WEBVTT - Why won’t politicians attack Pauline Hanson? 

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Thursday, June eleven, twenty twenty six. Taxpayers are facing

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<v Speaker 1>a multi million dollar compensation bill for foreign born criminals

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<v Speaker 1>who were held unlawnfully in indefinite immigration detention. That's after

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<v Speaker 1>a fresh High Court ruling that's slammed the Commonwealth's handling

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<v Speaker 1>of the so called NZYQ case. That's the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>story that sends frustrated voters fleeing to the arms of

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<v Speaker 1>One Nation, which, despite its simplistic policies and chaotic politics,

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<v Speaker 1>is now showing up in polls as Australia's most popular party,

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<v Speaker 1>fueled by discontent about migration and the economy and distrust

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<v Speaker 1>of the major parties. Today, The Australian's revealing a senior

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<v Speaker 1>Liberal figure saying the mainstream conservative parties should team up

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<v Speaker 1>with one Nation on strategy. Is that a good idea?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm about to ask our chief political correspondent, Greg Brown.

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<v Speaker 1>Stay with us. Greg Brown is The Australian's chief political

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<v Speaker 1>correspondent and I've asked him on the show to explain

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<v Speaker 1>the thorniest question of all in Australian politics right now?

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<v Speaker 1>What is really fueling the rise of One Nation polling

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<v Speaker 1>from somewhere around six percent at the time of the

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<v Speaker 1>last election to thirty one percent now going past all

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<v Speaker 1>the other political parties in terms of primary vote. Greg

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<v Speaker 1>what's going on?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, truly was our bombshell news poll to show

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<v Speaker 2>that One Nation is now the most popular political party

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<v Speaker 2>in Australia. Who would have thought even twelve months ago

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<v Speaker 2>that that was possible. I think clearly there's been growing

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<v Speaker 2>anxiety about politics in Australia for a while now the

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<v Speaker 2>Bondai terror attacks or One Nation's primary vote spike massively

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<v Speaker 2>after that, and I think the has seen more people

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<v Speaker 2>upset with Labor, and I think what's really worrying for

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<v Speaker 2>the Coalition is they're not willing to change their vote

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<v Speaker 2>from Labor to the Coalition. They're going from Labor to

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<v Speaker 2>One Nation.

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<v Speaker 1>The majority of voters believe politics is due for a shakeup. Gee,

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<v Speaker 1>they're in trouble. They're really in trouble, aren't They.

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<v Speaker 3>Were polling are over Labor and they're over the Coalition.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think unbelievably we've actually seen the coalition's primary

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<v Speaker 2>vote come down since the budget, so that should be

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<v Speaker 2>a sign of desperation for the Liberal Party and if

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<v Speaker 2>it's not for people that aren't deeply worried about that,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I'd say there's an element of delusion.

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<v Speaker 1>It's interesting, I think to look at what Barnaby Joyce

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<v Speaker 1>says about this. Barnaby is the former Nationals MP who

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<v Speaker 1>defected to One Nation in December, coincidentally about the same

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<v Speaker 1>time as their numbers started going up. But Barnaby Joyce

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<v Speaker 1>says that the Bondai terror attack and the return of

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<v Speaker 1>the ISIS brides from the Middle East are a big

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<v Speaker 1>part of this story fueling Australians' concerns about how the

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<v Speaker 1>major parties are handling things.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't believe in multiculturalism in my nation. We believe

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<v Speaker 2>in Australian culture.

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<v Speaker 1>The undertone there is that there's an anxiety about migration

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<v Speaker 1>in Australia that some voters feel that only paul In

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<v Speaker 1>Hanson can address. What do you think about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm of the view that it's all very relevant. I

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<v Speaker 2>think you've seen people on both sides deny the other.

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<v Speaker 2>Particularly we're seeing with the Labor Party and people from

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<v Speaker 2>the left, they're denying that migration is part of it.

