WEBVTT - Addiction, drugs and Olympic glory: Matthew Mitcham Pt.1 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:04.960 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:07.880 Detective see a side of life the average person is 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.160 never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.080 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.280 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.599 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, staid, 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.200 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.480 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.840 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:31.520 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.680 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.720 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.559 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.920 Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. We all 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.199 carry our own personal demons. Sometimes you look at other 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.520 people's lives and think, because of the success they've achieved, 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:58.720 life must be pretty good. But sadly life can be 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:01.920 a bit more complicated, even for Olympic gold medalists like 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:06.119 today's guest Matthew Mitcham. This might be a slight deviation 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:08.360 from your typical eye Catch Killers. But I thought in 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:10.520 the Olympic spirit, it would be good to get an 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:14.480 Olympic athlete on I Catch Killers. In two thousand and eight, 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.399 Matt stood on the podium at the Beijing Olympics to 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.920 receive his gold medal for ten meter platform diving. He 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.240 was only twenty years old at the time, and he 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.000 was the first individual openly gay male athlete ever to 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.120 win an Olympic goal. What the public didn't realize at 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:32.560 the time, Matt had been dealing with his own issues, 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.880 including drug addiction. Today, Matt has agreed to come on 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.960 I Catch Killers and talk about the highs and lows 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.600 of his life. Matthew Mitcham, Welcome to I Catch Killers. 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:43.640 Thank you. 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.319 Is it a bit daunting the name of the podcast 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.720 I Catch Killers? And you're talking to an next homicide 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.080 detective And I know in the chats we've had before 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:54.600 you're thinking how do I fit into this? 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:56.120 Yeah, like, what do you know? 0:01:57.760 --> 0:01:59.639 Well, that's what we're going to get to the bottom 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.600 of to get confessions out of your mat. Look, thanks 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:07.000 for coming on your life. In prepping for the podcast 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:10.120 and following your career. You know your household name at 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:12.680 certain times in this country over here in Australia that 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.680 you've experienced the highs and layers of life like most 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:19.200 of us do. But in your case it was probably 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.600 more difficult because it was such a public thing and 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:25.280 you're only twenty when you won Olympic gold, and in Australia, 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.760 as you know, when in Olympic gold, you've become a 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.960 household name. What was it like dealing with dealing with 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.760 that sort of attention at such a young age. 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:38.960 It's one of those weird things. I think, I I 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.160 kind of I think I wished it upon myself for 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.760 a very long time in that a very powerful driving 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.680 force throughout my teenage years. Like that actually kept me 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.280 in the sport for you know, many years longer than 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:55.440 what I probably would have otherwise. 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:58.680 Was the fact that you know. 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:04.560 I I was very driven by external motivation, like by 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:10.519 external validation, because I I've never been able to esteem 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.000 myself and within I've never had good self esteem. 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.600 My idea of my value has always. 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.639 Been completely dependent on you know, like feedback from other people, 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:25.800 like you know, validation and positive reinforcement from you know, 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:31.280 my mother who didn't give it freely, or you know, 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.639 from validation from other people or you know, then I 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.240 ended up finding a sport where I got feedback about 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:39.920 myself in the form of numbers. So if I got 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:41.280 an eight, they thought I was good. If I got 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:42.400 a nine, they thought I was great, And if I 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.640 got a ten, they thought I was perfect, which you know, 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.120 was a very It was a very powerful motivator for 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.160 me to try and be better and better in order 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.720 to feel better about myself just because of my achievements. 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:59.600 Right. It's interesting that your validation of yourself is from 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.800 X journal achievements, and I want to dive deeper into 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.960 that later on in the podcast, because that certainly came 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.920 out in the interviews that you've done and the way 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.720 that you talk about what drove you. I want to 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.120 ask the question. You're the first Olympic gold medalist. We've 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.760 had on Eye Catch Killers, So congratulations. We got to 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:23.280 bronze with Harry Garside, the boxer, we've had him on 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.719 the podcast, but we've never got to the gold. So 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.640 you're the first gold medalist. I want to ask you. 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.240 I'm trying to get a sense of what drives you, 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.800 what gives you the sense to believe that you could 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.640 be the best in the world in your chosen field. Now, 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:40.920 I think I'm a fairly driven person. I think, yeah, 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.400 I can achieve this, I can achieve that. But there's 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.760 different levels and what mindset do you have to think 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:48.600 I'm going to be the best in the world of 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.440 what I'm doing? What drives you for that? 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:56.520 Unfortunately, I think as a child and as a teenager, 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:02.160 the motivation was actually quite negative because I grew up 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.600 in you know, probably not the I guess, the healthiest 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.400 of environments. I grew up as an only child of 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:14.719 a single parent who had you know, she had me 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:19.480 extremely young, she was eighteen, and she also had undiagnosed 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:27.599 aspergers like autism and ADHD, and so she found it 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:32.440 extremely difficult to cope with well even just you know, 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.600 living life on life's terms, like dealing with her own emotions, 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.640 let alone having this you know, completely chaotic, you know, unpredictable, 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:45.960 you know thing running around that. You know, I think 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:51.200 it stressed her out a lot, and you know, so 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:57.080 her default reaction to everything was kind of I guess, rage, 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.800 because she didn't know how to handle her feelings at all. 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:02.120 That's just how they came out. 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:07.240 And you know, she has admitted to me in later 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:12.960 years that you know, she kind of you know, used 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:18.320 that fear that I had of her volatility as a 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.400 way to control me, to make me easier to control. 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:29.440 But the impact of that was that I had anxiety, 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.240 like from as early as I can remember. And and 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:34.800 you know, she also used to spend a lot of 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.839 time in bed, you know, with chronic fatigue, and she 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:42.040 would just go absolutely baalistic if I, you know, if 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.839 I made noise and woke her up, and so you know, 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:46.480 there was a lot of neglect there as well. And 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.560 I found out I figured out pretty early that when 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:54.440 I did something really good, then I got this positive 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.080 reinforcement and this validation that like that felt really good, 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.080 and that's I guess I felt like that's what I 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:00.480 need it. 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:04.920 And so then I guess my child mind kind of. 