Speaker 1: Peter Quedlin live from New twenty four.
Speaker 2: Good evening, Welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up
Speaker 2: tonight on credline serious and concerning conduct.
Speaker 3: That's the verdict from IBACK.
Speaker 2: Today has revelations of a backroom deal by former Premier
Speaker 2: Daniel Andrews and the firefighters Union are finally made public.
Speaker 2: The questions tonight about why there isn't a definitive case
Speaker 2: for corrupt conduct, Well, stay tuned, I'll take you through
Speaker 2: exactly why that is. Class cabinet chaos in Canberra, Immigration
Speaker 2: Minister Tony Berg reportedly pulling the pin on major policy changes,
Speaker 2: including a crackdown on migration.
Speaker 3: Talk that there was a cabinet revolt here, so what
Speaker 3: do we know? Also, was it an.
Speaker 2: Act of terrorism against a Melbourne defense manufacturer last year, Well,
Speaker 2: that's certainly under investigation, with concerns it was orchestrated by
Speaker 2: far left extremists. Our part time Energy Minister Chris Bowen
Speaker 2: at the Press club today, smart goot as smarmy as
Speaker 2: ever and still banging on about batteries and telling us
Speaker 2: we're all on track to meet those net zero targets.
Speaker 3: Will you get to eighty two percent? I think we can.
Speaker 4: I think we can.
Speaker 3: You don't rather than will?
Speaker 5: Well, I think we can, and whether we will or
Speaker 5: not depends on whether we keep our foot on the accelerator.
Speaker 5: And I believe if we get very close to eighty
Speaker 5: two percent, you know, if we get to eighty two
Speaker 5: percent in twenty thirty one and not twenty thirty that's
Speaker 5: still a very good thing.
Speaker 2: First, they were almost the first words out of Ben
Speaker 2: Carroll's mouth, weren't they after he became the latest unelected
Speaker 2: Premier of Victoria.
Speaker 6: I am not Dangiel Andrews. I am not just center Allen.
Speaker 6: In my government, integrity will not be optional.
Speaker 2: Well, really, so, why then have a press conference at
Speaker 2: nine point thirty this morning at the exact time as
Speaker 2: the anti corruption watchdog was out releasing its long overdue
Speaker 2: report into Operation Richmond, an inquiry that's taken eight years
Speaker 2: to investigate corruption claims involving the Andrews government and the
Speaker 2: powerful firefighters union. Well, why so that every question could
Speaker 2: be deflected just like this?
Speaker 6: That's why I have not read the report. I'll be
Speaker 6: reading the report tonight. It has been tabled in the Parliament.
Speaker 6: While I'm here, I'm going to read the report carefully.
Speaker 6: I'm going to study it and give the Victorians the
Speaker 6: action and the answers they deserve. What I can answer
Speaker 6: for is what we do from here, and that he's
Speaker 6: reading this report carefully.
Speaker 7: Did you time this press conference specifically to avoid taking
Speaker 7: questions on this matter?
Speaker 8: You knew it was being tabled at nine point thirty
Speaker 8: this morning.
Speaker 6: No, this was always in my diary.
Speaker 2: What you saw today from the new premium ban Carroll
Speaker 2: was just a continuation of the medium manipulation and evasion
Speaker 2: that's been a hallmark of Victorian labor. Now it might
Speaker 2: be you face, but Carol's no different than his predecessors,
Speaker 2: proving you can change the premier, but you can't change labor.
Speaker 2: He might have promised a Royal commission into the c
Speaker 2: IFVERU and claims that it's diverted some fifteen billion dollars
Speaker 2: of your money out of the big build and off
Speaker 2: to organize crime, amongst other things, but he still actually
Speaker 2: hasn't announced it, and when he does, you can better
Speaker 2: it'll be fronted by a friendly commissioner with limited terms
Speaker 2: of reference and no public hearings this side of the
Speaker 2: November state election. He's promised too that he'd give eeback
Speaker 2: the powers it needs to fully investigate corruption, as he
Speaker 2: again promised today, it is intolerable.
Speaker 6: I will take action. I will accept the recommendations and
Speaker 6: get on with implementing them. We will pars legislation to
Speaker 6: give ieback the powers that it has been asking for,
Speaker 6: and that is what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: But again, like the Royal Commission, nothing's happened so far,
Speaker 2: and you can bet that any new powers IBACK gets
Speaker 2: won't be retrospective, and they won't allow IVAC to reopen
Speaker 2: any of these previous investigations which have highlighted massive problems
Speaker 2: but have totally failed to hold guilty parties to account.
Speaker 2: But none of that is surprising. Despite ibac's multimillion dollar
Speaker 2: budget and successive commissioners, will have all pleaded it for
Speaker 2: additional powers to tackle corruption, but have been rejected.
Speaker 1: For so long, there's been a persistent refusal to give
Speaker 1: not only IBACK the corruption watchdog, the powers that it needs,
Speaker 1: but the other integrity officers, the Order to General's Office,
Speaker 1: the Ombudsman. They're all under resourced. Ten years or more,
Speaker 1: I and my predecessor have been pointing to the same
Speaker 1: limited issues which so inhibit ibex's capacity to investigate.
Speaker 3: Now, Redleick was a labor man.
Speaker 2: But despite those extraordinary public pleas there there's been no
Speaker 2: extra powers for the anti corruption watchdog. Nothing has changed. Instead,
Speaker 2: rotten governments have all been able to use IBACK as
Speaker 2: a shield against corruption claims, as just Inta Allen did
Speaker 2: over the Big Build while keeping it as toothless as possible.
Speaker 2: Now it's no coincidence that the New South Waleses Anti
Speaker 2: corruption body eye CAAC has bounced to premiers, one over
Speaker 2: a bottle of wine, the other over a dodgy boyfriend,
Speaker 2: while in Victoria billions allegedly funneled into the hands of
Speaker 2: organized crime and the unions.
Speaker 3: Well that goes unpunished.
Speaker 2: Here is respected anti corruption expert, retired New South Wales
Speaker 2: Supreme Court Judge Anthony Weary, case on this very point.
Speaker 4: So the really serious thing here, I think Kieran, is
Speaker 4: that had these findings been made in New South Wales
Speaker 4: under the legislation we call EYKAC, then it's almost certain
Speaker 4: that a powerful case would exist for findings of corrupt conduct,
Speaker 4: and even even the KNACK at a federal level, the
Speaker 4: language of the NAK definition of corrupt conduct would have
Speaker 4: meant again, a serious and compelling case would have been
Speaker 4: made for filings of corrupt conduct. So I think, really, Kieran,
Speaker 4: the lesson to be learned from this is Victoria now
Speaker 4: stands at a pivotal moment, and people like Dan Andrews
Speaker 4: will come away smugly, I would imagine saying, oh, well,
Speaker 4: there be no filings made against me. And Peter Marshall,
Speaker 4: the union figure involved, he has already said that yes,
Speaker 4: but that's only because of the narrow definitions legislation.
