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Speaker 1: I'll get a doctor. Sam. Welcome back to you project.

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Speaker 1: How are you?

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Speaker 2: Thanks? Great? Good? How are you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm good. How's so you're on the other side

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Speaker 1: of the continent. I'm right, you're in Perth.

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Speaker 2: Right, I'm in Karatha, which is WA so yeah close.

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Speaker 1: So how I think I asked you this? I should

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Speaker 1: have remembered. But what is that? Like? Eight hundred kilometers?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm not really good with mouth. It's about it's

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Speaker 2: like a two hour flight.

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Speaker 1: So all right, So it's it's far. It's far. It's

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Speaker 1: like it's like Melbourne to Brisbane far.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, pie country living really but Kraft is a city,

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Speaker 2: so it's yeah, the mix of the country and the

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Speaker 2: and the city life.

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Speaker 1: How many? How many? How many people? This is not

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Speaker 1: really our topic, but fuck it, it doesn't matter. How

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Speaker 1: many people live in Karatha, give or tape.

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Speaker 2: She tested me today. I'm guessing like twenty thousand. But

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Speaker 2: that's honestly just off the top of my head. I'm

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Speaker 2: not I'm not familiar with the stat and.

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Speaker 1: It's primarily a this is it not your field of expertise,

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Speaker 1: but it's primarily a mining town, right it is?

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Speaker 2: Well, the family's here, right, Yeah, either way. Yeah, for

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Speaker 2: one of the big mining companies though.

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Speaker 1: And is it?

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 1: Sorry? Everyone, I'm just interested in this. Is it? Like,

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Speaker 1: what's the typical temperature?

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 1: It's hot all year?

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Speaker 2: Right? It is so hot? Oh yeah, yeah, you'd have

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Speaker 2: like a good maybe like month of winter or two.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it's like pretty hot all year. And it's

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Speaker 2: humid as well. So I think we're in the early

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Speaker 2: forties today, so it's yeah, so long. Wow.

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Speaker 1: And what's like a winter like a cold winterday is

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Speaker 1: probably like twenty two or something.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, it goes really cold, like yeah, for a

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Speaker 2: month or two. But yeah, generally speaking, even our winters

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Speaker 2: stone Yeah, it kind of feels a bit like springs.

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Speaker 2: So yeah.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Now just tell my audience who haven't met you yet,

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Speaker 1: just give them a quick snapshot of the doctor Sam

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Speaker 1: Casey kind of vibe as in your career, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm a pissys looking club. I mean that, I mean

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Speaker 1: your career, what you do, the work that you do

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Speaker 1: to give them context before we step off.

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Speaker 2: Yeap. So I'm a therapist. I trained as a child

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Speaker 2: therapist and then moved on to working more with parents

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Speaker 2: and professionals, so teaching them about play therapies. I'm also

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Speaker 2: interested plate therapists as well. And yeah, I created a

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Speaker 2: play prescription which is trying to take the power of

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Speaker 2: therapytic play outside the therapy room. So really just teaching

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Speaker 2: practical tools to be able to clean in on that.

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Speaker 1: And how many people like even have an awareness Like

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Speaker 1: like when I heard about play therapy as in like

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Speaker 1: a almost like a clinical thing that you can do

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Speaker 1: to create mental health outcomes and address mental health issues

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Speaker 1: among behavioral issues, I didn't mean. I'm literally doing a

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Speaker 1: PhD in psychology and I'd never heard of it. So

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Speaker 1: it is there's not that much awareness around it.

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Speaker 2: There isn't, to be honest, Like in America it's quite big,

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Speaker 2: but in Australia it's still really new. And when I

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Speaker 2: first came across it, I mean I was fifteen, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was really unheard off here in Australia and there's

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Speaker 2: still like you said that, there's just not enough awareness

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Speaker 2: around it. But you know, from a I guess the

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Speaker 2: developmental point of view, it makes complete sense. You know,

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Speaker 2: kids don't use words to express how they feel they play,

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Speaker 2: So I am, you know, really passionate about creating more

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Speaker 2: awareness around that therapeutic value of play and just the

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Speaker 2: different ways that we can use that obviously, which is very,

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Speaker 2: you know, very different to how people see therapy for kids.

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Speaker 1: How do we know? I mean, I know there's no

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Speaker 1: probably absolute answer to this, but yeah, like kids, don't

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Speaker 1: you know, if kids are feeling a certain way, they're

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Speaker 1: not gone. You know what, Mum look, or you know what, teacher,

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Speaker 1: or you know what Dad look. I'm really struggling emotionally today.

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Speaker 1: I'm just feeling a little bit. I ain't got some

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Speaker 1: low level anings diety. I'm worried about a few things.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not sure about Kinder. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: heading off to Kinder and John I looked at me

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Speaker 1: and poked my sandwich yesterday, you know, I mean they

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Speaker 1: don't do that, right of course, So how do we

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Speaker 1: know that we're interpreting their behavior? Because their behavior I

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Speaker 1: mean other than play, but the way that they behave

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Speaker 1: and act is a pretty good insight into at least

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Speaker 1: how they're feeling. How do we become better at reading that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's really difficult, right because Yeah, in a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways, right, I mean, behavior is communications. A

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Speaker 2: lot of the ways you can see when a child

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Speaker 2: is acting out there, struggling with something or yeah, behaviorally,

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Speaker 2: you know, if they're having a bit of a meltdown

