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Speaker 1: Apolgie Production, Welcome to She Rises, Pretty Friday.

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Speaker 2: Go Secrets, Horror, Scandal.

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Speaker 1: Hysterios, Wild Stephanie and Tatiana Spicy Spicy there in the building.

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Speaker 1: We've got a very creepy story today, so let's get

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Speaker 1: straight into it.

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Speaker 3: Tatiana, take it away absolutely.

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Speaker 2: When I was nineteen, I went through a party stage,

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Speaker 2: if you could call it that. It lasted a short

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Speaker 2: six weeks, but in that time I met and started

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Speaker 2: dating a man who I would go on to marry

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Speaker 2: and have two beautiful boys with. I got quite a

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Speaker 2: bit of male attention at this time, as you do

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Speaker 2: when you're a young girl out at the clubs around

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Speaker 2: intoxicated men. One in particular, let's call him See, started

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Speaker 2: texting me and we spoke every day. See seemed to

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Speaker 2: be doing it really tough, and as a very empathetic person,

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Speaker 2: I felt really bad because he had opened up to me,

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Speaker 2: and I felt like it was my responsibility to support him.

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Speaker 3: He had told me of his struggles.

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Speaker 2: He had become a father as a sixteen year old,

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Speaker 2: and the mother hadn't fortunately passed away in a car accident.

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Speaker 2: He was a single, twenty year old dad struggling to

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Speaker 2: make ends meet and cope with the obvious mental toll

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Speaker 2: that it would take. At the time, I was also

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Speaker 2: in the early stages of dating my husband. When See

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Speaker 2: found out I was seeing somebody, it was the beginning

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Speaker 2: of the most traumatic experiences of my life. See became

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Speaker 2: a full blown stalker. He would park outside of my

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Speaker 2: house and sit for hours on end, and one day

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Speaker 2: he popped up when I was going inside my house,

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Speaker 2: trying to keep me from going inside that my arm

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Speaker 2: got stuck in the door. Oh my gosh, I wish

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Speaker 2: I could attach a picture of my arm. It was

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Speaker 2: purple from my shoulder to my elbow. One day, I

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Speaker 2: arrived home to my beautiful sweet dogs who I had

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Speaker 2: never seen, angry, absolutely losing it at our back door, barking,

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Speaker 2: teeth showing, and then I saw him, happy as big smile,

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Speaker 2: waving to me from one of the windows in my backyard.

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Speaker 3: What the actual fuck?

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Speaker 2: Police came, but he was gone At this time. I

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Speaker 2: tried to put an AVA on him, but See didn't exist.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know this person.

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Speaker 3: Who was he?

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Speaker 2: Fast forward, he was turning up everywhere I went. I'm

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Speaker 2: talking the train that I would catch as a one

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Speaker 2: off to Uni dinners with my friends. I honestly don't

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Speaker 2: know how they could tell, but it came out that

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Speaker 2: he had hacked into my phone and had access to everything.

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Speaker 3: What the fuck? Oh my gosh, hell.

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Speaker 2: I was so scared all of the time, living at

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Speaker 2: home with my mom and my sister at the time,

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to leave the house or stay home alone.

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Speaker 2: Suddenly he seemed to vanish for almost eighteen months later,

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Speaker 2: I didn't see or hear from him until I got

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Speaker 2: summoned to court. Turns out Sea was a serial creep.

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Speaker 2: He would become obsessive over people and was on trial

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Speaker 2: after he was oh after he was charged with raping

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Speaker 2: a fourteen year old girl.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 2: It was a strange sitting in the courtroom and seeing

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Speaker 2: other victims, all pale skin, all dark hair, all brown eyes.

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Speaker 2: Turned out Sea was not who he said he was

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Speaker 2: at all. He was not twenty but twenty nine, and

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Speaker 2: he didn't have any children, and he actually grew up

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Speaker 2: in what sounded to be a very stable, loving home.

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Speaker 2: C ended up in jail for multiple things. He went

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Speaker 2: to jail for six years ago, and I just got

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Speaker 2: informed that he was due to be released. My mum

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Speaker 2: was ready to Downside, So my husband and I bought

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Speaker 2: it my childhood home. I love everything about living here.

