1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: It's Friday, October thirty one, twenty twenty five. The Australian's 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: investigative podcast Shandy Story returns today with the first of 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: several bombshell new episodes, revealing that even after a Commission 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: of Inquiry into Australia's worst forensics disaster, the Queensland government 6 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: was warned its troubled DNA lab was even worse than anyone. 7 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: New subscribers to The Australian here episodes first at Shandy 8 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: dot com dot Au and The Australian's app. Donald Trump 9 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: has hailed an amazing meeting with Hijinping, saying he'll cut 10 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: his tariff on China by ten percent. In return, says Trump, 11 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: Beijing will ease its controls on rare earth by a 12 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of American soybeans and work very hard to 13 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: crack down on fentanyl ingredients. Trump says she is a 14 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: great leader from a great country. How on Earth was 15 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: an adventurous eighty year old lady left behind by her 16 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: luxury cruise ship three decades after the horrific snorkeling deaths 17 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: of Tom and Eileen Lonegan. Tragedy strikes the Great Barrier 18 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: Reef again. That's today's story. Michael McKenna is the Australian's 19 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: Queensland editor and he's been covering a story along with 20 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: our colleague Sarah Elks that has really touched a whole 21 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: lot of people. Michael, this is about Suzanne Reese, who 22 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: was Suzanne Reese. 23 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: Suzanne was a mother from New South Wales. 24 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 3: She was an eighty year old woman who it seems 25 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 3: was on the trip of a lifetime aboard the Coral Adventure, 26 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 3: which usually had about one hundred and twenty passengers exclusive. 27 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 3: It cost about eighty thousand dollars and the voyage it 28 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 3: was a sixty day voyage around Australia and really went 29 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 3: to a lot of the remote parts of Australia. It 30 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 3: had experts on board, marine biologists, naturalists and the like 31 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 3: to really present the knowledge and the exploration of some 32 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 3: of the most remote parts of Australia. They left hands 33 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 3: and steamed northwards up the coast of Cape York and 34 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 3: dropped anchor off Lizard Island, which is about ninety kilometers 35 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 3: past Cooktown. It's some of the most beautiful coastline in 36 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: Australia and Lizard Island is a protected island. It's a 37 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 3: traditional Aboriginal country, but it's also got one of the 38 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 3: most exclusive resorts in Australia, which has been frequented by 39 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 3: movie stars from all over the world. So this was 40 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 3: the first stop of this sixty day cruise and that's 41 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 3: where it seems things went wrong. 42 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: We've published in The Australian the most beautiful picture of 43 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: Suzanne Rees. She was eighty years old, but she reminds 44 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: me a little bit of my late mum, Wiry rangy 45 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: kind of lady, very dapper and looks like great fun. 46 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: She was obviously pretty fit and adventurous to go on 47 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: a holiday like this by herself. 48 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 3: That's right, and I think that's what we've had a 49 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 3: statement from her daughter, Katherine Reevees through a spokesperson, who 50 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 3: described her as very healthy, active who enjoyed gardening and 51 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 3: she was a key member of a bushwalking group. What 52 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 3: we understand is that the ship anchored just off the 53 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 3: island and there was a group that were taken by 54 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: tender to the island. Some went to the beach, some 55 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 3: went snorkeling, and then others went for this climb up 56 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 3: the hill. 57 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: It's a pretty arduous climb, isn't it. They call it 58 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: Cook's Look because it's where then Lieutenant James Cook climbed 59 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: in seventeen seventy to get a layer of the reef, 60 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: really to work out how he was going to navigate 61 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: the endeavor through the Great Barrier reef. I had a 62 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: look on the Lizard Island website about this track and 63 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: it warns that it's arduous, it's a hard climb. It's 64 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: only for people who are fit. So at some point 65 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: on Saturday morning, a group of people from the ship 66 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: has gone on this walk, and Suzanne Reese has decided 67 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: to join. But you've reported Michael along with Sarah that 68 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: on that walk she realized that she couldn't make it 69 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: to the top. 70 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 2: That's right. 71 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 3: It's a four kilometer trail up to the point. And 72 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 3: in fact, some of our readers have made comments in 73 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 3: the stories describing how tough the walk is and some 74 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 3: parts quite narrow. Authorities, quite they're not saying a lot, 75 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 3: and the company isn't saying pretty much anything about what 76 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 3: happened on the island. 