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Speaker 1: Doctor Adam Freezer. Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's very good to be here, mister Taylor. Actually, the

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Speaker 2: last time I heard your name, I was in the

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Speaker 2: Melbourne Conis Club and this announcement comes over and says,

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Speaker 2: if Paul Taylor is in the lounge, could he please

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Speaker 2: proceed to his flight. It's fully boarded and awaiting his arrival.

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Speaker 2: And I stood up, going where is he? And I

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Speaker 2: watch you just casually stroll out of the lounge, not

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Speaker 2: a care in the world. I would have been sprinting that.

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Speaker 1: You were like, yeah, man, you know you kind of

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Speaker 1: wait till they call you name.

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Speaker 3: Bro, I'll tell you.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you another story actually on that there was

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Speaker 1: a mere to mine who was over from the UK

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Speaker 1: for a while here, and we were driving to the

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Speaker 1: airport and I was last minute dot com as you show, right,

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Speaker 1: and we're still five minutes away from Melbourne Airport and

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Speaker 1: it's half an hour before the flight, and Jesus is like,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing to we just we just need

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Speaker 1: to turn and go home, and I'm like, we're bye.

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Speaker 3: So I pulled in. Luckily enough, I went into the

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Speaker 3: valley parking, right.

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Speaker 4: Straight up the stairs, straight through security.

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Speaker 1: And just walked onto the flight before they actually called

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Speaker 1: Arnim that time.

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Speaker 4: He couldn't believe it because in the UK, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 4: tis you an R to get through security in the UK?

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Speaker 1: Right, it's horrendous, But my listeners will not be surprised

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Speaker 1: by that story. Thanks for throwing me under the bus,

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Speaker 1: your bastard, So ma for the listeners. And you are

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Speaker 1: you're a fellow speaker actually, so you have your PhD.

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Speaker 1: I'm about to get my PhD, so I'm just about

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Speaker 1: to submit it.

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Speaker 4: But you've been you know, we're.

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Speaker 1: Both professional speakers. You met on the speaking circuit. You've

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Speaker 1: been doing it a bit longer than me. I've got

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Speaker 1: one best selling book, you've got four best selling books.

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Speaker 1: I've done a little bit of TV. You've done a

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Speaker 1: lot of TV, right, So you're kind of a little

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Speaker 1: bit like my big brother in the speaking circuit.

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Speaker 4: But and actually one of those people.

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Speaker 1: Who helps other speakers out right and talks to them about, hey,

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Speaker 1: is there anything that I can do to help? And

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Speaker 1: you know, we chat about content and those sorts of

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Speaker 1: things rather than the speakers who are you know very

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Speaker 1: much like hold on to all their own stuff for

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Speaker 1: steal your stuff for those sorts of people pride and

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Speaker 1: one thing.

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Speaker 2: Where I win saw you at the Happiness in Its

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Speaker 2: Causes conference a while ago, and you only had like

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Speaker 2: twenty minutes and you came out and slayed like you

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Speaker 2: were the best session of the day. And we have

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Speaker 2: very very different styles. But at one point you were

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Speaker 2: talking about like a lot of similar stuff to what

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Speaker 2: I talk about in terms of, you know, the content

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Speaker 2: and the focus, but it was just it was so different,

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Speaker 2: like the average person wouldn't have picked it up, but

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Speaker 2: it was just like there are some rule we have

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Speaker 2: some really good parallels in some of the work that

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Speaker 2: we do, and very similar beliefs, you know, and certainly

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Speaker 2: our attitude towards research and science is very aligned.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Look, tell us I tell the listeners about your PhD, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's in a pretty interesting area that then has

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Speaker 1: sort of spawned what you talk about to Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I my undergraduate was biomedical science, which is

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Speaker 2: a blend of psychology and physiology. And one thing I

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Speaker 2: was trying to work out I was going to do

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Speaker 2: and I was going to go down the psychology path,

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Speaker 2: and then they told me how many hours of counseling

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Speaker 2: I had to do. And I was like, oh, screw that.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sitting in a room listening to people's problems

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Speaker 2: for that long. So I went down the sort of

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Speaker 2: research arm and my PhD looked at and this is

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Speaker 2: far out. Oh god, I kin't of remember. This is

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Speaker 2: early two thousands, how our lifestyle factors affected a group

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Speaker 2: of unhealthy middle aged men. But we measured from quality

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Speaker 2: of life, happiness, cellular function, insolent sensitivity, you know, like strength,

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Speaker 2: all this stuff. So what we were looking at is

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Speaker 2: just if we change someone's lifestyle, what gets better? So

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Speaker 2: that was and the whole thing is we were looking

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Speaker 2: at both resistance training and aerobic training, as well as nutrition.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, the HD was kind of ahead of its time,

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Speaker 2: like not through any design but just through luck and

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Speaker 2: if and what we showed is a dramatic increase in

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Speaker 2: happiness through exercise. But it was like the first study

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Speaker 2: to show that. And if I had a had that,

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Speaker 2: if I had had the foresight, like I'd be world

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Speaker 2: famous today if because other people sort of picked that

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Speaker 2: up and ran with it, but I just I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I didn't recognize it at the time. But yeah, it

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Speaker 2: was a good PhD. I'm in it put me in

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Speaker 2: therapy and I kind of had a breakdown after it,

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Speaker 2: but other than that, it was fine. Yeah, have you

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Speaker 2: scheduled yours?

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Speaker 4: You got kids, you.

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Speaker 2: Don't have time for that.

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Speaker 1: No, No, exactly, that's right, that's right. I'm hopefully going

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Speaker 1: to submit at the end of the week.

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Speaker 2: Actually, that's a massive achievement, Like, congratulations, the fact that

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Speaker 2: you rundlessness, you're doing all that, you're raising kids, you're

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Speaker 2: swearing at people on stage like you're amazing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Man, there's one thing submitted and there's another one getting

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Speaker 1: it actually approved by the external examiner.

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Speaker 3: So let's just watched this.

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Speaker 1: But actually, interestingly, it's in a very similar area to yours.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a psychophysiological approach to cognitive fitness, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of performance on depression.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yes, I mean I want to talk to you

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Speaker 2: about your PhD, but you just supposed to ask the

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Speaker 2: questions the other way.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, look, I'm sure we I'm sure we will

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Speaker 1: back and forth. And word is really I mean, obviously

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Speaker 1: your PhD spawneded, but were there any other moments along

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Speaker 1: the way, just from you being a speaker that that

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Speaker 1: really brought home that strong interaction between physiology and psychology, right.

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Speaker 1: I think we're both big believers in this two way

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Speaker 1: interaction between physiology and psychology.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and probably people listening to this won't realize how

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Speaker 2: separate those two worlds were up till recently. And you know,

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Speaker 2: podcasts like yours and researchers like you really understand that.

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Speaker 2: But for many years, particularly when I went through my undergraduate,

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Speaker 2: we treated those two things as totally separate and they

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Speaker 2: never really affected each other. But I mean, it is

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Speaker 2: so critical and and so much of the just the

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Speaker 2: basic physiology around sleep around you know, fatigue management, recovery,

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Speaker 2: all those things, you just can't get away from them

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Speaker 2: because they're just the absolute bedrock that everything else is

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Speaker 2: built on. Like you talk about ability to handle pressure,

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Speaker 2: capacity to think about leaders My gosh, that's a tough job.

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Speaker 2: And just having that really strong base of physiology that

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Speaker 2: allows you to respond in a constructive, healthy way is

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Speaker 2: so critical. And I look at you know, one of

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Speaker 2: the pieces of work that we both do that's very

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Speaker 2: similar is the stuff around act or psychological flexibility, and

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Speaker 2: that requires huge levels of self awareness and cognition, and

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Speaker 2: you just can't do that if you're not in a

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Speaker 2: good physical space. So yeah, those two worlds I see

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Speaker 2: are just so so linked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean we talk, we currently talk about

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Speaker 1: the fundamentals, like if you want to be a sustainable

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Speaker 1: peak performer, and I think that's the key word, right,

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Speaker 1: because there's a lot of business.

