Speaker 1: Patrick, Yeah, greg O, what are you? Intro the show?
Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to the You Project with Craig Harper, Tiffany
Speaker 2: Cook and special guest Patrick Bonello.
Speaker 1: It's great to have you groovers here today. That's pretty good. Now,
Speaker 1: that's good. Maybe if you could pop up because sometimes
Speaker 1: I can't be fux saying that, so, well done, well done,
Speaker 1: and hello from Fritz as well. Who is sitting on
Speaker 1: your lap.
Speaker 2: We probably should screen grabbed this and placed it somewhere.
Speaker 2: He's pretty damn cute, isn't he. Well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also your dog is somewhere else in the house.
Speaker 1: Good morning, tiff Patrick, thank you for introing the show.
Speaker 1: Per my request, Tiff, how are you?
Speaker 3: I'm very good? Thanks? How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good? What's going? You're a little bit flatty mcflatster.
Speaker 1: Earlier in the week we're recording this Friday morning. Have
Speaker 1: you have you found your fucking rhythm, your mojo?
Speaker 3: I have you know when you just need to have
Speaker 3: that one day of throwing it all away and then
Speaker 3: and then you're good. I'm good? Good now, I am
Speaker 3: really good? Thank you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, good, just checking in. Patrick? Are you good? Do
Speaker 1: you have flat days? Mate? Do you ever because you.
Speaker 1: You always present yourself like I try to present myself
Speaker 1: as up and aboutside is tiff, I know, but do
Speaker 1: you have flat days sometimes?
Speaker 2: But I kind of my friends excuse me of being
Speaker 2: way too busy. I've got something on all the time.
Speaker 2: Next week, I think I've got something on every night.
Speaker 2: So I've got book group on Monday night. Tuesday, I'm
Speaker 2: singing in a choir. Wednesday, I'm teaching tai chi. Thursday,
Speaker 2: I'm teaching tai chi, and then Friday, I don't know
Speaker 2: yet what I'm doing on Friday. Don't like they're both
Speaker 2: laughing at me. You asked me a serious question. I
Speaker 2: gave you a serious answer, and I'm just saying I'm busy.
Speaker 2: I don't have time to think about other stuff. I
Speaker 2: think if you fill your world with stuff you don't forget,
Speaker 2: you get bogged down.
Speaker 1: And I just said, don't think you really understand mental
Speaker 1: health if you think busyness is the cure. Let me.
Speaker 1: I said you. I said to you, do you hang on?
Speaker 1: Do you ever get a bit flat? You didn't even
Speaker 1: fucking answer the question you just told us about your calendar.
Speaker 2: I think, like all of us, we do tend to
Speaker 2: get flat. But what I've tried to do in my
Speaker 2: life is put in mechanisms of joy and things that
Speaker 2: I really enjoy that can be uplifting. So, you know,
Speaker 2: it's like running your own business. There's cash flow issues,
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes some months and a bit lean, So
Speaker 2: those issues come up all the time. And yes, you
Speaker 2: can get a bit down when you look at the
Speaker 2: bank balance, or something happens, someone.
Speaker 1: Cuts you off in them, you know whatever.
Speaker 2: But I think that looking for mindfulness moments and I
Speaker 2: try to really actively search for that. So I look
Speaker 2: at things engagements, I catch up with friends, I walk
Speaker 2: for its and meet up with friends at the park,
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. So I think we can be
Speaker 2: proactive about trying not to be flat. You know, I
Speaker 2: spent my teenage if we're going to get deep here,
Speaker 2: I spent my middle teenage years and later teenage years
Speaker 2: self harming and going through a really dark place.
Speaker 1: And so for me, I started to understand.
Speaker 2: That, you know, at an early age that those engagements
Speaker 2: and the people that I connected with really helped get
Speaker 2: me out of those dark places. So I think that
Speaker 2: I've done that as an adult successfully, and I think
Speaker 2: part of it also it's not so much fooling yourself.
Speaker 2: And you said, oh, you know, you always put on
Speaker 2: a cheery attitude. But I think you can all you
Speaker 2: can alter your mindset.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Part of the journey of being, say, a really good athlete,
Speaker 2: is convincing yourself you're a good athlete. Part of the
Speaker 2: journey it's if you know when you step in the ring,
Speaker 2: the confidence that you've got, if you believe in yourself
Speaker 2: first and foremost, then that's going to give you that
Speaker 2: little edge, that extra five percent that means that you're
Speaker 2: going to get where you need to go. And I
Speaker 2: think that's right in life. I think if we look
Speaker 2: for those positive engagements. You know, I walk down the
Speaker 2: street in our little country town and I might bump
Speaker 2: into three or four people and it's great, you know,
Speaker 2: But at the hardware store, you know, you know, the
Speaker 2: people at the post office. Just seeing people around and engaging,
Speaker 2: I mean, you're really social.
Speaker 1: Harps.
Speaker 2: You go down the street and you have your coffee
Speaker 2: across at the cafe. It does make you feel better
Speaker 2: and feel good about yourself.
Speaker 1: No, I tell them to fuck off. I might stop
Speaker 1: talking to me. Fuck off. No, I'm not answering your questions.
Speaker 1: Fuck off. No, I'm not like that at all. I
Speaker 1: love it. I'd be exactly like you if But I
Speaker 1: did laugh when you said, you know, in the traffic
Speaker 1: in Milan, there's fucking seven cars, So don't don't talk
Speaker 1: about the traffic in Milan. We don't even have a stop. Yeah. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean you did talk. You've spoken to us before
Speaker 1: about growing up and trying to figure out sexuality and stuff.
Speaker 1: Was that part of the being a bit emotionally lost
Speaker 1: and in the wilderness for you or was that a
Speaker 1: separate thing?
Speaker 2: Oh it isn't it was. I don't think it's much
Speaker 2: different than most teenagers, you know. I think you lose
Speaker 2: a lot of confidence and you look towards peer pressure
Speaker 2: for validation, which is takes on the whole online thing
Speaker 2: we'll chat about later. But the reality of it is,
Speaker 2: you know, when you're growing up and you get to
Speaker 2: those teenage years and your brain chemistry starts to alter,
Speaker 2: you do look for peer approval, I think for most
Speaker 2: of us, and if you doesn't fit in, that can
Speaker 2: be aspiraling experience for you. So unless you put on
Speaker 2: your desert boots and decide to go for a jog
Speaker 2: around the park because you're a bit of you want
Speaker 2: to change by.
Speaker 1: A good memory. Yeah I was. I was just yep,
Speaker 1: I had a shit experience and then I went for
Speaker 1: running desert boots because I didn't fucking know what I
Speaker 1: was doing. Let's talk about AI and tech and all
Speaker 1: of the patrick things. I'm going to let you lead
Speaker 1: it today. Well, I just want to I want to
Speaker 1: lead one. Then I want you to take over the reins.
Speaker 1: Obviously you send us a bunch of topics and of
Speaker 1: also I want to know about sex in space.
Speaker 2: Knew I knew you would look at that straight away. Well,
Speaker 2: this is a funny thing. We've been or humanity has
Speaker 2: been going into space for a long time, but everyone
Speaker 2: is a bit mum about whether or not people have
Speaker 2: sex in space. International Space Station, you know that sort
Speaker 2: of stuff, intergalactic copulation. Well, if this is a broader
Speaker 2: research and broader I guess to study into and a
Speaker 2: look into the feasibility of long term space travel. So
Speaker 2: if we're going to Mars and it's going to take
Speaker 2: months and months and months or years to get there,
Speaker 2: then what happens with the viability of being able to
Speaker 2: have sex? And then there's the whole thing of like,
Speaker 2: wouldn't it be great to be floating around and have sex? Well,
Speaker 2: actually it would be pretty tough because you know, you
Speaker 2: can't be banging into things because it just bounce away.
