WEBVTT - Could the Andrew scandal bring down the King?

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<v Speaker 1>He's boorish, his pompous, he's arrogant, he's unself aware, he's

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<v Speaker 1>a bully, he's incredibly stupid. He has no sense of

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<v Speaker 1>idnity apart from his own status as a royal. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>even until literally last Thursday, he couldn't understand what the

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<v Speaker 1>foss was about. He had no sense of remorse. He's

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<v Speaker 1>a narcissist.

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<v Speaker 2>But by the time a wide eyed Andrew mount Batten

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<v Speaker 2>Windsor was slumped in the back of a range Rover,

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<v Speaker 2>the reality had hit home.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it did hit him finally on Thursday, just

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<v Speaker 1>the seriousness of the situation He's in. Breaking news on

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<v Speaker 1>the former Prince Andrew.

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<v Speaker 3>Thames Valley Police say that Andrew mount Batten Windsor has

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<v Speaker 3>been arrested.

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<v Speaker 4>The BBC understands that he has been arrested on suspicion

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<v Speaker 4>of misconduct in public office.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, as the world reels from Andrew's arrest and the

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<v Speaker 2>Royals scrambled to protect themselves from one of the biggest

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<v Speaker 2>crises the Palace has ever faced, a warning from a

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<v Speaker 2>Royal biographer Charles could go down to learn about Andrew

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<v Speaker 2>and that.

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<v Speaker 3>With this new headline email proves Charles was warned about

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<v Speaker 3>Andrew's secret deals. It's now not inconceivable that the king

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<v Speaker 3>may fall.

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<v Speaker 4>Your majesty, how are you feeling off your brother's arrest?

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<v Speaker 2>Have you spoken to your brother? Your majesty. I'm Nicole

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<v Speaker 2>Johnston and you're listening to seven AM today Royal historian

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew Lowney on what's next for the former prince and

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<v Speaker 2>could the king be forced to abdicate the throne. It's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 2>February twenty four, Andrew. It's a few days since the

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<v Speaker 2>UK and the world was rocked by the arrest of

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew Mountbatten Windsor has the shock worn off for you

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<v Speaker 2>and for the country? And how is the mood in

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<v Speaker 2>the UK now? Because I imagine that it's all anybody's

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<v Speaker 2>talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, No, I mean I think it's not shock. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean I think in some ways people wanted this to happen,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're relieved it's happened. Shows that there's not one

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<v Speaker 1>law for the royals and ones for others. There are

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<v Speaker 1>just absolutely transfixed by the new revelations. I mean today,

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<v Speaker 1>the revelations that the king was aware about the problems

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<v Speaker 1>with Andrew, going back to twenty nineteen and seems to

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<v Speaker 1>ignore them. So the wagons, though they've circled and try

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<v Speaker 1>and protect the King. He's now being drawn into the story.

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<v Speaker 4>Let me stay clearly, the King has said the law

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<v Speaker 4>must take its course as this process continues. It would

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<v Speaker 4>not be right for me to comment further on this matter.

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<v Speaker 4>An extraordinary statement from the king.

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<v Speaker 1>There's been a lot of stuff, for example, about how

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<v Speaker 1>his police protection officers were actually in effect working for Epstein.

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<v Speaker 1>There were bouncers on the door in Manhattan. So the

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<v Speaker 1>new disclosures almost every day, the raw family on the

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<v Speaker 1>back foot. They've lost control of narrative, and it's actually

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<v Speaker 1>really serious. I mean, we have a possibility that Charles

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<v Speaker 1>will have to abdicate, I think if he's found and

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<v Speaker 1>being complicit in protecting his brother. This is a story

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<v Speaker 1>about financial corruption at the heart of the royal family,

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<v Speaker 1>abetted by the Queen. I was vilified when I said

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<v Speaker 1>that the Queen was involved in protecting her son. Now

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<v Speaker 1>they're kind of throwing her to the walls. She's dead

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<v Speaker 1>and she's been blamed for not dealing with the problem

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<v Speaker 1>while she was alive. The cause for a parliamentary inquiry

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<v Speaker 1>an MP today has said that Andrew's committed treason, it's

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<v Speaker 1>really bad news.

