Speaker 1: I want the fairy tale. I want the prince charming.
Speaker 2: She how do I put this?
Speaker 3: Isn't a fan of my kissing.
Speaker 1: Style boyfriend and girlfriend for about twelve hours.
Speaker 2: He's in a trash bin. He's non recyclable.
Speaker 4: Catching them up.
Speaker 3: I love being love.
Speaker 2: I love love.
Speaker 1: On today's episode of Where's Your Head At, we are
Speaker 1: lucky to have Hailey Michelle Andrews and her partner Sam
Speaker 1: join us to talk all things relationships, passion, pleasure, and porn.
Speaker 1: Hailey is a feminine empowerment coach who shares her wisdom
Speaker 1: through her followers and is an advocate for self love
Speaker 1: and self discovery. We are excited to hear what advice
Speaker 1: Hailey and Sam have for us when it comes to
Speaker 1: watching porn in relationships.
Speaker 3: Stay tuned to hear how you can rev up your
Speaker 3: engines in your sex life.
Speaker 1: Where's Your Head At is a podcast that talks all
Speaker 1: things relationships, breakups, reality TV, trending shows, and everything in between.
Speaker 3: This is your new go to destination for laughs, gossip,
Speaker 3: intimate details, advice, and much more. All right, guys, thanks
Speaker 3: for coming. It's a pleasure to have you here.
Speaker 5: Hey guys, Hi, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: So excited.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're so excited to have you. I told you before.
Speaker 1: I actually stumbled across your Instagram Hailey, and oh my god,
Speaker 1: it was just so unique, like your content is so individual.
Speaker 1: It just really drew me in and I immediately followed you.
Speaker 1: But then I was just so interested in what both
Speaker 1: of you were posting. I saw that you are a
Speaker 1: divine feminine sacred sensuality embodiment coach, which is just number one.
Speaker 1: It's a very long, a very long title bit super interesting.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a bit about that?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Wow, okay, So the feminine embodiment is all about
Speaker 5: to me, is finding our fullness and our safety in
Speaker 5: our sexuality, in our sensuality. It's about coming back into
Speaker 5: that feminine space of magnetism, of creating our life through
Speaker 5: being through really just I guess, tapping into all these
Speaker 5: spaces that we've lost along the way, and to reclaiming
Speaker 5: our power, to reclaiming our sensuality and our sexuality. And yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean it's a long title because it is a
Speaker 5: forever expanding mission.
Speaker 4: There is so much to delve into.
Speaker 2: Is there a lot of women?
Speaker 5: I am a lot of.
Speaker 4: I need a big citer, So yeah, there's a lot
Speaker 4: to it.
Speaker 1: And Sam, you are a breath work tanenteric facilitator, empowerment coach.
Speaker 1: Can you just give us kind of like a brief
Speaker 1: overview of what that means?
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, absolutely so. I think as soon as people
Speaker 2: hear this word tant they instantly think about sex. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And where it's like tantra for me is it's about
Speaker 2: seeing the divine and everything almost seeing like God and
Speaker 2: everything and each other and ourselves and our environment. And
Speaker 2: so much of my journey has been a mixture of
Speaker 2: delving deep into the science of things and then deep
Speaker 2: into the spirituality. And so I've traveled the while I
Speaker 2: spent eight years traveling around the world, I spent forty
Speaker 2: days in the desert in Egypt doing a tantric shraumatic initiation.
Speaker 2: And it's all about energy management, you know. It's all
Speaker 2: about knowing our energy and harnessing our energy and understanding
Speaker 2: that energy, like sexual energy is energy, but it's just
Speaker 2: condensed intense energy, and how we can use that energy.
Speaker 2: Because for me, it's like I've always had so much,
Speaker 2: but it's like, how how can I then channel that
Speaker 2: energy and use it? Not not just for sex, but
Speaker 2: you know, for creative endeavors or how can I use
Speaker 2: that in my everyday life? So so much what I
Speaker 2: do and coming to the breath. Wok, it's about the
Speaker 2: living consciously and so the thing is, it's about using
Speaker 2: this sexual energy, this energy that we have, and consciously
Speaker 2: applying it to our life. That's what so much my
Speaker 2: journey has been about. I'm locking that within myself and
Speaker 2: now I'm locking that within others as well.
Speaker 1: You guys are just fascinating, Like, I just have so
Speaker 1: many questions right now, like because honestly, I think everyone
Speaker 1: needs these types of coaches. We all struggle so much
Speaker 1: with this and I think there's so much value in this,
Speaker 1: but it's not spoken about enough. Do you guys feel that?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 5: Definitely. I feel like, well, I guess our bubble of
Speaker 5: life it is spoken about a lot, yeah, in general terms.
Speaker 5: Not enough. Yeah. And you know, this is something that
Speaker 5: has really been suppressed within us all because it's our power.
Speaker 5: It's our power, our sexuality, our sensuality, it's our fucking power.
Speaker 2: And that's happening right now within our world with our
Speaker 2: society because so much the suppression comes from keeping us small.
Speaker 2: So so much of the suppression has come from religion.
Speaker 2: You know, so much of like sexual suppression, like you know,
Speaker 2: feeling guilty about masturbation or you know, sex outside of marriage,
Speaker 2: all of these things. And it's like if we look
Speaker 2: back at ancient culture, if we look back at the Egyptians,
Speaker 2: you know so much the ancient Egyptians practice tantrau as
Speaker 2: well because they realize this sexual energy is this is
Speaker 2: life force energy.
Speaker 5: It's where we were created, like we are created from sex,
Speaker 5: and it has been so shunned upon. It's been so
Speaker 5: shunned upon, but it is life force energy. It is
Speaker 5: so much more than what it is perceived to be.
Speaker 2: Exactly what society has. It's been able to be aware
Speaker 2: of that and how to use that, so not to
Speaker 2: be overrun by this energy and this power, not to
Speaker 2: be controlled by it, but being able to use that
Speaker 2: in a healthy way. And that's what so much of
Speaker 2: our work is about, is like not suppressing our sexuality.
Speaker 2: Has been so much suppression of sexuality in our society.
