1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: Gooday, thanks for listening to the show. It's Friday, the 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: twenty third of August. I've got Josh Steps calling in 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: in just a sec to chat about his upcoming shows 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: with Coleman Hughes. I should say though, today it's Wolfkang's birthday. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: Five years ago. Five years ago I watched my wife 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: Audrey bring this human being into the world. She was 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: the most extraordinary, unbelievable force of literally force of nature 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: creating life. And now he's five and we have his 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: birthday party this weekend. He's our tree science party. And look, 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: when your parents work in a gig, you call people 11 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: and a dear maid of mine. 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: Is a So I've just been on the podcast before. Actually, 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 2: Ruben Mehermon. 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: I called him up and said, hey, man, I know 15 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: you go to schools and you do science shows and stuff. 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: Would you be interested in doing a birth to bag. 17 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: Is yeah, man, five year olds, they love it. 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: And there's an extra super special present that I managed 19 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: to get from him today, from someone I could not 20 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: believe I ran into. 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: But that comes up at the end. 22 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: Of my conversation with Josh, which we'll get twitter moment, 23 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: because I do have to play some mats back in 24 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:13,199 Speaker 1: then a day. Okay, this is better than yesterday, making 25 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: a better every episode since twenty thirteen. Thanks for being here. 26 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: My name is Joshia Ginsburg. I'm a podcaster. I'm an author. 27 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: I'm a documentary maker. I'm a hotel citterina, which I 28 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: am right now looking at an empty minibar because when 29 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: I check in our hotels, I asked him to take 30 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: the minibar out and they did, but they left the 31 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: snacks legends. I'm someone who goes to hotel gyms that 32 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: are a ten minutes walk away, because that's one doesn't 33 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: have a gym. 34 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: But it was okay. 35 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: But I managed to sneak a workout in today, which 36 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: is good because I've got a gig tonight in camera. 37 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: And I'm someone who is a big fan of Josh Zepps. 38 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: He makes a podcast called Uncomfortable Conversation. So he's been 39 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: on this show a number of times, and Josh has 40 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: started to branch out into live shows, which are. 41 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: Pretty pretty pretty good. 42 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: He's doing an upcoming tour with the extraordinary academic and author, 43 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: the Coleman Hughes. I'll let Josh explain who he is 44 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: and what it is, but there's a gig in Sydney 45 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: at the Festival Dangerous Ideas, and there's also one on 46 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: this Wednesday, which I thoroughly recommend getting along too, because, 47 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: as you hear me say towards the end of our conversation, 48 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: getting challenged and ideas doesn't make your ideas less valid, 49 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: but it does make you stronger if you change your 50 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: mind or not. But Coleman has an interesting way of 51 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: engaging with the topics he chooses to cover, and Josh 52 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: has a fantastic. 53 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: Way of bringing it out of him. 54 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: So I would thoroughly recommend you get along. But Josh 55 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: pulled over on the side of the roads and I 56 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: wanted to talk to him about it and kind of 57 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: get the word out because it'd definitely be worth your 58 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: while to go check it out. And so Josh sounds 59 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: like he's on a phone attached to a dashboard of a. 60 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 2: Car, because he is. 61 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 1: This is me trying to do a Google meet with 62 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: Josh steps. 63 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 3: I was just abused by a taxi driversha, what what? 64 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 3: I was verbally altered by a cabby Dear now hang 65 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 3: on a seat and this was unprovoked. Did you have that? 66 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: Did you have it coming? Yeah? I was going to say, 67 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: did you have it coming? 68 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: I absolutely did not have it coming. Now, I am 69 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 3: the first to admit that there would be occasions in 70 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 3: my life. For example, at the airport yesterday, I did 71 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 3: not shuffle all the way down to the end of 72 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 3: the X ray conveyor belt before collecting my things, and 73 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 3: therefore someone was standing next to me. Now, to be 74 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 3: fair to me, he did have space to collect his things, 75 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 3: but on principle he asked me, he bossed me. He 76 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 3: said move down at the end, mate, even though there 77 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 3: was no actual need to. So I sarcastically said, oh, 78 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 3: is that how it works? You walked down at the 79 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 3: and to do it, and scoffed at him and grabbed 80 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 3: my stuff and walked away, moving my tray all the 81 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 3: way to the end. 82 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: Did Yeah. 83 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: I was going to say, did you do a quick 84 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: assessment like I could probably take him because you're told 85 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: on me you look after yourself. 