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Speaker 3: Leaders out there who are.

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Speaker 1: Peak performers, but they're headed towards Bonotte pretty quickly. And

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Speaker 1: you have seen them and I've seen them. But if

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Speaker 1: you want to be sustainable, you've got to get your

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Speaker 1: foundations right of exercise, of sleep, of good nutrition, hydration,

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Speaker 1: you're all.

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Speaker 4: That recovery stuff.

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Speaker 1: Because if you don't have that basis, how can can

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Speaker 1: you expect your brilland to work well in a sustainable

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Speaker 1: manner without it's just imploding.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And like I mean, you asked me before as

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Speaker 2: a speaker, do you see things? I was in Broken

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Speaker 2: Hill doing some work out there, and there was a

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Speaker 2: leader like stuff had really hit the fan, and there

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Speaker 2: was a leader who had to take on so much

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Speaker 2: and she was just out of a mind. Even trying

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Speaker 2: to have a conversation with her. She was just all

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Speaker 2: over the place. And I never kind of pull people

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Speaker 2: aside and go, oh, I want to give you some advice,

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Speaker 2: like you don't want to be that guy. But I

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Speaker 2: said to her, Hey, after this session, I need to

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Speaker 2: have a serious talk to you. And I just went, hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm really worried about you because I just don't think

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Speaker 2: you can keep this up. And here's what I'm seeing.

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Speaker 2: And she was kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: know what you're saying, but I just got to get

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Speaker 2: through this period. And then you know what I found

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Speaker 2: is she had a complete breakdown and end up in hospital,

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Speaker 2: like she just imploded one day, and yeah, it was

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Speaker 2: you could see it coming them all away. So that

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Speaker 2: basic stuff around recovery and all those habits that we

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Speaker 2: know we should have are just truly foundational.

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Speaker 4: So let's talk about practical stuff, right.

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Speaker 1: So before we even get to that recovery and all

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Speaker 1: those foundations, it's really about when someone goes home from

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Speaker 1: work that's shifting over.

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Speaker 4: And you've written a brilliant, award winning.

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Speaker 1: Book called the Third Space, so it's a concept that's

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Speaker 1: resonated with pretty much everybody who's read it. Explain to

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Speaker 1: us what the third space is, and you know how

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Speaker 1: you came up with it and why you think it's

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Speaker 1: critical for sustainable peak performance. And just and actually for

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Speaker 1: most people just to be surviving in today's world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and really it kind of as most of the

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Speaker 2: stuff I come up with, I came up with a

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Speaker 2: by accident. So we were doing a lot of work

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Speaker 2: with the military. When I was at university, we had

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Speaker 2: only one of a few climate chambers, so we could

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Speaker 2: do some stuff with the military where it's forty degrees,

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Speaker 2: it's one hundred percent humidity, they've got to run on

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Speaker 2: a treadmill like. So the military loved us, and I

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Speaker 2: was just hanging out with these people and chatting. And

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Speaker 2: I had a couple of mates that were in the ESAs,

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Speaker 2: and one thing I would ask them is what's the

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Speaker 2: hardest part about being a soldier or you know, in

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Speaker 2: special forces? And all of them said coming home is

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Speaker 2: the hardest part. And just what they talked about is how,

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Speaker 2: you know, for the first two weeks they'd just fight

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Speaker 2: with their family before they were kind of acclimatized. And

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Speaker 2: it just really made me think about that transition. And then,

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Speaker 2: you know, I had an interaction with a CEO who

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Speaker 2: talked about how he literally built a new entrance into

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Speaker 2: his home so he would go into his room, shower,

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Speaker 2: get changed and then go down and see the family.

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Speaker 2: And then I spoke to an expert in high performance

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Speaker 2: tennis players and he talked about the transition between points

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Speaker 2: being the most important. So what just kept coming up

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Speaker 2: is how we move from one thing to the next

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Speaker 2: is vitally important, like the physiology we bring, the mindset

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Speaker 2: we bring, and I just kept seeing it everywhere. So

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Speaker 2: for people listening to this kind of the first space

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Speaker 2: is what you're doing now, second space what you're about

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Speaker 2: to do, and the third space is that transitional gap.

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Speaker 2: And what we just look at is, well, is that

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Speaker 2: gap critical? And what we found with high performers is

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Speaker 2: it's vital. So what we do in that gap to

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Speaker 2: leave what we've just done behind, but most importantly get

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Speaker 2: our mindset right for what we're about to go into.

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Speaker 2: So whether it's one meeting to the next or you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you do it. Like before I walk on stage,

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Speaker 2: I need that third space to get my head in

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Speaker 2: the game and to get really focused. So I have

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Speaker 2: a process that I go through. But even like I'm

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Speaker 2: talking to you now, which is awesome and fun, and

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Speaker 2: I don't get to see you very often, so it's

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Speaker 2: really good. But in a minute. I've got to go

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Speaker 2: home to two teenage tortoise. Man. That is not fun

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Speaker 2: and not enjoyable, and I'm in the trenches man. Oh

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Speaker 2: so I've got to go home and I've got to

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Speaker 2: be empathetic and I've got to be caring and they're

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Speaker 2: probably going to be giving me a bit of attitude.

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Speaker 2: So it's almost like I've got to prepare myself for

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Speaker 2: that next environment. So that's what this concept of the

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Speaker 2: third space is about. And whether it's the most popular application,

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Speaker 2: is that transition from work to home, whether we're working

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Speaker 2: at our desk, spare room, commuting, just how do we

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Speaker 2: shift gears between the work mentality and the home mentality

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Speaker 2: and too often we bring the day home with this

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Speaker 2: and it's been a bad day and we take it

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Speaker 2: out on the people that we live with. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's what that concept looks at. Whether it's a transition

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Speaker 2: between a meeting or you know, it's a big transition

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Speaker 2: like a different environment. That's that's what the concepts are.

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Speaker 1: And then I has COVID shifted that right and that

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Speaker 1: increase working from home because you can see how there

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Speaker 1: would be there would be one number one a clear

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Speaker 1: stimulus when you're coming home. That's kind of like, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is a reminder. Now I'm shifting in and you're

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Speaker 1: going from one environment to the other, Like how is

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Speaker 1: that different from walking out from the home office into

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Speaker 1: the living room, And often the home office is a

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Speaker 1: corner of the living room.

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Speaker 2: I got more emails about this concept during COVID than

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Speaker 2: I ever have, and what people just sent me emails going, man,

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Speaker 2: I've had to apply this concept because when I mean,

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Speaker 2: we did a lot of research during COVID, and the

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Speaker 2: thing we is people said I missed my commute. Like

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Speaker 2: no one said I missed the physicality of it, like

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Speaker 2: I miss sitting in traffic, or I don't miss being

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Speaker 2: pressed up against a sweaty guy in a train. But

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Speaker 2: what I miss is was like a punctuation mark. It

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Speaker 2: was a symbol of you know, I'm moving between two

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Speaker 2: different worlds. But now that so many people work in

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Speaker 2: the home, what we found is when we work from home,

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Speaker 2: we work longer, longer, It is far far harder to

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Speaker 2: turn off. And what happens is we tend to work

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Speaker 2: into our personal time, either physically or mentally, like we're

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Speaker 2: still in that mode. So what people said, like, even

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Speaker 2: one guy just went oh, during COVID, I would get

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Speaker 2: I would get dressed for work. I would get in

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Speaker 2: the car, I'd go to a coffee shop, get the coffee,

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Speaker 2: drive back home, and when I walked in the house,

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Speaker 2: I went, right, I'm at work. At the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, I would leave, like I put on gym

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Speaker 2: gear and I'd go to a local park and walk

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Speaker 2: around the park. And then when I came home, it's like, right,

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Speaker 2: I'm a mom, I'm a dad, I'm a partner parent, whatever.