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Speaker 2: or a chantrum or anything. You know that there is

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Speaker 2: something underneath it. But like you said, it's also having

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Speaker 2: to decode it because how it comes out isn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: how it is. So for example, a child seeking connection

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Speaker 2: can do so and really, you know, kind of the

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Speaker 2: opposite ways. They could be pushing people away. They could

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Speaker 2: be you know, the behavior kind of issues, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of parents will be like, well, no, they don't

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Speaker 2: really want my connection, just pushing me away. And I

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Speaker 2: offered that and they said, no, go away, I don't

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Speaker 2: like you. But for a lot of kids, they just

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Speaker 2: you know, in those moments, they don't feel likable, and

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Speaker 2: so they do push people away to kind of almost

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Speaker 2: get that connection in any attention is good attention in

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Speaker 2: a child's mind when they're struggling with that. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it is really difficult to decode it. I think when

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Speaker 2: parents are struggling to decode their own emotions, and I

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Speaker 2: think it's really trying to understand that behind every behavior

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Speaker 2: there's an unmet need and a lot of the time's

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Speaker 2: behavior is really a stress response for a child. So

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Speaker 2: really understanding what actually stresses out a child and what

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Speaker 2: really depletes their carp and actually what fills up their cup.

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Speaker 2: And I think gaining more understanding of that really comes

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Speaker 2: down to actually connecting with ourselves and understanding our own needs,

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Speaker 2: unmet needs behind our behavior and our inner child kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff as well.

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Speaker 1: Wow wow, So do we project our own shit onto

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Speaker 1: our kids? Well? I mean, of course we do. That's

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Speaker 1: a dumb question. But it's like we like where always

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Speaker 1: So for example, I don't have kids, but let's pretend

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Speaker 1: I've got a kid. So I always look at everything

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Speaker 1: through the Craig window, because that's, you know, the Craig

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Speaker 1: filter is the world that I have, you know, and

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Speaker 1: you look through, you know, and all your education and

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Speaker 1: information and awareness and knowledge, you're still looking through the

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Speaker 1: sam lens, right, And so which can be I guess

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Speaker 1: a positive and a negative? But you know, I think

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Speaker 1: there are times when there's probably a question coming stand

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Speaker 1: by who the fuck knows? It's me? But all right,

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Speaker 1: here's what I want to say. This is what I've

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Speaker 1: seen a fair bit of because over the years, as

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Speaker 1: you may or may not know, I had multiple personal

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Speaker 1: training centers. So we used to work with I would

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Speaker 1: start working with a mum, and then five or ten

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Speaker 1: years later, I'm working with the daughter, and then maybe

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Speaker 1: another ten years later, I'm working with a granddaughter. I

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Speaker 1: would work with multiple generations, and sometimes I need to

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Speaker 1: be careful how I word this. But I've seen issues

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Speaker 1: handed down, you know, and liviting beliefs and like even

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Speaker 1: to the point with some things like with eating issues

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Speaker 1: and eating disorders that almost well didn't almost they become

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Speaker 1: intergenerational because one of the parents just handed down their

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Speaker 1: own body dysmorphia stuff or eating issues stuff. It got

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Speaker 1: obviously unintentionally but inadvertently past a lung.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is a really tricky bit, right because

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of parents then get really fearful

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Speaker 2: of this, and then they try and be perfect around

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Speaker 2: it or try and hide it, and that in itself

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Speaker 2: becomes an issue. So, for example, if a parent's got anxiety, right,

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Speaker 2: and they start to see some kind of anxious tendencies

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Speaker 2: with their child because they see that as a reflection

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Speaker 2: of them, like, oh my gosh, I'm passing it down.

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Speaker 2: I know I struggle with this, and my child's struggling

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Speaker 2: with that, what they're going to do is they're going

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Speaker 2: to again ignore it. They're going to try and act

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Speaker 2: like it's not there. They're going to try and band

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Speaker 2: aid fix it because they see a child's anxiety as

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Speaker 2: a failure on their part, and so they'll continue to

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Speaker 2: kind of mask their own in order to you know,

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Speaker 2: project I mean, they'll project it on their child as

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Speaker 2: well so that everyone's okay. And what I say is

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Speaker 2: that there's obviously biological stuff that comes into this two

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Speaker 2: nature essusn't iture. There's always going to be different elements.

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Speaker 2: But when we try and put a mask on and

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Speaker 2: hide the fact that we're struggling with something, kids actually

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Speaker 2: struggle more because they also feel that, and then they

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Speaker 2: don't really know how to put words to it. I

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Speaker 2: think the best thing in those circumstance is seeing it

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Speaker 2: as a bit of a superpower and going actually, I

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Speaker 2: struggle with anxiety, and if my child struggles with anxiety,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to have that empathy. But also I actually

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Speaker 2: need to really roll model that my anxiety is really

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Speaker 2: my responsibility and I'm going to get to know myself

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Speaker 2: and my triggers. And so then you're role modeling that

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Speaker 2: to your child. You're not trying to fix it for them.

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Speaker 2: You're not trying to act like they can't be anxious

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Speaker 2: or express how they feel because you keep seeing it

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Speaker 2: as a reflection if you. But rather it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is something I struggle with. They're going to potentially

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Speaker 2: be struggling with this. But yeah, how can I kind

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Speaker 2: of role model how we manage in a really healthy way.

