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Speaker 1: From the newsroom and news still come today.

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Speaker 2: Hello there, I'm Andrew Bucklow, and in today's episode, you're

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Speaker 2: going to hear my colleague news dot com dot use

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Speaker 2: Bronti Coy interview one of the world's most respected royal correspondents.

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Speaker 2: And listen, you are going to be blown away by

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Speaker 2: his insights. Okay, he's going to review how King Charles

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Speaker 2: and Prince William really get on behind closed doors. He'll

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Speaker 2: discuss the possibility of Prince Harry being stripped of his

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Speaker 2: royal titles, and he shares the most unbelievable story about

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Speaker 2: the Queen's jewels getting stolen by a gang the palace.

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Speaker 3: Scott and my five involved. So a deal was struck

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Speaker 3: with Intelligent Services and the gang, and they tracked them

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Speaker 3: quite quickly that if they return the jewels there'll be

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Speaker 3: no further action.

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Speaker 4: Seriously, wait until you hear the rest of that story.

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Speaker 2: It is coming up in this fascinating interview, which I'm

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Speaker 2: going to play for you right now.

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Speaker 5: A juicy new royal book has just been released and

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Speaker 5: it delves into the dynamics between men of the royal

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Speaker 5: family behind palace walls, the highs and lows they've faced

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Speaker 5: over the last one hundred years and what it all

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Speaker 5: means for the future of the monarchy. The Windsor Legacy,

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Speaker 5: A Royal Dynasty of Secrets, Scandal and Survival is written

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Speaker 5: by Robert Jobson, a royal author and journalist who's covered

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Speaker 5: the Royal family on endless tours, engagements and major stories

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Speaker 5: over the past thirty five years, and he joins me, now, hello,

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Speaker 5: rob Hi, Then before we get into the specific details,

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Speaker 5: looking at everything you've learned. Now overall, what is the

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Speaker 5: Windsor Legacy as it stands today?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's survival. The resilience through one hundred

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Speaker 3: years since the Queen Lake Queen Princess Elizabeth was born,

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Speaker 3: shows you there's been some real serious ups and downs

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Speaker 3: from the application onwards really, and that other raw dynasties

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Speaker 3: throughout that period were unable to survive and just reply

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Speaker 3: to that period because they didn't really adapt to the surroundings.

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Speaker 3: So really, the Royal family many of the traditions that

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Speaker 3: we see today that we believe will be in place

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Speaker 3: for a long long time and actually were invented just

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Speaker 3: after the First World War, really to show that the

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Speaker 3: Royal family was listening, to show that the royal family

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Speaker 3: was prepared to change, so look they will do it

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Speaker 3: shows pretty much anything to make sure the old order survives.

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Speaker 5: There have been key junctions over the decades that you're

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Speaker 5: covering where the royals have faced these crises and massive

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Speaker 5: public scrutiny at which of those points. Now, looking back,

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Speaker 5: do you think they were forced to learn from mistakes

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Speaker 5: and make the most significant changes.

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Speaker 3: Well, to be honest, I don't think they have really

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Speaker 3: learned from mistakes over the years. I think there's been

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Speaker 3: a repetition of the problem with the spare. There always

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Speaker 3: seems to be issues with that goes, whether it's Princess Margaret's,

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Speaker 3: Prince Andrew, Prince Harry, and I think they've learned really

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Speaker 3: a lot there. I think also if we look at

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Speaker 3: what the crisis that are going on now, such as

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Speaker 3: the Epstein crisis and with regarding to Andrew Batten windsor

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Speaker 3: Prince Andrew and Harry, they sing huge still compared to

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Speaker 3: see the abdication crisis and even won the Eyelids through

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Speaker 3: which was the Charles and Dinah separation and divorce and

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Speaker 3: then the death of Diana. I don't think they do

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Speaker 3: necessarily compare in terms of the serious danger they put

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Speaker 3: upon the monarchy because they involved people closer to the

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Speaker 3: top job. I mean, that's the reason. I mean Charles

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Speaker 3: and Dinad's divorce could have had serious repercussions constitutionally because

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Speaker 3: it was involved in the future king with Andrew and Harry,

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Speaker 3: very were very unlikely to have a be king.

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Speaker 5: Throughout all these events that you're covering in the book,

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Speaker 5: what's really interesting is all the details about the members

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Speaker 5: of the family themselves and how they react in these

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Speaker 5: situations and how they react with each other. And I

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Speaker 5: want to talk about the king first because there's some

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Speaker 5: particularly intriguing words to describe him as a boss in there.