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Speaker 2: And even one guy, an executive I know from a bank,

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Speaker 2: he rang me and said, oh, man, you wouldn't believe it.

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Speaker 2: We tried that, you know, homeschooling, and he said that

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Speaker 2: was some sort of cruel and unusual punishment. It was

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Speaker 2: just chaos. We're yelling at the kids, they're yelling at us.

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Speaker 2: And he said, I reminded me of that concept, and

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Speaker 2: he said the next week, I literally got dressed for work,

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Speaker 2: made the kids put their school uniforms on, and we

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Speaker 2: walked around the block, came in the house and it's like, kids,

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Speaker 2: you're at school, do your lessons? Where at work? And

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Speaker 2: then at the end of the day, they would get

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Speaker 2: dressed out of their clothes and just go for a

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Speaker 2: little walk, then come back in and we're a family.

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Speaker 2: And he just talked about even just drawing those marks

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Speaker 2: in the day did so much to help our behavior

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Speaker 2: in our mindset. So yeah, COVID really that's led to

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Speaker 2: a resurgence of this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I like to at the end of the working day,

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Speaker 1: if I'm working from home, or if I've been out

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Speaker 1: and I come back in, the first thing I do

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Speaker 1: is I get changed into my exercise gear because for.

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Speaker 4: Me two reasons.

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Speaker 1: Number one, it's a it's a shift from work to

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Speaker 1: home environment, but it also is a subconscious trigger to

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Speaker 1: move more. Right, because lots of people come home and

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Speaker 1: they get into their bloody pajamas and full line. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the prime the priming is sit on your arse and

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Speaker 1: grab a bottle of wine. Right, So, what are one

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Speaker 1: or two things that that people can do to make

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Speaker 1: that transition better. I mean, you you've talked about a

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Speaker 1: few things that some people might go, Fuck, I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna go out and go round the block.

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Speaker 4: But whatever.

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Speaker 1: But what are a couple of simple techniques that people

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Speaker 1: can actually use to harness this third space so that

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Speaker 1: they're not bringing work into their person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look what we found is a good

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Speaker 2: transition from work to home. Have three elements to it,

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Speaker 2: so reflect, rest, reset. So the reflect piece is just

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Speaker 2: shut the day down, so just reflect on it. But

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Speaker 2: also if you can reflect on the good parts of

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Speaker 2: the day. So how I do it is as I

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Speaker 2: start to walk to my car to drive home, I'll

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Speaker 2: think about the day, had a couple of great meetings.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to reflect on the conversation with you.

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Speaker 2: What could I have done better? What was good about it?

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Speaker 2: So just kind of shut the day down, but in

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Speaker 2: a constructive not oh that was shit and screwed that up.

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Speaker 2: So then the next phase is rest, which is just

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Speaker 2: do anything that focuses your mind on one thing. So

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Speaker 2: you could do deep breathing, you could do listen to

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Speaker 2: a podcast, like I'm gonna I've only got a short drive,

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Speaker 2: so I'll just crank some music and you know, just

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Speaker 2: enjoy the music as I drive home. So that's rest,

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Speaker 2: and then re set is literally you're going to almost

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Speaker 2: visualize like you're an athlete. So when I walked through

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Speaker 2: that door, what kind of husband do I want to be?

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Speaker 2: What kind of dad do I want to be. So

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Speaker 2: if I'm met with attitude from my daughters, how do

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Speaker 2: I be compassionate? Or how do I be playful and

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Speaker 2: sort of diffuse it with humor. It's thinking about well,

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Speaker 2: what do I want to achieve in that environment? So

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Speaker 2: that reflectress reset is the perfect transition. But the whole

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Speaker 2: thing about this concept is super portable. Like we were

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Speaker 2: working with paramedics. Man, have you ever done any work

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Speaker 2: with them?

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Speaker 4: I am yeah.

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Speaker 1: I actually did some basic paramedic training when I was

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Speaker 1: doing helicopter search and rescue, so we had to be

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Speaker 1: and in my role, we were semi triann paramedic and

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Speaker 1: we had the span.

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Speaker 3: We did four weeks training.

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Speaker 1: And part of that was being in the guys with

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Speaker 1: the ambulance drivers, a tough kid.

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Speaker 2: What we did is we taught them this strategy, but

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Speaker 2: we weren't arrogant enough to go and here's how you're

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Speaker 2: going to implement it. We just taught them the principles

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Speaker 2: and then we said, all right, in a couple of months,

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Speaker 2: we're going to come back to you, and what we

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Speaker 2: need is how have you used at what worked, what

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Speaker 2: didn't work? And there's a rural group who got together

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Speaker 2: after the presentation. And one thing they talked about is

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Speaker 2: they will go home after a shift. They're still in

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Speaker 2: their clothes and they might be running late and they've

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Speaker 2: got to take a kid to footy training. And they're

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Speaker 2: standing on the sideline at footy training in their paramedics

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Speaker 2: outfit and people come up and go, oh, what happened

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Speaker 2: with that accident the other day or what's going on

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Speaker 2: and they're still talking about work. And they came up

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Speaker 2: with a campaign called get out of the Green. Now

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Speaker 2: their uniform's green. And they said there's two steps. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of like what you do. You leave your boots

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Speaker 2: at the door, like the boots don't come in, and

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Speaker 2: the first thing you do is go to your room

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Speaker 2: and you peel that day off, like you take off

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Speaker 2: the identity. And they said it's a symbolistic thing, but

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Speaker 2: it's also a mindset shift. So you can really do

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Speaker 2: you can really do anything that works for you. I mean,

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Speaker 2: people listening to this take it, play around with it.

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Speaker 2: Like one things my wife and I will do is

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Speaker 2: go for a walk and then when we come back,

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Speaker 2: that's like parenting time, you know, time with the kids.

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Speaker 2: But even like as I go to home, one of

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Speaker 2: the things I focus on and it might sound negative,

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Speaker 2: but it works really well is when I walk in

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Speaker 2: the door, I just think how many more years have

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Speaker 2: I got with my girls, like teen and twelve, and

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Speaker 2: it has flowing and I just go, Man, don't be

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Speaker 2: a douchebag, like just enjoy it for even the crappy parts.

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Speaker 2: Still just get into it, be present, really try and

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Speaker 2: make the most of it because it's going to go

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Speaker 2: within a blink of an eye. So really you can

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Speaker 2: just use any think that fits into that that gets

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Speaker 2: a better outcome.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But I love the idea of reflect, rest, and reset

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Speaker 1: and people can can play within those things and that

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Speaker 1: you know, you then talked about transitioning and visualizing who

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Speaker 1: you want to be.

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Speaker 4: So let's talk about Kevin.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Kevin. Yeah. So I mean where this came from

403
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Speaker 2: is both you and I are fans of ACT therapy

404
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Speaker 2: or some people refer to it as psychological flexibility, But basically,

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Speaker 2: I mean Steve Hayes, a researcher from the US, kind

406
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Speaker 2: of came up with this different view of how we

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Speaker 2: manage our thoughts and emotions, and away from that, I

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Speaker 2: have to attack and get rid of my negative thoughts

409
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Speaker 2: and emotions too. Well, they're just information that comes into me. Like,

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00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 2: they're not me. I don't have to follow them, they're

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Speaker 2: not commands. They're just how I perceive the world. And

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Speaker 2: rather than I have to stop them or get rid

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Speaker 2: of them, how do I accept them? But you know,

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Speaker 2: do the action that's going to improve my life or

415
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Speaker 2: live a line to my values or achieve this goal

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Speaker 2: that I'm after. So what I found, and I'll get

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Speaker 2: your opinion on this too, is trying to explain act

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Speaker 2: to people when there's six components to act and one

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Speaker 2: of them is self as concept and you say that

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Speaker 2: to someone, they go, what the hell does that mean?

