1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,080
Speaker 1: If you wanted to wrap up my over decade of

2
00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:05,800
Speaker 1: work here into one mantra, it's this. The antidote to

3
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:10,960
Speaker 1: impulsiveness is forethought. It is fundamentally an impulse control problem.

4
00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,640
Speaker 1: It's not a moral failing, it's not a character flaw.

5
00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,800
Speaker 1: There's nothing broken about you or your brain. It's simply

6
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:18,959
Speaker 1: that we haven't learned the skill set to deal with

7
00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,400
Speaker 1: impulse control. So we're constantly looking for something to take

8
00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,320
Speaker 1: our minds off of that discomfort. Right, So we drink

9
00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,080
Speaker 1: it away, we scroll it away, we click it away,

10
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,080
Speaker 1: we look for something to pacify that. But if you

11
00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,720
Speaker 1: leave it to the last minute, they're gonna get you.

12
00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,639
Speaker 1: It's too late, Right. If the cigarettes in your hand,

13
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,360
Speaker 1: you're gonna smoke it. If the chocolate cake is on

14
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:39,960
Speaker 1: the fork on it's way to your mouth, you're gonna

15
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:41,839
Speaker 1: eat it. If you sleep with your cell phone every

16
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:43,559
Speaker 1: night on your nightstand, you're gonna pick it up first

17
00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,080
Speaker 1: thing in the morning, because it's too late. If you

18
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:47,720
Speaker 1: leave it to the last minute, of course, they're gonna

19
00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,440
Speaker 1: get you. And I think that's why most people feel

20
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 1: like technology is controlling them, and the algorithms and all

21
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,160
Speaker 1: this evil stuff, because that's when it's already in your hand.

22
00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,959
Speaker 1: That's too late. But the antidote is forethought.

23
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,480
Speaker 2: How much time do you spend doing stuff that, if

24
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,399
Speaker 2: you were really honest, you would rather that you didn't do,

25
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 2: you know.

26
00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,600
Speaker 3: Stuff that you never intended to do. But look, hey,

27
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,200
Speaker 3: look here you are. It's been half an hour.

28
00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,800
Speaker 2: If you're anything like me, your answer to that question

29
00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,560
Speaker 2: is somewhere between quite.

30
00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 3: A bit, a bit more than I actually like to admit,

31
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 3: and can we tell about something else?

32
00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,600
Speaker 2: Right? Happily? Questions like this make a case for the

33
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,360
Speaker 2: vital importance of being in control of your attention, of

34
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 2: being what my guest today author near Aar would call indestractable.

35
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,840
Speaker 3: Which also happens to be the name of his second book.

36
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,440
Speaker 2: If you don't feel that you're in control of your time,

37
00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:40,720
Speaker 2: if you feel like you get to the end of

38
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,319
Speaker 2: the day you've got no idea where it went, You

39
00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,319
Speaker 2: feel like that has been the story of your life

40
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:44,679
Speaker 2: for like.

41
00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:46,840
Speaker 3: Way too long. I'm actually quite excited for you to

42
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:47,160
Speaker 3: hear this.

43
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,040
Speaker 2: It's got some really interesting, very valuable steps and insights

44
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,000
Speaker 2: to hopefully help you change all that, but also to

45
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:54,760
Speaker 2: figure out exactly what.

46
00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,559
Speaker 3: You would rather be spending your time on.

47
00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,960
Speaker 2: So your time is meaningfully spent in the first place.

48
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,960
Speaker 2: I do have, though, once more distraction before we get

49
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:04,960
Speaker 2: to the conversation, because I do need to play some ads.

50
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 3: We're back in a moment.

51
00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,160
Speaker 2: Good. This is better than yesterday, making it better every

52
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,960
Speaker 2: single week since twenty thirteen. My name Joshia Ginsburg, and

53
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,160
Speaker 2: I'm very glad you're here. Thank you so much for listening.

54
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,480
Speaker 2: Before we get to near al, I just didn't want

55
00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,320
Speaker 2: to remind you that tickets for the next Story Club

56
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,919
Speaker 2: gig are on sale right now. It is this Sunday

57
00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,680
Speaker 2: at the Factory Theater in Marrickville. It's at Valentine's Day special.

58
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,040
Speaker 2: Rob Carlton and his wife Ado Ferrera are going to

59
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,680
Speaker 2: tell stories, as is Mark Sutton and Zoe Norton Lodge,

60
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,400
Speaker 2: who also happened to be married. So I'm very kind

61
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,800
Speaker 2: of looking forward to the dueling the different versions of

62
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 2: romantic stories from whose husbands and wives there, as well

63
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 2: as myself and fellow gold Logi loser Sean Macaliff. Yes,

64
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,240
Speaker 2: Sean mother fucking Macliffe is going to do story Club

65
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,200
Speaker 2: at the Factory Theater. Tickets are cheap and you can

66
00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:55,959
Speaker 2: get the link in the show notes.

67
00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,640
Speaker 3: And that's also where the sub stack is.

68
00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,400
Speaker 2: Lots of good He's there, lots of great ways to

69
00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,720
Speaker 2: stay in touch, send a recipe, ask a question.

70
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:02,160
Speaker 3: Whatever.

71
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 2: Near Al is here. He's an Israeli born American author, lecturer,

72
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 2: investor a He's well renowned for his expertise in behavioral

73
00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,519
Speaker 2: design and habit formation his book Hooked. It's actually quite

74
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 2: hard to overestimate the enormous influence his work has had

75
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,240
Speaker 2: on the user experience and product design place in the

76
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,760
Speaker 2: digital space. Like if you find yourself using an app

77
00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,280
Speaker 2: that keeps you on there long after you thought you

78
00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:27,840
Speaker 2: were going to put it down, the chances of other

79
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,160
Speaker 2: people who designed that app are using Near's four phase

80
00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,160
Speaker 2: model of habit formation, which is trigger action, variable, reward,

81
00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,040
Speaker 2: and investment. In that book he also gets into the

82
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,240
Speaker 2: ethics of building apps which people can't put down, and

83
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,000
Speaker 2: in many ways, the book he's here to talk about today, Indestractable,

84
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 2: is the antithesis of that. His mind bogglingly smart, was

85
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,160
Speaker 2: delightful to have in our home, even if it was

86
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,800
Speaker 2: rather warm and steamy in the middle of summer when

87
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,920
Speaker 2: he joined me here in Sydney, I hope you'll learn

88
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,520
Speaker 2: a lot as I did from listening.

89
00:03:55,200 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 3: To near al. Really grateful. I wanted to talk to

90
00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:02,360
Speaker 3: you today because.

91
00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,840
Speaker 2: The impact that you've had on our society through your

92
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,680
Speaker 2: definitely your first book and also through your second. By

93
00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,520
Speaker 2: the next the people that cited your first book as yeah,

94
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,840
Speaker 2: we read that and then we made this, do you think, like,

95
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,760
Speaker 2: do you think about what impact that's had.

96
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very proud of of what it's done. I'm

97
00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,080
Speaker 1: in the book now. Is it's second edition now and

98
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 1: sold over half million copies, and yeah, it's read worldwide,

99
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 1: and I hear from people all the time, from all

100
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,120
Speaker 1: kinds of companies and industries I never would have imagined

101
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,160
Speaker 1: who are using it to build healthy habits and users' lives.

