1 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: I think, mister Carrell, is your name, Kevin Stephen Carrell. Yes, 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: it is, and you have been giving evidence in the inquest. Yes, 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: did you meet with Rochelle Childs on seven June two 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: thousand and one at Bargo? Absolutely not know? 5 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: Just days before Christmas in two thousand and six, Kevin 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: Corell is giving evidence of the inquest into the death 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 2: of Rochelle Child's. It's five years since Rochelle's murder. Unbeknownst 8 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 2: to Kevin, while he's on the stand at Glebe Coroner's Court, 9 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: Rochelle's body is beneath him in the same building, being 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 2: re examined by a forensic anthropologist. 11 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 3: Sitting in the start, Kevin Correll was told Rochelle's body 12 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 3: has recently been expered. 13 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 4: I didn't know that, replied mister Correll. 14 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 5: He hasn't been charged or other persons of interest have 15 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 5: now been cleared. 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 3: Counsel assisting the coroner, Peter Singleton, told him further post 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 3: Morgan examination has found at least one digit is not present, 18 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 3: its information police never made public. 19 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,919 Speaker 4: Kevin Corell, a grandfather of three, strenuously denies any involvement, 20 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 4: and in court today tried to avoid taking the stand 21 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 4: his lawyer, claiming mister Correll might be tricked into giving 22 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,919 Speaker 4: answers that suggest he's guilty. 23 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 2: I'm Ashley Hanson and you're listening to episode eight of 24 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: Dear Rochelle, a podcast by True Crime Australia. This is 25 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 2: the untold story of Rochelle Charles. In this episode, excerpts 26 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: from the coronial transcripts have all been voiced by actors, 27 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 2: including those of Kevin Correll. It's important to mention non 28 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: publication orders prevent us from revealing some witnesses and their evidence, 29 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: and even evidence from certain has been suppressed. Those court 30 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: orders still stand. Mister Carrel, who was Rochelle's boss at 31 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: Camden Holden, has always denied any involvement in the murder 32 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 2: of his young protogepe Rochelle Charles, and he's never been charged. 33 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 6: My name is Peter Singleton. I'm a barrister and I 34 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 6: was the counsel assisting the coroner in the inquest into 35 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 6: the death of Rochelle Chiles. 36 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: Here's Peter Singleton reading his own opening address. 37 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 6: This matter has involved many victims. Rochelle Childs, of course, 38 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 6: is the primary victim. She has tragically lost her life, 39 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 6: her family have suffered greatly, and her friends have also suffered. 40 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 6: So too of other persons and their families when those 41 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 6: persons have come under police scrutiny for crime they did 42 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 6: not commit. And indeed, in this inquest, there will be 43 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 6: further pain as painful issues are necessarily canvassed. Even the 44 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 6: family of the killer is likely to suffer discomfort in 45 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 6: a number of ways in this inquest. I anticipate, given 46 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,239 Speaker 6: the large number of witnesses that have to be called, 47 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 6: that family members of the killer will have to give evidence, 48 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 6: which is never a pleasant experience. I anticipate that they 49 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 6: will learn things about their family member that they did 50 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 6: not previously know, not just about this matter, but about 51 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 6: their personal background. Such suffering is regretted, but it is 52 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 6: necessary in pursuit of the important functions of this inquest. 53 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: The inquest ran over two years, with multiple adjournments. Almost 54 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: one hundred witnesses were called to give evidence. A Gleeb 55 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: coroners called in Sydney's in a West. The building was 56 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: on one of Sydney's busiest roads, Paramatta Road. 57 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 6: I would recall it as a as a brutalist type 58 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 6: of building seemed to be basically made of concrete with 59 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 6: a perhaps some pebble crete or some other weak attempt 60 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 6: at beauty, but essentially it was relatively dark inside, unattractive, unadorned, unappealing, 61 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 6: and unsympathetic to the people who had to be in it. 62 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 2: It had been five years without answers for Chelle's loved ones, 63 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 2: her sister Christie and her mum Anne can remember sitting 64 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: in the courtroom. 65 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 7: We were there every day, all day and it was 66 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 7: it was hard. It was hard listening to people talk 67 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 7: about it. It was hard listening to people refuse to 68 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 7: answer questions too. That was infuriating. If you've got nothing 69 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 7: to hide, why you're not answering questions. That was Kevin 70 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 7: who eventually refused to answer any more questions, which was 71 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 7: his right. But why wouldn't you just answer the questions? 72 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 7: Don't be an asshole? Alrighty O. 73 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 8: Little notes and listening and feeling sorry for those who 74 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 8: had to go through it. Listen, just look the same 75 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 8: way going through a sort of you know, because I 76 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 8: all cared about her, all the people and on the stand. 77 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: Can you give us some context around what led to 78 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 2: Rochelle's inquest being held In two thousand and six. 79 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 6: The police had conducted an investigation. They had a brief 80 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 6: of evidence, but it wasn't sufficient to lay any charges. 81 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 6: In this case, the state current had decided there should 82 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 6: be a hearing. 83 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 9: Or an inquest. 84 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: There were nine persons of interest. Is that unusual to 85 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: have so many persons of interest for homicide? 86 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 6: I think it probably is unusual. My experience may differ 87 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 6: from others, but it seems to me more than average. 88 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 6: Bear in mind that these investigations and in quests offer 89 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 6: need to be thorough and need to canvass all the possibilities. 90 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 6: We don't go into them with a closed mind. In 91 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 6: this case, there were nine people who had had some 92 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 6: connection to Rochelle in the periods leading up to her death. 