Speaker 2: And this is where I feel like so much of
Speaker 2: life for me. I work with a lot of brothers,
Speaker 2: and I have so much love in terms of bringing
Speaker 2: that awareness because there's so much and I hear there's
Speaker 2: like toxic masculinity on mainstream media, and well, I can
Speaker 2: understand where there's been abuse of masculine power. For me,
Speaker 2: it's something so close to my heart because I see
Speaker 2: all these brothers who just you know, they're confused, they
Speaker 2: don't know what to do, they don't have that identity,
Speaker 2: and there's so much power in this and I think
Speaker 2: that negativity only really occurs when there's resistance, and so
Speaker 2: when we suppress our power and we suppress our energy,
Speaker 2: then it can leak out in unhealthy ways. So it's
Speaker 2: about how to cultivate that and how to bring that
Speaker 2: back into our truth and then how to express that
Speaker 2: in a healthy way. Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's definitely so much shame around sex.
Speaker 1: I've definitely felt it, and it becomes is like in
Speaker 1: a struggle that you face and you're like, oh, but
Speaker 1: I want to be open. I'm embarrassed. And I think
Speaker 1: that's why you guys are so necessary, because you're shy,
Speaker 1: light upon it and you're so open that it makes
Speaker 1: people feel way more comfortable and way more comfortable than
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I've never seen a page on
Speaker 1: Instagram like both of your pages and it's empowering to see.
Speaker 3: I was fascinated what you're saying, Sam about how like
Speaker 3: you're very sexual and you have a lot of sexual
Speaker 3: energy and you've used that, like channeled it for different ways,
Speaker 3: because I find myself very like sexual and very high
Speaker 3: intent of that sort of stuff. Yeah, And I found
Speaker 3: it fascinating how you use it for other stuff. Can
Speaker 3: you explain that, like what you mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, And I think this is something that's
Speaker 2: so important. This has been such a such a journey
Speaker 2: in my life of like been open to that sexuality.
Speaker 2: And I think especially for us men, I mean women,
Speaker 2: you've had it suppressed for such a long time. There's
Speaker 2: been so much control around that, and I feel like
Speaker 2: there's there's been this shift, there's been this movement, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's so beautiful to watch women now being more
Speaker 2: open and speaking into this. I think it's so powerful.
Speaker 2: But I'm seeing a bit of a knee jerk reaction
Speaker 2: here and where now there's sort of almost a pression
Speaker 2: of the masculine energy and the masculine power. And so
Speaker 2: for me, when I when I see this, I think
Speaker 2: it's so important for us as men to not feel
Speaker 2: ashamed or guilty around having the sexual designs of how
Speaker 2: to really express them in that healthy way. And so
Speaker 2: this is where a lot of our work, and this way,
Speaker 2: a lot of my work with Tantra has come into
Speaker 2: because I think, again, you know, we'll speak into this letter.
Speaker 2: I'm sure around porn, but like around how we're conditioned
Speaker 2: to what sex is. And I think this is here
Speaker 2: when we look at this and when we look at
Speaker 2: like sensuality and sexuality. So a lot of men, in
Speaker 2: my experience, they think sex and they just think of
Speaker 2: this like you know, like jackhammering, and it's like it's
Speaker 2: it's very sexual, and it's and it's almost it's done.
Speaker 2: And the way I describe this is that we look
Speaker 2: at the energy centers and so we have this, you know,
Speaker 2: this beautiful heart center, and then we've got our sexual center.
Speaker 2: This is more the sacrel in the root. And when
Speaker 2: when we do this, when we look at this, a
Speaker 2: lot of men in the past and have been a
Speaker 2: little bit more closed off in the heart and more
Speaker 2: open sexually. And when women and it's not all women
Speaker 2: or all men, but they tend to be the opposite.
Speaker 2: We have a bit more open in the heart. They
Speaker 2: need that emotional connection, and they tend to be more
Speaker 2: closed sexually, and so a lot of the work in
Speaker 2: Tantra is about opening both of these channels. So for men,
Speaker 2: opening our hearts and having this flow of energy, like
Speaker 2: having this flow and this is what we do it.
Speaker 2: It's something called the microcosmic orbit within Tantra and breathe
Speaker 2: into this energy. So for men and using this sexual
Speaker 2: energy that we have, but doing it from a space
Speaker 2: of having an open heart, and then we can start
Speaker 2: to channel this energy and then use it for I mean,
Speaker 2: it's creation, it's creative energy. So it's like you know,
Speaker 2: maybe you're like, Okay, I'm feeling like I want to
Speaker 2: go and have sex or whatever it might be. And
Speaker 2: then you can use that energy and you can channel it.
Speaker 2: A lot of this is through the breath and through
Speaker 2: moving that energy, and then you can put that energy
Speaker 2: into creation, into creation like I'm in here with it
Speaker 2: some DJ dex and you know, and when we can
Speaker 2: put that into music instead of like you know, where
Speaker 2: a lot of guys my defaults like oh I feel
Speaker 2: this surge of energy, I need it, I need it.
Speaker 2: I need to go and have a way do I
Speaker 2: need to go watch porn or something like that, and
Speaker 2: they waste that and.
Speaker 5: Let that energy like out into the world rather than hey,
Speaker 5: let's like sublimate that energy and let's direct it into
Speaker 5: something else exactly.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we're going to be talking a lot about
Speaker 1: porn in relationships in this episode. Pre meeting each other,
Speaker 1: did you both watch porn individually?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I personally was very conditioned through porn.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 5: I guess my whole experience with sex was revolved around
Speaker 5: porn from a very young age. And this is I
Speaker 5: think where we're so passionate about it is because there
Speaker 5: is no education around sex. So my sexual education was porn,
Speaker 5: was pornography, and my first sexual experience was at age
Speaker 5: twelve because I was so conditioned around that porn and
Speaker 5: finding out through that.
Speaker 4: And so for me, yeah, there.
Speaker 5: Has been a journey through the whole stages.
Speaker 4: Like in regards to porn.
Speaker 5: Just before I met Sam, No, I wasn't currently watching porn.
Speaker 4: Your story is a little bit different than my love.
