WEBVTT - What lies beneath | 8 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:08.039 I think, mister Carrell, is your name, Kevin Stephen Carrell. Yes, 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.760 it is, and you have been giving evidence in the inquest. Yes, 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.920 did you meet with Rochelle Childs on seven June two 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:17.320 thousand and one at Bargo? Absolutely not know? 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:27.960 Just days before Christmas in two thousand and six, Kevin 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.800 Corell is giving evidence of the inquest into the death 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:36.160 of Rochelle Child's. It's five years since Rochelle's murder. Unbeknownst 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.920 to Kevin, while he's on the stand at Glebe Coroner's Court, 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:44.640 Rochelle's body is beneath him in the same building, being 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.280 re examined by a forensic anthropologist. 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.240 Sitting in the start, Kevin Correll was told Rochelle's body 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:53.840 has recently been expered. 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:56.320 I didn't know that, replied mister Correll. 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.600 He hasn't been charged or other persons of interest have 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:00.760 now been cleared. 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.720 Counsel assisting the coroner, Peter Singleton, told him further post 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:08.520 Morgan examination has found at least one digit is not present, 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:11.040 its information police never made public. 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:15.919 Kevin Corell, a grandfather of three, strenuously denies any involvement, 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.160 and in court today tried to avoid taking the stand 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.120 his lawyer, claiming mister Correll might be tricked into giving 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:25.919 answers that suggest he's guilty. 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.039 I'm Ashley Hanson and you're listening to episode eight of 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:40.000 Dear Rochelle, a podcast by True Crime Australia. This is 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:45.399 the untold story of Rochelle Charles. In this episode, excerpts 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.560 from the coronial transcripts have all been voiced by actors, 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:53.200 including those of Kevin Correll. It's important to mention non 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:57.920 publication orders prevent us from revealing some witnesses and their evidence, 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.720 and even evidence from certain has been suppressed. Those court 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:07.360 orders still stand. Mister Carrel, who was Rochelle's boss at 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:11.640 Camden Holden, has always denied any involvement in the murder 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:16.079 of his young protogepe Rochelle Charles, and he's never been charged. 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.160 My name is Peter Singleton. I'm a barrister and I 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.400 was the counsel assisting the coroner in the inquest into 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:31.880 the death of Rochelle Chiles. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.880 Here's Peter Singleton reading his own opening address. 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:44.040 This matter has involved many victims. Rochelle Childs, of course, 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:48.160 is the primary victim. She has tragically lost her life, 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:52.000 her family have suffered greatly, and her friends have also suffered. 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.200 So too of other persons and their families when those 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.840 persons have come under police scrutiny for crime they did 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:02.520 not commit. And indeed, in this inquest, there will be 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:08.200 further pain as painful issues are necessarily canvassed. Even the 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.840 family of the killer is likely to suffer discomfort in 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.919 a number of ways in this inquest. I anticipate, given 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.239 the large number of witnesses that have to be called, 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.280 that family members of the killer will have to give evidence, 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:24.520 which is never a pleasant experience. I anticipate that they 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.359 will learn things about their family member that they did 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.960 not previously know, not just about this matter, but about 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:35.440 their personal background. Such suffering is regretted, but it is 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.600 necessary in pursuit of the important functions of this inquest. 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:47.040 The inquest ran over two years, with multiple adjournments. Almost 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.320 one hundred witnesses were called to give evidence. A Gleeb 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.880 coroners called in Sydney's in a West. The building was 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:57.000 on one of Sydney's busiest roads, Paramatta Road. 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.640 I would recall it as a as a brutalist type 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.960 of building seemed to be basically made of concrete with 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.800 a perhaps some pebble crete or some other weak attempt 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:20.040 at beauty, but essentially it was relatively dark inside, unattractive, unadorned, unappealing, 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.320 and unsympathetic to the people who had to be in it. 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.600 It had been five years without answers for Chelle's loved ones, 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.159 her sister Christie and her mum Anne can remember sitting 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:32.000 in the courtroom. 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.960 We were there every day, all day and it was 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:41.280 it was hard. It was hard listening to people talk 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:43.719 about it. It was hard listening to people refuse to 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:48.039 answer questions too. That was infuriating. If you've got nothing 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.600 to hide, why you're not answering questions. That was Kevin 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.080 who eventually refused to answer any more questions, which was 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:59.200 his right. But why wouldn't you just answer the questions? 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.680 Don't be an asshole? Alrighty O. 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:07.320 Little notes and listening and feeling sorry for those who 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.479 had to go through it. Listen, just look the same 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.680 way going through a sort of you know, because I 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.360 all cared about her, all the people and on the stand. 