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Speaker 1: Woolies and Coals facing claims they misled consumers about the

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Speaker 1: savings they were making during their discount promotions. And look

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Speaker 1: at the headlines of the papers here in Adelaide today.

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Speaker 1: The advertiser says prices are not down down. The Australian

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Speaker 1: sums it up really well, discounts on truth in every aisle,

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Speaker 1: and that is it. The a triple C alleging the

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Speaker 1: supermarket giants increased prices briefly before putting hundreds of items

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Speaker 1: on sale to make it seem like we were getting

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Speaker 1: a bigger saving than what was actually the case. In

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Speaker 1: some cases it's claimed the new sale price was the

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Speaker 1: same or higher than the products had been sold for

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Speaker 1: some six to twelve months before. So it's the example

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Speaker 1: I gave, if you know, call it what you will.

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Speaker 1: As an example, a packet of chew is going for

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Speaker 1: a dollar, the price hiked up to a dollar fifty

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Speaker 1: and then a few months later discounted to a dollar

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Speaker 1: twenty five. So you think you're getting a saving when

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Speaker 1: really they're making twenty five cents for every they sell.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it was chowis or a whole

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Speaker 1: range of other things. There's a range of examples given

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Speaker 1: in the media reports and in the A Triple C allegations.

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Speaker 1: But you know Coles and Woollies taking us for a ride.

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Speaker 1: And I suppose we've known this deep down, haven't we?

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Speaker 1: That prices and I can recall somebody ringing up how

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Speaker 1: come prices are this when they used to be that

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Speaker 1: not that long ago. In the last few months, somebody

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Speaker 1: called in and gave me a few examples very similar

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Speaker 1: to what we're hearing about today. Senator Nick McKim green, Senator,

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Speaker 1: Chair of the Senate Select Committee on Supermarket Prices. Senator,

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Speaker 1: good morning. This comes, as I suppose, to some degree

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Speaker 1: little surprise.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Matthew. Yeah, look, no real surprise on this.

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Speaker 2: We did our best to dig into the kind of

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Speaker 2: pricing details of the A Triple C has really been

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Speaker 2: able to firm up now, and from what we found,

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Speaker 2: there was no doubt that price gouging was going on

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Speaker 2: by both Coles or worse, and that's their using their

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Speaker 2: market dominance to engage in behavior that they otherwise wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be able to do if there's more competition in the

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Speaker 2: supermarket sector. But the atribus these allegations are extremely strong

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Speaker 2: and if those allegations are proven, it would just be

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Speaker 2: disgraceful behavior that's by the big suitmarket corporations. It's utterly

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Speaker 2: contemptuous of Australian shoppers.

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Speaker 1: Brad Banducci who resigned a few months ago, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if he's still there or not, or is actually left,

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Speaker 1: but gosh, if he hadn't resigned, then he'd almost have

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Speaker 1: to now, wouldn't he.

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Speaker 2: Well. I think both the CEOs of CALS and were

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Speaker 2: worse have got some serious explaining to do here. I

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Speaker 2: mean this is, let's be really clear about what's happened.

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Speaker 2: They've put up price gougers, price prices, which is actually

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Speaker 2: price gouging, and unfortunately, price gouging is not illegal in

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Speaker 2: Australia at the moment, and whether it's supermarket corporations or

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Speaker 2: airlines or energy corporations, there's a real lack of competition

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Speaker 2: in a lot of sectors in our economy which is

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Speaker 2: allowing big corporations to price gouge. So they've put up

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Speaker 2: prices and then they've brought them down a little bit,

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Speaker 2: not back down to where they were, and they're claiming

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Speaker 2: then that the consumers are effectively getting savings. They're basically

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Speaker 2: claiming that prices are going down when actually they're going up.

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Speaker 2: And you know, that's maliciously deceitful behavior and something that

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Speaker 2: the CEOs have have got some explaining to them. And

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Speaker 2: if these charges are proven, I would expect heads to

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Speaker 2: roll from very sonia positions in both Carls and will Worth.

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Speaker 1: Apart from heads, what sort of penalties could they face

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Speaker 1: should they face.

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Speaker 2: Well, the penalties in the consumer law and in competition

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Speaker 2: law in Australia are up to fifty million dollars. But

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Speaker 2: obviously the point here is that if it's just the

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Speaker 2: corporations paying the penalties, ultimately its shoppers who are going

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Speaker 2: to pay for this disgraceful behavior. And what we need

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Speaker 2: to do is make sure that it's not just the corporations,

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Speaker 2: it is actually the individual people within those corporations who

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Speaker 2: are responsible for this behavior, who pay significant penalties for it.