Speaker 2: There was more of a yeah, yeah for sure, and
Speaker 2: I think it's like yeah, yeah, for sure. And then
Speaker 2: coming back to like speak more word about before about
Speaker 2: this really sexual energy and craving that, you know. And
Speaker 2: so it's like for me, I've always had so much
Speaker 2: sexual energy, but then I'd be like I'd be looking
Speaker 2: for an outlet for that, and that's why I would
Speaker 2: turn to porn. And for me, I guess I've moved
Speaker 2: through so much in my life and I'm someone who
Speaker 2: I always see myself as like like I don't have
Speaker 2: an addictive person, you know, it's like I just for me,
Speaker 2: it's so I can just give anything up at the
Speaker 2: drop of a hat, no problem with virtually everything. There
Speaker 2: was there was a time where I uestion if other
Speaker 2: sex addicts, like there was a time where I actually
Speaker 2: sort out like coaching and like around that and I
Speaker 2: and they're like, no, no, that's good, that's healthy. You know,
Speaker 2: that's that's just got a lot of energy. You know,
Speaker 2: that's fine. But porn, I would say that porn has
Speaker 2: been the only thing I've really ever been addicted to
Speaker 2: in my life.
Speaker 3: Wow, when you say addicted, what are we talking to, Like,
Speaker 3: what do you mean by addiction?
Speaker 2: So for me, addiction on a on a very simple level.
Speaker 2: And I work a lot with addiction, with people with addictions.
Speaker 2: But it's like when I would choose porn over something
Speaker 2: else that's better for me, you know. So it's like
Speaker 2: I would I would choose porn even when I knew
Speaker 2: it wasn't the right thing to do. So it might
Speaker 2: be for example, I was my mates wanted to catch up,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I'm just going to stay at home
Speaker 2: and what's some porn and you know, like masturbate for
Speaker 2: a few hours or you know, I was like to
Speaker 2: this point of like needing that pleasure, Like I was
Speaker 2: chasing that pleasure and building so deep into it, like
Speaker 2: delving into the understanding what's happening chemically within the brain.
Speaker 2: And like so it's like why we like fruit and
Speaker 2: why fruit are all different colors because we like variety.
Speaker 2: And so porn plays on this, you know, porn plays
Speaker 2: on this. And that's like you know, like having one
Speaker 2: tab open and opening another one and like you know,
Speaker 2: like getting deeper into it and it's like, oh that's
Speaker 2: boring now, Like I neat way something else, and it's like,
Speaker 2: so this is this is what's.
Speaker 5: Happening, programming the brain to be stimulated, the body to
Speaker 5: be stimulated through something new.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And I think this is there's so many
Speaker 2: different levels of like what's something like with dopamine, what's
Speaker 2: happening with that release? And then and then there is
Speaker 2: that pleasure you know, and it's like really connected. So
Speaker 2: for me, I mean, it wasn't it wasn't a huge
Speaker 2: issue before we met, but there was definitely times in
Speaker 2: my life, and I was when I was younger especially,
Speaker 2: and There'll be times where I'm like, oh, well, maybe
Speaker 2: it's easy like I'm you know, I'm feeling I'm feeling horny,
Speaker 2: and I could go out on I could just watch
Speaker 2: some porn, you know, like and and so for me,
Speaker 2: a big part of it as well was because when
Speaker 2: I do connect with someone, there's a lot of emotional connection.
Speaker 2: My background is like kind of like coming from that
Speaker 2: space of a woman to heal of not wanting to
Speaker 2: hurt people. But it was especially when I was younger
Speaker 2: and I wasn't as conscious around the communication. I had
Speaker 2: that struggle sometimes where people like really fall in love
Speaker 2: and it was almost like Pawn was like, well, no
Speaker 2: one's going to fall in love with me, you know,
Speaker 2: like I can get Yeah, it's easier, you know. So
Speaker 2: it was like for some pople, I think it's more
Speaker 2: of like, oh I could just do this because I
Speaker 2: don't have to go out and get it. But that
Speaker 2: wasn't really the issue I had. My issue was kind
Speaker 2: of like, you know, try and like having it, but
Speaker 2: then like having that distance from it. Yeah. So yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's something that's so so common I find this.
Speaker 2: Like I'd say, like ninety nine percent of my clients
Speaker 2: have had some form of porn addiction.
Speaker 1: Well, look, let's jump into all things pawn and porn
Speaker 1: in relationships next.
Speaker 3: All right, Sam, So, I feel like you've been saying
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff that resonate with me, and like,
Speaker 3: I just want to be completely honest and open here
Speaker 3: with ya. So you said that you were addicted to
Speaker 3: pawn in the past. I feel like I might be
Speaker 3: struggling myself because I normally have to wait once when
Speaker 3: I wake up in the morning, once when I get
Speaker 3: home from work, and then once before I go to
Speaker 3: sleep or else. I've saying before, I feel real tense,
Speaker 3: and I feel real like yeah, like my energy and
Speaker 3: real anxious. I've even been called by some of my
Speaker 3: mates a sex addict, and it's been thrown around a lot.
Speaker 3: I've thought about it as well myself, so I can
Speaker 3: resonate with you on that, like, do you have any
Speaker 3: tips or anything that like what I can do?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, what's happening here is we're looking for a release. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's there's of course there's the pleasure and that side
Speaker 2: of things and the variety. But quite often when especially
Speaker 2: from it sounds like from what you're seeing, it it's
Speaker 2: like the it's like the ejaculation, it's the release. And
Speaker 2: this it's almost like escapism in a sense, because you're
Speaker 2: you're getting relief, you know, you're getting relief from everything else.
Speaker 2: Like you said, it's like this this old face, you know,
Speaker 2: there's close to God and so your your mind is
Speaker 2: switching up. And often, so often what's happening here it
Speaker 2: can be a number of things. And this is why
Speaker 2: again why the breath is so important and the breath work,
Speaker 2: but so so much of our work and what we
Speaker 2: do is around working with emotions and understanding emotions, and
Speaker 2: so quite often what's happening here and what we've experienced
Speaker 2: in our society today is there's been a lot of
Speaker 2: suppression of emotion, especially for the masculine and especially in
Speaker 2: Australian culture. Like I had the benefit of traveling around
Speaker 2: the world for eight years. I lived in Germany for
Speaker 2: quite some time. I was in Europe, so I got
Speaker 2: to experience different cultures and how things were I was.
