1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the Galligall people of 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: Hi team, and here I've just got back from climbing 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 2: Everest to taking a quick break from the podcast. In 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 2: the meantime, I thought this would be a great opportunity 7 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 2: to take a look back at some of my favorite 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: interviews with my fellow climbers. In this episode, you'll hear 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 2: from Kenton Call, Jim Davison, and Nimsday Perda. First up, 10 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: Kenton Call. Summating Everest is an impressive feat in itself, 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 2: but doing it eighteen times that takes a seriously hardcore individual. 12 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: Here's what Kenton had to say about it. 13 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 3: I found myself in that pit of kind of negative despair. 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 3: One of the consultants came in and said, right, I'm 15 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 3: going to operate on you tomorrow, and my immediate thought 16 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 3: was when can I climb? 17 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 4: And he just laughed and said, you're never climbing again. 18 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 3: You're never going to walk without stick, you know, And 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 3: that spiled me into that pit. But then about ten 20 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 3: days later, another consultant, John Handley. He said, I'm going 21 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 3: to rebuild your foot to the best of my ability, 22 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 3: and what you do after that is down to you 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 3: and no one else. 24 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 4: If you put the time and effort in you will walk. 25 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 3: You will And he said, I'm not going to say 26 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 3: you're going to climb, but it's down to you and 27 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: how much energy and bocus you put into your rehab. Yeah, 28 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 3: and those two different approaches from those from those two 29 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 3: different consultants, that was the tipping point from being in 30 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 3: the pit of despair and self woe is me to 31 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, actually I can do this, and 32 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 3: I will do this and I want to do this. 33 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 4: And that was really powerful. That was for me. And 34 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 4: I only realized this years later. 35 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, of course, not at the time. 36 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, not not at the time. 37 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: Penny finally drops. Doesn't it when you do something you 38 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 2: look back and you go wow, if I hadn't That's 39 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 2: why I ask you in those moments, you know where 40 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 2: your head was at and your mindset. But it's so 41 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: important for people to realize that we have a choice. 42 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 4: I mean, for a while it was awful. Yeah, we 43 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 4: have the choice. 44 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 3: And the other really powerful thing is is like negative 45 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 3: motivation and by this, I mean what do you stand 46 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 3: to lose? And when that first consultant said to me, 47 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 3: you're never going to climb again, I saw my community 48 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 3: as I knew it because I was so involved with 49 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 3: climbing everything. My girlfriend climbed, all my buddies climb, My 50 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 3: whole cohort were climbers. And I stood to lose my 51 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 3: community as I knew it. And that really scared me. 52 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 3: And that was a huge motivat because I didn't want 53 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 3: to lose that. I thought, I'm going to lose my community, 54 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 3: I've got nothing, and that that was one of the 55 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 3: big driving forces that was I'm going to get on 56 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 3: those parallel bars as soon as I can. 57 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 4: I'm going to do those extra hider sessions. 58 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 3: I'm going to go to the gym in the hospital 59 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 3: and yes, pump weights, do the pull downs, do the 60 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 3: There's certain exercises I could do build my core so 61 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: that when I could get back on my feet, recovery 62 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 3: is going to be that much quicker. 63 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: This is why I really wanted to touch on this 64 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: because it's fascinating because, like you said, we have a choice, 65 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: we have a we have a mindset as well, you know, 66 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: do we do we go down the negative mindset of 67 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: you know, being the victim, or do we do we 68 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: really you know, stand up and fight for what we 69 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: believe in, where we want to be, where we think 70 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: we should be in life. And yours was on the mountains. Now, 71 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 2: what was your first mountain after your injury that you climbed? 72 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: Do you remember it? And that was that a moment 73 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: where you thought, you know what, I'm back on track now? 74 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 4: Well, I suppose there's two things. 75 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: One is I got back into rock climbing, so that's 76 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 3: something I could do reds as soon as I could. 77 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 3: I was actually still in a wheelchair and I used 78 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 3: to take myself down to climbing wall in London that 79 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 3: was really steep and I could climb up just literally 80 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 3: just toe dapping, so just putting a little bit of 81 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: weight through my feet, you know, and then i'd be 82 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 3: lowered straight back down into the wheelchair. So you know, 83 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 3: I got back into that quite quickly. 84 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 2: That's hardcore, mate, That is hardcore. 