1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,780 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,780 --> 00:00:10,049 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. The startup scene in recent years has been a 3 00:00:10,050 --> 00:00:12,389 Sean Aylmer: bit of a roller coaster. First there was a boom, 4 00:00:12,389 --> 00:00:15,150 Sean Aylmer: particularly in the tech space, with some really exciting things 5 00:00:15,150 --> 00:00:18,779 Sean Aylmer: happening. More recently though, with inflation and interest rates rising, 6 00:00:18,780 --> 00:00:22,470 Sean Aylmer: we've seen startup valuations wound back and staff being laid 7 00:00:22,470 --> 00:00:24,930 Sean Aylmer: off. But there's one aspect of the startup space that 8 00:00:24,930 --> 00:00:28,860 Sean Aylmer: we haven't really talked much about. It's corporate venturing, where 9 00:00:28,860 --> 00:00:32,190 Sean Aylmer: larger existing companies are getting involved in startups or developing 10 00:00:32,190 --> 00:00:35,609 Sean Aylmer: their own innovative businesses. Boston Consulting Group is one of 11 00:00:35,609 --> 00:00:39,330 Sean Aylmer: the largest consulting firms in the world, and BCG Digital Ventures 12 00:00:39,510 --> 00:00:42,809 Sean Aylmer: is its business building and innovation arm. Kevin Lucas is 13 00:00:42,810 --> 00:00:46,409 Sean Aylmer: the managing director and partner at BCG Digital Ventures, Sydney. 14 00:00:46,409 --> 00:00:47,820 Sean Aylmer: Kevin, welcome to Fear and Greed. 15 00:00:48,210 --> 00:00:49,589 Kevin Lucas: Thanks, Sean. It's great to be here. 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,590 Sean Aylmer: So let's start off with a definition. What exactly is 17 00:00:52,590 --> 00:00:53,909 Sean Aylmer: corporate venturing? 18 00:00:54,270 --> 00:00:57,450 Kevin Lucas: So corporate venturing, I think, is trying to solve for 19 00:00:57,450 --> 00:01:01,050 Kevin Lucas: the challenge that you just articulated pretty well. There's been, 20 00:01:01,230 --> 00:01:04,559 Kevin Lucas: over the last decade or so, a huge growth in 21 00:01:04,559 --> 00:01:07,199 Kevin Lucas: what's happening in the venture capital and startup scene. And 22 00:01:07,530 --> 00:01:10,559 Kevin Lucas: corporates have been left a little bit behind. So there's 23 00:01:10,559 --> 00:01:13,500 Kevin Lucas: a great interest from large businesses as to how they tap 24 00:01:13,500 --> 00:01:16,410 Kevin Lucas: into some of the dynamics of what's gone on in 25 00:01:16,410 --> 00:01:18,780 Kevin Lucas: that community and apply it in a corporate context. And 26 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:22,170 Kevin Lucas: corporate venturing really tries to solve for that, find startup 27 00:01:22,170 --> 00:01:25,259 Kevin Lucas: type growth opportunities, but in a corporate context. 28 00:01:25,770 --> 00:01:28,859 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So I know Woolworths has done stuff around artificial 29 00:01:28,859 --> 00:01:32,370 Sean Aylmer: intelligence, although it's probably a bit beyond startup. Qantas in 30 00:01:32,370 --> 00:01:34,770 Sean Aylmer: fact, did stuff in media. Is that the sort of 31 00:01:34,770 --> 00:01:35,640 Sean Aylmer: thing we're talking about? 32 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,569 Kevin Lucas: Yeah, I think corporate venturing can take a company in 33 00:01:39,569 --> 00:01:41,969 Kevin Lucas: a number of different ways. You could think about it 34 00:01:41,969 --> 00:01:46,289 Kevin Lucas: as how to build a reinvented version of your current 35 00:01:46,289 --> 00:01:49,529 Kevin Lucas: product, so your current business model. How to enter markets 36 00:01:49,530 --> 00:01:52,470 Kevin Lucas: in which you are not particularly strong, but are lucrative 37 00:01:52,470 --> 00:01:55,350 Kevin Lucas: for your brand and your customer base. As well as, 38 00:01:55,410 --> 00:01:57,570 Kevin Lucas: how to tap into some of the interesting things that 39 00:01:57,570 --> 00:02:00,690 Kevin Lucas: technology is offering. There are all sorts of interesting solutions 40 00:02:00,690 --> 00:02:04,320 Kevin Lucas: that are available now that were harder to solve for 10 years 41 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,750 Kevin Lucas: ago. So I think corporate venturing can actually cover the 42 00:02:06,780 --> 00:02:09,180 Kevin Lucas: spectrum of all of those things, depending on what the 43 00:02:09,180 --> 00:02:10,260 Kevin Lucas: priority is for the corporate. 