Speaker 2: I was twenty three when I left Australia and a
Speaker 2: big part of the reason I left Australia was due
Speaker 2: to kind of not really feeling like feeling something was missing,
Speaker 2: feeling like I didn't really fit in. You know, a
Speaker 2: lot of my friendships were based around he was like,
Speaker 2: you know, going out talking about girls, you know, like
Speaker 2: do amount of the footy, you know, like it, and
Speaker 2: it was all like a lot of banter, and I
Speaker 2: I was lacking like this deeper connection. Yeah, And I
Speaker 2: sort of found that a bit more in Europe, where
Speaker 2: guys are a bit more open and it was a
Speaker 2: different way of framing things. So I feel like in Australia,
Speaker 2: especially in a lot of other cultures, but there's this
Speaker 2: idea of masculinity, this idea of like the much shown man,
Speaker 2: the man who doesn't cry, who doesn't feel, because that's
Speaker 2: what strength is, and men should be strong, you know.
Speaker 2: And it's like coming back to Yeah, there was a
Speaker 2: time for millennia and I've I've had these flashbacks of
Speaker 2: like Axe in hand and the battlefield, and like there
Speaker 2: wasn't really a time and space for emotion, like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't want to hack my brother now, like then
Speaker 2: you're did, So there was really a time for suppressing emotions. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what sort of led to almost it's stunted our
Speaker 2: evolution of this suppression of emotion. And so what's happening
Speaker 2: quite often then is that we're looking for an escape.
Speaker 2: So when these emotions come up, we actually don't want
Speaker 2: to face them. We don't want to go into that
Speaker 2: because it can be painful or it can be uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: And so what we're doing then quite often is we're
Speaker 2: looking for an escape. We're looking how can I avoid
Speaker 2: feeling this thing?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: And that's where that's where a lot of men are
Speaker 2: then turning to sex or to pawn. So they're suppressing
Speaker 2: their emotions and they're looking for something they can be
Speaker 2: distracted with.
Speaker 1: It's interesting you say that because Matt and I were
Speaker 1: on a TV show and Matt was actually quite heavily
Speaker 1: bullied by the Australian public foreshowing emotion and crying a lot,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't accepted. And I think even like in
Speaker 1: the past two years, people have become more open, more accepting.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting hearing you say that because that was
Speaker 1: my immediate reaction to that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was always taught to show my emotions, like with
Speaker 3: my heart and my slave and not be ashamed of it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I went on national television and cried and
Speaker 3: cop t heaves a slack for it.
Speaker 2: But what, I'm sorry, sorry that you experienced that.
Speaker 3: Well, how I found the best way to deal with
Speaker 3: it was I owned it. I was like, that's me,
Speaker 3: That's who I am. I have no shame in it.
Speaker 3: I cry all the time.
Speaker 5: That's who I Authenticity.
Speaker 2: Authenticity, This is like authenticity is sexy, someone being themselves
Speaker 2: and earning that rather than trying to fit into the mold,
Speaker 2: really honoring in that respect.
Speaker 3: Thanks, Yeah, that's just me.
Speaker 1: Okay, So when did you guys first start discussing porn
Speaker 1: in your relationship Because you mentioned before Hailey you weren't
Speaker 1: watching porn actively at the time when you guys first
Speaker 1: met Sam you were. How did that conversation come up
Speaker 1: and kind of if you could explain the evolution of
Speaker 1: stopping watching porn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I mean, like I said, I think
Speaker 2: even by the time we were by that stage of
Speaker 2: us meeting, like I'd done so much work on myself
Speaker 2: where it actually overcome that addiction. So it was something
Speaker 2: that I'd already moved through myself quite some time before.
Speaker 2: So there's kind of like in context, when I thought
Speaker 2: I was addict to the porn, it was quite some
Speaker 2: time before that, but there was there was still definitely
Speaker 2: some overhang of that, so to speak, like I still
Speaker 2: occasionally watching porn when we met. I mean, like I said,
Speaker 2: it was just because it was it was such a habit.
Speaker 2: It was a habit, and it was just, yeah, sometimes
Speaker 2: it was easier than going through any sort of emotional
Speaker 2: conflict that I might experience when I was like saying
Speaker 2: to women like I'm you know, I'm not really interested
Speaker 2: in a partnership or a relationship, but ultimately with porn.
Speaker 2: The first time we spoke about it, I mean, I
Speaker 2: didn't think it was I didn't think it was really
Speaker 2: straight away, Like.
Speaker 4: No, it definitely wasn't.
Speaker 5: It came up because we spent that night apart and
Speaker 5: you said that you watch porn, and that was when
Speaker 5: the conversation came about.
Speaker 4: And that was probably a few months in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a few months in before And.
Speaker 1: How did you feel about that, Hayley, when you did
Speaker 1: spend a night apart and you knew that Sam had
Speaker 1: watched porn.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like, for me, I feel like porn has been
Speaker 5: it's like this tunnel vision of what sex is. It's
Speaker 5: a very small, minute part of what sex is, and
Speaker 5: for me it really kind of puts down the feminine
Speaker 5: in a way. I opened this discussion with him that
Speaker 5: it felt to me like although we hadn't spoken about it,
Speaker 5: so it wasn't a boundary that had been crossed. But
Speaker 5: for me, I realized that it was a boundary of
Speaker 5: mine that I don't want you spending any energy on this,
Speaker 5: like on other people's sexual energy.
Speaker 4: I don't want you receiving that.
Speaker 5: I don't want you, yeah, being involved in that because
Speaker 5: and I realized in that moment that became my boundary
Speaker 5: because it didn't feel good.
Speaker 1: How did that feel for you, Sam, hearing that that
Speaker 1: was now becoming a boundary in your relationship?