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.320 Can you give us some context around what led to 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.920 Rochelle's inquest being held In two thousand and six. 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:29.400 The police had conducted an investigation. They had a brief 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.080 of evidence, but it wasn't sufficient to lay any charges. 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.680 In this case, the state current had decided there should 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:37.520 be a hearing. 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:38.280 Or an inquest. 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:42.960 There were nine persons of interest. Is that unusual to 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:46.120 have so many persons of interest for homicide? 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.320 I think it probably is unusual. My experience may differ 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:54.280 from others, but it seems to me more than average. 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:59.920 Bear in mind that these investigations and in quests offer 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.880 need to be thorough and need to canvass all the possibilities. 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.600 We don't go into them with a closed mind. In 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.440 this case, there were nine people who had had some 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:14.360 connection to Rochelle in the periods leading up to her death. 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:22.560 All of that needed to be explored. Mister Carrell was 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:27.160 one of the nine people who were in proximity to 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:32.440 Rochelle at relevant times. There was evidence suggesting that he 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.800 would perhaps have wanted to have a personal relationship with 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:39.600 her beyond the workplace, and that he might have been 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.520 a person who was going to meet her at a 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:45.800 relevant time, and that needed to be explored. My recollection 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:47.640 is he was a fairly calm witness. 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.960 Let's return to some of Kevin's testimony. Kevin Carrell was 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:56.719 legally represented by Matthew Johnston, a criminal lawyer. You're about 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:59.880 to hear in exchange between Peter Singleton and Kevin car 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:01.760 Real voiced by actors. 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.120 The proposition is that, in the course of this inquiry, 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.920 by order of the coroner, Rochelle Child's body was exhumed 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:13.520 for a further post mortem examination. Do you understand that 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.160 I didn't know that, But I understand what you're saying 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:19.560 when you say you didn't know it. Today's the first 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.280 time you've heard it. Yes, I want you to understand that, 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.440 as a result of the examinations that have so far 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:29.880 been conducted of her person or her remains in this inquest, 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:34.800 there has been, for some reason discovered that at least 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:38.760 one digit, if not more than one digit, is not present. 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.680 Do you understand that? Do you understand what that means? 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:43.360 Yes. 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:52.080 During the course of the inquest, we received information that 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:56.520 one of the people of interest had brin spreading the 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:00.280 story that Rochelle had been killed by by Kisho would 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:05.000 cut off her fingers. The initial autopsy had not looked 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:09.200 at that or at least resolved that possibility. To the 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.640 coroner ordered that the body be exsumed and the second 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.840 autopsy be performed to see whether or not that could 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.440 be confirmed one way or the other. It was plainly 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:20.960 significant if it could be shown that the fingers had 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.520 been cut off, because that would be known only to 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:28.160 the murderers or someone the murderers had told, meaning that 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.400 the person sparing the story was either a murderer, had 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.559 been told by somebody, leading to a chain of inquiry, 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.679 or had just made something up that, by amazing coincidence, 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:40.200 matched the crime. 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:46.000 How extraordinary is that for a coroner to order the 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:47.959 exhumation of a body. 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:51.400 In my experience, it's very rare. I don't think that's 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.320 an uncommon experience. I think it is very rare, and 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.520 it is only done pursuant to a legal order. 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.720 And when they went back to the autops it wasn't 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.800 conclusive what had actually happened to her fingers, so they thought, 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:06.520 oh gosh, is their merit in this. 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.560 It's believed the initial autopsy conducted on Rochelle's badly burned 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:17.760 body acknowledged at least one finger was detached, but what 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.640 cause that detachment wasn't clear. Was it from the fire 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.760 or was it cut off by her killer. This was 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.280 a pivotal moment in the inquest. Could this be the 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:37.040 breakthrough police were waiting for? Rochelle's family was consulted in 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.920 a secret meeting about the prospect of exhuming her body. 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.000 They could legally fight the order, but they supported the 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:49.839 drastic measure in the hope the truth would be revealed. 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:57.520 When we went to Leppington to exume her. I wasn't 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.839 allowed to tell anyone. So the only people that knew 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.640 aside from New South I was police in the coroner, 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:08.280 was Mum and Dad. And I can't cope with their 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.400 emotions and they can't cope with mine. Like when we 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.440 go to break down, we go away from the others 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.520 because we're so close. We know what it does to 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.920 each other. So I couldn't sit with them. 