44 00:02:10,470 --> 00:02:13,530 Sean Aylmer: It might be about reinventing a business, but presumably most 45 00:02:13,530 --> 00:02:15,719 Sean Aylmer: corporates don't go into something that they have no need 46 00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:18,780 Sean Aylmer: for or knowledge of. So I suppose the Woolworths' artificial 47 00:02:18,780 --> 00:02:21,629 Sean Aylmer: intelligence, that's a data play for Woolworths to understand their 48 00:02:21,630 --> 00:02:24,930 Sean Aylmer: customers better. That's the sort of thing that corporates are 49 00:02:24,930 --> 00:02:27,900 Sean Aylmer: thinking about. It's about building on their own business, as 50 00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:29,280 Sean Aylmer: opposed to starting something new. 51 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,389 Kevin Lucas: I think what we've learned at Digital Ventures, over the 52 00:02:33,389 --> 00:02:37,139 Kevin Lucas: last eight years or so, is if corporates venture too 53 00:02:37,139 --> 00:02:40,799 Kevin Lucas: boldly and bravely beyond what they know, the probability of 54 00:02:40,799 --> 00:02:45,480 Kevin Lucas: succeeding starts to decrease pretty quickly. And that's not a 55 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,750 Kevin Lucas: space that corporate executives typically want to venture into. So 56 00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:51,480 Kevin Lucas: I think what we found the sweet spot is, how 57 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,719 Kevin Lucas: do you push far enough from the BAU bounds of 58 00:02:54,719 --> 00:02:58,590 Kevin Lucas: what you do week in, week out? But ensure that 59 00:02:58,590 --> 00:03:03,030 Kevin Lucas: your strategic advantages, your core assets, are something that you're 60 00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:05,010 Kevin Lucas: actually going to be able to use to play. And 61 00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:08,788 Kevin Lucas: you touched on some great examples. Qantas has ventured into 62 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,758 Kevin Lucas: the credit card business, into the insurance business, into the 63 00:03:11,758 --> 00:03:14,039 Kevin Lucas: retail business. I think all of that off the back 64 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,100 Kevin Lucas: of a really strong loyalty program, and a large customer 65 00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:20,670 Kevin Lucas: base as an example. CBA recently has ventured into the 66 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:23,100 Kevin Lucas: eCommerce space in a number of different ways, which you 67 00:03:23,100 --> 00:03:26,759 Kevin Lucas: wouldn't say is analogous with banking off the bat. But 68 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,309 Kevin Lucas: actually, there's a lot of commonality between what consumers are 69 00:03:29,309 --> 00:03:32,788 Kevin Lucas: doing online, how they're spending, how they're thinking about purchases, 70 00:03:32,790 --> 00:03:34,920 Kevin Lucas: and how banks can support them in that journey. So 71 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,800 Kevin Lucas: it's about finding connective tissue between the new opportunity and 72 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:38,820 Kevin Lucas: what the core business does. 73 00:03:39,210 --> 00:03:41,460 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And is it increasingly widespread? 