86 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: No, No, I didn't. I was just out there. I 87 00:03:58,120 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 3: was over it. I was a bit over it. You know, 88 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 3: when you at the airport, it's been a long day, 89 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 3: You've got to got something to do that night. Just 90 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 3: let me get to the land. 91 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: What I know, what's going to top this day off 92 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: visits of the Watchhouse. Yeah, that's going to make it great. 93 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: Oh you know what, those federal police are just sitting 94 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: the secret pass make a cigarettes. 95 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 3: So I wasn't wrong. I wasn't in the wrong sling 96 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 3: at me. I was in the moral like I was 97 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 3: in the closic moral wrong but he was. Yeah, but 98 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 3: if he hit me, he'd be in the wrong. You 99 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 3: can't go punching Josh after the airport just because Josh 100 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:28,679 Speaker 3: has been a dick at the air tray machine. 101 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: Not yeah, but then get who's getting a dental implant 102 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: not him? 103 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 3: That's true, that's true. You know I have a dental 104 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 3: I have a dental implant monthly anyway, just to keep 105 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 3: my beautiful teeth so white. So it's no skin off 106 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 3: my teeth, well part of me. 107 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 2: It's kind of it's kind of good to hear that. 108 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: Like sometimes in public you can there's Dickishess that arises 109 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: because I do. 110 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: I love your podcast. 111 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: Un Comfortable Conversations, So I was just listening to it 112 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: at the gym just now. 113 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: And your ability to articulate and deal with people who are. 114 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: Being having uncomfortable moments in a podcast sense, possibly differs 115 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: to uncomfortable conversations at the airport X ray thing at 116 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: the end of a long. 117 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm you know, I don't want to say that 118 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 3: I'm like a priest who secretly rapes children in this 119 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 3: spare time. But let more time. 120 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: You won't make the cart, It won't make the cut. 121 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 2: Do you another one? 122 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 3: Well for not? 123 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 2: Okay, leave it in a cut, leave it in. 124 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 3: But I'd have to say that my professional persona may 125 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 3: differ from my personal hobbies on the show shore as 126 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 3: you know, as a loyal fan of uncomfortable conversations, I 127 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: try to model how to have conversations about topics that 128 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 3: would make people uncomfortable if someone started ranting about them 129 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 3: at a party or a barbecue or a you know, 130 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 3: at a work event or at the pub. And I 131 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 3: try to show how you're going to have those conversations. 132 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: In civil there's a degree of familiarity that you work 133 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: on for the first like five or ten minutes. 134 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: You have a degree of familiarity with your. 135 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 3: Guest now if I need it. 136 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, before you start getting into the nudgy, spiky parts 137 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: which you did not get yesterday at the X ray, 138 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: you're going to be You're going to be flying a bit, 139 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: I would urge you to just step downstream, Just step downstream, right, 140 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: move all away. Yeah. 141 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: I never got a wallet. I just had a wallet 142 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 3: on the phone. That was it. I didn't have anything. 143 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 3: I wasn't like scrounger. I didn't have a book, I 144 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 3: didn't have Bluetoo. 145 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: Never get behind me, mate, I've got like five six 146 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: hundred milligrams of German titanium in my actually Michigan titanium 147 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: in my body. 148 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 2: So I never get behind at the airport. 149 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: No, certainly not next week when you are traveling to 150 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: Melbourne to do a gig with Coleman Hughes, who. 151 00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 3: That beautiful segue. I love it. 152 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: I as you are all one would think you're a 153 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: professional broadcaster. 154 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: Now I've got you on because I think it's important 155 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: that people know that this person's coming to town, and 156 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: I think the kind of things this person has to 157 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: talk about extraordinary and in the framing of which the 158 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: conversations will take place with definitely well worth hearing. You're 159 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: doing a gig at the Festival of Dangerous Ideas. 