102
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm thrilled. I can't be. I mean, I

103
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,279
Speaker 1: wrote it for me, to be honest. You know, I

104
00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,159
Speaker 1: don't write books about what I know. I write books

105
00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,440
Speaker 1: about what I want to know. And so when I

106
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,520
Speaker 1: didn't have the answer to this question of how do

107
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,360
Speaker 1: you build have performing products at least with the first book,

108
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 1: and then the same happened with Indistractable, the second book,

109
00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 1: you know, I followed my curiosity. I wanted to figure

110
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:54,680
Speaker 1: out the answer.

111
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,920
Speaker 3: The getting ready for chatting with you today.

112
00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,920
Speaker 2: I was looking back through history at times when I mean,

113
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,599
Speaker 2: you broke it down into those the four steps, the trigger,

114
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,839
Speaker 2: the trigger, the action, the variable, reward, and the investment,

115
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,719
Speaker 2: and going back through time seeing how I mean you've

116
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,320
Speaker 2: been able to condense it and.

117
00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 3: Put it into four words. But this sort of sucks

118
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,839
Speaker 3: me going on for eons.

119
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh absolutely, And I wish I could say I

120
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,520
Speaker 1: invented it, but in fact I stole it. I went

121
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,160
Speaker 1: to look at what was it about the world's most

122
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,040
Speaker 1: habit forming tech companies and trying to figure out what

123
00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 1: were the common elements between Facebook and Twitter and WhatsApp

124
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,599
Speaker 1: and Slack and Snapchat and Instagram and Amazon. What is

125
00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,080
Speaker 1: it about these companies that makes their products so sticky?

126
00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,480
Speaker 1: And the idea was, you know, they already know these secrets.

127
00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,719
Speaker 1: They don't need my book. They know. I wanted to

128
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,839
Speaker 1: steal their secrets so that I could democratize it for

129
00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,719
Speaker 1: the rest of us. So someone building a fitness app

130
00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,960
Speaker 1: like fitbod used the hook model to get people hooked

131
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,040
Speaker 1: to exercise. Du Lingo use the hook model to get

132
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,440
Speaker 1: people hooked to learning a new language. So that was

133
00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,360
Speaker 1: really the intent of the product of the book and

134
00:05:58,440 --> 00:05:58,960
Speaker 1: my research.

135
00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,640
Speaker 2: If I had my machine over here, I would play

136
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,520
Speaker 2: that little noise that Joe Lingo makes, and you know,

137
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,760
Speaker 2: thousands of people go exactly is very publican, you know,

138
00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,040
Speaker 2: because it had to exactly you know, haptic feedback is

139
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:12,960
Speaker 2: and the noise.

140
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,720
Speaker 3: It's all. It's very interesting. And I have a different brain.

141
00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:17,640
Speaker 2: You know.

142
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,320
Speaker 3: When I got diagnosed, doctor Connor said, well.

143
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:21,800
Speaker 2: What do you think you've got the career? God, you know,

144
00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:23,240
Speaker 2: this is the brain you've got. You just need to

145
00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,719
Speaker 2: manage it when it's you know, like all right. So

146
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,120
Speaker 2: that's why my phone hasn't made a ring or a

147
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,680
Speaker 2: buzz or a ping since two thousand and three.

148
00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:32,440
Speaker 1: I love that you bring this up because I think

149
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 1: the popular perception is that technology is doing this to us,

150
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,120
Speaker 1: that it's all technology's fault. That it must be Facebook,

151
00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:40,880
Speaker 1: it must be Instagram, it must be you know what's

152
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,480
Speaker 1: in the news. It must be Donald Trump, it must

153
00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,640
Speaker 1: be Twitter. It must be all these things happening to us.

154
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:46,279
Speaker 1: And I love the fact that you you know, you

155
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,280
Speaker 1: took us all the way back to two thousand and three.

156
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,440
Speaker 1: But it goes way way far than that, even right,

157
00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,719
Speaker 1: because people used to say the same thing about television

158
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,320
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, you know, they call this

159
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,279
Speaker 1: all couch potatoes. And before that, in my dad's generation,

160
00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,839
Speaker 1: it was the radio was melting people's brains. And before that,

161
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,800
Speaker 1: I mean literally things like the bicycle was comic books,

162
00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,600
Speaker 1: of course, comic books, rock and roll music all the way.

163
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,240
Speaker 1: In fact, Socrates, the Greek philosopher, right, they said the

164
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 1: written word was the worst technology that it would quote

165
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 1: in feeble men's minds. So I think it's really important

166
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,440
Speaker 1: to take a step back and realize, number one, this

167
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,640
Speaker 1: is not new, and that number two, we do have

168
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,280
Speaker 1: agency that if you're looking for distraction, of course, it's

169
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,600
Speaker 1: easier than ever to find, but there is a lot

170
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,480
Speaker 1: we can do about it because people have been struggling

171
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,120
Speaker 1: with it forever. Right now, Plato said talked about acrasia,

172
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,440
Speaker 1: the tendency to do things against our better interest. And

173
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,720
Speaker 1: so if he was struggling with this twenty five hundred

174
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,480
Speaker 1: years ago, the root cause of the problem can't just

175
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,280
Speaker 1: be our devices. There's something else going on.

176
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,880
Speaker 2: But Plato wasn't working with haptic feedback and the duo

177
00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,800
Speaker 2: lingo noise, and you know an email has said, hey.

178
00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,880
Speaker 3: Near you know that amazing shirt that you bought, the

179
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 3: white one.

180
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,480
Speaker 2: Look, look there's only got two of these left, right,

181
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,920
Speaker 2: And if you don't buy it now, oh, hang.

182
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,040
Speaker 3: On to be like a one left now because the

183
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,040
Speaker 3: little pop up comes up. Now one's just gone. Right,

184
00:07:58,600 --> 00:07:59,440
Speaker 3: do I have to deal with that?

185
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,280
Speaker 1: And think of all this shit we don't have to

186
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,960
Speaker 1: deal with, right. Plato slept in a bed that was

187
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,120
Speaker 1: probably the finest in his time, and I'm sure he

188
00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,360
Speaker 1: had bedbugs and lice that I have a challenger now, Yes,

189
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,840
Speaker 1: exactly exactly, and he had he didn't have plumbing. I mean,

190
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 1: we live like kings just a few There would be

191
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,600
Speaker 1: no king one hundred two hundred years ago who wouldn't

192
00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,280
Speaker 1: gladly change and trade with us for a middle class

193
00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,360
Speaker 1: existence today. So I think it's important to keep a

194
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,240
Speaker 1: historical perspective that the knee jerk reaction is always to think, oh,

195
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:27,760
Speaker 1: this is the worst time in history, and look at

196
00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,640
Speaker 1: how hard things are today. Things are so easy to buy,

197
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 1: that things are so entertaining, that people, things are so engaging.

198
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 1: You can call anyone in the world at any time

199
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,880
Speaker 1: for free yep with video with why So here's the thing,

200
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,200
Speaker 1: this isn't a problem, it's progress, Yeah, right, that we

201
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,439
Speaker 1: need to take a step back and realize that these

202
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,199
Speaker 1: are the most first war problems you could ever have.

203
00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,040
Speaker 1: That because we leave live in such an age of abundance,

204
00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,920
Speaker 1: because we have all these things at our disposal, the

205
00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,719
Speaker 1: price of that progress is that we have to learn

206
00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,160
Speaker 1: some new ways of being. You know, Sophocles said it best.

207
00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,000
Speaker 1: The Greek philosophy said that nothing enters the life of

208
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,559
Speaker 1: mortals without a curse. So there's nothing vast, there's nothing,

209
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 1: there's nothing that is going to impact us that isn't

210
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,640
Speaker 1: also going to have some downsides. And Paul Verili, other philosopher,

211
00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,800
Speaker 1: had something similarly, said that you cannot invent the ship

212
00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,240
Speaker 1: without the shipwreck, and so of course we're going to

213
00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,679
Speaker 1: have a downside, Like are we surprised that something as

214
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,160
Speaker 1: vast as the Internet is going to have a lot

215
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:22,960
Speaker 1: of good and some bad?