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<v Speaker 2>They're saying it's all economic factors, and people when they're

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<v Speaker 2>angry they're not getting ahead. They look at migrants and

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<v Speaker 2>that's when they become angry. Where is if their own

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<v Speaker 2>lives are going well, they wouldn't be doing that. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that is absolutely a major factor. But I also

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<v Speaker 2>think there is an anxiety in the community that's been

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<v Speaker 2>bubbling for a long period of time, and now people

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<v Speaker 2>feel fed up that they feel like multiculturalism, rightly or wrongly,

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<v Speaker 2>they feel multiculturalism is not working for them. I personally

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<v Speaker 2>have sympathy for the Coalition going hard on migration and

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<v Speaker 2>things like welfare for non citizens, because you can't just

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<v Speaker 2>look at what's going on with the community anxiety and

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<v Speaker 2>just ignore it all. So I have sympathy for that.

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<v Speaker 2>But equally, I think the pathway forward for the Coalition

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<v Speaker 2>is economic credibility and real cut through, and that's what

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<v Speaker 2>we're really struggling to see at the moment.

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<v Speaker 1>Angus Taylor is really trying to make that connection and

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<v Speaker 1>identify himself with that connection. In terms of his budget

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<v Speaker 1>and reply speech, he explicitly connects did migration levels to

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<v Speaker 1>the uplift in housing supply basically saying, you know, you

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<v Speaker 1>can only bring in as many migrants as you have

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<v Speaker 1>homes for, and you can only do that if you're

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<v Speaker 1>ensuring that Australians themselves have the capacity to buy homes.

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<v Speaker 3>Mass migration is changing Australia. For the words, the number

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<v Speaker 3>of people coming in far exceeds the number of houses built. Consequently,

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<v Speaker 3>the great Australian dream of home ownership is vanishing for

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<v Speaker 3>old and new Australians alike.

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<v Speaker 1>So why isn't that working for him?

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<v Speaker 2>So I think there's a couple of elements to it.

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<v Speaker 2>Some people say that if the Coalition talk about these

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<v Speaker 2>things too much, they're talking about one nation issues and

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<v Speaker 2>therefore it people say, well, why would I have the

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<v Speaker 2>half baked thing when I can have the real thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Taylor is mainly struggling for cut through. I mean he

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<v Speaker 2>came out with a big tax policy post budget of indexation.

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<v Speaker 2>It's actually a really complex one to explain to the electorate.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think if you spoke to a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of punters out there about things like Bracker creep and

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<v Speaker 2>indexation and whatnot, then I think people wild struggle to

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<v Speaker 2>understand some of these concepts.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's what we are proposing more homes, capping homes

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<v Speaker 3>to capping migration to homes, and cheaper energy whilst we

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<v Speaker 3>put Australians first. That is the plan that we've laid

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<v Speaker 3>out for Australians.

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<v Speaker 2>So it will really take two years to sell this

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<v Speaker 2>major tax policy, and it feels like they kind of

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<v Speaker 2>announced it and then it's not the first thing they

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<v Speaker 2>talk about all the time when it needs to be.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think that their economic sales pitch has been

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<v Speaker 2>quite messy and now we're seeing the biggest excuses of

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<v Speaker 2>all excuses, Claire, that I've heard in my I've been

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<v Speaker 2>in Parliament House for nine years now. For Angus Taylor

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<v Speaker 2>to have blamed Labor for his declining poll numbers for

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<v Speaker 2>the Coalition's primary falling to an equal record low of

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen percent, which is the number they used to justify

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<v Speaker 2>rolling Susan Lee. He said, oh, well, that's just because

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<v Speaker 2>Labor delivered a bad budget and they're viewing Labor and

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<v Speaker 2>the Coalition is the same, so we got hit by

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<v Speaker 2>that bad budget as well. It's not only a logical

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<v Speaker 2>but it's really sioky and for a party of personal

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<v Speaker 2>responsibility to be blaming your political opponent I mean one

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal MP did mention it's like KFC blaming McDonald's for

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<v Speaker 2>bad sales.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you can imagine Anthony Albanezi enjoyed that analogy quite

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<v Speaker 1>a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah, it was just it does really raise questions about

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<v Speaker 2>whether Angus Taylor is in the frame of mind he

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<v Speaker 2>needs to be in to tackle I think the greatest

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<v Speaker 2>challenge the Liberal Party has faced. He's not a naturally

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<v Speaker 2>charismatic politician. That doesn't rule you out of being Prime minister,

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<v Speaker 2>but he's got to work for it. He's got to

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<v Speaker 2>fight for it. He's got to be in the media

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<v Speaker 2>every day, he's got to be doing far more than

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<v Speaker 2>what he is now. He does seem to be a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit entitled.