74 00:03:42,270 --> 00:03:44,730 Kevin Lucas: Eight years ago, we spent most of our time trying 75 00:03:44,730 --> 00:03:47,189 Kevin Lucas: to tell people what corporate venturing was, and why it 76 00:03:47,190 --> 00:03:49,889 Kevin Lucas: was interesting, in a portfolio of investment. I think, now, 77 00:03:50,219 --> 00:03:52,770 Kevin Lucas: the rhetoric has moved on a lot to, we understand 78 00:03:52,770 --> 00:03:54,719 Kevin Lucas: why we might do it, and how do we do 79 00:03:54,719 --> 00:03:57,900 Kevin Lucas: it, and where do we do it. It's definitely much 80 00:03:57,900 --> 00:04:01,320 Kevin Lucas: more widespread in Australia today. There are a number of companies in 81 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,539 Kevin Lucas: the SX100 that have either done this or are actively 82 00:04:03,540 --> 00:04:06,120 Kevin Lucas: doing it. And I would say on the global scale, 83 00:04:06,330 --> 00:04:07,410 Kevin Lucas: even more widespread again. 84 00:04:07,980 --> 00:04:12,510 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And then, staying on that theme, is it something that a travel company 85 00:04:12,510 --> 00:04:15,300 Sean Aylmer: or a bank or a retailer is more likely to 86 00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:19,440 Sean Aylmer: do than a miner, for example? Are there certain industries 87 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,559 Sean Aylmer: where it just seems to be getting more of a 88 00:04:22,559 --> 00:04:23,280 Sean Aylmer: life of its own? 89 00:04:23,490 --> 00:04:25,828 Kevin Lucas: Yeah, certainly when we started, I would say, we were 90 00:04:25,830 --> 00:04:29,669 Kevin Lucas: more focused in B2C opportunities, partly because it's easier to 91 00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:34,650 Kevin Lucas: tap into the problem space. Consumer research is relatively cost 92 00:04:34,650 --> 00:04:39,000 Kevin Lucas: efficient and simple to run. And then building mobile web 93 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,709 Kevin Lucas: based solutions for consumers is a relatively inexpensive exercise. So 94 00:04:43,710 --> 00:04:45,690 Kevin Lucas: I think that was a safe place to start. But 95 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,700 Kevin Lucas: certainly today, that has progressed well beyond simple B2C into 96 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:53,910 Kevin Lucas: quite complicated B2B, and certainly not beyond the miners to 97 00:04:53,910 --> 00:04:56,400 Kevin Lucas: do things in this space. A great example that comes 98 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,540 Kevin Lucas: to mind immediately, a venture that we built in Europe 99 00:05:00,599 --> 00:05:05,189 Kevin Lucas: with De Beers. Which was looking at proving provenance for 100 00:05:05,219 --> 00:05:08,550 Kevin Lucas: diamonds that were dug up in diamond mines in Africa, 101 00:05:08,550 --> 00:05:11,969 Kevin Lucas: and chipped and sold all across the world. Largely to 102 00:05:11,970 --> 00:05:14,669 Kevin Lucas: avoid challenges that they've had for a long time around 103 00:05:14,670 --> 00:05:17,428 Kevin Lucas: things like conflict diamonds. And that's been done through blockchain 104 00:05:17,428 --> 00:05:21,059 Kevin Lucas: decentralization protocols. So I think there is almost no balance 105 00:05:21,059 --> 00:05:26,460 Kevin Lucas: to where this space can go. There are just different 106 00:05:26,460 --> 00:05:29,610 Kevin Lucas: challenges to solve, depending on whether you're more B2C or B2B focused. 107 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:31,799 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me Kevin, we'll be back in a minute. 