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.040 It was just such an evasion, but they needed to 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:25.720 look for something. 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:31.480 Yeah, I remember sitting in the car with Detective Haywood, 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:35.199 who was like a my adopted big sister at the time. 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:37.160 Mum and Dad were in a different car because I 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.360 just again couldn't be with them when it happened out 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.880 at the cemetery, which you know, I go out there 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:47.280 a lot it's terrific, And we've followed the van into Glebe. 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:51.640 The whole way was really surreal. Following her on the 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:58.800 road and she was actually with the medical examiner at 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:03.000 the time that Heaven was on the stand giving evidence 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.200 or refusing to give evidence at the coroner's court. 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:08.560 I just got goose bombs. 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:15.079 But no, that was like a a knife in your back. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.600 I did tell the person who had been spreading the 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.440 story that the body had now been exhumed and was 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:33.280 now being autopsyed or was about to be. I asked 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.800 him to give evidence knowing that fact. 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.280 Did you try and use that situation to your advantage, 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:42.319 not to my advantage. 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:47.800 But what one is trying to do is get truthful evidence, 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:54.160 and there's a balance to be struck between pursuing that 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:59.599 and always ensuring that it's a fair procedure. So in 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.840 this case, mister Krell was the witness. Our purpose is 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:08.280 not to trap him unfairly, but to persuade him to 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.400 tell the truth. In this case, telling him that the 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:17.280 autopsy was underway or about to occur, informed him of 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.040 an important piece of information that in fairness he should know, 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:27.319 and also conveyed to him that the investigation was continuing, 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:32.240 further evidence may become available, and that it would be 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:36.160 best for him to tell the truth. And that's the 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.840 thinking behind that line of questioning. 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.400 I also want you to understand that some of her 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.520 digits from her hand were apparently not connected to the 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.320 rest of her body at the time, or as sorry, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:57.320 are not connected seem not to have been connected to 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.280 the rest of her body. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.960 Do you did you just understand that proposition? Yes? 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:07.280 And I want you to understand this important point. The 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.080 examination has not finished and we are yet to be 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.520 told the result the final result of all of the 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.960 investigations as to whether or not her hand or fingers 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.040 have in fact been cut off. That's a matter for 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.640 further forensic examination. It may be that they were not 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:28.000 cut off. We don't know the result. Do you understand 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:31.600 that mm hm. Is there anything you wish to say 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.560 to this court about the correlation between the fact that 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.920 you have been speaking, allegedly speaking to people about the 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.319 cutting off of her hand or fingers and the possibility 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.760 that indeed there has. 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.280 Been some severance of those parts of her body. 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:52.719 Nai Peter Singleton was pressing Kevin on information about Rochelle's 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:57.200 body that he allegedly circulated to other people, including his 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:01.880 former partners Alice and Evelyn. Last episode, Evelyn told it 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.400 she held some information back on the stand for fear 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.120 of hurting Rochelle's family, but she did call police the 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.000 following morning with crucial information. 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.240 Kevin, on a few different occasions too that I can recall, 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:26.000 said to me that Rachelle's fingers were severed by bikeys. 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.520 That's what you do when you steal from bikeys. Now, 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.440 I said, I'm sorry, but I just didn't want to 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.520 say that in front of her parents. I just didn't 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:46.720 want to. So with that, she said, okay, I don't 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.080 want you to talk about this to anybody, and I 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:51.880 will contact you tomorrow morning. 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:56.280 So twenty four hours had passed and she contacted. 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.120 Me and said that there's been a decision to exhume 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:00.720 Shell's body. 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.400 Like the rest of Rochelle's loved ones, the exhumation hit 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.600 her best friend Lisa heart. 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.200 The imagery that comes up, you know, when they tell 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.320 you that's what they're doing, You just you think of 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.600 her and you see her, but you see what she 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:25.920 probably could look like now, and a cold table in 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.880 a room and no one's hugging her and. 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:41.040 It was that was tough, just kind of brought her 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:46.960 back in many ways. Ah, and then you have hope 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.520 again this is going to lead to something. You know that, Yes, 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.040 this is a horror, but it's going to lead to something. 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:54.240 You couldn't think it up. 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:57.800 It's just yeah, the. 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:01.640 Blow after blow after blow, you just can't. Yeah, breaks 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:02.000 you down. 