85 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 4: But you say that, but I didn't want to lose 86 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 4: a community. 87 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 3: I just wanted to be around you know, my friends, 88 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 3: my cohort that those people that sort of elevated me. Yeah, 89 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 3: and if you can't go to the climbing wall, if 90 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 3: you can't climb, well, now your friends would come out 91 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 3: and see you. But at the weekends there or on 92 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 3: the Wednesday night, they're all down the climbing wall. And 93 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 3: that's where I wanted to be. I wanted to be 94 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 3: among those people that uplifted me and supported me as much. 95 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 4: As I could. 96 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 3: So my first proper foray back into the big mountains, 97 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 3: it was a dear friend of mine, Alan Powell, had 98 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 3: this idea of a new winter line in the Alms 99 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 3: and you know, we went down and we started to 100 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 3: climb on Christmas Day and it was a hard rough 101 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 3: It took us. 102 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 4: I know that three or four days. 103 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 3: I forget now, and the story behind it is all 104 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 3: a bit of an epic. But we managed to do it. 105 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: And that was my first real reintroduction into the mountains 106 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 3: and it kind of proved to myself that, yeah, I 107 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 3: had to approach things in a slightly different way. I 108 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 3: had given myself more time to do the walk ins 109 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 3: to get to the bottom. I would always have problems 110 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 3: moving away from a bila. So you strap yourself to 111 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 3: the mountain and you wait there for what can be 112 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 3: hours where your mate goes up and places all the 113 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 3: ropes and things like that, and moving away would be 114 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 3: hard because my ankles or my would seize up. So 115 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 3: those first movements were very clunky, but you learned to 116 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 3: adapt to what you have and that was wow, I 117 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 3: can do this and I will do this, and that 118 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 3: was the green light and it just started to snowball 119 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 3: from there. 120 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: When did Mount Everest first come into your mind? When 121 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: do you think, right, I'm going to I'm going to 122 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: take on there, I'm going to stand on the apex 123 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 2: of the world. 124 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 4: Not for a long time. 125 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 3: I mean it was late two thousand and three, and 126 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: so so after the accident. What I did, when I 127 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 3: realized I could do again, you know, I just was 128 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 3: consuming climbing, That's all I did. I was working on 129 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 3: building sites and I was just doing multiple expeditions, you know, 130 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 3: to green Learn, to the Himalayas, to Pakistan. I just 131 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 3: couldn't get enough of it. And it was on the 132 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 3: back of a quite a groundbreaking expedition to Nepal in 133 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 3: two thousand and three, and we with. 134 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 4: The three of us, and we climbed this big new route. 135 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 3: I think it was the second or third descent of 136 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 3: Annapurna three, so just under eight thousand meters. We were 137 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 3: on it for ten days. We ran out food, we 138 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 3: ran out of fuel, and you know, it took it 139 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 3: took all of us to a super dark place and 140 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 3: it actually it was really interesting. It actually affected our 141 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 3: friendships because we went so deep that when we came 142 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 3: out of it, we had issues sort of connecting with 143 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 3: one another again because we all had our own journey 144 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 3: in the darkness and that was that was quite enlightening 145 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 3: on how relationships can be affected by personal journeys. Even 146 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 3: though we were three of us together and in theory 147 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 3: going through the same journey, it was very very different 148 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 3: for three of us. Anyway, we got quite a lot 149 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 3: of the claim for that. And on the back of that, 150 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 3: one of the British guiding companies who I was already 151 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 3: working for, wrung me up and he just said, would 152 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 3: you entertain going to ever It's for us And I 153 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 3: had to think about it for about a nanosecond and 154 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 3: I just said yes, And that was the starting starting 155 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 3: point of it. I mean, Everiest had been beyond my 156 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: financial capability, and to be honest, it was something which 157 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 3: didn't interest me because it wasn't technical hard climbing. 158 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 4: It was just never in my in my wheelhouse. 159 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 3: And then it became so obvious that, you know, show 160 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 3: me one climber who can, honestly, hand on heart say 161 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 3: that at some stage in their career or their life 162 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 3: they haven't thought about going to Everest. And that was 163 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 3: probably November December two thousand and three. And I found 164 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 3: myself on the mountain for the first time spring two 165 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 3: thousand and four, feeling very out of my depth, not 166 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 3: quite knowing how it all works. Having a great Surdar, Yeah, 167 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 3: Surdar is like the head Shirpo, kind of tells you 168 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 3: how it all works. 