160 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: Can people still get tickets to that? Or is that? 161 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, people can still get tickets to a Festival of 162 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 3: Dangerous Ideas, which is this Sunday at quarter to five 163 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: Carriage Works in Sydney and then the following Wednesday in Melbourne, 164 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 3: Coleman and I are doing our own show tickets sideshow. 165 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, breaking off for the big day out to 166 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: do the side show exactly. 167 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 3: But I mean anyone in Melbourne needs to come and 168 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 3: see Coleman, because Coleman gets a little bit of like 169 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 3: we're getting the Some of the festival tickets are just 170 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 3: being sold by interested festival goers, but Melbourne is entirely 171 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 3: a referendum on where the Melbournians are up for having 172 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 3: an honest and frank conversation about where we are with 173 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:09,559 Speaker 3: race politics. Because if you don't know Coleman, he's terrifyingly young. 174 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 3: Like when I saw his passport, it's like he's born 175 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 3: in like nineteen ninety six or something. Frightening. He is 176 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 3: an academic, an activist and a writer who has like 177 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 3: exploded onto the scene in the States because he's basically 178 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 3: making an argument that would have been quite uncontroversial ten 179 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 3: years ago and certainly very uncontroversial forty years ago, which 180 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 3: is that we should treat each other based on our 181 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 3: characteristics and the content of our character rather than on 182 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 3: the color of our skin. But this at the moment 183 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 3: on the progressive left, the social justice left, you know 184 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 3: what right wing rap bags might call the woke kind 185 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 3: of cancel culturey left is quite a taboo. So he's 186 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 3: not a right winger, he's not a conservative like he's 187 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 3: a traditional left wing, progressive color blind guy. And he's 188 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 3: written book about this, basically the case for a colorblind 189 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 3: society and the end of race politics and of using 190 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 3: racial division as a way of allocating benefits. And I 191 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 3: thought that was particularly interesting this year after the referendum usher, 192 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 3: which just seems to have completely leached out of the 193 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 3: national conversation, Like nobody's talking about where do we go 194 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 3: from now? Like what do we do now? We just 195 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 3: had this big, audacious thing and that failed, So what's 196 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 3: the next step? So Coleman's going to wrestle with it. 197 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 3: He was not a fan of the referendum in the 198 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 3: first place, But I'll tap dance around that with him 199 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 3: on stage and try to push back a bit about 200 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 3: that and talk about his experiences of where race politics 201 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 3: is in America right now and whether or not Martin 202 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 3: Luther King and like even Barack Obama's vision of color 203 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 3: blindness now something of the past, and we will have 204 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 3: to just not along a degree that we live in 205 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 3: irredeemably racist, white supremacist societies and it will always be us. 206 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: I can't not a long and agree. 207 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but the COVID does bring something up that 208 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: is quite interesting about where racism comes from and the 209 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: research around. 210 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 2: I guess what a person feels. 211 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: Is these are my people and over there are not 212 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: my people, and that as kids, we don't really come 213 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: out that way at all. 214 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 3: Do we, right? I mean, you have to sort of 215 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 3: learn division, right, and you have to learn what tribe 216 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 3: you're part of. And it's not obvious when you're a 217 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 3: kid that someone's the color of someone's skin makes them 218 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 3: different from you. I mean it sort of depends. Like 219 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 3: sometimes I think we can be a bit Pollyanna about 220 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 3: children and think that they're more tolerant than they are 221 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 3: when I watch my kids, they're also little assholes, like 222 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 3: in any number of ways. Oh, I can imagine the. 223 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: Kids can be hard. 224 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: I was just thinking last night when I was meditating, 225 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: just something shut up about about when I was about fourteen, 226 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: But some fucking horrible shit. 227 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 2: I was a part of, you know, in a school yard. 228 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: I'm like, what, who does that? 229 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: I can't try to figure out how the world works 230 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: that who that's who? 231 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, saw that. 232 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: It personally felt horrible inside, so much so that thirty 233 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: years later I was sitting there having to meditate at midnight, going, oh, 234 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: I'm horrible. 