216
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,960
Speaker 2: When I would did Muscuba colls yeas ago, they said

217
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,920
Speaker 2: every one of these rules about decompression, every scuba safety

218
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 2: rule has been written in blood, exactly because they learned

219
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,120
Speaker 2: along the way to figure out forty one minutes is e.

220
00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,800
Speaker 1: That's right, that's exactly right, and there is always a

221
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,400
Speaker 1: guinea pig generation and that's who we are. Right. On

222
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,679
Speaker 1: the other hand, the good news is that what do

223
00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,720
Speaker 1: we do. Do we stop sailing ships? No, we made

224
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,560
Speaker 1: ships safer. So what humankind has always done whenever there's

225
00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,640
Speaker 1: a technology that has the possibility of creating goods as

226
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,880
Speaker 1: well as bads is we do two things. We adapt

227
00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,439
Speaker 1: and we adopt. So adapt our last generation of technology

228
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 1: to make it better for the next generation. We adapt

229
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,880
Speaker 1: the technology. So we made ships safer. We sail more

230
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,640
Speaker 1: ships today than at any time in human history. When

231
00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,240
Speaker 1: was the last shipwreck you heard of? It's very rare, right,

232
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,520
Speaker 1: it's not because we stopped sailing ships, just like we

233
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,199
Speaker 1: shouldn't stop using technology.

234
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,280
Speaker 3: The wheel, it's it's not designed.

235
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,559
Speaker 1: But even with the human error, you know, we sail

236
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,120
Speaker 1: far more ships and have far fewer accidents because we

237
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,640
Speaker 1: made the technology better. So we shouldn't be fearful of

238
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,800
Speaker 1: the technology. We should be leaning into the technology to

239
00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,199
Speaker 1: make it better. And the second thing that we've always done,

240
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,280
Speaker 1: in addition to adapting, is we adopt. Right, we adopt

241
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,440
Speaker 1: new norms, new manners around how to use the technology

242
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,120
Speaker 1: so that we get the best of it without letting

243
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,160
Speaker 1: it get the best of us. So I remember when

244
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:44,760
Speaker 1: I was a kid. I grew up in the nineteen eighties.

245
00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 1: I was born in the seventies, but I remember the eighties,

246
00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,400
Speaker 1: and I remember in our household and everyone we knuse household,

247
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,800
Speaker 1: in the middle of their living room, they had an

248
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,120
Speaker 1: ash tray. Everybody we're about more or less the same age.

249
00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 3: My dad smarked one cigarettes at home.

250
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,200
Speaker 1: There you go. So even if you didn't smoke, so

251
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:02,920
Speaker 1: my parents might my dad's smoke, but he had given

252
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,040
Speaker 1: it up at this time. And I remember that we

253
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,840
Speaker 1: have had to have an ashtray because if someone else

254
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,560
Speaker 1: smoked in the early mid eighties, they would come to

255
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:11,280
Speaker 1: your house and just.

256
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,280
Speaker 3: Expect to light up.

257
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:14,960
Speaker 1: Now today that sounds ridiculous, right, If you tell that

258
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,520
Speaker 1: to a millennial, they'll laugh. Why did it change? Did

259
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 1: we pass a law? No, you could still smoke in

260
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,240
Speaker 1: someone's private residence. What change was? We have new norms,

261
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,440
Speaker 1: new manners. So I actually remember. So when my mom

262
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,160
Speaker 1: decided she didn't want that ashtray in the house anymore,

263
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:30,800
Speaker 1: and one of her friends came over and took out

264
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:32,319
Speaker 1: a pack of cigarettes and I was about to smoke.

265
00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,840
Speaker 1: She said, no, no, no, no, we are non smokers. Right, she

266
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,760
Speaker 1: used that identity. We are non smokers. If you would

267
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,760
Speaker 1: like to smoke, if you'd kindly go outside. This woman

268
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,400
Speaker 1: got so offended that you would ask her to go

269
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,400
Speaker 1: outside to smoke. Well today that's commonplace, right, of course

270
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,480
Speaker 1: you would smoke outside. You wouldn't smoke in someone's living room.

271
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,000
Speaker 1: So it takes people like my mom, who took a

272
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,240
Speaker 1: stand used a noun to describe themselves. I am a

273
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,760
Speaker 1: non smoker, which is why my book is titled Indiestractable.

274
00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,440
Speaker 1: Indistractable is meant to sound like indestructible. It is who

275
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,199
Speaker 1: you are identity. So now when we're going to have

276
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,640
Speaker 1: a conversation and I want us to be fully present

277
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,080
Speaker 1: both in body and mind, we might say, you know what,

278
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:07,600
Speaker 1: can you put away your phone because I want to

279
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,880
Speaker 1: actually check it? And you actually see the younger generation

280
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,240
Speaker 1: doing this already. Right, So when I give these big,

281
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,440
Speaker 1: expensive talks and someone hires me to help teach their

282
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 1: company to become in distracted with every sin, thank, I

283
00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,720
Speaker 1: appreciate that every sin. But the funny thing is that

284
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,760
Speaker 1: who is it in the room using their phone. Yeah,

285
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:23,920
Speaker 1: it's not the millennial.

286
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:24,240
Speaker 3: I always look.

287
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,720
Speaker 1: No, you know who it is. It's the boomer that

288
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,560
Speaker 1: hasn't gotten the message that you know what, using my

289
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,760
Speaker 1: device in the middle of a conversation is rude. That's

290
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,839
Speaker 1: the person who hasn't gotten the memo. The younger people,

291
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,800
Speaker 1: the younger generations, they've already learned this because they've adopted

292
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 1: these new norms, these new manners about how to use

293
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,559
Speaker 1: the technology. So I'm pretty optimistic.

294
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:45,000
Speaker 2: Actually, I've personally experienced my will being overpowered. I mean,

295
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,360
Speaker 2: like I said, like, I think about it a lot.

296
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,199
Speaker 2: As a sober person. I've had to think a lot

297
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:56,440
Speaker 2: about how impulsive behaviors and things have made choices for

298
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,360
Speaker 2: me that don't belong in the moment, things that I

299
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,719
Speaker 2: was doing automatically that were really bad for me and

300
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,720
Speaker 2: people around me. But I will notice now this is

301
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 2: what it is. I have tried getting a brick phone

302
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,360
Speaker 2: donet work. I've tried giving my wife my scream time

303
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,800
Speaker 2: pass code like I'm seven, didn't work.

304
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,040
Speaker 3: I've found one thing that did work, and it has

305
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 3: worked the last two weeks.

306
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,920
Speaker 2: Now. It's a magnet that sits on the whiteboard upstairs,

307
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,360
Speaker 2: and it's got a near field thing in it, and

308
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,920
Speaker 2: to unlock those apps, I actually have to walk upstairs

309
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,440
Speaker 2: and tap this thing. It's a physical thing external from

310
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,880
Speaker 2: me and that distance. I've got every app on my

311
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,560
Speaker 2: phone that is there to stop me from doing it,

312
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,520
Speaker 2: and none of them has worked except this thing.

313
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,160
Speaker 3: So I know what it is to be sucked in

314
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,160
Speaker 3: by this tech.

315
00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 2: Right.

316
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 3: Yes, I have agency, but sometimes it is way too late.

