WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 2 June 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:00.440 Lately. 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:04.720 Welcome to the Late Base. 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:08.760 Well, thanks for joining us on the Late Debate. I'm 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:12.640 James Macpherson with Caleb Bond and freyer Leitch. Coming up tonight, 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.919 Sydney Airport set to auction lost property. Wait until you 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:19.680 hear some of the unusual items that passengers have left 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:22.560 on planes that you can buy at an auction later 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.080 this month. Plus when we look at the papers, grocery 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:29.080 items set to increase in cost due to natural disasters, 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:31.840 and an interesting story on one of the front pages 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:35.560 tomorrow about the one city in this country where business 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:37.440 is booming. We'll tell you what that city is and 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.120 why we think it's the case a little later. But first, 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:45.479 South Australian school teachers are set to use AI to 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:50.920 mark student exams. Education Minister Blair Boyer says the technology 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.840 will give teachers more time to teach. The Australian newspaper 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.360 reported today that the task, or at least one of 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:01.280 the tasks that AI will accomplish, to gauge the literacy 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.320 levels of migrant students, usually taking teachers half an hour, 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.399 but the AI app does the same job in just 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:13.520 fifty two seconds. Last year, teachers manly assessed writing samples 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.800 of thirty one thousand students. The app is set to 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:22.600 save some fifteen thousand hours of manpower. Now, Freyer and Caleber, 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.000 I get why the Education minister would love this idea. 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.720 It means he doesn't have to spend more money on teachers. 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:32.479 But I reckon the focus of education should not be 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.120 saving the education budget. 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:36.200 It should be on children. 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.000 And using AI to mark their exams rather than a 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.000 human being means that you don't get a. 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:43.320 Teacher who's got a feel. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:47.319 For the strengths and weaknesses of students, and instead you're 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:50.760 going to get a very mechanical rather than a process 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:52.880 that is focused on individuals. 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.600 I think that's a bad thing. Freyer, tell me, I'm right. 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:58.280 I don't think you are. James. 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.760 Look, I think that AI is going to revolutionize so 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:06.240 many areas of our lives, and education is definitely one 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:11.040 of them. But from my perspective, having AI assisting teachers 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.399 in marking papers will be absolutely transformative. 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:17.000 Because about twenty percent of a. 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:21.640 Teacher's week is spent marking or writing student reports. 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:23.799 Twenty percent. That's around ten hours. 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.639 Imagine if that time could be spent well tru actually 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.080 looking after students. Well, a lot of it is like 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:35.160 standardized assessments that AI can very easily mark with less bias, 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:40.320 often more accurately, in a and in a much timelier fashion. 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:42.880 We've all been in that experience in school where you 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:46.200 do an assessment only to get the feedback a month later, 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.120 and at that point it's useless anyway. So I just 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.080 see a whole bunch of positives. 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:52.920 But it isn't that nature if we need more teachers 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.680 rather than AI is superior, because sure it's no bias, 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.680 but there's no nuance, there's no understanding of the individual 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:01.600 studentuds progress and where they're at. 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:03.960 Well, we've just had an each way elbow, so let 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.519 me do an each way elbow here. I can see 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.840 the four and against. I think there's probably a middle 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:14.800 ground where teachers incorporate AI into their work, but we 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:19.200 must not let AI supersede the teacher. And as for 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.720 getting more time back, they probably won't because teachers do 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:23.560 a lot of marking in their own time. It has 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:25.880 to be noted they take stuff home and do it 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:28.440 outside of school hours because there's simply no time in 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.480 school hours to get that stuff done, so it won't 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:33.480 actually buy them much time back in the classroom. That's 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:35.880 not the issue, but it will speed up the process 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.640 and AI will pick up on things that teachers might otherwise, 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:43.360 basic spelling errors and grammatical errors that when you've got 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.800 thirty papers to go through and you get to paper 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.680 twenty nine and you're kind of like, man, I need 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:50.720 a cup of coffee and or a glass of red 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.960 to get through the last one. AI won't have those problems. 