Speaker 1: Welcome to How Do They Afford That? The podcast that
Speaker 1: peaks into the financial lives of everyday Australians. I'm Michael Thompson.
Speaker 1: I'm a writer and the co host of the podcast
Speaker 1: Fear and Greed business news. As always, I'm with Canna Campbell,
Speaker 1: financial planner, founder of Sugar Mama TV, the financial literacy
Speaker 1: platform that is on Instagram and threads and books, podcasts, YouTube, TikTok,
Speaker 1: keynote speeches and more. Hello Canna, Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1: I am? Well, thank you. I am intrigued by today's topic.
Speaker 1: It's a one that you have been thinking a lot
Speaker 1: about lately and quite deeply, yes as well.
Speaker 2: It's really impacted me and it's really changed my mindset
Speaker 2: and the way that I want to talk about money
Speaker 2: in an evolved way.
Speaker 1: You could say, oh, that sounds very kind of high level,
Speaker 1: but really, I mean everyone's heard of the work life balance, right,
Speaker 1: This idea of kind of restoring some kind of order
Speaker 1: of working to live, not living to work, all that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Remote and hybrid working has certainly helped
Speaker 1: with that. So today we're kind of starting with the
Speaker 1: idea of work life balance and looking at how it
Speaker 1: applies to money in a way. Is there's such a
Speaker 1: thing as finding a financial balance, a balance between all
Speaker 1: the different components of your life in terms of your money,
Speaker 1: you're saving, you're spending, paying down debts, kind of investing,
Speaker 1: all of these bits and pieces, getting them all working
Speaker 1: in in harmony. Great word, what is financial balance? Have
Speaker 1: I completely butchered it there? Or was I roughly close? No?
Speaker 2: As you said, like, it's something, How do I explain this? Okay,
Speaker 2: So to go straight to the point, My idea of
Speaker 2: financial balance has changed and evolved. So I watched an
Speaker 2: interview recently with Jeff Bezos and he was challenging the
Speaker 2: term of balance and.
Speaker 1: What it was.
Speaker 2: He suggested that the idea of balance implies a trade
Speaker 2: off or sacrifices, so you can't have too much of
Speaker 2: that because then you've got to go without that. Instead,
Speaker 2: what he explains in this particular interview is he sees
Speaker 2: it more as a work life flow where if you
Speaker 2: are fulfilled and growing at work, you are then more
Speaker 2: present and happy at home. So it's about moving in
Speaker 2: a state of harmony. And this had a huge impact.
Speaker 2: It was so thought provoking in that it made me
Speaker 2: think about money. You know, if you don't spend something,
Speaker 2: you know, with the consequence of that or if you
Speaker 2: still spend money the consequence of spending that money. So
Speaker 2: my definition of balance really has changed. And you know,
Speaker 2: I've always thought balance is something in movement. You can't
Speaker 2: just have permanent, perfect balance and just have it static.
Speaker 2: It is always moving. So for me now financial balance
Speaker 2: is actually about having every dollar has its purpose, has
Speaker 2: its role, and it's now about a moving, healthy flow
Speaker 2: between saving, investing, and obviously planning for retirement to managing debt,
Speaker 2: but also included in that mix is some guilt free spending.
Speaker 2: So it's about achieving an element of financial harmony in
Speaker 2: how we actually allocate the motion and movement of money
Speaker 2: in our lives. And instead of just seeing it in
Speaker 2: a very polar black or white world where it's about
Speaker 2: saving and spending in very simplistic ways and seeing them
Speaker 2: as you know, competing goals, it's actually about combining them
Speaker 2: all together, almost like a piece of music that helps
Speaker 2: create an overall sense of harmony and fulfillment and satisfaction.
Speaker 2: So it's not about you sacrificing, but actually about creating
Speaker 2: freedom and having a plan that allows a very healthy
Speaker 2: respectful sense of enjoyment today, but also honoring and respecting tomorrow,
Speaker 2: rather than feeling like we are stretched and pulled and
Speaker 2: pushed in all sorts of different directions with these competing
Speaker 2: goals and ambitions and dreams and also financial responsibilities and pressures.
Speaker 2: Sorr it went for a really long answer. No, see,
Speaker 2: it's really impacted me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and all of this kind of starting with Jeff Bezos,
Speaker 1: which is not a place where I thought we would
Speaker 1: start an episode. And it's interesting because obviously he's the
Speaker 1: founder of Amazon and one of the richest people in
Speaker 1: the world. And I always kind of wonder when you
Speaker 1: hear people like that talking about the importance of work
Speaker 1: life balance. It perhaps it's easier to have a work
Speaker 1: life balance when you have one hundred billion dollars in
Speaker 1: the bank account and kind of you're not. But he's
Speaker 1: living to work.
Speaker 2: He's a very busy person working. He isn't like, you know,
Speaker 2: he's made obviously an.
Speaker 1: Absolute yeah, indeed empire.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's still working and you know.
Speaker 1: No, it's but it's a really good starting point for
Speaker 1: this because this idea of money being in a flow
Speaker 1: is an interesting, interesting idea, and this concept that every
Speaker 1: dollar should have its purpose, that that it is spending, investing,
Speaker 1: even kind of giving yourself room to kind of treat yourself.
Speaker 1: It feels like you're moving into your I'm going to
Speaker 1: say your I was going to say your woo woo
Speaker 1: era maybe of money with this. But it is actually
Speaker 1: really practical, isn't it? Because it is not just necessarily
Speaker 1: about changing your mindset. It is about a practical kind
Speaker 1: of system or a practical way of looking at money.
Speaker 1: How do you figure out that, how do you figure
Speaker 1: out if you are in balance or whether you are
Speaker 1: like overweight on one particular aspect of money. It's about
Speaker 1: stepping back and doing an audit of your finances of
Speaker 1: what you are spending, what you are saving, what you
Speaker 1: are investing, how much debt you have, how you're paying
Speaker 1: that back, whether you are allowing yourself to have any
Speaker 1: fun with your money as well? Is it just is
Speaker 1: it step back first and look.
Speaker 2: At it, Step back and look at what's going on,
Speaker 2: and explore and dissect and get in touch with how
Speaker 2: you're feeling, so you know, look at the spending habits,
Speaker 2: and look at the debts that you have in your life,
Speaker 2: and what savings you might have and any investments that
Speaker 2: you've built so far, and then ask yourself where does
Speaker 2: this sit with your value system? You know, how does
Speaker 2: this allocation of debts or savings of investments even you know,
Speaker 2: how does that actually make you feel? And look to
Speaker 2: what actually makes you feel proud and smile inside. So
Speaker 2: you might think, you know what, when I look at
Speaker 2: my savings accounts, I feel good about myself. I feel strong,
Speaker 2: I feel resilient. So that is a great insight for
Speaker 2: you then to build upon and go, Okay, well, that
Speaker 2: is actually something that I really value. It's really important
Speaker 2: to me. I can maybe I need to look at
Speaker 2: channeling more of my focus to have that financial harmony,
Speaker 2: to maybe prioritizing a little bit more my savings and
Speaker 2: what I can potentially do, and then obviously going back
Speaker 2: to the budget. So what I'm trying to say is
Speaker 2: it's the reflection that helps identify the errors that needs
Speaker 2: some adjustments so that you have that mindfulness to make
Speaker 2: the changes to your flow of money in your life
Speaker 2: so that you can actually feel like it's more connected
Speaker 2: and more purposeful and more realistic with the current situation
Speaker 2: you're in.
Speaker 1: I suppose without being too cynical about it, and I
Speaker 1: suppose that the part that kind of sticks in my crawl,
Speaker 1: so to speak with Jeff Bezos is it feels like
Speaker 1: this kind of reflection is almost a luxury that I
Speaker 1: might be wrong with that. Yeah, it feels like it
Speaker 1: can be a luxury if you have plenty of money,
Speaker 1: if you have the ability to actually kind of put
Speaker 1: money into you know what. I really feel like I
Speaker 1: need to be putting more into the future and investing more,
Speaker 1: or be kind of spending more on me. I'm not
Speaker 1: appreciating money. That It's easy enough to say that if
Speaker 1: you have the money there to do that with. But
Speaker 1: if you are constantly financially stretched and every week you
Speaker 1: are just living from kind of paycheck to paycheck and
Speaker 1: you're just getting by, how can you apply this mindset
Speaker 1: to that great question?
Speaker 2: And you are you are? I think you're spot on.
Speaker 2: But also I don't have squeallias of dollars like Jeff Bezos.
Speaker 2: I think it's more of the mindset principle in it
Speaker 2: taking the pressure and stress that you're putting on your
Speaker 2: own shoulders to look at, Okay, things are really tight
Speaker 2: right now, how can I find out what I value. So,
Speaker 2: for example, things might be you might have lots of debts.
Speaker 2: At the moment that awareness that it creates, it goes, okay,
Speaker 2: all right, I don't value the debts of my life.
Speaker 2: I need that that is a priority for me, and
Speaker 2: I need to channel my energy and the flow of
Speaker 2: money to making sure that I honor that goal in
Speaker 2: a sense of financial harmony to pay that debt off,
Speaker 2: like use it as a tool to help maintain focus
Speaker 2: and motivation, because you will then value once you are
Speaker 2: debt free. So I'm saying I probably not articulating myself
Speaker 2: very well, but and I understand exactly what you say,
Speaker 2: and I actually hope I completely agree. But I'm also
Speaker 2: using this as someone who is just like everybody else.
Speaker 2: I've got a mortgage, I've got childcare, I've got grocery bills.
Speaker 2: You know, I've got the same stresses and pressures as
Speaker 2: every was most of people do out there. And I'm
Speaker 2: using this as a way of creating an awareness so
Speaker 2: that I don't get beat myself up and get myself
Speaker 2: down if I don't achieve something or something doesn't work
Speaker 2: out or didn't land where I'm supposed to, but also
Speaker 2: to help create that understanding of what's important, where does
Speaker 2: my value sit in the whole story of harmony, and
Speaker 2: just completely understanding that it doesn't. It's not a war
Speaker 2: inside our bank accounts and our investment portfolios. It's about
Speaker 2: and this is why I say the idea of which
Speaker 2: is not Jeff's idea about the idea of a movement,
Speaker 2: it's mine. You know, that's I talked about an idea
Speaker 2: of a song. You know, there are times in your
Speaker 2: life where debts are important being on top of and
Speaker 2: that's you know, like you think about an orchestra, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, the brass might be the dominant sound in
Speaker 2: that particular piece of music. So that's the debts. You know.
Speaker 2: You go, okay, well, all right, right now, the feeling
Speaker 2: of debt doesn't feel good. I need to honor that.
Speaker 2: I have that awareness now, I need to honor and
Speaker 2: respect it, and my financial flow goes towards that, and
Speaker 2: I will. I'm committed to going through that piece of
Speaker 2: music until it fades out and I can use what
Speaker 2: I've learned from that to then flow onto other things.
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, I have that awareness as to
Speaker 2: what I want as the next piece in the music
Speaker 2: and I'm waving my hands around like a conductor.
Speaker 1: It does feel like you are conducting this flow of
Speaker 1: money right now.
Speaker 2: And that's something that I think sometimes when you are
Speaker 2: motivated and you're ambitious, and you're you know you've got
Speaker 2: this financial drive to build a great life yourself, you
Speaker 2: can definitely page yourself in a corner where you put
Speaker 2: so much stressure and pressure on yourselves to achieve certain
Speaker 2: goals and then if you fall short or that something
Speaker 2: happens and you don't even come close to you can
Speaker 2: really beat yourself up. And this is just a different
Speaker 2: a bit of a mindset refresh to look at something
Speaker 2: from a different perspective and understand that there are different
Speaker 2: times of your life where unfortunately it is about debt
Speaker 2: and it is about getting back on top of that debt.
Speaker 2: But knowing that the song will change, the chorus will
Speaker 2: fade away and the next lyrics you know part of
Speaker 2: the song will come up and you'll move on to
Speaker 2: the next part of your life. And having understanding that
Speaker 2: nothing is set in stone, things do move. Things you
Speaker 2: have achieved by that connection to what you value. Because
Speaker 2: for example, I hate debt. We have a mortgage.
Speaker 1: I hate it.
Speaker 2: But you know, Bruce, for you, you might not really
Speaker 2: bother you about the mortgage, but it's having that awareness
Speaker 2: of what you value and what makes you feel harmonious inside,
Speaker 2: so you can focus on more of that to give
Speaker 2: you more happiness.
Speaker 1: All right, I understand. I think the mindset. Now we're
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break now, and when we
Speaker 1: come back, I want to talk about how we then
Speaker 1: implement some strategies using that mindset. So it's not just
Speaker 1: about the theoretical, it is actually about the practical how
Speaker 1: we kind of use that to go Okay, I want
Speaker 1: to focus on my debt or I want to focus
Speaker 1: it on investing and how you can use that in
Speaker 1: order to set yourself up or come back in a second.
Speaker 1: Can are we talking today about financial balance? And it
Speaker 1: is quite a It's an alternative way of looking at money,
Speaker 1: isn't it. It is really about kind of the flow
Speaker 1: of money. And I initially thought when we were talking
Speaker 1: about it that it was about goal setting, that it
Speaker 1: was about setting these goals, but being open to the
Speaker 1: fact that you may get their different ways to what
Speaker 1: you intended. That it's not just go one hundred percent
Speaker 1: in the direction of this particular goal that it might
Speaker 1: actually take you off in different directions, but you'll still
Speaker 1: get there eventually. But it now feels it doesn't quite
Speaker 1: feel like that, because it feels like if you set,
Speaker 1: if you're setting these hard and fast goals for yourself,
Speaker 1: you are setting yourself up to potentially fail and you
Speaker 1: will be too hard on yourself. Have I interpreted this correctly?