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Speaker 5: I think it's if I quote you wrote, it's like

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Speaker 5: treading on eggshells working for him, and that he shares

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Speaker 5: a fiery temper with Prince William. And I'll quote this

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Speaker 5: paragraph as well. Past staff members say surviving under the

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Speaker 5: boss Charles requires a touch of sicko fancy, and those

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Speaker 5: who fail to show the new deference that he expects

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Speaker 5: to receive rarely stick around. You're not mincing words there

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Speaker 5: at all, Robert. What kind of men is King Charles?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's unique. I mean the reality is is somebody

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Speaker 3: born speak king and that in itself brings its own

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Speaker 3: privileges but also its own problems. And I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of people would not understand what it will be

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Speaker 3: like to be in that position because it comes immediately

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Speaker 3: with a degree of sick offancy. Those people want to

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Speaker 3: be close to the king will you know, it's the

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Speaker 3: old empresor's closed story. You know. The reality is they

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Speaker 3: will do and say acts and doing things in a

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Speaker 3: different waye if they were dealing with another person. And

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Speaker 3: I think that there's also that sense that that person

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Speaker 3: will always be in that position of strength, and so

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Speaker 3: therefore people are coming and going, and that you're still

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Speaker 3: experiencing those same degree a sick infancy. People telling you

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Speaker 3: your ideas are one hundred percent perfect for their own reasons,

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Speaker 3: you know, mainly because they don't want to lose their jobs.

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Speaker 5: You also write a lot about the relationship dynamic between

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Speaker 5: Prince William and the King, and there has been a

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Speaker 5: lot of i suppose mixed messaging over the last couple

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Speaker 5: of years since Charles became the king about what their

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Speaker 5: relationship actually looks like. What's your understanding of how they

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Speaker 5: get along?

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Speaker 3: Well? I think that they get along fine. I mean

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Speaker 3: they both have roles to play. They're both very busy

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Speaker 3: in those roles that they play. But Totney Charles had

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Speaker 3: a better relationship, closer relationship with Harry before all the

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Speaker 3: issues happened. But you know, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: as any heir and any person that position the king

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Speaker 3: or the queen, it's going to be a more tricky

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Speaker 3: relationship because he has more meaning. You know, ultimately when

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Speaker 3: the king passes and William will be the monarch and

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Speaker 3: will have his own ideas and I think obviously you

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Speaker 3: know when you start airing those ideas publicly, he's talking

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Speaker 3: about Rowty with a small r in a way that

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Speaker 3: can undermine the position of the existing monarch. So they

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Speaker 3: have a working relationship and the loving relationship, but it's

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Speaker 3: not necessarily as deferential as say Charles's was with the Queen.

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Speaker 3: You know, they have differences of opinion over certain things.

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Speaker 3: Wian doesn't like wearing a kilts and things like that,

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Speaker 3: whereas that upsets Charles because the Lord of the Isles,

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Speaker 3: he feels he should support the people that make in

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Speaker 3: the Tartan and the industry small industries in Scotland that

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Speaker 3: do that and just little you know, there are issues,

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Speaker 3: but obviously you know they very much love each other

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Speaker 3: as father and son, but they don't necessarily always see

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Speaker 3: eye to lie. There's the long running battle over the helicopter,

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Speaker 3: whether a William should fly a helicopter with his family,

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Speaker 3: and I thinking like the late Queen didn't want her

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Speaker 3: to do that because it's it was perceived as too

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Speaker 3: dangerous for the line of succession. So you know, there

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Speaker 3: are issues that they do disagree on, and it's usually

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Speaker 3: to do with work, but there's a separation between work

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Speaker 3: and family, and.

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Speaker 1: You just mentioned it.

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Speaker 6: Then.

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Speaker 5: The King and Harry were once very close and obviously

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Speaker 5: we know that it's been really strained in recent years.

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Speaker 1: How does the King view that relationship now?

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Speaker 3: Do you think, Oh, it's undoubtedly strained. There's been a

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Speaker 3: lot said, even though if you actually do read Spare

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Speaker 3: Harry's book, once you get over some of the more

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Speaker 3: shocking real relations I don't think he's particularly critical of

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Speaker 3: his father in the way that he is saying Camilla

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Speaker 3: or William. I think that that has been a huge

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Speaker 3: strain on the relationship. Yeah, there's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 3: Has the distance because you know you're not seeing somebody

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Speaker 3: who quite so much does limit that that closeness. But

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Speaker 3: I think, yeah, the whole experience the key you voiced

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Speaker 3: it himself, didn't He's saying that, don't make the autumn

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Speaker 3: of my life the end of my life, my reign

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Speaker 3: a nightmare. And unfortunately, because of what's happening with the

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Speaker 3: Battle of the Brothers in particularly and all the things

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Speaker 3: that have been said by Harry which have the brand

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Speaker 3: of the monarchy, the damage has been done. And there's

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Speaker 3: no doubt about that. It has impacted on Charles's reign,

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Speaker 3: which in many ways has been dominated by the sense

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Speaker 3: of separation, the sense of almost broken. A monarchy, a

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Speaker 3: monarchy that's divided, without doubt, there's no doubt that it's

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Speaker 3: a crown divided when you have the two most prominent,

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Speaker 3: well and three most prominent, with the king as well

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Speaker 3: onswering each other.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned it there.