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.360 But you are entirely right that what makes a good 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:01.120 teacher is the teachers care for the student, and so 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.200 the teacher understanding where a particular student is at, how 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.840 a particular student performs the particular issues that they're having 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:13.080 with the English language, or mathematics or whatever it might be, tenses, 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.960 you know, one hundred different things that a teacher can 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.680 instinctively feel and work with a student on. AI will 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.320 never be able to achieve. And the issue I have 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.679 is that we are going heading towards a world where 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:29.760 AI is going to replace lots of jobs, and then 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.520 we'll all be sitting around wondering, Oh, which is, who's 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.160 got any money left to spend? Because no one's got 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.640 any jobs anymore because AI is doing it all. So yes, 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.760 use it, but don't do it in a way that 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.839 means we as a people have nothing left to do. 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:43.960 I remember when I was. 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:45.640 At school, right, So you get a report card and 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.840 the report card was handwritten by the teacher, which would 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.560 have been laborious and would have taken ages. And as 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.560 you said, they would get to kid number twenty nine 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.440 and no doubt they'd be shortcutting. So they replace that 0:04:57.560 --> 0:04:59.800 with a tick the box thing like your child is 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:04.559 doing doing excellent, good, average, poor, very poor, And every 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.840 parent watching would know school reports tell you virtually nothing. 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:08.560 These days. 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:10.760 You have to go along to the parent teacher night 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.520 to sit down with a human being to actually find 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:16.280 out what's going on, because the report has become so 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.960 standardized and mechanical. And before you jump in, I jump in. 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.400 Go on, you know what could give you a really 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:27.200 detailed breakdown of exactly where your child is at, analyzing 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.800 every single assessment they've done, picking up on every bit 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:35.680 of syntax, eraror grammar numerously if it's in mathematics AI 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:39.279 because they can process vast quads and then give you 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:41.520 an extremely personalized. 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:42.920 Reportext message how it's going to go. 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.360 I got a voice of myil message from my mom today, right, 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.240 and my phone converts the voice my message to text, 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.320 and my mom sends me a message. Right at three 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:55.080 times she says, hey, babe, that's not the way my 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:55.719 mom talks. 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.919 You're not from that is not AI, that is AI. 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.160 Somehow I'm going to find every syntax. And my other 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.520 case soon is where does this go? I mean it. 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.280 Starts with AI marketing exams and eventually we end up 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:10.360 with classrooms like this. 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.120 Somebody's got to alert the media and expose to everyone 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.279 that this AI teacher thing is corrupt. 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:22.200 Put the phone. 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:35.440 Down than Yeah, I'll call it, Tim, We're right. 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.960 I think it's a bad idea, getting robots AI whatever 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.480 you want to call it, to do jobs that teachers 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.839 used to do. They used to do it. Well, we 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.880 just need more teachers. That's an issue for governments. Find 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:52.440 the money for the budget for teaching. There's plenty of 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.560 places to find government wastage. You don't need to revert 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:56.240 to AI to. 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:58.920 Say don't don't please, don't start talking about teaching in 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.120 an education budget, James. We spend more than enough on education. 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:04.160 We just don't spend it properly because we haven't gone 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.360 back to the drawing board and redesigned the system. But 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.600 you know again, I'll say what I said earlier. I 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.120 have no issue with AI being involved if it's a 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.200 tool that the teacher themselves is using to make their 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.600 work better. Because look, if the AI is a ripper 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.120 at doing the marketing, why couldn't the AIB ripper at 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:21.480 teaching the students. I mean, you can do it with 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.920 complete accuracy. I mean the kids will just be sitting 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:25.720 in front of a screen all day. They'll have no 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.960 human interaction whatsoever, no one who actually cares about We'll 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:30.080 just get a robot to do everything. 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:31.840 Why would the kid do an assignment if AI can 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:35.400 do the assignment? We have AI marketing exactly exactly. 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:37.320 That's where were living. And of course we showed you 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.440 this vision a few weeks ago. I think of a 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.200 bloke who was programming and an AI robot, and I 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.440 think this was in China and something went amiss and 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.680 it sort of went tropo at him, And I imagine 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.520 that's what a lot of these AI robots will look 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.080 like when they're going if you do badly exactly well, 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.520 that that's how the robot will be feeling as it's 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:58.560 trying to work out what the hell that kid in 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.840 year ten meant. I can't believe a ray of common 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.880 sense has come through today. You know, if you're a 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.240 regular viewer of this program or any other program I've 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.480 been on across Sky, if you're a regular reader of 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.240 my columns, you will know for years I have been 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.720 carrying on about the fact that the tobacco exercise in 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:19.160 this country is way too high, and for years I 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.440 have been warning that it will lead to a massive 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:27.200 illegal tobacco black market. That is exactly what we have now. 