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.560 Played that forward and thought, well, if I do something 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.560 good and I get that positive reinforcement, then if I'm 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.000 the best in the world at something, then you know, 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.120 then Mum will love me and everyone will love me, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.360 and you know, I'll feel whole, I'll feel complete. So 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.040 you know, right literally from the age of about you know, eight, 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.800 I had this really profound thought like I have to 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:29.240 be the best in the world at something, had no 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:30.880 idea what it would be. Definitely wasn't going to be 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.480 sport because I was, you know, one of those kids 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.000 that was, you know, always picked last at lunchtime for 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.960 soccer and cricket and football and all that. It was 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.320 not good at running carnival, swimming, swimming carnivals like nothing. 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.560 You know, I just got really lucky that I ended 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.880 up finding trampling and happened to be pretty good. 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.880 At it, and that led into diving. Breaking it down 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:59.680 even further, the psychology, the psychology of thinking, yeah, they're lucky. 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.880 Were you intimidated by watching other people what they could 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.440 do and think I can do better, Like I'm just 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.480 I'm trying to understand that mindset because I think I've 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:10.320 got a strong mind. But I'd get to a level 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.960 and just go I can't compete on that level. There 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.520 must have been some confidence, internal confidence that thought, yeah, 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:18.440 I can be the best. 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.080 I think I was just kind of blessed with. 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.920 Quite a lot of natural ability in terms of the 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.280 you know, the trampolining and then the diving. 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.960 You know, I it was more a case of. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:42.480 Having to just stick it out because you know, I 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.920 saw diving as my ticket to being special. But I 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.839 hated diving from about the age of fourteen, so I've 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.360 already started to slide into a pretty profound period of 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:56.439 depression from fourteen and so, and I hated I hated diving, 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.000 and but I saw it as my ticket to being special. 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.920 So I kept on doing it. But because I wasn't 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:05.760 enjoying it, I you know, I would get to the pool, 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.000 I would do everything I needed to do as quickly 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:13.120 as possible, but all on autopilot, like without being mentally present, 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:17.080 just completely checked out and letting my body kind of 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.600 do what it needed to be done, and then leaving. 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.520 And you know, by the time I was eighteen, I 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:26.280 was the third best in the country in Australia, like, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:31.440 you know, not just juniors but senior as well. So 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:33.680 I kind of knew that, you know, the longer I 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.000 held on, I would eventually be going to an Olympics. 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:40.760 You know, it did take. You know, I was good. 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.800 I wasn't great, but I was I was good, And 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.160 that was kind of that was that was basically just 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:51.600 a bit of natural ability really and repetition over time. 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:57.560 My biggest issue was the mental side of things in 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:58.800 not wanting to be there. 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.000 I suppose in a perverse sort of way that might 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.079 have might have helped. It took a little bit of 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.480 pressure off because it wasn't something this golden dream I 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:12.280 want to be this world champion. It was more I 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.120 need to be this world champion. So maybe it was 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.400 helpful in a perverse sort of way. 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.680 Yeah, so it was, of course, like in a way 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:24.880 it was in a perverse kind of way. Yeah, it 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.400 was helpful in that it just kept me in the sport, 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.120 you know, for a certain amount of time. I did 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:33.040 retire at eighteen with no intention of ever returning to 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.960 the sport and ended up taking a year off. And 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:39.840 in that year I got a message from a coach 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.960 in another city saying, look, Matt, if you ever want 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.000 to start diving again, I'll always have a place in 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.280 my squad for you. And you know, it was just 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:51.720 the way that that message was worded in a really nurturing, 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:55.240 like not pushy way. Who it kind of demonstrated to 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.640 me that he cared for my welfare as a human 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.840 being more than just me as a as a competing 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:05.160 athlete that's going to get them results. And and you know, 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:06.920 I knew this guy and I knew that he would 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.240 be kind of the right person for me, and so I, 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.880 you know, I packed up everything in Brisbane, which wasn't 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.200 that much because I was eighteen and really just you 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:22.600 know basically and and yeah, moved to Sydney, and that 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:27.200 was fifteen months before the Beijing Olympic Games. But the 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.920 you know, the environment that that coach created for me, 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.520 that really inclusive environment, that where I knew that I 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:38.320 was accepted for exactly who I was, meant that you know, 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:40.760 there weren't a lot of the issues of you know, 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:45.960 feeling alienated like I had before. That massive geographical had 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.560 a huge impact on you know, on my mental health, 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.160 and and that training environment actually had a huge impact 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.480 on my mental health. And that enabled me to be 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.160 very present in my training sessions for the first time 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.160 in years. And being present enabled me to be very 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.800 analytical about you know, my dives and very technical and 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.400 so I basically broke my technique down to scratch, down 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.679 to basics, and then rebuilt it up to get you know. 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:14.960 Closer and closer to perfection. 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.120 And you know, I was kind of I was really 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:23.360 only able to do all this because you know, I 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.840 guess because I was happy in my training environment and 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:32.560 being present that. I guess the motivation changed from you know, 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:37.360 being very externally focused to actually, I wanted to see 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.760 how good I could get, like how close to perfect 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.760 I could get, And so the motivation became an internal motivation. 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.040 I was now driving, you know, how hard I was working, 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.520 which then meant that I could push myself further and 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:53.320 further into discomfort where the growth is. And so my 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.440 progress just shot up like an absolute rocket because you know, 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.800 fifteen months isn't it really isn't a lot of time 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.560 to prepare for an Olympic Games, especially after you know, 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:06.160 spending a year doing very very unhealthy things with my body. 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:12.600 So it, yeah, the catalyst for there was, you know 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.440 that that environment that the coach created. 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:17.760 That makes sense. And I hear a lot and we've 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.880 had quite a few sportsmen on the podcast, but I've 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.960 heard a lot of people talk about people that have 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:27.000 been identified as good coaches, the Wayne Bennett types in 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.679 rugby league, Johnny Lewis in boxing, and quite often it's 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.120 about I don't want to just make them a better player, 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.280 I want to make them a better human being. And 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.840 people seem to resonate and respond to that, and it 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.760 sounds like you found a coach that adopted that same 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:42.240 type of mindset. 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.280 Yeah, absolutely, you know, he. 