169 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 4: And I loved it. 170 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 3: I absolutely adored it, and I just wanted more. 171 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: My next guest, faced unimaginable heartbreak, was doing the sport 172 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: he loved. Jim Davison was climbing Mount Rainier in nineteen 173 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: ninety two with his best mate Mike, when tragedy struck. 174 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 2: He shared what happened on this horrific day with myself. 175 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 6: So we're moving together, and I was probing with my 176 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 6: ice x as we had been for tens of thousands 177 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 6: of times over the last three or four days, and 178 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 6: I I probed a head, and the snow looked solid, 179 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 6: and it felt solid, and I stuck my axe in it. 180 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 6: It firmed up in the snow. But when I took 181 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 6: that next step and put my foot forward, my foot 182 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 6: sank in up to my shin and then up to 183 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 6: my knee. And at first I thought it was just 184 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 6: soft snow and it'll firm up underneath my foot, But 185 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 6: that's not what happened. Suddenly I started accelerating and I 186 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 6: realized I was no longer standing on a solid glacier. 187 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 6: I was standing on a big, weak snowbridge going across 188 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 6: a huge crevasse, and that snowbridge was starting to collapse 189 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 6: beneath my feet. 190 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: And that happens within the split second, right split second. 191 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 6: Absolutely, I didn't even think about it. I just I 192 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 6: actually heard myself yelling falling. That would give Mike a 193 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 6: chance to drop to the snow and dig in with 194 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 6: his ice axe and catch my fall. But I couldn't 195 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 6: even turn around because this was all happening so fast. 196 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 6: And immediately I sunk up to my waist and I 197 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 6: tried to slam my axe onto the surface of the snow, 198 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 6: and the pick went in all the way to the 199 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 6: head of the axe, which means a really deep burial 200 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 6: in the snow. But it's about noontime now on June 201 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 6: twenty first, the longest day of the year, and the 202 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 6: top snow was all wet and soft, and my ice 203 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 6: axe pick just cut right through the snow like a 204 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 6: like a knife through butter. And I realized I couldn't 205 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 6: stop myself. And then all of a sudden, my head 206 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 6: went underneath the snowbridge and everything went dark, and I 207 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 6: realized I was inside the crevasse and accelerating into the mountain. 208 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 5: Wow. 209 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: So this happens in a split second. I know it 210 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 2: all too well. Your goes in, you go down to 211 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 2: your knee, and you just think, do you know what, 212 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: I've got a bit of tough snow in front of me. 213 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: I'm steady, I'm just going to plow through. Then whack. 214 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 2: Before you know it, you're completely covered. So you're in 215 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 2: the crevass and you're completely covered. How do you communicate 216 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: with Mike? 217 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 6: Well, at this point, we're in two different worlds. I'm 218 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 6: inside the crevasse and there's just a little man size 219 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 6: hole about two feet across that had collapsed beneath my feet. 220 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 6: The rope goes up through that hole and back to Mike. 221 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 6: So I'm plummeting vertically into the darkness. I'm swinging my 222 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 6: ice ACKs around trying to hook the side walls, and 223 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 6: I couldn't reach either sidewall. And I realized, oh, this 224 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 6: is a big crevasse. And I knew my partner, Mike 225 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 6: would be digging in because he's so well trained, and 226 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 6: I know he was digging in. I wasn't going super fast, 227 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 6: but my brain started guessing how far and I'd gotten. 228 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 6: I couldn't talk to Mike because he was above the 229 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 6: snow and I'm below it. And I started picking up speed, 230 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 6: and my brain guess I'd gone twenty feet in thirty 231 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 6: feet in, and I thought that's not right. Mike should 232 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 6: have stopped me by now. Then my brain guesses forty feet. 233 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 6: I thought forty feet were only separated by about fifty 234 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 6: feet of rope. I thought, come on, Mike, stop me, 235 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 6: stop me. I felt the rope jerk once and I 236 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 6: slowed down and I almost stopped, and then I accelerated 237 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 6: twice as fast into the darkness. Now I didn't know 238 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 6: what that meant at the time. I was just overwhelmed 239 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 6: with the sensations, and I couldn't figure out what was happening. 240 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 6: But I know now what happened, which was my partner. 241 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 6: Mike did his job, and he dug in to the 242 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 6: snow and slowed me down for the first fifty feet 243 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 6: as I fell into the crevas But as I went deeper, 244 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 6: the rope pulled Mike closer and closer to the lip 245 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 6: of the crevasse, and the same wet snow that caused 246 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 6: me to fall into the carvas first place wouldn't let 247 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 6: Mike stop, and he got pulled over the lip of 248 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 6: the crevass, pulled into the crevas and tied together. The 249 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 6: two of us sailed deeper inside the mountain, into the darkness. 