317
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,480
Speaker 1: What did you do when you started to marty eat

318
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,760
Speaker 1: or your drinking? How did you deal with cravings?

319
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,760
Speaker 2: I just had to think it through, all right, and

320
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,160
Speaker 2: that was the It gets easier, but the first kind

321
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,920
Speaker 2: of ninety days or so, it's pretty it's pretty tricky

322
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,320
Speaker 2: because you are, well, what do I do?

323
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:10,080
Speaker 3: The sun setting?

324
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that was my cue, Right, what do I do?

325
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,320
Speaker 2: It's eleven am that you know, I'm in my house

326
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,960
Speaker 2: by myself. My ex walked out the door.

327
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,600
Speaker 3: Okay, put internet gambling, bang bang bang bang bank.

328
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 1: I got to stay be there from man because that

329
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,640
Speaker 1: is so interesting. So that's step number one that I

330
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,600
Speaker 1: talk about, and for me, that was the biggest revelation,

331
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,600
Speaker 1: is to think about those internal triggers you said when

332
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,320
Speaker 1: you're ex walked out the door when you're all by yourself,

333
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,520
Speaker 1: when when things don't feel good, when they're not working

334
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,520
Speaker 1: the way you hope they will work. Yeah, it becomes

335
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,840
Speaker 1: your pacification debase. Oh yeah, it's it's an avoidant behavior.

336
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:45,280
Speaker 2: So I wanted to, you know, because I know this

337
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,000
Speaker 2: party of work is like, how do we tell the

338
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,440
Speaker 2: difference between this thing's distracting? Right, this is a distraction

339
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,720
Speaker 2: to me, or this is an avoidant behavior. I am

340
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,040
Speaker 2: doing this so I don't have to do something right, So.

341
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,480
Speaker 1: It's oliver what in behavior? So one of the misconceptions

342
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 1: that I had until I started this line of research

343
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,600
Speaker 1: was this myth of the carot and the stick. Right,

344
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:07,360
Speaker 1: everybody's heard it right, that everything we do is about

345
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,200
Speaker 1: the pursuit of pleasure and they avoids of pain. Very

346
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,200
Speaker 1: simple metaphor. Sigmund Freud said this. Jeremy Bentham said this.

347
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,600
Speaker 1: Now we know, through the miracle of fMRI technology, when

348
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,680
Speaker 1: we can actually see what's happening in the brain, we

349
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,760
Speaker 1: know it's not true. It's a nice metaphor. It's not

350
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 1: actually true that the way the reward system works is

351
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,200
Speaker 1: not about the pursuit of pleasure. It's only about the

352
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:34,960
Speaker 1: desire to escape discomfort, that even the desire to feel good, craving, wanting, lusting,

353
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:40,480
Speaker 1: hunger for the pleasure is it self psychologically destabilizing. So

354
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,600
Speaker 1: this is the most important thing you could possibly take

355
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,320
Speaker 1: away from my book, which is that distraction is not

356
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,960
Speaker 1: a character flaw. It's not a tech plot against you.

357
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,240
Speaker 1: You're not you know, nobody's hijacking your brain. It's not

358
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,520
Speaker 1: a broken brain. It's simply that you haven't learn how

359
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 1: to deal with discomfort. Because it turns out what we

360
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 1: now know is that the carrot is the stick. The

361
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,120
Speaker 1: carrot is the stick exactly because everything we want is

362
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,960
Speaker 1: itself something that feeling of want and craving that is

363
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,600
Speaker 1: what gets us to pursue the pleasure. So once you

364
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,400
Speaker 1: realize that fact, you realize that everything is pain management.

365
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 1: Because all human behavior is spurred by desire to escape

366
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,240
Speaker 1: is comfort. So that must mean therefore that time management

367
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,360
Speaker 1: is pain management. Money management is pain management. Weight management

368
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 1: is pain management. And so the first step to becoming indistractable,

369
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, the distraction is too much news,

370
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,200
Speaker 1: too much booze, too much football, too much Facebook, fundamentally,

371
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 1: the first step has to be mastering internal triggers, or

372
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,400
Speaker 1: they will become your master. You have to have a

373
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 1: practice in place so that when you feel that itch,

374
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:51,960
Speaker 1: when you feel that urge, you know what to do

375
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:53,800
Speaker 1: with it. And you've probably learned some of these already.

376
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,080
Speaker 1: But there's about a dozen different techniques that you can

377
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:57,560
Speaker 1: use that I put in my book. None of them

378
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 1: did I invent. The comeform, Acceptance, comitment therapy, and cognitive

379
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,120
Speaker 1: behavioral therapy. These very quick tools in your toolkit that

380
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,320
Speaker 1: when you feel bored, lonesome, uncertain.

381
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:06,960
Speaker 3: What's the last one you used?

382
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 1: So I love this what's called the ten minute rule.

383
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,200
Speaker 1: There's again a dozen different ones, and so the idea

384
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,720
Speaker 1: is there's no magic bullet. What you want is a toolkit.

385
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 1: And again I didn't invent it, and I have to

386
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 1: give credit to acceptance, to comic therapy. According to this technique,

387
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,400
Speaker 1: the idea is that when you feel the urge, check

388
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,000
Speaker 1: your phone, any kind of distraction it takes you away

389
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,400
Speaker 1: from what you plan to do. You want to sit

390
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,520
Speaker 1: with that urge for up to ten minutes. So what

391
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,440
Speaker 1: do I do? You know, I've been a professional writer

392
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,880
Speaker 1: now for well over a decade, and all I want

393
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 1: to do when I write is anything but writing?

394
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,560
Speaker 3: How much fun is a big blank page?

395
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:37,159
Speaker 1: It sucks?

396
00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:37,879
Speaker 3: It sucks?

397
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 1: You know, or you know, I want to check the news,

398
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,720
Speaker 1: I want to look at email, I want to check stocks,

399
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,440
Speaker 1: prices or sports scores, anything but the actual writing, right

400
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,119
Speaker 1: or research? Let me just do some quick research.

401
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 2: I'm just researching, honey, Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, I'm never

402
00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 2: going to get this done right. I want a deadline, And.

403
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,479
Speaker 1: Really I'm just escaping that uncomfortable sensation of is anybody

404
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,439
Speaker 1: gonna like this is gonna be any good? And what

405
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 1: if it's a dead end, which happens a lot. So

406
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 1: it's just these internal triggers bubbling up, which is the

407
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,959
Speaker 1: root cause of ninety percent of our distractions. Are these

408
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:05,560
Speaker 1: internal triggers.

409
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:06,000
Speaker 3: So what do I do?

410
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,800
Speaker 1: I send an alarm for ten minutes, and now I

411
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 1: have a choice to make. I can either get back

412
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,199
Speaker 1: to the task at hand whenever I'm ready, or I

413
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,240
Speaker 1: can surf the urge. These emotions they crust and subside,

414
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,200
Speaker 1: and that's not how most people think about these emotions.

415
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 1: When you feel bored or tired or indecisive.

416
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,360
Speaker 2: Sean till this is that's going to be forever exactly.

417
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,359
Speaker 2: Better make a decision right now. I might just feeling

418
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,480
Speaker 2: and go away, make it right away exactly. I tell myself,

419
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,479
Speaker 2: this is what it feels like to get better. This

420
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 2: is what it feels like to get better.