93 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 6: All of that needed to be explored. Mister Carrell was 94 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 6: one of the nine people who were in proximity to 95 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 6: Rochelle at relevant times. There was evidence suggesting that he 96 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 6: would perhaps have wanted to have a personal relationship with 97 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 6: her beyond the workplace, and that he might have been 98 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 6: a person who was going to meet her at a 99 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 6: relevant time, and that needed to be explored. My recollection 100 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 6: is he was a fairly calm witness. 101 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 2: Let's return to some of Kevin's testimony. Kevin Carrell was 102 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 2: legally represented by Matthew Johnston, a criminal lawyer. You're about 103 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: to hear in exchange between Peter Singleton and Kevin car 104 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: Real voiced by actors. 105 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: The proposition is that, in the course of this inquiry, 106 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: by order of the coroner, Rochelle Child's body was exhumed 107 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: for a further post mortem examination. Do you understand that 108 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know that, But I understand what you're saying 109 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: when you say you didn't know it. Today's the first 110 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: time you've heard it. Yes, I want you to understand that, 111 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: as a result of the examinations that have so far 112 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: been conducted of her person or her remains in this inquest, 113 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: there has been, for some reason discovered that at least 114 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: one digit, if not more than one digit, is not present. 115 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 9: Do you understand that? Do you understand what that means? 116 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 7: Yes. 117 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 6: During the course of the inquest, we received information that 118 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 6: one of the people of interest had brin spreading the 119 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 6: story that Rochelle had been killed by by Kisho would 120 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 6: cut off her fingers. The initial autopsy had not looked 121 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 6: at that or at least resolved that possibility. To the 122 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 6: coroner ordered that the body be exsumed and the second 123 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 6: autopsy be performed to see whether or not that could 124 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 6: be confirmed one way or the other. It was plainly 125 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 6: significant if it could be shown that the fingers had 126 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 6: been cut off, because that would be known only to 127 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 6: the murderers or someone the murderers had told, meaning that 128 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 6: the person sparing the story was either a murderer, had 129 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 6: been told by somebody, leading to a chain of inquiry, 130 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 6: or had just made something up that, by amazing coincidence, 131 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 6: matched the crime. 132 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: How extraordinary is that for a coroner to order the 133 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 2: exhumation of a body. 134 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 6: In my experience, it's very rare. I don't think that's 135 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 6: an uncommon experience. I think it is very rare, and 136 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 6: it is only done pursuant to a legal order. 137 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 7: And when they went back to the autops it wasn't 138 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 7: conclusive what had actually happened to her fingers, so they thought, 139 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 7: oh gosh, is their merit in this. 140 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 2: It's believed the initial autopsy conducted on Rochelle's badly burned 141 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: body acknowledged at least one finger was detached, but what 142 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 2: cause that detachment wasn't clear. Was it from the fire 143 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: or was it cut off by her killer. This was 144 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: a pivotal moment in the inquest. Could this be the 145 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: breakthrough police were waiting for? Rochelle's family was consulted in 146 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: a secret meeting about the prospect of exhuming her body. 147 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 2: They could legally fight the order, but they supported the 148 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 2: drastic measure in the hope the truth would be revealed. 149 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 7: When we went to Leppington to exume her. I wasn't 150 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 7: allowed to tell anyone. So the only people that knew 151 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 7: aside from New South I was police in the coroner, 152 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 7: was Mum and Dad. And I can't cope with their 153 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 7: emotions and they can't cope with mine. Like when we 154 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 7: go to break down, we go away from the others 155 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 7: because we're so close. We know what it does to 156 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 7: each other. So I couldn't sit with them. 157 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 8: It was just such an evasion, but they needed to 158 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 8: look for something. 159 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 7: Yeah, I remember sitting in the car with Detective Haywood, 160 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 7: who was like a my adopted big sister at the time. 161 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 7: Mum and Dad were in a different car because I 162 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 7: just again couldn't be with them when it happened out 163 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 7: at the cemetery, which you know, I go out there 164 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 7: a lot it's terrific, And we've followed the van into Glebe. 165 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 7: The whole way was really surreal. Following her on the 166 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 7: road and she was actually with the medical examiner at 167 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 7: the time that Heaven was on the stand giving evidence 168 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 7: or refusing to give evidence at the coroner's court. 169 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 10: I just got goose bombs. 170 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 8: But no, that was like a a knife in your back. 171 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 6: I did tell the person who had been spreading the 172 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 6: story that the body had now been exhumed and was 173 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 6: now being autopsyed or was about to be. I asked 174 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 6: him to give evidence knowing that fact. 175 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 2: Did you try and use that situation to your advantage, 176 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 2: not to my advantage. 177 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 6: But what one is trying to do is get truthful evidence, 178 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 6: and there's a balance to be struck between pursuing that 179 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,599 Speaker 6: and always ensuring that it's a fair procedure. So in 180 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 6: this case, mister Krell was the witness. Our purpose is 181 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 6: not to trap him unfairly, but to persuade him to 182 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 6: tell the truth. In this case, telling him that the 183 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 6: autopsy was underway or about to occur, informed him of 184 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 6: an important piece of information that in fairness he should know, 185 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 6: and also conveyed to him that the investigation was continuing, 186 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 6: further evidence may become available, and that it would be 187 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 6: best for him to tell the truth. And that's the 188 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 6: thinking behind that line of questioning. 