235 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 3: That's going to be me in thirty years thinking back 236 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 3: to my experience at the airport where I wronged a 237 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 3: man for not moving down. 238 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: The expert along mate. 239 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 3: But I mean, what I think you're pointing to is 240 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 3: the fact that you know, Coleman grew up. We haven't 241 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 3: mentioned that he's black, but he is black in Greater 242 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 3: New York City in New Jersey and had a very 243 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 3: mixed race childhood as I did growing up in the 244 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 3: inner West of Sydney, where we were all very diverse, 245 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 3: And when he got to Columbia University it was the 246 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 3: first time that he experienced essentially a kind of racial segregation. 247 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 3: And it was not a racial segregation imposed like the 248 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 3: racial segregation of the past by racist white It was 249 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 3: a racial segregation imposed by well meaning, university educated, middle 250 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 3: class elite, some of whom were people of color, many 251 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 3: of whom were white, but white progressives who felt that 252 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 3: it would be lovely if students of color were able 253 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 3: to gather together and share their own experiences in a 254 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 3: safe space, free from the subtle racism and microaggressions of 255 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 3: white students. Therefore, there were special mixes and classes and 256 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 3: tutorials for students of color, and Coleman suddenly found himself 257 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 3: plunged into this classification where he was grouped together with 258 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 3: a bunch of people who he didn't necessarily have anything 259 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 3: in common with apart from the color of their skin. 260 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 3: And that is a thing that has become increasingly normalized, 261 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 3: especially in the US and UK. I mean, I don't 262 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 3: know if you saw the story recently about you know, 263 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 3: there's this big play on the West End which is 264 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 3: called Slave Play, which is the kind of I mean, 265 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 3: many of the reviews of it on Broadway said that 266 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 3: it's the kind of show that people of color make 267 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 3: for wealthy white people to make me feel good about themselves, right, 268 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 3: you know, a self consciously sort of anti white, you know, 269 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: celebration of the triumph or adversity of people of color. 270 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 3: And what they've done on the West End now is 271 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 3: they've allocated a certain number of evenings to just people 272 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 3: of color in the audience. They call it blackout nights, 273 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 3: where it's blacks only in the audience, and selling this 274 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: is a really inclusive way of encouraging people of color 275 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 3: to come out to the theater. You know, if you 276 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 3: told our grandparents that we'd live in a world where 277 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 3: there was segregated university classes and segregated theater plays, if 278 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 3: you'd even told Martin Luther King, if you told Gandhi, 279 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 3: You're told Notton Mandela, would they regard that is progress 280 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 3: versus keeping as the aspirational light on the hill at 281 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 3: least a desire to achieve the as yet unrealized promise 282 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 3: of treating each other equally and regarding our skin color 283 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 3: or our ethnicity as about as relevant as our eye 284 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 3: color or hair color or sexuality. 285 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: Is. That's a big question what I'm sure you're going 286 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: to get to when you sit down with Goldman. Look, 287 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: we do need to take a bit of a break, 288 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: and we yet to get to the really amazing, super 289 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: excellent birthday present that I managed to find for Wolf today. 290 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: But I do need to take a quick break right 291 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: now that can say, wish yourselves and I've been very 292 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: interested in this kind of thing a lot in the 293 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: last ten years or so. About twenty fourteen is where 294 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: it starts to really kick off. Yeah, I'm just trying 295 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: to imagine who's going to want to go, because I 296 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: most definitely have been sucked into the vortex of wanting 297 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: to do the right thing and not wanting to be 298 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: on the receiving end of some kind of cancelation or 299 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: whatever that might look like, or some kind of labeling. 300 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: And so I have in the past talked about microaggressions 301 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: and talked about this kind of stuff I have that 302 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: has happened, and only in the recent like last three 303 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: five years or so have I gone maybe maybe I 304 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: don't actually feel that way. I was just trying to 305 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: be doing the right thing that the louds voices were 306 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: telling me is what I should be doing. 307 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: I'm wondering how much of when it comes to the left, 308 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: how much of it is people who just want to 309 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 2: do the right thing and kind of feel a lot 310 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 2: similar to Coleman perhaps yet are amplifying quite more radical 311 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 2: voices about safe spaces and separate this and advantage. 