Speaker 2: For sure? It was definitely it was a paradigm shift
Speaker 2: for me. Even though my views on porn, like, I
Speaker 2: never really thought it was healthy. I didn't think, as
Speaker 2: I say so bad earlier, but I never thought it
Speaker 2: was really good and so so much My experience was
Speaker 2: already that idea around porn not seen as as a
Speaker 2: as a great thing. But all of a sudden, like
Speaker 2: I had never ever in my life considered porn to
Speaker 2: be cheating, you know, like I'd never that that had
Speaker 2: not come into my field at all. I'm just watching porn, Like,
Speaker 2: what do you mean? You know, I'm not I'm not
Speaker 2: sleeping with someone else, like And I think so that
Speaker 2: for me was a paradigm shift of how I viewed porn.
Speaker 2: And even though I'd done so much work, and I
Speaker 2: remember working when I was doing my tantric for facilitation
Speaker 2: and working like with my my my guru, and he
Speaker 2: was he was always like, no, porn, porn is terrible,
Speaker 2: like do not go near porn, you know. And I
Speaker 2: think it's like for me when I look at porn
Speaker 2: and I see like the fact that porn is free,
Speaker 2: you know, the fact that porn is free. If you're
Speaker 2: not paying for it, then you're the product, you know,
Speaker 2: And this is think about it. You got a subscription
Speaker 2: for Netflix, you got a subscription for all of these things.
Speaker 2: But the fact that porn is so readily available online,
Speaker 2: you know that that for me is straight away a
Speaker 2: bit of a red flag. There is a subscription unless yeah,
Speaker 2: I wanted.
Speaker 3: To watch a video and it's like side off and
Speaker 3: I'm free.
Speaker 2: Exactly of course, now like only fans now you know,
Speaker 2: there's different there's different sides of that. But I think
Speaker 2: ultimately for me it was it was a paradigm shift
Speaker 2: in terms of even though I'd done that work of
Speaker 2: understanding sexual energy and like when I'm having sex with someone,
Speaker 2: sure there's an energy exchange, but there was another layer
Speaker 2: which unraveled to me and like going, oh, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: that's actually true. Like and even though I was watching
Speaker 2: more because I am so empathetic and I feel people
Speaker 2: so intensely, Like the porn I was watching was not
Speaker 2: just your run of the mill mainstream point. It was like,
Speaker 2: I can't watch pawn like I for me, at least,
Speaker 2: I can really tell when a woman's actually enjoying it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I can't watch porn if she's not enjoying it,
Speaker 2: Like I have to feel that she wants that whatever's happening. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So I think a lot of porn is not necessarily
Speaker 2: fallen under that category. So even though like the porn
Speaker 2: I was watching wasn't necessarily completely unconscious or mainstream porn.
Speaker 2: But even then to realize that, yeah, if I'm watching porn,
Speaker 2: even if it's conscious porn, it's still an energy exchange.
Speaker 2: It's still something that I'm experienced. And even if I'm
Speaker 2: not physically having sex with someone, there's still an exchange
Speaker 2: of energy.
Speaker 1: So just to clarify in both of your relationship, you
Speaker 1: would classify watching porn as cheating.
Speaker 2: This is a good one, and we've discussed this at length,
Speaker 2: and I guess ultimately again it comes back to those
Speaker 2: boundaries that we set and because we hadn't had conscious
Speaker 2: communication around this at all, Yeah, it certainly wasn't something
Speaker 2: that was perceived as cheating. And I think even when
Speaker 2: we speak about this, it's not necessarily cheating, but it's
Speaker 2: the conscious understanding of For example, if Hayley doesn't like
Speaker 2: me watching porn, then that's something that I need to
Speaker 2: honor and respect. And if I'm doing something that she
Speaker 2: doesn't like me doing, then you know, what's what's actually
Speaker 2: going on there, What's what's deeper behind that. I personally
Speaker 2: don't consider it to be cheating, but it's also a
Speaker 2: deeper level of understanding of what's actually involved in watching
Speaker 2: porn and that in that exchange of energy.
Speaker 1: Hayley, do you feel like Sam watching porn is cheating if.
Speaker 5: There is a boundary in place where we've discussed it
Speaker 5: and he then goes beyond that boundary. I wouldn't call
Speaker 5: it cheating, but it's definitely a boundary that's been crossed.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Is it because he's watching other naked women?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And I guess it's what we spoke about
Speaker 2: as well. It's like, if I'm watching porn, it's like
Speaker 2: what am.
Speaker 4: What is missing in the relationship? And that's deeper.
Speaker 5: That's where we go deeper, because there is something missing
Speaker 5: in this container if you need to find that fulfillment
Speaker 5: outside of our container, and this is where we need
Speaker 5: to be first.
Speaker 3: So say that a couple one of the partner doesn't
Speaker 3: like the other one watching porn, but their sexual energies
Speaker 3: don't link up at the same What do I say,
Speaker 3: vibrate libidos are the what do you suggest then for
Speaker 3: instead of watching porn, Because there's obviously like one of
Speaker 3: them needs to get off but the other one doesn't
Speaker 3: as much. What can you implement then into the relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, multifaceted.
Speaker 4: It is very multifaceted. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Look, I mean, first of all, it is about like
Speaker 5: really delving deeper into what those sexual urges are and
Speaker 5: going on your own journey. But two, one hundred percent,
Speaker 5: if two people's libidos don't match up and someone is
Speaker 5: wanting to come into that pleasure are more often than
Speaker 5: the other, well then yeah, there is nothing wrong with
Speaker 5: self pleasure. Yeah, there is, one hundred percent. I'm an
Speaker 5: advocate for self pleasure. Yeah, so yeah, there would be
Speaker 5: then using your imagination, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2: It's as well. It's like the first thing I would suggest,
Speaker 2: like like how I says, like looking at what's the root?