189 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: I also want you to understand that some of her 190 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: digits from her hand were apparently not connected to the 191 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: rest of her body at the time, or as sorry, 192 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: are not connected seem not to have been connected to 193 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: the rest of her body. 194 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 9: Do you did you just understand that proposition? Yes? 195 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: And I want you to understand this important point. The 196 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: examination has not finished and we are yet to be 197 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: told the result the final result of all of the 198 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: investigations as to whether or not her hand or fingers 199 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: have in fact been cut off. That's a matter for 200 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: further forensic examination. It may be that they were not 201 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: cut off. We don't know the result. Do you understand 202 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: that mm hm. Is there anything you wish to say 203 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: to this court about the correlation between the fact that 204 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: you have been speaking, allegedly speaking to people about the 205 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 1: cutting off of her hand or fingers and the possibility 206 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: that indeed there has. 207 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 9: Been some severance of those parts of her body. 208 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 2: Nai Peter Singleton was pressing Kevin on information about Rochelle's 209 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 2: body that he allegedly circulated to other people, including his 210 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 2: former partners Alice and Evelyn. Last episode, Evelyn told it 211 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: she held some information back on the stand for fear 212 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 2: of hurting Rochelle's family, but she did call police the 213 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: following morning with crucial information. 214 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 5: Kevin, on a few different occasions too that I can recall, 215 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 5: said to me that Rachelle's fingers were severed by bikeys. 216 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 5: That's what you do when you steal from bikeys. Now, 217 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 5: I said, I'm sorry, but I just didn't want to 218 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 5: say that in front of her parents. I just didn't 219 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 5: want to. So with that, she said, okay, I don't 220 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 5: want you to talk about this to anybody, and I 221 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 5: will contact you tomorrow morning. 222 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 11: So twenty four hours had passed and she contacted. 223 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 5: Me and said that there's been a decision to exhume 224 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 5: Shell's body. 225 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 2: Like the rest of Rochelle's loved ones, the exhumation hit 226 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: her best friend Lisa heart. 227 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 12: The imagery that comes up, you know, when they tell 228 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 12: you that's what they're doing, You just you think of 229 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 12: her and you see her, but you see what she 230 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 12: probably could look like now, and a cold table in 231 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 12: a room and no one's hugging her and. 232 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 13: It was that was tough, just kind of brought her 233 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 13: back in many ways. Ah, and then you have hope 234 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 13: again this is going to lead to something. You know that, Yes, 235 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 13: this is a horror, but it's going to lead to something. 236 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 13: You couldn't think it up. 237 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 7: It's just yeah, the. 238 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 13: Blow after blow after blow, you just can't. Yeah, breaks 239 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 13: you down. 240 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 10: Let's see some more of Kevin's evidence. 241 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: Do you agree that in the days after Rochelle Childs 242 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: had been killed you undertook the task of cleaning out 243 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: her office, cleaning out her desk On the advice of 244 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: mister Johnston, I refuse to answer that question on the 245 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: grounds that it may incriminate me. In your view? Was 246 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: Rochelle Child's a fairly easy going, happy, go lucky type 247 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: of person? On the advice of mister Johnston, I refuse 248 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: to answer that question on the grounds that it may 249 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: incriminate me. Mister Correll, you indicated to beliefs that mss 250 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: Child's had recently broken up from a relationship with Shane Loats. 251 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 9: Didn't you. 252 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: On the advice of mister Johnston, I refuse to answer 253 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me. 254 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: You also told police that you had overheard a conversation 255 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: about miss child going to a rebels party. Didn't you, 256 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: on the advice of mister Johnston, I refuse to answer 257 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me. 258 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: You also told police about a married man called Bruce 259 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: that lived nearby her at Bargo, from whom Miss Childs 260 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: had received flowers at work. Didn't you, on the advice 261 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: of mister Johnston, I refuse to answer that question on 262 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: the grounds that it may incriminate me. You also told 263 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: police that she was seeing a male called Lee who 264 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: worked at Camden Bau Repairs. Didn't you, on the advice 265 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: of mister Johnston, I refuse to answer that question on 266 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: the grounds that it may incriminate me, and in so 267 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: giving information to police. As I've canvassed in the last, 268 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: approximately five questions you raised for the consideration of police investigation, Shaneloads, 269 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: the former boyfriend, the person whoever it may be, who 270 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: had swapped the car with her sash, and anyone else 271 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: to do with the rebels, Bruce, the neighbor, and Lee 272 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: of Bou Repairs. Five people who became persons of interest. 273 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: Didn't you on the advice of mister Johnston, I refuse 274 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: to answer that question on the grounds that it may 275 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: incriminate me. 276 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 9: But you did not raise with the police. 277 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: That Rochelle had met someone over the internet and gone 278 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: to see that person, did you, On the advice of 279 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: mister Johnston, I refuse to answer that question on the 280 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: grounds that it may incriminate me. Mister Carrell, did you 281 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: hear various rumors and other bits of informal information about 282 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: what had happened to Rochelle Child's On the advice of 283 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: mister Johnston, I refuse to answer that question on the 284 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: grounds that it may incriminate me. 285 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 2: Kevin was legally entitled to exercise his right to silence. 286 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 2: The objections he took to answering questions are not to 287 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 2: be taken as any admission as to his guilt or innocence. 288 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 2: This case was dogged by red herrings. Remember in the beginning, 289 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 2: there was a vicious rumor that Rochelle had been killed 290 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 2: by barkies over a drug debt. It's now becoming clearer 291 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 2: who was involved in peddling that rumor. 