Speaker 2: So you're like, that's what sex is. Yeah, you tried
Speaker 2: on the International Space Station. It's a whole new experience.
Speaker 1: I feel like you should take some ocki straps with you.
Speaker 2: And gaffer tape because they use a lot of gaffetape
Speaker 2: on the ISS.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: Look, so some brains have been thinking about this, and
Speaker 2: the question has always been have astronauts actually ever done
Speaker 2: it in space? And NASA won't say a thing, and
Speaker 2: astronauts tend to be really coy about it. Your body
Speaker 2: changes when you're in low gravity, so fluid distribution actually changes,
Speaker 2: and the way your body because you've got no gravity,
Speaker 2: I guess to pull the body fluids in different directions.
Speaker 2: I mean, it does open up a whole experience. Well,
Speaker 2: think about the two astronauts up there at the moment
Speaker 2: that went there for eight days and now have been
Speaker 2: stuck there for eight months. I mean, let's face it,
Speaker 2: there's got to be some relief somewhere. I mean, we're
Speaker 2: all human beings, but I don't know what do you reckon?
Speaker 2: Would you like to be floating around in space and
Speaker 2: doing a bit of you know, playing around at the
Speaker 2: same time as it seemed like something.
Speaker 1: You haven't read a lot of sci fi, have you, Grego? No,
Speaker 1: But you know what I'm asking chat GPT does does
Speaker 1: the viscosity Does the visity of body fluids change in space?
Speaker 1: Shif that's where he went, No, no, no, because you
Speaker 1: were talking about, Yes, the viscosity of body fluids changes
Speaker 1: in space due to the effects of micro gravity on fluid.
Speaker 1: Because what I'm talking about is obviously sperm is a fluid,
Speaker 1: blood is a fluid. Saliva as a fluid. Look at you,
Speaker 1: Patrick TIFFs making a face as well. What's wrong with
Speaker 1: you too? If you two didn't have fluids, you'd both
Speaker 1: be fucked. So embrace your fluids, Patrick, embraced your sperm
Speaker 1: and your blood and your saliva and your wi all
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, because I think that would I think
Speaker 1: that would change things in terms of on.
Speaker 2: All evels viscosity we're talking about here. Well, evidently the
Speaker 2: only person after this little research study and questioning of astronauts,
Speaker 2: a cosmonaut, came back and said of course you have
Speaker 2: sex by hand, so I I.
Speaker 1: Don't think jacking off on the moon is the same.
Speaker 1: Well you know that. And then it comes to.
Speaker 2: The dear, I just yeah, anyway, it just occurred to
Speaker 2: me that you know the way that you know if
Speaker 2: you're floating and all of a sudden, No, I don't worry.
Speaker 1: You lost your trying to thought? Have you lost your
Speaker 1: trying to thought?
Speaker 2: Really visual there for a moment, I think we should
Speaker 2: go into another time.
Speaker 1: So but the answer is, but you do make a
Speaker 1: valid point because for and I think it takes doesn't
Speaker 1: it take like ten years to get to Mars or something?
Speaker 1: But I think less because they have a different wind,
Speaker 1: they have a window.
Speaker 2: So it's when the planetary alignment's right to get Mars.
Speaker 1: Closer because it's years, right, it's not? Yeah absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So then let's say you put one hundred of people
Speaker 1: on Mars. Well, for the proliferation of the pop population
Speaker 1: on Mars, you can't just keep topping it up with
Speaker 1: people from Earth. I guess you need to produce a
Speaker 1: few new ones.
Speaker 2: But would you want to have children on Mars? I
Speaker 2: don't think quite yet.
Speaker 1: I feel like day care. Oh fuck? And imagine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. You wouldn't have any traffic problems
Speaker 1: up there, Patrick, but Land would be busy compared to Mars.
Speaker 2: Three years I go just on average, depending again where
Speaker 2: the planets are aligned, around about three years to get
Speaker 2: to Mark.
Speaker 1: And nobody wants to know this except me. But what's
Speaker 1: the gravity on Mars relative to what's the gravity situation
Speaker 1: relative to Earth.
Speaker 2: It's it's small, it's less so, but it's still a
Speaker 2: reasonable amount of gravity.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what it is, but lot so
Speaker 1: that what that means is if there's less gravity, that
Speaker 1: means relatively I could fuck this up, but I think
Speaker 1: it means we're lighter in inverted commas on So I
Speaker 1: might only be about thirty five kilos on Mars, I
Speaker 1: might be able to run at about eight hundred miles
Speaker 1: an hour. Yeah, I don't think so. But the problem
Speaker 1: with all that anti gravity stuff is the moment that
Speaker 1: you get in zero gravity, your body starts to fall
Speaker 1: apart because you don't need muscle and strength and bone
Speaker 1: density and all that shit starts to fall through. People
Speaker 1: who come back from long stints in space, their body
Speaker 1: has aged horribly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly evidently the if you weighed one hundred pounds,
Speaker 2: and this is I'm using pounds as the example, it
Speaker 2: would be thirty eight pounds on Mars, So it's a third, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my poo's weigh a hundred pounds some morning, depending
Speaker 1: on what I've had the day before. So maybe not quite.
Speaker 1: You haven't already turned off yet to those three remaining listeners.
Speaker 1: See all right, you talk about something other than pooing
Speaker 1: and pro creating in space? If that could be the
Speaker 1: title of the show, Pooing and pro Creating in Space.
Speaker 2: I feel like I need to do a positive story
Speaker 2: because the stuff that I was going to talk about
Speaker 2: was really kind of a bit of a downer. Well,
Speaker 2: I know, we don't we talk about this a little bit?
Speaker 2: And do you ever did you've.
Speaker 1: Watched Star Wars? Obviously, Yeah, I actually quite like Star Wars.
Speaker 1: I also don't mind a bit of start track. Okay,
Speaker 1: so the New Hope.
Speaker 2: Do you remember when they're on the Millennium Falcon and
Speaker 2: they're playing the chess game and they've got the little
Speaker 2: holographic chess pieces moving around, you know, when Luke Skywalker's playing.
Speaker 1: Don't be ridiculous, you don't remember that. Do you remember that, say,
Speaker 1: you mean Star Wars was nine seventy seven.
Speaker 2: But everybody's seen it. I'm trying to get a term
Speaker 2: of reference. There's the NBA in the United States has
Speaker 2: teamed up with Apple and what they've done this is
Speaker 2: kind of cool. It's really interesting. If you're a big
Speaker 2: sports fan, imagine that you're sitting in your lounge room
Speaker 2: and you're watching a live sporting event, and then you
Speaker 2: have a holographic representation of the footy or the tennis
Speaker 2: or the rugby or whatever, and all the players are
Speaker 2: in miniature running around the field, and you can kind
Speaker 2: of walk around your living room table and see all
Speaker 2: the action as it plays out on your dining room
Speaker 2: table or your living room table.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be kind of cool? I don't know, that
Speaker 1: would be weird.
Speaker 2: I guess it'd be god view, wouldn't it's downing on
Speaker 2: the Wouldn't that be great.
Speaker 1: To sound I've always wanted to feel omnipotent. That could
Speaker 1: be my best shot I think for.
Speaker 2: A sporting fan though, because suddenly, because when you think
Speaker 2: about it, when you watch sport, you're I guess beholden
Speaker 2: to the camera, people, to the directors, they show the
Speaker 2: scenes that you're looking at at any given time, but
Speaker 2: if you see the entire match played out holographically in
Speaker 2: front of you, then you can just walk around and
Speaker 2: see all your players playing the game, all the action
Speaker 2: and this is real. Now they're talking about doing this
Speaker 2: using at this stage the vision Pro headset. That's the
Speaker 2: the the Apple the headset. But it would be a
Speaker 2: really great way to mean what about a boxing match, Tiff.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're if you're able to.