250 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: So when you're falling and Mike is obviously on the 251 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 2: other end of the rope, do you then see Mike 252 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 2: go past you in the crevass or do you stop together? 253 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: How does that pan out when you now know that 254 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 2: actually Mike is in the crevas with me. 255 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 4: Yeah. 256 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 6: When I thought I'd been falling first in the first 257 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 6: fifty feet because it felt fast to me, But once 258 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 6: Mike got pulled in and gravity had a full grip 259 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 6: on us, I just kept accelerating even faster and faster, 260 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 6: and that's when I knew that he had to be 261 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 6: in there with me. We were both free falling, and 262 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 6: I thought for sure we'd be dead. There's a word 263 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 6: for this, as you know, and climbing. When you're falling 264 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 6: a crevasse. Crevasses get skinnier and skinnier, narrow and narrow 265 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 6: as you go down, and when you fall in with 266 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 6: great velocity, you can get stuck in there, wedged in 267 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 6: like a cork in a wine bottle. And I thought, man, 268 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 6: we're going to get corked at the bottom of this thing. 269 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 6: And I hit one wall lightly with my shoulder and 270 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 6: I began to ricochet from one wall to the other, 271 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 6: getting beat up as I went, hitting my head, hitting 272 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 6: my back, and that probably took a little speed off me. 273 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 6: But all of a sudden I slammed to a stop. 274 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 6: The air burst out of my lungs kind of, and 275 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 6: you know, I lost my breath, and I looked up 276 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 6: and I saw a little point of light, and I 277 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 6: couldn't understand what the light was. In fact, it was 278 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 6: the surface of the snow far above my head. And 279 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 6: then all of a sudden, wet snow started falling on 280 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 6: my legs, and that was the snow bridge that collapse, 281 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 6: and the snow that might had sort of snow plowed 282 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 6: into that little hole. So all this huge, massive snow, 283 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 6: like a truckload of snow started falling down, started burying 284 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 6: me for my feet upwards. I panicked and tried to 285 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 6: sit up, but my pack was wedged corked between the 286 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 6: two ice walls that were about a foot and a 287 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 6: half apart from one another, so I couldn't sit up, 288 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 6: and I couldn't stand up. I was stuck facing upward, 289 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 6: lying down towards the surface as the snow just piled 290 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 6: up on me and up and up, and I was 291 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 6: afraid I was gonna get totally buried, so I put 292 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 6: my hands over my head like I'd learned an avalanche 293 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 6: survival class. And then a big impact hit with a 294 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 6: lot of weight. I figured out later that was Mike 295 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 6: and his pack and more snow. Mike landed on me, 296 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 6: and more snow fell on and if someone had been 297 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 6: standing there when it all stopped, it would have just 298 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 6: probably been a pile of snow with a little rope 299 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 6: and a little bit of gear sticking out. Because both 300 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 6: Mike and I were buried. 301 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: Wow, let's give me goose bumps, because I've done you know, 302 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 2: crevass training, and you know it all you know comes 303 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: together in training because it's all in a controlled and 304 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 2: safe environment. When everything comes to a holt and you're 305 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 2: there in complete silence, what's your next thought process? What 306 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 2: is going through your head in that very moment once 307 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: everything sort of stops and you realize, actually, I'm in 308 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: a real bad situation here. 309 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 6: Well, it was so overwhelming because it had all happened 310 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 6: in just a second or two. Falling through the crevass, 311 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 6: falling through the air, landing in the snow, the snow 312 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 6: falling on me. I thought to myself, I can't believe this. 313 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 6: I just survived the fall somehow, and I can still think. 314 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 6: Yet I'm trapped. I'm buried. I tried to push with 315 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 6: my arms and legs and I couldn't get out, and 316 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 6: that's when panics starting setting and I thought, I've got 317 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 6: to get out. I can't breathe. I had managed to 318 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 6: keep one hand in front of my face and I 319 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 6: had a small air pocket about the size of a football. 