292 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 7: He said that her fingers had been cut off because 293 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 7: she'd ripped off the rebels or something like that. 294 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 8: But because she was set a light that could have 295 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 8: just burnt and they need to look at that to 296 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 8: see if Singers was severed. 297 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 7: And it wasn't. Did the rebels do that? It was 298 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 7: it was definitely looking at Kevin, you know, did he 299 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 7: have information about what happened to her fingers? And if 300 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 7: he did, how did he know? 301 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 14: That? 302 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 10: It's horrible? 303 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 7: And then we buried her again. 304 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 6: MSS Childs had been led by someone to believe that 305 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 6: a Walk and Shaw commodore would be acquired by her 306 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 6: dealership at Camden Holden and would arrive on the eighth 307 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 6: of June two thousand and one. MS Childs generally made 308 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 6: no secret of her plans and movements. It seems that 309 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 6: it would be possible to account for nearly every day 310 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 6: of her life because she readily confided her activities to 311 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 6: various friends and relatives, and importantly happily discussed a work, 312 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 6: especially in social telephone calls which were able to be overheard. 313 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 15: We'd organized for these drinks on the Thursday to go 314 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 15: and have a drink, and I said, I'm not going 315 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 15: to go. I've been on the phone all night. I'm 316 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 15: just going to go home. And we had that conversation 317 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 15: down in the train carriage where anybody could have heard 318 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 15: that conversation, that the plans had changed, that she was 319 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 15: just going straight home. 320 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 6: As of the morning of seven June two thousand and one, 321 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 6: and indeed probably as of lunchtime on that day, MSS 322 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 6: Childs had no special plans for Thursday evening. Yet by 323 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 6: that afternoon she had made a plan to meet someone 324 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 6: that evening. That plan was not communicated to any of 325 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 6: the friends and family members to whom Miss Childs usually 326 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 6: communicated her plans, probably simply because of the lateness of 327 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 6: the plan. MSS Child's had planned to attend work on 328 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 6: the Friday, not because she was rostered on that day, 329 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 6: but because she was expecting a walking share commodore to 330 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 6: be there and available for her use on that long weekend. 331 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 6: Because she had been killed, Mss Charles did not attend 332 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 6: work that Friday. The last matter I would mention in 333 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 6: this list your honor, is that no walking share commodore 334 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 6: in fact arrived at the dealership. 335 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: Peter Singleton wasn't the only one determined to get to 336 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,479 Speaker 2: the bottom of this flashy ice blue car. 337 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 7: Heavin, her boss told her that a walking Shaw was 338 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 7: coming into the car yard and that she could have 339 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 7: it for the long weekend. So that was really exciting, 340 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 7: but we had to keep it quiet. 341 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 10: Yeah, I couldn't believe it. 342 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 15: I was like, oh my god, that's so exciting. I 343 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 15: was just like, that's so awesome because I knew how 344 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 15: much she loved Commodore's and at the time, I'm no 345 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 15: car person, but I know a Walking Shaw is like 346 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 15: one of the big cars, you know, like that adds 347 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 15: a special car, So I was excited for her. 348 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 7: Why the secrecy behind the Walking Shaw, I don't know 349 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,959 Speaker 7: for sure, but I think because it was such a 350 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 7: classic and worth so much money, and back then it 351 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 7: was something that someone would want to steal. So it's 352 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 7: not something that you would publicize that you had one 353 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 7: of these and that you were going to be driving 354 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 7: it around because you didn't want it flogged. 355 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 2: Basically, let's go back to Jim Morrison. He was the 356 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 2: manager of Camden Holden where Rochelle and Kevin worked there. 357 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 16: I had no knowledge of one being negotiated on, traded 358 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 16: or anything. Never been discussed with me, and I'm pretty 359 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 16: sure through the business owner he checked that with the 360 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 16: other brands, just to see if any of the value 361 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 16: or managed so they're had any knowledge of it, and 362 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 16: by memory no, they didn't. So where this walking Shaws 363 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 16: suddenly materialized from and I never did materialize, there is 364 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 16: a bit of a mystery. It wouldn't be done secretly. 365 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 16: It's just too big a deal. And for Rochelle to 366 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 16: assume that it's coming in, we'll be told that it's 367 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 16: coming in. I'm not sure whether she's just naively believed 368 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 16: that or there was. 369 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 9: A bit of don't let you know. I don't think 370 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 9: that would. 371 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 16: Be necessarily a conversation. I'm more inclined to think it 372 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 16: might have been just some sort of furfey. There's never 373 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 16: a walk in Shaw, but it was put up for 374 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 16: whatever reason, and I don't just yeh can't understand why. 375 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 2: With hindsight looking back and the secrecy that was around it. 376 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 2: Do you think there was another motivation behind keeping it 377 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 2: hush hush? 378 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 7: Looking back on it, I think that the walking share 379 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 7: is the key to this. I don't know whether it 380 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 7: existed or not, but the fact that she was so 381 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 7: excited about it and she had to keep it so 382 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 7: quiet and then no one ever spoke about it again. 