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Speaker 2: So what I've really struggled with is how do I

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Speaker 2: teach people this new science. And I was doing a

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Speaker 2: piece of research looking at courage and we interviewed a

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Speaker 2: circus troop who performed without safety gear. And first question

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Speaker 2: I asked them is do you have negative thoughts when

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Speaker 2: you walk out on stage? And all of them said,

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Speaker 2: of course, we do, Like there is never a performance

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Speaker 2: where you're complete confident. You're always worried about something going wrong.

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Speaker 2: And I said, well, how do you manage those negative thoughts?

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Speaker 2: And the head of the troop Catherine, she goes, do

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Speaker 2: you mean Kevin? And I'm like, I don't know who

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Speaker 2: Kevin is, but like, how do you manage your negative thoughts?

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Speaker 2: And she said, yeah, that's Kevin. I'm like, who the

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Speaker 2: hell's Kevin? And what they had done is created a

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Speaker 2: character in their head called Kevin. Because what they worked

436
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,959
Speaker 2: out without any psychology, just with experience and common sense,

437
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,239
Speaker 2: is they said, man, we've been trying to get rid

438
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 2: of that voice our whole life and it's just not

439
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 2: going away. So how do we manage that voice? How

440
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 2: do we kind of make peace with that voice? And

441
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: what they picture is that we have a part of

442
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 2: our brain that tries to put us off for tries

443
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: to bring us undone, and that's Kevin, and that Kevin's

444
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 2: like a radio in the background. We don't really pay

445
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 2: him a lot of attention. He's there, but he doesn't

446
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 2: get to run the show. And so what they had

447
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 2: and what they would do is they'd have a little

448
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: huddle before they went out and they'd say to each

449
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: other house keV and you might go, Kevin's under control,

450
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,719
Speaker 2: got him on a tight leash, but I might go

451
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 2: far out in how we put that new catch in.

452
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: All day, Kevin's just been saying I'm going to drop

453
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: someone tonight. So they go, all right, let's manage Kevin.

454
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 2: And I walked away from it going that is such

455
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 2: a beautiful way to represent. And you call it the gremlin,

456
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 2: but we h's part of our brain that goes, you're

457
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 2: not good enough, you suck, you're a terrible parent. You know,

458
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 2: why would everyone book you as a speaker? You don't

459
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 2: know what you're doing. And rather than going oh, I

460
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: shouldn't say that to myself, it's like, well, that's Kevin.

461
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 2: Kevin's a bit of a douche. But I don't let

462
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 2: Kevin run the show. And it's almost like a blazinus

463
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: or an indifference of yeah, yeah, that's Kevin. And you know,

464
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: I have taught this to a few people, and I

465
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: taught it to some senior partners in a professional services

466
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: firm and they came back for the second workshop and

467
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, we bloody love Kevin. And I'm like,

468
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 2: what do you mean? And they said, man, we've been

469
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: talking about door month. Like before a big pitch, we

470
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 2: will say to each other, what's your Kevin saying? And

471
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 2: they'll go, oh, far out Kevin's saying that if the

472
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,479
Speaker 2: client asked this question, I'm going to screw it up.

473
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 2: And what they were talking about is just you know,

474
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: they made a lot of jokes, but they said, it's

475
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 2: actually made us vulnerable, and it's made vulnerability okay, because

476
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: it's a character. It's not us.

477
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the cool.

478
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 2: Thing, isn't it. And I mean you had some pretty

479
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: big egos in that room and them starting to be

480
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: vulnerable where they just they would say to each other

481
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 2: far out, man, Kevin's kicking my ass right now, and

482
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: they would talk about it. So, yeah, that's what Kevin's about.

483
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 2: How do we manage that voice?

484
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: And it's interesting, isn't it, Because when you get a

485
00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: bit little bit deeper into the psychology that Kevin, you know,

486
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: the genesis of Kevin is from your early years and

487
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: that those life experiences and sometimes the stuff that Kevin

488
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: says served.

489
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 4: You well in the past but is no longer serving

490
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 4: you well. Right.

491
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: That's the key thing is to work out when when

492
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: did Kevin stop being helpful for me or what specific

493
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: situation would Kevin be helpful for me?

494
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 2: And that's the key is not go, oh, Kevin's a douchebag,

495
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 2: just go, well, what's Kevin trying to tell me here?

496
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: Or you know what I found with people that really

497
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 2: use that, they get to the point where they go, yeah,

498
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: when I screw up, Kevin says this, like there's a

499
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: patterner of behavior to Kevin. Kevin hates uncertainty, Kevin hates

500
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: when you know, I'm vulnerable, I'm putting myself out there.

501
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 2: So it's almost like they recognize these patterns and they go,

502
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 2: I know what Kevin's going to say before even says it.

503
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: So it's just kind of this this but you don't

504
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 2: want to seem as a bad thing because sometimes what

505
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 2: Kevin says to us is because someone's mean to us

506
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: when we're five, or because our dad freaking yelled at

507
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: us and scared the hell out of us. Like he

508
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: comes from all different like there's all different things that

509
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 2: cause him and he's not a he's not a bad

510
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: part of us, but he tends to lead us astray

511
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 2: or into dysfunctional behaviors.

512
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think the key is not

513
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: to get in a bloody argument with Kevin, right, and

514
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: I think this is no that's right, and this is

515
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: a bit of a difference I find between CBT and ACT.

516
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: And you know, with CBT and the abcdes the active

517
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: eating event, the belief system, the consequences and end.

518
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 4: The d is the disputation right right, war.

519
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: Is the evidence for this? Well, often Kevin will go.

520
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 4: Well, fuck it, hell, I'll give you evidence.

521
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: You're ship because of this, this, this, and this right

522
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: and look at you, you're facts right.

523
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 4: So for me, it's it's not it's not is Kevin

524
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 4: raider as he wrot?

525
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: Is Kevin helpful right now in this situation with the

526
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: outcome that I'm after?

527
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: And and that's the key thing is people say to me,

528
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: are Kevin's bad or Kevin's that negative voice? And I'm like,

529
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 2: not necessarily because it could be a positive voice. So

530
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 2: I've I've lost two good mates to suicide throughout my

531
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: life and it is just one of the shittiest, Like

532
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: it is so fricking horrible. There is just nothing good

533
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: that anyway. So, and each of those friends had had

534
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: stuff that had happened to them and they never talked

535
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 2: about it and they kept it inside and it basically

536
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: just blew up and literally killed them. And you know,

537
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: Kevin can be in those situations particularly if men, if

538
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: they're struggling with their mental health, Kevin will come in

539
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: and go Now you'll be all right. You just push through,

540
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 2: you know, and you're tough, you can handle this. So

541
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: it's actually a positive voice, but it's leading you to dysfunction.

542
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: So it's not whether the voice is positive or negative.

543
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: It's does the voice improve your situation, like you just said,

544
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: or does it make it worse? And that's the piece

545
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 2: about Kevin is he tries to lead you away from

546
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: what's important to you or what would be a good move.

547
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, very cool. I like that.

548
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: And look, the first step in this whole psychological flexibility game,

549
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: because that's what we're talking about, it is kind of

550
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: that self awareness, right and being a war of the

551
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: voice in your head. Now, then when you recognize Kevin,

552
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: you realize Kevin's not helpful. Give us one or two

553
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: things that people can then do so that they can

554
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: get in a better frame of mind and achieve a

555
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: better outcome.

