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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Q and A where we

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Speaker 1: ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and more.

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Speaker 1: I'm Sean Almer. Today the Federal Government Social Media Band

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Speaker 1: comes into effect, raising the age that teens in Australia

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Speaker 1: can access social media from thirteen to sixteen. It's an

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Speaker 1: extraordinary piece of social reform and one being watched right

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Speaker 1: around the world. And it goes back to a campaign

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Speaker 1: that kicked off last year called thirty six Months, representing

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Speaker 1: the three years between thirteen and sixteen. One of the

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Speaker 1: organizers of the campaign is radio presenter Michael Whipfley, better

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Speaker 1: known as Whipper, one third of the Nova Sydney breakfast

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Speaker 1: show FITZI and Whipper with Kate Ritchie. Of course, Fear

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Speaker 1: and Greed is a proud partner of Nova Entertainment. Whipper

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fear and Greed Q and A.

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Speaker 2: John, Thank you, Mane, thank you for having me on.

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Speaker 1: What's it feel like to be so successful to have

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Speaker 1: something in mind, run a campaign, an advocacy campaign, and

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Speaker 1: end up with the world first.

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Speaker 3: Sean, it feels I mean, it's a very generous way

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Speaker 3: of positioning it. It does feel it feels like relief,

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Speaker 3: to be honest, but it's also very satisfying in that

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Speaker 3: I believe the government has simply heard what the parents

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Speaker 3: and the people of Australia have asked for and they've

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Speaker 3: delivered on that. I'm sure there was some technique and

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Speaker 3: a few social pressures that need to play out as well,

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Speaker 3: but you know, the Prime Minister heard the voice of

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Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty thousand people that signed the petition.

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Speaker 3: They heard the Commonwealth of Australia heard the mums and dads,

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Speaker 3: and they said.

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Speaker 2: We can do better. We can do better than this.

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Speaker 3: And I think it takes a bit of strength also

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Speaker 3: to be able to stand up and say, you know what,

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Speaker 3: this isn't going to be easy. This is going to

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Speaker 3: be a bit of a rough road. There's going to

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Speaker 3: be some muddy waters and confusion, absolutely there will be,

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Speaker 3: but we need to start somewhere and that's what I

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Speaker 3: think this represents.

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Speaker 1: And you managed to get bipartisan support as well with them.

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Speaker 2: We did, we did.

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Speaker 3: Peter Dutton had worked very closely with David Coleman, and

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Speaker 3: David Coleman had been in the mental health space for

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Speaker 3: a very long time, sort of twenty years in politics,

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Speaker 3: and he was also able to see and speak on

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Speaker 3: behalf of the impact of social media, So there was

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Speaker 3: very sensitive to him and in turn very sensitive to

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Speaker 3: Peter Dutton as well. So when he joined us on

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Speaker 3: the show and said that he puts it at the

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Speaker 3: top of his list for the first one hundred days

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Speaker 3: if his government was to get into power or then

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Speaker 3: we knew we had a good start because that was

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Speaker 3: before the Prime Minister had committed to making a change.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's going to be a rough morning for a

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Speaker 1: few parents, let's face it, a rough week, maybe a

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Speaker 1: rough month. What difference do you think it will make ultimately?

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Speaker 3: The long term difference will I believe give parents but

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Speaker 3: also the kids a bitter peace of mind without the

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Speaker 3: cloudiness of the impact of social media. And I'm not

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Speaker 3: talking about just the presence of bullying and judgment and

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Speaker 3: ranking and all those sorts of things, but also the

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Speaker 3: impact of They talk about doom scrolling, and they talk

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Speaker 3: about the impact of sitting their mind while you continue

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Speaker 3: just to look at different things that are presented in front.

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Speaker 2: Of your eyes.

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Speaker 3: There's better ways to doing that, and I think we'll

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Speaker 3: be able to measure that in time. But that's the

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Speaker 3: two major key sides to this. It's the smart algorithms

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Speaker 3: that play on the vulnerability of kids. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: a insecurity amplifier. That's exactly what social media does. And

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Speaker 3: there's many many examples of that, and we've been talking

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Speaker 3: about you know, for instance, you know, social media will

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Speaker 3: do a couple of things. If a young girl posts

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Speaker 3: a photo of herself and then she deletes it, the

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Speaker 3: social media platform will recognize that, they'll market products to

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Speaker 3: her based on that, and they'll start selling other things

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Speaker 3: and being specific about targeting her on appearance, weight, fashion,

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Speaker 3: whatever it might be. She becomes a clear target based

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Speaker 3: on her behavior. That's just one of many examples of

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Speaker 3: how they work.

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Speaker 1: You've been everywhere with this campaign over the last year.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you were as a guest at the UN.

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Speaker 1: I guess at the Prime Minister at the un what's

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Speaker 1: that experience been like and what has been the reception

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Speaker 1: outside Australia.

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Speaker 2: Your reception has been great.

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Speaker 3: In fact, you know, very early on, you know, when

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Speaker 3: the Prime Minister committed to making a change in the law,

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Speaker 3: you know, twelve months down the track, we had a

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Speaker 3: lot of great interest from the UK. We had a

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Speaker 3: team from Japan flay out to have a conversation about this.