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Speaker 2: And that's really hard because ye parents see their children

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Speaker 2: as reflections of themselves.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to a parent the other day and

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Speaker 1: they said to me, my kid is a nightmare in

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Speaker 1: kinder Right. The tea not a nightmare, like a cute kid,

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Speaker 1: but mayhem like chaos. Right. And the teacher, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what do you call them the teacher? Do you

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Speaker 1: call them teacher in kinder? I guess so can't it's

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Speaker 1: a little boy. Can't get him to sit still. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, so he has like sitting still issues when

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Speaker 1: everyone's sitting still, he's like a maniac. And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: how old is he? And she goes three. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: he's a three year old boy. I mean, what do

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Speaker 1: you think he's three? It's like sit down, Nah, fuck off?

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Speaker 1: I'm not sitting down. Look at that thing over there,

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Speaker 1: or look at that dinosaur on the wall, or I'm

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Speaker 1: going to climb up. I mean, do we have do

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Speaker 1: we have silly expectations of like is it some three

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Speaker 1: year olds will sit there with their legs and arms

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Speaker 1: crossed and have a little nap and do a little

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Speaker 1: quiet time and close their eyes, and I'm sure they'll

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Speaker 1: be you know, dream students. But we can't expect the

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Speaker 1: same thing from different children, can we exactly?

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Speaker 2: And that's what the really hard been is it's almost

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Speaker 2: like the kids that are creative and they're just really curious,

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Speaker 2: they're the ones that kind of get shut down or

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Speaker 2: labeled as the naughty kid at school. It's just and

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Speaker 2: I think for parents to really separate that and going

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Speaker 2: this environment it's just really not bringing out the best

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Speaker 2: of my child or this environment is it really suited

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Speaker 2: to my child, and so being able to work around

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Speaker 2: that rather than see that as a reflection of their

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Speaker 2: child's limitations or you know, getting too caught up in

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Speaker 2: that because you're right, like a three year old's is

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Speaker 2: not going to want to sit down. I mean, like

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Speaker 2: I don't want to sit down for a song. And

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Speaker 2: they make kids sit down in class. It's just it's

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Speaker 2: a bit unrealistic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I feel like that the you know, that's

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Speaker 1: just them, like there's no intention to be a bad kid.

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Speaker 1: I was just looking up. There's there's a guy that

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Speaker 1: I follow. His name's Tim Kennedy, and that's what it's called.

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Speaker 1: It's Apage. He created these schools in the States. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure there's other schools like them. It's called Apage Strong

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Speaker 1: and they created this school like it's a regular school.

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Speaker 1: Kids do maths and all the stuff that they do,

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Speaker 1: but it's a very different style of learning. Like they

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Speaker 1: do a lot of outdoor stuff. And the schools are

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Speaker 1: set up on these properties, like with animals and trees

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Speaker 1: and nature, and so they do very little traditional sitting

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Speaker 1: on a sitting at a desk, you know, like it's

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Speaker 1: all And I mean, I'm sure for some people that

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Speaker 1: that model would be a nightmare. But if I reckon,

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Speaker 1: I would have actually been quite a good student if

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Speaker 1: I grew up in that, because for me, the tradition,

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Speaker 1: the traditional model for me. And you know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying school was the problem. I was equally the problem.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry about that. But I reckon if I had

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Speaker 1: been in a different model and a different environment with

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Speaker 1: a different style of teaching, where you know, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: forced to sit for six or eight hours a day

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Speaker 1: at a desk, you know, and behave a certain way

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Speaker 1: and focus on shit that didn't interest me. Yeah maybe,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I wasn't a terrible student, but

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Speaker 1: I definitely wasn't a good student, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that there are so many different

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Speaker 2: ways that parents can foster this, even if they're not,

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Speaker 2: you know, regardless of what decision they make about what

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Speaker 2: school their child goes to. I think when you have

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Speaker 2: that mindset, you can really help a child put the

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Speaker 2: grades into perspective, but you can also put that environment

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Speaker 2: into perspective where you're like, okay, we go to school,

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Speaker 2: but then outside that, what are you interested in? Like,

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Speaker 2: let's point in on this, let's find different ways to

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Speaker 2: actually support their way of learning and their interests and

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Speaker 2: their curiosity. So I think that you know, when we

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Speaker 2: do that for our sales, right, we get to know

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Speaker 2: our own brain and we can support children to do

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Speaker 2: the same.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, is perfection is I mean, I'm not a parent,

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Speaker 1: you're a parent, But is there pressure. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's real pressure or perceived pressure. If you're a parent,

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Speaker 1: the other parents judge, You're like, oh, look at it,

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Speaker 1: look at it. And that must be worse for you

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Speaker 1: because you're a fucking doctor of this, Like this is

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Speaker 1: You're meant to be the high water mark. It's like

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Speaker 1: when I go out, When I go out and I'm

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Speaker 1: at a restaurant and somebody that knows who I am,

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Speaker 1: Not that I'm anyone, but so many people are fascinated with, Oh,

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Speaker 1: what's Craig Harper eating? Right? Yeah, well you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, people are really interested in what I eat.

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Speaker 1: Some people send me messages and go, can you tell

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Speaker 1: me what you eat in a typical day. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, that is definitely not exciting. But I imagine

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Speaker 1: for you you would be being observed your parenting style

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Speaker 1: and your skills and your approach more than.

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Speaker 2: The average definitely. And I think in general though, parents

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Speaker 2: always judge on the parents, but you're right, and almost

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Speaker 2: like they kind of see that as not the standard.