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<v Speaker 2>I have to say, what makes you think though, that

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<v Speaker 2>it could actually lead to the abdication of King Charles,

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<v Speaker 2>because that seems as though it would put it on

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<v Speaker 2>an entirely new level.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, I mean, they're trying to protect Charles. They

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<v Speaker 1>trying to keep the damage a limitation just to Andrew.

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<v Speaker 1>But if the facts show that the Palace knew about this,

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<v Speaker 1>Charles knew about it and didn't had protected someone who

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<v Speaker 1>consorted with pedophiles, slept with underage girls, was taking bribes,

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<v Speaker 1>was giving away secret information, including not just commercially sensitive information,

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<v Speaker 1>but military and political secrets, and he was protected by

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<v Speaker 1>the king. People are not going to accept that. They're

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<v Speaker 1>going to say he goes as well. And we're getting

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<v Speaker 1>close to that stage. You know, people feel William as

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<v Speaker 1>hands seemed to be clean, and there's a sense that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the old God have let everyone down. The

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<v Speaker 1>monarchy only depends on trust, and that trust has gone.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of this, of course Andrew denies. But you

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<v Speaker 2>wrote about the relationship between Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein in

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<v Speaker 2>your book. Could you tell us what they both got

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<v Speaker 2>out of it? Who was more powerful? And what was

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew even thinking when he continued that friendship even after

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<v Speaker 2>Epstein had been convicted of sex trafficking.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it was just I described as between a rattlesnake

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<v Speaker 1>and a mouse. Epstein at Andrew live. Andrew gave Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>credibility QDOS, access to the royal family, a respectability. And

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<v Speaker 1>Andrew got from Epstein a ready supply of young girls,

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<v Speaker 1>someone to pay Fergie's bills, and again some useful contacts.

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<v Speaker 1>All those relationships are transactional. He was making sure that

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<v Speaker 1>Fergie's debts could be paid or restructured, and Epstein helped him.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm at your service, Just marry me. This is just

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<v Speaker 2>one of the ex changes that Sky News believes that

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<v Speaker 2>Sarah Fergson had with a disgraced pedophile, Jeffrey Epstein. And

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<v Speaker 2>just briefly, this doesn't reflect well on Fergie either, does it.

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<v Speaker 1>No? I mean she's abstually finished. I mean, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there she is supporting children's charities, sex trafficked woman, writing

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<v Speaker 1>children's books, and she's busy consulting with a pedophile, bringing

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<v Speaker 1>her kids to meet him, introducing her godchild twenties to Epstein,

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<v Speaker 1>saying that Epstein's like the brother she never had. She

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<v Speaker 1>wants to marry him, she wants to work for him,

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<v Speaker 1>pleading for money. Twenty thousand pounds here, one hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty thousand dollars there. She comes across as a complete grifter,

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<v Speaker 1>which is what I knew. But you know the reputation

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<v Speaker 1>she had, I think, particularly in Australia, she was this

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<v Speaker 1>ditchy sloane ranger, a bit foolish, but actually at heart

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<v Speaker 1>and pretty nice person. And actually she's now seen as

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<v Speaker 1>a very cynical hypocrite who manipulated the royal family, played

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<v Speaker 1>with her staff, has now abandoned the husband that she

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<v Speaker 1>claimed to stand by. Now he's no longer a prince,

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<v Speaker 1>and in Royal Lodge, you know, you suddenly realize this

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<v Speaker 1>is the world of Thackeray's Vanity Fair. It's understood that

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<v Speaker 1>the government will consider introducing legislation to remove Andrew Mountbatten

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<v Speaker 1>Winsor from the line of succession.

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<v Speaker 2>So for now, Andrew's still eight in line for the throne.

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<v Speaker 2>And as you told us, there are these reports that

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<v Speaker 2>the government is considering introducing legislation to remove him from

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<v Speaker 2>that royal line of succession. Do you think that is likely,

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<v Speaker 2>and is it also the right thing to do well.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean there's stories that there is an attempt to

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<v Speaker 1>introduce the legislation. I mean Edward the eighth was actually

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<v Speaker 1>able to abdicate an afternoon. That's because he agreed to go.