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:52.520 I guess, and maybe it wasn't you know, this hugely 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:58.560 kind of remarkable special thing. But I mean, no, it is, like, 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:04.240 here's a remarkable guy. But I think it was such 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:09.120 a huge contrast because I'd only ever been with one 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.040 kind of coach, you know, from one country that is 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:16.679 the leading country in the sport, but it's so culturally different, 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:20.560 and the way that these coaches would coach was very 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.960 corrections only, like they would only ever give the corrections. 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:29.400 For what to do. And when you are. 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.240 When you've got this, you're hearing everything through this filter 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:40.040 of depression, hearing nothing but corrections only for five hours 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.560 a day, six days a week, week after week, month 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.120 after month, year after year, just over and over, it's 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:47.640 nothing but like what you did wrong? 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.640 It really starts to just feel like criticism. 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.400 And so you know, here I am just being criticized 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.880 for years, and you know, it took me a few 0:14:57.960 --> 0:14:59.240 years to be like, why don't you ever tell me 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.760 what was good about it? And you know, for them 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:03.200 to go, well, if I say nothing, then there was 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.360 nothing wrong. With it, but you know, you don't unless 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.680 you kind of you know that that is the framework 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:14.000 that you're working with. And even still like it's you know, 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.600 particularly for someone with such for self esteem to never 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:20.640 ever get validation was just kind of it just felt 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.239 like punishment all the time, nothing but criticism. 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.360 Yeah, well, you've explained it well, and I can understand 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.400 the reason that you'd be be thinking that way. I 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.280 often look at life and I think about the way 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.520 I was brought up, and I say this, and I 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.920 tried to correct it with my kids. I went through 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.480 life competing in things through fear of failure, and that 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.840 was what was driven into me. Don't fail at this, 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.080 So the way I might play sport will be you 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:48.800 won't get the best out of me until I've got 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:50.680 my back to the wall. It's not about the joy 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.280 of success. I tried to flip that with my kids 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.640 and just encourage like the success more than the fear 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.720 of fear of failure. So I suppose it's each individual 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.600 has a different way of approaching things and what resonates 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.080 for them. The type of coach that you're talking about, 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.360 I would imagine in certain cultures that's what's needed. But 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.800 for you, it sounded like it was the wrong fit, 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.960 just the criticism of correction, correction, correction, instead of giving 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.760 you some positive feedback. So I understand where you're coming from. 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:25.760 I actually read a study recently about two groups of 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.600 I think it was like math students, like the students 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.960 basically who were doing math competitions or something, and one 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:37.840 group of students was praised for their outcome for their success, 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.000 and the other group of students was praised for their effort. 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.359 And what ended up happening. 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:49.400 Over time was that the students who were praised for 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.840 their effort ended up outperforming because the students who were 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:58.400 praised for their outcome became too stressed about having to 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.960 always be the best and be sics as for that 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.439 that ended up giving them kind of I guess in 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.800 a way like a performance anxiety or you know, you 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.040 know that perfectionism where you you know that that fear 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:16.639 of criticism and so you almost don't try things because 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.480 you are fear of not getting it perfect. So so 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:23.320 it was it was the students who are praised for 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:29.080 the effort who ended up progressing and outperforming the outcome focus. 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:33.159 That's interesting, isn't it The way to approach things. You 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.439 mentioned something when we first started speaking, and I've just 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.760 it's not a direct quote, but it's something in one 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:41.720 of the interviews that you've done, one of the many 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.320 interviews that you've done. It says a lot about what 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:47.520 you've learned about life, and it also gives me a 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:49.439 good insight in the type of person that you are. 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.199 And you touched on it right from the start, so 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:53.679 it sounds like it's consistent in the way that you 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.520 approach it. I've sort of combined the essence of what 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.199 you've been saying in your interviews. Your success does not 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.119 define you as a person or helps you with your 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.360 own self esteem. Helping others generates your self esteem more 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.680 than focusing on your own achievements. Do you want to explain, 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:13.159 if I've quoted you correctly, what you mean by that 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:13.760 that approach? 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.199 I mean, I didn't learn that until I, you know, 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:24.479 finally went to rehab in twenty eleven, I think when 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.520 I was twenty three years old, and that was after 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:33.560 you know, using drugs and alcohol as a not coping 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.119 mechanism all throughout my teenage years and then you know, 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:41.679 having a relapse of that after the Beijing Olympics until 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.520 it got to a point of absolute desperation when I 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.199 finally went to rehab. And you know, that's where I 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.680 learned about, you know, that I had such poor self 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.000 esteem and why I, you know, couldn't handle my feelings 0:18:56.000 --> 0:19:00.080 and why I was so entirely dependent on. 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.720 All of these external sources of esteem. 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.679 In order to just survive, really because I just couldn't 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.720 esteem myself from within. And and it's like that thing 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.760 of what's the difference between what you can control and 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.359 what you can't control? And you know, external sources of esteem, 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.840 you can't control that because you can't control anything outside 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:20.200 of yourself. 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.320 You can't control other people, other places, other things. 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.520 Try as you might, but you can't guarantee that you 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.000 can actually control that. You will continue to get that 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:33.879 consistent source and flow of external esteem, and so, you know, 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:37.119 in order to generate it from within. It's like, well, 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.560 how do you build your own value as a person? 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.560 How do you feel good about yourself? And to me, 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.560 the best way, the most effective way I found to 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.159 do that was to be of service to other people, 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:54.560 To help other people with no expectation of receiving anything 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.199 in return. Is like the you know that's the the 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:01.080 crem dela cremb even you know, just help anybody else 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:03.800 out in any way, is you know, it makes you 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:08.120 feel good about yourself, and so you know, that's that's 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:10.000 why I you know, that's why I do stuff like 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:11.919 this and talk about my mental health and you know 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.439 all of this what's and all kinds of stuff that 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.240 you know, I used to be and you know, maybe 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:20.200 sometimes occasionally still do still feel a little bit of 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.160 shame every now and then, but I'm able to knock 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:22.720 it on the head. 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:24.879 But I share my story. 