556
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: You will what we I mean when I teach this,

557
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: I talk about a four step process. So whenever we

558
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,239
Speaker 2: come up against challenge. So this doesn't mean you have

559
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: to monitor Kevin twenty four to seven all the time,

560
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: like you go insane, But it's when you come up

561
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: against challenge can you be self aware? And the self

562
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 2: awareness is what is Kevin saying to me, Like what's

563
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: a story he's telling me? And what are the emotions

564
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,479
Speaker 2: that come with that? So that's the first piece and

565
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: I'll give you I'll give you an example at the end.

566
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 2: The second part is the acceptance, and it's exactly what

567
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: you said of I'm not getting into an argument with Kevin.

568
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: I just accept that's what Kevin says in that situation,

569
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 2: and it could be due to ten thousand things, and

570
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit with a therapist to try

571
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: and work it out. I don't know what drives it,

572
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 2: but I just accept that in this situation, this is

573
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: what Kevin says, and that acceptance moves you out of

574
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 2: I'll have an internal fight in my head, and it

575
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 2: moves you towards well what action can I take? And

576
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: then the third step is about focus on the development

577
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: that will come out of it. So if I stand

578
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 2: up to this challenge, if I take this on, how

579
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: will I grow and evolve? How will my life be better?

580
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: How will this help me be aligned to my values?

581
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,479
Speaker 2: And then the last step is can I engage in

582
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: towards behaviors? So we call it the safe model self awareness, acceptance,

583
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: focus on evolution, and the last part is engage in

584
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 2: towards behaviors. And towards behaviors are just those behaviors that

585
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: are going to get a better outcome, that are constructive,

586
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: that will improve. So if I think about my fifteen

587
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: year old at the moment, oh my gosh, she's given

588
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 2: me so much attitude. And I grew up in a

589
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: house like my dad was a Scottish motor mechanic. He

590
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: was he barely talked. We were terrified of him, right,

591
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: so we had we had respect for our parents and

592
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 2: we would never ever dream of talking back to our parents. Right,

593
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: That's how I grew up. So my fifteen year old,

594
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: she's given me heaps of attitude, so that when she's

595
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: mean to me, my self awareness is the story I

596
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: come up with, or Kevin comes up with, she shouldn't

597
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: talk to you like that. That's a disgrace. You do

598
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 2: so much for her. She doesn't appreciate you, appreciate you.

599
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: What a horrible child she is, right, that's what Kevin say.

600
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 2: And the acceptance piece is I don't know why, but

601
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: that's my reaction, and it's a fairly reasonable reaction. So

602
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: I don't get into, oh, I'm a terrible pair and

603
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say that about my kid now, Like, yeah,

604
00:33:58,560 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: she was rude to me. Of course I'm going to

605
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 2: have all these reactions. The focus on development is I

606
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 2: can either go into battle with her or I could

607
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: be mean to her. But you know, my value is

608
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: I want to stay really connected to my kids and

609
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 2: I want to be the person they come back to

610
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: and that they can rely on. And in that moment,

611
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: I go, what is what's the most constructive behavior I

612
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: can do? And literally the other day she was having

613
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: a meltdown, and when she was having a meltdown, she

614
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 2: was being mean to me, and I could tell she

615
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: was struggling. Kevin's telling me all this stuff and all ideas.

616
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 2: Just walked up and gave her a hug.

617
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I gave her a hug.

618
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 2: And you know when someone like literally falls into you,

619
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: like she was just so stressed and overwhelmed. She just

620
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 2: needed that. And so it was almost like I don't

621
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 2: even when it comes to my parenting in particular, I

622
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 2: don't even pay attention to Kevin, I'm like, I know

623
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 2: the behaviors that will get an outcome, so you know,

624
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:00,959
Speaker 2: I use that model to engage with her. Yeah, there's

625
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 2: there's an example in a full step process.

626
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, Matte that that is very cool, and I.

627
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: Will I will give you a.

628
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 3: Little bit of hope for the future.

629
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: My daughter, who has been long been a master of

630
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: the art of pushing my buttons, has has not gone

631
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: to university and has come home the last couple of

632
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: weekends and it's been just blissed, absolute cares. Not eighteen,

633
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: just about to turn nineteen, and she's at UNI, and

634
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: she went traveling for eight weeks throughout Asia and that

635
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: had a big impact on her, but also just the

636
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: fact that she's not UNI and it's different. And then

637
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: she came home and all that was for the weekend

638
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: was just laughter and conversation and asking our advice and

639
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: all of those sorts of things.

640
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 4: So there's there's hope.

641
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 3: There's hope, man.

642
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 2: And the problem is what I've worked out is girls

643
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 2: are so much my of than boys. So my mates

644
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: have boys and they come over. They're just dumb animals

645
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 2: that walk around the house. Right, They've got no idea

646
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: what's going on in the world. The girls just run

647
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: rings around them. They're so smart. Yeah, that doesn't change much.

648
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 3: No, no, exactly.

649
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 4: So let's let's talk about You've worked with a wide.

650
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: Range of people from special forces guys to elite athletes,

651
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: to business people and just normal humans with with your

652
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: the workshops that you do.

653
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 3: That's a good question.

654
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 4: Who are the boost interesting?

655
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 1: And now after that question, what have you learnt from

656
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: your interactions with elite levels of the military and elite

657
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: levels of athletes that we can all use that normal

658
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: people can use to improve their own lives.

659
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 2: Okay, so when I which question first.

660
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 4: It's more centristing.

661
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 2: I just I look at single parents and I go,

662
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: how the hell do you do that?

663
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 3: Do you do that?

664
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: Seriously? I My wife kind of got hit by like

665
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: a chronic fatigue thing. She got COVID and then she

666
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:26,479
Speaker 2: got influenzer A and she had this long viral thing

667
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 2: just and she's wiped out, like she's in bed. So

668
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: I'm doing it.

669
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: That's hard, that's hard, ship, Yeah, real proper sick.

670
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: But that means I'm doing everything. I'm traveling like I

671
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 2: do all the food and the planning and the cooking

672
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: like you know we have sort of separate jobs, but

673
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 2: I was doing everything, running the kids around, and after

674
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,479
Speaker 2: a week, I just went, first of all, we're never

675
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: getting divorced because I'm not doing this crap on my

676
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 2: own right. And number two, I just went, I thought

677
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: of some of my friends who were single mums, and

678
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: I just go, that's freaking Brazil, Like that's And I

679
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 2: think one of the problems we do is is we

680
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 2: look at these elite people, and you know, elite athletes

681
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: are amazing, but they're weird in that they're just so disciplined,

682
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 2: like I don't know if it's it's it's I don't

683
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 2: know if you can relate to them. And I don't

684
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 2: know about you, but some of those Special Forces, I mean,

685
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: you were in Special Forces, weren't.

686
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 4: You, Like, no, no, no, I was.

687
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: I did combat tourvival, resistance to interrogation training, but and

688
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: interactive with special Forces, but I was military could yeah right,

689
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: Well I.

690
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 2: Had a mate in the SAS and those guys are

691
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 2: just like they exist on a whole other level. You know,

692
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 2: Olympians are fascinating, but they're just a big step above

693
00:38:54,840 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 2: I think in terms of overall impressiveness that those soldiers

694
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: are just freaks. But it's kind of like the average

695
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 2: person that just blows me away. You know, the dad

696
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: that works freaking three jobs and you know, puts his

697
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: family first, or as we're talking about before, the single

698
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: mom who's you know, doing everything. Those people are just extraordinary.

699
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: I just think those people that you know, do the

700
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 2: grind day in and day out are quite amazing.