Speaker 2: But as it absolutely and there's an awesome element you
Speaker 2: could say it's almost surrendering, not giving up at all,
Speaker 2: but surrendering to the process and the journey and obviously
Speaker 2: means still doing your best and trying, but just taking
Speaker 2: that pressure off yourself and to stop thinking that I
Speaker 2: can't buy that because you know, I've got to do this.
Speaker 2: Like it's making peace within yourself to allow things within
Speaker 2: a mindful, respectful way.
Speaker 1: Of course. You know, now I'm going to ask you
Speaker 1: to put it into a formula or some because it's
Speaker 1: been a very kind of theoretical, hypothetical, kind of slightly
Speaker 1: woo woo kind of discussion. How do we put it
Speaker 1: into practice? Because we've talked in the past about financial priorities,
Speaker 1: about kind of whether you pay down your debt first,
Speaker 1: or whether you kind of start investing or whether you
Speaker 1: are focusing on the mortgage or whether you're focusing on
Speaker 1: getting just the household budget under control. There's no simple formula,
Speaker 1: is there.
Speaker 2: And you know, this is the thing with financial planning,
Speaker 2: and as a financial planner, you could tell a client
Speaker 2: this is the most efficient way to fix your finances,
Speaker 2: but you've really got to respect that money doesn't work
Speaker 2: like this. And this is this is kind of what
Speaker 2: Jeff Bezos is saying. A client might say to you, Look,
Speaker 2: I actually don't really care about the mortgage. Yes, it
Speaker 2: will come down, it will come down, you know within
Speaker 2: the banks terms and conditions. I actually value being able
Speaker 2: to take my family on a holiday once a year,
Speaker 2: or being able to work part time. That's that awareness
Speaker 2: to what that person's values are. And of course we
Speaker 2: go through different stages of our lives where you know
Speaker 2: things are important and they're not then important five years later.
Speaker 2: And I know for myself that you know, when I
Speaker 2: had children, that was a huge shift for me in
Speaker 2: where money played a role in my life. It was
Speaker 2: more about security and stability rather than that ambition of
Speaker 2: building wealth.
Speaker 1: So is it about and aligning money to your values?
Speaker 1: But understanding that your values change.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, As I said, nothing is set in stone,
Speaker 2: and it's really important. You know, the best relationship you
Speaker 2: could ever have is with yourself. So this includes that
Speaker 2: understanding of what where money fits in and what money
Speaker 2: represents to you in your life. Does it represent stability?
Speaker 2: Does it represent freedom, does it represent independence, luxury? You know,
Speaker 2: investing that time to actually find out what that is
Speaker 2: and knowing that it will most likely change and evolve
Speaker 2: as we do with our own personal growth and development
Speaker 2: of life.
Speaker 1: Okay, So using that then to set your financial priorities
Speaker 1: and again kind of coming back to how we practically
Speaker 1: implement this. It is about stepping back. It is about
Speaker 1: reflecting on what is causing you the greatest angst potentially,
Speaker 1: So I say it is the mortgage, or say it
Speaker 1: is this feeling that you know what, I'm still young.
Speaker 1: I have an opportunity now to set myself up for
Speaker 1: the future. I need to pay attention to my super
Speaker 1: It is about okay, this is what I need right
Speaker 1: now in order to really the pressure on myself and
Speaker 1: putting your attention on that.
Speaker 2: Yes, and making peace with those decisions. Okay, because you
Speaker 2: have that boundary in place, yes, I am going to
Speaker 2: prioritize my superinnuation. But I'm going to prioritize my superhuation
Speaker 2: whilst also enjoying travel, or whilst also enjoying buying beautiful
Speaker 2: produced food or whatever it met. That person's individual value
Speaker 2: system is okay.
Speaker 1: And never mind the fact that, yes, you might have
Speaker 1: a mortgage at the same time, and everyone says you
Speaker 1: have to pay your mortgage down as quickly as you can.
Speaker 1: That doesn't necessarily apply to you because it doesn't align
Speaker 1: with your values exactly.
Speaker 2: It's like the people who would prefer to take the
Speaker 2: scenic route and enjoy the journey rather than the other
Speaker 2: person who values getting to their destination is in the fastest,
Speaker 2: most efficient way possible, but they're happy to pay the
Speaker 2: tolls and go on the motorway.