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.159 Because in the hope that it will help other people 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.639 to relate to it or you know, to help to 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:34.119 make change in sport for example. And I you know, 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:37.200 I do a lot of work with you with with charities, 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.760 you know, particularly like around drug drug charities or lgbt 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:46.480 Q plus charities, and I also do I guess most 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.880 of my work is you know, within diversity, equity inclusion 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.800 to try and make the world corporate spaces and particularly 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.960 sports much more inclusive places so that you know, to 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:03.159 to give everybody the environment for them to thrive. 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:07.080 Yeah. I think when people talk and people with a 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:12.800 profile like yourself that talk openly about strengths, weaknesses, fears, successes, 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:15.600 or that it has to help because we all put 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:18.720 ourselves in their little bubble and think you people just 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:21.520 don't understand, and then you have conversations like we're having 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:23.920 now and you go, oh, yeah, I get that. I 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.680 look at my life and talking back like I was 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:31.040 a homicide detective and I could be failing in every 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.760 aspect of my personal life and relationships and things like that, 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.160 but I got something from helping people when I as 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.879 a homicide detective. And when I lost that, when that 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.040 was taken away, I saw they had to look at 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:45.439 myself and go, well, are you really a good person 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:47.840 or are you just a good person because people said 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:52.040 you were because you were helping victims. And I realized 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:54.320 that how much I got from that, how much I 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.480 got from helping others, and it made me feel good 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:01.000 about myself, no matter how bad my personal life or 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:05.240 other aspects of my life was. Well within I was 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.800 telling myself, well, I'm a good person because I'm helping 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:11.280 other people. So it helped me through through stages like that. 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.479 You touched briefly on your childhood. Where did you grow up? 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.640 And you're a single child with single mother, and as 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:24.520 you explained, that had certain issues that she was dealing with. 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:27.360 How would you describe your childhood when you look back. 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:33.119 I grew up in Brisbane and it was a pretty 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:39.119 lonely childhood. I'm not gonna lie. I you know, I 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:42.080 spent a lot of time it was very I had 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:45.080 to be very quiet a lot of the time, so 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:51.080 I you know, any kind of silent, silent thing I 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:53.440 could do, I would do. So I was either outside 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.399 jumping on the trampoline, or I was kind of reading 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:01.720 the encyclopedia because I just loved I mean it was 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:06.720 it was escapism basically, like you know, learning reading the encyclopedia. 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:10.840 But I just I loved it. I just loved loved reading. 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:16.879 But never fiction, always nonfiction. And yeah, it was a 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:20.359 very anxious childhood. You know. I just remember constantly being 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:24.200 afraid that I was going to be you. 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:24.840 Know, screamed at. 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:28.399 You know that kind of blood curdling scream that just 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:31.639 like that goes all the way to the core of 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:34.479 you and just rattles your bones and just and then 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:37.160 that that that feeling of dread just kind of then 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:39.920 radiates out from your body and you just feel ill. 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:44.480 That was the kind of you know that was that 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:48.879 was a pretty common occurrence. But I think, you know, 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:56.040 there's there's something about being screamed at that that really 0:23:56.080 --> 0:24:01.680 just does something to your self esteem. Like, yes, I 0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:04.320 don't know, for some reason, I'm particularly affected by words 0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:08.159 more so than you know, like words affect me more 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:13.320 than being hit does, which is just so weird. But 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:18.159 you know, that's that's just how I made and you know, 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:20.880 and when I'm aware of it, you know, I can 0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:25.000 try and do put in measures to stop that. But yeah, 0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:29.080 it's for some reason, you know, bones, bones, heel, but words. 0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:32.000 Yeah, let's stay with you. 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:37.200 Yeah, I understand that, And it's the type of person 0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:39.600 person you are. I can understand how it would affect 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:42.040 you deeply. Did you have any role models, anyone that 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:45.000 you looked up to, aspired to, or people that you 0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:48.520 thought were ah good influences in your life in those 0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:50.080 early years. 0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:54.639 Not really, I think I don't know. 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:56.879 I feel like I was just kind of in survival 0:24:56.920 --> 0:25:00.359 mode and I was very like kind of yeah, I 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:06.439 was always looking very inwards, very you know, introspective, very reflective, 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:11.280 you know, just very very trapped up here rather than 0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:14.719 looking to the outside world for you know, for guidance 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:18.040 or of support or anything like that. 0:25:18.280 --> 0:25:21.119 Okay, you look back at that, and I think every 0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:26.439 child deserves that safe space. And that's thoughts with you 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:28.880 growing up in that environment. That's good if you've got 0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:33.320 someone that can support you and build that confidence. You're 0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:36.040 also dealing at an early age we've come in to 0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:40.800 terms with your sexuality. When did you discover your sexuality 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:43.480 and when did you try to suppress it? Because that 0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:44.560 must have been hard to. 0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:50.320 I had a Okay, I. 0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:53.320 Just quite a little kind of little shame thing going on, 0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:56.080 like I was going to filter myself. 0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:58.000 But at the end of the day, it's like, I mean, 0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:00.199 it is what it is. It. 0:26:00.240 --> 0:26:04.199 I had a sexual experience. You know, I think I 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:06.879 was about five or six and he was probably twelve 0:26:06.960 --> 0:26:10.440 or thirteen, and. 0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:13.920 You know that ended up Yeah. 0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:17.280 So that I guess that was probably the first sexual experience. 0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:21.520 And but I knew, I guess I kind of knew 0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:25.240 that I liked boys, you. 0:26:25.200 --> 0:26:27.800 Know, around then or you know, and beyond then. I 0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:28.679 went to a. 0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:35.240 Very religious primary school because it was kind of local 0:26:35.400 --> 0:26:39.720 and and you know, the there was kind of the 0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:41.800 assumption that because as a private school, you're going to 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:45.159 get like a better educational you know, those religious schools 0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:47.239 because they had this sort of semi private you're going 0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:50.360 to get a better education than at a state school. 0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:53.320 So but so I went to a quite a religious 0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:55.720 primary school that had like a church on the grounds 0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:58.199 and everything, and you know, there was a lot of 0:26:58.240 --> 0:27:02.800 religious education. There were like a little old little tabernacle 0:27:02.920 --> 0:27:07.040 kind of thing in the in every room, and you know, 0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:08.160 lots of Bible. 0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:09.560 Reading throughout the week. 0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:13.240 And it was you know, kind of around the eight 0:27:13.359 --> 0:27:17.760 or nine mark where I started. You know, nobody, I 0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:20.720 don't think anybody ever said it to me explicitly, but 0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:25.480 you know, I think through all of that and and 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:28.880 you know, probably messages that I was absorbing from society 0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:32.000 as well growing up in the nineties. You know, I 0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:35.800 just I basically kind of got the idea that gay 0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:37.199 was not as good as straight, and I knew that 0:27:37.240 --> 0:27:41.639 I liked boys, and and I guess the shaming of that, 0:27:42.800 --> 0:27:47.720 you know, started around that age. And and so I 0:27:47.720 --> 0:27:50.560 put a rubber band around my risk because I, you know, 0:27:50.840 --> 0:27:52.800 having a shame around you know, how I was feeling. 