421
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,960
Speaker 1: And if I just remind myself that maybe two or

422
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,399
Speaker 1: three times, what I noticed that after maybe a minute,

423
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,639
Speaker 1: maybe ninety seconds, I can get back to the writing

424
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 1: and look. Every once in a while, I make it

425
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,240
Speaker 1: through the whole ten minutes and I surf the urge

426
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,880
Speaker 1: until the time went off, and I can go get distracted. Now,

427
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,240
Speaker 1: I can go check the email. Now, I can go

428
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 1: to that, I think. But I would say about ninety

429
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,359
Speaker 1: ninety five percent of the time I'm right back at

430
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,159
Speaker 1: the task at hand. So that's only one of a

431
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 1: dozen different techniques.

432
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,639
Speaker 2: I love it, and it when I first got help

433
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,159
Speaker 2: to stop drinking and using the place that I've got

434
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:03,480
Speaker 2: to help.

435
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,480
Speaker 3: They there's some rewards.

436
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 2: Involved, and sometimes there you know, a week, month, ninety

437
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 2: days for example. Years after that, and I heard someone

438
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,439
Speaker 2: talk about I'd give myself these rewards every five minutes,

439
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,520
Speaker 2: and I thought, yeah, whatever, and then one day I

440
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 2: was like, holy shit, And I'll basically.

441
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 3: Tell myself like Okay, can I do five more minutes?

442
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:24,920
Speaker 3: I can do five more minutes.

443
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, Because you know, people say, oh, whatever it is

444
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,200
Speaker 2: is day at a time, especially dis comfort totally. Yeah,

445
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 2: it's day to time. Sometimes it's for an hour at

446
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 2: a time. Can I make it to lunch. I can

447
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:33,120
Speaker 2: make it to lunch. Yeah.

448
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 3: Can I make it tonight bedtime?

449
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 2: Yep?

450
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 3: Can I make it five minutes from now?

451
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 1: I can make it fin This exactly proves the point

452
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 1: the idea here is that when you set that time

453
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 1: and we can resist pretty much anything for ten minutes,

454
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 1: and if ten minutes is too long, make it five minutes.

455
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 1: It really doesn't matter. But what you're doing exactly is

456
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 1: you described you're increasing your agency. Now all of a sudden,

457
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,160
Speaker 1: it's not mine control. It doesn't you know, have agency

458
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,280
Speaker 1: over you. You're not a slave to this stuff. It's

459
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 1: simply that you're learning, Okay, you know what the ten

460
00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 1: minute rule, I can make it to, the twenty minute rule.

461
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,119
Speaker 1: I can make into one day. I can make it

462
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:01,680
Speaker 1: into one week.

463
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:02,399
Speaker 3: And so you're.

464
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 1: Teaching yourself that you have agency and control over this.

465
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 2: We just need a moment, a white to take a

466
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 2: break back in a minute, if you don't ever know

467
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 2: any of this stuff. It'd be easy to see how

468
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 2: gets sucked away from you know, we've seen it quite

469
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,919
Speaker 2: a bit, actually, not just from the life of kids.

470
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,360
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm sure you're not above it. I'm

471
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,119
Speaker 2: sure your kids researches, me search. I wrote this for me.

472
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 2: I'm sure that your wife has looked at you looking

473
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 2: at your phone, missing something your daughter's doing, and you're

474
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 2: going fuck.

475
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 3: I wrote the book.

476
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,440
Speaker 1: Oh, this is why I wrote the book. In fact,

477
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 1: if it took me five years to write the book

478
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: because I kept getting distracted, that's exactly right. In fact,

479
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 1: that's the kind of the inciting incident. Now about why

480
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: I wrote this book. That I was with my daughter

481
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,159
Speaker 1: and we had some daddy daughter time planned together, and

482
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 1: I remember we had this activity book of things that

483
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 1: dads and daughters could do, like all kinds of you know,

484
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 1: do a paper airplane, throwing contests, all this little stuff.

485
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 1: And one of the activities in the book was to

486
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 1: ask each other this question that if you could have

487
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 1: any superpower, what superpower would you want? And I remember

488
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: the question, but I can't tell you what she said

489
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 1: because in that moment, that was the time that I said, hey, honey,

490
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I just got to do this one

491
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: thing on my phone and when I looked up, she

492
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: was gone. I told this story before while I was

493
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 1: writing my book, but before it was published. I told

494
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 1: this to a buddy of mine that this had happened,

495
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 1: and I felt really guilty about it, and he said, oh,

496
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,239
Speaker 1: you know what happened to me? My dogt We have

497
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: girls of similar age, and so he said that. He

498
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: asked her this similar question, and she said that the

499
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 1: superpower she would want is the power to talk to animals.

500
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: And he said, that's interesting, the power to talk to animals.

501
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 1: Why would you want that? And she said that when

502
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: you and mommy are on your phones, I'll have someone

503
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 1: to talk to.

504
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 2: Ah in the scene in the Frisbee.

505
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 1: So that was the impetus. I mean, that was really

506
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 1: and I have to say now things have a complete changed.

507
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 1: There is no air of my life that hasn't improved.

508
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm forty six years old. I'm in the

509
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: best shape of my life, not because I like sports

510
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 1: in particular, but because I do them. When I say

511
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: it well, I eat healthy. When I say it well,

512
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: I show up for my wife and my daughter. Because

513
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: that's what I say I'll do, and so now I'm

514
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: actually I am indistractable. And I like when things change,

515
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: you know, like during COVID, a lot of things went crazy.

516
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: I remember telling my wife, thank god I wrote this

517
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: book before COVID, because it would have been I can't

518
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: even imagine what would have happened trying to you know,

519
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: all the figuring out the news and the elections and everything,

520
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: all the craziness. I literally opened up the book that

521
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: I wrote to remind myself of these techniques, and I

522
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 1: still do now.

523
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,199
Speaker 2: And you mentioned it so because I did want to

524
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 2: talk to you about it. Your country has just been

525
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: through woh, really interesting year.

526
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 3: Why what happened.

527
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 2: Seeing your model in political campaigning and stuff like that?

528
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 2: Once you say the my tricks, it must be weird

529
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 2: for you to got gods, I'll see what you do

530
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: want to eat?

531
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 3: How can we be aware of these.

532
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 2: Kind of hooky techniques comes to political motivations absolutely so.

533
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: Step number when we talked about is master internal figure.

534
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: Step number two. There's four steps. Step number two is

535
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 1: make time for traction. So it's really important to define distraction.

536
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: What is distraction? The best way to understand what distraction

537
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: is is to understand what distraction is not. So the

538
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: opposite of distraction most people say focus.

539
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:19,479
Speaker 3: It's not focus.

540
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: The opposite of distraction is traction. Prefixes and suffixing exactly right.

541
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: And I was never obvious to me. Maybe it was

542
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: to you. I didn't realize that traction and distraction were opposites.

543
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: Of course, when you look at them right next to

544
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: each other, two interesting things things. Right, You've got distraction

545
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: and traction so clearly. But then you've also got that

546
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: both words and in the same six letters actio action.

547
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: So traction, by definition is any action that pulls you

548
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: towards what you said you were going to do, things

549
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: that move you close to your values, help you become

550
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: the kind of person you want to become. Those are

551
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: acts of traction. Everything else is distraction. So it's not

552
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: about the action itself. It's about one word, and that

553
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 1: one word is intent. So Dorothy Parker said, the time

554
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: you plan to waste is not wasted time. So if

555
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: what you want to do is to read the news

556
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,360
Speaker 1: or go on Facebook or watch a YouTube video, or

557
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: play golf or whatever it is you want to do

558
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: with your time, is fine. We should stop moralizing and

559
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: medicalizing these things. The problem is when we intend to

560
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: do one thing and then we did something else. So

561
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: you can't say you got distracted unless you know what

562
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: it distracted you from. So if I look at your

563
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: calendar and you haven't turned your values into time so

564
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: that you know what is it that you want to

565
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: do at anything you want to do is fine. You

566
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: want time for video games, put it in there. You

567
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 1: want time for social media, put it in there. Whatever

568
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,719
Speaker 1: it is, it's important to you if it's in your

569
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 1: calendar's traction. Everything that is not that now is distraction.