Speaker 2: That man is a retired senior New South Wales Supreme
Speaker 2: Court judge. Now let's look more carefully out Operation Richmond.
Speaker 2: Today's Iback report has been eight years in the making,
Speaker 2: some forty witnesses have been probed, and there's a paper
Speaker 2: trail too that could wrap itself around the MCG with
Speaker 2: the conclusion delivered today that the Andrews government, ministers and
Speaker 2: public servants had engaged in serious and concerning misconduct in
Speaker 2: breach of established policies, procedures, codes of conduct and conventions
Speaker 2: in negotiating a twenty sixteen deal that merged the old
Speaker 2: largely volunteer Country Fire Authority with the unionized Metropolitan.
Speaker 3: Fibrou Brigade Fibrigade, with.
Speaker 2: The resultant fire rescue Victoria effectively under militant union control.
Speaker 2: It was this deal stitched up between the then Premier
Speaker 2: Daniel Andrews and the union's Peter Marshall behind the back
Speaker 2: of the relevant minister that led to the late Jane
Speaker 2: Garrett's resignation from cabinet. Now, unlike Ben Carroll, who's sat
Speaker 2: at the cabinet table without any obvious protest for nearly
Speaker 2: a decade, Garrett seems actually to have been about the
Speaker 2: only person of real integrity in what's largely been a
Speaker 2: gangster government of labor in Victoria. Here is the state's
Speaker 2: current IBACK Commissioner, Victoria Eliott on Melbourne Radio earlier today.
Speaker 9: We did not establish corrupt conduct, which under our legislation
Speaker 9: does require a criminal offense. We have identified a number
Speaker 9: of conduct risks that must be addressed as they're doing
Speaker 9: duy today.
Speaker 8: Okay, corrupt conduct risks. I guess you found that Dan
Speaker 8: Andrews did it my words, background deal with the fieries
Speaker 8: union to get a pay deal sorted. Is that fit
Speaker 8: what you found like a backroom deal?
Speaker 9: Yes, we did. We did find that he authorized the
Speaker 9: then Special Minister of State, mister Gavin Jennings, with the
Speaker 9: assistance of the Deputy Secretary Department of Premier and Cabinet
Speaker 9: to conduct an undisclosed backroom deal with the Secretary of
Speaker 9: the United Firefighters Union, mister Peter Marshall, and their actions
Speaker 9: in conducting this deal was contrary to government policy procedures,
Speaker 9: their respective codes of conduct conventions, and that, as you said,
Speaker 9: mister Marshall was able to use that as leverage.
Speaker 2: As reported by IVAC, Marshall describe the agreement to destroy
Speaker 2: the CFA as negotiated with FI former Minister Gavin Jennings
Speaker 2: in a backroom and endorsed by e Fie Andrews in cabinet.
Speaker 2: On why this backroom deal was so explosive, He's Victorian
Speaker 2: Senator James Patterson.
Speaker 3: But what's corrupt or corrupt conduct? James?
Speaker 10: I mean, what's an undisclosed backroom deal?
Speaker 3: Actually mean?
Speaker 11: Well?
Speaker 12: Or It's not normal for public sector EBA negotiations to
Speaker 12: be conducted in rooms booked in a hotel. It's not
Speaker 12: normal for champagne to be broken out and photos to
Speaker 12: be taken and sent to the premiere. It's not normal
Speaker 12: for a Labor senator at the time who was not
Speaker 12: a government minister to attend these negotiations and participate them
Speaker 12: in some way. Corruption is when you put sectional interest
Speaker 12: ahead of the public interest, and Victorian labor does this
Speaker 12: time and time again. They put the CFMI use interest
Speaker 12: ahead of Victorian taxpayers. They put the UFUSE interest ahead
Speaker 12: of the country fire authority and firefighters, and they do
Speaker 12: it time and time again. And it goes to the
Speaker 12: heart of their business model in Victoria, which is they
Speaker 12: win power and hand public money over to their friends
Speaker 12: and allies who support them to retain that power in
Speaker 12: the union movement. That is corrupt and the only way
Speaker 12: to fix that corruption is to get rid of this government.
Speaker 8: In November.
Speaker 2: Today, IBAK that Marshall had exerted extraordinary influence and was
Speaker 2: afforded privileged access the firefighters a union deal, said the
Speaker 2: IBACK Commission. Victoria Elliott highlights how government leaders, including ministers
Speaker 2: and the premier, can undermine established checks and balances when
Speaker 2: they fail to act as stewards of good governance. These failures,
Speaker 2: she said, as serious and persist in Victoria's public sector. Yet,
Speaker 2: because of ibac's limited investigative powers and highly restrictive definition
Speaker 2: of corruption. Remember what Justice wheeli's just said it could
Speaker 2: not find corrupt conduct, including the blackmail that's been alleged,
Speaker 2: just serious and concerning conduct which increased the risk of
Speaker 2: corrupt conduct, but which IVACS in institutional investigative hobbles meant
Speaker 2: were as yet unidentifiable. Now, honestly this is a joke.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 2: Compare Victoria's inputent IBACK and New South Wales' i CACK.
Speaker 2: As this latest report shows, IBAC can only investigate serious
Speaker 2: corrupt conduct where it amounts to criminality. And yet over
Speaker 2: the murray, i CAAC can and routinely does, investigate breaches
Speaker 2: of public trust and misuse of official functions. All it
Speaker 2: needs in New South Wales is a credible allegation the
Speaker 2: government's not acting as it should, and then the public
Speaker 2: show trials begin. And while IQAQ probably has too much power,
Speaker 2: it's clear that Victoria's IBACK has way too little. Just
Speaker 2: as Julia Gillard declare that good government had lost its
Speaker 2: way when she rolled Kevin Rudden that good government starts today,
Speaker 2: she said it never did. And I can't see that
Speaker 2: anything's going to change now that Ben Carroll has said
Speaker 2: integrity isn't optional. If he was genuine about the job
Speaker 2: of starting to tackle the most corrupt state in the Commonwealth,
Speaker 2: he'd recall Parliament to pass legislation now to give IBACK
Speaker 2: the powers and resources it needs to do the job
Speaker 2: it was said up to do. If Carol was serious
Speaker 2: about demonstrating that he really is different and better than
Speaker 2: his tainted predecessors, well he'd immediately sacked Tony Bates, the
Speaker 2: now Secretary of the Education Department, who at the time
Speaker 2: of his IVAC report was the point man for this
Speaker 2: union deal, and he is named throughout the IVAC documents.
Speaker 2: Now this is particularly important given that Carol was the
Speaker 2: Education Minister and worked closely with his blog baits until
Speaker 2: he rolled Allen one week ago. If he really is
Speaker 2: not Andrews or Allen as he says he isn't he
Speaker 2: also boot the United Firefighters Union from the Labor Party,
Speaker 2: and he would refuse all donations. If he was fed income,
Speaker 2: his Royal Commission would have teeth and hold public hearings
Speaker 2: before November because sunlight, they say, is the best disinfectant.
Speaker 3: Does anyone really think this will happen? I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to say I don't think it'll happen even
Speaker 2: today is being a statement. Late this afternoon, Daniel Andrews
Speaker 2: remained as delusional as ever. Argue again, I quote for
Speaker 2: the record and for the avoidance of doubt. There are
Speaker 2: no findings in relation to corrupt conduct made about me,
Speaker 2: any member of the government or the public service.
Speaker 3: That is a fact, he says. And yes, that is right.
Speaker 2: But it's also a fact that IBAC says it does
Speaker 2: not have the powers it needs to deal with corruption.
Speaker 2: And commissioners have asked Andrews. They asked him repeatedly the
Speaker 2: whole time he was in power to give them the
Speaker 2: extra powers they needed, but he did not. So they
Speaker 2: can hardly find corruption when they themselves say they don't
Speaker 2: have enough powers to even go and search for it.
Speaker 3: Can they now?
Speaker 2: During COVID I saw the underbelly of Victoria's crime and
Speaker 2: corruption crisis.
Speaker 3: It is deep, and it is wide, and it.
Speaker 2: Goes high up in the public service and all the
Speaker 2: way through political offices in the state of Victoria. Put simply,
Speaker 2: there are too many people with their nose in the
Speaker 2: taxpayer trough in Victoria. There are too many people with
Speaker 2: power and influence to lose, to want to see a
Speaker 2: change of government in this state to want to see
Speaker 2: to allow even Victoria to be cleaned up. It's not
Speaker 2: a mistake that during COVID bad people made milligans, and
Speaker 2: that pattern of illicit corrupt behavior has now been entrenched
Speaker 2: with a state dead of some two hundred billion dollars.
Speaker 2: Just think how many people have benefited by ripping off
Speaker 2: the Victorian taxpayer, With nine out of every ten new
Speaker 2: jobs in Victoria a public sector job, Just think how
Speaker 2: deep things go. I always argue for a Royal commission
Speaker 2: into the pandemic so that all of this would be
Speaker 2: uncovered and dealt with. I hope too at the time
Speaker 2: that I might be called as a wisness to give
Speaker 2: evidence in the hope that Victoria could be cleaned up.
Speaker 2: Now I can understand why Daniel Andrews rejected that call,
Speaker 2: but even still now I'm sorely disappointed that Scott Morrison
Speaker 2: rejected it.
Speaker 3: Also.
Speaker 2: All that's left now is my hope that voters in
Speaker 2: Victoria have more backbone than those in power, and that
Speaker 2: they use the ballot box in November to hold all
Speaker 2: of these criminals to account. We will come back to Victoria.
Speaker 2: Of course, We've got that extraordinary SAMI run out from
Speaker 2: Chris Bowen at the Press Club today. We'll get into
Speaker 2: that as well, but let's get the headlines now with
Speaker 2: our political reporter Trudy Macintosh.
Speaker 13: The Home Affairs Minister abruptly canceled his press club speech tomorrow.
Speaker 13: I mean push back in cabinet on the details of
Speaker 13: the plan to slash migration.
Speaker 3: Has it in disagreements.
Speaker 14: About the policy.
Speaker 7: No, We've been working through the policy.
Speaker 13: With Anthony Albanezi on leave. Richard Miles chaired Monday's contentious
Speaker 13: cabinet meeting. The Home Affairs Minister put forward a plan
Speaker 13: to reduce numbers, but faced pushback for ministers about potential
Speaker 13: backlash and the detail. It reportedly included tougher family visa rules,
Speaker 13: a cap on the number of backpackers, and changes for
Speaker 13: asylum seecrets.
Speaker 14: How far super.
Speaker 5: Migration Masip tiny Burke will provide further updates.
Speaker 13: Migration surged in the wake of COVID above five hundred thousand.
Speaker 13: That's been going down, but the net overseas migration figure
Speaker 13: has repeatedly overshot Treasury forecasts. Tony Burk's plan is designed
Speaker 13: to stop that happening again.
Speaker 10: He wants to look like he's cutting migration, but he's not.
Speaker 13: His line.
Speaker 10: What he's doing is moving things around to make the
Speaker 10: numbers look smaller.
Speaker 13: And it's full steam ahead for the renewables roll out
Speaker 13: under Labor Minister Chris Bowen announcing a new rebate scheme
Speaker 13: to get businesses to install rooftop solar, doubling down a
Speaker 13: mid warnings Australia is not on track to Labour's eighty
Speaker 13: two percent renewables by twenty thirty target.
Speaker 3: I think we can.
Speaker 5: I think we can, you know rather than will well,
Speaker 5: I think we can, and whether we will or not
Speaker 5: it depends on whether we keep our foot on the accelerator.
Speaker 13: Minister Bowen also vowed to override objections from Queensland in
Speaker 13: the Northern Territory that mandate renewables for ALI data centers.
Speaker 12: Are you saying you will write Commad's legislation to effectively
Speaker 12: force Queensland to run their paragrid in a certain way.
Speaker 5: I'm saying we'll write commwalth legislation for the Commonwealth of Australia,
Speaker 5: which covers every state and territory.
Speaker 13: Trudy McIntosh News twenty four, Canberra.
Speaker 2: Otherwise, it was Bowen and his fami best. As I said,
Speaker 2: let's get into it all now with my panel on
Speaker 2: his twenty four host Damian Rodgers and contributed call Katz
Speaker 2: and Barnas. I'll start with Burke if I can. Tony Burke.
Speaker 2: He was supposed to be at the Press Club tomorrow.
Speaker 2: We've just had that report there from Juty in the headlines.
Speaker 2: It was supposed to be a speech with a really
Speaker 2: big announcement on immigration. A spokesman not Burke, though, has
Speaker 2: said we've got to put it off. The details not
Speaker 2: yet finalized. Behind the scenes, it would appear there's been
Speaker 2: a crackdown or a breakdown inside the cabinet, though it
Speaker 2: looks like there's been a reaction from the left faction
Speaker 2: over changes.
Speaker 3: They were looking at.
Speaker 2: Changes about to tougher family visa rules, a cap on
Speaker 2: the number of backpackers, restrictions on work and appeal rights
Speaker 2: for asylum seekers. So Caraly, this is really interesting. I
Speaker 2: know Labours now reacting to one nation here and the Poles,
Speaker 2: but it's clearly proving difficult internally.