383 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 7: To me, that's suspicious, and I think it needs to 384 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 7: be investigated. I think it's the key to this. I 385 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 7: just keep circling back to that. That's what she was 386 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 7: excited about. That's what she was focused on. That's all 387 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 7: she could talk about, even though she wasn't supposed to. Yeah, 388 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 7: I think it's incredibly important that we get to the 389 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 7: bottom of this. It was promised to her. Why was 390 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 7: it promise to her? Was there actually a walking Shaw? 391 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 2: On the last episode, we revealed explosive new evidence from 392 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 2: Kevin's ex partner, who you know is Evlent. She told 393 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 2: us Kevin showed off a walking Shaw in his carport 394 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 2: just a year after her murder at his unit on 395 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 2: the South Coast at Marilla, which is just thirty meters 396 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 2: north of where Rochelle's body was found. 397 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 7: Evelyn approached me on Facebook because my friend Mindy and 398 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 7: I have built a Facebook page, and she approached me 399 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 7: and I called her and I spoke to her for 400 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 7: probably about an hour and a half on the phone, 401 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 7: asking lots of questions. 402 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 5: Around eight o'clock in the evening, I had had a 403 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 5: few phone calls with Christy and. 404 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 7: We sorry, sorry, sweetie. 405 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 5: Talking to her, I realized that you know, it's it's 406 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 5: not just a story in a paper. 407 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 11: It is somebody's child, and it's and sister and whatnot. 408 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 10: And she was obviously very careful with what she said. 409 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 5: To me, but the information that I obviously knew, nobody 410 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 5: knew and I didn't know that when we were talking 411 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 5: at the time. She did say to me, had you 412 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 5: ever gone to his home? And I said yes, I had. 413 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 7: So I asked her just to think about when she 414 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 7: was at Kevin's unit at Waulah, and I just asked 415 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 7: her what did she notice? What could she see? 416 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 5: And I told her the story about me being unwell 417 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 5: and what the house looked like, and. 418 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 7: We're on the walls, what was on the floor, what 419 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 7: was she stepping on? What did she said that? 420 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 5: He had a big knife that was on his bed 421 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 5: head hanging. 422 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 7: Was there anything unusual? 423 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 10: So where did you go? 424 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 5: And I said, well, we walked out the front door 425 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 5: to go across to the beach. 426 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 11: And he said, oh, come and have a look at 427 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 11: my car. 428 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 7: And it's incredible that that's when this piece of information 429 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 7: came out, because I just said, what do you know? 430 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 5: I want to show you my pride and joy and 431 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 5: we were just talking about that. 432 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 11: She went, oh, okay, so nothing else. I said, yeah, 433 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 11: he had. 434 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 5: Like a like a silvery blue colored car. I said 435 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 5: it was a walking Shaw. I said, I remember the 436 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 5: name because I always thought it was a pretty ass. 437 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 7: She said, oh yeah, he had one of those walking 438 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 7: Shaw cars in his car port. And I nearly fainted. 439 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 5: She said to me, it was what And she stopped 440 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 5: for a moment, and I thought, oh, my god, if 441 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 5: I said something I shouldn't say. 442 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 7: And then I asked her, are you sure, and she. 443 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 11: Said, please tell me what you said again. 444 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 2: So I did. 445 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 7: Described to me what a walking Shaw looks like, and 446 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,719 Speaker 7: she described it, and she remembered having a conversation with 447 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 7: her son at the time, who was a car fan, 448 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 7: and he said to her, oh, yeah, no, that's a 449 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 7: really that's a classic. That's a very expensive car. She 450 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 7: was only ever asked by the police what he drove, 451 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 7: so she didn't think it was important. 452 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 5: She said, Evelyn, you didn't say that in your police statement, 453 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 5: the name of the car, And I said no, I 454 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 5: told them that he had a really fancy, expensive looking 455 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 5: silverish car. 456 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 7: She was only ever asked by the police what he drove, 457 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 7: so she didn't think it was important. 458 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 5: I said, you never said the name of it, and 459 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 5: I said, well, I didn't really think that was important 460 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 5: what kind of brand it was. They just asked me 461 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 5: what kind of car he had. 462 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 7: So the fact that she saw a walking short in 463 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 7: the caryard at his unit block he's significant. 464 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 2: Was this an oversight by police? Here's Evelyn reading from 465 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: a subsequent statement to police in two thousand and seven. 466 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 5: I then thought of my relationship with Kevin Carrell between 467 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 5: November two thousand and two until February two thousand and three. 468 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 11: I recalled that whilst I was with. 469 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 5: Kevin, he had four different new cars during that time. 470 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 5: They'd be secondhand, but quite new and expensive cars. I 471 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 5: recall the very first time that I met Kep and 472 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 5: he had a black Sleka sports car. The car looked 473 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 5: to be brand new. It was very impressive. He had 474 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 5: this car for a couple of weeks and I never 475 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 5: saw this car again. The next car I saw Kevin 476 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 5: with was a silver Fancy Commodore. He only had this 477 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 5: car for about four weeks. 478 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 11: I said that and she went, oh my god. And 479 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 11: that's how she told me the story. 480 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 7: And that's a piece of information that wasn't gathered by 481 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 7: police because their line of questioning wasn't open enough. In 482 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 7: my opinion, that's very important. 483 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 2: Do you think that needs to be investigated now by police? 484 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 7: Definitely, and they know because everyone has communicated that to police. 485 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: While the inquest was still under weigh In April two 486 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 2: thousand and seven, police assigned detect is to track down 487 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 2: every single hold and walk and Shaw ever manufactured, all 488 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 2: seven hundred and fifty of the limited models. Detective Seney 489 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 2: Constable Eric and Nuttle, assisted by Detective Sendy Constable Sally Clark, 490 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,719 Speaker 2: would tasked with interviewing every owner and asking them the 491 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 2: same eight questions. 