Speaker 2: Walk around the ring, the rings there in front of you,
Speaker 2: and you can move around it and walk around it
Speaker 2: and see the see the boxes from different directions.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be cool? There's already a version of that,
Speaker 1: But I think Tip would rather just punch a human
Speaker 1: and faith in the Yeah, okay, goggles, just give me
Speaker 1: a just give me some warment to punch. Speaking of Apple,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw this. I meant to
Speaker 1: watch it and then I forgot. Last night on the
Speaker 1: news they were talking about Apples brought out a new
Speaker 1: smartphone which is like about half the price like their
Speaker 1: You you know how they're up to. I know you're
Speaker 1: an Android person, but you probably didn't see it. Did
Speaker 1: you see that TIF anyway. Okay, so apparently Apple have
Speaker 1: brought out a new iPhone which has got like everything
Speaker 1: you need but not too many of the bells and whistles.
Speaker 1: But I think it's about half the price, which I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of the providers have been doing that.
Speaker 2: Google has been putting out their A series, So when
Speaker 2: you release a phone, they say put out the you know,
Speaker 2: the nine, the Pixel nine, and then a little while
Speaker 2: later they'll put out the Pixel nine A. So it's
Speaker 2: more of a budget version of their flagship phone. It's
Speaker 2: a good marketing strategy. It means that you know, when
Speaker 2: you think about it. I mean people in Australia, it
Speaker 2: always staggers me how many people have iPhones. I was
Speaker 2: at dinner with some friends last Friday night and somebody was, oh,
Speaker 2: I know what it was. They were looking at their
Speaker 2: calculator on their phone because they'd had an update to
Speaker 2: their Apple phone, their iPhone. And now there's a new
Speaker 2: fixture that gives you real time cash transfer from different currencies.
Speaker 2: So whether it's the ASX or something built into it,
Speaker 2: but you can do it. You can type in one
Speaker 2: hundred US dollars, convert to Australian dollars on your calculator,
Speaker 2: and they were raving about it, and then everybody pulled
Speaker 2: out all their iPhones and I'm sitting there with the
Speaker 2: only one with an Android phone, thinking, well, I just
Speaker 2: have to go to the AX, don't I, because I
Speaker 2: can do it there. But it's interesting that this new
Speaker 2: roll out and this due app But I, you know,
Speaker 2: of all the people and I reckon, there must have
Speaker 2: been about twelve of us at dinner, eleven of them
Speaker 2: had iPhones. And interestingly, the demographic was they were all
Speaker 2: older than me, so that says a lot, but it
Speaker 2: was an older chemographic and I think older people, like
Speaker 2: I mean, young people love them too. But I thought
Speaker 2: that was interesting that of all my older friends, most.
Speaker 1: Of them are on iPhones. When you think about the
Speaker 1: capacity that phones have now, whatever phone be at iPhone
Speaker 1: or Samsung or whatever, I wonder on average, like I
Speaker 1: have an iPhone fourteen, which is I guess just just standard,
Speaker 1: like well it's the Scott that but I would say,
Speaker 1: of all the things that that phone can do, I
Speaker 1: probably used two percent of the capacity in that that
Speaker 1: phone has. And I wonder, and I think about that
Speaker 1: with other things you know people that buy you know,
Speaker 1: I like a motorbike that does three hundred kilometers an hour,
Speaker 1: for example, not that I would do that, not to
Speaker 1: one hundred and two seconds. Like people buy all these
Speaker 1: things that they never really actually use the thing that
Speaker 1: they bought anywhere near to its capacity. I had to
Speaker 1: borrow a friend's car recently.
Speaker 2: Well, I should say she offered her car to me
Speaker 2: when she found out that I had to put my
Speaker 2: car in to get some work done on it. And
Speaker 2: she said, now don't turn all the safety gadgets back
Speaker 2: on again, because the last time I used her car,
Speaker 2: I thought, hey, Lene assist isn't working, and so I
Speaker 2: turned on all the adaptive technology.
Speaker 1: And she said, I can't drive my car anymore because
Speaker 1: she switched on all the safety features. You know, It's true.
Speaker 2: I know someone who bought a Mercedes and then didn't
Speaker 2: know how to use half of the things in the car.
Speaker 2: And for some people they're quite content not using cruise
Speaker 2: control or adaptive cruise control and the other features. I mean,
Speaker 2: I use lane as cyst, I use adaptive cruise control,
Speaker 2: speed limitter, all those things. In fact, that's one of
Speaker 2: the reasons that I had to do the podcast early
Speaker 2: today because I'm taking my car and to get the
Speaker 2: radar replaced because it's been a bit faulty.
Speaker 1: What do you mean is that the radar that does
Speaker 1: the autonomous braking if somebody in front of you right
Speaker 1: right right, you know, in my car, and also detect
Speaker 1: submarines and aircraft and things. Well, I mean, and you
Speaker 1: need that incoming bogies. At nine o'clock, my car drives it.
Speaker 1: You can get out of my car and press a
Speaker 1: button and it puts itself away in the garage. But
Speaker 1: I can't remember how to do it. And you can
Speaker 1: also press a button and it backs itself out of
Speaker 1: the garage into the driveway or any spot. And when
Speaker 1: I bought it, they're like, look at this. I'm like,
Speaker 1: fucking hell, it's in the showroom driving itself up and back.
Speaker 1: And I went, that's awesome. And then I got home
Speaker 1: and I didn't even think about that. And now six
Speaker 1: months later, I don't know how to do that at all.
Speaker 2: Oh, you could do it from an app on your phone.
Speaker 2: Well you know, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just that's true. You can do it from
Speaker 1: an app. You can start it from an app. Wow,
Speaker 1: I could sit up my phone from where I'm my car,
Speaker 1: from where I'm sitting right now.
Speaker 2: But that's great if you're at a shopping center and
Speaker 2: it's a boiling hot day in your cars outside, you
Speaker 2: could turn it on, turn the eck on on, and
Speaker 2: then by the time you get to the car, it's
Speaker 2: nice and cool.
Speaker 1: See there you go. That's a good use of remain. Also,
Speaker 1: it's hybrid, so I'm not burning fuel. Were you kind
Speaker 1: of are kind of are?
Speaker 2: Well, you are, It's just it doesn't mean you're running
Speaker 2: on battery all the time.
Speaker 1: All right, Could you give us another story because there's
Speaker 1: twenty here and we've only done one, so we're going
Speaker 1: to be tuesday. Robotic exoskeletons, all right. So that's for
Speaker 1: the for our listeners who don't know, and I could
Speaker 1: get this wrong. That's a thing that you kind of
Speaker 1: get into, yes, and it ambulates for you. It's so
Speaker 1: I guess maybe people with disabilities and stuff. People who
Speaker 1: want to climb mountains in China. It's a thing.
Speaker 2: So one of the tallest mountains in China. It's a
Speaker 2: very popular tourist destorate destination. But you can go there
Speaker 2: and you can hire an exoskeleton to help you climb
Speaker 2: because it's so steep and take so long.
Speaker 1: Okay, So describe to people what that is. So is
Speaker 1: that like a mechanical suit that you get into.