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Speaker 2: But you know, everything gets picked apart. And I was

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Speaker 2: really conscious of that because I actually, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: came to parenting with that mindset of like I am

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Speaker 2: so prepared, like I've read all the things, I know

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Speaker 2: exactly how I want a parent, like this is awesome.

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Speaker 2: And it was early until I became a parent that

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I don't want to be like this.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to feel like my child needs to

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Speaker 2: be perfect so that I feel like a perfect parent,

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Speaker 2: Like it's actually not working out for either one of us.

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Speaker 2: And that really set me in my own personal, you know,

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Speaker 2: development kind of journey because I realized actually a lot

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Speaker 2: of what is preached as perfect parenting really doesn't say

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Speaker 2: as a child or the parent, And I think being

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Speaker 2: able to mute out that noise is really difficult. But

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Speaker 2: often when you do what's right for you and your child,

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Speaker 2: everyone's got something to say. And I do say this

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Speaker 2: to parents. Often there is no parenting decision that is

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Speaker 2: free of scrutiny. Everyone's going to be like you're too soft,

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Speaker 2: you're too hard, you're too strict, you're not strict enough.

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Speaker 2: Like there's always going to be those judgments out there,

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Speaker 2: and so how do you start trusting your own intuition

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Speaker 2: or your own judgment around those things that you are

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Speaker 2: figuring it out? I mean you've never lived this life before.

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Speaker 2: I neither has your child. And so I think when

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Speaker 2: I've taken that approach of like that experimentation, I'm still

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Speaker 2: learning about my children as they're learning about themselves, as

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Speaker 2: I'm learning about myself. Like it takes the pressure of

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Speaker 2: them to be kids, and also for me, like it's

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Speaker 2: way more enjoyable to live life without that, you know,

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Speaker 2: pressure to be perfect. But definitely, I definitely have felt

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Speaker 2: those situations constantly in my parenting. Genie and I have

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Speaker 2: to actively have strategies to actually block out and mute

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Speaker 2: out that the noise and the judgment.

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Speaker 1: What's something Sam that as a mum, right as a

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Speaker 1: parent that you got wrong that you went, oh, you

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Speaker 1: maybe did a one ad on your thinking or your

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Speaker 1: operating system.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that was that. The behavioral Yeah, the

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Speaker 2: behavioral stuff, the strategies. I thought a well behaved child

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Speaker 2: was the standard, and I thought I had to be

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Speaker 2: perfect and always have the perfect responses. And I've completely

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Speaker 2: done one eighty of that because, to be honest, a

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Speaker 2: child that looked well behaved often is a child that's

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Speaker 2: suppressing stuff. Often is a child that feels like they

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Speaker 2: need to be good. So that their parents can feel okay,

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Speaker 2: often is a child that feels like they need to

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Speaker 2: be mature beyond their years, because again, a parent seeds

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Speaker 2: their child's reflections of them. So I completely did a

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Speaker 2: one eighty with that and going, you know, that's not

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Speaker 2: a bed and I want my child to bear like

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Speaker 2: they're their own person and they're on their own journey.

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Speaker 2: And I'm also on my own journey. So I think

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Speaker 2: I was trying to do everything righted it's almost like

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Speaker 2: that good kill condition and coming out and yeah, I

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Speaker 2: completely did it one eighty and going, Actually, I want

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Speaker 2: to be the opposite. I want children to know that

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Speaker 2: I'm still trying to figure this out and I'm not perfect,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not trying to be perfect. I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: be true to myself and I'm sure learning about myself,

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Speaker 2: and I want them to have the freedom to do

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Speaker 2: that too. So that's really what prompted me in going

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Speaker 2: on my own journey, like I can't. I can't put

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Speaker 2: all my hopes and dreams onto them. I have to

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Speaker 2: live my own life and that takes a lot of

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Speaker 2: contention to be like, Okay, that's something I want to do,

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Speaker 2: not necessarily maybe what they want to do and that's okay.

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Speaker 2: I can go with my own goals and they can

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Speaker 2: have their own.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that's really interesting. That's really interesting because you

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Speaker 1: would have to be I think, I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: certain careers and professions and directions that I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of parents would like their kid to take. You know,

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Speaker 1: like nobody's going to be mad when the kid becomes

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Speaker 1: a doctor or very few or what. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that's the you know, or they like you.

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Speaker 2: They people see that as a standard, right.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm just saying, you know, but when the

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Speaker 1: kid come home and goes, you know, like for example,

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Speaker 1: and this so a mentor and coach a young kid

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Speaker 1: who's his goal is to be the best surfer in

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Speaker 1: the world. His name's Ozzie triggwell right, shout out to

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Speaker 1: oz And he's got a great mom and dad. But

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Speaker 1: I'm not thinking too many mum and dads who go

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Speaker 1: their kid goes when he's fifteen and they're gone. So

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Speaker 1: what are you thinking about career? He goes, I want

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Speaker 1: to be a professional surfer like my mum and dad

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Speaker 1: would have gone. No next, you know, to be able

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Speaker 1: to be well, what if your kids dream is your

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Speaker 1: fucking nightmare. I mean that's and you've still got to

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Speaker 1: be or you think and you think you're smarter than them,

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Speaker 1: and you think, you know, you've got the wisdom. They

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Speaker 1: don't have the wisdom. And they're like, yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: just want to go to I want to go to

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Speaker 1: Nider or whatever it's called, or Nada or Wada, whatever

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Speaker 1: it's called. And I want to be and I want

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Speaker 1: to in an oscar one day. I want to act

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Speaker 1: in and they like, yeah, statistically fucking no chance. But

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Speaker 1: I mean those things, I would imagine that's challenging when

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Speaker 1: your kid wants something that you don't think is a

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Speaker 1: good idea.