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.720 The latest numbers are that last year, forty percent of 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.920 all cigarette sales in this country we're of illegal cigarettes. 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.559 This is a problem created by the federal government because 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.800 they are the ones who levy the tax, and then 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.880 the poor old states are left to clean up the mess, 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.120 because of course it's the states that have the police 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.720 forces and enforce the local laws about the sale of tobacco. 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.640 So the states are saying, for Heaven's sake, can you 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.880 stop sending these illegal tobacco shops to our states. You know, 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.520 in Victoria there have been more than one hundred fire bombings. 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.040 It's spreading now to New South Wales and the New 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:05.280 South Wales Premier Chris Mins says something must be done 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.840 about it. He said today we ought to look at 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.199 reducing the tobacco excise. Take a look. 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.440 I'm not arguing with the public health benefits of putting 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:19.520 an excise on tobacco, but the massive increase has exploded 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.719 the ilicit tobacco marketplace. 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.440 Indeed it has He's quite correct. Go and look on 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.640 any main street anywhere in the country now they're just 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.959 full of tobacconists. And yet I thought everyone was giving 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.640 up smoking. I wonder why this might be. He said, 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.080 the federal government's not getting the excise that they thought 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.000 they would. The massive excise increase to tobacco has meant 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.200 that people haven't stopped smoking. They've just transferred their sales 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:48.120 into illegal tobacco sales, which I don't think is helping 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.720 New South Wales or any other state. So my view 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.400 is let's have a look at this policy and is 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.600 it working. No, it's not, is the simple answer there. 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.280 It takes the Premiere of New South Wales to point 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.320 this out. He also says, as we're formulating the budget, 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.280 the New South Wales government and the police are going 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.760 to have to make a decision about ruling out resources 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:10.520 to confront what is absolutely illegal behavior that is getting 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:14.720 police to tackle this crime crisis in terms of illegal tobacco. 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.640 He says that would mean allocating police officers that are 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.079 currently working on domestic violence cases and youth crime cases 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.200 and major organized crime networks in New South Wales, take 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:29.080 them off those important inquiries and send them into tobacco regulation. Yes, 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.520 ladies and gentlemen, this is where we are in twenty 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.720 twenty five, when a packet of legal cigarettes costs forty 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.679 to fifty dollars because the federal government is greedy and 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.199 thinks it needs all that tax. And then you look 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.920 around and everyone's now buying the illegal stuff. I mean, 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.600 we knew this was coming. It was always going to happen. 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:52.120 Chris Means is absolutely right. The excise has to drop 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.480 if you want any hope of fixing this problem. 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:56.000 Two things can be true at once. 0:10:56.280 --> 0:11:00.000 It is true that the tobacco excise is driving people 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:04.240 to the black market where they can get substantially cheaper cigarettes. 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:08.360 But it is also true that in New South Wales there. 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:13.240 Are about twenty tobacco compliance officers in the Department of 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.920 Health not even operating out of the police in the 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:23.320 Health department who are responsible for regulating twenty thousand tobacconists 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:28.880 in the state, twenty bureaucrats regulating twenty thousand tobacconists, many 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.680 of whom who are participating the black market have links 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:36.080 to organized crime. I think the primary issue here is 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:40.560 why are the police not regulating tobacco at the moment. 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:42.679 And I would say this is more of a failure 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.840 of Chris Minz's labor government to not step in earlier 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.640 and actually have the police crack down. You can just 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:54.200 walk down any main street and spot the illegal tobacconists yourself. 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.720 I don't get how hard it is to just look 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:01.040 on Google maps tobacconists, go in, find the illegal cigarettes. 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:01.360 And shut it down. 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.800 I think Chrismin's explained why they're not shutting these illegal 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.480 outfits downs because they're dealing with domestic violence, they're dealing 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.240 with youth crime. And if those then hire a law police, 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:12.319 then they could go after a lease. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.760 So Chris Mins, So Chris Mens has to fix up 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.439 Elbow's problem, that's what you're saying. 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:21.199 I'm saying Chris Mens needs to enforce the law by 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.720 getting police to shut down illegal tobacco. 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.480 You wouldn't have a legal problem if the federal government 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:28.800 wasn't so greedy with its ridiculous tobacco x. 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.800 You also wouldn't have this problem if Tobacconis knew that 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:33.959 if they sold illegal cigarettes they would end up in 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:35.120 jail for seven years. 