108 00:05:37,710 --> 00:05:40,080 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Kevin Lucas, managing director and 109 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,370 Sean Aylmer: partner at BCG Digital Ventures, Sydney. Okay, I want to 110 00:05:44,370 --> 00:05:46,349 Sean Aylmer: get onto some of the ones that you've worked with, 111 00:05:46,350 --> 00:05:48,810 Sean Aylmer: or BCG Digital Ventures has worked with. Just before we 112 00:05:48,810 --> 00:05:52,620 Sean Aylmer: get there, many businesses go through cycles where they want 113 00:05:52,620 --> 00:05:55,830 Sean Aylmer: to do everything themselves. And then there is other times 114 00:05:55,830 --> 00:05:58,080 Sean Aylmer: where they think, " Let's outsource it or take a share 115 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:02,940 Sean Aylmer: in it or partner with someone." It sounds like as 116 00:06:02,940 --> 00:06:05,010 Sean Aylmer: the world becomes a bigger place for a business, and 117 00:06:05,010 --> 00:06:09,450 Sean Aylmer: they see greater opportunities, and mostly because of technology, they 118 00:06:09,450 --> 00:06:13,469 Sean Aylmer: are increasingly partnering with people rather than doing it themselves. 119 00:06:13,889 --> 00:06:16,889 Kevin Lucas: Yeah, and I think that's a continuum decision, rather than 120 00:06:16,889 --> 00:06:19,560 Kevin Lucas: a binary choice. So on the spectrum of things that 121 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,719 Kevin Lucas: you can do in a portfolio, M& A is still 122 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,060 Kevin Lucas: alive and well and corporates will continue to pursue that. 123 00:06:24,450 --> 00:06:26,790 Kevin Lucas: I would suggest, typically, where it's closer to the core 124 00:06:26,790 --> 00:06:30,660 Kevin Lucas: business. When corporates are building, I'd see they're doing it 125 00:06:30,660 --> 00:06:35,219 Kevin Lucas: in two different ways, but always with a view that 126 00:06:35,219 --> 00:06:37,860 Kevin Lucas: they're trying to build something that is bespoke and uniquely 127 00:06:37,860 --> 00:06:42,300 Kevin Lucas: advantaged to them. And the build component tends to focus 128 00:06:42,300 --> 00:06:44,610 Kevin Lucas: on the bit that's got the highest point of differentiation 129 00:06:44,610 --> 00:06:46,589 Kevin Lucas: in market. So I want to own the user experience, 130 00:06:46,589 --> 00:06:48,839 Kevin Lucas: I want to own the value proposition, I want to 131 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,349 Kevin Lucas: own some of the data. I'm less worried about the 132 00:06:52,350 --> 00:06:56,099 Kevin Lucas: platforms and the infrastructure and the licensing. And I'm super 133 00:06:56,100 --> 00:06:58,738 Kevin Lucas: willing to partner with those that have solved what you 134 00:06:58,740 --> 00:07:01,950 Kevin Lucas: might call more industry- wide or protocol problems. And that's 135 00:07:01,950 --> 00:07:04,260 Kevin Lucas: actually a really efficient way to go about it because, 136 00:07:04,469 --> 00:07:07,620 Kevin Lucas: when you go into corporate venturing, you are taking some 137 00:07:07,620 --> 00:07:10,289 Kevin Lucas: risk. And you want to mitigate that upfront as much 138 00:07:10,289 --> 00:07:12,750 Kevin Lucas: as possible. So the combination of building things that matter, 139 00:07:12,750 --> 00:07:15,810 Kevin Lucas: and partnering with others to solve known problems and scale, 140 00:07:15,810 --> 00:07:16,891 Kevin Lucas: is a very logical approach, actually. 141 00:07:16,891 --> 00:07:21,059 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So why do companies, this is a bit of a Dorothy Dixer really, but why 142 00:07:21,059 --> 00:07:24,480 Sean Aylmer: do companies use people like you, BCG Digital Ventures? 143 00:07:24,929 --> 00:07:27,210 Kevin Lucas: Yeah, I think there's a couple of different reasons. All 144 00:07:27,210 --> 00:07:30,630 Kevin Lucas: organizations are very busy, and trying to find capacity in 145 00:07:30,630 --> 00:07:33,480 Kevin Lucas: the organization to go chase new things is hard. Running 146 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,110 Kevin Lucas: the day- to- day is pretty time consuming. So in 147 00:07:37,110 --> 00:07:40,559 Kevin Lucas: some ways, we provide capacity to organizations who just don't 148 00:07:40,559 --> 00:07:44,249 Kevin Lucas: have it. But I think, more importantly, we have built 149 00:07:44,250 --> 00:07:47,730 Kevin Lucas: over the last eight years or so, a pretty robust 150 00:07:47,730 --> 00:07:50,580 Kevin Lucas: methodology to do this in a very time boxed, capitally 151 00:07:50,580 --> 00:07:53,970 Kevin Lucas: efficient