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Speaker 2: Oh and that's really like the difficult bit, right because

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Speaker 2: of course you know that's the instinct right of trying

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Speaker 2: to protect your child from harm or go no, like

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Speaker 2: this is you don't see this bit and trying to

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Speaker 2: give all that advice. But I feel like from living

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Speaker 2: my own life in such a well I would say

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Speaker 2: courageous way, like really having to do things differently to

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Speaker 2: what I thought I would do, I realized the power

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Speaker 2: of experience. No matter how much someone told me something,

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Speaker 2: I actually have to go through my own experiences and

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Speaker 2: figure it out for myself. And so I see that

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Speaker 2: as that goal. Like, for example, when I wanted to

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Speaker 2: leave school at fifteen, you know my parents, I mean

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Speaker 2: they said yes to that, and they signed off on it.

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Speaker 2: But if I did if they said no, I would

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Speaker 2: have been resentful. I would have pepsley, probably continued to

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Speaker 2: do about it school. I would have acted out all

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Speaker 2: of that stuff. But because they said yes, I was

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Speaker 2: able to actually try out hairdressing, which I realized wasn't

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Speaker 2: my thing, and then I was able to kind of

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Speaker 2: figure out a way right where this led me to,

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Speaker 2: you know, my really fulfilling career in play therapy. So

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Speaker 2: I realized that no one could have told me that

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Speaker 2: or tried to steam me away from that. I really

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Speaker 2: wanted to go through my own experiences. And so I

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Speaker 2: think when I have, you know, my children reached out stage,

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Speaker 2: it's going to have to be this balance of being

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Speaker 2: really authentic and honest about maybe how I feel about it,

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Speaker 2: but then also going ultimately this is your life, like Noah,

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Speaker 2: like You're going to have to make these decisions and

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Speaker 2: not be there to say I told you so, but

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Speaker 2: rather help them navigate that. When inevitably things don't really

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Speaker 2: work out how you know we've planned out. But it's

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Speaker 2: that that's part of human nature.

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Speaker 1: Right, I reckon you are a unicorn, But I love

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Speaker 1: I love that, Like how many kids went to their

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Speaker 1: mum and dad or how many girls, well boys, I

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Speaker 1: guess boys can go to be hairdressers, but how many

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Speaker 1: kids at fifteen when I want to leave school and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go be a hairdresser and the mum

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Speaker 1: and dad go okay, And then you do that and

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Speaker 1: then eventually you end up being a PhD graduate and

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Speaker 1: your doctor Sam Casey, and you're talking to on a

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Speaker 1: podcast to people all over the world and you're now

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Speaker 1: an expert in if it's like, oh, she just ended

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Speaker 1: up in the right place anyway, And if, like you said,

432
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: if mom and dad had to or try to suppress that,

433
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 1: it might have you might not have ended up where

434
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:42,679
Speaker 1: you ended up. It would have been a terrible outcome, but.

435
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 2: With good intentions. And that's why I kind of realized

436
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 2: at school, right, it's all the external reinforcement like get

437
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 2: the grades, or teachers telling you should be doing this

438
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 2: and this is what's wrong with you, and this is

439
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: what and It's almost like I couldn't hear my own voice,

440
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 2: and when I was left to, I would say, my

441
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 2: own device is of having to figure it out. That's

442
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: where that internal reinforcement came in, and I was able

443
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,199
Speaker 2: to develop that self discipline because there was no one

444
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 2: else telling me I had to do this right. No

445
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 2: one else was telling me this is signing STUW and

446
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 2: you're going to like I had to figure this out

447
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: for myself. So I feel like we're so scared to

448
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 2: kind of let the penny drop or to let things

449
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 2: fall into place by natural fact, children will never develop

450
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 2: their own resources and their own strengths and their own

451
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 2: internal compass if we don't do that. So it is

452
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,479
Speaker 2: this really tricky balance, right, And a lot of our

453
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 2: fears and a lot of our projections are coming out

454
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 2: because all we see from our own conditioning, our own

455
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 2: childhood conditioning, is what could go wrong. We really don't

456
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 2: see what could go right, and that's the problem. We're

457
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 2: waiting for things to go wrong and be like I

458
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 2: told you, so, I saw this kind of thing. I

459
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: knew this was going to happen, and then the child

460
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 2: starts to feel really crap about themselves because they didn't

461
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 2: see that rather than going this is actually just part

462
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 2: of the process. Cool, that didn't work, all right, what

463
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 2: are we going to do now? Like, let's keep going?

464
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 2: And so the issue never really is sometimes that first decision.

465
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 2: It's the fact that children will a decision against their

466
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 2: parents maybe you know, decision or whatever they think, and

467
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 2: then it won't go right, and then the parents are like, see,

468
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: I told you now, I should be the one making decisions,

469
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 2: and this is what then kind of chips them away.

470
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 2: So I feel like the more that we can normalize

471
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 2: this journey of life of just figuring it out, the

472
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 2: more kids will be able to get back on track quicker.