492 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 10: One were you. 493 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 2: The registered owner of a Holden Commodore Group a Walkinshaw 494 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 2: motor vehicle on the seventh of June two thousand and one. 495 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 10: Two Do you know Kevin Correll? Three? 496 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 2: Have you ever been approached by Kevin Correll to borrow 497 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: your Walkinshaw motor vehicle on or around June two thousand 498 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 2: and one. Four Do you know Rochelle Charles? 499 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 10: Five? 500 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 2: Have you ever been approached by Rochelle Child to borrow 501 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 2: your Walkinshaw on or around June two thousand and one. 502 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 2: Six Have you ever had any dealings with Camden Holden 503 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 2: on or around June to thousand and one seven. Has 504 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 2: any employee from Camden Holden ever approached you to borrow 505 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: your walking Shaw on or around June two thousand and 506 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 2: one eight? Is there any further information you have that 507 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 2: may assist this investigation? It took them months to complete 508 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: that mammoth task, but they found no connection between any 509 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 2: registered walking Shaws and Kevin Carrell, Rochelle Childs, or Camden Holden. 510 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 2: But as was acknowledged in the last line of Detective 511 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 2: Nuttles statement, the information does not capture vehicles that have 512 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: been fitted with body kits or accessories. 513 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 10: To look like genuine Walkinshaw vehicles. 514 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 2: Basically, there are fakes out there, other commodols kitted out 515 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 2: to look like walking shorts, and because they're not registered 516 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 2: as walking shaws, it's impossible to account for them all. 517 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 2: Let's hear from Ben Hill, a family friend of the 518 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 2: child's and a car mechanic who specializes in high performance vehicles. 519 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 2: You'll remember his voice from earlier episodes when he assessed 520 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 2: Rochelle's beloved Holden. How difficult is it to distinguish between 521 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 2: an authentic walking share and a fake. 522 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,239 Speaker 17: It's very difficult unless you're a trained expert or an 523 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 17: obsessive collector. If if one drove past or were pulled 524 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 17: up in a car park, you wouldn't be able to 525 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 17: spot the difference with the amount of reproduction stuff that 526 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 17: you can buy and could even buy then to make 527 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 17: a mock up. 528 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 10: So how to talk me through that? 529 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 2: How does that process play out if someone's trying to 530 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 2: fake a walkie? 531 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 17: Basically, if somebody knew somebody and they could buy something 532 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 17: in the black market, then they were buying body kits 533 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 17: and they were buying twin throts and rebirthing a six 534 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 17: cylinder vel commodol and it was actually re using all 535 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 17: the original components off a walking shore. 536 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 2: Knowing Rochelle, if she was promised a walking shaw for 537 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 2: that June Long weekend, she would have jumped off. 538 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 17: The Harbor bridge for that. Yeah, if there's an opportunity 539 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 17: to drive a b in it, she would have. Yeah, 540 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 17: would have given up a left leg to to have 541 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 17: that opportunity to drive that car. 542 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: I believe. 543 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 2: And would she have known if it was a fake? 544 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 14: Oh? 545 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 9: I don't believe. 546 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 17: So Again, if it was parked there with a bonnet 547 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 17: shut and it had replica everything on it, it would 548 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 17: look like a walkie if it was in the garage, said, 549 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 17: unless you're a train collector and you know what to 550 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 17: look for. If you just opened the rollers and the 551 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 17: light was turned on and it looked like a walkie, 552 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 17: you'd think it was a walkie. If it had the 553 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 17: right interior, the right paint, the right wheels, the right stickers, 554 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 17: you'd definitely believe it. 555 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 2: So it's possible Rochelle's boss, Kevin Carrell, had access to 556 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 2: or rowned a fake walking shaw at the time of 557 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 2: Rochelle's murder and police would have been none the wiser. 558 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 2: Let's break this down with Damien. 559 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 18: The walking shaw comes into it the fact that she 560 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 18: just promised to have one for the weekend that weekend 561 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 18: and to find that Kevin Carrell's got one in and 562 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 18: seen the year later in a garage of the premises 563 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 18: on not far from Girauah on the in the Ilawarra. 564 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 18: Was that ever discovered at the time, because it sort 565 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 18: of concerns me. 566 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 7: Would police at the time had known if he had 567 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 7: a walking Shaw they would have. 568 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 18: But as long as the vehicle was registered in his name. 569 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 18: If it wasn't in his name, then no, they wouldn't 570 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 18: have known. 571 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 10: What about if it was a fake walking show. 572 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 18: No, because the model doesn't come up on the RTA 573 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 18: records as being a particular. It only comes up the 574 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 18: standard model of the vehicle. So it say it was 575 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 18: a v VB model made to look like a walking show. 576 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 18: It only say it's a VB. It wouldn't say it's 577 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 18: a walking shore. It's only a kit goes on it 578 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 18: makes you look like a carb. 579 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 2: I'm keen to tell Peter Singleton about this possible breakthrough. 580 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 2: Someone has come forward saying that they saw Kevin in 581 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 2: possession of an alleged walking shaw a year after Rochelle's murder. 582 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 2: Do you think that's of interest and should that be 583 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 2: something that police should be looking at today? 