570
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: So the way we overcome these techniques, which we need

571
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: to realize it is not just social media that's trying

572
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: to monetize our attention. All media is trying to monetize

573
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: your attention. Every product is way advertising good invented. Of course,

574
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: they're telling you about horrible crimes that are never going

575
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: to affect you statistically, about you know, plane crashes that

576
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: you're never going to have experience in your life, because

577
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: that's what is selacious, that's what gets you to watch.

578
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 3: Right, we have.

579
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: This this negativity bias that keeps us tuning in to

580
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: these salacious events. So recognizing that all form of media,

581
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: I think actually legacy media, the Fox News of the world,

582
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 1: the CNNs of the world, are way worse for us

583
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: than actually social media, because at least in social media

584
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: you have a conversation. You can have alternate viewpoints as

585
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: opposed to one ideological perspective non stop all day long.

586
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: I'd rush much rather live in this world where we

587
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: have a diversity of voices, even if many of them

588
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: are wrong, and that we can start judging for ourselves

589
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: if and only if we make time for what we

590
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: intended to do. So, if you want to spend time

591
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: consuming the news or political this or that or whatever,

592
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that activity as long as you're

593
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 1: doing it on your schedule and according to your values,

594
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: not someone else's.

595
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: But you can't, you know, you can't ignore that if

596
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 2: I I don't know, if I'm looking up something for

597
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 2: you know, researching a guest coming in here, and like,

598
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 2: for example, I'm looking up time management and one's worked

599
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 2: in historical you know, behavioral nudges and things like that

600
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: in history that I want to talk to you about

601
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 2: next time. A ton on YouTube's like now I'm looking

602
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 2: at Anty's Miching campaigns from the seventies. Now I'm see

603
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: Ralph Knaighter is safe at any speed?

604
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 3: Is like I didn't look at that.

605
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, but now it's so you do get algorithmically fed

606
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 2: stuff that keeps you in these things. How can we

607
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 2: though when we're seeing, you know, really emotive stuff.

608
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 3: This government is going to take white shirts away forever.

609
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 3: I don't want that. I like this shit.

610
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 2: And then whatever you're going to do that afternoon is

611
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: now been taken over by you screaming at someone who's

612
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 2: probably in an Imanian trifarm.

613
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, look, there's a time and a place where

614
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: there is an issue that you should get involved in.

615
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: So I don't think that, you know, not participating is

616
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: potentially the answer. And look, what looks like crazy sensational

617
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: emotional to one person looks like a very important cause

618
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: to someone else. And so there's two things. One you

619
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: can look for altern perspectives. What I love about social media,

620
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: and again I'm not a tech apologist. I think it's

621
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: a lot they could do better. Is that every once

622
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: in a while, you know, I have some very strongly

623
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: held beliefs. However, I every once in a while will

624
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: see a story fed to me from the algorithm that

625
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: is diametrically opposed to what I believe. And I watched

626
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: that video because it shows me the other perspective, and

627
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: I see from the precise Oh okay, I mean this

628
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: recently happened actually, where I said, huh okay, Now I

629
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: get why they believe. I don't agree with them, but

630
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: now I see why they believe that way. And two,

631
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: as long as the way you're spending your time is

632
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: the way you intended. So the problem with the scenario

633
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: you gave was not oh, this political ad riled me up.

634
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: It's that you spent all day cursing people up on

635
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: social media.

636
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 2: You've mentioned a few times the intent but also intent

637
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: that's aligned with the values. If people never thought about

638
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 2: that before, that's why we can start thinking about values.

639
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 2: And I'm not talking like you know, twenty percent off here.

640
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 2: I'm talking about like, you know, how do we even

641
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: begin that conversation?

642
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, great question.

643
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: Okay, So what are values?

644
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 3: Right?

645
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: I'm kind of a word nerd. So values are defined

646
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: as attributes of the person you want to become. They're

647
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 1: not things that can be taken away from you. These

648
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: are attributes of the person you want to become. So

649
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: if you want to know what someone's values really are, right,

650
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: how are they becoming the person that they want to become?

651
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: You look at two things. You look at how they

652
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 1: spend their money and how they spend their time.

653
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 3: That's it.

654
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: You don't listen to what they say. People will say

655
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff, right, oh, oh, you know what's important.

656
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 3: Health.

657
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: It's very important for me to become a healthy person.

658
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: Will are you spending time in the gym? Do you

659
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 1: have that in your schedule? Can I see when you're

660
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: plenty to spend time on your house?

661
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, I'm going to start to work. This is

662
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 3: totally me. How good chase keke another one and appreciate.

663
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: Suld add how you spend your calories. That's actually get

664
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: it on too. So I used to be clinically obese,

665
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: so this was something I oh, all right, cut from

666
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: the same claw. I give these three life domains, so

667
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: it starts with you. You're at the center of these

668
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: three life domains. If you can't take care of yourself,

669
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: you can't take care of others, you can't make the

670
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: world a better place. So you then comes relationships. Then

671
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: the last life domain is work. Okay, So what you

672
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: need to do is to take out your calendar and

673
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: turn your values into time, because if you don't turn

674
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: them into time, it's just talk. So starting with the

675
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: you domain, how would the person you want to become

676
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: take care of themselves? So physical health, Do you have

677
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: a bedtime? Do you want time for reading or playing

678
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: video games or whatever it is that's fun for you.

679
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: Put that time in your calendar, like literally, book the

680
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: time in your schedule for all the things that you

681
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: need to do. Take care of yourself according to your values.

682
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: Then your relationships.

683
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 3: Right.

684
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: Part of the reason we have this loneliness epidemic in

685
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: the industrialized world is that the institutions we used to

686
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: have to bond communities together kind of evaporated with the

687
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: secularization of society. And I'm part of that too. I'm

688
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: not particularly religious, but we lost something when we stop

689
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: going to church, to the Kiwanis club, to these local

690
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: groups that were on our schedule that we had to

691
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: be we had to appear at. So booking that time

692
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: with your friends, certainly with your spouse, with your kids,

693
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: having that time set aside to live out your values,

694
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: to be an involved father or mother or whatever the

695
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: case might be having that time in your schedule for

696
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: the relationships. And then finally, the work domain, which is

697
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: where most people start. It's actually, I think the last

698
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: one work we can separate into two areas. There's what

699
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: we call reactive work, which is whatever he's familiar with.

700
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: Reacting to emails, reacting to notifications, reacting to the tap

701
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: on the shoulder from your boss. That's reactive work. Now,

702
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: everybody has some level of reactive work in their day.

703
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: Some people spend their entire day doing reactive work. But

704
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: if you're not spending at least part of your day

705
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: doing what's called reflective work, you're in big trouble. Reflective

706
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: work is the kind of work that can only be

707
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: done without distraction. Planning, strategizing, thinking requires us to set

708
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: time aside for that reflective work. If you're not doing that,

709
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: if you don't plan at least sometime in your day,

710
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: here's what happens. You run real fast in the wrong direction.

711
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: So this is where we have this artifact that's called

712
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: a timebox calendar, so that you can look at your

713
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: day and say, okay, this is how I will spend

714
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: my day according to my values. Because what's the big

715
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: picture here, what are we doing? Are we just anti technology?

716
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: Stop using technology?

717
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 3: No?