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Speaker 2: I've renovated and added our own little quirks, and my

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Speaker 2: boys come home here, and I hope to bring more

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Speaker 2: babies here in the future. But something about him knowing

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Speaker 2: where to find me, especially now that I have kids,

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Speaker 2: is leaving me very unshore. No part of me wants

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Speaker 2: to leave this house. But are we even in a

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Speaker 2: financial position to move financially or do you think I

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Speaker 2: have a choice.

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Speaker 1: I don't even whind back to the start too. How

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Speaker 1: did she get her number? Because she said she was

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Speaker 1: in a club getting attention from me. Did she give

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Speaker 1: her number to him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no details on one particular. Yes, so

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Speaker 2: obviously she was saying that she got attention.

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Speaker 3: You know, but she was dating her husband.

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Speaker 2: She got attention, and she was yeah, gave the them out. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's the funny first first red flag, honey, don't give.

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Speaker 3: Your number out for dating someone.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: But regardless of all of that, holy shit, that story

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Speaker 1: did not go where I thought it was going to be.

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Speaker 2: No, not at all, Like I felt so shocked reading that.

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Speaker 1: So he used this whole story of my girlfriend died

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Speaker 1: in a car accident. I've got a child. I'm a

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Speaker 1: single dad like this poor me victim. Wow, to make

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Speaker 1: you feel sorry for him, to pull on your heart string, yeah,

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Speaker 1: to make you support him and be there with him

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Speaker 1: and help him through and.

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Speaker 3: None of it was true. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Even to show up at your house or to random

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Speaker 2: places that you were that I just find.

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Speaker 3: That's the waving in the yard, that's creepy. Oh with

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Speaker 3: the big smile.

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Speaker 2: And it is not a chance, said a girl. I'd

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Speaker 2: be you absolutely have a choice. I'd been moving mountains, yeah,

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Speaker 2: to make sure that I felt safe, secure, and probably

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Speaker 2: live in an apartment.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I could stay in that house. There's

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Speaker 3: no way.

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Speaker 1: I'll be doing everything I can to try to plan

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Speaker 1: to move out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And what do you mean he's getting out of jail.

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Speaker 1: That's just insanity in my head that he's raped a

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Speaker 1: fourteen year old girl and he has to come out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I wonder how many years he's been in there,

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Speaker 1: but surely minimum five if not done, Like the whole

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Speaker 1: girl's life is ruined, that's discussed, that stays with over

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Speaker 1: the rest of her life, and he gets to get

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Speaker 1: out and be free. No, no, thank you, no, thank you,

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Speaker 1: A are out. I think stalking is definitely more common

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Speaker 1: than what people think. Hey, I remember when I worked

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Speaker 1: at a supermarkel when I was younger. I had a couple

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Speaker 1: of stalkers. Yeah, it was wild. I had this like

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Speaker 1: one guy and he it was quite attractive. He was

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Speaker 1: like a car salesman. He must have been late thirties,

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Speaker 1: early forties, and he just started to come through my

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Speaker 1: checkout all the time. I was probably sixteen or seventeen

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Speaker 1: at this time, and he'd come through my check out

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Speaker 1: all the time. Then he started leaving me little gifts

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Speaker 1: and little love notes, and then he'd started to wait

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Speaker 1: for me to finish my shift outside. Oh no, But

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Speaker 1: at the time, like my mum was always working and

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Speaker 1: my stepdad never gave me a lyft, so I'd walk

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Speaker 1: to and from work. Yeah, and before I felt he

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Speaker 1: was a bit creepy. I got a couple of lifts

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Speaker 1: off him home because it was like dark, or I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to walk home because it was quite a

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Speaker 1: big walk and it was hot. But then my boss

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Speaker 1: picked up on what was happening and obviously could see

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Speaker 1: he was a lot older and he was waiting outside for.

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Speaker 3: Me to come Awa.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and my boss called the police and said, I

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Speaker 1: think we have a stalker for one of our young

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Speaker 1: girls that works here.

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Speaker 3: And the police came and took him away. Wow I

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Speaker 3: saw him again. Wow. Yeah, oh that could have ended

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Speaker 3: so badly. No, right, couple got in a car like

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Speaker 3: how dumb with me?

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Speaker 2: Wow? But obviously you didn't like just being young and

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Speaker 2: not knowing and I know, you know, obviously not getting

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Speaker 2: any weird vibes straight away.

