I did it,

1174
01:07:48,921 --> 01:07:55,361
Speaker 1: and there was that I caused grief and damage to

1175
01:07:55,801 --> 01:08:01,281
Speaker 1: the victims family and to society as well, if you will,

1176
01:08:01,721 --> 01:08:07,721
Speaker 1: But you know, it would be lying. It would be

1177
01:08:08,241 --> 01:08:11,601
Speaker 1: hypocritical for me to say yes, I regret, blah blah blah,

1178
01:08:12,601 --> 01:08:16,961
Speaker 1: because that's not me. I'm wired differently. I tried to

1179
01:08:17,081 --> 01:08:20,881
Speaker 1: explain why I'm wired differently. Most people, ninety percent of

1180
01:08:20,961 --> 01:08:25,561
Speaker 1: the people that just you know, they just don't accept it.

1181
01:08:25,801 --> 01:08:28,201
Speaker 1: But at least I'm reaching to the ten percent that

1182
01:08:28,841 --> 01:08:32,161
Speaker 1: does more or less get it, and we try to

1183
01:08:32,201 --> 01:08:36,321
Speaker 1: find sense out of it. So at least it's not purposeless.

1184
01:08:36,441 --> 01:08:39,321
Speaker 1: I guess, did his family reach out to you and

1185
01:08:39,401 --> 01:08:42,721
Speaker 1: why you did it? No? Well, the thing about this

1186
01:08:42,841 --> 01:08:48,761
Speaker 1: family is that they they didn't know that he was

1187
01:08:49,681 --> 01:08:54,281
Speaker 1: doing this, you know, using this platform to contact young

1188
01:08:54,521 --> 01:08:59,521
Speaker 1: young men, and it was as much as a shock

1189
01:08:59,601 --> 01:09:02,041
Speaker 1: for them as the fact that he had been murdered

1190
01:09:02,081 --> 01:09:05,921
Speaker 1: that way. So it was really difficult, the fact for

1191
01:09:06,041 --> 01:09:11,641
Speaker 1: them to accept that the son, who was thirty four

1192
01:09:11,761 --> 01:09:15,680
Speaker 1: years old when it happened, was into that as much

1193
01:09:15,881 --> 01:09:20,441
Speaker 1: as the fact that I had been murdered. So they Yeah,

1194
01:09:20,481 --> 01:09:23,481
Speaker 1: they appeared on the TV show some time ago. But

1195
01:09:23,841 --> 01:09:28,041
Speaker 1: the only thing is that they express explicitly asked the

1196
01:09:28,761 --> 01:09:34,961
Speaker 1: journalists not to mention the way he was approached. So

1197
01:09:35,281 --> 01:09:37,281
Speaker 1: you when you watch the show, you don't really understand

1198
01:09:37,281 --> 01:09:38,881
Speaker 1: why I went to his place and why I shot it.

1199
01:09:39,281 --> 01:09:42,401
Speaker 1: So it makes me. You know, some people reacted to

1200
01:09:42,521 --> 01:09:44,561
Speaker 1: that saying that, oh, yeah, well he just picked up

1201
01:09:44,561 --> 01:09:47,521
Speaker 1: a random person on the street, don this door and

1202
01:09:47,561 --> 01:09:53,361
Speaker 1: shut him, which was not absolutely true. So but I

1203
01:09:53,601 --> 01:09:56,641
Speaker 1: can understand why they felt that way and why they

1204
01:09:57,121 --> 01:09:59,121
Speaker 1: This is how they deal with grief.

1205
01:09:59,881 --> 01:10:05,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's complex. Before before we before we go yourself

1206
01:10:05,761 --> 01:10:10,001
Speaker 5: in one word, Oh, that's a tough one.

1207
01:10:11,521 --> 01:10:19,361
Speaker 1: Monster. Oh so that's that's expecting that. That's the definition. Yeah,

1208
01:10:19,601 --> 01:10:23,441
Speaker 1: that's the definition. Monster is something that's not you. Right,

1209
01:10:24,441 --> 01:10:28,361
Speaker 1: So that's the definition, except that I claimed them the word.

1210
01:10:29,161 --> 01:10:31,961
Speaker 1: You know, for me, it's not a bad things different.

1211
01:10:32,121 --> 01:10:36,281
Speaker 1: I'm different, you know, I'm wired differently. And if you

1212
01:10:36,321 --> 01:10:38,201
Speaker 1: want to call me a monster. Then call me a monster.

1213
01:10:38,241 --> 01:10:42,561
Speaker 1: I don't care, I mean, because I don't feel part

1214
01:10:42,601 --> 01:10:47,121
Speaker 1: of this, this whole and human adventure. I'm wire deffinitely am.

1215
01:10:47,681 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 1: I'm you know, going via parallel pass, you know, from

1216
01:10:53,801 --> 01:10:58,041
Speaker 1: point A to B. And yeah that pass, you know,

1217
01:10:58,761 --> 01:11:01,321
Speaker 1: I did some damage. But now I'm trying to, you know,

1218
01:11:02,561 --> 01:11:06,041
Speaker 1: go to point B without hurting anybody in more so,

1219
01:11:06,361 --> 01:11:08,601
Speaker 1: people would say you're your monster, and I say, yeah,

1220
01:11:09,801 --> 01:11:12,561
Speaker 1: it's fine with me. I mean, Nico, I want to

1221
01:11:12,641 --> 01:11:14,801
Speaker 1: say thank you so much for coming on, bro. I'd

1222
01:11:14,881 --> 01:11:17,481
Speaker 1: like I I thank you for inviting me.

1223
01:11:17,761 --> 01:11:21,641
Speaker 3: Your story really intrigued me, as I said, and now

1224
01:11:21,761 --> 01:11:25,121
Speaker 3: it's just ma'am, it's it's mind boggling, and it's as

1225
01:11:25,201 --> 01:11:26,561
Speaker 3: I said, Wow.

1226
01:11:26,761 --> 01:11:28,201
Speaker 1: What a story, mate, what a story.

1227
01:11:28,321 --> 01:11:31,401
Speaker 3: But you know, I wish you well in the future,

1228
01:11:31,521 --> 01:11:33,721
Speaker 3: and I hope you know everything is okay with you

1229
01:11:33,881 --> 01:11:35,281
Speaker 3: and and your book's good.

1230
01:11:35,361 --> 01:11:37,441
Speaker 1: Up with your books too. Thank your man,