0:27:52.960 --> 0:27:55.560 I'd put a rubber band around my wrist and every 0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:57.600 time I had a gay thought. I would kind of 0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:00.240 snap the rubber band against my wrist as heart as 0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:04.119 I could to try and like train myself have Loovian 0:28:04.200 --> 0:28:06.439 style out of out of being gay, you know, to 0:28:06.440 --> 0:28:09.280 try and associate pain with these gay thoughts. I'm hoping 0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:11.680 that that would kind of train me out of it. 0:28:12.240 --> 0:28:15.240 And yeah, so I. 0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:18.200 Just want to say, on that matter, what a horrible 0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:22.240 way to go through your life trying to suppress your feelings, 0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:26.679 like feelings like, yeah, they're strong, it's to suppress them. 0:28:26.760 --> 0:28:29.000 You're lying to yourself and you've taken it to the 0:28:29.040 --> 0:28:33.560 next level. Have loov Dog style that you inflicting pain 0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:37.400 when you when you have a thought, yeah about your desires. 0:28:37.640 --> 0:28:39.600 It must have it must have stuffed you up in 0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:41.640 the in the mind. That must have really confused you 0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:42.800 as a young guy. 0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:48.440 Yeah, and you know there's not only is there kind 0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:53.400 of this fear, but then there's then there's even more 0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:56.880 shame put onto it because it's like this isn't working, 0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:02.120 like I can't, like I'm failing it there, like you know, 0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:05.240 so there's a far out man. 0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:07.920 Yeah, it's. 0:29:08.400 --> 0:29:11.280 It is pretty upsetting to think about, Like you know, 0:29:12.120 --> 0:29:16.040 I did eventually kind of figure out that it wasn't 0:29:16.080 --> 0:29:18.560 working and just kind of let it go. 0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:23.160 And you know, I think I just had to stop 0:29:23.240 --> 0:29:25.120 thinking about it for a while. 0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:30.000 Yeah, because I don't remember kind of thinking about it 0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:32.400 anymore for a couple of years, and so I think 0:29:32.400 --> 0:29:35.520 it was just stop stopping thinking about it, basically suppressing it. 0:29:36.040 --> 0:29:38.360 Just stop thinking about it, it'll go away, ignoring it. 0:29:38.600 --> 0:29:42.280 When did you come out and acknowledge, like we'll talk 0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:45.200 about your time when in the media interview before before 0:29:45.240 --> 0:29:47.720 the Olympics, but in your personal life, when did you 0:29:47.760 --> 0:29:50.560 come out and just acknowledge it and accept Well, that's 0:29:50.640 --> 0:29:53.240 that's who I am. 0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:56.160 I mean, I guess I was. I guess I was 0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:58.320 getting more comfortable with it. 0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:01.240 See. 0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:01.520 Yeah. 0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:05.920 The thing is like, yeah, probably around sort of thirteen fourteen, 0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:11.600 you know, like I had a close girlfriend who knew, 0:30:11.720 --> 0:30:20.080 and then I guess I started finding a few more friends. 0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:24.720 But yeah, it was only like people who are kind 0:30:24.760 --> 0:30:30.280 of very close to me. And because I'd started diving 0:30:30.280 --> 0:30:32.920 with the AIS from the age of eleven, which is 0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:35.880 way too young to be confident enough in your sexual 0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:39.840 identity to be telling anybody. By the time I was 0:30:40.120 --> 0:30:43.160 kind of comfortable enough to start telling people I'd already 0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:45.720 been training with these people for five hours a day, 0:30:45.760 --> 0:30:50.480 six days a week for several years, and so I 0:30:50.520 --> 0:30:55.280 then consequently felt very stuck in and not being able 0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:59.360 to really to talk to anybody within my training environment 0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:02.080 and open up to them, because I felt like that 0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:05.040 would be admitting that I had been lying to them. 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:07.080 I've been deceiving years. 0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:10.880 Yeah, I can understand that. It makes it makes it 0:31:10.880 --> 0:31:12.160 a little bit difficult, doesn't it. 0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:16.000 Yeah, So that left me feeling stuck in that training 0:31:16.040 --> 0:31:18.920 environment for a couple of years, which consequently left me 0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:22.080 feeling quite alienated. And that didn't That really didn't help 0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:26.280 with you know, how happy I was within the training environment. 0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:29.960 With the training environment, when did you you start off 0:31:30.000 --> 0:31:32.960 doing trampoline and you reached the high level in that? 0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:35.600 Talk us through that, how you how you got into that, 0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:38.560 and what level you reached, and then how you diverted 0:31:38.600 --> 0:31:40.120 your interests in diving. 0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:46.120 I started trampolining when I was nine. I because I 0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:49.920 got given a backyard trampoline by my brand dad's girlfriend 0:31:50.000 --> 0:31:54.160 at the time, just a super functional family going generations back. 0:31:56.080 --> 0:31:59.400 But her son didn't need the trampoline anymore, he'd grown 0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:01.920 out of it. So I got given the trampoline and 0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:06.400 I just absolutely loved it, and so went to trampling 0:32:07.000 --> 0:32:10.080 lessons from the age of nine, and you just absolutely 0:32:10.080 --> 0:32:14.440 loved flipping and being acrobatic and performing. And you know, 0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:18.480 probably the you know, the pretty leotards didn't hurt either, 0:32:19.240 --> 0:32:20.600 but you know there was something. 0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:23.160 About in your boxes, yeah, exactly. 0:32:23.440 --> 0:32:26.840 There was something about, you know, the idea of the 0:32:27.120 --> 0:32:30.920 aim is to be kind of prettier, all better than 0:32:31.040 --> 0:32:33.400 everybody else that you know, that kind of resonated me 0:32:33.680 --> 0:32:36.400 on a very deep level, you know, because I'd never 0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:42.120 be competitive at anything before. So I, you know, I 0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:44.440 was doing trampoline. I went to my first World Junior 0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:48.920 Championships at eleven, and then you know, and then started 0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:54.240 diving not long after that because I you know, in 0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:58.520 the summer holidays, yeah, mom just used to use the 0:32:59.040 --> 0:33:02.959 local pool as like a babysit all day daycare. Basically, 0:33:02.960 --> 0:33:04.479 they dropped off at nine o'clock in the morning, pick 0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:06.400 me up at five or six o'clock in the evening. 0:33:06.960 --> 0:33:09.959 And my local pool just happened to be the Slimen 0:33:10.320 --> 0:33:14.720 Aquatic Center, which is the national training center for diving. 0:33:14.960 --> 0:33:19.040 Okay, and you know, back in the nineties, they used to. 0:33:20.640 --> 0:33:23.000 They used to have the boards open to the public, 0:33:24.320 --> 0:33:26.600 you know, for like an hour or two, like every 0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:29.760 every day before I reaches shut all that dawn. 0:33:30.360 --> 0:33:33.400 I remember those days. It just sounds ridiculous jump off 0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:37.720 the ten minutes. Okay, well have you ever done it before? Man? Can? 0:33:37.920 --> 0:33:40.840 I just can't imagine that these days. But yeah, I 0:33:40.920 --> 0:33:43.680 know it was a different different times. Wasn't a different times? 0:33:43.720 --> 0:33:47.120 It was, you know, so everybody was kind of doing 0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:50.360 bomb dives and I was showing off doing double flips 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:52.160 into bomb dives because I was a show pony. And 0:33:53.920 --> 0:33:56.960 one of the national coaches just happened to be walking 0:33:56.960 --> 0:33:59.880 out along pool deck and saw me, and I was like, Hey, 0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:01.080 how do you know how to do that? 0:34:01.120 --> 0:34:02.400 Do you do? You want to try diving? 0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:04.800 And so I started diving the next week and I 0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:08.560 was doing both sports for a couple of years. Went 0:34:08.600 --> 0:34:13.759 to my second World Junior Trampoline Championships at thirteen, won 0:34:13.760 --> 0:34:19.359 a gold medal, and I was progressing through up through 0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:22.120 diving very very quickly because I already had all the skills, 0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:27.560 and you know, trampling was just a demonstration sport in 0:34:28.560 --> 0:34:30.920 the Olympics at the time. And so there was not 0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:33.759 even a one guaranteed spot for Australia to compete, and 0:34:33.760 --> 0:34:36.320 I was a fourteen year old competing against twenty six 0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:41.719 seven year olds. You know, it just wasn't It was 0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:43.920 a more logical decision for me to go to diving, 0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:46.040 which you know, it was much better funded, had a 0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:50.080 lot more opportunities for international travel and to go to 0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:52.520 the Olympics, a lot more more opportunities to go to 0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:56.319 the Olympics. So I ended up making the switch full 0:34:56.360 --> 0:34:58.760 time to diving at you know, thirteen, fourteen. 0:34:59.120 --> 0:35:01.680 And you hang on to that for quite a few years, 0:35:01.680 --> 0:35:03.880 but then you said you fell out of love with 0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:07.879 diving and your life went off the track before you 0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:11.239 decided to straighten out and go for the Olympics. What 0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:13.880 was that period of life? Like what happened there? 