Speaker 2: Cause you know, like what's actually behind it? So why
Speaker 2: is there actually a discrepancy in the libido or is
Speaker 2: there more going on behind that where perhaps your partner
Speaker 2: isn't in her truth where she's dealing with things where
Speaker 2: she actually has a sexual higher libido than she is
Speaker 2: you know, actually expressing, or like we said before, of
Speaker 2: where maybe the other partner, like the man in this example,
Speaker 2: is maybe then distracting or using that, you know, as
Speaker 2: leverage for something else. So I think it's like first
Speaker 2: and foremost delving deeper into finding out where is the
Speaker 2: discrepancy with the libido? Is there one or is there
Speaker 2: more of a like an emotion like does the partner
Speaker 2: maybe perhaps have some sort of trauma around sex where
Speaker 2: she doesn't feel fully open and free exactly?
Speaker 5: And what I just wanted to actually say about that
Speaker 5: is if a woman's heart isn't open, her sex center
Speaker 5: is not going to be opened, and that's where the
Speaker 5: discrepancy can take place, because it's like more easier for
Speaker 5: men to get.
Speaker 4: Aroused and turned on without their heart open.
Speaker 5: So if there is a misalignment within that sexual container
Speaker 5: of the libido, one being low and one being higher,
Speaker 5: I'd be looking at is this woman actually being opened
Speaker 5: in the heart space? Is this woman is she actually
Speaker 5: getting turned on first and foremost through her heart through
Speaker 5: the love? Are you taking time?
Speaker 4: Does she feel safe?
Speaker 5: Are you taking time to actually explore the sexual container
Speaker 5: in a deeper way, not just like hey, yes, wambam,
Speaker 5: thank you, ma'am, I got one off. Yeah, of course
Speaker 5: there's going to be a sexual discrepancy there exactly.
Speaker 2: Is your focus on, like you said, is that focus
Speaker 2: on the end result, on the orgasm and releasing and
Speaker 2: getting off or is the focus actually on her pleasure
Speaker 2: and that connection.
Speaker 1: Look, there's a lot of people, I think in our
Speaker 1: society that would probably disagree with you, guys. I actually
Speaker 1: can't think of anyone I know that doesn't watch porn.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's my circle, who knows,
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying I think like everyone I know
Speaker 1: watches porn. But what you guys who are saying is
Speaker 1: so almost profound, Like I think I've just never really
Speaker 1: thought of porn as an energy exchange because it's a
Speaker 1: screen and screens, like there's a disconnection. Yeah, what would
Speaker 1: you say to people who disagree with you and think
Speaker 1: that porn is part of a healthy relationship?
Speaker 2: First and foremost is like a caveat, is like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is definitely just our opinion, and it's like everything
Speaker 2: we say is just the way we think about things.
Speaker 2: I think such an important thing is that everybody's entitled
Speaker 2: to their own opinion. And you know, I think this
Speaker 2: is why there's been so many problems in our world
Speaker 2: today of like this ego of like I'm right, you're
Speaker 2: wrong totally, So first and foremost, I think that just
Speaker 2: really and it's because I you know, we are both
Speaker 2: very passionate. I'm very passionate about the way I think
Speaker 2: about things. But it's awesome. So with full disclosure that
Speaker 2: this is just my opinion and it's not gospel by
Speaker 2: any stretch of the imagination for me, of that understand
Speaker 2: like I honestly now with my level of understanding and
Speaker 2: research and delving deeper into it, it's like, I honestly
Speaker 2: think porn is a weapon. I think porn is a
Speaker 2: weapon against masculinity especially, And it's almost like I almost
Speaker 2: see it's like almost like a weapon might be hard,
Speaker 2: almost like a test of like how can the masculine
Speaker 2: evolve to not take what's just there on offer and
Speaker 2: to do the more challenging work and then rather to
Speaker 2: take the easy option. And so that's for me is
Speaker 2: one like just understanding of what's happening chemically to the
Speaker 2: body in terms of the release of the chemicals, the
Speaker 2: pleasure of the variety in all of these things. So
Speaker 2: it's like it's kind of teaching us exactly. So it's
Speaker 2: like understanding on top of the energy exchange, of top
Speaker 2: of like the relationship that then builds between the masculine
Speaker 2: and the feminine collectively that there's a all of these
Speaker 2: opinions at these have come based on quite a lot
Speaker 2: of research and deep understanding and exploration. So first and foremost,
Speaker 2: that's kind of why I think porn is unhealthy, And
Speaker 2: there's a number of reasons why. For me personally, I
Speaker 2: think there's not space for it in my life. And
Speaker 2: that's for me personally. That's not to say that you
Speaker 2: can't have a healthy relationship with porn. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 2: not especially conscious porn exactly.
Speaker 5: Like to see the whole picture, to see what sex
Speaker 5: really is, what love making really is, what pleasure really is.
Speaker 1: How do you think porn is affecting our society? Like
Speaker 1: obviously you guys have your own clients. Do you see
Speaker 1: a lot of fractured relationships?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, I think it'd be one like unrealistic expectation.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and like painting that picture of what pleasure is like,
Speaker 5: you know, have you ever just been in a relationship
Speaker 5: where the sex is just like jack Hama, let's go, yeah, done, get.
Speaker 2: It off like that, come in place.
Speaker 4: I'm in place.
Speaker 5: It's like, yes, I love it hard and faster, not
Speaker 5: if there's no like heart involved, you know, like.
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and that's like it's the understanding of having
Speaker 2: that open heart and then the animal came to and
Speaker 2: that it.
Speaker 5: Actually takes a woman like at least forty five minutes
Speaker 5: to really warm up, like really be able to reach
Speaker 5: these fucking orgasmic states.
Speaker 4: It takes a while. Yeah, well look that's just the
Speaker 4: clid orgasm.
Speaker 2: I can do that in a second.
Speaker 4: But when we're talking.
Speaker 5: About g spot and sobicle orgasm, it's the whole other story.
Speaker 2: And I think it's like, also, I understand that it's
Speaker 2: it's everyone's individual.
Speaker 4: Everyone is individual.
Speaker 5: But what Paorn actually does is it paints this really
Speaker 5: narrow vision around what sex is.
Speaker 1: Do you have any tips for our listeners who have
Speaker 1: listened to you guys and they're just like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I want to have a sex life, like Hayley and Sam.