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<v Speaker 1>They have on their side an absolute expert opposition leader

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<v Speaker 1>in Tony Abbott. He was probably one of the most

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<v Speaker 1>effective opposition leaders Australia has ever seen. Whether he was

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<v Speaker 1>effective as Prime minister is another question. Now he's the

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<v Speaker 1>federal President of the Liberal Party and I was intrigued

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<v Speaker 1>greg to see that Tony Abbott, who really made it

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<v Speaker 1>his business when he was in Parliament to identify one

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<v Speaker 1>Nation as an existential threat to the center right parties.

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<v Speaker 1>The mainstream center right coalition parties. He was very clear

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<v Speaker 1>throughout his career that one nation was the enemy. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>he raised funds to defeat one nation separately from his

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<v Speaker 1>own activities as opposition leader. He's now endorsing the idea though,

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<v Speaker 1>of the coalition doing preference deals with one nation. Now

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<v Speaker 1>that changes the game completely, doesn't it? Because the accepted

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<v Speaker 1>wisdom in Australia is that our two party proferential voting

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<v Speaker 1>system and effectively means that one nation can never govern

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<v Speaker 1>and can never get the number of seats they need

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<v Speaker 1>to get them anywhere close to the front benches. What

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<v Speaker 1>is going on there?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this is highly contentious within the Liberal Party for

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<v Speaker 2>a number of reasons. A. Some people don't feel that

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party and the Coalition should be working with

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<v Speaker 2>one nation. That's one point. But another point is why

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<v Speaker 2>are we telegraphing this two years out from an election?

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<v Speaker 2>How is that a good strategy. Surely we should keep

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<v Speaker 2>saying that we can stand on our own two feet

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<v Speaker 2>until the very moment we decide we need to do

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<v Speaker 2>a deal. But there are other Liberal MP's, and we

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<v Speaker 2>have in the Australian on Thursday, Tony Passon, who is

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<v Speaker 2>a key supporter of Angus Taylor. He is supporting the

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<v Speaker 2>idea of one nation and the coalition discussing what candidates

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<v Speaker 2>run where you know, who runs against labor and even

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<v Speaker 2>getting into that sort of granular level of detail. So

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<v Speaker 2>there definitely is a view that Abbott is a part

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<v Speaker 2>of that reality is they need to work together to

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<v Speaker 2>chuck labor out. But that definitely isn't unanimous and it's

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<v Speaker 2>highly contentious.

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<v Speaker 1>Something that the coalition parties I think have always taken

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<v Speaker 1>comfort from is that one nation is a bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a rabble and their policies are very simplistic. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>so they have ideas like income splitting or opposing vaccine mandates.

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<v Speaker 1>If let's say, hypothetically the Coalition was to form some

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<v Speaker 1>form of new coalition with one nation, how far would

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<v Speaker 1>those ideas be able to get? You know, would the

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<v Speaker 1>deal involve having to do some of these things that

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<v Speaker 1>one nation wants?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I guess if Paul Enhancement's popularity keeps increasing, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>she'll have to say of how far the deal goes

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<v Speaker 2>more than what the Liberal Party or the Nationals would.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I think this is all very much to

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<v Speaker 2>play out. And the other thing that worries me a bit,

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<v Speaker 2>Claire from the coalition side of things is this idea

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<v Speaker 2>that they can't bag Pauline, which is ridiculous. I mean, sure,

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<v Speaker 2>at the moment when she is very popular, people won't

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<v Speaker 2>like it when you criticize her. And we're not talking

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<v Speaker 2>about criticizing her supporters all their anxieties. We're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>criticizing her and the way she goes about things. But

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<v Speaker 2>what you've got to do is, over time, over months

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<v Speaker 2>and years, keep doing it, keep plugging away at it,

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<v Speaker 2>and then eventually voters can see your points that they've

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<v Speaker 2>got all these policies out there that haven't bothered to

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<v Speaker 2>cost any of them. They don't really know the true

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<v Speaker 2>impact of what they're proposing, and fundamentally they are about

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<v Speaker 2>appealing to people's grievances rather than solutions. They're starting to

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<v Speaker 2>get quite sensitive about this label, but they're yet to

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<v Speaker 2>show otherwise that they have solutions to actually improve people's lives.