Speaker 11: Well it is because as we know, they're not foreigny
Speaker 11: checks or balances with Australia's migration system. I mean Australia's
Speaker 11: migration system is meant to actually help build up Australia.
Speaker 11: I mean there's currently four hundred and thirteen thousand people
Speaker 11: on temporary bridging visas. The problem is the migration levels
Speaker 11: are just too high and it's affecting every corner of
Speaker 11: Australian life. It's basically been a massive exercise by the
Speaker 11: Albanesi and federal Labor governments in trying to import a
Speaker 11: massive vote block into Australia. How can you not want
Speaker 11: to protect our borders. How can you not want to
Speaker 11: protect the safety and security of all Australians. This is
Speaker 11: not race based, and it will be made out to
Speaker 11: be that it is race based. But when you wave
Speaker 11: through three thousand temporary people from Gaza with no checks
Speaker 11: or balances at all, and you have Tony Burke secretly
Speaker 11: at the airport meeting them, what message does that send out.
Speaker 11: It sends out that Australia and Labor they're not interested
Speaker 11: in the future of Australia.
Speaker 3: There are too many people.
Speaker 11: The other thing is I read that you know the
Speaker 11: Administrative Review Tribunal is under resourced. Well, I'm really sorry
Speaker 11: it may be under resource, but as i've said before
Speaker 11: they got rid of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal in a
Speaker 11: hit job by Albanesi and Drefus in a vanity project.
Speaker 11: They removed many, many good members were doing their job.
Speaker 11: And look at the blowout four hundred and thirteen thousand
Speaker 11: people on temporary bridging visas and three years ago it
Speaker 11: was less than one hundred and seventy seven thousand. They're
Speaker 11: not serious on it. And Labour's never been serious about
Speaker 11: looking at our migrations.
Speaker 3: There have to be.
Speaker 11: Rules, people have to be rules. We need to have
Speaker 11: checks and balances. It goes through to housing, healthcare, infrastructure,
Speaker 11: all those things that normal law abiding, tax paying Australians
Speaker 11: are now suffering from. And it is not racist to
Speaker 11: want to have a proper discussion on migration and actually
Speaker 11: stop this explosion in population.
Speaker 2: Well a couple of things from me. It just on
Speaker 2: that to you, Jamie. Of course the politics are clear.
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about the published polls, but Labor to
Speaker 2: move on this. That tells to me their internal polls
Speaker 2: and there are a lot more accurate, as you will know.
Speaker 2: Politically they must be heading in the wrong direction for Labor.
Speaker 2: So that's one point I think Burke's been dragged, kicking
Speaker 2: and screaming to this.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: I think the numbers there of the people in the
Speaker 2: temporary bridging visas doubling over the past three years. As
Speaker 2: Curely said, they are a huge concern. But what really
Speaker 2: worries me, and it's come out in Question Time and
Speaker 2: estimates the number of these mass citizenship ceremonies that Labor
Speaker 2: are holding three four thousand people there with Tony Burke,
Speaker 2: Labor MP's front and center, and at the back of
Speaker 2: the room is the AEC with the forms to sign
Speaker 2: them up immediately as voters.
Speaker 15: Yeah, this is something that was raised quite a lot
Speaker 15: in the lead up to the last election and as
Speaker 15: well in the lead up to the last state election
Speaker 15: because it was in a Labor heartfelt area of where
Speaker 15: a lot of these ceremonies were And I think if
Speaker 15: they are going to be doing that, then Labor needs
Speaker 15: to be upfront about what demographic and what regions that
Speaker 15: these ceremonies are happening in the lead up to elections.
Speaker 15: But to Carraly's point, when they're regarding these bridging visas,
Speaker 15: I was reading Peter that back in the nineties when
Speaker 15: this was first established if they reached ten thousand bridging visas,
Speaker 15: they would have all balked and gone, oh my gosh,
Speaker 15: that is so many. Fast forward to twenty twenty six
Speaker 15: and we're now seeing four hundred thousand. It is a
Speaker 15: system that is now not being used in the way
Speaker 15: that was originally designed to and I think this government
Speaker 15: has a lot to answer for. And what we're seeing,
Speaker 15: the fact that Tony Burk has canceled his speech tomorrow,
Speaker 15: is they have no idea how to handle this immigration
Speaker 15: crisis that's happening now in Australia. We are seeing huge
Speaker 15: issues with wait times in the hospitals. I mean in
Speaker 15: New South Wales. Yesterday Peter chris Mins was coming out
Speaker 15: saying don't go to the hospital, do not go to
Speaker 15: the emergency department because it's completely at capacity. They had
Speaker 15: ten thousand go to the ED in just one day.
Speaker 15: So these are some of the signs that we're seeing
Speaker 15: that our infrastructure, our services and our housing are all
Speaker 15: at capacity and this government needs to address this and
Speaker 15: needs to urgently address it.
Speaker 3: We'll speak of housing.
Speaker 2: Let's go to that, because that's again been a feature
Speaker 2: of the headlines today.
Speaker 3: Caroly, A whole lot of debate.
Speaker 2: Sure about helping first home buyers get on the ladder,
Speaker 2: but some of these changes in the budget have basically
Speaker 2: obliterated the value that all of us have in our homes.
Speaker 2: And I tell you there's a lot more people who
Speaker 2: are in our home or trying to pay off a home,
Speaker 2: than there is the queue trying to buy their first property.
Speaker 2: But minister after a minister again have been glib about
Speaker 2: the downturn.
Speaker 3: Have a listen.
Speaker 12: The modeling remains that over the medium term, when you
Speaker 12: take out all the other things affecting house prices, we
Speaker 12: expect house prices to continue to grow over the medium term.
Speaker 16: But in my lifetime has there been a better time
Speaker 16: to be a first home buyer in Australia.
Speaker 7: This is early days and this is a reform which
Speaker 7: will play out not only over months, but over the years.
Speaker 8: This happens all the time.
Speaker 12: I think when I bought my home many years ago,
Speaker 12: the market kept sliding.
Speaker 3: I was in negative equity.
Speaker 2: We also had a report today that one of Alberanzi's
Speaker 2: former political advisors of Loke called Alex Sanchez he's really
Speaker 2: ripped into the Prime Minister publicly. He's called him out
Speaker 2: for the Labour's out of control spending, their general lack
Speaker 2: of economic nous. I think that's patently clear. Those comments
Speaker 2: are telling you that no one in there has got
Speaker 2: much of a handle on how to run an an
Speaker 2: economy or or run a budget. But the widow's tax
Speaker 2: back down today, I see you. When the Parliament returns,
Speaker 2: the Opposition must go hard on all of this.