Speaker 1: How can people spice things up in the bedroom, make
Speaker 1: things more intimate? You know, I know this is a
Speaker 1: big one, but like have more open hearted sex and really, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, I think it's actually really simple. I think
Speaker 2: it's actually about listening, you know. I think it's about
Speaker 2: really opening the space to have conscious communication and to
Speaker 2: ask our part or what they want and to really
Speaker 2: listen to that, you know. And I think this is where,
Speaker 2: you know, my dad always said, we have two ears
Speaker 2: in one mouth and to use them in that ratio.
Speaker 2: And and I think especially around something like sex, because
Speaker 2: there has been so much taboo or you know, and
Speaker 2: people aren't necessarily really opening that conversation. And this is
Speaker 2: but so much like the sexual work of tantries about
Speaker 2: like before we connected, before we eat, we care, we kissed,
Speaker 2: but before we before we had sex, there's a ritual
Speaker 2: that that we go through it and it's like it's
Speaker 2: like a ceremony almost where we really speak into our
Speaker 2: boundary and our desires, like what we like and what
Speaker 2: we want, and it's to understand that everyone's so different,
Speaker 2: like we're all so different, especially especially women, with how
Speaker 2: you are turned on with what you do like, and
Speaker 2: it's like you could be with one woman who just
Speaker 2: loves loves this, and then the next one's like what
Speaker 2: the fuck.
Speaker 5: With that?
Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more? And then especially like you go
Speaker 3: off like body language and mannerisms, and then some women
Speaker 3: don't give you that and you're sort of like, what
Speaker 3: what do I do?
Speaker 2: You know exactly and not and not all men have
Speaker 2: necessarily nurchured and developed their emotional intelligence to a stage
Speaker 2: high enough where they can tune into the body language.
Speaker 2: And so this is why it's like, there's a great
Speaker 2: book called the for Agreements, the Four Agreements, and they
Speaker 2: talk one and big one about this is talking about
Speaker 2: not making assumptions. And even even when we're where we're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think, well, I feel like you like this, but
Speaker 2: it's to be really clear about it. It's like do
Speaker 2: you like this, Like is this something you enjoy? Because
Speaker 2: maybe because you know this, maybe the way.
Speaker 4: We've been conditioned for women is just to bend over,
Speaker 4: make a certain sound. Oh do I look good? Okay,
Speaker 4: he's having fun. It's all good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and exactly like faking organisms or things like this
Speaker 2: so that they and this this ability to then change
Speaker 2: that situation. So I think it's it comes back to
Speaker 2: listening and really clear communication.
Speaker 5: Just communication is the grounds to everything kind of especially
Speaker 5: to better sex.
Speaker 2: And speaking your truth, speaking your truth, like you know,
Speaker 2: this is what I like, this is what I don't like.
Speaker 5: And then we can go into the realms of self
Speaker 5: pleasure for women and how important it is to actually
Speaker 5: know what we like and know what we want, Yeah,
Speaker 5: know what we desire, I know what turns us on
Speaker 5: because it isn't just what porn has told us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for men as well to develop that relationship
Speaker 2: with their bodies, with themselves, Yeah.
Speaker 5: It's really under standing being union with your cock exactly.
Speaker 2: The cock tell the story my work. That the prime
Speaker 2: of my work is connecting the hearts of the cock,
Speaker 2: you know, having that relationship and to realize that, yes,
Speaker 2: there is a powerful tool. Yes, I mean most men
Speaker 2: we love our cock. But it's like having that healthy relationship.
Speaker 4: Who's in control?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And there was a time the cock there's
Speaker 2: the blood flowing. So and it's about having that healthy
Speaker 2: relationship with within the self first and foremost. I really
Speaker 2: nurtured and developing that relationship. And it's like I've met
Speaker 2: so many men who have yeah, because of pawn. They've
Speaker 2: then got insecurities about the size of their deck, you know,
Speaker 2: like and it's like you can be you can be
Speaker 2: hung like a horse and still have that you know,
Speaker 2: you can still be like, oh but it's not it
Speaker 2: could be bigger, you know. And then it's understanding, like
Speaker 2: that's not all it's about. Some women maybe they like
Speaker 2: that but not all. You know, it's understand we're also
Speaker 2: individual and we're all so unique and taking that step
Speaker 2: back because that's what I find what I've really noticed
Speaker 2: in a lot of my clients as well as that
Speaker 2: experience of insecurity and what that leads to because so
Speaker 2: much of sex it is happening up here, like so
Speaker 2: much of it is creating that safe space. So much
Speaker 2: of it is like not well, not being up here,
Speaker 2: so not thinking about these things, but being fully in
Speaker 2: the body we are.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that is the That is one of the
Speaker 5: main things that porn has conditioned us, is that it
Speaker 5: is just about the end result.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's not about the journey. It's about
Speaker 4: getting somewhere.
Speaker 2: And that's so relative of life.
Speaker 5: And that is really right.
Speaker 4: But that is also why women do things like fake orgasm.
Speaker 5: Because porn tells the man that if the woman doesn't
Speaker 5: have an orgasm, he hasn't done his job. Yeah, so
Speaker 5: that is where women are like, Okay, I don't want
Speaker 5: my partner to feel bad, so I'm just going to
Speaker 5: fake it in this moment, and then we end up
Speaker 5: in this cycle of neither of us really being satisfied.
Speaker 2: And exactly it's because then someone is afraid to speak
Speaker 2: their truth, like actually, what you're doing there, it isn't good.
Speaker 2: I just want you to finish so we can so
Speaker 2: we can stop this. So they instead they lie, they
Speaker 2: fake something and they lie and they're not enjoying it,
Speaker 2: and to so they.
Speaker 4: Can finish conscious communication, concious.
Speaker 2: Communication, like look, you know that's that's cute, but please
Speaker 2: don't really having this really create that safe space. And
Speaker 2: this is something even before and like I said, before,
Speaker 2: we connected of dropping into that and speaking around these
Speaker 2: things about what are what what do we like? What
Speaker 2: don't we like? What are the boundaries?