473
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a real interesting what's the word balancing act?

474
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: I think in terms of how much do we let

475
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: our kids get their hands dirty? I guess there's a

476
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: lot of variables. What age, you know, are they four,

477
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: are they fourteen? It's different how much uncertainty do we

478
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: let them be in the middle of discomfort? Like when

479
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: do we intervene? When do we stand back? Because you know,

480
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: all of us, nobody wants weak kids. Nobody wants kids

481
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: who can't cope, Nobody wants kids who can't deal with

482
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: life of course, of course, so in an ideal world,

483
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: we'd go, wou do you want your kids to be

484
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: mentally and emotionally sound and resilient and able to deal

485
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 1: with hard stuff and the messiness and unfairness of life

486
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: because it's coming right And then they most people would go, yeah,

487
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: I want them to be resilient and capable. But then

488
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: in order to build resilience and capability and adaptability and

489
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: competence and confidence, we can't put them in fucking cotton

490
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: wool for twenty years.

491
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 2: That's the hardest fit, right, And also what is our

492
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 2: definition of resilience? Because a lot of the time as well,

493
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,959
Speaker 2: you know, we could see resiliences as showing up and

494
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 2: continue to do the thing. But the moment that said

495
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 2: the child is struggling with something, parents like, see, you're

496
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: not resilient, like so I think it's also us getting

497
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 2: in check with Okay, how resilient are we when our

498
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 2: child doesn't do what we want or isn't showing the

499
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 2: attributes that we like in the traits that we like? Like,

500
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: how do we manage that? And I think the more

501
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: that we can see ourselves as we're actually really fully

502
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 2: only responsible for our steps. I mean, of course we're

503
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 2: responsible for our child, but in that moment, we don't

504
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 2: control their responses. And so for us to really get

505
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 2: clear and are we doing great things with our life,

506
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 2: so we, you know, are being able to practice that resilience.

507
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: And I think the more that we realize again we

508
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 2: can internally kind of like cultivate this, the more I

509
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 2: think it will give them the examples to be able

510
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 2: to do that for themselves.

511
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: What do you think are the biggest fears that parents

512
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: have about all their kids? Other than physical safety, let's

513
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: take that off the table, but like, what are the

514
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: things that parents really worry about about their children? Like,

515
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: I don't know the I don't even have a clue

516
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: to the answer to this.

517
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 2: Trauma. I would say that they're going to mess up

518
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 2: their child, that they're going to traumatize their child, that

519
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: they're going to repeat generational patterns.

520
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: Right, So you think that Okay, So if I was

521
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: a nightmare with something, or I had trauma, or I

522
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: had certain issues that I'm going to say, how hand

523
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: that down to my kid or kids?

524
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: I think that could well. I feel like that's one

525
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: of the biggest fears that parents have, that anything they

526
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 2: do is going to mess up their child or that

527
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 2: they're going to traumatize their child, and so they kind

528
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: of overthink everything right and try and be perfect because

529
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 2: they don't want to harm their child emotionally.

530
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: Can I ask you have a daughter?

531
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: Right? Yes?

532
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: How old is she? Now?

533
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 2: She's seven?

534
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: So this is very difficult, but can you compare seven

535
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: year old you to seven year old her? Like what's

536
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: similar and what's totally dissimilar? Like can you see anything?

537
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny actually because my dad, you know, comments

538
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: on that. He was like, before the world got to you,

539
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 2: you were exactly like her. So my daughter's very I

540
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: would say, strong will. She knows what she wants. She

541
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 2: you know, definitely kind of goes to the own beat

542
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 2: of her own drums. Like she is the opposite I

543
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: guess for people pleaser, right, she says, but she's on

544
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: her mind. She says what she thinks. And when I

545
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 2: look back at how I was at seven, it was

546
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 2: definitely a part of me where I was like that,

547
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 2: but I wasn't like that as often. I very much

548
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: had that good girl conditioning where my parents were out

549
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 2: at that time. You know, they were in that too,

550
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 2: you know, my dad was trying to be the perfect dad,

551
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: so you know, I was again being that perfect child.

552
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 2: So yeah, there's definitely similarities if I feel like that

553
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: that power that you know, that her knowing who she

554
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 2: is and what she wants and not afraid to say it,

555
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: and that perseverance and the determination. But the difference is

556
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 2: is the parenting too, because I didn't have you know,

557
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: the Yeah, I guse my parents weren't really aware of

558
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: that at that time, right, Oh, this is something we

559
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 2: want to foster, and it was about back then.

560
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: Either I feel sometimes I was talking to someone I

561
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 1: won't say his name, but a guess that was on

562
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: the show. Yeah, let's just say in the last year, right,

563
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: a guy and we're talking off air, and he was

564
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: telling me about his childhood and he was raised by

565
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 1: i'll just say a parent. The other parent was out

566
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: of the picture quite early, and the one parent that

567
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: raised him was quite mentally unwell, and so by the

568
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: time he was twelve, it was like he was the parent, right,

569
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: he was protective of his parent, but he was he

570
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: was like the man of the house and you know,

571
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: doing everything from shopping and washing and dishes to getting

572
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: his parent their medication and some days the parent would

573
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: be flying and amazing, and then they wouldn't get out

574
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: of bed for three days. And so like a very

575
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: difficult situation, a genuinely difficult situation. But like, tell me

576
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: about that, Tell me about kids who shouldn't have to

577
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: but I mean, situationally, it seems like they have to

578
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: be older than their years. Sometimes.