Speaker 2: It's not a full We're not talking a Sigourney weaver
Speaker 2: in Aliens, okay, in case you are going there. We're
Speaker 2: talking a minimal kind of assistive technology where as you
Speaker 2: take a step, the framework that sits, it's like calipers
Speaker 2: on your legs, you know, and they just assist in
Speaker 2: that extra little bit. So we're not talking doing the
Speaker 2: walking for you. But for me, when I saw it,
Speaker 2: I thought, a it's kind of cool, But I guess
Speaker 2: I'm more thinking about friends who've a friend of mine
Speaker 2: who's got Parkinson's and how hard it is for her
Speaker 2: to get around now, and if they've got like gyroscopic
Speaker 2: technology built into them and they can assist you and
Speaker 2: keep you firm, because balance, as you know, is so
Speaker 2: important as you get older, because it's the fall it's
Speaker 2: going to you know, be that downhill spiral for you.
Speaker 1: So if you can get an.
Speaker 2: Adaptive kind of exoskeleton that will assist you in kind
Speaker 2: of getting up out of a chair, walking around and
Speaker 2: keeping you balance, that was the thing I took out of.
Speaker 1: This story, Buteah.
Speaker 2: Evidently, when you go to this place in China, they
Speaker 2: you can hire these exoskeletons and I don't know how
Speaker 2: long the battery lasts in them, but it means that
Speaker 2: you can actually have assisted walking up the steepest inclines.
Speaker 2: But I saw a British model a few years it
Speaker 2: was about maybe six months ago, and they were testing
Speaker 2: them and they strapped to your legs and they, as
Speaker 2: I said, they don't walk for you, but they've felt
Speaker 2: that people could kind of walk about twenty five percent
Speaker 2: faster and for a longer duration as well, so they
Speaker 2: assist you normal walking.
Speaker 1: Now, when you started this, I said, oh, for people
Speaker 1: with disabilities, and you went no, for people climbing mountains.
Speaker 1: Hang on, and then you went back to people with disabilities. No.
Speaker 2: But the story was about climbing mountains in China. But
Speaker 2: I saw that and like that's where my head went
Speaker 2: as well. But I wanted to kind of tell the
Speaker 2: story part first and then say that yes, I see
Speaker 2: that that's going to broader interest and could have a
Speaker 2: real beneficial All right, I'll let you off.
Speaker 1: But you know what, you know what I think about
Speaker 1: all this stuff. Isn't it amazing How we keep inventing
Speaker 1: shit like electric bikes and exoskeletons for so people don't
Speaker 1: have to actually use their muscles. We keep finding let's
Speaker 1: invent something where a person doesn't have to physically work,
Speaker 1: Like with the application of people with disabilities. I think
Speaker 1: it's fucking brilliant. But for the average person who doesn't
Speaker 1: have a disability, just use your body. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: an idea. Just climb, or just ride, or just run
Speaker 1: or just walk. I mean, muscles are really they've been
Speaker 1: around for a while. They're pretty tried and tested. Fucking
Speaker 1: give yours a go.
Speaker 2: But what about if you're in your seventies and you've
Speaker 2: always wanted to go to China and climb this mountain
Speaker 2: and previously had been out of the scope of your abilities.
Speaker 2: This little bit of an edge might get you over
Speaker 2: the line a little bit.
Speaker 1: So you know what else will give you a bit
Speaker 1: of an edge. Squats and deadlifts and lifting heavy shit
Speaker 1: before you go away. That's another point as well. Yes,
Speaker 1: very valid. There's this other thing called strength training. Probably
Speaker 1: heard of it. You should give it a go. Fifty
Speaker 1: years old.
Speaker 2: That's true, though, it's interesting, but I love, I do
Speaker 2: love when you see technology adapted to assist people. I
Speaker 2: must say I saw a local story in Australian story
Speaker 2: recently about a guy who's been knocked back from the
Speaker 2: National Disability Insurance Scheme. The ndis they try to apply
Speaker 2: to get a chat GPT subscription, so he wanted to
Speaker 2: be able to use chat GPT and it was knocked
Speaker 2: back by the funding body saying there's a risk of
Speaker 2: false information and its poor value for money.
Speaker 1: Now for me, I guess I get.
Speaker 2: You know, if someone can use the likes of chatpt
Speaker 2: to make their life easier, and we know with you know,
Speaker 2: AI assistance and all that sort of thing, it seems
Speaker 2: to make sense. But interesting that a government body has
Speaker 2: ruled and it was you know, they made an application
Speaker 2: and then they tried to you know, reapply and it
Speaker 2: was knocked back on appeal. So it says that, you know,
Speaker 2: if the belief and the ruling of whoever it was
Speaker 2: that made the decision was that they're not reliable enough
Speaker 2: to be funded, you know, what does it say about
Speaker 2: the future of AI or the perception of AI that
Speaker 2: we really can't trust it and that kind of lead
Speaker 2: me on led me onto an interesting story I was
Speaker 2: reading the other day and I wanted to chat about,
Speaker 2: was cognitive decline in AI models. So there's this belief
Speaker 2: that as AI models get older, they potentially could do
Speaker 2: exactly what us humans do and go into a cognitive decline.
Speaker 1: Oh, which, wow, that doesn't a little bit, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: I don't know how that. I mean, I'd love to
Speaker 1: know the mechanism, because there's the cognitive decline in humans
Speaker 1: is essentially biological and nature. You know, It's like it
Speaker 1: happens because our brain gets old, then it degenerates and deteriorates.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't I mean, who knows, Like in one
Speaker 1: hundred years. Fucking hell, what's the biology technology interface? We're
Speaker 1: not going to know. I mean you probably walk down
Speaker 1: the street and go is that a human or is
Speaker 1: that a robot? You might not know.
Speaker 2: Well, the British Medical Journal is where the research was done.
Speaker 2: So it was a study published back in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: so a right at the end of last year, so
Speaker 2: it wasn't that long ago. They're saying that AI technologies
Speaker 2: like large large language models chatbots now showing signs of
Speaker 2: deteriorated cognitive abilities as they advance in age. We know
Speaker 2: that they have little hiccups every now and again. Sometimes
Speaker 2: they just zone out and you get really weird results.
Speaker 2: So I guess it's challenging the assumption that artificial intelligence
Speaker 2: will effectively replace us, because, I mean, we know that
Speaker 2: the good thing about AIS is they can take a
Speaker 2: whole lot of data and they can do interpretations that
Speaker 2: people may not be able to, particularly a medical diagnosis.
Speaker 2: You know, one of the things that's really hard is
Speaker 2: diagnosing illness because effectively we have to rule out what
Speaker 2: it is before we can find out what it is.
Speaker 2: But because these language models have so much access to
Speaker 2: so much data that as a human being, it's very
Speaker 2: very hard. And you, given what you've been doing, you know,
Speaker 2: pulling all that research in, I mean, how interesting would
Speaker 2: it be to take all of your studies information, put
Speaker 2: it all into a computer, all into an AI, and
Speaker 2: see what it summarizes it has, see what sort of
Speaker 2: conclusions it derives. Obviously you're too busy to do that
Speaker 2: all now, But don't you find that fascinating to see?
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a story very relevant to what you're saying.
Speaker 1: So the other day I got my so I just
Speaker 1: sent off my as I told you before we went live,
Speaker 1: one of my first papers for publication, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: this is this paper is one of my studies that
Speaker 1: I did. It's all the studies, all the data, all
Speaker 1: the interpretation, blah blah blah, l like in total four
Speaker 1: years of work for this one paper. But I'm doing
Speaker 1: multiple papers at the same time. But so I put
Speaker 1: it into an l l M as you call it,
Speaker 1: and I said, can you read this and turn it
Speaker 1: into a user friendly article, like read a friendly article
Speaker 1: for the Harvard Business Review and the inn literally it
Speaker 1: read in inverted commas, my paper that's taken four years.