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Speaker 5: I found that paragraph with that little that insight into

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Speaker 5: the king's words to William and Harry. I think it

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Speaker 5: was right at the beginning of Spare as well. Harry

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Speaker 5: introduced it that way. It was heartbreaking, he said, don't

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Speaker 5: make my final years of misery, and it is at

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Speaker 5: such a human moment and it kind of just takes

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Speaker 5: you back to the core of It's a family divided,

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Speaker 5: but obviously with a huge amount of scrutiny on them.

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Speaker 5: There's such an interesting section of your book as well

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Speaker 5: about that meeting where Harry and the King finally did

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Speaker 5: actually see each other face to face, right after Charles

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Speaker 5: told the world that he had cancel last year.

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Speaker 7: The King has been see him for the first time

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Speaker 7: after revealing he has cancer. He traveled by helicopter from

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Speaker 7: Buckingham Palace to Sandringham, the royal estate in Norfolk, with

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Speaker 7: the Queen this afternoon. Before he left, he met Prince Harry,

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Speaker 7: who'd flown him from California. Today, their first face to

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Speaker 7: face meeting since the King's coronation last May.

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Speaker 5: You had some interesting new insights about how that very

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Speaker 5: very short meeting actually came to be so abrupt.

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Speaker 3: They were the first meeting was well recorded. Wasn't that

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Speaker 3: everybody was outside Clarents, That's what was happening. But I

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Speaker 3: think that that meeting, my understanding was that obviously Harry

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Speaker 3: was told by his father that had he had cancer

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Speaker 3: and then took it upon himself to come over straight away,

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Speaker 3: which I can fully understand. I think anybody who's on

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Speaker 3: the other side of the world and here a parent

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Speaker 3: is unwell, has been diagnosed with such a condition that

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Speaker 3: could there's such an illness that they would want to

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Speaker 3: come over and see what they can do, or say hello,

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Speaker 3: or you know, just just to give him a hug.

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Speaker 3: So when he arrived, I don't think the King was

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Speaker 3: in the great health at the time, really, you know,

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Speaker 3: he was just coming to terms of himself and I

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Speaker 3: think he wanted some time, quiet time alone and he

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Speaker 3: was tired, and Harry sort of turned up. Of course,

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Speaker 3: he waited around, changed his plans. He was used to

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Speaker 3: go straight to Sandringham for a long weekend, and then

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Speaker 3: the King held back and Harry turned up. But then

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Speaker 3: he basically said he had a procedure that he had

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Speaker 3: to have somebody came in the stat as time for

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Speaker 3: a procedure. It wasn't a procedure, it was just a

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Speaker 3: way of cutting them the meeting short. Probably after about

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Speaker 3: twenty five minutes. That's when things could start becoming repetitive

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Speaker 3: or you could get into sort of dangerous areas. I'm

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Speaker 3: sure the King didn't want to get into, not because

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Speaker 3: he didn't want necessarily spend time with his son, but

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Speaker 3: because he was, you know, just coming to terms of

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Speaker 3: the whole situation himself and wanted some time, i think

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Speaker 3: to deal with it. So a procedure didn't happen. He

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Speaker 3: just got on a helicopter and went to Sandry.

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Speaker 6: Let's bring you some breaking news that has come to

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Speaker 6: us in the last minute or so from Buckingham Palace.

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Speaker 6: His Majesty the King has today initiated a formal process

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Speaker 6: to remove the style, titles and honors of Prince Andrew.

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Speaker 1: On the late Queen.

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Speaker 5: It's very obviously, very hard to criticize her because she

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Speaker 5: was so beloved around the world and rightly so. But

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Speaker 5: from what we're seeing at the moment with this Andrew scandal,

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Speaker 5: which has just kept on happening, it's a death by

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Speaker 5: a thousand cuts. Really, How significant was her blind spot

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Speaker 5: when dealing with that problem back before she passed away.