312 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 3: I mean, I think a lot of us, a lot 313 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 3: of us don't think about it particularly closely because we're 314 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: hand at a set of ideas about what is good 315 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 3: and what is bad and how you can be on 316 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 3: the right side of history by the dominant culture around us. 317 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 3: We read it in columns in the Guardian, we see 318 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 3: it in panels on the ABC, We hear about it 319 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 3: at university, we consume it through television and movies. Like 320 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 3: there's just a kind of ever advancing vanguard that we 321 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 3: assume always points towards progress, but sometimes it doesn't point 322 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 3: towards progress, Like sometimes it goes off, it branches off 323 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 3: into dead ends, and column says that we're currently in 324 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 3: a dead end of what he calls neo racism, where 325 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: we were going along quite well trying to turn the 326 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 3: volume down on race and like we needed to keep 327 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 3: doubling down on essentially what we were doing in like 328 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 3: the nineties and two thousands, and then during the twenty 329 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 3: tens we sort of got hijacked by like a kind 330 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 3: of race studies, gender studies, social justice movement that came 331 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: out of academia and really wanted to turn the volume 332 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 3: up on our identity differences. We saw the world in 333 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 3: a kind of almost neo Marxist way, where it's a 334 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 3: zero sum battle between identity groups fighting for power, and 335 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 3: at the top you've got straight, white, cisgender males, and 336 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 3: at the bottom, you know, you've got non able body 337 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 3: to transgender women of color, and everyone else is kind 338 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 3: of in this oppression Olympics somewhere in between, and the 339 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 3: way to run society is to try to artificially elevate 340 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 3: people who belong to historically disadvantaged groups, regardless of whether 341 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 3: or not that individual happens to be disadvantaged. So like 342 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 3: many of us have just kind of ingested this, I think, 343 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 3: and not maliciously. There's nothing wrong with following along with it, 344 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 3: but it deserves interrogation because we may be driving off 345 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: the road into a ditch somewhat, and we may be 346 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 3: causing more problems for ourselves than we need to be. 347 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 3: And look, I've found in terms of who comes to 348 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 3: shows like this, the success of my podcast is evidence 349 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,719 Speaker 3: of the fact that there is a hunger in Asia 350 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 3: and in the world more broadly for people to have 351 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 3: kind of brave and bullshit free conversations and some of 352 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 3: the things you're not really supposed to talk about, especially 353 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 3: if you're a white male. 354 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: Well, look, I hope that you and Coleman get to 355 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: the bottom of it, because we're going to need someone 356 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: to blame for the ills of our society. If it 357 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: can't be people who aren't white, then I hope you 358 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: guys figure it out. 359 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,719 Speaker 3: I think the Jews are a good one to blame generally. 360 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: Oh that's okay, that's probably it. And look, you know, 361 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: if you guys reach near pass, if you actually get 362 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: too uncomfortable in front of a crowd and people start 363 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: to going, like at a dinner party, LIKETU we go, 364 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, are they going to get divorced in 365 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: front of us? 366 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 3: I don't know. 367 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 2: But the doors over there, and like you can always 368 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 2: just talk about trans kids, you know. 369 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 3: And absolutely really bring the. 370 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 2: Evening to a clothes. 371 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 3: Oh that's hilarious. I mean, look, the point is not 372 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 3: to have a conversation that is itself uncomfortable, you know. 373 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 3: I try to reiterate to people that listening to uncomfortable 374 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 3: conversations is not going to make you uncomfortable, because I'm 375 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 3: trying to ferment uncomfortable scenarios with people. The point is 376 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 3: to have a conversation about subjects that when they rise 377 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 3: at a pub or at a dinner party, everyone's anuses 378 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 3: just pucker up a little bit and they realize they're 379 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 3: going to have to touch treading on eggshells and worrying 380 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 3: about triggering any tripwise and did someone going to get 381 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 3: into an argument about this. We're just very getting very good, 382 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 3: thanks largely to social media at caricaturing the other side 383 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 3: and feeling quite smart about our own beliefs, regardless of 384 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: what side you're on. I mean, I was amazed when 385 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 3: the opposition and Peter Dutton. You know, I've never voted 386 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 3: liberal in my life. I don't have a lot of 387 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 3: time for Peter Dutton, but to come to his defense 388 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 3: just on the basis of reason. He earlier this year 389 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 3: said that we should decrease the immigration rate, that five 390 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 3: hundred and whatever thousand people arriving a year was putting 391 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 3: pressure on house prices. One of Australia's most senior journalists 392 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 3: gave a speech that then got her in a little 393 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 3: bit of hot water, where she said that he's racist, 394 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 3: that Australia is a racist country, and that that's a 395 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 3: racist idea. Now is it racist to point out that 396 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 3: importing half a million people every year of any color 397 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 3: puts pressure on house prices, or is it offensive to 398 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 3: say that anyone who says that is racist? Like, I 399 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 3: think people are just getting a bit sick of the 400 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 3: name calling. I think people are getting sick of not 401 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 3: being able to rationally assess things without hysterics on both 402 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 3: sides and censorious finger wagging, like journalists and columnists telling 403 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 3: us what we have to believe. That's why Colmer is 404 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 3: such a breath of fresh air. He's just like you know, 405 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 3: I saw him on the View that American show, and 406 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 3: on Real Time with Bill Maher and on Joe Rogan's show, 407 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 3: and when you see someone getting stuck into him, especially 408 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 3: a person of color who feels like he is betraying 409 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 3: the team, and he's ancle Tom. Basically, he's like a 410 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 3: puppet who is being manipulated by white conservatives and the 411 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 3: white supremacist establishment. 412 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: To spout the Jews, don't forget because he's talking about 413 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: the Jews and. 414 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 3: The Jews, which is such a crazy characterization of him, 415 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 3: because when you actually hear him speak in the flesh, 416 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 3: the guy has like an IQ of seven hundred and 417 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 3: forty and like the most articulate person you could. 418 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: Ever down smart Man. 419 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, so smart. I just can't wait. I'm so stoked 420 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 3: that he's coming out here, and I'm so stoked that 421 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 3: I've been able to make it happen, and I'm so 422 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 3: stoked that we're going to get to come along. And 423 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 3: also there's a meet and greet thing just to be 424 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 3: a real. 425 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 2: Oh hang on a sec. You can't you know. 426 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 3: You can come and meet me. You can come and 427 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 3: meet Coleman. You can get cold, you can get a photo, 428 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 3: you can have a. 429 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: Dance with it's the backstage, it's the elite level, and 430 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: you get a special boat pad and a clicking pen 431 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: of mate, it's only eight hundred extra bucks. 432 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 2: I can't believe what value. No, it's not that much. 433 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 2: You are too good. Thank you so much for taking 434 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 2: the time to speak to me, because I. 435 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: Just wanted to be because in the same way that 436 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: I like to lift heavy things and challenge my body 437 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: by doing that and therefore growing, I like to be 438 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: challenged by ideas that I might. 439 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 2: Be a bit about. 440 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: If they put out a way, then I get to 441 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: think a little bit better about the world, and I feel, 442 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,959 Speaker 1: you know what, It makes me feel a bit safer. 443 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 2: It makes me feel stronger, Like the same with the weights. 444 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 2: It makes me feel stronger. 445 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 1: I'm if my ideas that I think are challenged, I'm 446 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: okay with that. 447 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 2: And it's. 448 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 3: Because, yeah, when you lift weights, you're actually breaking apart 449 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 3: the muscle fiber, aren't you, and it constitch yourself back together. 450 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,959 Speaker 3: You're challenging at in other words, in order for it 451 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 3: to really grow more strongly. 452 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 2: I'm around. If you ever need any metaphors, I'm here. 453 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 3: He's got the segways, he's got the metaphors. He isn't 454 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 3: crazy about the priest rape jokes. But we're getting there. 455 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 3: Oh Sha, We're getting there. One of the things I 456 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 3: love about you is your curiosity and your interest in 457 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 3: challenging eighty is no I'm serious, and so I always appreciate. 458 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 2: Having a chat with you. 459 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: On the way out, I'm going to say to you 460 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: that I met this morning on my plane and I 461 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: spotted him. I just wanted to tell you that I 462 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: don't know how exciting this is for you, but I 463 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: clocked him at the airport and I saw him get 464 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: on the plane and I saw the patch on his jacket. 