Speaker 11: Well they must, and they've also got to break it
Speaker 11: down into very easy language for people to understand, because
Speaker 11: it's very magnanimous of all those labor ministers who've had
Speaker 11: their investments over the years, and good on them. That's
Speaker 11: the Australian way. We all want to try it. But
Speaker 11: this is not going to help any first home buys
Speaker 11: and it's not going to help people either. And I
Speaker 11: just think it is a dreadful look that the experts
Speaker 11: that Labour should have consulted with in the very beginning.
Speaker 11: The experts are pointing out these discrepancies in these budget changes,
Speaker 11: whether it's the capital gains tax or negative gearing, and
Speaker 11: then suddenly there's a rush thing of either two days
Speaker 11: or magnanimously two weeks this time for these changes to
Speaker 11: actually be made for whether it's domestic domestic violent survivors.
Speaker 11: I think there was a celebrated case in Canberra where
Speaker 11: the lady couldn't actually refinance the property. But suddenly it's
Speaker 11: like they've presented all these things in the budget, but
Speaker 11: then suddenly they realize the reality of it and it's
Speaker 11: just not good. The one thing I would also say
Speaker 11: is how wonderful that they're fixing this widow's tax. But
Speaker 11: what I will say is what happens when the widow
Speaker 11: inherits her partner's superannuation and it tips her over three
Speaker 11: million dollars? What happens with Division two nine six of
Speaker 11: the Tax Act? No, I didn't think so they haven't
Speaker 11: thought of that one, have they.
Speaker 3: Let's go to this one Jabie expected next week.
Speaker 2: You know, we saw all the high school students there
Speaker 2: for a while, a skipping class to protest about climate
Speaker 2: change where they're going from green to orange. Now the
Speaker 2: skipping class to protest against Pauline Hanson and one nation.
Speaker 3: Peter.
Speaker 15: I saw this and I just thought, what are we
Speaker 15: teaching our children in the classroom. They should be learned
Speaker 15: how to how to think and not what to think.
Speaker 15: Let's sit down and have a debate rather than go
Speaker 15: out and protest. They should be in their classroom analyzing
Speaker 15: one nation's policies and learning about politics. I just think
Speaker 15: this generation I fear for what's to come, because what's
Speaker 15: taught in the classroom now is what's going to be
Speaker 15: future policy and our future leaders. So I think this
Speaker 15: is a disappointing way, and I would like to see
Speaker 15: and I hope that the schools do try and stop
Speaker 15: the children from going. Obviously, university students are a little
Speaker 15: bit older. But for school students, let's get into the
Speaker 15: classroom and learn to have a proper debate. We listen
Speaker 15: to ideas that you might not agree with, but learn
Speaker 15: skills for the next stage of life.
Speaker 3: We're not wrong. Look where we are on international panels.
Speaker 2: I mean where we are at an appalling low level
Speaker 2: around the world.
Speaker 3: Now, I'd much.
Speaker 2: Prefer the kids stay in school until they can vote
Speaker 2: and protest at the ballot boxer that don't like Paul
Speaker 2: and Hanson.
Speaker 3: I'll leave it there, ladies, Thank you.
Speaker 2: See you next week after the break, we'll go back
Speaker 2: to that damning report. Operation Richmond out Today Dan andrews arrogance.
Speaker 2: He put out a statement, I've taken you through a
Speaker 2: bit of that. We'll come back to that too. And
Speaker 2: why on earth was there not a corruption finding? I'll
Speaker 2: get to that as well. Welcome back, coming out more
Speaker 2: on that first of a kind investigation into an arsen
Speaker 2: attack on a defense and manufacturer. That official sphere was
Speaker 2: left wing terrorists, if you can believe it.
Speaker 3: Back to the extraordinary.
Speaker 2: Findings today handed down by Victoria's Broad Based Anti Corruption Commission.
Speaker 2: IBACK News twenty four Victorian political reporter. And she's played
Speaker 2: a blinder of the last two weeks, hasn't she, George
Speaker 2: Dicket said, Or she's been on the ground today and
Speaker 2: earlier filed this report.
Speaker 16: Secret meetings, secret deals and now a secret probe. Producers
Speaker 16: a scathing report. It was an investigation spanning eight years,
Speaker 16: examining the negotiations undertaken for a Firefighter's Enterprise agreement, which
Speaker 16: occurred back in twenty sixteen. The Andrews government at the
Speaker 16: time was under political pressure, industrial action was escalating, and
Speaker 16: the dispute with the UFU showed no signs of ending. Ultimately,
Speaker 16: a deal was struck, but behind closed doors. IBAC says
Speaker 16: though secret negotiations fundamentally changed the balance of power, saying
Speaker 16: the government placed itself in a position where mister Marshall
Speaker 16: was able to exert extraordinary influence over the negotiations. It
Speaker 16: also said that mister Marshall was granted privileged access to
Speaker 16: responsible ministers, but IBAQ ultimately did not find that any
Speaker 16: individuals engaged in corrupt conduct.
Speaker 17: What they did here is go on a witch hunt
Speaker 17: looking for a finding that just simply wasn't.
Speaker 16: There, and the Firefighters Union's response, in a word, fiery.
Speaker 16: Before Peter Marshall fronted the cameras, journalists were made to
Speaker 16: watch a video the UFU says, tells each side of
Speaker 16: the eighty year saga.
Speaker 17: There's not a lot of substance to that report that
Speaker 17: could be verified in a normal court process, and that's
Speaker 17: one of the fundamental flaws with IBAC.
Speaker 16: The report also reveals the extraordinary level of contact between
Speaker 16: senior public servant Tony Bates and union boss Peter Marshall.
Speaker 16: Mister Bates now holds a position as secretary for the
Speaker 16: Department of Education. Over four months, they exchanged three hundred
Speaker 16: and eighty one text messages. IBAC found several were inappropriate
Speaker 16: for a senior public officer, with Bates referring to the
Speaker 16: CFA as clowns and childish. It also found Tony Bates
Speaker 16: shared confidential government information with Peter Marshall, including advanced notice
Speaker 16: of a cabinet re shuffle and reassurance there would be
Speaker 16: no change in the Emergency Services PORTO. For almost eight years,
Speaker 16: what happened behind closed doors remained secret. Now Victorians finally
Speaker 16: know why, casting a cloud of conduct concerns over Daniel
Speaker 16: Andrews's legacy in what could be the dying days of
Speaker 16: Labour's time in power ahead of November's election. Georgie Diggerson,
Speaker 16: News twenty four, Melbourne.
Speaker 2: All right for more now in those findings, let's be
Speaker 2: in the Victorian opposition leader Jess Wilson.
Speaker 3: Jess, Well, I'll tell you.
Speaker 2: What this is the very definition of a government captured
Speaker 2: by union power, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Well, that's right.
Speaker 10: What we've seen, Peter, is that corruption is in Labour's DNA.