320 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 6: But I knew that wouldn't last very long. So I'm 321 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 6: trying to push and push, and I'd heard in the 322 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 6: avalanche survival class and avalanche training classes that if you 323 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 6: get buried by avalanche de breath, it's like being held 324 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 6: down by a thousand cold, wet hands, and that's what 325 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 6: it felt like to me. I could feel the cold 326 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 6: and the wetness and the moisture, but I was panicking 327 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 6: so bad on my chest because I knew that I 328 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 6: needed air any second now. And I pushed and pushed, 329 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 6: and eventually my good right arm burst out of the 330 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 6: snow and I swept away a little snow. I only 331 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 6: had about maybe ten inches of snow pile up on 332 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 6: my face, so I swept the snow a little bit 333 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 6: and spit out a snowball that had jammed in my 334 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 6: mouth and caught a few rushed breaths, and I realized 335 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 6: I was okay and I could breathe. But I was 336 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 6: buried right up to my chin, and I could see 337 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 6: a little bit of Mike's yere nearby, but in the darkness, 338 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 6: I couldn't see where he was. I knew he had 339 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 6: to be nearby because I knew he fell in with me, 340 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 6: and I yelled, Mike, Mike, where are you pull me 341 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 6: out before it freezes, because I'm thinking we're trapped in 342 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 6: this wet snow and this ice on both sides of us, 343 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 6: the glacial ancient ice. It's going to freeze the whole 344 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 6: thing in on a massive ice pretty soon. And I'd 345 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 6: hope that he'd go, oh, there you are, jam and 346 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 6: pull me out. But that's not what happened. When he 347 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 6: answered back, he didn't answer back with words. He answered 348 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 6: with a groan. I knew my friend and partner was 349 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 6: hurt really bad. 350 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 2: So you're literally eighty feet in this crevass. Just describe 351 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,719 Speaker 2: the environment. So you've managed to dig yourself out of. 352 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 2: I can only describe it as an ic coffin. You're 353 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: now free up to your waist. Mike is obviously at 354 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: arm's length away from you. Is that correct? And is there? 355 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 2: Can you see any light when you look up or 356 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 2: you completely in the darkness. 357 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 6: There was a little bit of light. I could see 358 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 6: shapes pretty well, and I could see a little bit 359 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 6: of colors. But the thing is, when sunlight goes through 360 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 6: the ice, the ice filters out the reds and yellow 361 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 6: and green wavelengths, so the only light that gets through 362 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 6: is blue and the deeper you go into crevass, the 363 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 6: bluer it gets. And this is the bluest crevasse I'd 364 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 6: ever seen. It was a deep, dark blue, deep dark 365 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 6: shadows everywhere, and I could feel the fear above me. 366 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 6: I could feel something looming above me, but frankly, I 367 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 6: was so focused on Mike. I didn't have time. And 368 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 6: I also think then I didn't have the courage to 369 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 6: look up. I knew that there was something really bad 370 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 6: up above our heads, but I had to keep doing 371 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,719 Speaker 6: CEPR and Mike. So I was doing compressions on him, 372 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,479 Speaker 6: and I was trapped behind him. I was basically reaching 373 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 6: with my arm around him from his back and touching 374 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 6: his chest with the palm in my hand. And I 375 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 6: knew it wasn't the right way to give compressions. I 376 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 6: was supposed to be above him to get both palms 377 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 6: and my body weight into it, but it's all I 378 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 6: could do. So I was behind him. I kept pressing 379 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 6: his chest back against my own and sort of squeezing 380 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 6: him between my one hand and my own breastbone, and 381 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 6: I kept it up for a long time, and then 382 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 6: I'd give him some breaths, and I cleared his airway 383 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 6: and I gave more breaths, and I kept it up 384 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 6: for a while, and I was starting to panic because 385 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 6: I was hoping that I would just give him two 386 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 6: or three breads and that he would suddenly wake up 387 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 6: and go, oh, I'm fine, Thanks for doing that, Jim. 388 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 6: But that's not what happened. And after maybe another twenty 389 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 6: minutes of CPR, I realized it wasn't coming around, and 390 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 6: I knew I was supposed to keep up going to 391 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 6: keep him alive, but also I knew I couldn't keep 392 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 6: it up forever because I'm still trapped in the snow 393 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 6: and it's going to freeze solid, and one person can't 394 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 6: do CPR for hours or days. It just doesn't work. 395 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 6: But I kept going for a while longer, and I 396 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 6: checked vitals the second time, and I still didn't feel anything, 397 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 6: and I finally had to stop, and I knew my 398 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 6: good friend and partner Mike was deceased, and my head 399 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 6: just dropped onto his chest. My chin started quivering, and 400 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 6: fear and water started filling my eyes up, and I 401 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 6: was just ready to give up. I thought, Mike's the 402 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 6: better climbery ear. If he's dead, I'm going to be 403 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 6: dead soon too. And I felt like just given up 404 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,479 Speaker 6: before I could even get the courage to look up 405 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 6: and see where we. 406 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 2: Were and WCE, all, this is happening. You're still attached 407 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 2: to him on a rope. Aren't you us still attached 408 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 2: together like an umbilical cord was you're giving the CPR 409 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: while you're doing everything. 