718
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: The idea here is to minimize regret is to live

719
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: each day so that you can look back. And very

720
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: few people have actually experienced the bliss what this is.

721
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: This feels so amazing when you can look back at

722
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: a day and say, you know what I spent that

723
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: day according to my values. It's the best, which it

724
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: includes time for fun.

725
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 3: Right, let me get I'm gonna get a real wide

726
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: angle on your heat.

727
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: When it comes to distraction, when it comes to you know,

728
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: time boxing, when it comes to putting stuff putting you

729
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: know your time weight, your mouth is essentially where.

730
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 3: Does denial of death come into all of this?

731
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: I think that the denial part in the denial of

732
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,959
Speaker 1: death hypothesis comes from our lack of agency. We all

733
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: know we're going to die. It only becomes scary when

734
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: you feel like you don't control the days until you die.

735
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: M that's when you begin to deny your mortality. But

736
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: when you acknowledge the fact that, yeah, I'm going to die,

737
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: so I better spend the days I have left the

738
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: way I want to accord to my values, now it's

739
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: not scary anymore. What's scary is what did I do

740
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: with my year?

741
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 2: Right?

742
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: With my life? That's when it's scary.

743
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, hey, you go to stay your full Cancer Gainsburg.

744
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, oh you know what.

745
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 2: I'm real glad I scrolled seven thousand kilometers on Instagram

746
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: of meaningless shit rather than spoke to my family.

747
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: Right, Whereas now I have to tell you, and I

748
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: don't want to jinnx myself here God for a bit.

749
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: But look, if something terrible happened tomorrow, I would say that,

750
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: you know what, since I become indistractable, I don't have regrets.

751
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: I've been spending my days the way I wanted to.

752
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: If you wanted to wrap up my over decade of

753
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: work here into one mantra, it's this. The antidote to

754
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: impulsiveness is forethought. It is fundamentally an impulse control problem.

755
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: It's not a moral failing, it's not a character flaw.

756
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: There's nothing broken about you or your brain. It's simply

757
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: that we haven't learned the skill set to deal with

758
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: impulse control. So we're constantly looking for something to take

759
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: our minds off of that discomfort. Right, So we drink

760
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: it away, we scroll it away, we click it away.

761
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: We look for something to pacify that. But if you

762
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: leave it to the last minute, they're gonna get you.

763
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: It's too late, right If the cigarettes in your hand

764
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: are gonna smoke it. If if the chocolate cake is

765
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: on the fork on it's way to your mouth, you're

766
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: gonna eat it. If you sleep with your cell phone

767
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: every night on your nightstand, you're gonna pick it up

768
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,239
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning because it's too late. If

769
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: you leave it at the last minute, of course they're

770
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: gonna get you. And I think that's why most people

771
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: feel like technology is controlling them and the algorithms and

772
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: all this evil stuff, because that's when it's already in

773
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: your hand, that's too late. But the antidote is forethought.

774
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: And this is when you talk about the managing the

775
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 2: external using managing the triggers, managing the things like this thing,

776
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: I'll go to my thing upstairs. But also like for

777
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: an example I would give was that I travel a

778
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: lot for work and for years now, when I'm checking

779
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: in a hotel.

780
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 3: I'm in that says.

781
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: Situation in my life now where I can ask people

782
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: who book the thing for me, can you make sure

783
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: this happens?

784
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 3: But I chack into it. I always ask did you

785
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 3: take the alcohol out of the minibar? And I say, yeah, Well,

786
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 3: I'll send someone.

787
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: Can do it.

788
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna do it, right, but it's just easier, right,

789
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: It's like done. I have chocolate bars in the house.

790
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: So you asked earlier about the algorithms. Yeah, and you say,

791
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: you watch one video, then you get the next one,

792
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: the next one, the next one. I don't. I don't

793
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: because I took the alcohol the MINDI bar.

794
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 3: How do I do that?

795
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: I installed a free Chrome extension called YouTube DF. It's

796
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: free DF stands for distraction free, totally free to go

797
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: to Chrome the app story Chrome and you install this app,

798
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: and so now you know all those distracting videos you

799
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: see on the side, I don't see those. So that's

800
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: what's step numberour. We skip number three, but step number

801
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: four is hacking back the external triggers. So the solution

802
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: to all this distracting technology is more technology that gets

803
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: rid of the distraction. There are so many tools.

804
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 3: I mean, look, how many.

805
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: Devices can you name? How many products out there can

806
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: you name that actively help you use the device less?

807
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,919
Speaker 1: Everybody's phone comes with screen time, and Google well being

808
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if if an Android or iPhone. They all

809
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: come with this technology and it we just have to

810
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: learn how to use it. So for example, when I'm

811
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: watching YouTube, I install this thing once and now when

812
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: I watch a video, I see one video.

813
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: Where is regulation come in?

814
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: We love regulation because it's really simple, right, like, just

815
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: regulate that. But regulation comes with costs. You know, if

816
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: you think about all the things that kill kids. Nobody

817
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: ever talks about this, but actually today it's the safest

818
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: time in history to be a child in the industrialized world.

819
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: Drunk driving record lows, drug use record lows, teen pregnancy

820
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: record lows, truancy record lows, homicide record lows. These are

821
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: global record lows in the industrialized world. But why might

822
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: that be? Why is truancy and homicide and drunk driving

823
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: and all this stuff down, Well, if you wanted to

824
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: keep kids safe at home and off the streets, there

825
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: are some upsides when we have this knee jerk reaction

826
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 1: to regulate one. We do it poorly, right, The geniuses

827
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: in government are extremely hamphiested, and we learn that we

828
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: are taking a lot of you know, we tend to

829
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: throw out the baby with the bath road, not that

830
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: I'm against regulation, like, I think there is something sensible

831
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: to saying, you know what, maybe thirteen is too young

832
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: for a certain content online, Maybe sixteen is not a

833
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: bad idea. I think there is a right way to

834
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: do that. There's certainly some wrong ways to do it.

835
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: But we also need to be very careful that we

836
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: don't throw out all the all the good that comes

837
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: with it as well, and that we aren't getting to

838
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: the heart of the issue that I think part of

839
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: the reason that we're seeing so many problems with teen

840
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: suicide is that I think we have pathologized the generation

841
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: that we are. You know, there's so many other things

842
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: that are going on that when we have a simple solution,

843
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: Ah it's the rock music. Oh, it's the comic books. Ah,

844
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: it's the radio. Now, it's the social media, we don't

845
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: look at ourselves as parents or in the school system

846
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: to see, hey, what else might be a deeper reason.

847
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 2: I just got to flashback to the this famous footage

848
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 2: of Judas priests standing in a court because some horribly tragic,

849
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: tragic thing happened where a kid took their life and

850
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: they found the record on the record player and their

851
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: parents went it must have been the.

852
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 3: Band, right, and then you're just pretty standing in the

853
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 3: witness box, right, like we write Living after Midnight, we're

854
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 3: in suits.

855
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: We don't know what's going on here, Like it's I understand,

856
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: it's you've got to blame something.

857
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 3: But it was one of those moments where and parents love.

858
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: That and they always have, right, it's called the moral panics.

859
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: We every generation. Like literally, we know that there's writing

860
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 1: thousands of years ago people talking about all the kids

861
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: these days are die So this is nothing. So the

862
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: problem is that it doesn't get to the heart of

863
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 1: the issue. We're not really understanding what's going on, and

864
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: I think that's the real danger.