77 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 2: But what we have been told. 78 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 3: Is that Suzanne was as part of this group. We 79 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 3: don't know how many of the staff members were leading 80 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 3: this group, or in fact, if any, we can't get 81 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 3: an answer on that. 82 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 2: But they climbed up the hill. 83 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 3: It was about thirty degrees there wasn't much cloud in 84 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 3: the sky. She apparently said that she wasn't feeling very 85 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 3: well and then turned around. Now, her daughter in the statement, 86 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 3: said that she has learned through authorities that her mother 87 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 3: had been ill. She was asked to head down, and 88 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 3: she went down, underscorted that's when she disappeared. I've been 89 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 3: told that when she was eventually found, that her body 90 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 3: was found about fifty meters off the trail. So the 91 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 3: people that are telling me this aren't sure as to 92 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 3: whether she's fallen or what's happened. 93 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: So at about sunset on Saturday, the rest of the 94 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: hiking group returns to the Coral Adventurer, which pulls the 95 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,679 Speaker 1: anchor up and leaves Lizard Island. But at that point 96 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: they didn't know that Suzanne Reese was missing, did they. 97 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 3: No, that's right what we're being told, and it hasn't 98 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 3: been disputed by the company or the authorities. But what 99 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 3: we've been told and quite reliably is that the parties 100 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 3: from the beach, from the snorkling group and from the 101 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 3: hikers went back to the tender, then the boat went 102 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 3: back to the main ship. The boat then left around 103 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 3: sunset or just before sunset, and it was only at dinner, 104 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 3: which we believe was around six o'clock that they discovered 105 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 3: that she was missing. And we don't even think that 106 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 3: it was the company. It was one of the passengers 107 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 3: who has raised questions about where Suzanne was at that stage. 108 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 3: We're being told that the ship then followed protocol and 109 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 3: they did a number of sweeps of the entire ship 110 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 3: looking for her. They couldn't find her, and then it 111 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 3: was decided around ten pm to turn the ship around 112 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: and the alarm with authorities. 113 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 2: So what we believe is that there's at least. 114 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 3: Four to five hours between when she was on the 115 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: island and when it was discovered that she was missing. 116 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: Do you think, Michael, from what you've gleaned from your reporting, 117 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: that Susanne Reese might have died while the ship was 118 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: still at Lizard Island before they left without her, or 119 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: do we think that she lingered there for a long 120 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: time after the walk would have concluded well, I mean, this. 121 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 3: Is one of the terrible questions that needs to be answered, 122 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,239 Speaker 3: and just an awful thing to think about, that this mother, 123 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 3: this adventurer, in some way was on the island, off 124 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 3: the trail, either injured, we don't know. I've asked the question, 125 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 3: We've all asked Sarah and I have been asking questions 126 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 3: of authorities of the company, and there's been a silence 127 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 3: about it to what happened, whether she could have been saved, 128 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: whether she had been suffering from heat stroke, whether she 129 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 3: had fallen and seriously injured herself. We don't know, but 130 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 3: we do know, and it's what her daughter said, is 131 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 3: that her mother died alone. 132 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: It really reminds me of the really sad story of 133 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: the death back in twenty twenty four of doctor Michael Moseley, 134 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: the British science journalist who was on a Greek island, 135 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: a fit, active sixty seven year old who went for 136 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: a walk in the heat by himself and died. Was 137 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: later found very close to a village where he could 138 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: have reached help, but a coronial finding indicated there was 139 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: an undetermined cause of death, that he must have died 140 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: in some way of natural causes, but wasn't clear about 141 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: exactly how. It's just a reminder, isn't it, Michael, of 142 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: how vulnerable people are. Even though you might think as 143 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: an older person you're very fit and active. You know, 144 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: death can be lingering not far away. 145 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: That's right, and especially in this area. I was up 146 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 3: in Kpe, York in July. The Aboriginal people are called 147 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 3: the White Sands people. There's lots of big white dunes, 148 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 3: and the sun even in the winter was belting. It's 149 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 3: really hot, so if you can imagine, it was at 150 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 3: least thirty degrees. We're told that there was no cloud 151 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 3: in the sky and there was no wind, so it's 152 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: sort of an unrelenting heat that she would have been 153 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 3: walking down. She already feels ill. She's walking down the 154 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 3: trail by herself, which is this great question of why 155 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 3: she was allowed to walk down unescorted, without any help, 156 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 3: walking down this hill, what she's unfamiliar with, and then 157 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 3: either she's collapsed, tripped, or something's happened because the party, 158 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 3: my understanding, they follow the trail back the same way. 159 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 2: They didn't see her. 160 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 3: This is remote country and there are perils in many places. 