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:12.760 Let's see some more of Kevin's evidence. 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.400 Do you agree that in the days after Rochelle Childs 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.960 had been killed you undertook the task of cleaning out 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.800 her office, cleaning out her desk On the advice of 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.920 mister Johnston, I refuse to answer that question on the 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.240 grounds that it may incriminate me. In your view? Was 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.600 Rochelle Child's a fairly easy going, happy, go lucky type 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:36.120 of person? On the advice of mister Johnston, I refuse 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.280 to answer that question on the grounds that it may 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.600 incriminate me. Mister Correll, you indicated to beliefs that mss 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:47.080 Child's had recently broken up from a relationship with Shane Loats. 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:47.160 Didn't you. 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.880 On the advice of mister Johnston, I refuse to answer 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.640 that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me. 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.800 You also told police that you had overheard a conversation 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.120 about miss child going to a rebels party. Didn't you, 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.800 on the advice of mister Johnston, I refuse to answer 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:04.920 that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me. 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.000 You also told police about a married man called Bruce 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.280 that lived nearby her at Bargo, from whom Miss Childs 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.399 had received flowers at work. Didn't you, on the advice 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.040 of mister Johnston, I refuse to answer that question on 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.560 the grounds that it may incriminate me. You also told 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.960 police that she was seeing a male called Lee who 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.000 worked at Camden Bau Repairs. Didn't you, on the advice 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.520 of mister Johnston, I refuse to answer that question on 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.720 the grounds that it may incriminate me, and in so 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.080 giving information to police. As I've canvassed in the last, 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:42.720 approximately five questions you raised for the consideration of police investigation, Shaneloads, 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.320 the former boyfriend, the person whoever it may be, who 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.000 had swapped the car with her sash, and anyone else 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.280 to do with the rebels, Bruce, the neighbor, and Lee 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:57.240 of Bou Repairs. Five people who became persons of interest. 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.320 Didn't you on the advice of mister Johnston, I refuse 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:03.080 to answer that question on the grounds that it may 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:03.720 incriminate me. 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:05.919 But you did not raise with the police. 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.359 That Rochelle had met someone over the internet and gone 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.679 to see that person, did you, On the advice of 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.960 mister Johnston, I refuse to answer that question on the 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.800 grounds that it may incriminate me. Mister Carrell, did you 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.800 hear various rumors and other bits of informal information about 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:23.760 what had happened to Rochelle Child's On the advice of 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.080 mister Johnston, I refuse to answer that question on the 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:28.600 grounds that it may incriminate me. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.240 Kevin was legally entitled to exercise his right to silence. 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.119 The objections he took to answering questions are not to 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.880 be taken as any admission as to his guilt or innocence. 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:45.320 This case was dogged by red herrings. Remember in the beginning, 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.040 there was a vicious rumor that Rochelle had been killed 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.200 by barkies over a drug debt. It's now becoming clearer 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.280 who was involved in peddling that rumor. 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.160 He said that her fingers had been cut off because 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:01.560 she'd ripped off the rebels or something like that. 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.879 But because she was set a light that could have 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.439 just burnt and they need to look at that to 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.400 see if Singers was severed. 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.080 And it wasn't. Did the rebels do that? It was 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.480 it was definitely looking at Kevin, you know, did he 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:22.480 have information about what happened to her fingers? And if 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:23.439 he did, how did he know? 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:23.639 That? 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:24.880 It's horrible? 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:27.040 And then we buried her again. 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.480 MSS Childs had been led by someone to believe that 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.000 a Walk and Shaw commodore would be acquired by her 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.520 dealership at Camden Holden and would arrive on the eighth 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.680 of June two thousand and one. MS Childs generally made 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.840 no secret of her plans and movements. It seems that 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.280 it would be possible to account for nearly every day 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.720 of her life because she readily confided her activities to 0:19:55.800 --> 0:20:00.520 various friends and relatives, and importantly happily discussed a work, 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.080 especially in social telephone calls which were able to be overheard. 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.280 We'd organized for these drinks on the Thursday to go 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:13.320 and have a drink, and I said, I'm not going 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:15.359 to go. I've been on the phone all night. I'm 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.639 just going to go home. And we had that conversation 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.840 down in the train carriage where anybody could have heard 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:25.919 that conversation, that the plans had changed, that she was 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:27.159 just going straight home. 