Speaker 1: It's making sense.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm really worried. I haven't quite got my
Speaker 2: making sense. Does this make sense?
Speaker 1: It actually is. And then that kind of leads me
Speaker 1: into that point that you made earlier. You mentioned it
Speaker 1: in passing about life stages requiring different approaches to financial balance,
Speaker 1: in that as you perhaps approach retirement, you will be
Speaker 1: feeling the pressure of that and making sure that you
Speaker 1: are kind of setting yourself up that you're going to
Speaker 1: have enough money to live the retirement that you want,
Speaker 1: and so suddenly that is the thing that is kind
Speaker 1: of your priority, and the other things may kind of
Speaker 1: drift away for now. And it is being comfortable with
Speaker 1: that and not necessarily feeling that you're doing the wrong
Speaker 1: thing by focusing choosing to focus on that and not
Speaker 1: just saving or not paying down other debt. Things like
Speaker 1: is this I am getting this?
Speaker 2: And about living authentically in alignment to your values, obviously
Speaker 2: with an element of financial intelligence, but understanding the flow
Speaker 2: and how all the pieces move together.
Speaker 1: Okay, symphony? What in symphony? This starts? It brings it
Speaker 1: back to you and your big conductor hands that you
Speaker 1: had before.
Speaker 2: What's a very philosophical episode. And I'm sure it's working progress,
Speaker 2: I'm but it's had a huge impact on me and
Speaker 2: I think you know, right now, obviously things are tight,
Speaker 2: you know, the interest rates rise in cost of living.
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people are feeling stressed and pressure.
Speaker 2: For me, in discovering this and exploring and pondering and
Speaker 2: reflecting and parking and coming back to it, it's helped
Speaker 2: move my mindset into a less restrictive, high pressure you
Speaker 2: know about deprovision and sacrifices, and just made it a
Speaker 2: bit more lightweight, which is what some of us need
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what does success look like in this? What is
Speaker 1: the end goal here? A balanced approach financial balance? What
Speaker 1: does that result in? Is it a life of financial freedom?
Speaker 1: Is it retirement kind of with enough money to travel
Speaker 1: and to buy a new car every couple of years
Speaker 1: or something like or or is it much like the
Speaker 1: actual financial plan? Is that fluid as well?
Speaker 2: I think it's fluid. You know. Obviously the mac Daddy
Speaker 2: Rolls Royce financial strategy is to be able to live
Speaker 2: off the passive income off your investments, whether it be
Speaker 2: through superannuation or through your growing investment put forward. That
Speaker 2: is the sort of basics one oh one of financial freedom.
Speaker 2: But let's look at it, I guess go back to
Speaker 2: your value system and your priorities. For some people that
Speaker 2: doesn't float their boat. That's not what they're up for,
Speaker 2: like that they actually for them that their definition of
Speaker 2: financial freedom is actually, you know, being able to travel
Speaker 2: around the world and live in lots of different countries
Speaker 2: and do volunteer work. It's that's why I said, you
Speaker 2: know a second ago. It's about living authentically in alignment
Speaker 2: to your value systems, but in best time exploring it
Speaker 2: so you can create that flow for yourself and make
Speaker 2: peace with that.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of running your own race. Is not
Speaker 1: comparing yourself to others, and it's making sure that your
Speaker 1: money and your strategies for money, and you're prioritizing of
Speaker 1: different kind of things just aligns with with your values,
Speaker 1: which can change over time. Yes, and you use the
Speaker 1: term macdaddy. I don't know how I feel about this.
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry about that. We I'll go and find
Speaker 2: another term to use next time.
Speaker 1: I don't think we'll put that on the list of
Speaker 1: things that are not allowed to be mentioned in the
Speaker 1: studio ever. Again, very philosophical episodes today, except for the
Speaker 1: macdaddy part that that's not philosophical at all.
Speaker 2: Am I allowed to use the term rolls Royce.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fine, Okay, that's completely legit Macdaddy. Ah, No way,
Speaker 1: all right, You've given us plenty to think about here.
Speaker 2: I would love to hear your thoughts listeners as to
Speaker 2: what you think of this and whether any of this
Speaker 2: has made sense and whether anything is actually resonated with
Speaker 2: you and helps you find an element of maybe flow
Speaker 2: financial flow.
Speaker 1: Okay, And if people want to get in touch with
Speaker 1: you on through Instagram, through Instagram is the best way
Speaker 1: to reach you, all right. And you can hear every
Speaker 1: day with Sean Aylmer on Fear and Greed, daily business
Speaker 1: news for people who make their own decisions. Thank you
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