1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: We've talked about retirement villages before and the costs of exiting, 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: particularly retirement villages. There's significant concern amongst many people who 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: find themselves in a situation where they want to get 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: out of a retirement village and find they're financially locked 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: in because the cost of leaving is excessive. Now, that 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: could be one example of regulation needed within the industry. 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: I'm sure there are others surrounding the operation of retirement villages. 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: Rebecca Sharki, independent MP for the federal seat of Mayo, 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: looking for urgent regulatory reforms to the retirement village sector 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: and moving emotion to that effect in Federal Parliament. Today. 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: She's on the line, Rebecca Sharky. 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 2: Good morning, good morning, Good to be with you. 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 1: What sort of changes would you like to see. 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: It's probably important to us as set the landscape retirement 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 2: villages is state legislation. So what we're seeing across the 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: nation is very different state legislation, very different level of 17 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: protections for residents, and ultimately, I just don't believe that 18 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 2: they're fit for purpose. It used to be back in 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: the eighties federal responsibility. The Feds back then handed it 20 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 2: over to states at the time, the retirement village industry 21 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 2: was a very small cottage industry. It was largely churches 22 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 2: and charitable organizations that provided a home that was low 23 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 2: maintenance for people who were potentially, you know, in that 24 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 2: phase of life where they couldn't manage their own home anymore. 25 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: What we've seen though, is that the private sector has 26 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: very much expanded this into a very large industry. And 27 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: I'm seeing so many cases where people can't afford to 28 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: leave where they know that the exit fees can pretend 29 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 2: or remodeling of the place that they are only paying 30 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: to have a right to occupy, they don't own the 31 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: bricks and mortar, and that it's leaving many unable to 32 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,399 Speaker 2: then move into age care if they need to as well, 33 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: even if they wanted to stay. So I think that 34 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: we need to have the national reform here again. I 35 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: think that we need to see this for what it is. 36 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: You are buying a financial product, and then if that 37 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 2: were so, you would have the agriple seed, you would 38 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: have the asiic like if you're buying any other financial product, 39 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: those sorts of financial protections, because there's very little protection 40 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: at the moment. It's a very unbalanced relationship. I've seen 41 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: many contracts that I would class as unfair contracts that 42 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: run into sixty seventy pages, and I think we need 43 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: to have some change here so that it is a 44 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 2: fair system. 45 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: So unfair contracts if we just look at that, are 46 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: you saying that because of the pages or the conditions 47 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: within them? 48 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 2: The pages algebraic formulas that calculates what your costs are 49 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: going to be upon exit of the retirement village. I've 50 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: seen some people who have been left with who have 51 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 2: had deducted from their amounts that they're set to receive 52 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: at the end their exit amount over one hundred thousand 53 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: for refurbishments of their unit that's really only a few 54 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 2: years old. And people have no power in that situation 55 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: and decision. They can't even choose who's going to pay 56 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: for the carpet I think carpet fields in excess of 57 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 2: four thousand dollars for a very small, effectively one bedroom studio. 58 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: So I think that if we had some federal oversight 59 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: of this, if we recognize it as what it is, 60 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 2: that you're not buying bricks and mortars, because that's the 61 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 2: other thing, you know, you get the keys moving into 62 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: a unit. But you are only buying a right to occupy. 63 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: You are not. You don't own that, and you are 64 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,119 Speaker 2: subject to the rules of the retirement village as part 65 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: of that occupan seat, and those rules can change at 66 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 2: any time, and indeed. 67 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: They do, Okay, who changes them? Do the residents have 68 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: a right to have a say? Do they get a 69 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: vote in the way the place operates? 70 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 2: No, they don't if that's all entirely by the operators. 71 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 2: I have had and I've heard from people all over 72 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: Australia on this issue, and I've been talking about this 73 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: in the Parliament's probably about eighteen months now, but I'm 74 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 2: really trying to kind of, you know, you do a 75 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: really big push to get Stephen Jones back. Then I 76 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: met with Stephen Jones, the Assistant Treasurer, and asked him 77 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: to look at it. He said he would, you know, 78 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 2: put it on an agenda to meet with the other 79 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 2: state ministers. And I've felt that the governor just kicked 80 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: this can down the road. So I'm now giving an 81 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 2: extra large push again and I'm really pushing the government 82 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: to act on this, and I think we're going to 83 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 2: see some action now. I think that we need to 84 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 2: potentially have an inquiry into the Federal Department so people 85 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 2: can share their stories, because what's happening now is people 86 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: are telling me in some cases, you know, really awful 87 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 2: stories of bullying, of lack of transparency and fairness in 88 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 2: relation to their fees, unilateral rule changes. As I said, 89 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: that's affecting resident freedoms. But they're so afraid that they're 90 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 2: going to have, you know, some kind of consequences from 91 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 2: where they live because they just have a right to occupy. 