701
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 4: So he just reminded me of a little story.

702
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: Quite quite recently, I went back to Ireland and actually

703
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: caught up with a bunch of friends and caught up

704
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: with a me to mine who I had been at

705
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: school with, and I knew you had kids. We'd sort

706
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: of kept captain touch on Facebook and caught up with

707
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: each other and I was asking about his kids and

708
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: he said he has two non veribal artistic children and

709
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: I'm l dude, gee, And then he was telling me

710
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,879
Speaker 1: about just the dearly issues that are going on and

711
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 1: I'm just like, my.

712
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 4: God, how do you too, How do you and.

713
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: Your wife actually just get through a day, a single

714
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: day rather than like this is every day?

715
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 4: And yeah, so I agree with.

716
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: You with like one thing that really struck me when

717
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: I was twenty one, I kind of realized I'd grown

718
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 2: up in the Partridge family, and I thought, oh man,

719
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: I've got to experience the world a little bit more.

720
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 2: And I one of the things I decided to do

721
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: was volunteer as a companion for Camp Quality. Right, so

722
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: Camp Qualities kids who have cancer. You take them away

723
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 2: for a week long camp twice a year, and as

724
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 2: a companion, you get a camper to look after and

725
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: you stay with that camper. And over those years I

726
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 2: lost two boys, both ate when they one from a

727
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: brain tumor and one from actually not from cancer, but

728
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 2: just from an infection you got in hospital, and man,

729
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: you sit with those parents and you know, it's like

730
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 2: talking God, I'm the freaking happy guest Todayana, I'm talking

731
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: about suicide. I'm talking about this. But you sit with

732
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 2: that parent and like one of them said, I will

733
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: never smile again, Like I'm just I'm crush And I

734
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 2: was like, right on, sister, I freaking I believe you,

735
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 2: and I can understand why you feel that way. But

736
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 2: then you see me a year later and they're they're

737
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: laughing and they're they've moved, Like you never get over that, obviously,

738
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: But I think what I've learned, what the average person

739
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 2: shows me is I don't think we lack resilience like

740
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 2: everyone talks about we lack resilience. I think we're amazing.

741
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: Like your mate with the two kids that aren't verbal,

742
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: Like that guy's a freaking hero. You know, the parents

743
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: that lose children and one if they stay together, that's

744
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: a bloody miracle and to you know, go on to

745
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 2: raise fantastic children who become great adults. So yeah, I

746
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 2: kind of you know, we we love the sexy high performers,

747
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 2: but I just think, you know, some of these people

748
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 2: that just have really hard situations are quite extraordinary. Maybe

749
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 2: we don't pay them enough cudos or study them nearly enough.

750
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think you're absolutely right. Actually, one thing,

751
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: just talking about losing kids.

752
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 4: And when I am.

753
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: Just before my open heart surgery, you know what that

754
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: does is it brings into sharp focus and your your

755
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 1: own mortality, right, And I use the Stoic principle of

756
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 1: you know, meditating on your own death.

757
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 4: And I've always been a big fan of I'm not

758
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 4: always but for the.

759
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: Last number of years that stoic concept of memento maury

760
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: and member that you are mortal, but just having something

761
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: like open heart surgery where you know there's a significant

762
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: risk really makes you think about it. And in the end,

763
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:15,439
Speaker 1: I started doing the stoic and meditating on your desk,

764
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: not from a point of being morose, but just to

765
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: reflect on your life and particularly all the good stuff

766
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: in your in your life. And and Nyn actually thought,

767
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 1: you know what if this does go to ratchet, the

768
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: big silver lining and you know, the stuff that will

769
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: help me to die with a little smile on my

770
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 1: face is that if I go early, I will have

771
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: achieved my major ambition in life, which is not to

772
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: bury one of my children, because I've seen a couple

773
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: of friends who've lost kids and just what it's done

774
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: and to think about that and the impact.

775
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 4: So I think you're right.

776
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: The people who can get on with life after that

777
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: sort of stuff and have those everyday big challenges like

778
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: the single momb like the single dad, like the people

779
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: with autistic children, and you know, to an extreme non

780
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: verbal like like, there is incredible human resilience and resolve.

781
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: I think when we have to, when there's no other way,

782
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: And I think there's so many people who do not

783
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: realize their capacity because they've never been there. And if

784
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: they were forced to be there and to sit in

785
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: that shiitthole at discomfort, they would find incredible resilience.

786
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think I think our problem is we

787
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: often are wait, like we wait till we are forced

788
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 2: into it, like where we yes, we're correct resilience, but

789
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 2: what we suck at is that proactive action that we

790
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: should take before the pain hits. So yeah, I think

791
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 2: where the average person lacks is that sort of discipline

792
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: or fortitude to to you know, get in front of

793
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 2: the bad event and start to change their lives for

794
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: the better without some sort of push into it.

795
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, ad Met, I love that for you, is get

796
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: in front of the bad event. And so you know,

797
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: we're I was thinking about the elite athletes, the special

798
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: forces guys. For me, the one thing that we could

799
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: all tick from them is their incredible consistency. And you know,

800
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: it's a bit fucking dull, right, discipline consistency, But I mean,

801
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 1: because how many people listening have gone on a diet

802
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: for a while or a fitness drive for a while

803
00:45:54,120 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: and felt frigging amazing and then for some reason they stop.

804
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 4: So let's let's talk about.

805
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: Behavior change in general, and what are some things that

806
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: you think that people can do to get in front

807
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: of that bad event. And as you I'm just throwing

808
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: this question at you, so as you're thinking about the answer,

809
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 1: for me and this is this is probably I think

810
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: part of the answer you're going to give. But for me,

811
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 1: tapping into one of my core values is authenticity. And

812
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 1: authenticity is that is the thing that stops me drinking

813
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: the way that I want to drink, being an irishman

814
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: and ex military, right, And I realized that there's no

815
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 1: way that I would be being authentic if I'd be

816
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: coming home at night and going fucking hell, it's a

817
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: hard day and drinking half a bottler a bottle of wine.

818
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: And it's that authenticity that makes me get up early

819
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: and do the workouts because I know I have to

820
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: stand up in front of people and talk about stuff

821
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: and I don't want to be in authentic, right, Yeah, you.

822
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,720
Speaker 2: Don't want to be the so with the leaky taps.

823
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, exactly, that's the thing I don't want

824
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: to be.

825
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 3: Somebody. Man.

826
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 4: I see so many.

827
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: Freaking doctors who are just in horrendous ship and I said,

828
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, it just pops into my head. Physician he

829
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: likes hels right because they're not they're not authentic. So

830
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: for me, it's linking to that that value that resonates,

831
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 1: which I think a little bit of way of conversation.

832
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: But what are the some of the things that you

833
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: think having talked to so many people about behavior change,

834
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 1: what can they do or think.

835
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 4: About to get in front of the bata van?

836
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: So what I when it comes to behavior change? I

837
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 2: use Jonathan Hyatt's elephant model. So what he talks about

838
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 2: is he's a professor from the US and he says,

839
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 2: when you think about change, think about a writer on

840
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 2: top of an elephant and they're looking along the path.

841
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 2: So the rider represents what's the exact behavior you have

842
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: to do? So does the rider know where they're going?

843
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 2: And I and one of the I mean, this sounds

844
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,720
Speaker 2: so dumb, but one of the biggest breakthroughs in behavior

845
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 2: change is articulate what are the behaviors you have to do?