584 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 6: Yes, I would say it would be of interest. I 585 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 6: can't comment on police resorts and they've got a lot 586 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 6: of other work to do, but it would strike me 587 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 6: that the information should be followed up. Most likely explanation 588 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 6: would be that he's acquired an interesting walking shaws himself, 589 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 6: but of course the police will want to know when 590 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 6: he got it and did he have it back in 591 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 6: two thousand and one? 592 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 2: Did it have to be his could it had just 593 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 2: been a walking shaw that he had access to. 594 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 6: Potentially potentially, I mean a possibility is that he or 595 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 6: whoever it was, borrowed a Walkinshaw and took her for 596 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 6: a drive. And maybe it was just to impress Rachelle 597 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 6: in the hope of a return favor that was never forthcoming, 598 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 6: leading to violence. So there are possibilities. Undoubtedly, the Walkenshaw 599 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 6: featured heavily in this inquest for various reasons, and it 600 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 6: is a matter that should be followed up. Someone's got 601 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:53,720 Speaker 6: this information, they should be interviewed. 602 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 2: Given the war sure was a major focus in the inquest, 603 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 2: it is possible people's memories could be contaminated unintentionally. Here's 604 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,240 Speaker 2: Damien Well. 605 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 18: You really have to be careful in relation to the 606 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 18: witness's contamination, in particular when the evidence is laid bare 607 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 18: at any inquest or perhaps trial, you really have to 608 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 18: be careful of. 609 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 13: How they are. 610 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 18: Forming their thoughts and their what they think they saw 611 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 18: or heard. And they weren't compromised by any other witnesses 612 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 18: who may have said something else and they're just following 613 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 18: the line that they saw or heard. 614 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 2: It was clear the inquest was very interested in Kevin 615 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 2: Corell's behavior before and after Rachelle's murder. Several witnesses were 616 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 2: called to give evidence about their interactions with Kevin. Here's 617 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 2: Peter Singleton recapping a witness who testified that Kevin had 618 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 2: made a trouble and comment. Just three days before Rochelle 619 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 2: was murdered and her body set on fire. 620 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 6: A friend of Rochelle, who was a firefighter or a 621 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 6: volunteer firefighter, happened to be visiting Rochelle at work and 622 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 6: was talking to Rochelle outside sales the used car sales 623 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 6: manager's office, which is actually an old train carriage. From memory, 624 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 6: Rochelle asked the friend whether she had ever seen a 625 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 6: dead body or something to that effect. The answer was no, 626 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 6: and somehow that the conversation got into this murky territory. 627 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 6: But mister Carrell came out of the carriage and was 628 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 6: physically higher than them, looking down upon them, and did 629 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 6: make the comment that burning a body would be a 630 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 6: good way to get rid of a murder victim. 631 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 2: I asked Peter Singleton to explain how much weight he 632 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 2: placed on that particular comment. 633 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 6: Well, of course, it's interesting because Rochelle's body was burned 634 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 6: by whoever did it. By itself, that means nothing. Anybody 635 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,800 Speaker 6: could have said that. Many people have said such things 636 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 6: that they haven't committed murders. But it's an example of 637 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 6: a tiny circumstance that can be added with a lot 638 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 6: of other circumstances to build a fuller picture. I'm not 639 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:33,879 Speaker 6: suggesting that mister Carrell was planning to murder Roselle when 640 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 6: he said that and burn her body, but in theory, 641 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 6: if you had other evidence, you could use that to 642 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 6: be evidence of premeditation as distinct from an accident, if 643 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 6: it ever came to having to resolve that conundrum. It 644 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 6: is strangely not uncommon for murderers to make comments to 645 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 6: other people about how they would dispose of the body 646 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 6: or how they would kill someone if they were ever 647 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 6: minded to do so, but of course deny that they 648 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,240 Speaker 6: ever would. I don't understand the mind of a murderer 649 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,240 Speaker 6: well enough to know why they would say such things, 650 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,839 Speaker 6: but they do. Again, mister Corell may just have been 651 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 6: victim of an unfortunate coincidence when he said that it's 652 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 6: only a tiny piece of evidence. 653 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 2: The topic of fire was a common line of questioning 654 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 2: by Peter Singleton. Now for the first time you're going 655 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 2: to hear about evidence from a key witness, Kevin's ex partner, 656 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 2: who you know as Alice. She lived with Kevin for 657 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 2: almost a year before she told him to move out. 658 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 2: It was subsequently discovered he'd moved out in the months 659 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 2: prior to Rochelle's death. This is not her voice, but 660 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 2: here is part of her evidence at the inquest. 661 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 9: Did Kevin have a preferred method of getting rid of rubbish? 662 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:55,839 Speaker 2: Yes? 663 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 9: Was it to go to the tech with it? 664 00:39:58,640 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 14: No? 665 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 9: No, What did he like to do? 666 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 19: Kevin liked to burn rubbish? And yes, he liked to 667 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 19: burn rubbish. Burn things. I'd cleaned out a whole lot 668 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 19: of paperwork and you know things that I put I've 669 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 19: got a little shit up the very back of my 670 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 19: property and I put a whole lot of stuff there 671 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 19: to be taken to the tip or disposed of in 672 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 19: some way. 673 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 10: And he said he'd get rid of that for me. 674 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 19: And on one particular day, I think I was having 675 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 19: my car washed, so I had some items in my 676 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 19: car that I took out of my car and put there, 677 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 19: thinking they'd be safe. They were in bags, white garbage bags. 678 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 19: They didn't look like rubbish to me. 679 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 9: But anyway, even though they were in garbage bags. 680 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,720 Speaker 19: Well, but they were in white garbage bags. The rest 681 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 19: of the rubbish was rubbish like, it was all like 682 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 19: strewn there to be disposed of. But these bags, and 683 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 19: I don't even think they were all white garbage bags, 684 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 19: but I'd put things in. There was a beach bag 685 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 19: which had my swimming stuff in it. There's a swimming 686 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 19: costume in there that he didn't like me wearing. That 687 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 19: was in that bag. There was my I had a diploma, 688 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 19: an original one, one of those beautiful diplomas that I 689 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 19: had gained. And when I came home that day, the 690 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 19: whole lot had been burnt, all the rubbish and all 691 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 19: my things. And I just couldn't believe that he had 692 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 19: just gone ahead and burnt things indiscriminately, including my belongings 693 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 19: which didn't look like rubbish, which were put apart from 694 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:23,320 Speaker 19: the rubbish. 695 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 2: After she broke up with Kevin, Alice began a relationship 696 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 2: with Colin. You've heard him on Deer Rochelle before because 697 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 2: Alice told him quite a lot about Kevin. Did Kevin 698 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 2: ever use this fire pit, because Alice has given evidence 699 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 2: that he used to have fires in the backyard. 700 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 20: The shed that was up the back was more like 701 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 20: a bit of an open sort of shed that was 702 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 20: very old. There had been a fire had been built 703 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 20: in the middle of it in the floor in there. 704 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,879 Speaker 20: At the time when he said that he had got 705 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 20: something out of there, I had noticed that the wheelbarrow 706 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 20: had been moved, because I had a the lawn and 707 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 20: lee recently, I knew where I put the wheelbarrow, and 708 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 20: the wheelbarrow had been moved. I had then sort of 709 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 20: taken note of this little fire pit that was in 710 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 20: the middle of this sort of garage or carport type 711 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 20: of thing, and I did ask about it. Then she said, yes, 712 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 20: he used to burn stuff there, but I thought was 713 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 20: a bit odd. But then I'd come to realization he 714 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 20: was none person, so I thought. 715 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:28,839 Speaker 2: Okay, as you've just heard. Rochelle's inquest was explosive. Her 716 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 2: body exhumed, nine persons of interest scrutinized. So many questions 717 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 2: needed to be answered. Who started the rumor about bikes 718 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 2: cutting Rochelle's fingers off, Was there ever a walk in shore? 719 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,800 Speaker 2: What happened to her in those missing nine hours after 720 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 2: she left work. The inquest ran for two years but 721 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 2: concluded with an open finding. As Peter Singleton said in 722 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:01,240 Speaker 2: his opening address, what began as a blue had become 723 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:02,360 Speaker 2: much clearer. 724 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: Mister Carrell, what happened to Rochelle Child's that brought about 725 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: the end of her life? On the advice of mister Johnston. 726 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 1: I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 727 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: it may incriminate me. You killed Rochelle Childs, didn't you? 728 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: On the advice of mister Johnston, on the advice of 729 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,799 Speaker 1: mister Johnston. On the advice of mister Johnston. On the 730 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: advice of mister Johnston. I refuse to answer that question. 731 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 1: Refuse to answer that question. I refuse to answer that question. 732 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 1: I refuse to answer that question on the ground that. 733 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 2: On the next episode of Dear Rochelle, what was it 734 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 2: like being married to Kevin? 735 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 10: Carrell just like to. 736 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,560 Speaker 14: Talk about There was many sides to Kevin. You know, 737 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 14: I spent thirteen years with him. He threatened to if 738 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 14: I ever left him, he. 739 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 6: Would help me down and find me. 740 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 14: He would cut me up in little pieces. 741 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 10: What makes him so dangerous? The fact that he can 742 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 10: just snap is not to be trusted. 743 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 7: You do want to do this, I do. 744 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,840 Speaker 14: It's just really hard that it happened to someone I loved, 745 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,960 Speaker 14: I would want someone like me to come forward, keep 746 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 14: a stake. 747 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,239 Speaker 2: Let's have a break yet, just I'll just move that 748 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:37,480 Speaker 2: microphone away. 749 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:39,279 Speaker 13: I feel. 750 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 14: I feel sometimes like it's my fault. 751 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 10: Dear Rochelle is a multi media production from True Crime Australia. 752 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 2: If you want to be one of the first to 753 00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:01,399 Speaker 2: find out what happens next, go Dear Roshelle dot com 754 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 2: dot a you. That's where eligible Digital News Corp Austrelia 755 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 2: subscribers get early access to podcast episodes and breaking news 756 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 2: in our live investigation and you will also find exclusive videos, 757 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,439 Speaker 2: interactive evidence, feature articles and more. That's De Rochelle dot 758 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,799 Speaker 2: com dot au. If you have any tips or confidential 759 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,560 Speaker 2: information to share with me, Ashley Hanson, please send an 760 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,719 Speaker 2: email to de Roshelle at News dot com dot a you. 761 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:34,040 Speaker 2: Our supervising producer and audio editor is Rehys Gunter Rachel Fountain, 762 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,279 Speaker 2: his executive producer and audio director. Our executive editor is 763 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 2: Sarah Blake. Our senior journ list is Patrick Carline. Video 764 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 2: editors are Jillian McNally, Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture 765 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 2: editors are Jeff dr Mannin and Christy Miller. 766 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 1: Sydney. 767 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 2: Camera operators are Daniel Andrews and Oscar Viera. We sound 768 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,840 Speaker 2: designed by Martin Perolta. Thanks also to Greg Thompson and 769 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 2: Lenny Panerz. Show Bareo fageld Sa Grabe, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice, 770 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 2: Charlotte carp, Tina Coggins and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to 771 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,799 Speaker 2: the Daily Telegraph editor Ben English and dear Rochelle would 772 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 2: not be possible without the help and I'm wavering support 773 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,640 Speaker 2: of Christy and Anne Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damien Loon. 774 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 10: And Rochelle's friends. 775 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 2: This podcast series is hosted and investigated by me Ashley 776 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 2: Hanson