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<v Speaker 1>So if Andrew agreed to go, there would be no

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<v Speaker 1>need for parliamentary debate. He would that things could just

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<v Speaker 1>be sorted. What the royal family doesn't want is a

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<v Speaker 1>big debate about royal accountability and privilege. They want to

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<v Speaker 1>shut this story down. I personally think that getting rid

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<v Speaker 1>of him from the last session is a waste of

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<v Speaker 1>parliamentary time. It's an irrelevance. He's never going to take

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<v Speaker 1>the throne. He's never going to be a Councilor of state.

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<v Speaker 1>Keep focusing on two things, accountability of the royal family

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<v Speaker 1>and getting justice for the victims by holding Andrew to

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<v Speaker 1>account for what he's done.

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<v Speaker 2>Coming up, is this the monarchy's me too moment? Andrew,

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<v Speaker 2>the King and Prince William. They've been praised for how

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<v Speaker 2>they've handled it so far. They're continuing with their public duties,

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<v Speaker 2>though they have been getting some blowback from it. It

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<v Speaker 2>seems there is a real sense of keep calm and

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<v Speaker 2>carry on. But how much damage is this doing to

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<v Speaker 2>the royal family and its future even though they are

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<v Speaker 2>trying to somehow insulate themselves from it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, huge damage. I think there was a poll the

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<v Speaker 1>other day saying that seventy nine percent of people in

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<v Speaker 1>the twenties are basically think the monarchy should go.

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<v Speaker 2>The monarchy, Well, it's not having a very good time

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<v Speaker 2>at the moment, is it.

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<v Speaker 4>Young people are interested in the values of fairness and

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<v Speaker 4>in the values of representation. Whatever way you slice it.

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<v Speaker 4>The monarchy is neither a fair nor a representative institution.

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<v Speaker 1>Approval rates to the monarchy in general have fallen. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think that the feeling is that the king has

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<v Speaker 1>handled the well, he's lost to control of the narrative.

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<v Speaker 1>He's running to catch up. William is better. People feel

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<v Speaker 1>that he has wanted to deal with this but been

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<v Speaker 1>frustrated by his father's reluctance to really address the subject.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, it's pretty well known that Andrew was the late

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<v Speaker 2>Queen's favorite child, and she did a lot to protect him,

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<v Speaker 2>even paying a reported twelve million pounds settlement in the

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<v Speaker 2>civil case with Virginia Dufrey. Why did she have such

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<v Speaker 2>a soft spot for him, and did she do too

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<v Speaker 2>much in the end to the extent that it's obviously

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<v Speaker 2>ended up with the royal family now in total crisis.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well she passed this BOMD to Charles. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I think to a certain extent he has to take

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<v Speaker 1>responsibility too, because he was in effect reigning with her

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<v Speaker 1>for the last few years of her life. He's been

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<v Speaker 1>on the throne in the last four years. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>she was blind to his faults. She didn't want to know,

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<v Speaker 1>put a head in the sand. No one felt that

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<v Speaker 1>they could really address this problem, and so he's able

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<v Speaker 1>to get away with it. He would run to Mommy

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<v Speaker 1>complaining about people, and instead of her giving him a

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<v Speaker 1>hard time, she would give the person giving Andrew a

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<v Speaker 1>hard time a hard time. But the Royal family could

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<v Speaker 1>have dealt with this for years. I mean they've known

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<v Speaker 1>about his behavior. I had lunch yesterday with someone who

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<v Speaker 1>knew as a teenager and was telling me about exactly

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<v Speaker 1>this sort of behavior. And Charles or Edward's screaming at him,

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<v Speaker 1>know about, you know, behaving properly and not behaving in

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<v Speaker 1>the way he was. So this isn't going to be

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<v Speaker 1>new to them. But I think where they've been caught

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<v Speaker 1>out is they didn't expect this Epstein dump of material.

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<v Speaker 1>They thought they got away with it, and to a

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<v Speaker 1>logic scent they had. I mean, even my book coming

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<v Speaker 1>out in August didn't lead to calls for investigations or

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<v Speaker 1>any real criticism of the Royal family. It's only really

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<v Speaker 1>this last few weeks that it's become really untenable for

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<v Speaker 1>them not to do something. Same with the police, same

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<v Speaker 1>with the government. The government have tried to shut the

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<v Speaker 1>story down. Ambassadors were told not to speak to me.