Speaker 1: It read it, and it wrote an article what it's
Speaker 1: called a gray paper in academia because it's not a
Speaker 1: it's not an academic paper, but it's halfway between, you know,
Speaker 1: a magazine paper and an academic paper. And so it
Speaker 1: wrote a paper for Harvard Business Review, which is it
Speaker 1: would have taken me a week to write this paper
Speaker 1: and it's my research and it wrote it in one
Speaker 1: minute and it's good and it basically did an overview.
Speaker 1: And obviously I'm not using it. I can't use it
Speaker 1: because it doesn't it doesn't fit within the parameters of
Speaker 1: the scope of PhD literature. But that shit is amazing.
Speaker 1: It's already incredible. What it's going to be like in
Speaker 1: a year or two is mind blowing.
Speaker 2: Well, then, when you think about it, it's that a
Speaker 2: bad thing that it was able to look at all
Speaker 2: that four years of information and to form a concise summary.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's your work. Oh, I think it's brilliant. No,
Speaker 1: I think it's fucking incredible. But what it can't do.
Speaker 1: It can't do the research for you, Like, it can't
Speaker 1: go and you know, get all the humans, put them
Speaker 1: in a room, give them again, like so you do
Speaker 1: all the work. But it can definitely synthesize and interpret
Speaker 1: pretty well. Like it's pretty incredible. Although it does make
Speaker 1: me wonder, sorry Patrick, it does make me wonder moving forward,
Speaker 1: like the value and I hate to say this, but
Speaker 1: the value of tertiary qualifications because it's so easy to
Speaker 1: not not with my stuff because it's independent research, but
Speaker 1: with a lot of undergraduate degrees now where you've got
Speaker 1: to write an essay on something and or you've got
Speaker 1: to read and you know, summarize or synthesize some reading.
Speaker 1: I don't know how they're going to police that because
Speaker 1: the the you know, the ability to be able to
Speaker 1: produce high level work, especially at an undergraduate level, and
Speaker 1: they go, oh, yeah, but I can detect it now
Speaker 1: they can't because it's evolving by the day. And also
Speaker 1: I don't know where that's going to go.
Speaker 2: If you uploaded all of your previous work to try
Speaker 2: to get the style, your writing style and said, mimic
Speaker 2: the way that I do this, then suddenly you've trained
Speaker 2: it on a language model that is your own creative process.
Speaker 1: So that's an interesting thought as well. You know what
Speaker 1: occurred to me.
Speaker 2: You were saying that it was four years of data
Speaker 2: and information and the research that you've done and in
Speaker 2: some ways for it to be able to summarize all
Speaker 2: that you as a human being. If you had to
Speaker 2: spend that week doing that, potentially you could miss something.
Speaker 2: You know, potentially, you know, is there a chance that
Speaker 2: you may have slipped up and that you know, there
Speaker 2: was some really important data that slipped through to the
Speaker 2: keeper that maybe CHATJBT could you so you could say
Speaker 2: write yours over the week and then say did I
Speaker 2: miss anything out? By comparing the two it's summary, your summary,
Speaker 2: what did I miss out? And then it can go
Speaker 2: back through and say, oh yeah, that was great, great, great,
Speaker 2: except think about maybe this, this and this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, mate, I don't even you know, I'm not even
Speaker 1: dog shit on the shoe of AI. Like it's Ai.
Speaker 1: I'm a fucking moron compared to AI, no doubt.
Speaker 2: And it's no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1: With this stuff that we're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you've got one thing that AI will never have,
Speaker 2: and it's compassion and humanity, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm just talking about no, thank you, that's it.
Speaker 1: What are you being nice for? I'm uncomfortable. What are
Speaker 1: you doing? No, but look I know what you mean.
Speaker 1: But in this sense, like the stuff that it can
Speaker 1: produce in this like in this kind of paradigm, this
Speaker 1: academic intellectual kind of pursuit. Oh yeah, it's it's crazy.
Speaker 1: It makes me excited.
Speaker 2: And look I get it. And it's like any other
Speaker 2: tool that we've been using. I mean, think about you know,
Speaker 2: I know we've spoken about this before the turn of
Speaker 2: the century of the automobile, all those things that it's
Speaker 2: potentially we're going to put people out of work.
Speaker 1: It was going to change society as we saw it.
Speaker 2: Whether it was television, broadcast, radio, whatever. People have always
Speaker 2: been resistant to technology because it was felt that it
Speaker 2: would take the humanity away from trades, or the humanity
Speaker 2: away from entertainment, the humanity away from you know, potentially
Speaker 2: writing this sort of material. But I think if we
Speaker 2: use this tech to take the drudgery out to do
Speaker 2: fact checking, to be able to use it for oversight,
Speaker 2: there's lots of positive things that we can use these
Speaker 2: really amazing technologies that are emerging, And it's like anything
Speaker 2: we you know, we can use it in a positive sense.
Speaker 2: We can use it, you know, to create viruses that
Speaker 2: we then in computers with. We can use it to
Speaker 2: be able to create you know, viruses that are real
Speaker 2: world viruses that can then be used to kill cancer,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. We you know, we use
Speaker 2: our own DNA and we combine or our RNA and
Speaker 2: combine it with a retrovirus and that potentially could search
Speaker 2: out and destroy cancer cells or transform those cancer cells
Speaker 2: into non malignant cells, you know.
Speaker 1: That sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: So I think that there's it's like any application, it's
Speaker 2: like absolutely anything that we choose to do and how
Speaker 2: we choose to use it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I just wrote down a question,
Speaker 1: and my question was should we be scared of technology?
Speaker 1: And I'm just thinking like, at the very least cautious
Speaker 1: moving forward, you know, perhaps not scared, but just wary.
Speaker 1: Like I think about like I get three phone calls
Speaker 1: a week from my mum about something to something came
Speaker 1: through on her phone and this, and the bank wants
Speaker 1: this and this company said I you know, and it's like, Mum,
Speaker 1: you don't you know. That's like and I'm definitely not
Speaker 1: the tech guru, but for older people, and I mean older,
Speaker 1: older people in their eighties who you know, like Mum
Speaker 1: wants to go and pay bills with a check or cash, Like, Mum,
Speaker 1: you can't thank you thanks to actually getting rid of checks.
Speaker 2: I think one of the Big four recently said that
Speaker 2: we're not going to be using checks anymore.
Speaker 1: And it's it's really like we live in a world
Speaker 1: that does not accommodate older people, I mean people who
Speaker 1: are you know, technology is great, but it's it's now
Speaker 1: and I guess it's just it happens. That's just evolution
Speaker 1: and development and progress. But I don't know that all
Speaker 1: progress in inverted commas feels like progress for some people,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that, like, imagine if my
Speaker 1: mum and dad, or TIFF's dad, or TIFF's fucking granddad
Speaker 1: who's one hundred and one champion, what a gun. But
Speaker 1: imagine if these people didn't have younger people in their
Speaker 1: life who can kind of steer them and help them.
Speaker 1: Like my if my mum didn't have me, she I
Speaker 1: don't know what. She couldn't do it. She wouldn't know
Speaker 1: how to fucking do anything with that stuff, you know
Speaker 1: what I love? And I'm digressing a little bit.
Speaker 2: But places like neighborhood centers where you can drop in
Speaker 2: and they do tech support. You know, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of community based organizations. Do you know the Neighborhood Houses Association,
Speaker 2: so you know what a neighborhood house is?
Speaker 1: Community houses.
Speaker 2: They're all over Victoria. There are more neighborhood houses than
Speaker 2: there are McDonald's in Victoria.
Speaker 1: Isn't that? I don't even know what a neighborhood house is.
Speaker 1: I know you've spoken about it before, but what is it?