Speaker 10: This is a government, the Labor government for more than
Speaker 10: a decade now has put the interests of itself, has
Speaker 10: put the interests of the union movement and union bosses
Speaker 10: ahead of Victorians. And what Operation Richmond shows us today
Speaker 10: is that once again this government, the former Premier senior
Speaker 10: minister's public officials did not meet that standard of integrity
Speaker 10: that Victorians rightly expect of their parliamentarians and Peter. Victorians
Speaker 10: have had enough of this, whether it's the fifteen billion
Speaker 10: dollars of corruption and roughted money that has gone from
Speaker 10: government work sites into the pockets of criminals, the politicization
Speaker 10: of the public service that we've seen from previous IBACK reports,
Speaker 10: the red shirts. Time and time again, this Labor government
Speaker 10: has demonstrated to Victorians that they will put their own interests,
Speaker 10: they will put the union interests ahead of Victorians, and
Speaker 10: enough is enough.
Speaker 3: Victorians have staggered.
Speaker 2: You know, you've got a premier in u South Wales,
Speaker 2: Barrier Farrell, who resigned over a bottle of wine he
Speaker 2: didn't disclose. You've got Gladys spiogically and brought undone by
Speaker 2: a dodgy boyfriend. And you've got case after case of
Speaker 2: Victoria today where you know the IBEC Commissioner basically says
Speaker 2: bad things were done, but my hands are tied with
Speaker 2: the legislation that I've got. Have you got the guts
Speaker 2: to make the legislation as tough as it needs to be?
Speaker 10: Absolutely, and we're committed to definitional change for IBACK so
Speaker 10: that they can expand their powers, but also follow the
Speaker 10: money powers for IBACKS, so that they can go after
Speaker 10: every single taxpayer cent that has been roughted by this
Speaker 10: labor government. Public hearings. This report took years, eighty years
Speaker 10: to be handed down with no transparency. Public hearings for
Speaker 10: IBACK will allow Victoria exactly, will allow Victorians to actually
Speaker 10: track these investigations in real time. I will do whatever
Speaker 10: it takes to bring integrity back to Victoria. But what
Speaker 10: is really concerning in this report today, Peter, is that
Speaker 10: once again we are seeing of course former Premier Daniel Andrews.
Speaker 10: We've seen Jacinta Allen with the fifteen billion dollars. But
Speaker 10: who's been there around that cabinet table amongst that time
Speaker 10: but the new Premier Ben Carroll. He was appointed by
Speaker 10: Daniel Andrews as a minister. He was the second in command,
Speaker 10: the deputy to just into our and he has endorsed
Speaker 10: every one of their decisions. And in this report today,
Speaker 10: Tony Bates, his hand picked secretary for the Department of Education,
Speaker 10: is named nearly two hundred times.
Speaker 3: Boats has got to go, surely.
Speaker 10: He does, and Ben Carroll should have sacked him today.
Speaker 10: This report finds that Tony Bates, as a senior public
Speaker 10: servant out there doing the work on behalf of Victorians,
Speaker 10: did not meet the integrity test. He failed that, and
Speaker 10: yet we have not heard a word from Ben Carroll
Speaker 10: today in terms of how he intends to ensure that
Speaker 10: Tony Bates no longer has a role in the Victorian government.
Speaker 10: He should have been sacked and he has not been.
Speaker 2: What about the firefighters Union in Peter Marshall and their
Speaker 2: donations to the Labor Party.
Speaker 10: Well, once again Ben Carroll actually needs to step up.
Speaker 10: He said that integrity is no longer optional under a
Speaker 10: government he leads. Apparently it was optional when he was
Speaker 10: the Deputy Premier, but it's no longer optional. He should
Speaker 10: boot the UFU out of the Labor Party. It's currently
Speaker 10: an affiliated union. He needs to boot them out, and
Speaker 10: he needs to ensure that what one cent is accepted
Speaker 10: in donations from the UFE when we've seen the corrupt
Speaker 10: dealings throughout this report tonight.
Speaker 2: It's interesting, you know, this afternoon there's been a statement
Speaker 2: from Jane Garrett's family. She of course was one of
Speaker 2: the Andrews government ministers. She's long now passed away very sadly,
Speaker 2: but she walked when this was put to her, this
Speaker 2: deal cooked up by Andrews with the United Firefighters Unit.
Speaker 2: She walked from the Andrews government and paid a heavy
Speaker 2: price with serious allegations of bullying and things by Andrews
Speaker 2: to her. What would you say about Jane Garrett's integrity.
Speaker 10: Tonight, Well, I think she's one of the very few
Speaker 10: ministers of the Andrews government that clearly did have integrity.
Speaker 10: What she went through was absolutely appalling under former Premier
Speaker 10: Daniel Andrews. Watch what she was subjected too. But I
Speaker 10: think we can actually look at the contrast between someone
Speaker 10: like Jane Garrett who was prepared to take a stand,
Speaker 10: who was prepared to actually demonstrate that she will stand
Speaker 10: by her values of integrity and working for the Victorian people.
Speaker 3: She sat around the.
Speaker 10: Cabinet table and when she didn't think something was right
Speaker 10: or passing the pub test or there was a real
Speaker 10: sniff about it, she stood up and she said something
Speaker 10: and ultimately she walked. Compare that to Ben Carroll. Ben
Speaker 10: Carroll has sat around that cabinet table, sat next to
Speaker 10: to Cinta Alan as her Deputy and has not once
Speaker 10: spoken up about.
Speaker 3: The need for a royal commission.
Speaker 10: By his own admission, over the weekend, he said that
Speaker 10: he used to get a call from the Premiere on
Speaker 10: a Sunday night. She would give him her marching orders
Speaker 10: and he would blindly follow them in cabinet the next day.
Speaker 10: That is not a leader, That is a sheep and
Speaker 10: Victorians deserve so much better.
Speaker 2: I leave it there, Jess Wilson, thank you, thank you, Peter.
Speaker 2: Just before the break, I mentioned that the family of
Speaker 2: the late Jane Garrett had released a statement. She, of
Speaker 2: course was at the time the Emergency Services Minister who
Speaker 2: was sidelined by Andrews and ultimately had to resign from cabinet.
Speaker 2: Her family says in this statement that the evidence that
Speaker 2: she gave to the Expenditure Review Subcommittee of Cabinet where
Speaker 2: she refused to co sign the Cabinet's submission because she
Speaker 2: could not in all good conscience endorse an agreement which
Speaker 2: was opposed to what she swore in a ministerial oath
Speaker 2: to act in the interests of the Victorian people and
Speaker 2: good governance, was why she could not sign off that
Speaker 2: cabinet submission. The family say We miss her every day
Speaker 2: and we wish she was here to see these findings.
Speaker 2: I'm sure how many friends across politics do as well.