0:35:14.080 --> 0:35:18.040 I just from about the age of fourteen, I started 0:35:18.120 --> 0:35:25.080 to just sink into this this depression which I can't 0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:30.080 there was no one triggering traumatic event. I think it 0:35:30.120 --> 0:35:34.440 was just you know, just the hormonal goat rodeo you know, 0:35:34.520 --> 0:35:37.920 of being a teenager, and also quite a lot of 0:35:38.200 --> 0:35:43.360 genetic predisposition, I'd say as well. But yeah, so from fourteen, 0:35:44.000 --> 0:35:47.600 you know, I was having these very big feelings that 0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:56.799 I couldn't handle, and I discovered, I mean that at 0:35:56.840 --> 0:36:00.760 some stage in my childhood I had made a promise 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:03.879 to myself that I was never going to act out 0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:07.200 my anger on another person because of you know, because 0:36:07.600 --> 0:36:10.239 that's how it had made me feel, and I never 0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:15.600 wanted to make another person feel that way. Unfortunately, I 0:36:15.640 --> 0:36:23.280 did have very extreme, like uncontainable anger, but I acted 0:36:23.320 --> 0:36:28.640 it out on myself in with self harm, and you know, 0:36:28.719 --> 0:36:34.640 I ended up having to like I was, I was 0:36:34.640 --> 0:36:36.720 self harming. I was, I was, I was cutting myself 0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:41.080 and and I ended up having to pull my grandma 0:36:41.120 --> 0:36:44.200 one time to pick me up from where I was 0:36:44.280 --> 0:36:46.040 and take me to the hospital to get some stitches. 0:36:46.120 --> 0:36:50.240 And and you know that's and and the the worry 0:36:50.440 --> 0:36:56.040 that I caused in her from that made me realize 0:36:56.040 --> 0:36:58.080 that that's not an acceptable way, that's not an appropriate 0:36:58.080 --> 0:36:59.799 way for me to deal with my feelings. But rather 0:36:59.840 --> 0:37:02.200 than actually find an appropriate way to do with my feelings, 0:37:02.800 --> 0:37:06.520 I was just like binge drinking on the weekends because 0:37:07.400 --> 0:37:11.680 you know, I had this wonderful, wonderful effect of making 0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:15.080 me throw up and pass out, which was kind of 0:37:15.400 --> 0:37:17.760 like a mental break for me. It was a break 0:37:17.800 --> 0:37:21.080 from my head and a break from my feelings. And 0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:24.520 so I was literally just sculling, like blocking my nose 0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:30.080 and sculling pure spirits like every weekend. And then that 0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:34.239 you know, progressed to you know, weed and LSD and 0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:38.760 other drugs, and yeah, by the time I was eighteen, 0:37:40.040 --> 0:37:41.040 it just wasn't enough for me. 0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:42.920 Like, you know, diving was good in that. 0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:47.760 I guess it probably did provide some sort of like control. 0:37:48.239 --> 0:37:51.120 It controlled it in a way because I wasn't seldom 0:37:51.360 --> 0:37:53.520 sometimes it was, but I was seldom drinking during the 0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:56.720 week because I had to keep on showing up for diving. 0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:02.400 So in some ways, you know, diving was really good 0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:05.400 at that. But then you know, by the time I 0:38:05.400 --> 0:38:10.279 was eighteen, that that ticket to being special was not 0:38:10.520 --> 0:38:15.879 enough to outweigh how much I was hating it. 0:38:16.280 --> 0:38:20.560 It sounds like self loathing, and it's you weren't drinking 0:38:20.600 --> 0:38:22.239 for the fun of it. Hey, we're going to get 0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:26.040 wild and enjoy ourselves. You were drinking the mask the pain, 0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:29.040 literally knock yourself, knock yourself out. 0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:31.360 And yeah, it was escapism for sure. 0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:33.879 And I would imagine after you come down from that 0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:36.920 and also when you've gone down the path of the 0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:41.960 drugs that you'd wake up feeling worse about yourself, just 0:38:41.960 --> 0:38:42.840 just be spiraling. 0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:51.799 Yeah, particularly the you know, once I turned eighteen, it 0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:54.520 was it was all like it was the party drugs 0:38:54.560 --> 0:38:56.439 as well, like it was the stimulants. It had never 0:38:56.480 --> 0:39:00.880 been the stimulants before, but when I eighteen, it was 0:39:01.200 --> 0:39:06.000 it was everything, and the stimulants had more of that 0:39:05.719 --> 0:39:09.960 had that effect of like making me feel worse afterwards. 0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:12.640 Then you come down front high and exactly. 0:39:13.280 --> 0:39:16.560 So then you know, then that kind of reinforces the 0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:19.839 cycle of like, you know, feeling even worse. So oh, 0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:21.560 I know, I know what's going to make me feel better. 0:39:21.600 --> 0:39:23.439 So you know, you take your pick me up again 0:39:23.480 --> 0:39:25.840 and then you know, temporarily you do feel better, and 0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:29.280 then you feel worse again, and you know, and that's 0:39:29.360 --> 0:39:32.680 you know, so horrible, that feeling is so so horrible 0:39:32.719 --> 0:39:35.040 that you you know, you know, okay, I know how 0:39:35.040 --> 0:39:37.080 to fix this very quickly, and so that's how it 0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:39.920 perpetuates and it reinforces the cycle. 0:39:40.200 --> 0:39:42.880 Yeah, for that, Like I hear a lot of people 0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:46.319 have come on my catch killers and they've been at 0:39:46.320 --> 0:39:48.800 that point in their life and then their life goes 0:39:48.920 --> 0:39:52.040 left and that means you know, twenty years in jail 0:39:52.200 --> 0:39:55.040 or all sorts of things. They hit some layers. How 0:39:55.080 --> 0:39:58.640 did you at that age turn it round to say, okay, 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:00.440 I'm going to clean up my act and going to 0:40:00.480 --> 0:40:03.000 the Olympics. What was was there one thing that pointed 0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:05.359 you back in the direction or how did you how 0:40:05.360 --> 0:40:07.960 did you turn your life from the obvious direction that 0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:11.600 was heading at that stage to the success that you 0:40:11.680 --> 0:40:15.600 achieved at the Olympics and the dedication and the focus. 0:40:17.800 --> 0:40:22.439 It was literally that text message from that coach, you know, saying, look, 0:40:22.440 --> 0:40:24.479 if you ever want to start diving again, I'll always 0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:27.319 have a place in my squad for you. And you 0:40:27.360 --> 0:40:31.080 know that's I knew that it would be different to 0:40:31.160 --> 0:40:34.759 how it had always been, like to what I was 0:40:34.840 --> 0:40:38.160 used to in terms of, you know, the dynamic within 0:40:38.200 --> 0:40:43.120 a training environment, the dynamic between myself and a coach, 0:40:43.800 --> 0:40:46.920 and you know, I felt it was a shame to 0:40:47.320 --> 0:40:49.319 you know, to quit and to never actually go to 0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:52.600 an Olympic Games. Yes, so you know I knew that 0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:56.560 this was was, you know, my best chance and and 0:40:56.600 --> 0:41:02.480 you know it being only fifteen months on Beijing, I 0:41:02.520 --> 0:41:06.399 didn't want anything to jeopardize my chance of making it 0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:10.480 to that Olympics. So I went cold turkey off absolutely everything, 0:41:11.800 --> 0:41:15.360 you know, drugs, alcohol, junk food, like, you know everything. 0:41:15.360 --> 0:41:18.120 I didn't want anything to jeopardize my chants. And you 0:41:18.160 --> 0:41:22.600 know it, it was a lot of like catching trains 0:41:22.680 --> 0:41:26.120 because I couldn't afford you know, to pay car insurance. 0:41:27.239 --> 0:41:29.239 But it was also a lot of like you know, 0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:32.399 checking the tracks of the seats and of the car 0:41:32.440 --> 0:41:34.759 seats for you know, trapnell that's fallen down there, and 0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:41.239 looking under couch cushions for for train fares. But but it, 0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:44.120 you know, I was catching trains a lot. And you know, 0:41:44.239 --> 0:41:48.280 at I was living in Sydney. So at Lidcombe Station 0:41:48.560 --> 0:41:51.880 there's you know, there's the the bit that's kind of 0:41:51.920 --> 0:41:54.600 separate from the rest of the platforms that goes over 0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:59.440 to Olympic Park and there's this graffiti there that says, 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:01.879 or there was, I don't know if they've painted over 0:42:01.920 --> 0:42:04.200 it yet, but it says like you know ice age, 0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:07.880 like the movie in that that that type of font. 0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:10.200 But then it says underneath like the crackdown and then 0:42:10.200 --> 0:42:14.080 there's like a crack pipe and a syringe there, and 0:42:14.280 --> 0:42:17.959 so obviously it's a it's a reference to crack or math. 0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:20.600 And you know, it took me six months for me 0:42:20.640 --> 0:42:26.160 because I'd already suspected suspected, I already. 0:42:25.920 --> 0:42:28.760 Knew that I was an addict. At that stage. 0:42:28.760 --> 0:42:31.440 I wouldn't have used that terminology, but I already knew 0:42:31.440 --> 0:42:32.680 that I was struggling with addiction. 0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:35.880 Okay, So I just hold that point there for a 0:42:35.920 --> 0:42:38.040 sec like when you get to that point when you 0:42:38.120 --> 0:42:40.799 realize you're an addict, Like we've all had addictions to 0:42:41.080 --> 0:42:43.680 certain things, and you can delude yourself and go, I 0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:45.879 could give up that anytime I wanted to. But then 0:42:45.920 --> 0:42:49.680 you realize that you're making that excuse time and time again. 0:42:50.640 --> 0:42:53.640 You came to terms of the fact that you're, Yeah, 0:42:53.760 --> 0:42:56.000 and you hate to say it, I'm a drug addict. 0:42:56.080 --> 0:42:58.359 Yeah, I would never have said it. I would never 0:42:58.360 --> 0:43:01.040 have said it then, Yeah, that I was struggling with addiction. 0:43:01.160 --> 0:43:04.560 I had. I had been to a GP. 0:43:05.840 --> 0:43:10.040 And said, you know, like I'm struggling with you know, 0:43:10.120 --> 0:43:12.759 with with Matthews and not being and not being able 0:43:12.800 --> 0:43:17.200 to stop using crystal meth. But he didn't really provide 0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:21.120 me any solutions, and so I just kept on partying, 0:43:21.160 --> 0:43:24.880 but like knowing that I. 0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:25.880 That I was really struggling to stop. 0:43:25.920 --> 0:43:28.919 But then when I got this opportunity, that was enough 0:43:29.000 --> 0:43:31.360 of an impetus for me to be like, you know, 0:43:31.440 --> 0:43:34.359 cold turkey off everything. But it took me, I was 0:43:34.760 --> 0:43:38.080 it took me six months of like and I had 0:43:38.120 --> 0:43:40.200 to stop listening to dance music like it was all, 0:43:40.440 --> 0:43:42.799 you know, I just got into super into acoustic music, 0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:45.839 folk music, and you know, then and catching the train 0:43:45.960 --> 0:43:50.319 to Olympic Park everywhere and going past this you know, this, 0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:54.120 this graffiti it. You know, it took me six months 0:43:54.120 --> 0:43:57.759 to stop thinking about meth every single day. But I 0:43:58.120 --> 0:44:02.200 you know, but luckily I had had such a powerful 0:44:02.920 --> 0:44:05.920 goal that was pushing me in a certain direction that 0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:10.760 I managed to stay like you know, completely cold turkey, 0:44:10.800 --> 0:44:12.840 clean and sober for the you know that whole time. 0:44:13.000 --> 0:44:16.160 Well, full credit to you, because I know I've spoken 0:44:16.200 --> 0:44:19.520 to people that get that high from the meth, and 0:44:19.840 --> 0:44:22.319 it's just once I've had the taste of it, they 0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:24.680 fight it for the rest of their lives. It sounds 0:44:24.719 --> 0:44:27.680 like you break away from the lifestyle like the dance music. 0:44:28.080 --> 0:44:29.960 I'm sure you had to break away from a circle 0:44:29.960 --> 0:44:33.279 of friends and just focus on what you were doing. 0:44:33.840 --> 0:44:36.759 So what what sort of commitment we've got, you know, 0:44:36.800 --> 0:44:40.080 the Paris Olympics. What type of dedication and commitment do 0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:42.560 you have to have to get to the elite level 0:44:42.560 --> 0:44:44.799 of your sport just to get to the Olympics. We'll 0:44:44.800 --> 0:44:47.520 talk about winning the gold medal later, but just to 0:44:47.880 --> 0:44:50.520 make it to the Australian team. Is it all consuming? 0:44:50.560 --> 0:44:52.400 Do you have to just that has to be your 0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:53.200 only focus? 0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:58.760 I think to win it? It does? 0:45:00.600 --> 0:45:00.799 You know? 0:45:00.880 --> 0:45:03.399 I think maybe not necessarily, like just to make it. 0:45:03.800 --> 0:45:07.839 I think some sports are more competitive than others. And 0:45:08.000 --> 0:45:11.400 you know, and and a lot of athletes, you know, 0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:15.600 will a lot of athletes have to work, you know, 0:45:15.960 --> 0:45:18.719 whilst doing their sport or they won't be able to 0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:21.399 support themselves because you know, so many athletes don't get 0:45:21.520 --> 0:45:23.280 funding to be able to support yourself. 0:45:23.280 --> 0:45:26.680 And I didn't. I had to work luckily. 0:45:26.360 --> 0:45:29.880 I you know, there was a woman who like a 0:45:30.000 --> 0:45:32.440 dive mum basically, who had her own company and so 0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:36.200 I worked as an adminissistant for the five hours in 0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:38.520 between training sessions. So I worked five hours a day, 0:45:38.520 --> 0:45:40.040 five days a week as an admin assistant. 0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:43.279 Yeah, and that's pay through What about the physical thing. 0:45:43.320 --> 0:45:45.880 And I've got to ask, and I've always I always 0:45:45.880 --> 0:45:49.759 wanted to ask divers, is you guys and girls look 0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:54.000 like the most fifth fifthest athletes? And I'm thinking, okay, 0:45:54.160 --> 0:45:57.239 I'm only seeing them dive off. What other exercise and 0:45:57.280 --> 0:45:59.799 training do you have to do other than walking up 0:45:59.239 --> 0:46:02.359 the platforms, climbing the ladder or the stairs all the time? 0:46:02.360 --> 0:46:05.799 But why is it such like I'm looking at it 0:46:05.880 --> 0:46:10.680 and you look like extreme fit athletes in diving? It's 0:46:10.800 --> 0:46:13.720 just the nature of the sport. What is a physical 0:46:13.760 --> 0:46:16.320 training you have to achieve to get to that level? 0:46:17.120 --> 0:46:19.200 I mean, you have to be super strong to deal 0:46:19.239 --> 0:46:22.880 with the g forces that you're putting your body through, 0:46:23.160 --> 0:46:25.960 Like as you're you know, you're kind of not only 0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:30.000 falling at like sixty kilometers an hour, but you're also 0:46:30.280 --> 0:46:32.759 rotating so fast that you know, if you if you 0:46:33.600 --> 0:46:36.200 have a look at a photo of a diver kind 0:46:36.239 --> 0:46:39.520 of mid flight, you'll see like, you know, their skin 0:46:39.640 --> 0:46:44.279 kind of trailing behind their skull. You know, So you 0:46:44.320 --> 0:46:46.440 have to be strong enough to actually hold those positions, 0:46:46.960 --> 0:46:50.400 and so you know there'll be every diver will do 0:46:51.239 --> 0:46:53.880 two sessions a day, so between ten and eleven sessions 0:46:53.920 --> 0:46:57.440 a week, and it's usually all the morning sessions will 0:46:57.480 --> 0:47:01.560 be dry sessions, so in the drilling center, like you know, 0:47:01.680 --> 0:47:04.520 doing all the acrobatic stuff into foam pits or onto mats, 0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:08.800 as well as a lot of core exercises. And divers 0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:11.360 will also have you know, at least two but normally 0:47:11.440 --> 0:47:17.480 three purely strength based right sessions a week. You know, 0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:21.120 to build not only your strength but your power. So 0:47:21.320 --> 0:47:23.120 that's strength plus speed. 0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:31.120 Now, your event that you went into the Olympics had 0:47:31.160 --> 0:47:34.479 three disciplines or three levels that you were diving at, 0:47:34.800 --> 0:47:38.880 so you've got that. The ten meter platform which you 0:47:38.960 --> 0:47:40.840 won the goal. I won't give away. People know you 0:47:40.880 --> 0:47:43.200 won the goal, so we're not giving away the story. 0:47:43.960 --> 0:47:48.279 People know that. But ten meters. I've jumped off ten 0:47:48.320 --> 0:47:51.239 meters and if you don't land properly, and I won't 0:47:51.239 --> 0:47:53.000 say I dived. I'd like to say a dive, but 0:47:53.040 --> 0:47:55.320 I've never had the carriage. I always went feet first, 0:47:55.320 --> 0:47:58.640 and sometimes if you didn't land properly, you felt it. 0:47:58.680 --> 0:48:02.600 The impact that you're receiving each time with the dives. 0:48:02.960 --> 0:48:05.480 Talk us through that, because I've been fascinated by it 0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:07.440 doing it time and time again. There must have been 0:48:07.480 --> 0:48:10.400 times when you feel like oop, that didn't land properly. 0:48:10.719 --> 0:48:12.880 So it's like hitting hitting concrete. 0:48:13.640 --> 0:48:17.080 Yeah, it is, because you do you know that you 0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:19.359 do hit the water at sixty kilometers an hour from 0:48:19.480 --> 0:48:23.080 the ten meter and you know that. So you'll see 0:48:23.080 --> 0:48:26.480 that every diver has got at least their wrists strapped 0:48:27.239 --> 0:48:30.040 to try and I guess provide a bit of reinforcement 0:48:30.480 --> 0:48:33.680 because your wrists are what is taking all of that 0:48:33.840 --> 0:48:36.520 hit for that you know, that fraction of a second, 0:48:37.920 --> 0:48:41.800 and that's the goal is for only your your hands 0:48:41.840 --> 0:48:44.839 to be taking that hit. And I guess the more 0:48:45.120 --> 0:48:47.799 either either side of vertical that you go, the more 0:48:47.840 --> 0:48:49.400 of your body is taking more of the hit. And 0:48:49.440 --> 0:48:52.640 so obviously you know when you land flat, your whole 0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:54.960 body is taking all that force all at once, and 0:48:55.040 --> 0:48:58.440 so you'll get you'll get all this bruising, you know 0:48:58.600 --> 0:49:01.400 if you if you do land flat and you know 0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:02.719 it's it's happened a couple of times. 0:49:02.800 --> 0:49:03.440 It does happen. 0:49:04.520 --> 0:49:05.960 It's one of those things where you just have to 0:49:06.000 --> 0:49:09.680 get straight back up on the horse, you know, to 0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:12.880 make sure that you don't then get the ips or 0:49:12.920 --> 0:49:17.520 the twisties or you know whatever your your profession's version 0:49:17.600 --> 0:49:18.360 of that. 0:49:19.880 --> 0:49:20.680 In your mind. 0:49:21.040 --> 0:49:25.279 Yeah, yeah, what about the you're breaking the water with 0:49:25.320 --> 0:49:29.200 your hands, I'm talking to ten meter with the impact 0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:32.400 on the head, Any concussions or is there anything like that? 0:49:32.520 --> 0:49:34.840 The shop that you get from going in the water. 0:49:35.400 --> 0:49:38.680 Only if you land sort of flat on your back 0:49:38.760 --> 0:49:42.120 or your stomach right, or if you hit your head 0:49:42.480 --> 0:49:44.960 on the platform or the springboard. Yeah, which is you 0:49:45.000 --> 0:49:46.720 know it happens. 0:49:46.760 --> 0:49:49.800 Yeah, yeah, I think we've all seen it on tiktop 0:49:49.840 --> 0:49:54.480 where a diver's gone bad. Okay, you're training, you're putting 0:49:54.520 --> 0:49:57.879 in those hours hours a day, you're working. When did 0:49:57.880 --> 0:50:00.160 you find out that you made the Olympic team and 0:50:00.480 --> 0:50:02.400 talk us through that, because that must be a special 0:50:02.400 --> 0:50:04.320 moment in anyone's life, I would imagine. 0:50:04.880 --> 0:50:05.760 Yeah. 0:50:05.239 --> 0:50:09.520 I guess I probably wasn't that surprised, to be fair, 0:50:11.080 --> 0:50:15.799 just because I my progress was going really well, my 0:50:15.840 --> 0:50:20.839 diving was going really well. That the National Championships, you know, 0:50:20.880 --> 0:50:24.000 there are many there are many competitions. 0:50:23.480 --> 0:50:24.480 You have to qualify at. 0:50:24.640 --> 0:50:26.399 You know, you have to call her for the next rip, 0:50:26.840 --> 0:50:29.760 competition for the next So I guess the first stage 0:50:29.800 --> 0:50:35.920 of that was the Australian National Championships. And I I 0:50:36.040 --> 0:50:39.279 won every event one meter, three meter, three meters and 0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:42.120 crew ten meter, like you know that there was so 0:50:42.239 --> 0:50:44.799 you know, I kind of you know, and then as 0:50:44.880 --> 0:50:48.080 things progressed, like you know, it was clear to me 0:50:48.239 --> 0:50:49.960 that you know. And then I went to the World 0:50:50.600 --> 0:50:53.960 World Cup and I qualified Australia's spots for Australia to. 0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:54.800 Dive in the Olympics. 0:50:55.880 --> 0:50:58.640 And then and then I went to the Olympic trials 0:50:58.800 --> 0:51:01.920 and I qualified my spot to fill the spots that 0:51:01.960 --> 0:51:03.640 I had already qualified for Australia. 0:51:03.760 --> 0:51:07.680 So you know, like I knew that I was going. 0:51:07.880 --> 0:51:12.040 Yeah, and so when I did actually get announced on 0:51:12.080 --> 0:51:16.439 the team, it wasn't a surprise, but it was. Yeah, 0:51:16.480 --> 0:51:19.440 it was I don't remember feeling any kind of I 0:51:19.440 --> 0:51:20.640 guess it was kind of expected. 0:51:20.840 --> 0:51:25.720 But you know, then when then when the this journalist. 0:51:25.280 --> 0:51:28.520 Came out to profile me and a couple of my 0:51:28.560 --> 0:51:35.040 teammates who had also qualified, Yeah, it was just this 0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:37.400 journalist was just asking me all the you know, the 0:51:37.480 --> 0:51:40.600 usual questions, you know, how old I am, where I live, 0:51:41.040 --> 0:51:45.600 who I live with, and and because I had spent 0:51:45.640 --> 0:51:49.239 the last year I mean even even actually when I 0:51:49.239 --> 0:51:51.879 retired from diving, I made a promised to myself when 0:51:51.920 --> 0:51:54.160 I was eighteen, I made have promised myself that I 0:51:54.239 --> 0:51:57.200 was going to be one hundred percent upfront and honest 0:51:57.239 --> 0:52:00.040 with everyone I met from that point forwards, because it 0:52:00.120 --> 0:52:02.239 was you know, it was just a. 0:52:02.160 --> 0:52:06.320 Horrible live a lie or the deception. 