579
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so this is you know, there's always dynamics

580
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: in every family, and sometimes, like you said, you know,

581
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: they could be a parent with the chronic illness, and

582
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: so children are having to take on a lot more

583
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: of a load than they normally would. And I think

584
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: what's really more common and probably harder to see is

585
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 2: taking on the emotional load more than they should around

586
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 2: parents that you know, again see their children's reflection of them,

587
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: or really rely on their children emotionally because they feel

588
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: like they're giving everything and they don't really have other

589
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: sources to get that back. So for example, they a

590
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: child picks up on when their parents falls apart, when

591
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 2: they when the child has a bad day or they're struggling,

592
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: or they're anxious. And so children then learn to be like, Okay,

593
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 2: well I'll be good and I'll be easy and I

594
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: will be you know, still with the flow and I'm okay,

595
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: I'm okay because they want you to be okay. And

596
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: so that I feel like is actually more common and

597
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: happens a lot more undetected because you know, parents praise

598
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: that my child's so easy going, like literally like they're

599
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: so chill and it's great, Like they're so mature, and

600
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: they expect children at a young age to not be

601
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 2: you know, immature, and to be able to follow instructions

602
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: and to do all the things and to have really

603
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: appropriate emotional responses to things, and they don't really realize

604
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: that children, I mean, their brains are still forming. But

605
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 2: children are very good at doing what they need to

606
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: do to survive. And when I say to survive, it's

607
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: to get the love and the praise and the exceptions

608
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 2: that they need. And so a lot of the time

609
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 2: children will play that role of being responsible and mature

610
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 2: and all of that in order to get that praise

611
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: and that love and exceptions for their parents. But once

612
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: it ends up happening is that they've actually missed some

613
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 2: really crucial developmental stages being a child right and having

614
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,719
Speaker 2: that load, and that does impact them.

615
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, do you think that I think in the

616
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: other day that kids and I could be wrong on this,

617
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: but I feel like kids are more scared now than

618
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: when I was a kid. Like there's a lot more

619
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 1: fear about a million things now. Admitted I grew up

620
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: in the country. Life was pretty simple. Life was pretty easy.

621
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: It's like it wasn't a complicated existence. There are so

622
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: many move It seems like there are so many moving

623
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: parts in a ten year old's life now. Like in mind,

624
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: it was like, hey, is there food good? I love food.

625
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: Let's eat that in school and let's kick a footy

626
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: and let's ride my bike. Yeah, and let's be home

627
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: by dark the end. Right, It seemed like and maybe

628
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: this is an old fuck with reflecting, but it seemed

629
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: like a really a much simpler time. And it seems

630
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: like to me and I could be wrong, but there

631
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: was just a lot less things to worry about. Do

632
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: you think kids are more fifful now than they were

633
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: a generation or two go or it's just me.

634
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: But so when you think about it too, right, a

635
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 2: lot of like you know, a lot of parents and

636
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: stain how the villageous support like they did a few

637
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: generations back. Everything feels like there it's on their shoulders,

638
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: and so they're trying to be all the all the

639
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: things all the time, right to their children. So I

640
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: think you know that anxiety is all around. It's the parents,

641
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: the kids. It's the pressure as well that anything that

642
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: they do can come back on them and it's their fault.

643
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, wow, And just with your own stuff.

644
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: Like you know, so you you left school early, you

645
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: went on this journey, you ended up in academia. Do

646
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: you do you still like how do you stay how

647
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: do you stay up front of what's happening in the space,

648
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: Like you know, you did your degree, you got your doctorate,

649
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: you've got your PhD. Are you still researching? Are you

650
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: still studying? I don't mean formally, but you must. You

651
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: must need to kind of keep up with what is

652
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 1: happening in the space so you can do exactly what

653
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: you're doing right now rightly.

654
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,959
Speaker 2: And I yeah, I'm always going to be like that

655
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: because I'm always so curious. But I think for me

656
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: what the key is is most general articles I read

657
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: I do not understand, like first go, I just think

658
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: it's so worthy and so in like a different language.

659
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 2: And so what I try and do is do I

660
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: how would I simplify this, How would I explain this

661
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: in like one sentence, or how would I explain this

662
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: in such an easier way? And so for me, I

663
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 2: really challenge you rights to continue to be up to

664
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: date with research, but also to be like, how can

665
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: this info get out? Because a lot of the time,

666
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: right university is are pumping out research, but it never

667
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: really you know, everything kind of looks really good on paper,

668
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: but I feel like we kind of missed that gap

669
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: between research and the practical application of it. And that's

670
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 2: what I really try and do with paprescription. It's like,

671
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 2: how do we take research and actually put it into

672
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: practice and make this really easy to access because yeah,

673
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: a lot of the time we just don't have that

674
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: in the in the middle there one.

675
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: Hundred percent agree. It's like with my research, and I mean,

676
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: we need research, we need science course And I always

677
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: say to people like my my research is like studying

678
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: a drop of water for five years in an ocean

679
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: of human behavior, Right, it's such a specific thing. But

680
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: the chasm between theoretical human behavior and psychology and understanding

681
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: certain whatever habits, behaviors, traits, actions, and then life at

682
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: the coal face with humans. You know, my job has

683
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: been for decades working with humans one on one in

684
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: a three D kind of space, not a virtual space

685
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: where you're looking at you're looking at someone's face and

686
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: body and body language and movement and biomechanics, and you're

687
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: feeling their emotions in their mind and you're it's like,

688
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't always cross over like the research

689
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 1: and the outcomes in inverted commas, and the alleged science

690
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: doesn't or isn't always supported in the real world, especially

691
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: with psychology.