865
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 2: The last thing I wanted to to ask you about

866
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 2: is that the people will listen to it to the

867
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 2: time of year in Australia where we go back to school,

868
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: all right, Now Jay's finish school little while ago Wolf's

869
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: about to start. People won't be changing schools. It sounds

870
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: like your daughter is at a part where like this

871
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 2: is a serious business here, kid, all right, These a

872
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: couple of years really count a lot as far as

873
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 2: university and stuff goes. Is it easy for you to

874
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 2: practice once you she said, you cracked your own book open.

875
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 2: You know, as a parent, here, how can we support

876
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 2: our kids around this schoolwork?

877
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: So the difference, so I still get distracted from time

878
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: to time being industruct So I made up the word indistractable.

879
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: I can define it any way I want. So being

880
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: indistractable doesn't mean you never get distracted. The difference is

881
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: between a distractable person and an indistractable person, is that

882
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: a distractable person keeps getting distracted.

883
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 3: Had a wonderful quote.

884
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: He said, a mistake repeated more than once is a decision.

885
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: A mistake repeated more than once. This is such a

886
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: good quote. So a distractable person because it's true. It's

887
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: so true. A distractable person keeps getting distracted with how

888
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: many times can we say social media and the news

889
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: and how many ties can we say that before we

890
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: do something about it. An indistractable person is ah, okay,

891
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: I see what you did there. I got distracted that

892
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: one time. Again. The antidote to impulsive this is forethought,

893
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 1: what can I do today to prevent getting distracted tomorrow?

894
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: And so that's a different between a distractable person an

895
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: in distracted person. When it comes to our kids, the

896
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 1: world is only going to become a more distractable place.

897
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: So we have to teach our kids how to be

898
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: in distractable. How do we do that? We follow exact

899
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: same four steps and starts with By the way, the

900
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: number one thing you could do as a parent if

901
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: you want to raise indistractable kids is to be an

902
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: indistractable parent.

903
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 3: That's the worst thing about parenting, right example, I'll do

904
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 3: what you show them, ah.

905
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: Exactly, because they come with these invisible antennae. These distraction

906
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: are these hypocrisy detection device that they're all with and

907
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: they're constantly scanning to see where we screw up. So

908
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: you cannot say, oh, put that you know, minecraft away,

909
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 1: stop playing that game. What meanwhile, you're on your phone.

910
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: You have to set the example. So that's number one.

911
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: Then you can literally walk them through these four steps

912
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: starting it. You know, we start with my daughter around

913
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: seven eight years old. We started mastering internal triggers. What

914
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: tools do you have to control these these icky feelings?

915
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: Number two? Making time for traction For kids, that's very

916
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: easy because most of their day is already scheduled, So

917
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: it's about scheduling time to include the fun things. Right One,

918
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: of the best things you can do for your kid

919
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: if they're playing too much video games or whatever, schedule

920
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: it in their day, like literally put time in the

921
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: schedule so that they have to they don't have to

922
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: constantly think about when can I play? When can I play?

923
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: Put it in their schedule, but to have a discussion

924
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: with them about how much time is good.

925
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 2: So it's not an open ended exactly and you know,

926
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: having that conflict of like how much I want to

927
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 2: just one more, just one more episode?

928
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: That's right, I show you exactly. There's some details on

929
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: how to do this, but the idea is here that

930
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: you're giving your kid agency. Because a lot of parents say, oh,

931
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 1: they'll want to do it all day. You'd be surprised

932
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: if you sit down with your kid and you you

933
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: show them, hey, it's your schedule, it's your day. How

934
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: much time do you need for homework, how much time

935
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: do you need for your friends, how much time do

936
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 1: you need to go play?

937
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 3: Whatever it is.

938
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: Sitting down to do that exercise, you would not believe

939
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: how responsible kids can be when they're given the choice,

940
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: as opposed to what most parents do, stop that, do this,

941
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: do this. Kids are so regulated these days, right, if

942
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: you think about you know, there's only two places in

943
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: the world that we can tell people where to go,

944
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,479
Speaker 1: how to dress, what to eat, who to be friends

945
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: with them, what to think, and that's school and prison.

946
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 1: So is it any surprise that kids want freedom and autonomy?

947
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: So where do they go for that? Guess where they

948
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: go online? Where they feel like gods. Yeah, so we

949
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: have to understand the deeper reasons why they want to

950
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: use these technology this much as opposed to just being

951
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: cops and telling them what to do all day, which

952
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: only makes the problem worse, by the way. Yeah, so

953
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: that's step number two. Removing the external triggers. Hacking back

954
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: external triggers is step number three. So anything that beefs,

955
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: buzzes are boops in the bedroom of a child or adult.

956
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: That includes old technology like a television or radio, a

957
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: fish tank, anything that could disrupt sleep. It's got to

958
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: go televisions in the bedroom of adults either because we're

959
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: setting that example, because it's not actually the TV that's

960
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: the problem or the iPath that's the problem. The problem

961
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: is what it disrupts. It disrupts sleep, and especially for children,

962
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 1: they need sleep. We know that there's a direct correlation

963
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: between children who don't sleep and psychiatric symptoms. We have

964
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: to get kids their proper rest. So anything that buzzes

965
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 1: or makes noise of any kind, including pets, unfortunately, does

966
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: not have a place in the bedroom. We need kids

967
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: to get their sleep. That's about hacking back the external triggers.

968
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: And then the four step is preventing distraction with pacts

969
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: where we teach kids actually to use technology to help

970
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: them not use too much technology. So, for example, there's

971
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: an app that my daughter uses. I love it. It's

972
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 1: called Forest and Forest, very simple app.

973
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 3: You open it up, you type in how much to uses?

974
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: Oh us perfect, yes, exactly. So you're teaching them how

975
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: to use these tools so that they can regulate themselves,

976
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: because look, when they leave the house, you're not going

977
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 1: to be there. So we're not raising kids, we're raising

978
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: future adults. We want to teach them how to manage

979
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: their own time.

980
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 3: You've been so generous coming today. I'm gonna make a

981
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 3: TV series for you. Man.

982
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 2: You are so much, You got so much to give,

983
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: and I'm just really gratefully that you've done the work

984
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 2: that you've done.

985
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 3: Because it's good. It's good to have a like a

986
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:11,439
Speaker 3: white Angle.

987
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 2: I'd ask you to tell me a clue of the

988
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 2: next book that you got lined up, but you're probably

989
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 2: under some sort of.

990
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 3: Mad in the But whatever it's going to be, I

991
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 3: can't wait to see it. I appreciates for visiting our

992
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 3: country man.

993
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: This has been fantastic and visiting with you has been

994
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: one of the hat lights.

995
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 3: You cut on the Koala.

996
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: Okay, that wins, but only by a little bit.

997
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 3: And that was near al.

998
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 2: I'll put some links to his books Hooked and Indestractable

999
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 2: in the show notes, as well as an article that

1000
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 2: he gave us on time boxing, some ways that you

1001
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 2: can explore your values, and a schedule make a tool

1002
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 2: which he wanted you to have.

1003
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 3: Tickets for the Story Club show on the February of

1004
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 3: the ninth on sale right now. It's this Sunday. You

1005
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 3: might get lucky that the factory.

1006
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: If we sell enough tickets to the factory, they can

1007
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: always put us in a bigger room.

1008
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 3: So look, we'll see how we go.

1009
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: But getting in because look it's Rob Carlton, Ato, Mark Dewey,

1010
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: Sean mccaloff, myself, It's a fucking mad lineup and it's

1011
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 2: an early night two six point thirty. Come on, we'll

1012
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 2: be home by night. He's got time for staying up late.

1013
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: Not May see you on the substack links in the

1014
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,760
Speaker 2: show notes for everything, Thanks for listening,