Speaker 2: After the break more in the baffling Net zero narrative
Speaker 2: from Chris Bowen, I'll tell you what throwing things at
Speaker 2: the television and he was that bad Claus the Victorian
Speaker 2: counter Terrorism Police. They suspect it was left wing terrorists
Speaker 2: who attacked a Melbourne defense business. Wednesday panel up next.
Speaker 2: It's Wednesday, that means words with Kell. They're coming up
Speaker 2: at first. A very smug address today from Chris Bowen
Speaker 2: at the Press Club. But of course I'd expect nothing
Speaker 2: less from our part time energy minister.
Speaker 5: Coal isn't baseload anymore. It's an unreliable asset. Every time
Speaker 5: Cole breaks down, your bills go up. We want to
Speaker 5: energy system that is stronger and doesn't cost consumers more.
Speaker 5: That's the test we've set and that's the one we'll hold.
Speaker 2: To take a deep breath, bring you my panel on
Speaker 2: our senior fellow at the Men'sies Institute, to Nick Cator
Speaker 2: and Head of Women's Advocacy, Head of Advocacy at Women's
Speaker 2: Forum Australia, Stephanie Bastigan, he does my blood pressure? No good, Nick,
Speaker 2: what did you make of bowing today? Basically doubling down
Speaker 2: is well behind in that twenty thirty target, So he's
Speaker 2: just going to throw more good money after bad and
Speaker 2: basically try and subsidize our way to green energy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 18: I think if smugness was an energy resourced Peter, we
Speaker 18: be fine. Looking at Chris Bowen, he just has this way,
Speaker 18: doesn't he have? Just addressing this and just saying black
Speaker 18: is white. He said today that that coal is no
Speaker 18: longer a baseload energy source.
Speaker 3: I tell you what.
Speaker 18: Right now, we're burning more than sixty percent coal across
Speaker 18: the East Coast grid, HIRER in Victoria, higher in New
Speaker 18: South Wales, quite high in Queensland, and there is no
Speaker 18: point in the last twenty four hours, or even if
Speaker 18: you look in the last one year, if you look
Speaker 18: at the grafts, when we've been burning much less than
Speaker 18: fifty five or sixty percent coal blust gas. So it
Speaker 18: is our baseload source. And of course the CSI ROE
Speaker 18: have said quite recently that it is coal that's keeping
Speaker 18: the electricity cheaper than it would otherwise be because these
Speaker 18: resources have been paid for and we just need to
Speaker 18: keep them running. It's nonsense what he's saying. Batteries are
Speaker 18: helping to that degree that they won't solve our problem,
Speaker 18: and he's living in cloud cuckoo land.
Speaker 2: I think, well, is it not the only crazy one
Speaker 2: in labor or the only one fitting to us at
Speaker 2: the moment, Steph, I found this extraordinary right across the border.
Speaker 2: A whole lot of front benches and been in the
Speaker 2: gun over the last week or so. Asked about that
Speaker 2: terrible skit involving Gina Ryan Hart. They all pretend that
Speaker 2: they haven't seen it, including Bowen.
Speaker 3: Have a listen.
Speaker 5: I haven't seen the clip that you're referring to. It's
Speaker 5: not a show that I watch. But I've read the reports,
Speaker 5: and if the reports I've read all right, which I
Speaker 5: actual are, then it is not appropriate. It should not
Speaker 5: have aired, and the ABC should take appropriate action.
Speaker 7: I want to be clear, I've not seen the video
Speaker 7: and I don't intend to watch it, but as it's
Speaker 7: been described to me, it's completely unacceptable.
Speaker 17: From what's been described to me, it is unacceptable.
Speaker 3: Steph.
Speaker 2: You know how it works. I call BS on this.
Speaker 2: They've all seen it. Of course, they've seen it. This
Speaker 2: staff have seen it, They've been briefed on it. Why
Speaker 2: can't they just fess up.
Speaker 14: Well, if you've read the reports, if you've heard What'sman said,
Speaker 14: how are you not calling for the ABC to tape
Speaker 14: it down? It's absolutely outrageous. They were all the first
Speaker 14: to jump on, particularly the Prime Minister the ditch to
Speaker 14: the witch slogan used against decinere Allan a few months ago.
Speaker 14: Yet we're calling for the ABC's published a segment calling
Speaker 14: for the brutal assault and murder of a prominent Australian
Speaker 14: woman and fmanthropist. No one's seen it, no one's to
Speaker 14: call them. We wrote to Anika Wells this week, the
Speaker 14: Minister for Corrections because we actually have concerns about the
Speaker 14: ABC on Budsman doing an investigation into this. They report
Speaker 14: to the board that approved this, and we think something
Speaker 14: more independent needs to be done. But how this was passed,
Speaker 14: how this was given the green light and deemed appropriate
Speaker 14: to air on our tax paying a funded broadcaster, is
Speaker 14: beyond me and there needs to be answers and there
Speaker 14: needs to be heads rolled over this because it's an
Speaker 14: absolute disgrace and if it happened to any other Australian woman,
Speaker 14: particularly on the left side of politics, there would be
Speaker 14: accountability and there would be consequences. But because it's someone
Speaker 14: who's deemed to be conservative well backs conservative causes, there's
Speaker 14: somehow this justification for it, and it's a disgrace.
Speaker 3: Spot on. Let's go down to Victoria.
Speaker 2: The Joint counter Terrorism Team there next revealed it's treading
Speaker 2: an attack on a Melbourne defense business. It occurred last
Speaker 2: year as an act of far left terrorism.
Speaker 18: It's this extraordinary, Peter, and I don't care whether it's
Speaker 18: far left or far right. You know, domestic terrorism around
Speaker 18: a domestic political organization is stremely alarming. We haven't seen
Speaker 18: that in recent times. But unfortunately, I think the left
Speaker 18: are increasingly unhinged on this issue of Palestine. We saw
Speaker 18: it yesterday with the deliberations in the Antisemitism Royal Commission,
Speaker 18: that you get this zealot on there just questioning the
Speaker 18: witnesses about some detail about Israel's evil nature. It is
Speaker 18: horrible to watch. I think that the Palestine has replaced
Speaker 18: climate change as their main cause right now and they
Speaker 18: are just bordering on antisemitism all the time on this
Speaker 18: and to think that they're actually now out there committing
Speaker 18: acts of violence. It's frightening really to see the left deteriorating,
Speaker 18: to go off into this area.
Speaker 2: Well, let's watch what's happening in that election overseas in
Speaker 2: the United States as we speak, arouse flared over the
Speaker 2: religion question and the census. We've spoken about this census
Speaker 2: not of course. Thanks Tuesday, secularist groups accused of trying
Speaker 2: to skew results by advising the Australians how to answer
Speaker 2: the country's most important national survey. This is a campaign
Speaker 2: led by the Rationalist Society and the National Secular Lobby
Speaker 2: reportedly actively trying to influence the results by circulating a
Speaker 2: questionnaire that instructs people how to fill out their response
Speaker 2: on religion. Stephanie are spoken how Christianity doesn't exist on
Speaker 2: the form, just Christian churches, not all of them, of course,
Speaker 2: and that if you want to declare that you are
Speaker 2: a Jew, you have to write it in down the bottom.