846
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 2: Because when most people set goals, they'll go, oh, my

847
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: goal is to lose five kilos. Well, the problem with that,

848
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 2: that's an outcome, that's great, but what are the behaviors

849
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 2: to get you there? We talk about, oh, let's drive

850
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 2: innovation through our organizations. Okay, innovation is not a behavior

851
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: like that's that's a big concept. What are the behaviors

852
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: that will get you to innovation? So one of the

853
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: problems is we're too vague and we go, oh, I

854
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 2: should you know, handle my stress, or I should meditate

855
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 2: or I should you know. We don't go all right,

856
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 2: here's what's going to happen, you know, five days week,

857
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to meditate at this time in this location,

858
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 2: and here's the app I have on my phone to

859
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 2: do it. Right, we don't get specific enough, and particularly

860
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: working with leaders, they say things like, oh, yeah, I'll

861
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 2: just I've got to empower my team. I'm like, awesome,

862
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 2: what does that actually mean? Like empower them? How with what?

863
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: Oh we're going to collaborate? Great? What the behaviors? And

864
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 2: people don't go deep enough into the behavior. So Number one,

865
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: you've got to make it really clear for the rider

866
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 2: where is it going now? The elephant represents the emotional

867
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: response to the change, and what you're trying to do

868
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 2: is get the elephant on sides because if you look

869
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 2: at that model, the elephant's the most powerful part. The

870
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: rider can pull as hard as he wants. If the

871
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 2: elephant doesn't want to go. It ain't going. And this

872
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 2: is where I try and get emotion on board with me.

873
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 2: So emotion drives behavior. What we're trying to do is

874
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 2: get emotion on board and make it appealing to do

875
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 2: the behavior. So if it is, you know, some form

876
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 2: of exercise, you know, exercising with a friend makes it

877
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 2: more enjoyable. Like I like to walk, but I'll listen

878
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 2: to podcasts while I walk, and I love like I

879
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 2: love the walk because I'm learning at the same time,

880
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 2: So that the elephant is just how do I get

881
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 2: emotion on board? And then the last part is the path.

882
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 2: And the path represents the context, the environment in which

883
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 2: I'm trying to change, and does the environment make it

884
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 2: easy to do that behavior or does it make it hard?

885
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: And this is the one people forget the most, and

886
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 2: just setting up the environment. Like you talk about drinking.

887
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: I love alcohol, like I can't drink a lot, Like

888
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: if I have four drinks, like I'm just destroyed. But

889
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 2: I really like it. And I gave up for a

890
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: while and I got in the habit of where I

891
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: was just having maybe one glass every day, and I

892
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: was like, oh man, I've got to cut that out.

893
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 2: And what I've been trying to do is not have alcohol.

894
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,240
Speaker 2: But what I realized the only way is if there's

895
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 2: none in the house.

896
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 4: Now, no none in the hot because if it's it's.

897
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: In the cupboard, I will Rah Kevin will say you

898
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,959
Speaker 2: deserve a glass of wine. You've worked very ex.

899
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: And or you open the cupboard looking for something else

900
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 1: and you see the alcohol and it hijacks your brain exactly.

901
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: It's like, I know what I need, and so what

902
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 2: I've realized is I just can't have it in the house.

903
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: So one of the things I did is just set

904
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: up my environment was really hard to get alcohol. So

905
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: they're the three things, the rider, the elephant, and the path,

906
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 2: and I just make sure I'm trying to tick off

907
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 2: as many of those as possible to obtain that behavior change.

908
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it, and and yeah, I've got a

909
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: little saying that process beats goals.

910
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 4: Every day of the week, totally right.

911
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,479
Speaker 1: So many people are just thinking about their goals and

912
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: how great it will feel, but don't put enough emphasis

913
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: on the process and behaviors. I mean, you'll have seen it, right,

914
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 1: I see it all the time. You go into corporates

915
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: and they have this vision statement or mission statement, and

916
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 1: then they have all their values and I'm like, if

917
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,879
Speaker 1: those values aren't behaviorally based, what do they really mean?

918
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 1: Like how can you hold yourself to account and hold

919
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: other people to account if they're not translated into concrete behaviors?

920
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 2: And also how many times behavior? How many times have

921
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 2: you spoken to and when? What are your values? And

922
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: they don't know.

923
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: I do that ac conferences all the time. Right, stand up?

924
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: Who can tell me the purpose of this organization?

925
00:52:59,480 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 4: Right?

926
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 3: And stand up? You can tell me the values?

927
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: And it's like it's just people doing this exercise and

928
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 1: they slap themselves on the back and think that that

929
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: that's it. It's done, and the purpose and values very

930
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: will come.

931
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:13,839
Speaker 4: Along and take us there.

932
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 2: Comment earlier though, the consistency is everything? Mmm? Like everything?

933
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 3: Yeah?

934
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is. For me.

935
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: The biggest word that people should be focusing on is

936
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: that consistency.

937
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 4: And they find out that when they're consistent, shit actually

938
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 4: changes over time.

939
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:40,240
Speaker 1: Right, So let's talk about what you do, right, Because

940
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 1: you're as busy as get out, and you know, you're

941
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 1: running a business, You've got a team, you're doing research,

942
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 1: you're doing lots of talks, you're writing books, you're raising kids,

943
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:50,720
Speaker 1: You're all over the frigging place.

944
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 4: What is this stuff that you do to enable you

945
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 4: to be a sustainable peak performer? Like, what are.

946
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: Your non negotiables around those kind of fundamentals that we

947
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: talked about earlier on.

948
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 4: Well physically and psychological Yeah.

949
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 2: I mean physically, well, actually both physically and psychologically, because

950
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 2: if I don't do it, I'm a psychological mess. They

951
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 2: exercise is non negotiable. So I do the gym six

952
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 2: times a week, and I will swim three times a week,

953
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 2: like two in the pool, one in the ocean. For me,

954
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 2: being in nature is a really big important thing. I mean,

955
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 2: and we could go into the research about the impact

956
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 2: of nature on the brain, but you know, getting in

957
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 2: the ocean, being at the beach, that really helps me. Nutrition.

958
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 2: You know, I've always been really solid on nothing, just

959
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 2: heaps of fiber, you know the stuff you talk about,

960
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 2: heaps of protein, heaps of fiber. Try and live as

961
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 2: clean as I can. Meditation is a big piece for

962
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,760
Speaker 2: me that daily just being able to calm my nervous

963
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 2: them calmed down is a critical component for me, so

964
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: they're kind and my sleep stuff, you know, make sure

965
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 2: I'm in bed by ten, you know, no screens an

966
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 2: hour before, you know, those simple kind of things. But

967
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 2: it's the nutrition, sleep and exercise of the big things

968
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:26,280
Speaker 2: for me nature as well. But something I've I've introduced

969
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:31,919
Speaker 2: over the last maybe five years is hobbies. So being

970
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 2: as busy as we are, I found I had family

971
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 2: because I was really committed to them. Fitness and health

972
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 2: and work, like I only had three things. And what

973
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 2: I started to do was introduce hobbies. So I used

974
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 2: to sing years ago in a band when I was

975
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 2: in my twenties to meet girls. That was the only reason,

976
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 2: and I just went screw, I'm going back to singing.

977
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 2: So I've got a singing teacher and every day I

978
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 2: practice singing, and it's it's just good for my soul.

979
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 2: The other thing is I'm really into cars, Like I

980
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 2: bloody love cars. And I bought a car that you

981
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 2: can take to the racetrack. So once a month I

982
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 2: go to the racetrack. I go to Easton Creek and

983
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 2: just drive around there as fast as humanly possible, and

984
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 2: I hang out with a bunch of guys and we

985
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 2: talk about tie pressure and suspension and yeah, because I

986
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 2: live with three women, like even my dog's a girl, right,

987
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:41,280
Speaker 2: And so my whole life is Taylor Swift hair products,

988
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 2: face products and pulling ridiculous amounts of hair out of drains,

989
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,919
Speaker 2: like I have pulled the frickin' animal out of there,

990
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 2: I swear to God. So once a month, I'm just

991
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 2: with a bunch of dudes. We're just talking about cars,

992
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's just the best thing. And what I

993
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 2: found is those hobbies have given back to me so much,

994
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 2: so it's almost like to not burn out, I had

995
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,439
Speaker 2: to do additional things rather than take things away. But yeah,

996
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 2: that's kind of what I do. And you know, I

997
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 2: have a really wonderful wife. She's just the best. So

998
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 2: that side of my life's really cool. But yeah, that's

999
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 2: me and just you know, hang out with friends and

1000
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 2: try to be social.