Speaker 2: It's a community organization, drop in center, they run courses.
Speaker 1: I teach it. A couple of neighborhood houses.
Speaker 2: I teach my Tai chi there, but basically they're usually
Speaker 2: an organization that's a not for profit run by a
Speaker 2: voluntary committee. They may have employed staff, but the Neighborhood
Speaker 2: Houses Association of Victoria basically they're all over the place.
Speaker 1: They have food banks a couple of the places.
Speaker 2: That I that I work at and also volunteer on
Speaker 2: the board of one of them.
Speaker 1: They are amazing.
Speaker 2: Generally they're run A lot of the work that's done
Speaker 2: is done by volunteers or people who are well intentioned.
Speaker 2: They're usually a low paid sector, so anybody working in
Speaker 2: the sector is doing it for the love of it,
Speaker 2: not for the money, that's for sure. But yeah, if
Speaker 2: you ever get a chance to go to a local
Speaker 2: neighborhood center or a neighborhood house, you could learn a
Speaker 2: new language, learn how to cook vegan food. You can
Speaker 2: do taichi or pilates or something. So they're all over
Speaker 2: the place. There'd be one right around the corner from you,
Speaker 2: Crego or tiff Well, I.
Speaker 1: Just them up and you're exactly right. So you just
Speaker 1: just go neighborhood houses and it's anyway NHVIC dot org.
Speaker 1: Find a neighborhood house and as Patrick suggests, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of them, A lot of them stacks stacks.
Speaker 2: I'm just going, oh, no, I just I mean last
Speaker 2: night I walked in to open the hall to do
Speaker 2: my taichi class, and whilst I was there, there was
Speaker 2: a polarate session on. There was a young guy who's
Speaker 2: an animator who was teaching kids how to draw cartoons,
Speaker 2: and then I was running my tai chie And that
Speaker 2: was just last night. So you know, it's awesome that,
Speaker 2: you know, you can engage with people from all different demographics,
Speaker 2: all different ages. I did a course of like a
Speaker 2: kind of a vegan cooking class the other day, which
Speaker 2: was kind of fun. Got this amazing meal cooked up
Speaker 2: and learned a few things. So yeah, it's great opportunities
Speaker 2: at neighborhood centers and look at me as if you
Speaker 2: add for neighborhood houses.
Speaker 1: If I've got a question for you, how many McDonald's
Speaker 1: restaurants do you think there are in Victoria? I mean,
Speaker 1: what would your guest be? By the way, Patrick, you
Speaker 1: were correct, so I'm not throwing you under the bus.
Speaker 1: How many? No, I was very surprised. How many do
Speaker 1: you think.
Speaker 3: Tif I wouldn't even know where to start to get.
Speaker 1: I would have said thousands. Yeah, I mean, I feel
Speaker 1: like there's fucking there's McDonald's everywhere. This seems wrong to me,
Speaker 1: but it must be right. So Patrick said there are
Speaker 1: more neighborhood houses than McDonald's, and my bullshit filter just went,
Speaker 1: nah's fuck, that's bunch kids, right, that's bullsh No, mate,
Speaker 1: I put up my hand when I'm wrong, and I'm
Speaker 1: wrong thirty seven times a day, so that's bullshit. And
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to say it. I just went, ah,
Speaker 1: four hundred, there are over four hundred neighborhood houses across Victoria.
Speaker 1: And then I've gone, how many McDonald's are there in Victoria?
Speaker 1: Two hundred and sixty. I'm like, I feel like there's
Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty within about ten gays in my house.
Speaker 1: That doesn't seem like enough. I mean, it is enough,
Speaker 1: by the way, more than enough. It's more than enough.
Speaker 1: Isn't that a song? Isn't that great? Though? I love
Speaker 1: that I did. That's amazing. I want to know about
Speaker 1: because I've thought about this. Turnages, teenagers turning to AI
Speaker 1: companions I feel like that that's good and bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, falling in love with a chatbot companionship.
Speaker 1: See, I'm in two minds about this.
Speaker 2: So a lot of teenagers are now interacting online with chatbots.
Speaker 2: You can talk to them, you can interact with them,
Speaker 2: you can get intimate, you can talk about your concerns,
Speaker 2: and you can have this ongoing relationship with an AI model.
Speaker 2: But the tragedy around this is there's been some really
Speaker 2: awful things that have happened, and there was a suicide
Speaker 2: of a fourteen year old boy who had built up
Speaker 2: this relationship with a chatbot that he'd created a persona
Speaker 2: around one of the characters from Game of Thrones, Danaris Targerian,
Speaker 2: and so he'd formed this relationship and in his mind
Speaker 2: it was a relationship. There was this interaction and the
Speaker 2: backstory to this is at one point he was talking
Speaker 2: about suicide and the chatbot kind of tried to talk
Speaker 2: him out of it, and then he brought it up
Speaker 2: again and it appeared, and I'm saying appeared. It appeared
Speaker 2: like the chatbot encouraged him, and as a tragic result,
Speaker 2: he ended up committing suicide. So it talks about and
Speaker 2: talks to the point that people can be manipulated, but
Speaker 2: they can also use I guess chatbots as an emotional
Speaker 2: crutch as well. And remember the story back from twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one where a guy, a nineteen year old guy
Speaker 2: broke into Buckingham Palace and was going to you know,
Speaker 2: stab the queen.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that? I do well.
Speaker 2: The backstory to that was he had a relationship with
Speaker 2: an emotional relationship with an AI chatbot, and I believe
Speaker 2: that the discussion around that was also discussed with the
Speaker 2: AI chatbot. So you know, when you think of oversight, well,
Speaker 2: is there any And I don't know. I can see
Speaker 2: where having an AI companion would be really reassuring for
Speaker 2: somebody who lived alone. I often talked to Fritz, but
Speaker 2: you know, having a chatbot where I mean, we talk
Speaker 2: about this on the show a few episodes ago, where
Speaker 2: I introduced an AI that I'd been chatting to and
Speaker 2: we had this fluid conversation. So it's not typing into
Speaker 2: a text prompt and waiting for a reply. It's having
Speaker 2: a deeper, meaningful, meaningful conversation with the AI is able
Speaker 2: to engage on that emotional level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I mean, it's crazy now the when I
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll just pick up my phone and ask chat
Speaker 1: GPT something. I'll talk verbally and it goes to American
Speaker 1: goes hey, Craig, great question, that would be really valuable
Speaker 1: with your work as a corporate speaker and in your
Speaker 1: research with new neural psychology. Yeah. So, and then it
Speaker 1: just starts talking can I help you with anything else?
Speaker 1: I'm like, nah, that's good. Thanks. It's like, okay, Craig,
Speaker 1: have a great day. I'm like, fucking hell, this is
Speaker 1: He's now one of my best friends, you know. So
Speaker 1: it's that. I mean, you think about we are just
Speaker 1: like if somebody's talking to you, say a narcissist or
Speaker 1: a sociopath, and it's all bullshit, it's all an act, right,
Speaker 1: we still respond as though, if we don't know, as
Speaker 1: though it's real, and so you know, even though it
Speaker 1: is not a human and even though the emotions might
Speaker 1: be emotions in inverted commas, programmed or not real. I mean,
Speaker 1: if your brain and your neurology and biology interprets it
Speaker 1: as though I am in a relationship, then for the individual,
Speaker 1: the teenager in this case, it is real as an experience.