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Speaker 3: Well, you have to remember that the late Queen would

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Speaker 3: only would have believed what she was told by Prince

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Speaker 3: and Andrew badwinsor he and so did Prince Charles, So

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Speaker 3: when they were when he was originally questioned about this,

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Speaker 3: he would have been very clear in what he said,

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Speaker 3: but I don't remember he would have started to what

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Speaker 3: he'd said all along, and that he said he had

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Speaker 3: no case to answer. But the reality is they weren't

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Speaker 3: really strong enough for decisive enuff because if they drilled

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Speaker 3: down courtiers around the Queen had questioned him forensically, he

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Speaker 3: would have They would have realized that there were some

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Speaker 3: serious issues that were unresolved, and therefore she may well

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Speaker 3: have she may well have taken more decisive action. I

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Speaker 3: think she should have probably taken more decisive action, but

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Speaker 3: it's easy in hindsight. This was a sum someone that

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Speaker 3: she loves, and she was probably trying to balance both

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Speaker 3: sides without actually knowing the full facts.

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Speaker 5: And obviously the Andrew crisis is the most recent, but

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Speaker 5: also would have to be up there among the most

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Speaker 5: significant crisis that the royal family has faced, and the

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Speaker 5: public cries for action, you know, in recent weeks was

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Speaker 5: almost deafening. But I've heard that you think that the

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Speaker 5: King's decision to strip Andrew of his titles and that

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Speaker 5: statement that came out a few weeks ago may have

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Speaker 5: been a mistake.

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Speaker 1: Can you elaborate a little bit.

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Speaker 3: On that, Well, only only because it just shows you

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Speaker 3: how easy is to strip back the monarchy from their titles.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm not saying that it was mistaken terms of

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Speaker 3: the result. I'm uncomfortable with a trial by media, but

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Speaker 3: you know, this is a decision that the Prince Andrew's taken.

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Speaker 3: It was even offered a chance to give evidence to Congress.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't want to do it because his advisors realize that

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Speaker 3: he could compromise himself. But I think that in a

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Speaker 3: in all honesty, it's a huge stain upon the royal

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Speaker 3: family's brand. It's a huge stain upon even the late

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Speaker 3: Queen for not taking decisive actions. So it's very, very

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Speaker 3: difficult to say deep this crisis is going to be.

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Speaker 3: But it doesn't. It seems to me that it's not

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Speaker 3: going away, even though the Royal family are trying to

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Speaker 3: distance themselves from it by actually stripping him of his title.

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Speaker 3: I think that in a way, for Republicans and people

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Speaker 3: that don't want the Royal family, it's made it easier

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Speaker 3: because you're saying, quite you know, if somebody does something wrong,

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Speaker 3: even if it's not been proven in a court of law,

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Speaker 3: if the public don't like it, then and the palace

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Speaker 3: are beginning to waver and worry that it could impact

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Speaker 3: the main player. Are you the king and William and

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Speaker 3: Kate in terms of there's there's not seemed to be

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Speaker 3: doing enough. Then they will do act and they will

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Speaker 3: strip them of the stripped him his title. Now there's

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Speaker 3: that suggesting the future that William might do that to Harry.

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Speaker 3: What it does show is he can do it if

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Speaker 3: he chooses to do it. The point of it is

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Speaker 3: is it does it strengthen the position of republicanism and

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Speaker 3: it weakens the position of the monarchy because it means that,

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Speaker 3: you know, a swipe of a penny can be changed.

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Speaker 2: I mean, wouldn't that be crazy if William actually striops

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Speaker 2: Harry of his royal titles when he becomes king.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't know just how likely that is.

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Speaker 2: Rob is going to reveal that in just a moment

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Speaker 2: plus then he's going to share that crazy story about

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Speaker 2: the Queen's jewels getting stolen. Welcome back, you're listening to you, dot,

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Speaker 2: I use Brontie Coy chatting to author Robert Jobson. Now,

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Speaker 2: just before the break, they were discussing the possibility of

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Speaker 2: William potentially stripping Harry of his royal titles when he

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Speaker 2: becomes king, just.

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Speaker 5: Yourself personally, from what you know about him in the situation.

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Speaker 5: Do you think William could take that action against Harry

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Speaker 5: when he becomes the king.

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Speaker 3: I think they're winning might look at the whole system,

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Speaker 3: maybe like they have done in Scandinavia and say, is

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Speaker 3: it absolutely necessary to have so many princes and princesses?

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm not necessarily saying that the Duke and

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Speaker 3: Duchess of Sussex will loose they're title? Was it really

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Speaker 3: necessary for Lily better Archie to be princes? Is it

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Speaker 3: really necessary to have so many princes and princesses, particularly

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Speaker 3: if they're not working for the royal family? I just

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Speaker 3: think it makes a bit of a mockery of a

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Speaker 3: system if they are effectively Americans. In his charge of

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Speaker 3: fifty years ago, the Americans booted out the monarchy jeors.