410 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 5: Is that correct? 411 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 6: Absolutely, we're still a team. We're still tied together. And 412 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 6: that rope was all weaving in and out of the 413 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 6: snow pile that Mike and I were still buried in, 414 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 6: and he was sort of on top of me. But 415 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 6: the rope goes in and out of the snow, and 416 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,959 Speaker 6: it's all starting to get wet from water dripping from above, 417 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 6: and I can feel the cold emanating out of the 418 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 6: ice walls. They were only about two feet apart where 419 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 6: we were. We were in a little pile of snow 420 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 6: about six or seven feet long and about two feet wide, 421 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 6: and I assumed we were on the bottom of the crevass, 422 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 6: because that made sense. We fell to the bottom, And 423 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 6: even though I was ready to give up and start crying, 424 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 6: I had a little voice in the back of my 425 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 6: head that was like, you've got to get out, get 426 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 6: out of the snow before you freeze in, and I 427 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 6: got this rush of panic again. So I started thrashing 428 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 6: at the snow and I dug my way out. It 429 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 6: took me twenty minutes. I tried to rush at my 430 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 6: knee torqued. I was buried underneath a piece of ice 431 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 6: and the pack. And as soon as I got out, 432 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 6: I got above Mic and I could do impressions the 433 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 6: right way. So I started in again, but it had 434 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 6: been I don't know, forty minutes by now since i'd 435 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 6: heard her breathe, and it didn't bring him back. Then 436 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 6: again my head dropped on his chest. And then I 437 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 6: began to think about the question that you asked, Where 438 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 6: are we? What's above us? And I was very fearful, 439 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 6: but I kind of sat up on my knees and 440 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,239 Speaker 6: started looking up, and the ice walls were about two 441 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 6: feet apart were where we were. Then they spread out 442 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 6: to about three and four feet apart from one another, 443 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 6: and the angle was about seventy degrees and then eighty degrees, 444 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 6: and then I looked up up and up the walls 445 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 6: were dead vertical, and they got out to about six 446 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 6: feet apart from one another. And then I looked up 447 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 6: up up and way up top the walls started overhanging 448 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 6: to come back together. And that's where the snowbridge was 449 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 6: at the top of the crevasse, and that hole in 450 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 6: the snowbridge, that way back to the world was about 451 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 6: eighty feet above our heads. And I said, in a 452 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,959 Speaker 6: quivering voice, So, man, Mike, we are in trouble. We 453 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 6: are in big, big trouble. I had no idea how 454 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 6: we could ever get out of that. 455 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 2: I want to ask you a really difficult question. You 456 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: attached to your buddy, you realize that he's you know, 457 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 2: he's no longer with you. You look up and you think, right, 458 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 2: I've got to get out of it. One, you know, 459 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 2: I've got to get out of here, to tell our 460 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 2: story to to you know, get to safety so we 461 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 2: can potentially get Mike's body back. Three you know, you know, 462 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 2: hopefully one of us will live to to live on 463 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 2: the legacy of one another. But that moment when you 464 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 2: realize he's gone and you have to unclip from your partner, 465 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 2: almost leaving him there, that must have been one of 466 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 2: the toughest decisions in your life. 467 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 6: It was. It was the symbolism of unclipping from him 468 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 6: was too great partners are supposed to take care of 469 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 6: each other in the mountains, in life, in the military, 470 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 6: we don't leave people behind. I couldn't bring Mike back 471 00:22:58,200 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 6: from the dad. I knew that, but he was still 472 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 6: my partner and still my responsibility. So as I started 473 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 6: slowly trying to figure out how I might be able 474 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 6: to climb this wall, I didn't really believe I could 475 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 6: because I was a good ice climber, but not world class, 476 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 6: and back then in nineteen ninety two, nobody was climbing 477 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 6: overhanging ice like that, certainly not me. We had straight 478 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 6: shafted and straight pick tools. Back then it was just 479 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 6: beyond even the best pros in the world. So I 480 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 6: had to untie him at one point, but I never 481 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 6: wanted to leave him unanchored, so I worked the system 482 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 6: out of using a second anchor. I put an ice 483 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 6: crew into the wall and I anchored his body to that, 484 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 6: and then I had to take the rope off him 485 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 6: because I was going to need the full rope to 486 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 6: climb out. But before I started that climbing, I again 487 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 6: tied Mike back into the end of the rope. So 488 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 6: before I even started climbing, I figured I had one 489 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 6: hundred and fifty feet rope between my body and his, 490 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 6: and we were still a team, and I was going 491 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 6: to have to make it out of there on that 492 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 6: rope because that's all the rope I had. I refused 493 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 6: to start climbing untied to my partner, so that I 494 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 6: worked out a complicated system to make sure he was 495 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 6: always secured and that we were still connected. And as 496 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 6: you can tell, it's an emotional memory, but I think 497 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 6: it was part of what the strength that I needed 498 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 6: to start climbing, because I wasn't climbing out just for me. 499 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 6: I was climbing out for Mike. Because my friend is 500 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 6: just killed his life to save mine. I couldn't not 501 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 6: have the courage to even try and finish the job. 502 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 6: So I think staying connected Mike was critical to me 503 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 6: starting and later on when I ran out of strength 504 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 6: and confidence on the wall, several times I would pull 505 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 6: on the rope and feel Mike's body down below, stretching 506 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 6: with the dynamic climbing cord, and that would remind me 507 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 6: that I was climbing not just for me, but for 508 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 6: him too, and for his family, so I could look 509 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 6: them in the eye and tell them what happened. So 510 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 6: staying connected with your partners in this case physically through 511 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 6: a rope or emotionally is critical to doing your best 512 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 6: even after those partners are gone. 513 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 2: My final guest is a man I'm lucky enough to 514 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 2: cool a really good friend. 515 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 4: Nin's day. 516 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 2: Perjea and I go back twins two years, and he 517 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 2: was the one that actually gave me the nudge to 518 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 2: climb K two. Here's a story for my interview with 519 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: him earlier this year. Let's quickly touch on K two winter, 520 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 2: because that was mission impossible and you made it possible. 521 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: And where when are we going to see that come 522 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 2: into light? And when are we going to see that 523 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: hit our screens? 524 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 5: You know, hopefully hopefully soon. 525 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 7: What we managed to do as a team together but 526 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 7: also as a leadership. You know, of course I had 527 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 7: all my SAP has really paid well, and arguably I 528 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 7: could be the first person to be there, and perhaps, 529 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 7: you know, if I plan it for my own glory, 530 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 7: on my success, on my name and all that, and 531 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 7: that's how the whole expedition has been in the past, 532 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 7: you know. 533 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 5: But I'm a man of fairness and I always believe that, 534 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 5: you know, since we all are working together. That why 535 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 5: we don't take and sere equal success, equal name, equal glory. 536 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 4: And it was the. 537 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 5: Only mountain in the world that was never climbing the winter. 538 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 7: You you named whatever, the best mountaineer in the world, 539 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 7: you guys, you name it. 540 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 5: They all have tried it. Nobody made it. You know, 541 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 5: it's not accessible. 542 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 2: K two isn't accessible at the best of times, let 543 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 2: alone in winter. 544 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 5: You know, even yeah you can't. 545 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not accessible. Sometimes you can't even access the 546 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 2: mountain in summer. What I loved is that viral moment 547 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 2: of you on K two winter with your Nippolice team 548 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 2: walking to the summit hand in hand, cuddling together, singing 549 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 2: the national l anthem. 550 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 3: Is that right. 551 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 2: To the very summit. What a moment, What a life defining, 552 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 2: changing moment in the community that Nepole absolutely deservely cherished 553 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 2: from that. 554 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 7: Oh bro, you know that was like, you know, I 555 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 7: still remember, like, and as we gather around and then 556 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 7: our last climber wasn't that far as well, you know, 557 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 7: so so we all gather around and. 558 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 5: As we walked to the summit, I think because every 559 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 5: soul feel really respected and there was equal zue. I 560 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 5: didn't even care about the view. 561 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 8: And it was just that energy, you know, because most 562 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 8: of the guys were in tears, you know, when we're 563 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 8: like you know, you know, and when we see it, 564 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 8: and it was a so much power of spirit, power 565 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 8: of happiness, power of fairest, power of serving the zooe. 566 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 7: And that's when we again put Nepal into global map, 567 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 7: you know. 568 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 5: So yeah, it was, it was. It was the best thing. 569 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 7: But also what I managed to do here and was 570 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 7: when I did the fourteen Pigs squait away. After the documentary, 571 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,959 Speaker 7: the Western climbers started criticizing me, and I know, quite right, 572 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 7: but David Goggin says that you know, if you if 573 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 7: you even walk into the water, they will say he's 574 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 7: walking in the water because he cannot stream, you know, 575 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 7: so anyway, so but it had got to me, so 576 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 7: I was like, okay, you know, so at this point, 577 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 7: before I did the summit brief, we check the weather. 578 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 7: I read the weather out. Now here's the weather team. 579 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 7: We need to go and climb this. But one team 580 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 7: member among us has to climb at this one. At 581 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 7: this one has to go without oxygen. And I asked 582 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 7: individually and the team said no. 583 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 5: And at this point, the team didn't knew what I 584 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 5: was going through. 585 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 7: So I had a first bite on, a first snip 586 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 7: on my three fingers hair and three fingers heir. But 587 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 7: I was wearing small gloves and I was hiding it 588 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 7: because as a leader, you want you don't want to 589 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 7: show the weakness, you know. But at this point, because 590 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 7: you know, little things matter on the big mountains, and 591 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 7: those little mindset is the difference between success and the failure, and. 592 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 5: I didn't want it to show them any weakness, you know, exactly. 593 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 7: Exactly, So at this point, for the first time, I 594 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 7: take my gloves out and I said, guys, look my 595 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 7: three fingers here, three fingers here, I have a first nip. 596 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 7: I would one hundred percent go and climb this without oxygen. 597 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 7: But if I go without oxygen, is you know, you 598 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 7: know your body feel colder, you know, and I already 599 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 7: have frost snip. That means you know, I'll go into 600 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 7: frostbite and I wouldn't be able to use this hand 601 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 7: and I probably die. 602 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 5: So can anybody take this responsibility? 603 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 7: Because I knew that Western community will criticize. Again, we 604 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 7: just need to do this clean and cut, no criticize, 605 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 7: because it doesn't matter what you did. The Western media 606 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 7: is so big that you know you cannot go and 607 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 7: keep telling everybody. 608 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 5: So I just wanted one percent. Don't clean so. 609 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: So big and so brutal. 610 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, and nobody again, nobody step up again? 611 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 2: You know. 612 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 5: For me, I was like, Okay, now I have to 613 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 5: do it. 614 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 7: And I was so much worried because how I keep 615 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 7: up with this guy without oxygen and so that we 616 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 7: climb together. 617 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 5: And by this point and I had. 618 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 7: Faced so much the real brutality, the reality of a 619 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 7: thousand meters where you know, you don't know who is 620 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 7: bought by, who's who's who's there, you know, So I 621 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 7: was thinking, if I'm lit by the by the ten 622 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 7: meters point, then somebody's just gonna go and take all 623 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 7: the glory and the equality. 624 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 5: We're gonna won't be there and you know all that stuff. 625 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 7: So I was like, okay, you know, but anyway, you know, 626 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 7: I was right at the front, managed to stop and. 627 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 5: And the first post we made it. 628 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 7: And if this is what the Special Forces teach to anticipation, 629 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 7: you know, we we we talked about the team, and 630 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 7: the first post was about the team. 631 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 5: And guess what is spread away? 632 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 7: The Western community saying that, oh, it's not a great 633 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 7: because it was with oxygen and all that. I'm just 634 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 7: waiting there. I was like, okay, and I know even wanted. 635 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 5: To tell this story, but I saw some of the 636 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 5: comments me valuing the men, and those people who were 637 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 5: criticizing were some of my Western friends who had submitted 638 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 5: mountains on the lines Me and you fixed yeah, and 639 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 5: it really hurt me. 640 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 7: And and after two days off, you know, like getting 641 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 7: criticide to make Mugie, you know, dear brother Kim and Nims. 642 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 7: You just need to say it because it's too much now, 643 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 7: we just need to kill the negative day. And that's 644 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 7: when I said, okay, you I have done with that oxygen. 645 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 7: But yeah, this story is so powerful. But it was 646 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 7: again with the purpose, you know, So that's what it 647 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 7: got us there. 648 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me for this special best Off episode. 649 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 2: I'll be back with new episodes soon, but in the meantime, 650 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 2: if you'd like to catch up and hear these three 651 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 2: powerful conversations in full, you'll find links to them in 652 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 2: the show notes. I'm at Middleton, See you in the 653 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 2: next episode.