way. So we know exactly what questions to answer 152 00:07:53,970 --> 00:07:56,220 Kevin Lucas: in what time series. We know the problems to go 153 00:07:56,220 --> 00:07:59,249 Kevin Lucas: solve. We know the parts of the core prevention that 154 00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:01,770 Kevin Lucas: you really need to ensure work, and how to test 155 00:08:01,770 --> 00:08:03,929 Kevin Lucas: that they are working before you put a lot of 156 00:08:03,929 --> 00:08:05,999 Kevin Lucas: capital into it. And then we have a great team. 157 00:08:06,059 --> 00:08:08,760 Kevin Lucas: I think talent's really important in the startup community. It's 158 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,360 Kevin Lucas: also really important in the corporate venturing community. And we 159 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,200 Kevin Lucas: have a great multidisciplinary team of product people, designers, engineers, 160 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,699 Kevin Lucas: growth architects, who are uniquely qualified to work out how 161 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:22,949 Kevin Lucas: to build corporate ventures from start to end. 162 00:08:23,430 --> 00:08:25,410 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Can you take me through... De Beers was a 163 00:08:25,410 --> 00:08:28,590 Sean Aylmer: great example. Do you have another example, perhaps more locally, 164 00:08:28,590 --> 00:08:29,850 Sean Aylmer: where you've worked with businesses? 165 00:08:30,810 --> 00:08:33,480 Kevin Lucas: Yeah, one I could talk about very quickly. So we 166 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,840 Kevin Lucas: launched a business in Australia the middle of last year, 167 00:08:36,900 --> 00:08:40,379 Kevin Lucas: which is a disruptor to the insurance market. So that was launched 168 00:08:40,379 --> 00:08:43,920 Kevin Lucas: with HCF, a well known health insurer. Business is called 169 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,290 Kevin Lucas: Flip. It's been in market for about 12 months now. 170 00:08:46,290 --> 00:08:50,610 Kevin Lucas: And it's basically trying to find ways to make insurance 171 00:08:50,610 --> 00:08:53,940 Kevin Lucas: more relevant and more available to the mass market in 172 00:08:53,940 --> 00:08:57,239 Kevin Lucas: a more digital manner. So you can buy insurance on 173 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,000 Kevin Lucas: demand through a mobile app, switch it on, switch it 174 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,699 Kevin Lucas: off. Cover yourself in your moment of need and get 175 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:06,929 Kevin Lucas: away from some of the typical high cost, multi- year 176 00:09:06,929 --> 00:09:10,800 Kevin Lucas: premium models that exist today. I think that's a great 177 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,830 Kevin Lucas: example of where an insurance company has stayed within their 178 00:09:14,130 --> 00:09:16,980 Kevin Lucas: category, but built quite a disruptive product in a corporate 179 00:09:16,980 --> 00:09:17,550 Kevin Lucas: venturing manner. 180 00:09:18,059 --> 00:09:22,350 Sean Aylmer: It's a very tech concept, where you need to disrupt yourself, really. 181 00:09:23,220 --> 00:09:26,970 Kevin Lucas: Yeah, I think in certain industries, the question of disrupt yourself or 182 00:09:27,059 --> 00:09:30,719 Kevin Lucas: be disrupted is very real for executives and boards. And 183 00:09:30,719 --> 00:09:34,380 Kevin Lucas: those that are willing to take that challenge on have, 184 00:09:34,619 --> 00:09:36,990 Kevin Lucas: typically, been very successful. So I think it's a bold 185 00:09:37,050 --> 00:09:39,420 Kevin Lucas: move, but can be a very, very advantageous one for 186 00:09:39,420 --> 00:09:39,930 Kevin Lucas: those that do it well. 187 00:09:39,930 --> 00:09:42,990 Sean Aylmer: And is it very cyclical? So at the moment, we 188 00:09:42,990 --> 00:09:45,630 Sean Aylmer: had the pandemic, so I'm sure that would've affected what 189 00:09:46,380 --> 00:09:48,450 Sean Aylmer: people were prepared to do, or businesses were prepared to 190 00:09:48,450 --> 00:09:51,959 Sean Aylmer: do, around corporate venturing. Now, we have rising interest rates 191 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,620 Sean Aylmer: and they'll keep going higher. Inflation, which might be near 192 00:09:55,620 --> 00:09:58,290 Sean Aylmer: a peak, but it's pretty high at the moment. Does 193 00:09:58,290 --> 00:09:59,730 Sean Aylmer: that all work into the equation? 