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Speaker 3: So so why would you want that, Why would you

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Speaker 3: need that? Why would you need more than the core

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Speaker 3: royal family? I don't think you do, and I do

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Speaker 3: think it will be a distraction going forward for Prince William,

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Speaker 3: and there'll always be this alternative royal family when he's king.

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Speaker 3: You know, this royal family across the water, and there'll

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Speaker 3: be this princes and Prince Princess Lily about, which in

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Speaker 3: itself is a bit strange given that that was the

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Speaker 3: queen's family name.

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Speaker 5: Further to what William may do in the future, because

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Speaker 5: we are seeing him really step up as a global statesman.

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Speaker 5: He talks about this royal with a small r. What

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Speaker 5: do you think that might look like in terms of

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Speaker 5: significant changes for the monarchy.

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Speaker 3: I think when he becomes king, I think he'll realize

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Speaker 3: that you can't mess around with the infrastructure too much

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Speaker 3: without damaging it. I think the kings is that now,

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Speaker 3: and it's all good talking about what you're going to

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Speaker 3: do when you are king. When you are king, I

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Speaker 3: think it's a completely different matter. The system is in place.

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Speaker 3: You have to serve you and to serve the system.

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Speaker 3: So to start chipping away at the system, which ABC

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Speaker 3: see a good idea when you're on the air to

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Speaker 3: this throne, it may not be such a good idea

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Speaker 3: when you are in the hot seat.

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Speaker 1: This book, as I said, there are so many stories

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Speaker 1: in it.

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Speaker 5: There is so many major moments, and you yourself have

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Speaker 5: covered so many royal moments over the years. But in

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Speaker 5: writing this what was what was one of your favorite

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Speaker 5: eras or stories that you uncovered in the process.

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Speaker 3: Well, A real jaw dropper, which sounds like a movie

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Speaker 3: to me. It was the moment that the queen's jewels

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Speaker 3: weren't missing from a motorway service station because the three

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Speaker 3: staff were driving off to take to get ready to

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Speaker 3: get on the plane to go to Canada. And this

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Speaker 3: is it when the queen was the Duchess of Cornwall

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Speaker 3: and they had all the jewelry that they were going

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Speaker 3: to take with them for the for the trip. And

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Speaker 3: on the way there they just have a coffee. They

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Speaker 3: stop off. I had a coffee to go inside. The

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Speaker 3: other one was supposed to stay with the car, but

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Speaker 3: went off for a cigarette, and just at that time,

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Speaker 3: there was a gang of thieves operating in that area,

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Speaker 3: and they went they took the bag of jewelsrobably not

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Speaker 3: knowing what the hell was in the bag, and made off.

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Speaker 3: It's like there's some sort of one of those sort

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Speaker 3: of strange movies. And then can you imagine the scene

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Speaker 3: when they got back from their coffee and the guy

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Speaker 3: comes back from having a cigarette and there's all the

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Speaker 3: jewels are gone, and apparently they phoned the Palace. The

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Speaker 3: Palace got m I five involved rather than rather than

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Speaker 3: a local police because then it would have been on

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Speaker 3: the local police news and everything. They didn't want to

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Speaker 3: do that. So a deal was struck with the Intelligent

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Speaker 3: Services and the gang and they tracked down quite quickly.

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Speaker 3: If they returned the jewels, there will be no further action.

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Speaker 3: So wow, And no action was taken and the jewels

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Speaker 3: were returned.

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Speaker 5: I think, yeah, no harm, no foul then, I suppose.

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Speaker 5: But I would love to see this film.

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Speaker 3: Prem Direction. I must get in touch with Direction.

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Speaker 1: We'll let him know.

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Speaker 5: You should be an executive producer. That'd be good. But yeah,

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Speaker 5: So The Windsor Legacy the Royal Dynasty of Secret, Scandal

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Speaker 5: and Survival is out now. It is a fantastic read.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much for chatting to me about it.

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Speaker 3: Rob My Pleasure, Thanks very much for having me on,

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Speaker 3: and a.

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Speaker 4: Big thank you to you as well for listening to

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Speaker 4: today's episode.

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Speaker 2: A reminder, if you want the latest Royal goss a,

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Speaker 2: you're going to do is stay tuned in US dot

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Speaker 2: com dot au.

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Speaker 4: With that almost Ryan, I'll catch you next week.

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Speaker 7: Follow us Subscribe to from the newsroom wherever you get

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Speaker 7: your podcasts,