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Speaker 3: No, he was nice to me. Yeah, I didn't really

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Speaker 3: get a lot of male attention.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he seemed nice and lovely and romudel i'd had

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Speaker 1: at home. Was not a nice man, yeah, not lovely Yeah, abusive, yelling,

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Speaker 1: like physical, just awful.

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Speaker 3: So he was nice.

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Speaker 1: I was like, what's the problem. Yeah, I'd get a

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Speaker 1: lift home in your nice car, silly, young ashy Yes, grateful.

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Speaker 1: Nothing happened, of course, Yeah, I could have got so

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Speaker 1: much more intense and worse. He gotta be so careful.

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Speaker 1: So she has a female. But I'm so glad you're okay, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and I'm so glad nothing worse happened.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe he had a type too like that

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Speaker 1: In itself like brown hair, white skin, and brown eye.

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Speaker 3: That's terrifying.

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Speaker 2: But even the fact that he was already in jail

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Speaker 2: for something much significantly worse. You're very fortunate to have

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Speaker 2: had it end the way that it did.

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Speaker 3: It could have been so much worse.

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Speaker 2: The fact that that's it, Like, honestly though, to prevent

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Speaker 2: yourself from putting yourself in a place where you become

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Speaker 2: potentially a victim or put yourself in a worse position.

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Speaker 2: And also you have children now too, so it's not

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Speaker 2: just you you're thinking of like little ones now. It's

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Speaker 2: just not worth it. I think, like playing with your

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Speaker 2: safety like that is just never worth it if you can.

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Speaker 2: And obviously I get the financial thing, it's obviously a

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Speaker 2: stretch and may put you out on all of the things,

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Speaker 2: But I just don't think that you can put anything

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Speaker 2: above your safety, nor especially when it comes to somebody

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Speaker 2: who is showing you that they're not all there, you know,

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Speaker 2: or that there's something internally that is wrong or off

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Speaker 2: or like just not right, you just don't want to

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Speaker 2: mess with that.

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Speaker 1: And just because they go to jail, it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: they've learned the lessons. Yeah, that's why all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden cured and healed and done this work on themselves.

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Speaker 1: That's where I think jail. Not that I'm an expert

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Speaker 1: by any means, this is my own unqualified opinion. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like that's where they're doing jail wrong.

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Speaker 1: Is I think jail should be. Yes, there is a

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Speaker 1: time that they're kind of locked up and away from society,

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Speaker 1: especially if they're a danger to society.

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Speaker 3: But this is where they should.

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Speaker 1: Be learning and getting therapy in books and given it

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Speaker 1: an option. You need to have a second chance to

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Speaker 1: take responsibility, to see the impact, to understand the impact,

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Speaker 1: to learn about human psychology.

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Speaker 3: I just think it's therapy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a wasted opportunity just to lock them

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Speaker 1: up and expect them to change.

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Speaker 3: If anything, it makes them more angry. Yes, that's so true.

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Speaker 1: When they're come out and go on a rampage and

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Speaker 1: you're like, whoever the judge is, it gives them five years.

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Speaker 1: Like I couldn't sleep at night knowing I've given a

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Speaker 1: rapist five years jail and then he's out and he

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Speaker 1: does it again the day he's out. Yeah, Like that's

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Speaker 1: on you now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And that's the reality. Like most people don't change,

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Speaker 2: or people are continuously once they've gone into jail, then

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Speaker 2: they don't know how to operate in society.

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Speaker 3: Then they just go back to.

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Speaker 2: Those environments, you know, familarity for them, They put themselves

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Speaker 2: back in there because they don't change, they don't grow,

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Speaker 2: they don't learn anything. You know, they might have been

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Speaker 2: in there for twelve years, but are they still the

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Speaker 2: same person? Absolutely, And it's not for everyone.

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Speaker 1: No imagining you're part of that jury. I don't have

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Speaker 1: the answers. But if they're not doing anything to help

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Speaker 1: change those patterns, behaviors and the way they are in

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Speaker 1: the society, I just don't think they should be let

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Speaker 1: out in society or they should be watched.

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Speaker 2: But I think that there should be a much more

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Speaker 2: heinous consequence, yes, for.

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Speaker 1: That, because that person that's been affected, that fucks their

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Speaker 1: whole life. Yeah, I was saying, they can't live a

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Speaker 1: beautiful life, but it stays with them.