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:37.600 Yeah, well you can, well you can threaten that. They've 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:39.480 already done that into state, by the way, and it 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.400 doesn't seem to have changed anything in Victoria or South Australia, 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.360 where the tobacco wars wars sorry, are continuing to spread. 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:50.240 I mean, the facts are obvious that the federal government, 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.640 what was it four or five years ago, was pulling 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.080 in nearly seventeen billion dollars a year in tobacco excise. 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.600 This year they project by the end of the financial 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.280 year they've pulled in seven point four billion dollars. That 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:06.439 is an enormous decrease. The smoking rate has only gone 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.400 from ten percent to about eight point six in that time, 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.440 so it almost halve your excise. Tells you where the 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.359 market is going. It's all going to illegal cigarettes, principally 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:19.160 because the federal government has increased the price of cigarettes 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.320 so much and I would say you could dramatically drop 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.760 the price of cigarettes. Let's go from forty fifty dollars 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:26.319 down to what you're paying for a packet of the 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.600 illegal ones fifteen to twenty dollars, and it will make 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.480 zero difference to the smoking rate, because in the US, 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.120 with this smoking rate is ten percent, a packet of 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:40.160 durries Australian dollars on average costing twelve dollars and thirty cents, 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.800 and their smoking rate is almost the same as ours, 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:44.680 So it doesn't work in stopping people. 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.680 I'm very sympathetic to your argument that we want to 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:49.480 crack down on crime and we don't want to go 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:51.960 easy on criminals. But this is a crime that was 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:55.560 literally created by the Government's very different to most other 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.880 crimes that are crime against people or that are obvious. 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.080 This one would not exist except for government policy. So 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.760 the government could change their policy, the crime disappears, police. 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.880 Can focus on what's important. That's chris Min's point. 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.000 Well, the last thing I would add to that before 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.360 we move on, is that these illegal gangs who are 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.640 running the tobacconists would have been dealing in hard drugs 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.319 or other things, but they've done the risk reward calculation 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:20.560 and realize, heck, I can make a lot of money 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.120 selling illegal tobacco and I won't get caught because the 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:24.840 police aren't even enforcing the law. 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:26.600 So let's start there before we cut. 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.000 The way and the border force, by the way, because 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.920 it all comes through entertainers, so you know, the federal 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:33.720 government's creatory. 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.160 So the failure of law enforcement and policy at many, 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.800 many levels. But let's move on now to the US, 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:43.040 where Donald Trump's ongoing feud with Harvard is quite entertaining. 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.160 Initially it was all around getting them to take stronger 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:50.560 action on anti Semitism, but now his crackdown on Harvard's 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:56.440 international students has expanded to Chinese international students as well. 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:01.400 Now it has been noted in an article that the 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:06.560 Harvard University is such a popular university for the Chinese 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:12.400 Communist Party to send its officials, its rising political stars to. 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.960 It's even been named the party school. 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:21.000 Many senior CCP officials, including former VPS, members of the 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:27.480 Chinese Pollit Bureau, and even Jijingping's own daughter have gone 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:33.320 to Harvard University. So that raises some significant concerns. It's 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.840 also deeply concerning when you think about the number of 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:42.560 international research collaborations between the US and China, also Australia 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.920 and China, and the potential access to sensitive information that 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.480 the CCP may be getting through our universities. I just 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.920 find that particularly shocking, and it's a problem we have 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.240 here in Australia as well, because the reality is the 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:01.240 fees for international students at Western universities are so high 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.920 that really only the elites of Chinese society can afford 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.280 to send their kids to Western universities. But then the 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.720 next question is who are the elites of Chinese society. 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.680 Chances are at some point you've either had to be 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.080 a member of the CCP to advance in your political career, 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.200 in your business career, or at least not critical. 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:23.280 And so I think Donald. 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:28.040 Trump's efforts to root out CCP influence and infiltration on 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:32.240 US university campuses is very welcome. I just wonder if 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.960 our government here in Australia would ever have the guts 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:36.040 to do the same thing. 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:37.280 Well, it's a really good question. 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:41.960 Let's ever listen to Homeland Security Secretary Christy Nome talking 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.000 about what the Trump administration is so upset about, particularly 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:46.600 with regards Harvard. 