Speaker 1: And that's that's powerful, right. If you think something's real
Speaker 1: but it's not real, like a dream and you wake
Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night, had this happened
Speaker 1: last week Whirias in the middle of something I can't remember,
Speaker 1: but I literally woke up and so I knew straight
Speaker 1: away that, oh, it's not real, But my body didn't
Speaker 1: know that for like another three minutes, because I could
Speaker 1: feel my blood pressure and I could feel my heart rate,
Speaker 1: and it's like your body cannot tell the difference between
Speaker 1: what is real and what you think is real. So
Speaker 1: your body just responds to your perception.
Speaker 2: And in this case, in space, yeah, yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 2: were there, but anyway, that's enough.
Speaker 1: But I think you were filming speaking of sex in space.
Speaker 1: I thought later after that that I thought, but you've
Speaker 1: got to get out of your fucking spacesuit. No, you
Speaker 1: don't wear a spacesuit inside the isis when Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 2: You just were jumping up against someone in a full spacesuit.
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, that'd be a yeah, that's going
Speaker 1: to crush it, all right, give us something else.
Speaker 2: Too much of a helmet is sealed off from the
Speaker 2: lower that's all I'm thinking. Yeah, Well, can we I
Speaker 2: mean the chatbot experience, So have we kind of done
Speaker 2: that to death? Or do you think you have a
Speaker 2: chatbot that I mean you're.
Speaker 1: Already using it. I love it. I love it. I
Speaker 1: don't want it to go away. I enjoy chatting to
Speaker 1: chat GPT.
Speaker 2: There are tens of millions of teenagers, it's believed using
Speaker 2: the romantic chatbots like engaging and forming relationships with chatbots.
Speaker 2: There are whole apps out there that are dedicated to
Speaker 2: getting people to form relationships. And you know, there's a
Speaker 2: crucial period I guess as you start to get older
Speaker 2: and mature when you form relationships, and part of that,
Speaker 2: I think preparing us for life is having a relationship
Speaker 2: that fails. You know, the first love isn't always going
Speaker 2: to be your first love in most cases. So if
Speaker 2: you're in an interactive, in depth relationship with a chatbot
Speaker 2: and you fall in love with it and they're always
Speaker 2: saying what you want to hear, then you never to
Speaker 2: experience the downside of the relationship. And if you're doing
Speaker 2: that in your formative views as a teenager, why do
Speaker 2: you need to find female or male or whatever companionship
Speaker 2: down the track?
Speaker 1: If you're getting everything from your AI, also think about
Speaker 1: may too. Sorry, So if it's like if they could
Speaker 1: build the perfect AI, whatever that means where you never
Speaker 1: get rejected. You know, I'm not saying this is a
Speaker 1: good idea, because rejection kind of forms us in a
Speaker 1: way or shapes us in a way. But just speaking
Speaker 1: of this, the other day, I got one of my
Speaker 1: whiteboard posts. If you don't follow me on Instagram, follow
Speaker 1: me on Instagram people, if you would, Craig Anthony Harper,
Speaker 1: that would be great. Anyway, you know how I put
Speaker 1: up all my whiteboard shit. So I put one of
Speaker 1: my typical whiteboard and I said, this is a sample
Speaker 1: of what I post as memes on my Instagram. Could
Speaker 1: you write something similar, you know, like anything, but in
Speaker 1: this style. And it wrote something and it was it
Speaker 1: was you know, it was a four out of ten.
Speaker 1: I went, yeah, I said, yeah kind of, I said,
Speaker 1: but it needs to be edgier. And then the third
Speaker 1: word was fuck that's you. Yeah. I'm like, wow, it
Speaker 1: caught on really quick, like it actually it like yeah,
Speaker 1: chat GPT wrote. I mean, it wasn't very good. There
Speaker 1: was swearing in it and stuff, but I was surprised
Speaker 1: that it would actually write with swearing. But given the
Speaker 1: right prompts, it does. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you know, the interesting thing to bear in mind
Speaker 2: is as we start to develop this interaction and we
Speaker 2: think about things like deep fake.
Speaker 1: So deep fake is where.
Speaker 2: You may be scammed when you get a phone call
Speaker 2: from someone and I think it's Craig, it sounds like Craig.
Speaker 2: But so whether it's an email that's purporting to be you,
Speaker 2: and now even more and more it could be potentially
Speaker 2: a video or phone call that sounds like you. But
Speaker 2: there was an interesting study that was done. A test
Speaker 2: of two thousand people was shown deep fake content. Now,
Speaker 2: of the two thousand, only two of them managed to
Speaker 2: pick the fakes to get a perfect to get a
Speaker 2: perfect score, only two. So it was a study by
Speaker 2: an organization called I Prove, and they were saying that
Speaker 2: AI literacy among the general public is depressingly low. Now,
Speaker 2: I know we always talk about older people that, and
Speaker 2: we know that older people struggle with deep fakes. They
Speaker 2: absolutely can't pick them. It's a really tough thing for
Speaker 2: people to understand what's fake and what isn't. But it's
Speaker 2: also widespread among wider the younger generation as well. So
Speaker 2: when you think about it, you know, out of that
Speaker 2: two thousand, zero point one percent of the participants, so
Speaker 2: two of them correctly distinguished between real and deep fake stimuli.
Speaker 1: That's a staggering that would have been across a range
Speaker 1: of different I mean, even just statistically, you'd get fifty
Speaker 1: to fifty. I mean there must have been a whole
Speaker 1: range of images or something. It was a whole lot,
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 2: But the study also found that older adults particularly susceptible,
Speaker 2: because thirty percent of people aged fifty five to sixty
Speaker 2: four in the study and thirty nine percent over sixty
Speaker 2: five had never even.
Speaker 1: Heard of deep fakes.
Speaker 2: So exactly the problem is they don't even know. So
Speaker 2: you're presenting something it's a fake. So it might be
Speaker 2: the Barack Obama thing. Do you remember the Barack Obama thing?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and you know Tom Cruise all that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: But it's getting scarily good and scarily it's also out
Speaker 2: there and attainable to anybody to use. It used to be,
Speaker 2: you know, companies that were restricted to having high end computers,
Speaker 2: but now these kind of deep fake models are really
Speaker 2: easy to access and easy to use. But you know
Speaker 2: what intrigued me about being scammed. I saw a quick
Speaker 2: article that I want to quickly mention that I think
Speaker 2: it was a group in Nigeria because we think of
Speaker 2: people who are scammers as bad people. I mean, for
Speaker 2: the most part, we think, well, you know, people are
Speaker 2: terrible who take part in scams. But the behind this
Speaker 2: about two hundred and sixty people were actually part of
Speaker 2: human trafficking and effectively real life slavery, and they've been
Speaker 2: rescued in Mianma. So this is a story that just
Speaker 2: came out a couple of weeks ago. And so there
Speaker 2: was a rebel group on the border of my Anma
Speaker 2: and they've been trying to shut down these scam operations.
Speaker 2: And what they did was they cut off the power
Speaker 2: supply and then they liberated two hundred and sixty people
Speaker 2: who'd been taken from twenty different nations, including one hundred
Speaker 2: and thirty eight Ethiopians, who were effectively taken into slavery
Speaker 2: to runt to work in these scam centers.
Speaker 1: So, you know, it's not just well, I think if
Speaker 1: you can scam, if you can scam the scammer Patrick, it's.
Speaker 2: You know, but what I'm saying is the scammers aren't
Speaker 2: necessarily people who want to scam. You know, this is
Speaker 2: born out the fact that they're talking about taking people,
Speaker 2: abducting them and making them work in scam sets.