194 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,569 Kevin Lucas: It does. I think it's worth noting that corporate venturing 195 00:10:03,570 --> 00:10:07,949 Kevin Lucas: is a multi- year investment journey and you can't expect 196 00:10:07,950 --> 00:10:10,829 Kevin Lucas: immediate ROI. You're in it for the medium to long 197 00:10:10,830 --> 00:10:15,480 Kevin Lucas: game. And when pressures are heightened, it does make organizations 198 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,610 Kevin Lucas: think twice. But certainly, what everyone learned through the COVID 199 00:10:17,610 --> 00:10:21,270 Kevin Lucas: experience was a defensive strategy is not helpful either because 200 00:10:21,270 --> 00:10:25,410 Kevin Lucas: you get further left behind. So I think, now, where 201 00:10:25,410 --> 00:10:28,739 Kevin Lucas: I'm seeing corporate venturing heading is, how do you just 202 00:10:28,740 --> 00:10:31,290 Kevin Lucas: get the choice right between the amount of risk you're 203 00:10:31,290 --> 00:10:35,040 Kevin Lucas: willing to take off and how close to your core 204 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,300 Kevin Lucas: business and your immediate needs what you do is? So I 205 00:10:39,300 --> 00:10:43,588 Kevin Lucas: think the inflationary market is making people aware, but it's 206 00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:45,689 Kevin Lucas: just making them think more carefully about where they would 207 00:10:45,690 --> 00:10:47,579 Kevin Lucas: want to take bets, as opposed to not taking any 208 00:10:47,580 --> 00:10:47,758 Kevin Lucas: at all. 209 00:10:48,359 --> 00:10:51,780 Sean Aylmer: And my final question, are boards and management prepared for this? 210 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,699 Kevin Lucas: It's definitely a journey and I think educating people along 211 00:10:56,700 --> 00:10:58,800 Kevin Lucas: the way is important. So I spoke a minute ago 212 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,789 Kevin Lucas: about the value of the very disciplined and rigorous methodology. 213 00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:05,159 Kevin Lucas: And that, in part, is designed to take people on 214 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,949 Kevin Lucas: the journey. The analogy in venture capital is, you start 215 00:11:07,950 --> 00:11:09,540 Kevin Lucas: with a seed round and you build your way up 216 00:11:09,540 --> 00:11:12,000 Kevin Lucas: to your series A, B, C. And we apply the same 217 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,429 Kevin Lucas: logic in a corporate context. It's about going on the 218 00:11:14,429 --> 00:11:17,790 Kevin Lucas: journey and increasing your conviction and confidence at each step 219 00:11:17,790 --> 00:11:18,120 Kevin Lucas: of the way. 220 00:11:18,929 --> 00:11:20,700 Sean Aylmer: Kevin, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 221 00:11:21,179 --> 00:11:22,348 Kevin Lucas: My pleasure. Thanks for the time. 222 00:11:22,770 --> 00:11:26,098 Sean Aylmer: That was Kevin Lucas, managing director and partner at BCG 223 00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:28,828 Sean Aylmer: Digital Ventures, Sydney. This is the Fear and Greed daily 224 00:11:28,830 --> 00:11:31,078 Sean Aylmer: interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of 225 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,380 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean 226 00:11:34,410 --> 00:11:35,640 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer, enjoy your day.