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Speaker 3: It was only last week a team from the Philippines.

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Speaker 3: We're engaging in a conversation with thirty six months about

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Speaker 3: how do we.

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Speaker 2: Do this, what's the blueprint, what does it look like.

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Speaker 3: So by the time we got to the UN as

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Speaker 3: well Sean, we had, you know, the European Commissioner there,

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Speaker 3: we had the Prime Minister of Greece, prime Minister of

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Speaker 3: Fiji wanting to know is this possible. So the resounding

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Speaker 3: thought was based on the UN and the General Assembly

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Speaker 3: was great work, great effort. We're watching closely. So we

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Speaker 3: do know that there's a lot of eyes on Australia

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Speaker 3: with this new law.

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Speaker 1: Do you expect many legal challenges? So there are reports

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Speaker 1: today that Reddit is we'll go to the High Court

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Speaker 1: and challenge it. Of course there's the couple of kids

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Speaker 1: affronting a High Court challenge as well on this, basically

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Speaker 1: saying that we're impeding or the suggestion is that it's

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Speaker 1: impede's kids' ability to do part of the political discourse.

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Speaker 1: That's broadly the argument. Do you expect much of that?

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Speaker 1: Do you expect it? We'll get anywhere.

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Speaker 3: No, Look, I don't expect it'll stand to be honest,

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Speaker 3: I think the overwhelming support is the common sense that

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Speaker 3: needs to prevail here, you know, platform to platform in

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Speaker 3: terms of what they supply and what they offer, and

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Speaker 3: their interaction with the government and where the law sits.

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Speaker 3: That's another thing that's a conversation for them to have.

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Speaker 3: I think. I think as far as families and kids go, Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: like you mentioned, it's going to be tough for kids.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be tough for parents. You know from

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Speaker 3: the experience we've had as well when we've visited schools

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Speaker 3: and we've had the conversation about supporting school support through

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Speaker 3: friendship groups, understanding platforms. You know, the last question we

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Speaker 3: would ask would be if anybody if social media didn't

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Speaker 3: exist and your friends weren't on it, would you be

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Speaker 3: happy if this was the world that we lived in

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Speaker 3: and every hand would go up? So I think it brings,

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Speaker 3: you know, some relief for the parents but also for

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Speaker 3: the kids. But in time, that'll need to be the

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Speaker 3: behavior change that follows the law.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Do you think that the social media giants

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Speaker 1: have done enough or maybe we've got to wait and

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Speaker 1: see that actually doesn't move up.

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Speaker 3: I think we're going to need to wait and see.

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Speaker 3: I mean Julian Rohn Grant and an Alceer Anika Wales

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Speaker 3: have said that, you know, we'll hold a torch to

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Speaker 3: the toes and see how they go. I mean my

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Speaker 3: understanding is that warnings will be given until a fine

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Speaker 3: is actually applied to anybody that doesn't fit the rules

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Speaker 3: that Australia is now setting.

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Speaker 2: So we'll just have to see how that plays out.

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Speaker 1: What's next with them? This is the incredibly successful advocacy.

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Speaker 2: What's the next? Great question Christmas?

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Speaker 1: Are they don't rest on your laurels, don't rest on

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Speaker 1: your lives.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know. You know what we have.

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Speaker 3: We have been talking as atainment thirty six months because

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Speaker 3: you know, we need to be able to work out

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Speaker 3: I mean, sure, that's a great idea, and yes, we

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Speaker 3: absolutely believe that this is the right place to play

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Speaker 3: and we know that it won't be smooth, but in time,

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Speaker 3: I think we'll see the logic in what we're doing,

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Speaker 3: but we.

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Speaker 2: Need to be able to measure it as well.

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Speaker 3: So we have been working on a few things because

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Speaker 3: you know, some tools that could be placed within schools

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Speaker 3: because we know that that's where things are amplified. Also,

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Speaker 3: you know, if it's happening for kids, it often is

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Speaker 3: reading the playground. So we like to believe that there's

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Speaker 3: a tool out there that can show the impact as

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Speaker 3: the Prime Minister set of kids getting off social media

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Speaker 3: and getting onto the sporting fields.

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Speaker 2: We'd like to see that.

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Speaker 1: We've congratulations in quite the achievement. And thank you for

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Speaker 1: talking to us this morning on Fear and Greed.

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Speaker 2: John, Thank you for having me on Mate Love the podcast.

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Speaker 1: That was Michael Whipper Whippley, one third of the Nova

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Speaker 1: Sydney Breakfast team fits in Whipper with Kate Richie and

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Speaker 1: our organizer of the thirty six Months campaign, who as

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Speaker 1: much as anyone, is responsible for the social media band

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Speaker 1: that kicks in today. If you've got something you'd like

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Speaker 1: to know, then send through your question on LinkedIn, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: Facebook or at beiringreed dot com dodau. I'm sure, I alma,

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Speaker 1: and this is Beer and Greed Q and a