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<v Speaker 1>The files are still closed till twenty sixty five. Everyone

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<v Speaker 1>has tried to suppress this story. I saw when I

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<v Speaker 1>did my book on it with the Eighth and his

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<v Speaker 1>associations with the Nazis. They destroyed files, they briefed against

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<v Speaker 1>the press.

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<v Speaker 2>Same thing in your book you quoted a Royal source

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<v Speaker 2>is saying that Charles thought Andrew's trade on void job

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<v Speaker 2>was always a disaster waiting to happen. Now he's been

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<v Speaker 2>arrested with allegedly sharing confidential commercial information with Epstein, and

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<v Speaker 2>as you were telling us, there are other investigations into

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<v Speaker 2>him underway. So could this just be the tip of

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<v Speaker 2>the iceberg.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, it is just the tip of the iceberg. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean we may well have the sex trafficking allegations lead

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<v Speaker 1>to charges. I mean they're there's a lot of material

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<v Speaker 1>in the Epstein revelations about that. I think they're just

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<v Speaker 1>trying to find the girls to interview them, see they

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<v Speaker 1>will give testimony. There is I mean, I think more

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<v Speaker 1>material on the misconduct and public office, but the sex

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<v Speaker 1>trafficking there. I think eleven police forces looking at various allegations.

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<v Speaker 1>So they have to make sure they get this right.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's a lot riding on it. I think people

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<v Speaker 1>feel that the roles have been protected and that justice

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<v Speaker 1>now needs to be seen to be done.

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew looking forward, despite this huge crisis that's underway at

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<v Speaker 2>the moment and the legitimacy of the monarchy being questioned,

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<v Speaker 2>do you think that the younger batch of royals, William

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<v Speaker 2>and Kate, that they can eventually right the ship again

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<v Speaker 2>or is it going to be pretty tough?

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<v Speaker 1>No? I hope they can. I mean I think they're

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<v Speaker 1>very popular. I mean, the rest of our family are

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<v Speaker 1>very popular. I mean, so it's just these two rogue roles,

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<v Speaker 1>and so they need to cauterize this get Sarah and folks,

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<v Speaker 1>and Andrew kind of distanced from the rolls. But I

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<v Speaker 1>think the one person who's vulnerable this is King Charles.

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<v Speaker 1>If Charles is implicated, then I think he will have

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<v Speaker 1>to be the sacrificial lamb, and there will be the

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<v Speaker 1>sense we clean up the stables, we move to a

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<v Speaker 1>completely new regime, we move to a more transparent monarchy,

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<v Speaker 1>more on the European model, and this is the sort

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<v Speaker 1>of me too moment for the monarchy for change. I

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<v Speaker 1>just don't think it's a tenable for them now to

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<v Speaker 1>operate in the way they used to. Never complain, never explain,

0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Hope the problem goes away. Work on some trusted correspondence

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<v Speaker 1>to leak stories. It's just not going to work in

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<v Speaker 1>a less deferential society and with social media pressures.

0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Andrew, it's been fascinating to talk to you. Thanks for

0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:32.400
<v Speaker 2>joining us.

0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 1>It's been a pleasure.

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<v Speaker 2>Also in the news this week, the Royal Commissioner looking

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<v Speaker 2>into anti Semitism and social cohesion in the wake of

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<v Speaker 2>the Bondi attack, will visit the scene of the massacre.

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.040
<v Speaker 2>Virginia bell is set to meet with survivors and relatives

0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.040
<v Speaker 2>of those who died. I called Judge will give an

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<v Speaker 2>opening statement today outlining how the inquiry will operate and

0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:10.520
<v Speaker 2>humanitarian organizations Save the Children says. The coalition's proposal to

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<v Speaker 2>make it illegal to help the so called ISIS brides

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:18.440
<v Speaker 2>and their kids returned to Australia is extraordinary. CEO Matt

0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Tinkler says no Australian child should be left stranded, calling

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<v Speaker 2>on politicians to dial down the rhetoric and show some

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<v Speaker 2>compassion for vulnerable children. I'm Nicole Johnston. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening.