1
00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,840
Speaker 1: Oh, Tiffany and Cook, David, Brian Kevin, Patrick Gillespie, Craig

2
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,080
Speaker 1: Anthew Harper. It's the project, that's you, it's us. What

3
00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:09,959
Speaker 1: have you been up to today? Cook? Have you been

4
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,680
Speaker 1: talking to people? Have you been therapizing yourself or anyone else?

5
00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:14,920
Speaker 1: Have you been punching shit?

6
00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:17,200
Speaker 2: I have been.

7
00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,759
Speaker 3: I've trained a couple of clients, made them punch them shit.

8
00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,280
Speaker 3: I have had a bit of a chat to people.

9
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,920
Speaker 3: I've had a bit of therapy myself. That's always a joy.

10
00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 3: I've lifted heavy things and here I am. And I

11
00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:31,480
Speaker 3: even had a nap today.

12
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,120
Speaker 1: What a great little nana nap. How's doctor Bill going?

13
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,720
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you making any progress? Are you still

14
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:43,600
Speaker 1: like whereabouts on the operational functional scale? Are you like

15
00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,000
Speaker 1: your ten being like no issues, one being all the issues?

16
00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,240
Speaker 1: What number are you probably?

17
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,720
Speaker 3: I've rocket it up to a good three and a

18
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,040
Speaker 3: three point five? I reckon, So I'm doing it.

19
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 1: You're approaching, You're you're driving into Normalsville. You're just sitting

20
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,480
Speaker 1: on the almost normal highway, just cruising into town.

21
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:03,240
Speaker 3: Close.

22
00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:04,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

23
00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,679
Speaker 1: Well, it's good things psychologies or bullshit, isn't it David?

24
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:10,280
Speaker 2: It is, yes, it is a good thing.

25
00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, expensive bullshit but now nonetheless bullshit.

26
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 1: Spoken authorized by David Gillespie. Now you wrote something, well, firstly,

27
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,880
Speaker 1: how are you before I talk about the funny thing?

28
00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,520
Speaker 1: Any news on planet you anything you need to tell

29
00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:33,600
Speaker 1: any like, any breaking news on planet.

30
00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so.

31
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 1: There's no sound effects coming forward.

32
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:41,200
Speaker 2: Sound effects.

33
00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,319
Speaker 1: We're saving up for a new bit of what do

34
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,000
Speaker 1: you call this stuff? Foam on the edge of my filter? Yeah, yeah,

35
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,320
Speaker 1: we're saving up for one of those. I think Melissa

36
00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,919
Speaker 1: has to sell a kidney, but I'll get one anytime, anytime.

37
00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,640
Speaker 1: So you wrote a funny article which I started reading

38
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:05,720
Speaker 1: and I did. I wasn't really expecting for it to

39
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:11,000
Speaker 1: be a tongue in cheek kind of affair with you

40
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:17,360
Speaker 1: talking about the the impending inclusion of ozen pic or

41
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,960
Speaker 1: the like in the drinking water. Was it meant to

42
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:21,240
Speaker 1: be Australia or America that?

43
00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:26,040
Speaker 4: But but the piece was, Yeah, the piece was was America.

44
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,240
Speaker 4: But I was, I guess kind of trying to make

45
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,880
Speaker 4: a point about mass medication. Is you read that piece

46
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,960
Speaker 4: and you see the way the politicians sell it. You know,

47
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,400
Speaker 4: we put a zen pick into the drinking spy will

48
00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:46,680
Speaker 4: solve the obesity crisis. We'll solve the affordability crisis because.

49
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,320
Speaker 2: You won't be able to afford to buy EU. You

50
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:49,160
Speaker 2: won't buy.

51
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,160
Speaker 4: As much food, so it will cost you less. And

52
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,880
Speaker 4: we'll even you know, solve the airline seat crisis. You know,

53
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,520
Speaker 4: you'll everyone will be able to fit into their airline seats.

54
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,240
Speaker 4: Everyone basically flying first clas So all good all around.

55
00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,799
Speaker 4: What's the downside? You have to buy a bit of

56
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,240
Speaker 4: a zimpic and put it into the drinking supply, and

57
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,880
Speaker 4: I guess lose the will to live because it does

58
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,800
Speaker 4: have an an hedonic effect on people. But the point

59
00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,960
Speaker 4: I guess I was trying to make is often that's

60
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 4: how mass medication appeals. You could make exactly the same

61
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:29,760
Speaker 4: arguments for fluoridation. There's a hard way to fix the

62
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,520
Speaker 4: fact that we're wrecking everybody's teeth, which is we have

63
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 4: to stop them consuming vast amounts of sugar. The only

64
00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,800
Speaker 4: thing that destroys teeth is sugar. We know that that's

65
00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,160
Speaker 4: not controversial science, And instead of doing something about that,

66
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 4: our solution is to put a chemical in the water

67
00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,120
Speaker 4: supply that does a little bit about it but doesn't

68
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,040
Speaker 4: fix the problem. And may have its own problems itself.

69
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 4: And that's kind of what I was getting at with

70
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,840
Speaker 4: this article. And this isn't the first time that really

71
00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,960
Speaker 4: odd things have been seriously suggested as being added to

72
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,720
Speaker 4: the water supply. There was a serious attempt to add

73
00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:09,880
Speaker 4: statins into the water supply in Japan, the thinking being yeah,

74
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:15,160
Speaker 4: the thinking being, well, you know, let's prevent everybody's heart attack,

75
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 4: you know, put.

76
00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,000
Speaker 2: It into the water supply.

77
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:22,120
Speaker 4: And this is the way the thinking goes, is what's

78
00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,840
Speaker 4: the harm? And we've talked about a few things where

79
00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,640
Speaker 4: there've been mass medication.

80
00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,680
Speaker 2: For very very good reasons, you know, you know.

81
00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,159
Speaker 4: Such as preventing birth defects and so on, but without

82
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,920
Speaker 4: any real regard to the potential side effects of it,

83
00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,040
Speaker 4: and without any real regard to is this really a

84
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,839
Speaker 4: good idea to give this to everybody in the population.

85
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,240
Speaker 2: And because we're in.

86
00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,880
Speaker 4: A situation where that is the mindset for our public

87
00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,920
Speaker 4: health people, which is the first thing they reach for,

88
00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,200
Speaker 4: is the equivalent of fluoridation of the water supply. Me

89
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,520
Speaker 4: writing a piece something putting a zepic in the water

90
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,320
Speaker 4: supply to some people will sound like a suggestion.

91
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Well, when I was reading that. I mean,

92
00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,880
Speaker 1: it's so ludicrous and ridiculous. It actually confused me because

93
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,160
Speaker 1: I never expected you and maybe you've done it. Well,

94
00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've done it before, but I hadn't read it.

95
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,159
Speaker 1: I didn't. I never expected you to write satire. I

96
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 1: never expected and I'm reading it and I'm like, it's

97
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,920
Speaker 1: really well written, and it's written as though it's real.

98
00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 1: So there was this kind of this inner conflict and

99
00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:39,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, this cannot be possibly, like sure, like I

100
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,640
Speaker 1: knew it couldn't be real. And I'm like, surely Gillespo

101
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,880
Speaker 1: hasn't got this so wrong that he's actually writing this,

102
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,479
Speaker 1: because this is literally impossible that this would happen for

103
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,200
Speaker 1: a myriad of reasons. And then of course it's not.

104
00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,799
Speaker 1: It's bullshit. It's tongue in cheek and you say essentially

105
00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,839
Speaker 1: that at the end. But I'm amused that people actually

106
00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,839
Speaker 1: well one that I saw anyway, a lady like she

107
00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,240
Speaker 1: clearly didn't read it, and she's like, I hope this

108
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,440
Speaker 1: is not true, and I'm like, well, just keep reading.

109
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,440
Speaker 1: It's not true, but it's it is. It is indicative

110
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,400
Speaker 1: or it is kind of insightful of you know what,

111
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:22,280
Speaker 1: what can happen. I think RFK is anti fluoride, isn't

112
00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,280
Speaker 1: he like? I think he's a big hat.

113
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,640
Speaker 2: I think that's yeah. I think that's one of the things.

114
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's got a whole bloody shopping list

115
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:32,680
Speaker 1: of things he wants to get rid of.

116
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,280
Speaker 4: Hell, that's starting with the podole, of course, which apparently

117
00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,839
Speaker 4: causes autism. No, it does turn you into a psychopath,

118
00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 4: but it doesn't cause autism.

119
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,840
Speaker 1: That is funny. That is I was about to say

120
00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,280
Speaker 1: it doesn't it make you a doesn't what is it? Paracetamol?

121
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 1: Doesn't it make you a temporary sociopath for a few

122
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:59,320
Speaker 1: hours or more? Lightheled down the sociopath scale. Yeah, tell

123
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,920
Speaker 1: me the mechanism. Tell me the mechanism again, I forget

124
00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,160
Speaker 1: you explained to us.

125
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 2: So it's.

126
00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,400
Speaker 4: We've known for a long time that obviously it's a painkiller,

127
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,920
Speaker 4: but we don't. No one's ever really been certain about

128
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,440
Speaker 4: the mechanism for that, just they know that it works.

129
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,200
Speaker 4: And so there have been some studies done, you know,

130
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,240
Speaker 4: those sort of university psychology studies where they try all

131
00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,600
Speaker 4: sorts of things, you know, just to keep themselves entertained.

132
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,240
Speaker 4: And one of the ones they did was one where

133
00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:34,680
Speaker 4: they tested people's levels of empathy both when they were

134
00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 4: on paracetamol and when they weren't, and much to everyone's surprise,

135
00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,160
Speaker 4: there were significant and measurable differences. Now, there is a

136
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,000
Speaker 4: biochemical reason for it, in that it impairs a certain

137
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,680
Speaker 4: circuit in the brain where essentially empathy lives in humans

138
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:59,640
Speaker 4: and in psychopaths, those neurons, which are called one economone neurons,

139
00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:06,160
Speaker 4: very very less active, they have a lower density, and

140
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,240
Speaker 4: so they have no empathy. But what happens when you

141
00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,120
Speaker 4: take paracetamol is that those the function of those neurons

142
00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,440
Speaker 4: get suppressed by the paracetamol and essentially you turn yourself

143
00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 4: into a psychopath for the four or so hours that

144
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:21,720
Speaker 4: the thing works.

145
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,880
Speaker 1: It's bloody hilarious. It's like that. I mean, if you

146
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,920
Speaker 1: wanted to not feel like if you had to go

147
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 1: into a situation where empathy was going to be a

148
00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,600
Speaker 1: limitation for you temporarily, like in terms of having to

149
00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,480
Speaker 1: do something, and that was going to so.

150
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,640
Speaker 2: Being an executioner for example.

151
00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you had to chop someone's head off,

152
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,559
Speaker 1: take a couple of panadol, bibity bobbedy boot as long

153
00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,760
Speaker 1: as you do it within that four hour window, you good.

154
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:53,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, it'll certainly help. There actually have been some serious

155
00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,920
Speaker 4: recommendations around people having to do things which require harming

156
00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:05,240
Speaker 4: others and being given parasitmol for exactly a tempathy lowering effect. So,

157
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:06,599
Speaker 4: for example, surgeons and so on.

158
00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,079
Speaker 1: I was talking to Tiff I was explained to her,

159
00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,840
Speaker 1: I heard this story about in the First World War

160
00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 1: when they were sending this was an American podcast I

161
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,720
Speaker 1: was listening to, but allegedly they were sending all these

162
00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 1: young you know, farm boys and you know city boys.

163
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,720
Speaker 1: I mean, this is what is at nineteen fourteen, the

164
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:34,800
Speaker 1: First World War pre television, pre movies essentially pre all

165
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:39,679
Speaker 1: that kind of that type of propaganda where all of

166
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,120
Speaker 1: these kids were just getting shipped off, here's a gun,

167
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,600
Speaker 1: here's seven minutes of training, go shoot that bloke in

168
00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,840
Speaker 1: the head. And there were like allegedly thousands of them

169
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,600
Speaker 1: that didn't want to do it, like they didn't want

170
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,079
Speaker 1: to kill people. So they're shooting above their head or

171
00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,320
Speaker 1: beside them. And one of the things that they did

172
00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:04,360
Speaker 1: in an attempt to alleviate this lack of drive to

173
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,280
Speaker 1: kill people was they started creating all these kind of

174
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:12,719
Speaker 1: essentially these propaganda movies elevating the status of or promoting

175
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:17,400
Speaker 1: the alpha maleness and desirability of soldiers and war and

176
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,480
Speaker 1: all of this kind of stuff in an attempt to

177
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:26,200
Speaker 1: get these young guys more emotionally and psychologically prepared to

178
00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,120
Speaker 1: go and kill the enemy. Like I never thought of that.

179
00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,160
Speaker 4: Well, the other thing they did was the other thing

180
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,240
Speaker 4: they did was give them masses of cocaine.

181
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:40,800
Speaker 2: So so it was a real problem.

182
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 4: Around twenty percent of the population are so empathetic that

183
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,000
Speaker 4: they would struggle to kill another human no matter what

184
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 4: the circumstances, which is a bit of a problem in

185
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,800
Speaker 4: the military, and so it's always I mean in the

186
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,960
Speaker 4: US military to this day works very very hard against that,

187
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,440
Speaker 4: using combat simulation, video games and so on to try

188
00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:09,520
Speaker 4: and lower people's empathy about killing others. But yeah, it

189
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,680
Speaker 4: was a big problem in World War One, and one

190
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,559
Speaker 4: of the things they did to combat it, and also

191
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:20,080
Speaker 4: to combat the other thing which was PTSD as a

192
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:26,560
Speaker 4: result of killing people or seeing people be killed around you,

193
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:32,200
Speaker 4: was to give them large amounts of cocaine. So cocaine

194
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:37,319
Speaker 4: was dispensed liberally to the troops. Most of them were

195
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,880
Speaker 4: a significant proportion of them became serious cocaine addicts, and

196
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,560
Speaker 4: when they came back to Australia, they brought that addiction

197
00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:48,320
Speaker 4: with them. Luckily it wasn't legal then, I guess, and

198
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,880
Speaker 4: so you could just love off to your local pharmacy

199
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,079
Speaker 4: and pick up some cocaine over the counter and no

200
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:59,400
Speaker 4: trouble whatsoever. And so the addictive state actually spread pretty

201
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,319
Speaker 4: significant amongst Australian population, and at one stage during the

202
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:08,360
Speaker 4: nineteen twenties, Australia was the highest per capita cocaine consumer

203
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 4: in the world as a direct result of it being

204
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:13,760
Speaker 4: freely available.

205
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 2: Well not free, but you know, it wasn't against the law.

206
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,960
Speaker 4: You could readily available to see, yeah.

207
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 1: And.

208
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,640
Speaker 4: Us introducing it en mass into the population through the

209
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,160
Speaker 4: troops that were coming back from the war.

210
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,520
Speaker 1: TIF can you find out when it became a legal

211
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 1: cocaine use became illegal in Australia. I'd like to know that.

212
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,440
Speaker 4: That must have I can tell you a little bit

213
00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,640
Speaker 4: about it. So in the nineteen thirties, the government was

214
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,360
Speaker 4: starting to get a bit worried about the fact that

215
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,280
Speaker 4: everyone was a cocaine addict and felt that it might

216
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,840
Speaker 4: be impairing productivity, and so they did bring in regulations

217
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:53,000
Speaker 4: requiring pharmacists to only issue cocaine with a script. Pharmacists

218
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,360
Speaker 4: initially just completely ignored that and the governments did nothing

219
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,080
Speaker 4: to enforce it. By the time we got through the

220
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,840
Speaker 4: Great Depression, he was starting to be enforced pretty regularly,

221
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,360
Speaker 4: and you pretty much needed a script to get cocaine.

222
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,720
Speaker 1: M wow, did you find anything tip like an absolute

223
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:17,959
Speaker 1: illegal by date? You can get back to it.

224
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,040
Speaker 3: I have taught it to ramble on a lot before

225
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,240
Speaker 3: giving straight answer.

226
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 1: There's a speak just we'll get onto another top.

227
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,120
Speaker 2: To give you a straight answer to you. Wow. Wow.

228
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,520
Speaker 1: There's a show on and I don't promote a Netflix

229
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,520
Speaker 1: really ever, but there's a show on Netflix at the

230
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,520
Speaker 1: moment called In Waves and More. It might be in

231
00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,559
Speaker 1: War and Waves the other way around, but it's basically

232
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,480
Speaker 1: about all these Tier one operators that come back from

233
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 1: More completely fucked up. It's and all the trauma, and

234
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,160
Speaker 1: there's a new drug that they're using. I'm only like

235
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,079
Speaker 1: a third of the way through so it so far,

236
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,120
Speaker 1: it's fascinating, So I can't say the whole thing, but

237
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 1: I mean enjoying it. But there's a drug called iber

238
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,200
Speaker 1: Game that they're using now have you heard of that?

239
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,439
Speaker 2: David? Oh? What is it? Is it a synthetic something?

240
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:14,240
Speaker 1: Rather, it's a h it's not an opioid, it's a

241
00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 1: what do they call it?

242
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 3: Oh?

243
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,640
Speaker 1: God, everyone, We just had a little melt down there.

244
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 1: We were trying to come up with a word, and

245
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,680
Speaker 1: David Gillespie, who knows all the words, couldn't fucking come

246
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,680
Speaker 1: up with the words. So I blame him. Too late

247
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,760
Speaker 1: in the day. For me, it's too late and I'm

248
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,240
Speaker 1: sixty two, So fucking keep your expectations low. Diff who's

249
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,760
Speaker 1: literally got one job and that's just define words, couldn't

250
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,200
Speaker 1: fucking find it with her fat little fingers on her

251
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,880
Speaker 1: keyboard over there? Could She couldn't. She couldn't do the

252
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 1: one thing she got to do, one thing in half

253
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:52,160
Speaker 1: an hour, find a word? All right? Enough about getting

254
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,440
Speaker 1: high and avoiding shooting people in war and drugs that

255
00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,920
Speaker 1: make you psychopathic. So you wrote an article today about

256
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:09,080
Speaker 1: microplastics and the relationship with those on sperm count and fertility.

257
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,560
Speaker 1: Do tell, Do tell? What's happening there?

258
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:18,360
Speaker 4: Interesting study came out about a month ago. Two hundred

259
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:25,640
Speaker 4: men in China having microplastics measured. This is so microplastics

260
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,240
Speaker 4: are really just particles of PBC or polystyrene.

261
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 2: Mostly it's where most of it.

262
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,880
Speaker 4: Measuring how much of it was present in their sperm,

263
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,800
Speaker 4: And the reason for that was that though first of

264
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,200
Speaker 4: all wanting to know whether there was any they found

265
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:51,239
Speaker 4: rather disturbingly that fifty six percent of them had significant

266
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,400
Speaker 4: abortion or measurable amounts of microplastics in their sperm. But

267
00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 4: more disturbingly, they found that that wasn't just interesting fact,

268
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 4: it was that there was a direct association between the

269
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:11,920
Speaker 4: amount of microplastic in sperm and your fertility. So now

270
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 4: we've talked about fertility a bit over the time, because

271
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,640
Speaker 4: we really do have a world wide problem with fertility.

272
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 4: It's male fertility has been dropping at one percent a

273
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,600
Speaker 4: year since nineteen thirty eight, so I don't know how

274
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,320
Speaker 4: many years that.

275
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,560
Speaker 2: That's a lot. Eighty seven years, Yeah, so eighty seven

276
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:37,240
Speaker 2: percent drop.

277
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,640
Speaker 4: Except it's worse than that because since two thousand it's

278
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,120
Speaker 4: been two and a half percent drop per year, so

279
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,280
Speaker 4: it's accelerating.

280
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:45,960
Speaker 2: It's accelerating.

281
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,360
Speaker 4: So we're in a position now where, you know, finding

282
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 4: a fertile mail is starting to get almost impossible, and

283
00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,840
Speaker 4: these guys, you know, there's a lot of people running

284
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 4: aroun waving their hands and saying I've got the answer.

285
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,320
Speaker 4: I understand why this is so, but very few people

286
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,399
Speaker 4: have been able to nail anything down. Definitive sort of

287
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,480
Speaker 4: people a sort of saying, oh, modern life, plastics, radiation,

288
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 4: you name it. Everyone's got a reason. These guys were

289
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 4: trying to nail down one of the excuses that's often given,

290
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:23,119
Speaker 4: which is well, that is given frequently the microplastics. And

291
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 4: what they found is yes, there is indeed an association

292
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,520
Speaker 4: between micropa microplastics, and in particular, if you are in

293
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 4: the habit of regularly, and these guys were using them

294
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:40,040
Speaker 4: every day, using plastic cut aalry, then you're likely to

295
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:41,840
Speaker 4: be most at risk. I guess it's got to do

296
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,480
Speaker 4: with it. It's in direct contact with your food. Bits

297
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,879
Speaker 4: of plastic, tiny microscopic bits of plastic are being broken

298
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,880
Speaker 4: off the surfaces of that food, of those utensils every day.

299
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,800
Speaker 4: So using plastic cut rorery had the biggest effect, but

300
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,160
Speaker 4: there was a big effect in general from heating food

301
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,879
Speaker 4: in plastics to so on. The reason I thought this

302
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 4: was study was interesting was not so much because of

303
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 4: the newsworthy worthiness of that, and there have been news

304
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,280
Speaker 4: stories over the last few days about this, don't use

305
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 4: a plastic knife and fork, It'll make you infertile, which

306
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 4: I guess is where you could go from this study.

307
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 4: The more interesting thing is what they did after they

308
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,080
Speaker 4: found that, which is that they went to look at

309
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:34,439
Speaker 4: what was the mechanism, So why would microplastics affect your

310
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:39,920
Speaker 4: ability to conceive? And what they found is that what

311
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:45,679
Speaker 4: it was doing was triggering, triggering a sort of a

312
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 4: panic button, if you like, in in sperm cells, which

313
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 4: is something triggered by oxidative stress. So when when cells

314
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,440
Speaker 4: are under oxidative stress, they usually are triggered to die,

315
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 4: particularly where they're important cells carrying DNA that are being

316
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 4: used to create the next generation. Then you don't want

317
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 4: that DMA being damaged by something and then going on

318
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 4: to make you know, a baby that may not be

319
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 4: getting the correct DNA set, and you can have all

320
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 4: sorts of introgen generational disease being caused then, so lots

321
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,400
Speaker 4: of things that are often blamed on those sorts of things,

322
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 4: you know, such as autism and down syndrome and so on.

323
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:34,120
Speaker 4: So the body protects itself by self destructing the sperm

324
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,159
Speaker 4: that it detects have error and usually pretty good at it,

325
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,960
Speaker 4: and the ones that misses are also protected by a

326
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 4: secondary and similar scene in the female which results in

327
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 4: a miscarriage. So that's all well and good, and that's

328
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 4: how the microplastics are doing it, and none of that

329
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 4: is a particular surprise, except that exactly the same pathway

330
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,880
Speaker 4: is triggered, and we have known has been triggered for

331
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 4: a long time by smoking, for example, So smoking we

332
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 4: know does the same thing, and we also know that

333
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 4: the cure for that is to tell a man who's

334
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 4: thinking about having a baby to stop smoking if he

335
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 4: does three months beforehand, because it takes three months to

336
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 4: clear out the sperm, if you like, have them refreshed

337
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,359
Speaker 4: with a brand new lot that aren't affected by whatever

338
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 4: it is you've been doing, consuming microplastics or smoking. And

339
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 4: the reason for that is that smoking introduces a whole

340
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 4: lot of aldehydes into the system.

341
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 2: And we've talked about aldehydes before that.

342
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 4: Cause DNA disruption and destroy and damage the DNA in

343
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 4: sperm cells in particular, which are not very well protected

344
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 4: in the body because they make so many of them.

345
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 4: So the body's going down the big pen route rather

346
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,639
Speaker 4: than the long block pen, which is it's better to

347
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,200
Speaker 4: have a thousand bad ones that you can throw out

348
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 4: if they don't work, then have one really really good one.

349
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 4: So so that's why that advice has always been given

350
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 4: about smoking. At the start, when they were giving that advice,

351
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 4: it was just from observing that ten men tended to

352
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 4: have more luck getting women pregnant if they weren't smokers.

353
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 4: And then later on the science caught up and we

354
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,679
Speaker 4: figured out the aldehyde triggering that autooxidation pathway, which is

355
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 4: exactly the same thing that they're now picking up with

356
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 4: the microplastics. So smoking microplastics very very bad if you

357
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 4: want to have babies. The other one that's recently been

358
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 4: picked up is alcohol. Of course, we've always known heavy

359
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,479
Speaker 4: drinking is bad for conception in males. Now we know

360
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,199
Speaker 4: why once again, big big producer of aldehydes which have

361
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 4: that DNA destructive thing. Once again, cure is the same,

362
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,400
Speaker 4: stop drinking ninety days before you intend to and eve

363
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 4: and everything should be fine. And then there's the really

364
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 4: really big and nasty one that we've talked about before,

365
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 4: but which is really really nasty because it's less easy

366
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 4: to fix and that is seed oils, so the canola, sunflower, soybean,

367
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,679
Speaker 4: almond oil, pinut oil, all those sorts of things, the

368
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 4: seed oils that are now entrenched in our food supply

369
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 4: because they're cheap and theoretically healthy. That's what all the

370
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 4: health authorities tell us. But so they've replaced all the

371
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 4: animal fats and so on, and our foods fly. Everything's

372
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 4: full of the stuff that produces a particularly nasty aldehyde

373
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 4: called for HNE, and four HNE is just as destructive

374
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 4: as the alcohol, the ones from alcohol and smoking and microplastics.

375
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 2: The problem with.

376
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 4: It is that, unlike those other three, we don't hang

377
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 4: on to microplastics in our our bodies.

378
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 2: We don't hang on too cigaret.

379
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,360
Speaker 4: We don't stash a few diurries away for later when

380
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 4: we're having a cigarette.

381
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 2: It's a one and done kind of thing. And the

382
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 2: same goes for alcohol.

383
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 4: We spend a considerable amount of time and energy getting

384
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 4: the alcohol out of our system because it's a poison.

385
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 2: So we don't hang onto that either.

386
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 4: The fats, however, because they are pretty handy for building

387
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 4: baby brains, get hung onto and we hang onto them

388
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 4: for as long as we possibly can. Because in our

389
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 4: natural environment, they're pretty rare. In fact, we hang onto

390
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 4: them were on average about six hundred days, so we

391
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,439
Speaker 4: store them for about six hundred days, so two years.

392
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 4: So the advice is the same if you want to conceive,

393
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 4: you know, don't do this thing, except that they don't

394
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 4: do this thing is eat anything containing seed oils, which

395
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 4: is just about about anything, and don't do it for

396
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 4: two years. And when you know that, is it any

397
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: wonder that male fertility rate is plummeting. It's not just

398
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 4: because we use it because we're smoking, drinking. Smoking and

399
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 4: drinking have actually improved significantly, but we probably are using

400
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 4: more micro more plastic stuff. But nothing that would explain

401
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 4: two and a half percent a year. The thing that

402
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 4: explains that is the massive increase in seed oils in

403
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 4: our food.

404
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: Supply, bloody hell. I wonder like one percent a year

405
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: since nineteen thirty eight yep, thirty eight, you know, which

406
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,239
Speaker 1: was whatever, eighty seven percent and now it's gone up.

407
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: The rate has increased. I mean, if there's no intervention

408
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 1: or effective intervention, or there's no strategy or there's no

409
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: I mean what we've spoken about this a little bit,

410
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: or we haven't spoken about the thalatees or the plastics

411
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: or the you know whatever. But but like, this is

412
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: not something that's generally been discussed. It's something that affects everyone,

413
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 1: men and women. Like this is a catastrophic health issue.

414
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: And yeah, you think, well, I wonder in twenty and fifty,

415
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: which ain't really that far away, you know, so twenty

416
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: five years from now, at the current rate of progression,

417
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: what's happening, Like, what's the population of Australia, what's the

418
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 1: how many babies are being born here, what's the infertility rate,

419
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: what's you know, I wonder what the real world reality

420
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: will be.

421
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 4: Then increasingly we'll be relying on what we would describe

422
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 4: as third world countries where the seed oil conglomerates haven't

423
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 4: bothered destroying the food supply. Because this seed oil issue

424
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 4: is largely a Western problem, because it's it's in our

425
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 4: takeaway food, it's in all of our fried food, and

426
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 4: it's on it is much less of a problem in

427
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 4: countries that aren't exposed to the standard American diet.

428
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 2: And so.

429
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 4: The breeders, if you like that, the people who will

430
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 4: still be able to conceive reasonably easily are going to

431
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 4: be people who are not exposed to that diet in

432
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 4: any significant quantity, and so you will increasingly see countries

433
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 4: like Australia and the United States and the UK and

434
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 4: Europe and someone relying on immigrants for children and less

435
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 4: on their own population growth. And you can already see

436
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 4: that in the population numbers. And there's lots of lovely

437
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 4: narratives about why that is. Oh, we're richer, you know,

438
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 4: women work more, et cetera, et cetera, and all those

439
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 4: things are true, but there's also this underlying thing going on,

440
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 4: which is biochemically, we're destroying our ability to reproduce, and

441
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 4: no one seems to be doing much about it because

442
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 4: everyone's running around looking for these far fetched explanations like

443
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 4: whether not you use plastic knives and forks, which do

444
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 4: explain a bit of it, but which are nowhere near

445
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 4: the real problem.

446
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: I wonder, is the impact on women the same, Like,

447
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: is it a comparable impact physiological consequence for women and men?

448
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: No, not at all.

449
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 4: So women are actually pretty well protected against this stuff.

450
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 4: They have a fairly good redundant protection protection system. You

451
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 4: want to remember, it's a different They are using the

452
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 4: mont Blanc method. They get all the eggs they're going

453
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 4: to get right from the start.

454
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: If I hope you take I hope you're taking notes

455
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: with yeah there.

456
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 4: So they're going with the do it properly protected well method,

457
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 4: whereas sperm's going with NA make three hundred million of them.

458
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 2: What happens if we lose a few hundred million doesn't matter.

459
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 2: Only one's got work.

460
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:02,959
Speaker 1: So, Tiff, are you a little bit?

461
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 3: Well?

462
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: That happens to the man, and this happens to the women.

463
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 1: Are you a little bit? What about me?

464
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 3: Though? I haven't be on what what about the hybrids?

465
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 1: What about Tiff and her hybrid friends who have got

466
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: one foot in each camp?

467
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: I can't comment on the biology of tift friend.

468
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, so I mean, yeah, wow. So I guess

469
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 1: the or part of the solution is just education and

470
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: awareness and you getting out there with your little bloody

471
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: megaphone at every opportunity and just informing the masses. But

472
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: there's no there's no quick fix, is there, Because it's

473
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: not I mean, what you bring to our attention is

474
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: not something that's uh spoken about a lot or or

475
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, in fact, it's you know, I'm sure there

476
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: are people who go David Gillespie doesn't know what he's

477
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: talking about. I believe you, I'm sure of I'm sure

478
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: of your research, and I tell people about seed oils

479
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: as well. But there are a lot of people who

480
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: are out there sharing a different idea or a different message.

481
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's true.

482
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 4: But if you take the chain of things that I

483
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 4: was talking about there, so the oxidation, the four HNE,

484
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 4: the damage to DNA, all of those things. You take

485
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 4: that chain of things, so you will find really really

486
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 4: high quality science supporting every single one of those statements.

487
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,959
Speaker 4: There are very few people putting them together and saying, well,

488
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 4: if all of these things are true, then you have

489
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 4: an explanation.

490
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: But it is the case.

491
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 4: There's not one element of that where someone could seriously

492
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 4: come to you and say, now, what he said about

493
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 4: four HME is a load of rubbish.

494
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: It's perfectly harmless.

495
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 4: Every scientist on the planet would agree, No, it is

496
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 4: extremely dangerous aldehyde, and it does just r upstan and

497
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 4: it is a bad thing to introduce a sperm. All

498
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 4: of those individual facts, you will find plenty of very

499
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 4: reputable scientists who will agree on. What you won't find

500
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 4: too many of is people who put all of those

501
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 4: things together in a line and saying, yeah, but what

502
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 4: does this add up to and is there a possibility

503
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 4: that explains why we're blowing away our ability to reproduce

504
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 4: at the rate of two and a half percent a year.

505
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 4: By the way, it's slightly higher illustrate. It's about three

506
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 4: percent a year in Australia, but the world average is

507
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 4: two and a half.

508
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: That is a staggering like three percent doesn't seem much,

509
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: but every year is terrifying.

510
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: Particularly when we're approaching the floor.

511
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 4: So the flaw of viable reproductive capacity is around the

512
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 4: ten million mark. And you know there are now average

513
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 4: readings in the Australian population that are between twenty and

514
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,239
Speaker 4: thirty million, and readings from the nineteen forties were up

515
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 4: in the hundreds of millions, three and four hundred minute,

516
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 4: so you know we're already approaching the floor.

517
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm. Well, so it's a good thing. I'm past

518
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: my use by dat. I don't need to worry. I'm

519
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: like fucking old cart and the milk just sitting on

520
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: the fucking shelf, just fucking next to it, next to

521
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: a wilted flour. Somebody just come along and fucking pop

522
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: me in the bin. If I was going to ask

523
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: you what oils you use to Do you cook with

524
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: oil or do you just put cold oil on salads?

525
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: Or like, what's your go to?

526
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 3: I use olive oil and coconut oil.

527
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, both good calls.

528
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 4: But it's not so much the the oil you add yourself.

529
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 2: It's the oil that's hidden in food you buy.

530
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 3: So speak to the cookie shop lady and see what

531
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: she's using.

532
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: Usually the answer.

533
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 4: Usually the answer is the cheapest one they can get,

534
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 4: because no one can taste the difference.

535
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,239
Speaker 1: Hey, speaking of oils, do you know what phenoles are?

536
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: Have you heard of that PhD in ols? That like

537
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: the levels of phenols in oil and in olive oil

538
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: in that so, yeah, you can tell me about this.