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Speaker 3: It's not the point.

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Speaker 2: It's the fact that someone's livelihood and autonomy has been

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Speaker 2: taken away from out of the hands of somebody else

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Speaker 2: who was frivolous and like took into no consideration how

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Speaker 2: they would impact them. Because something psychologically is not right

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Speaker 2: with them. I honestly think if there were harsher conditions

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Speaker 2: for things like rape, it wouldn't happen as much. And

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Speaker 2: it's really fucked up how common it actually is and

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Speaker 2: how many women are sexual abuse survivors and things like that.

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Speaker 3: What would the consequence be if you're in charge? What

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Speaker 3: would it be if I were in charge? Well, that's

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Speaker 3: a good question.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I've seen over in like Dubai and stuff,

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Speaker 2: they have really really strict laws, and I think in

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Speaker 2: America they've just brought back the death penalty, and I

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Speaker 2: don't know, Like obviously, I think that because there aren't

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Speaker 2: bigger consequences, people feel like they can get away with it,

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Speaker 2: Whereas like in Dubai it's apparently like the safest place

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Speaker 2: in the world.

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Speaker 3: Heard that.

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Speaker 2: Because they have really strict rules, people know that they

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Speaker 2: have to follow the laws otherwise they'll get kicked out,

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Speaker 2: they'll go to jail straight away.

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Speaker 3: Get killed. I'm not sure. I don't know how it works.

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Speaker 2: Because the consequences are high, people aren't willing to play

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Speaker 2: with it. Y you know, it's like how many people

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Speaker 2: go through experiences like that and go through sexual abuse

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Speaker 2: or a rapist or whatever. They don't even get in trouble.

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Speaker 2: They get slap on the fucking wrist like pedophiles. Disgusting conversations.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I could rant on about this for

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Speaker 2: oh it makes me sick. Sick, it's not okay. There

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Speaker 2: is not strong enough consequences and punishments and pedophiles. But

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Speaker 2: even stuff like this, you know how many times do

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Speaker 2: you hear of, especially on the Gold Coast, which is

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Speaker 2: why there are laws against domestic violence. If it's not

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Speaker 2: bad enough, they don't take it seriously enough, like even

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Speaker 2: like stalking and things like that. They're like, oh, there's

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Speaker 2: not really much I can.

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Speaker 3: Do do if something happens. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I remember when my stepdad was threatening to kill me

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Speaker 1: and mum and we went to the police and they

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Speaker 1: basically said, oh, there's not much we can do because

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Speaker 1: a fourteen year old boy could have stolen his phone.

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Speaker 3: There's no actual proof. When he does something, then come

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Speaker 3: and see us when something.

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Speaker 1: So when he kills us, no worries, We'll just raise

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Speaker 1: from the grave and like, what do you bear?

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Speaker 3: No worries when he does? No worries.

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Speaker 2: I get my bestie to text you guys.

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Speaker 1: Literally I remember just being absolutely gobsmacked at that. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if things have changed since then, but I

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Speaker 1: remember just having that conversation with my mom just being like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, we you feel so unprotected. And my

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Speaker 1: mom literally had to move away and change her name

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Speaker 1: and move to a town that he didn't know where

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Speaker 1: she was at my brothers and my mom moved away.

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Speaker 1: She literally has a different last name now, my god, Oh,

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Speaker 1: he couldn't find HER's. And I only stayed on the

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Speaker 1: Gold Coast because I had Steve here. Yeah, so I

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Speaker 1: always felt really safe.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. God, there's so many stories of him that I

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Speaker 3: would love to tell one day. I shouldn't.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, please, I would love to. I would

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Speaker 2: love you to bring that in if you felt safe.

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Speaker 1: And I, yeah, I'm an open book. But yeah, thank

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Speaker 1: god I had Steve. Otherwise I would have had to

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Speaker 1: go as well, because he was literally threatening like don't

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Speaker 1: go to sleep at night because he's going to be

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Speaker 1: on fire.

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Speaker 3: Wow, like text messages and the police did nothing. That

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Speaker 3: was a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, move Absolutely, you absolutely have choice, and you always

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Speaker 2: have choice. Please remember that, yes.

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Speaker 3: For you and your babies. He's got this. Bye, guys,

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Speaker 3: I no