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.840 They've allowed their students to participate in activities that are 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:56.480 paramilitary activities and supported them and feeding information back to 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.760 our enemy, which is communist China. In fact, even the 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:04.280 lead Hijipingov China's daughter has a degree from Harvard. And 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.320 hundreds of thousands of these foreign students have come into 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.120 our country, and our universities have facilitated it because they 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.840 pay full tuition. They've taken away opportunities from our American students. 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.280 And the universities have asked for this, haven't day frayer 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.040 because they have been given opportunity to do something about 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:27.040 anti Semitism, about discrimination, about work ideology that they continue 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.359 to perpetuate, and about the Chinese influence, and on every 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.400 point they've declined. 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:32.880 To take any action. 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:38.040 Famously, the former president of Harvard University, Claudine Gay, said 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.080 that calling for Jews to be killed was probably wrong 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.480 depending on the context. Well, no wonder the Trump administration 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.879 has had to step in. I just think we've found 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.160 out over the last couple of years that universities are 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.280 ground zero for a lot of the ills that are 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.639 besetting Western culture. And sure it's going to cost universities. 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.800 It's going to cost business. It's going to cost reputation 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.960 Trump to take the action he's taking. But you either 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.479 pay now or you pay later. And Trump has just 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.359 decided at some point we've got to deal with foreign 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:13.760 influence in our nation being imported by universities without regard 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.760 for what it's doing to the social fabric, let alone 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.640 to national security. So you say, we'll pay the price now, 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.960 we'll deal with it. And that's what he's doing. And 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.280 I take your point. I think it's something that the 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.480 Australian government. I don't think they will, but the Australian 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:29.720 government could have a look at as well. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.119 You mean, the handsome boy won't be taking much notice 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.280 of whether or not we're training up CCP operatives. I'm 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.560 truly shocked, James, and we should note you say there 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:40.800 that you know, universities have become the source of any 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.640 of the ills of the world by design. You know, 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:46.280 this has all been very deliberate. This is what the 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.960 long March for the institutions is all about. But why 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:53.240 should we sovereign nations in the West voluntarily train up 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.399 people to go back to you know, what are essentially 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.800 enemy countries like China and use the skills that we 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:01.560 have given them to then go on and become the 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.480 ruling class. We have no obligation to do that. The 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:10.320 problem is universities have become businesses. And it's true across 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:14.439 the Western world. It's no longer any more about creating 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:18.159 bright minds and fostering bright minds and people who go 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:21.200 on to achieve great things for their country. It's become 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.520 about how many dollars you can get through the front door. 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:25.679 I've said it many times. Where we went wrong in 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:30.560 Australia was when Julia Gillard uncapped university enrollments in I 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:34.159 think it was twenty ten, and that was basically the 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.639 green light to say that anyone and everyone can go 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.000 to university, and anyone and everyone should go to university, 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.320 and especially if you want to pay full to odds 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.520 to come from overseas, because we want that money. Why 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.280 would we give that privilege to people who we know 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.320 traceably are going to go back and then do things 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:54.800 that may well harm our own country. I mean we 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:57.159 may as well pick up the phone right now and say, 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:00.960 oh you Mobert Harmas, get your ass down Australia were 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:03.080 we're going to train you up. I mean, that is 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:07.439 how ridiculous. The proposition is of training up the sons 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:09.600 and daughters of CCP members. 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.120 Yeah. Well, if CCP members want to skip the US 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.200 and come to Australia, they can go to Macquarie and 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.080 become experts in indigenous studies. 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:19.399 Or they could win, Yeah, and will lock them up 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:20.960 like they did to Chung Lay. I mean, you know, 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:21.520 fear fear. 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:22.560 I tell you what's funny. Though. 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:25.080 The Guardian were reporting on this and they reckon that 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:28.480 the reason Trump is cracking down on universities, He's trying 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:32.679 to stifle all descent so he can implement his authoritarian agenda. 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.240 So there you go, speaking of funny. 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:39.000 I had to laugh at advertisements taken out in major newspapers, 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.760 particularly the Australian Financial Review over the weekend by TikTok. 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:45.600 They took out four and a half pages of advertising 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:51.240 to promote themselves to parents. TikTok, as it turns out, 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:52.960 is an educational tool. 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:53.119 Now. 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.800 The reason they're doing this is the Albanezy government has 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:59.119 promised by the end of this year to introduce age 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:03.040