539
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is bullshit, but they say

540
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: that high. I think in olive oil, like in Australia

541
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: it's typically under three hundred whatever's per desoleta.

542
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 4: Or I have every now and then looked at this

543
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 4: phenol thing and never been able to find any convincing

544
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 4: science about it. I know that it comes in waves

545
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 4: of people worrying about it, but I honestly there's some

546
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 4: stuff there, but nothing that convinces me that it's even

547
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 4: worth writing a piece about.

548
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: Honestly, I coach I won't say who, and obviously, but

549
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: I coach someone who owns an olive grove and they

550
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,239
Speaker 1: produce this and the all over it like they are

551
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: very high phenol. I think it's like six hundred and

552
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: fifty plus per whatever. Whatever the measurement is, the normal

553
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: measurements under two fifty. This is like three or four

554
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: x that, and they rave about it anyway.

555
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 4: I'd much I'd be much more interested in an olive

556
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 4: oil in what percentage of the olive oil is a

557
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 4: Mega six fat? So it varies quite a bit with

558
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 4: olive oil, and some of them can are not necessarily

559
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 4: better than the seed oils they're replacing, and some of

560
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 4: them are a lot better. So that varies between about

561
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 4: ten percent and up to around twenty percent. And I

562
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 4: wish people would focus on that rather than the phenoles.

563
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: On the world famous David Gillespie fat scale, ten out

564
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: of ten being the healthiest yep on your scale the

565
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: Gillespie scale, what do you give olive oil?

566
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 4: What numbers are it's on the borderline, like it's on

567
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 4: the it'll do right if if you if you must

568
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 4: have a liquid fat.

569
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: There aren't a lot of choices. It'll do.

570
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 4: It's on the arginly safe side of the borderline. So

571
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 4: I'm not going to against not going to say to

572
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 4: people they shouldn't have olive oil.

573
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's also not something i'd rave about.

574
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: So you'd give it a six maybe out of ten?

575
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, six, seven, something like that.

576
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 1: And what would you give butter?

577
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 4: Oh nine, that's ten. Nine depends what the cow eight?

578
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 4: But yeah, nine or ten?

579
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: And what would you give lard.

580
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 2: Ten?

581
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 4: No, it depends what the pig eight Because pigs so

582
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 4: lard obviously it's pig fat.

583
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 2: But and pigs are omnivores like us.

584
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 4: So if the pig was raised on a grain diet,

585
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 4: was a grain fed pig like ninety seven percent of

586
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 4: pigs in Australia, then it's probably a three or a four.

587
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 4: If the pig was raised, you know, on open forage,

588
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 4: then it's probably an eight or nine. Because they're omnivores

589
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 4: like us, they store all the amega six they eat,

590
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 4: and of their eat they're fed a lot of omega six.

591
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 4: They've got a lot of omega six in their fat.

592
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: And I'm guessing it's a similar story for tallow.

593
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: So tallow is beef fat.

594
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 4: It's always going to be a ten, simple because ruminants

595
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 4: like cows don't store any more than about three percent

596
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 4: of their body fat has polyunsaturate, so it doesn't really

597
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 4: matter what they're fed. I know, people get all up

598
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 4: and down about you know, he's a grass feed is

599
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 4: a grain fed. Yeah, there'll be slightly worse fat profile

600
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 4: in a grain fed beef, but not that much worse

601
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 4: because the absolute limit is three percent.

602
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: Anyway, what did you say you have tiff? Did you

603
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: say coconut oil? Did you say that? Or did you coconut?

604
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: What is a good nine or ten?

605
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: Is there anyone that I've missed out that you want

606
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: to give a tick?

607
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 4: There's that one to know the name of the name

608
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 4: escapes me. The one that's very very popular in India

609
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 4: that's basically rendered butter.

610
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 2: Note gee, that's the one. Yeah, yeah, very very very

611
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 2: high that one.

612
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 4: But if you're going to cook, if you're going to

613
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 4: do frying in oil, the best one is to pop

614
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 4: down to the supermarket and get super fry, which is

615
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 4: sold in the little red cubes of foil and that's

616
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 4: just rendered beef fat.

617
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: Very good choice.

618
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: There you go, There you go. I'm actually getting a

619
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: little bit hungry now, but we've got another podcast straight

620
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 1: after this, so that's kind of inconvenient. Yeah, perfect. Where

621
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: can people find you and follow you? And is there

622
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: anything you want to plug? You're pushing a book, you're pushing.

623
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 4: We will be pushing a book next year, but at

624
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 4: the moment we're not pushing a book. But if you

625
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 4: want to read the articles that I've been talking about,

626
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 4: including the zempic one, then you can just go over

627
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 4: to David Gillespie dot org. So just my name dot

628
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 4: org and you'll be able to find all this stuff there,

629
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 4: including this interview.

630
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: Well you're perfect. Yes, I saw that. We've better wrap

631
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: this up so I can tell you tip secret.

632
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm desperate.

633
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: Maybe she can