0:52:06.680 --> 0:52:11.080 Exactly, and and you know, and my coach had created 0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:14.560 such a wonderfully inclusive environment that I had just gotten 0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:19.000 so used to just to being you know, myself, my 0:52:19.000 --> 0:52:21.480 authentic self, and so you know, I just I just 0:52:21.480 --> 0:52:24.600 say I live with my boyfriend. And this journalist was 0:52:24.680 --> 0:52:28.600 so excited by that. You know, she thought it was 0:52:28.600 --> 0:52:32.000 absolutely wonderful, and she thought that you know that Australia 0:52:32.040 --> 0:52:34.400 would really sort of you know, get behind me. But 0:52:34.480 --> 0:52:36.040 she did actually give me the option of whether I 0:52:36.080 --> 0:52:39.960 wanted that to go into the story, because yeah, I guess, well. 0:52:39.800 --> 0:52:42.759 That was decent of her, because it's you know, it 0:52:42.800 --> 0:52:45.439 wasn't the intent of I'm sure she didn't sit down 0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:47.640 going out. I'm going to get this as a scoop, 0:52:47.680 --> 0:52:51.239 but it's nice that she asks you. There's things that 0:52:51.280 --> 0:52:54.400 you've been quoted about saying about that that when you 0:52:54.760 --> 0:52:57.719 did come out, and one of the things, and I 0:52:57.760 --> 0:52:59.560 think you've just touched on it, but I just read 0:52:59.600 --> 0:53:01.840 this quite there. I was so scared of it that 0:53:01.880 --> 0:53:05.080 it would actually tie a rubber band. We've talked about that, 0:53:05.280 --> 0:53:08.000 so this is the fear that you've had in childhood. 0:53:08.600 --> 0:53:11.600 And then when you did come out, I was scared 0:53:11.600 --> 0:53:14.160 about the response. But going into the Olympics, I didn't 0:53:14.160 --> 0:53:16.399 want the Australian public to think of me one way 0:53:16.440 --> 0:53:18.920 as straight and then have to come out afterwards feeling 0:53:18.960 --> 0:53:21.680 like I lied to them. So I can understand that, 0:53:21.800 --> 0:53:25.680 because with the Olympics comes the focus, the attention, and 0:53:25.840 --> 0:53:29.520 you've gone in there and you'd feel I won't say hypocrite, 0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:32.400 because it's personal and people can talk about their private 0:53:32.440 --> 0:53:34.839 life if they want or don't want. But I can 0:53:34.960 --> 0:53:37.399 understand where you felt like it was a weight off 0:53:37.440 --> 0:53:40.120 your shoulders by actually coming out and saying, hey, this 0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:42.400 is who I am. Accept me or don't accept me. 0:53:43.239 --> 0:53:45.480 Did it it feel like it was liberating for you? 0:53:45.560 --> 0:53:50.120 I mean, everybody who was around me you But you know, 0:53:50.400 --> 0:53:53.399 I guess I you know, I think I just won 0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:57.239 the last international event before the Olympic Games, so I 0:53:57.320 --> 0:53:59.880 knew that I was doing quite well and that there 0:53:59.880 --> 0:54:02.520 were a chance that I could do quite well in 0:54:02.560 --> 0:54:05.560 the Olympics, and so I kind of wanted to save 0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:10.000 myself a very very awkward like you know, oh by 0:54:10.040 --> 0:54:14.919 the way, you know, because and you know, the other 0:54:14.960 --> 0:54:20.360 thing was there was nothing that could happen to me 0:54:21.600 --> 0:54:23.480 that I felt like, you know, you know when you 0:54:23.480 --> 0:54:25.960 you know you're scared of something because you do the 0:54:26.000 --> 0:54:31.239 worst case scenario all the time, and queer people do it. 0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:35.440 You know, it's it's basically it's quite it's a universal experience, 0:54:36.400 --> 0:54:38.560 you know, before coming out. It's you know, the worst 0:54:38.560 --> 0:54:40.440 case scenario thing, and that I think that stops people 0:54:40.480 --> 0:54:43.480 coming out a lot of the time. But there was 0:54:43.880 --> 0:54:48.600 nothing that could happen to me that would be worse 0:54:48.880 --> 0:54:52.920 than going back into the closet for me, And so, 0:54:53.520 --> 0:54:55.759 you know, I feel like that's that's kind of a 0:54:55.840 --> 0:54:59.759 really good that that's a testament to kind of what 0:55:00.880 --> 0:55:03.360 how I guess soul destroying it is to to actually, 0:55:03.760 --> 0:55:05.760 you know, to not be able to be your authentic 0:55:05.800 --> 0:55:07.480 self and to be in the closet. Is you know 0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:09.880 that literally nothing in the world could happen to me 0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:12.600 that would be worse than that. And so you know, 0:55:12.640 --> 0:55:16.000 and you know, all of those fears that I had. 0:55:17.480 --> 0:55:19.960 I didn't care if nobody supported me, you know, it 0:55:20.000 --> 0:55:22.600 was it was still more important for me to you know, 0:55:22.760 --> 0:55:26.400 to just to come out to the world before the Olympics, 0:55:26.440 --> 0:55:29.560 and you know, and none of those fears came to pass. 0:55:29.640 --> 0:55:31.520 Like my coming out to the world was front page 0:55:31.560 --> 0:55:35.680 news of the biggest newspaper in Australia and I loved 0:55:35.680 --> 0:55:40.320 abs so extra it's you know, it felt kind of 0:55:40.360 --> 0:55:43.960 appropriate actually, but you know, none of those fears came 0:55:44.000 --> 0:55:46.760 to pass. It was ninety nine point nine nine percent 0:55:46.880 --> 0:55:50.640 overwhelmingly positive and supportive from you know, from the public, 0:55:50.680 --> 0:55:53.120 from the media, from everyone in sport. Like it was 0:55:53.320 --> 0:55:57.759 just it was such an incredibly wonderful positive experience. 0:55:57.920 --> 0:56:00.840 Isn't that great? And it's all my pluck and irony. 0:56:00.840 --> 0:56:02.439 I don't now if I any he's the right word 0:56:02.480 --> 0:56:04.160 for it, but the fact that this is something you 0:56:04.280 --> 0:56:07.439 feared for so long and then you've done it and 0:56:08.200 --> 0:56:11.080 it's all positive. It's I think we hold a lot 0:56:11.120 --> 0:56:13.960 of a lot of concerns that perhaps if we were 0:56:14.000 --> 0:56:16.680 just open about it, that might might be as bad 0:56:16.719 --> 0:56:17.920 as the perception of it. 0:56:18.760 --> 0:56:22.960 Yes, and no, I think you know, historically I had 0:56:23.040 --> 0:56:25.600 there was a lot of fear because I had no one, 0:56:26.080 --> 0:56:28.880 There was no precedent for me, you know that any 0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:32.160 other gay sporting people I knew were kind of Greg 0:56:32.200 --> 0:56:34.600 Lar Gainus in eighty eight, and you know, but he 0:56:34.719 --> 0:56:36.320 wasn't out when he dived. 0:56:36.480 --> 0:56:37.560 You know, he didn't come out. 0:56:37.480 --> 0:56:41.920 Until afterwards, so you know, that almost doesn't really count. 0:56:42.560 --> 0:56:45.120 And also there was a lot of controversy around, you know, 0:56:45.160 --> 0:56:46.960 when he did come out, because he also had to 0:56:46.960 --> 0:56:48.480 come out about his HIV status. 0:56:49.520 --> 0:56:55.160 There was Ian Roberts in the nineties who you know, 0:56:55.600 --> 0:56:56.800 didn't didn't have the best. 0:56:56.680 --> 0:56:59.440 Time, Like it wasn't it wasn't a super positive experience, 0:56:59.520 --> 0:57:03.560 you know, how he was treated. And justin fashion U 0:57:03.680 --> 0:57:07.960 the English footballer in the nineties who you know, the 0:57:08.000 --> 0:57:10.560 first black player to get a million pound transfer fee, 0:57:10.920 --> 0:57:14.200 but he came out and was just bullied mercilessly and 0:57:14.320 --> 0:57:16.680 ultimately ended up taking his life. And you know, so 0:57:16.720 --> 0:57:19.520 I didn't have any good positive role models to show 0:57:19.560 --> 0:57:22.160 me that it would be okay. So you know, in 0:57:22.200 --> 0:57:25.200 some ways, like it's you know, you can kind of 0:57:25.240 --> 0:57:25.960 be like, you. 0:57:26.000 --> 0:57:29.600 Know, isn't it funny that you know you fear the worst? 0:57:29.640 --> 0:57:32.600 But I didn't have any evidence to kind of to 0:57:32.960 --> 0:57:36.120 contradict that, and you know, and you think, okay, well, 0:57:36.160 --> 0:57:42.120 society's progressing, that's wonderful. But just this year the Olympics 0:57:42.160 --> 0:57:48.760 Instagram posted an Australian rock climber who qualified for the 0:57:48.800 --> 0:57:52.360 Paris Games and they posted about him him kissing his 0:57:52.640 --> 0:57:58.880 partner and his male partner, And the amount of hate 0:57:59.360 --> 0:58:04.640 that that post has generated is just like more hate 0:58:04.720 --> 0:58:07.000 than I got in my entire career, just in that 0:58:07.040 --> 0:58:07.720 one post. 0:58:08.760 --> 0:58:10.360 So you know, you. 0:58:10.360 --> 0:58:12.520 Feel like society is progressing, but actually I feel like 0:58:12.560 --> 0:58:14.120 at the moment, if for the last couple of years, 0:58:14.120 --> 0:58:17.360 there's been a bit of a swing backwards, like in 0:58:17.600 --> 0:58:20.080 more conservative values, a bit of a like an anti 0:58:20.120 --> 0:58:26.280 woke kind of sentiment where it's people are really really 0:58:26.320 --> 0:58:30.760 pushing back in quite a quite a horrible way. 0:58:31.120 --> 0:58:35.320 That shocks me. I didn't realize and I wouldn't have 0:58:35.360 --> 0:58:37.760 anticipated that. I thought it would have just been a 0:58:37.760 --> 0:58:40.480 blase a thing and it's accepted. But when you talk 0:58:40.520 --> 0:58:44.040 about woke, I know, when extreme views at one side, 0:58:44.280 --> 0:58:47.600 then the other views become just as extreme and they 0:58:47.720 --> 0:58:51.680 keep they play off each other. So maybe that's part 0:58:51.680 --> 0:58:54.720 of it. But you make a valid point and also 0:58:55.000 --> 0:58:59.400 the sportsman that you did mention. I can understand then 0:58:59.720 --> 0:59:02.760 what you're saying that, Okay, it did work out well, 0:59:02.760 --> 0:59:04.680 but it could have gone either way for you when 0:59:04.920 --> 0:59:09.200 you came out. Yeah, and perhaps even costs your sponsorships 0:59:09.520 --> 0:59:09.920 or whatever. 0:59:10.120 --> 0:59:14.520 I suppose God exactly, that's absolutely a fear. And you 0:59:14.520 --> 0:59:16.560 know that was a fear at the time. Well actually, 0:59:16.640 --> 0:59:18.400 you know that was It was certainly a thought that 0:59:18.440 --> 0:59:20.040 I'd had at the time, but it was something that 0:59:20.080 --> 0:59:22.000 I ended up saying, you know what, that's just not 0:59:22.360 --> 0:59:28.760 that important. But you know, this, this this boy, Campbell Harrison, 0:59:28.880 --> 0:59:33.040 he's he's he's quite affected by you know, he puts 0:59:33.080 --> 0:59:35.080 on a very brief face, but you know I've been 0:59:35.120 --> 0:59:38.000 talking to him privately, you know, because I've reached out 0:59:38.080 --> 0:59:40.360 and have been supporting him, and you know, he's quite 0:59:40.600 --> 0:59:43.200 he's quite affected by it, you know, which is such 0:59:43.240 --> 0:59:45.720 a shame. We were about to go into your first Olympics. 0:59:45.720 --> 0:59:48.400 He didn't, you know, it was just it was something 0:59:48.440 --> 0:59:51.920 that you know, the Olympics posted that's gotten you know, 0:59:52.000 --> 0:59:55.640 all of this this huge just this hatred and you know, 0:59:55.960 --> 1:00:00.560 it would take a very very strong person to not 1:00:00.760 --> 1:00:04.240 take it personally at all, which you know it's not 1:00:04.280 --> 1:00:07.320 about him at all, obviously, but you know it would 1:00:07.360 --> 1:00:10.560 take a very strong person to not internalize any of it. 1:00:11.160 --> 1:00:14.480 Most definitely, And you're quite right and identifying as a shame, 1:00:14.560 --> 1:00:16.960 like he's going to something that should be highlighted to 1:00:17.000 --> 1:00:20.360 get negative feedback from that over something that, Yeah, I 1:00:20.400 --> 1:00:23.840 really thought we had passed that point. We might take 1:00:23.880 --> 1:00:26.600 a break now for part one, and then we're going 1:00:26.640 --> 1:00:30.560 to get into the excitement of going to the Olympic Village. 1:00:30.640 --> 1:00:36.080 And I got to experience the Olympic Village during Sydney Olympics, 1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:39.720 and not as an athlete, sadly, but a close personal 1:00:39.760 --> 1:00:43.480 protection looking after dignitaries going into the Olympics at the 1:00:43.520 --> 1:00:46.720 Sydney Olympics. And I got to say, I've been to 1:00:46.760 --> 1:00:48.800 a lot of places in my time, but going into 1:00:48.880 --> 1:00:52.280 the Olympic Village just had a buzz of excitement about it, 1:00:52.960 --> 1:00:55.680 and I'd love to hear from someone that actually experienced 1:00:55.680 --> 1:00:58.600 it as an athlete and the excitement of going in 1:00:58.640 --> 1:01:01.760 there and competing against the of the best. So we'll 1:01:01.800 --> 1:01:03.440 take a short break and when we come back to 1:01:03.480 --> 1:01:06.200 part two, we'll go into that and talk about more 1:01:06.240 --> 1:01:09.080 of your highs and lows and everything else has happened 1:01:09.080 --> 1:01:11.919 in Matt's life, so we'll have you back soon. 1:01:12.280 --> 1:01:14.080 That's good. Cheers,