Speaker 3: What do you think of all of this?
Speaker 14: Oh, can you imagine the outrage if any Christian denomination
Speaker 14: put a survey out on Facebook saying, look, I've been
Speaker 14: to church in a while, but you still believe in God.
Speaker 14: Make sure you tip that consensus box. They would be
Speaker 14: just outrage everywhere. At the end of the day, Australia
Speaker 14: is built primarily. Its roots are in today Christian values
Speaker 14: and culture. It's in our legal system, it's in our history.
Speaker 14: And what we're seeing here is this real push towards
Speaker 14: secularism and ensuring that that takes precedent in the way
Speaker 14: that we run our country. The census should be free
Speaker 14: from this get out the vote to push one ideology
Speaker 14: over another. It's absolutely ridiculous. But at the end of
Speaker 14: the day, it's very clear what this group of trying
Speaker 14: to do. They're trying to push the results, and I
Speaker 14: think that particularly towards younger people who are doing the
Speaker 14: senses for the first time. I mean, some of those
Speaker 14: questions were ridiculous. Do you agree with your church leadership
Speaker 14: on everything? If not, perhaps you know, think about whether
Speaker 14: you want to put a tick in religion. I mean,
Speaker 14: the whole thing was geared towards getting an outcome that
Speaker 14: pushed us away from our history and our culture, and
Speaker 14: that's what it's about.
Speaker 3: I'll leave it there. I've run out of time.
Speaker 2: I was going to mention Jetstar. I can't believe they're
Speaker 2: going to charge us to use the overhead cabin storage.
Speaker 2: Next our charge us to sit down and use the
Speaker 2: toilet or to breathe. For goodness sake, we won't be
Speaker 2: flying Jetstar.
Speaker 3: I'll leave it there.
Speaker 2: Thank you to you both. Quick break after break, Kel
Speaker 2: with his great words for this week, welcome back, well here.
Speaker 2: He is one of my favorites, certainly one of yours.
Speaker 2: Wednesday made wordsmith and broadcaster Kel Richards Kel. Great to
Speaker 2: have you, particularly sitting in your beautiful digital library. Yet again,
Speaker 2: we've got some good phrases. Some of these I've often
Speaker 2: wondered about, so I'm pleased they're in the mix tonight. David,
Speaker 2: one of our viewers, wants to know about the origin
Speaker 2: of the phrase tongue in cheek.
Speaker 19: What's fascinating about this, Peter, is it did not begin
Speaker 19: as an expression. It began as a gesture. So back
Speaker 19: in the late seventeen hundreds, if you ordered to show
Speaker 19: contempt for someone, you would stick your tongue in your
Speaker 19: cheek literally and whatever, so that it's a bit like
Speaker 19: giving someone the middle finger. These days. It was a gesture.
Speaker 19: There were no words involved, and it went on meaning
Speaker 19: an expression of contempt like that for the next one
Speaker 19: hundred and fifty eight years, and then slowly over time,
Speaker 19: people didn't just do it, they talked about doing it.
Speaker 19: So the shift was from a gesture to a set
Speaker 19: of words, and the meaning change from contempt to just
Speaker 19: being not very serious, a bit sort of cheeky and unimportant.
Speaker 19: But it began, as I think, a very rude gesture
Speaker 19: of contempt.
Speaker 2: And with the tongue used, were you trying to show
Speaker 2: that person that you had your tongue in your cheek
Speaker 2: because what you were biting your tongue, you were holding
Speaker 2: yourself back from saying it. What they were saying you
Speaker 2: thought was rubbish. What's that about?
Speaker 19: I haven't actually discovered why. I mean, it's like saying
Speaker 19: you give someone the middle finger. Why is that rude
Speaker 19: these days? Well, I'm not sure, but it is. It's
Speaker 19: cultural and somehow putting your tongue in your cheek did
Speaker 19: the same thing in the late seventeen hundreds, and no,
Speaker 19: none of the sources I've looked at would explain it
Speaker 19: to me, So it ends there.
Speaker 3: I'm afraid we.
Speaker 2: Should do one day the fact that when I was
Speaker 2: growing up it used to be two fingers. I'm about
Speaker 2: to do it, I won't do it on it. It
Speaker 2: was two fingers that was the rude gesture, not the
Speaker 2: one finger.
Speaker 3: It became the one finger a bit. But believe that.
Speaker 2: Let's go to stuffed shirt. That's one from Rodney.
Speaker 19: Yes, this I mean for a long time, clothing has
Speaker 19: been used to indicate your status in society and when
Speaker 19: they're not. Probably not so much nowadays, but it has
Speaker 19: been for hundreds of years like that. When this expression
Speaker 19: was coined in America in nineteen thirteen, it was very
Speaker 19: much the case that you indicated how important you were
Speaker 19: by how you dressed. Now, when someone wore the sort
Speaker 19: of white starch business shirt that was common in those
Speaker 19: days nineteen thirteen, but wore it in the wrong way
Speaker 19: or on the wrong occasion. You know, I'm going to
Speaker 19: the baseball but I'm going to wear my good shirt.
Speaker 19: They were trying to look more important than they were,
Speaker 19: and those people were nicknamed a stuffed shirt.
Speaker 2: All right, This one's interesting. Dennis wants to know the
Speaker 2: origins of shindig. I love a SHINDI what's it mean?
Speaker 2: Where's it come from?
Speaker 19: I know what it means from eighteen fifty and it
Speaker 19: started out meaning a country dance. You just analyzed the word.
Speaker 19: You can see it. It was an occasion when the
Speaker 19: participants would move their shins that is, their legs, and
Speaker 19: they would they would dig them into the air and
Speaker 19: into the floorboards underneath them in the barn or the
Speaker 19: country hall or whatever. So it was a country dance.
Speaker 19: Was a shin dig, you know, shaking your leg same idea,
Speaker 19: and then overtime shindig just broadened out its meaning to me,
Speaker 19: any sort of celebration, anything which was good fun, that
Speaker 19: kind of thing. So a country dance to begin with,
Speaker 19: which makes sense.
Speaker 3: That's why I love it so much.
Speaker 2: I think amount of time I had some flags, they're
Speaker 2: going to roll them over to tomorrow. We've got some
Speaker 2: terrific flags still coming in. Please send them to my
Speaker 2: news twenty four address. Great to see your kel. We'll
Speaker 2: catch up with you again next Wednesday as always. Well
Speaker 2: that's it for me, see you tomorrow night. I have flags,
Speaker 2: I promise.
Speaker 3: Is Andrew