692
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: Oh definitely. And I see this all the time, to

693
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 2: be honest, when I work with schools and they've got

694
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 2: these perfect plans, behavior management plans in place, and it's

695
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 2: all research based and based on some training that they did,

696
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: but so unpractical and it doesn't often really survive first

697
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 2: contact with the child. And so I just don't think

698
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 2: that there is enough processes and plates to then go

699
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 2: we need to reflect on this and what is not working.

700
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: Can we actually be honest about how this is not

701
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: translating into practice and what our own barriers are around that,

702
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 2: and then how do we readjust to reassess and keep

703
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 2: tweaking it to be able to continue right, to make

704
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: propriss on that track. And I feel like it's missing

705
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 2: a lot because we kind of think, oh, no, this

706
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: is research based, and you know, this has got all

707
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 2: the things that should and then it should work, but

708
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: it doesn't.

709
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw this thing the other day that somebody said,

710
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: somebody was on banging on about Oh they did this

711
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: research with it doesn't matter why it was about, but

712
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: it was about women and weight loss or women and

713
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: body composition, you know. I went, oh, that doesn't really

714
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: sound legitimate. And they were talking about this research, this research.

715
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: So I did a I'm like, where's the I want

716
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: to see the research. I want to see the paper.

717
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: I want to see the abstract. I want to see

718
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: the discussion. I want to see you know what they did, right,

719
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: there was fourteen people in the study. I'm like, this

720
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: is not science, this is not indicative. This is and

721
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: it went for eight weeks, eight weeks, fourteen people. I'm like,

722
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: this is ridiculous, you know, and then they're so then

723
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: they're taking this very small, very limited, very high risk

724
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: of bias. The highest risk, right, generally risk of bias

725
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: is even anything under one hundred is like, a's no

726
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: good right, Well, it's not regarded right, So this is

727
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: fourteen people, and I'm like, oh, well, and then people

728
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: get on and go this research was done with women, no,

729
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: not concerned nevatively four million women at billion women in

730
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: the world, give all take, and you did something with

731
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: fourteen and then you're trying to generalize that two billions

732
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: of people. It's so fucking misleading and untrue and uh,

733
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, what's the word inappropriate? What's the word unethical? Yeah?

734
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 2: And how often does that happen? And I think then

735
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 2: we overrely on research without also then actually going is

736
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 2: this working for me? Like I feel like this we've

737
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 2: said mindful drawing, right, and I'm sure there's research around

738
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: the mindfulness stuff, and you know, when you're stressed, I've

739
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: never found that word for me, to be honest. If anything,

740
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 2: I will trip up the paper and throw it away

741
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: and go do some exercise. So I feel like we

742
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: also then when we catch onto things, but it's research base,

743
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: we don't actually look at our own kind of like

744
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: what's our own feedback kind of loop around this and

745
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: how do we see if it works for us? Because

746
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 2: a lot of the time you can find conflicting research

747
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 2: too you know, this is how you should parent, but

748
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: also this is how you can pare it. And so

749
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: when you get caught up on that, it's like, ultimately

750
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: you still have to make the decision. We can try

751
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: and understand what the research says about it, but we

752
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: need to figure out all works for us too.

753
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: Oh and also yeah, one hundred percent. But your body

754
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: is its own intelligence. Your brain, your nervous system, you're

755
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: around all the bio feedback, all of that, everything that

756
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: your body is telling you and your subconscious mind is

757
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: pretty fucking smart. And you know, it's like there's a

758
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: lot of data that we have access to constantly that

759
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: we do not really we don't pay attention to or

760
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: we don't understand it, you know. And I think it's

761
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: like when people talk to me about food or exercise

762
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: or sleeper that I go, what's your body telling you?

763
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: And they're like what, I go, what's your body saying?

764
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: And then I asked them and they're like, oh, I go. Like,

765
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 1: all the information or a lot of the information you need,

766
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: you already have. And it's not because you heard it

767
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: or read it. It's because your body's telling you that

768
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: you're dehydrated or you're under slept or you don't need

769
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: enough fiber, or you don't move enough, or you sit

770
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 1: too much, or you know that that kiphosis, that chaithhotic posture,

771
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: that you've got, that hunchy back, those rolling forward shoulders,

772
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: that those chronic headaches. It's like, yeah, there's lots of

773
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: signs that lots of stuff could be going on.

774
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 2: That was a perfect example about the dehydration. Because of that,

775
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 2: you can riddle the research around. We need to drink

776
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 2: water and stay hydrated, but if we don't understand or

777
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: in queues around, you know, when we're not, it's really hard.

778
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, did you we look like Passiona? You

779
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: probably need some water.

780
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

781
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sorry to wind you up, but we've got to go.

782
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: But tell people how they can connect with you, find you,

783
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: follow you and reach out.

784
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 2: Yep, I'm on Instagram's where I'm am most so Dr

785
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 2: Sam Casey or my website which is www dot dottor

786
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 2: samcc dot com.

787
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: You're the best and we'll see you in a month.

788
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

789
00:39:58,320 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 2: Good, no worry. Thanks great