465 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, holy fucking shit, it is him. And after 466 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: I got off the plane. I waited, and sure enough, 467 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: Paul Scully Power Australia's first astronaut. He flew the Space 468 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: Shuttle Challenger in nineteen eighty four. First ever astronaut with 469 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: a beard, was on my plane. He was wearing a 470 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: flight jacket and he had the patch and I was saying, mate, 471 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: I just wanted to shake your head and say hello, 472 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to meet you. My son's really into space, 473 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: you know, La La lah Is. His birthday party is 474 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,479 Speaker 1: having a science party. It's actually his birthday today. And 475 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: he said, like, he's eighty years old. Man, Wait a second. 476 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: He put his bag down and he had a little 477 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: folio with him and he pulls out a four by 478 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: five color print and he had about six of them. 479 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: Oh had I handed it with a sharpie I was sketching. 480 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 2: With and he wrote what's his name? 481 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: And he wrote Wolfgang and he wrote he wrote a 482 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: little note and I was just. 483 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 3: Australia. Look. I love so many things about that story. One. 484 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 3: I love that he comes prepared with his own headshots. Two. 485 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 3: I love that you knew what he looked like rather 486 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 3: than just him by name, but you knew what his 487 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 3: face looked like. 488 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 2: Which is to be fair, he was wearing his flight 489 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 2: jacket with his name on it. 490 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: Okay, but I saw that, I saw that he's eighty. 491 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: He doesn't quite look like he did when he flew, which. 492 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 3: Was what I was. I was thrown. So the other 493 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 3: thing that I was that I'm so impressed by is 494 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 3: like that he was very swift about getting through the 495 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 3: and you did not even at the age of eighty. 496 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: He was no Joshepps holding up no, because he has 497 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: orbited so fast. He's seen sixteen sunrises of sun sets 498 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: in one day. 499 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 3: He knows. 500 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 2: You just got to keep moving. Man, No time, no time. 501 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 2: Love you may chatting, thank you. 502 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 3: If you want to get tickets Melbourne, you go to 503 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 3: the Josh dot Show, the Josh Doles Action. 504 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 2: That was the one woman missed the call to me. 505 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 3: Just google festival dangerous Ideas or festival dangerous Coleman, Josh 506 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 3: that I'll get you there. 507 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 2: I might even put a link in the show notes. 508 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 3: What about You could do that too. It's probably more 509 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 3: interesting than listening to me say this goodbye everybody. 510 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: I love you, I love you too, I love you 511 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: and your car full of baby seats? 512 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 2: All right? Man's that was Josh Epps. 513 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: I did the thing at the end of a Zoom 514 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: call or a Google call whatever, where he was trying 515 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: to say. 516 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 2: Goodbye, and I hung up on him, and then like, 517 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 2: what are you gonna do? Call back. It's like we've 518 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 2: already said goodbye. The browsers already shut what. I'm a text. 519 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 2: I'm sorry man, people always I think that's maybe why 520 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 2: people say goodbye bye bye. So yeah, by that weird. 521 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: Little code at the end of so if you hang 522 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: up in the middle, you kind of know. But I 523 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: have such a hard time at least with Google Meets. 524 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: It's just one button. It's not like I see everyone 525 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: and you click and it confirms and you have to 526 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: kind of look around for the thing. 527 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 2: To try and find. 528 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, all the links through the show notes. Go check 529 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: out the shows. It'll be great. I hope you're having 530 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: a great weekend. And yeah, astronauts, how cool, right, an 531 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: actual real life astronaut, Australia's first astronaut, Australia's first astronaut 532 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: with a beard, absolutely brilliant, Oh so cool. Have a 533 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: great weekend. Here are the AI credits for you to enjoy. 534 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 3: This episode was brought to you by Andy ma on 535 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 3: audio post production. 536 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: Beck said on video post production to Hyder on music, 537 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: Our producer. 538 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 3: Is Bree Steele, OSHA's executive function an assistant is Monica Chapman. 539 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: Sign up to the regular newsletter and get every episode 540 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: ever at oshiginsburg dot com