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<v Speaker 1>It's interesting that idea of not attacking Pauline isn't it

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<v Speaker 1>because Pauline. It doesn't play nice And.

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<v Speaker 3>I felt sorry for the people of Victoria, and that's

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<v Speaker 3>how they feel about Jasenda Allen because of what she's

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<v Speaker 3>done to that state, no wonder they call her a witch.

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<v Speaker 1>She is starting fights simultaneously with Jacinta Allen, the Victorian Premier,

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<v Speaker 1>with Fatima Payman, the Senator, who she says shouldn't be

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<v Speaker 1>sitting in parliament anyway because she's a dual citizen. She's

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<v Speaker 1>even picked a fight with the late Tim Fisher, a

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<v Speaker 1>venerated hero of the National Party, saying that he once

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<v Speaker 1>said that she was a witch who should be burned

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<v Speaker 1>at the stake. I mean, I suspect that is something

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<v Speaker 1>that Tim Fisher's family would strongly disagree that he ever said,

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<v Speaker 1>or maybe those whoys have been taken out of context.

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<v Speaker 1>She has never bothered with pretending to like anyone else

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<v Speaker 1>in politics, has she She's.

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<v Speaker 2>Never bothered being polite to anyone else.

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<v Speaker 3>Know.

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<v Speaker 2>And she even had to go I listened back to

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<v Speaker 2>a podcast she did with Carl Stefanovic at the beginning

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<v Speaker 2>of the year, and she had to go at Anthony

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<v Speaker 2>Alberici's mother for living in social life for as long

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<v Speaker 2>as she did. You know, she said she should have

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<v Speaker 2>just had it for a short period of time. So

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<v Speaker 2>she goes even after people's mothers. But this idea that listen,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't doubt that when they have a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a crack at Pauline and her policies and the way

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<v Speaker 2>she goes about things that right now where we're sitting

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<v Speaker 2>in June of twenty twenty six, it goes down like

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<v Speaker 2>a lead balloon among the voters they're trying to win back.

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<v Speaker 2>But my point is they can't just say, oh, well,

0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.320
<v Speaker 2>we'll stop doing that, because then she gets a free run.

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:34.520
<v Speaker 2>In my view, that would actually in the long term

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:39.319
<v Speaker 2>be counterproductive. If they stick at holding her to account

0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.560
<v Speaker 2>and that playing out poorly in the short term, I

0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.280
<v Speaker 2>think it enables them to take bark off her, continue

0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.120
<v Speaker 2>taking bark off her where they get to the extent

0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.240
<v Speaker 2>that when there's an election due in less than two

0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.280
<v Speaker 2>years now that you know the public may be more

0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:57.520
<v Speaker 2>uncertain about her.

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<v Speaker 1>Does angers Taylor have the guts to do that.

0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.240
<v Speaker 2>It's not appearing at this stage that he's willing to

0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.240
<v Speaker 2>go down that track. And you know, he was very

0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:11.000
<v Speaker 2>supportive of Tony Abbott becoming Liberal Party president. So I

0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.920
<v Speaker 2>haven't been able to establish this. But given that Tony

0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.520
<v Speaker 2>Passon is saying what he's saying, and he is a

0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.400
<v Speaker 2>big supporter of Angus Taylor. Given that Tony Abbott is

0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.880
<v Speaker 2>saying what he's saying, I think it will be a

0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.960
<v Speaker 2>fair assumption that Angus Taylor is at least very open

0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 2>to working with one nation in some sort of coordinated

0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:33.920
<v Speaker 2>way to campaign against the Labor Party. So, based on

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<v Speaker 2>the evidence that we've seen so far, you would think

0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.920
<v Speaker 2>that that's not the route he's going down.

0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:49.920
<v Speaker 1>Greg Brown, thank you very much, Thanks Claire. Greg Brown

0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.000
<v Speaker 1>is The Australian's chief political correspondent. You can read all

0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.600
<v Speaker 1>his reporting, plus the best of politics, anytime at the

0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Australian dot com dot au