1001
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: Yeah awesome, And and I love the hobbies. But that

1002
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: what the Japanese referred to as that ikey guy. You

1003
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: just so, ekey guy is completely misrepresented in the West. Right,

1004
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: So when we get off this podcast, google Echi guy

1005
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: and click on images and you will see this thing,

1006
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: this van diagram come up and what you love, what

1007
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 1: the world needs, right right, I'm.

1008
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 2: Talking about that the other day, no, no, and.

1009
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 4: And everybody thinks that's what ikey guy is.

1010
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: But my wife has studied Japanese psychology and she's going,

1011
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 1: that's bullshit. This was just some guy and he's written

1012
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 1: a blog post right where that original velin diagram was

1013
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: about your purpose in life, and he had read something

1014
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: on Nicky Guy and he just took a guy and substituted.

1015
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 3: It, and it just his blog went all over the place.

1016
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: And I everybody talks about that vein diagram when it

1017
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: comes to inky Guy. But I had Professor Ken Mogi

1018
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 1: on my podcast, who's obviously a Japanese professor and has

1019
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: written a book on Nicky Guy, and he said that

1020
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: it's nothing to do with that. Ikey Guy is this

1021
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: concept about It's basically a hobby that you are really

1022
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: passionate about where time just kind of disappears and you

1023
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: do it for the love of doing it, not for

1024
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: a particular outcome.

1025
00:58:58,800 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 4: Right.

1026
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 1: So Kate Ken's said he's got lots of vicky guys.

1027
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 1: In one of his is getting up in the morning.

1028
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 1: I can't remember whether it's a tea or coffe and

1029
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: he makes it. You know, we're fully present, like the

1030
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: Japanese do. And then he sits down with a piece

1031
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: of chocolate and he drinks his tea or his coffee

1032
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: and he just saavers the moments.

1033
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 2: Right, and.

1034
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: It's such a cool cut. But lots of them, it's

1035
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 1: like growing their own vegetables. Is a nicky guy, and

1036
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: they have lots of different ikey guys. And and really

1037
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: interesting you were talking about hobbies, because I've always had

1038
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: hobbies that were.

1039
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 4: Generally a bit active. You know.

1040
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: I had boxing, but yeah, getting punched into the field.

1041
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 2: Uh.

1042
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 4: And then you know, I played soccer for many years.

1043
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: And it was actually when when we moved here, Carl

1044
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: he said you need to go back and play soccer

1045
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: because she realized that I needed that outlet and I

1046
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: needed that that hobby. And and then not now that

1047
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: I'm a bit too old for soccer, I was playing

1048
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: a bit of golf but don't have the time for it.

1049
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 4: And and no, I'm just one of my little iky guys.

1050
00:59:59,600 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 4: Is tea.

1051
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: Get my dogs out for a walk in the morning

1052
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: in nature, and I love to go out just before sunrise,

1053
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: so it's.

1054
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 4: Dark when we're out and.

1055
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 1: Hit yeah, and just hearing the birds and for me,

1056
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 1: you know, one of my biggest sticky guys cooker burrs.

1057
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 4: When I hear cooker burrs, I.

1058
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 1: Just stop and I just have this big shit eating

1059
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: grin on my face. And often when we go out

1060
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: for the walk, and in fact I did it this

1061
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: morning and there was the cooker burrs going, and it's

1062
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: just that little walk in nature and seeing my dogs,

1063
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: you know, being so happy off the lead, really with

1064
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: their tails wagging, and it's that little moment to joy.

1065
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: Because I started doing it, I was putting my headphones

1066
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 1: in and then I thought, hold on a minute, I

1067
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: shouldn't be listening to a podcast or listening to this

1068
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: because I'm not being completely present.

1069
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 3: And then when I when I took that out.

1070
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: And then was just listening and looking, I found that

1071
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: that really grounds me in the morning, makes the dogs happy,

1072
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 1: it makes me happy.

1073
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 2: That's beautiful. It's such good advice, isn't it, Because there's

1074
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 2: something everyone can do.

1075
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just that's the thing It does doesn't

1076
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: have to be time consuming. It's just some little thing

1077
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: that you just love for actually doing. It can be

1078
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: doing bloody sudoku, it can be singing, it can be whatever.

1079
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: But I think it's so important because there's so many

1080
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: people will.

1081
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 4: Just resonate with you.

1082
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: Right, I have work, I have my fitness, and I

1083
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: have my family.

1084
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 4: But that's it, right, and we.

1085
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: All need that little achy guy which actually recharges us

1086
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: rather than recovery. When you talk about recovery, a lot

1087
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: of people think it's sitting with your feet up with

1088
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: a bottle.

1089
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 3: Of wine watching Netflix.

1090
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: It's not real, real recovery, right, that's relaxation, which is very,

1091
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: very different.

1092
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 3: So we do need to wrap up here.

1093
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: I just want to talk about what are you excited

1094
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: about in the future. What are you working on from

1095
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: a research perspective that's interesting, new book or whatever. What's

1096
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 1: floating your bault at dominic?

1097
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, we just did. We did one of the world's

1098
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 2: biggest studies on secondary trauma and its impact on educators.

1099
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 2: Far out the cheering, this just keeps coming, doesn't it.

1100
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 2: I'm just delivering. But like on a serious note, what

1101
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 2: we're seeing is more and more children are presenting trauma

1102
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 2: at school and educators having to deal with that, and

1103
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 2: we have less and less services. So they've basically got

1104
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 2: a kid that's gone through trauma and they're having to

1105
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 2: manage them and teach them and support them, and there's

1106
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 2: very little research done on that worldwide. So we just

1107
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 2: did one of the biggest studies in the world on that,

1108
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 2: and oh my gosh, the results are just staggering about

1109
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 2: how prevalent it is, the impact on them, and most importantly,

1110
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 2: we're looking at, well, what are the solution to that problem?

1111
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 2: So that's a really big something that's really juicing me

1112
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 2: at the moment. I feel very passionate about it, and

1113
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 2: I think, you know, you talk about meeting and purpose.

1114
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 2: It doesn't get much bigger than that. Writing the Kevin book. Yeah,

1115
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 2: that's kind of That's where we're at at the moment.

1116
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 2: That's my main focus right now.

1117
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 3: Very cool, Very cool.

1118
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,959
Speaker 4: So where can where can people.

1119
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 3: Go to find your books?

1120
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 4: You got four of them.

1121
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: So work working, I go to buy every single one

1122
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: of them. Where can people follow you to find out more?

1123
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 4: Yes?

1124
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 2: Well, just my website, which is doctor Adam Fraser dot com.

1125
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 2: Is in dr Adam Fraser dot com. Yeah, I mean

1126
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 2: I'm on all the socials and do all those things.

1127
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, just probably the website's the best place to go.

1128
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 3: M brilliant.

1129
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 1: Okay, we will send people there and get onto it.

1130
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 1: People because Adam is an absolute wealth of knowledge and

1131
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:09,919
Speaker 1: a true p academic in the sense of the word,

1132
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: someone who takes all that academic research and turns it

1133
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: into actionable, understandable things.

1134
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 4: I think that's your superpower and my developing superpower. So

1135
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 4: thank you for your time.