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Speaker 2: Because until we start to penalize the CEOs and the

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Speaker 2: senior executives, and remember the CEOs themselves are a multimillion

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Speaker 2: dollars annual salary and bonus packages, and until they pay

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Speaker 2: the price, this sort of behavior will keep happening. So

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Speaker 2: it's no real good finding the corporations, because ultimately it's

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Speaker 2: the shareholders and the shoppers that just end up ordinary

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Speaker 2: Australian people who just end up paying those fines. We've

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Speaker 2: got to make sure the fines are shed at home

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Speaker 2: to the senior managers and the CEOs her responsible.

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Speaker 1: You almost need to be a shareholder so you get

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Speaker 1: some benefit back from from all of this, don't you.

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Speaker 1: You get a dividend at least, and that's something well, well.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Look, I mean, you know, lots of Australians

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Speaker 2: would be share through to pension funds or other consult

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Speaker 2: consolidated funds in this reprenuation. But at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, this is about core bad corporate behavior and

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Speaker 2: we have to have people who are prepared to stand

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Speaker 2: up and fight against these big corporations. It's why the

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Speaker 2: Greens established the Senate inquiry in the supermarket pricing in

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Speaker 2: the first place, and that's why I effectively threatened to

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Speaker 2: throw mister Bandouci in the slammer for not answering questions

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Speaker 2: at that inquiry. We've got to have people ready to

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Speaker 2: stand up and fight against these big corporations and that's

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Speaker 2: something that the Green's got a track.

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Speaker 1: Record is that why he refused to answer questions because

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Speaker 1: the truth of this might have come out.

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Speaker 2: Well, the questions that he refused to answer related to

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Speaker 2: the profits of Wilworths. And you know this is all interrelated, right,

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Speaker 2: like this sort of behavior that cals are more worth

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Speaker 2: are alleging. As I said earlier, it's made possible by

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Speaker 2: their market dominance, which is why we need divestit to

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Speaker 2: laws in Australia, like most other so called free market

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Speaker 2: economies around the world have got, but we don't have

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Speaker 2: here in Australia that would provide the powers for the

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Speaker 2: a Triple C to go to the courts and seek

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Speaker 2: an order that breaks up the supermarket jobily and requires

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Speaker 2: more competition in the sector. But all of this behavior,

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Speaker 2: the price gouging, the misleading of customers can occur because

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Speaker 2: we don't have divestite laws, and we don't have laws

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Speaker 2: that make price gouging illegal in Australia. And the Grains

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Speaker 2: have introduced only a few weeks ago into the Senate

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Speaker 2: laws that would actually make price gouging illegal in Australia

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Speaker 2: and which would then of course put downward pressure on inflation,

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Speaker 2: which would put downward pressure on interest rates, which would

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Speaker 2: allow us to provide some relief to mortgage holders who

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Speaker 2: are getting smashed at the market high interest rates.

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Speaker 1: And given the two of them have the same to

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Speaker 1: eighty percent the same ownership, I mean, it's more a

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Speaker 1: monopoly than a duopoly in any case.

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Speaker 2: Look, it's got a lot of elements of a monopoly,

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Speaker 2: and there's no doubt that. I mean, whether you call

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Speaker 2: it a monopoly or a duopoly, there is a lack

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Speaker 2: of competition and the farmers are paying the price for

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Speaker 2: that because of the lopsided purchasing power and the market

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Speaker 2: domination that the two big corporations have when they're buying

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Speaker 2: goods from primary producers and farmers. And then of course

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Speaker 2: turn around and had the checkout where we've all been

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Speaker 2: horrified in recent times with you you fill up your

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Speaker 2: trolley with a third or a quarter of the trolley

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Speaker 2: and suddenly it seems to be costing you a couple

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Speaker 2: of hundred bucks more than it did a year ago.

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Speaker 2: Customers are paying the price for this lack of competition

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Speaker 2: and this really poor, greedy corporate behavior.

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Speaker 1: All right, Senator, appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, No thanks, Matthew.

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Speaker 1: Senator Nick McKim who is a Green Senator and chair

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Speaker 1: of the Senate Select Committee on Supermarket Prices, in the

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Speaker 1: wake of the A Triple C taking Woolies and Coals

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Speaker 1: to court over their alleged prices dropped and down down campaigns.

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Speaker 1: When the jingle should be up up, up, up and away,

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Speaker 1: perhaps here's that song instead