Speaker 5: And then like experimenting as well, and like you know,
Speaker 5: for a couple that has never you know, been in
Speaker 5: a love temple or understands this kind of work, you know,
Speaker 5: create the space like have candles, like you know, maybe
Speaker 5: have some some pleasure toys whereas like feathers and you know,
Speaker 5: other means before just penetration, you know, what else can
Speaker 5: you bring in to bring pleasure in? Because it's not
Speaker 5: just about the sex, it's about.
Speaker 4: The whole experience. So how can we be in more
Speaker 4: pleasure throughout the whole time?
Speaker 2: I love what you say here just about the senses
Speaker 2: as well. You know, like this isn't how to make
Speaker 2: sex better. Focus on the senses. Candles, soft lighting, sound,
Speaker 2: nice music, like the fuses, good smell, like these things.
Speaker 2: The senses are important, guys.
Speaker 5: Just to bring it back to balance. Every time Sam
Speaker 5: and I have sex, it is not always a love
Speaker 5: temple and candles, and you know, sometimes it is a
Speaker 5: quickie in the kitchen and that's fucking hot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's the balance.
Speaker 1: We have a lot of female listeners, and I know,
Speaker 1: like as you said, Haley, a lot of women get
Speaker 1: stuck in their own head during sex, whether that's I
Speaker 1: need to suck in my stomach. I don't want to
Speaker 1: show cellulite. You're doing so much to please. I know
Speaker 1: for me, when I was younger and I used to
Speaker 1: have sex, I couldn't orgasm until I finally learned to
Speaker 1: get out of my head and then it was like
Speaker 1: a piece of cake. But how do women start that
Speaker 1: journey of getting out of their head during sex.
Speaker 4: M Yeah, it's a big one. It is a big one. Yeah,
Speaker 4: But the first step.
Speaker 5: Would be coming into their own self pleasure practice. And
Speaker 5: when I work with any woman, it's always about do
Speaker 5: you have a self pleasure practice, okay, or is it
Speaker 5: just masturbation you know? Are you just rubbing one out
Speaker 5: getting it off like a lot of people are. So
Speaker 5: it's coming back into sex as an entire experience and
Speaker 5: knowing your body, knowing what turns you on, right, And
Speaker 5: it's about coming out of the mind and into the body.
Speaker 5: So we have to do that first and foremost with ourselves, because,
Speaker 5: like we said, everything is in external reflection of the
Speaker 5: internal world. So first of all, yeah, coming into that
Speaker 5: space of self pleasure within yourself. Yeah, And then it
Speaker 5: could even be a conversation as well with a partner.
Speaker 4: Like, Hey, this is my history. I feel like I'm
Speaker 4: in my head a lot. I worry about what I
Speaker 4: look like, I'm worried.
Speaker 5: About how I'm sounding, and this is something that's really
Speaker 5: alive for me, and I want to work on this.
Speaker 5: Can we work on this together? And then your partner's
Speaker 5: on board and your partner knows okay, baby, Yeah, I
Speaker 5: can feel that you're in your head right now. Just
Speaker 5: relax like that's when it comes into this beautiful union
Speaker 5: of healing together.
Speaker 4: You don't have to do it on your own. It's
Speaker 4: about being conscious about what is.
Speaker 5: Going on internally for you and then communicating that with
Speaker 5: your beloved.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, And I guess that just comes back to
Speaker 1: holding a space for each other and being able to.
Speaker 3: Communicate, make a safe space for you guys to chat about.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm not being scared to speak your true The
Speaker 5: power of vulnerability.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is one that you're always holding on about that.
Speaker 2: You know, vulnerability is connection, you know exactly once where
Speaker 2: you let down, like let down the armor, let down
Speaker 2: the defenses, like we're safe, you know where here we
Speaker 2: feel we feel safe with it's trust. Then one like
Speaker 2: it's the opening. And this is what I think especially
Speaker 2: for men to understand as well as women. But it's
Speaker 2: like to really understand, it's like it's not just the opening,
Speaker 2: it's the emotional opening. There's there's the energetics of this.
Speaker 2: It's not just the penis and the vagina. You know,
Speaker 2: this is not sex. This is this element of sex,
Speaker 2: but there's an energetic side of when you penetrate, when
Speaker 2: you enter into someone, there's an emotional connection as well,
Speaker 2: and so for them to be open, it's like, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: a woman can be turned on, she can be wet,
Speaker 2: all of these things, but that doesn't necessarily mean that
Speaker 2: she's open from this space of the heart, that she's
Speaker 2: emotionally ready and available. And once we can have that
Speaker 2: connection once, once she is, then we can really get
Speaker 2: into the fund.
Speaker 4: Then men, it's enlightenment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, talking to God. I just I think it's just
Speaker 2: important for men. I have to understand that because I
Speaker 2: think a lot of men in the past have had
Speaker 2: this negative attachment to emotions. But it's like this is
Speaker 2: this is a beautiful thing, this is it's all one,
Speaker 2: it's all part of the process. And the more we
Speaker 2: can be open to emotions, the more pleasure there's going
Speaker 2: to be on a physical side as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all linked. It's all connected.
Speaker 2: Guys.
Speaker 1: Thank you so like, from the bottom of my heart,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on our podcast. This
Speaker 1: has been the most powerful episode we've ever had. I
Speaker 1: have learned so much, Matt.
Speaker 3: I'm sure it's been amazing. I've actually like opened my
Speaker 3: eyes to a lot of things. I've Why have you
Speaker 3: been sitting here talking, I've just been like thinking about
Speaker 3: stuff chicking. I don't know if you could see they're
Speaker 3: definitely speaking some truths here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, from the bottom of our hearts. Thank you again
Speaker 1: for coming on. It's been amazing and we hope to
Speaker 1: talk to you again soon.
Speaker 4: Appreciate Thank you, guys, Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 5: It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Bye. Okay, guys, this conversation was too good. We only
Speaker 1: expected to do one part, but we've had to divide
Speaker 1: it into two separate parts because it's been so eye opening.
Speaker 1: So in part two we're going to talk all things
Speaker 1: jealousy and relationships. I know this is a huge one.
Speaker 1: It's a huge one for me, so we're going to
Speaker 1: dive into that in the next episode. Until next time, Bye,