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.840 As of the morning of seven June two thousand and one, 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:38.520 and indeed probably as of lunchtime on that day, MSS 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:43.480 Childs had no special plans for Thursday evening. Yet by 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.720 that afternoon she had made a plan to meet someone 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.359 that evening. That plan was not communicated to any of 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.399 the friends and family members to whom Miss Childs usually 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:57.560 communicated her plans, probably simply because of the lateness of 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.040 the plan. MSS Child's had planned to attend work on 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.160 the Friday, not because she was rostered on that day, 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.359 but because she was expecting a walking share commodore to 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.200 be there and available for her use on that long weekend. 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.119 Because she had been killed, Mss Charles did not attend 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.399 work that Friday. The last matter I would mention in 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:21.480 this list your honor, is that no walking share commodore 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:23.280 in fact arrived at the dealership. 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.639 Peter Singleton wasn't the only one determined to get to 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.479 the bottom of this flashy ice blue car. 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.879 Heavin, her boss told her that a walking Shaw was 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.280 coming into the car yard and that she could have 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.880 it for the long weekend. So that was really exciting, 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:44.199 but we had to keep it quiet. 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:45.439 Yeah, I couldn't believe it. 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:47.440 I was like, oh my god, that's so exciting. I 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:50.920 was just like, that's so awesome because I knew how 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.520 much she loved Commodore's and at the time, I'm no 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.919 car person, but I know a Walking Shaw is like 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:01.640 one of the big cars, you know, like that adds 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.760 a special car, So I was excited for her. 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:09.399 Why the secrecy behind the Walking Shaw, I don't know 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:11.959 for sure, but I think because it was such a 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:16.080 classic and worth so much money, and back then it 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:18.840 was something that someone would want to steal. So it's 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:22.440 not something that you would publicize that you had one 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:24.240 of these and that you were going to be driving 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:27.160 it around because you didn't want it flogged. 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:31.879 Basically, let's go back to Jim Morrison. He was the 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:35.480 manager of Camden Holden where Rochelle and Kevin worked there. 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:39.800 I had no knowledge of one being negotiated on, traded 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:43.919 or anything. Never been discussed with me, and I'm pretty 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:47.199 sure through the business owner he checked that with the 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:49.960 other brands, just to see if any of the value 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.080 or managed so they're had any knowledge of it, and 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:57.560 by memory no, they didn't. So where this walking Shaws 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:02.439 suddenly materialized from and I never did materialize, there is 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:05.080 a bit of a mystery. It wouldn't be done secretly. 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:09.480 It's just too big a deal. And for Rochelle to 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:12.040 assume that it's coming in, we'll be told that it's 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:17.480 coming in. I'm not sure whether she's just naively believed 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:19.399 that or there was. 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:23.880 A bit of don't let you know. I don't think 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:24.440 that would. 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:28.359 Be necessarily a conversation. I'm more inclined to think it 0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:34.120 might have been just some sort of furfey. There's never 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:36.399 a walk in Shaw, but it was put up for 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:45.040 whatever reason, and I don't just yeh can't understand why. 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:48.439 With hindsight looking back and the secrecy that was around it. 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:51.440 Do you think there was another motivation behind keeping it 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:52.240 hush hush? 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:56.040 Looking back on it, I think that the walking share 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:59.000 is the key to this. I don't know whether it 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:02.480 existed or not, but the fact that she was so 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:04.560 excited about it and she had to keep it so 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:09.240 quiet and then no one ever spoke about it again. 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:12.840 To me, that's suspicious, and I think it needs to 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:16.439 be investigated. I think it's the key to this. I 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:19.720 just keep circling back to that. That's what she was 0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:22.520 excited about. That's what she was focused on. That's all 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:27.680 she could talk about, even though she wasn't supposed to. Yeah, 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:30.879 I think it's incredibly important that we get to the 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:34.879 bottom of this. It was promised to her. Why was 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:38.640 it promise to her? Was there actually a walking Shaw? 0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:46.520 On the last episode, we revealed explosive new evidence from 0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:50.400 Kevin's ex partner, who you know is Evlent. She told 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:53.480 us Kevin showed off a walking Shaw in his carport 0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:56.679 just a year after her murder at his unit on 0:24:56.760 --> 0:25:00.399 the South Coast at Marilla, which is just thirty meters 0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:02.440 north of where Rochelle's body was found. 0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:05.960 Evelyn approached me on Facebook because my friend Mindy and 0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:10.359 I have built a Facebook page, and she approached me 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:13.800 and I called her and I spoke to her for 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:15.679 probably about an hour and a half on the phone, 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.000