161 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: Coming up after a horrifying tourist tragedy in nineteen ninety eight. 162 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: This was supposed to never happen again. So what's gone wrong? 163 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: Once upon a time, probably when you and I were kids, Michael, 164 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: people who were eighty didn't go on adventurous holidays. You know, 165 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: if they were still alive, they were sitting in an 166 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: armchair kind of doing their crochet. Nowadays, people are living 167 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: well into their ninth decade, very fit and healthy, very active. 168 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: They want to be out in the world doing things. 169 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: And it raises this really interesting question about duty of care, 170 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: doesn't it. You know, she has the right to go 171 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 1: and be an independent adventurer, but she's also in the 172 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: care of a company that should be looking after Yeah, well. 173 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 3: That's right, and they're paying a fair price. This is 174 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 3: an eighty thousand dollars a ticket circumnavigation of Australia for 175 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 3: sixty days, and so when you're going on this sort 176 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 3: of expedition, you would expect that the safety protocols are 177 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 3: well in place. 178 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 2: It sort of bewilders me that she was. 179 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 3: Allowed to turn around and walk back down this trail unescorted, 180 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 3: But also it raises the questions about the protocols that 181 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 3: should have been followed, and obviously something's gone wrong with 182 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 3: these protocols in regards of taking head counts for the 183 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 3: return to ship. So we do know this is that 184 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 3: there is much stricter protocols in regards to the people 185 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 3: that are snorkling, so they have to sign a form 186 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 3: before they go into the water and then they have 187 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 3: to sign the form when they come out of the 188 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 3: water they're on the tender and they're heading back to 189 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 3: the boat. We do know that there was a head 190 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 3: count that was taken all those on the land and 191 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 3: the beach and that should have followed, but quite obviously 192 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 3: that failed in some way. And again a lot of 193 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 3: our readers are raising questions in the comments because these 194 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: are season travelers. A lot of our readers I've discovered 195 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 3: who have taken a lot of these expeditions and they're 196 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 3: raising the same questions because in some instances overseas and 197 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 3: in other parts of Australia, people have got their own 198 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 3: ID cards and that it's just a matter of swiping 199 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: or showing the cars as they lead the ship. 200 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 2: They're really tight and they're really rigid. Protocols that have followed. 201 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 3: The rules and protocols were tightened for tourist boats across 202 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 3: the Great Bayer Reef and I think across Australia after 203 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 3: the tragedy of the Lonigans in nineteen ninety eight. They 204 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 3: were an American couple, Tom and Eileen Lonigan, and they 205 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 3: boarded a scuba dive boat that went off the reef 206 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: near Paut Douglas. The dive boat, the Outer Edge, took 207 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 3: twenty six people in a three day diet trip, but 208 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 3: the boat returned with only twenty four passengers. It took 209 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 3: another two days before the company called the police after 210 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 3: a botched head count. A coroner later ruled that the 211 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 3: Lonagans had drowned or had been eaten by sharks after 212 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 3: being left at sea. Their bodies were never found, and 213 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,119 Speaker 3: the boat's skipper was eventually found not guilty of manslaughter. 214 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: Now the case of Suzann Reese is with Queensland Police 215 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: and the coroner. 216 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 3: This is obviously a major file because his poor woman 217 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 3: has been left to well, has been left for four 218 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 3: to five hours on this island. 219 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 2: It's terrible. 220 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: Michael McKenna is The Australian's Queensland Editor. Come back to 221 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot u for all our updates 222 00:13:48,400 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: on this story. Do you remember the Pisce Christ art controversy? 223 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: What about Bill Henson's nude pictures of young people? Australians 224 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: have a habit of getting very steamed up about contemporary art, 225 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: and in Saturday's episode of The Front, our chief culture 226 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: correspondent Tim Douglas joins me to work out exactly what's 227 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: our problem with provocation And of course you can check 228 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: out all the best entertainment and arts journalism right now 229 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: at the Australian dot com dot au