92 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 2: There was a case where one lady was a lifelong smoker. 93 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: She was smoking in her unit and as she was 94 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 2: effectively forced to leave because of that. So there are 95 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: you know, there can be some real restriction on freends. 96 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: I've got to say, I know many people are very 97 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: happy living in their retirements units, and not all village 98 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 2: operators are the same. But let's have some uniformity and 99 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: let's have some protections for residents as well. 100 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: All right, So that's what this legislation names. Your chances 101 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: with Stephen Jones the government are they likely to support? 102 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: Look, I would say that obviously the minister has a 103 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: lot on his plate and I have been a little 104 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: bit frustrated with his lack of action thus far. But 105 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 2: I think we're seeing a bit of a change of 106 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 2: heart of government and i'd like to think that we're 107 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: going to see some action in this space. And as 108 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 2: I said, you are buying a financial product. So if 109 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 2: you are buying any other sort of financial product, because 110 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 2: you're not buying bricks and watar so it must be 111 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 2: a financial product that you're buying with your money, we 112 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 2: would see protections. And I'm just asking for uniformity there 113 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: because i want people to be able to make decisions 114 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 2: with where they live with confidence. And so I'm going 115 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 2: to keep pushing this hard. I'm getting quite a few 116 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 2: other members of Parliament. I know Jackie Lamby certainly reached 117 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: out to me as well and said, hey, Deck, I 118 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: love what you're doing. Happy to support in anyway. So 119 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: there's quite a few of us now who are going, hey, 120 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: what's going on in retirement villagers? And do we need 121 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: to have federal oversight again? 122 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: All right? The fact comes down to people being penalized 123 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: heavily trying to get out. And I suppose if you're 124 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: a retiree, you invest your money getting in and then 125 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, you have a blue with somebody, you 126 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: can't live there anymore, the families moved away, you want 127 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: to move, you know, whatever the case may be, you 128 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: can't leave because you're locked in because of the high 129 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: exit fees, and if you spent a lot of money 130 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: getting in, there's not a lot of money left to 131 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: get out. 132 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. People are finding that they're going 133 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: in then maybe spending you know, four to fifty five 134 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: hundred thousand in some cases a lot more than that 135 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: going in, but they're to leave with a couple of 136 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: hundred thousand while all the properties around are going up. 137 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: We had one case where that they were sort of 138 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: the figures that went back to the person who was leaving. 139 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: The retirement village operator then remarketed and sold that unit 140 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 2: for over a million dollars after you know, there was 141 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: an agreement that look, you know, if you just take this, 142 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: you can take this amount now, or we can go 143 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: to market. That's the other thing. In some states they 144 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 2: can effectively hold on to hold on to it and 145 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: still charge those monthly fees or you know, anywhere north 146 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 2: of six months for a person after they've left, or 147 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: indeed just the estate if they've passed away. So really 148 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: at the moment, all the power sits with the retirement 149 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: village operator, and I just think we can have a 150 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: fairer system, a fair contract, clearer contract, so people know 151 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: exactly what they are going to be losing with respect 152 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 2: to their money should they need to leave for whatever reason. 153 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, indeed. All right, Well, good luck with the legislation, 154 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: hopefully you get it up. 155 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: Well, look, we're going to work really hard and that 156 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: way stop until we actually get some change here, because 157 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: I want people to have a good experience in retirement. 158 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: And I'm honestly every day I'm getting in my email 159 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: entray from right around Australia some of the saddest stories 160 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 2: that you could. 161 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: Ever read, I can imagine now talking of retirement and 162 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: where we're at in the electoral cycle, election looming, what 163 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: are your plans next time around? 164 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: You're standing again, absolutely, I'm certainly not retiring. No, absolutely, 165 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 2: I love my job. I think I've got the best 166 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: job in the world and I'm definitely putting myself forward 167 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: again to continue as our member for Mayo. 168 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 1: All right, good luck in that, Thank you, Thank you, 169 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: thanks so much. Rebecca Sharky, Independent for the federal seat 170 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: of Mayo on retirement villages and reforms needed across the nation. 171 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: Regulations to change is what she is calling for.