Speaker 1: This is a double like, it's doubly worse.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: But what I mean is I mean is if we
Speaker 1: can use the same process or technology to trap bad
Speaker 1: guys or bad girls like to crooks and criminals. And
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's what it's coming to as well,
Speaker 1: isn't it, Because like the crooks are not dumb anymore,
Speaker 1: like the criminals are using advanced technology to commit crimes
Speaker 1: and to manipulate and do harm, then then the law
Speaker 1: enforcement agencies need to be one step ahead. And it's tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're absolutely right, because you know, if you think
Speaker 2: about it, once upon a time, walking into a bank
Speaker 2: the gun was a pretty dangerous affair because you know,
Speaker 2: potentially you're going to get caught pretty easily with arms
Speaker 2: and all that sort of stuff. But if you can
Speaker 2: do it from the comfort of your own lounge room
Speaker 2: or a data center somewhere in another country, you're almost
Speaker 2: immune to getting found.
Speaker 1: That's the reality. I remember, like about a year ago, mum,
Speaker 1: Mum got, you know, some dude on the phone just
Speaker 1: talking to her and knew a fair bit about her.
Speaker 1: And that doesn't make sense to somebody who's eighty five. Well,
Speaker 1: it must be legitimate because he knows all of these
Speaker 1: things and those send moms, so Mum's like wanting to
Speaker 1: be polite, and then you know, thank god, she didn't
Speaker 1: give him any information that would allow him to rip
Speaker 1: her off, but she almost did. And it's you know,
Speaker 1: to older people and even people who just don't really
Speaker 1: understand it, not necessarily older, but yeah, when someone's on
Speaker 1: the phone and they're articulate and they're talking you and
Speaker 1: they sound like they could be from a legitimate organization,
Speaker 1: and you know, good morning, missus Harper, and it's fucking terrifying.
Speaker 2: And I think some of the bigger organizations need to
Speaker 2: change their policies as well. I think you know where
Speaker 2: we upload our information to. I recently changed banks. I
Speaker 2: had a bit of a run in with my one
Speaker 2: of the big four banks because I've been banking with
Speaker 2: them for over at least over twelve years, and they
Speaker 2: asked me to upload my ID to confirm who I was.
Speaker 1: And I said, well, i've been with you for twelve years.
Speaker 2: I've got access to my account and they said, no, no,
Speaker 2: you need to prove who you are. You need to
Speaker 2: upload your driver's license. One hundred points of ID. I said, well,
Speaker 2: where did that go if I uploaded? They said, well,
Speaker 2: we need to verify who you are. So well, I
Speaker 2: can go to my bank branch and I'm happy to
Speaker 2: show my ID to the bank manager to prove who
Speaker 2: I am. And I said, They said yeah, but that
Speaker 2: would then be recorded. Well, said, I don't want it
Speaker 2: to be recorded. I don't want you to have my license,
Speaker 2: my passport, my one hundred points of identifications stilled on
Speaker 2: a database somewhere, because I've been a customer, you know,
Speaker 2: for all this time, for over a decade, and they
Speaker 2: just said, well that your bank, you're not going to
Speaker 2: have full access to your account, to your own accounts
Speaker 2: if you don't verify who you are. I understand that
Speaker 2: there needs to be oversight, and they understand that. You know, obviously,
Speaker 2: we need to be really stringent with proving who we are.
Speaker 2: Biometrics helps and the way that a lot of the
Speaker 2: banks are now getting better with storing our information.
Speaker 1: But when you're an existing customer.
Speaker 2: And you're told they don't believe you are who you are,
Speaker 2: that was disconcerting. So I like walking into my local branch.
Speaker 2: I know all the members of the staff and say
Speaker 2: a load to the manager. So when you were talking
Speaker 2: about your mum earlier being forced into doing online banking
Speaker 2: or whatever, I think you know, bank with your feet,
Speaker 2: walk into a branch. If you're not happy with your
Speaker 2: current bank, go and find one that you are happy
Speaker 2: with that will allow you to do transactions over the counter,
Speaker 2: that will say, hey, missus Harper, it's nice to see you.
Speaker 1: You know that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: There are local community branches of different banks where you
Speaker 2: will get a better reception if you can speak to
Speaker 2: human being. And I think we need to encourage that.
Speaker 2: We need to not go through the automatic checkout. You know,
Speaker 2: for a lot of older people, they don't want to
Speaker 2: scan the grocery items themselves. They want to speak to
Speaker 2: someone who's had a checkout, have a conversation with them,
Speaker 2: hand their groceries over, and feel confident that they're still
Speaker 2: also encouraging someone to.
Speaker 1: Get a job. I mean, I don't know about you guys.
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes it's convenient if there's a big queue
Speaker 2: to go through the self checkout, But I don't ever
Speaker 2: want a checkout to disappear because I was a checkout
Speaker 2: chick when I was a kid, you know, I worked
Speaker 2: at a supermarket for a couple of years at Cohl's,
Speaker 2: and you know, it.
Speaker 1: Was a great experience.
Speaker 2: You've got a lot of experience and confidence, and I
Speaker 2: think that it's a great learning environment for young people
Speaker 2: as well as people who work in a full time
Speaker 2: career in that sort of service industry.
Speaker 1: And I just recommend based off the back of that.
Speaker 1: There's a movie that's very cute. It's not like that,
Speaker 1: it's not going to blow your head off, but it's cute.
Speaker 1: It's like a good Friday night movie or whatever. It's
Speaker 1: called The Bank of Dave. Oh okay, yep, The Bank
Speaker 1: of Dave. It's quite cute and it's like a guy
Speaker 1: in a rural area and it's based on a true
Speaker 1: story and he's a really smart guy and he doesn't
Speaker 1: want like he sets it up for the community for
Speaker 1: people who can't get loans and it's yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: his fight against the big banks and they're all these dirty, rotten,
Speaker 1: bloody Yeah. It's so interesting. Yeah. Bank of Dave twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three. Hey, mate, it's pretty great. Go on, did
Speaker 1: you want to do one more? No? No, it's my last
Speaker 1: little thing.
Speaker 2: Was I think as consumers we need to be more proactive.
Speaker 2: So what I mean by that is knowwhere your T
Speaker 2: shirt has been made, you know, you know, buying Australian
Speaker 2: made and supporting Australian industry. Yes, you're going to pay more,
Speaker 2: but you're going to get better quality and it's going
Speaker 2: to last longer. And I think we all fall victim
Speaker 2: to saying, you know, I'm going to get the you know,
Speaker 2: the seven dollars fifty T shirt. But if that's dollar
Speaker 2: fifty T shirt was made in a sweatshop, then you're
Speaker 2: perpetuating that that system.
Speaker 1: You know, upcycling is really great. I love to upcycle.
Speaker 2: I think the probably my favorite three T shirts I
Speaker 2: bought it op shops. And I don't want to sound
Speaker 2: like a tight ass, but I feel that if we
Speaker 2: know where things are coming from. I proudly wear Australian
Speaker 2: made jocks. I won't show you, but I can tell
Speaker 2: you that they're Australian made, and I know they're made
Speaker 2: here and they're comfortable.
Speaker 1: Not like I haven't seen them, oh jeez no, but
Speaker 1: it's great to know.
Speaker 2: And I think that you know, in terms of those
Speaker 2: sorts of you know, whether it's garments or whatever, it
Speaker 2: happens to mean, it's a shame we can't buy an
Speaker 2: Australian car anymore.
Speaker 1: But the reality of it.
Speaker 2: Is the more we support industries where we know where
Speaker 2: they're coming from.
Speaker 1: Fair trade coffee.
Speaker 2: You know, when you go to a cafe, do you
Speaker 2: know that that coffee, the beans that are sourced are
Speaker 2: coming from ethical you know, organizations that support the suppliers
Speaker 2: and the farmers to perpetuate the cycle of having you know,
Speaker 2: good quality pay and wages and standards.
Speaker 1: Very valid, my friend, very valid. All right? Where can
Speaker 1: people connect with Patrick James Bonello and his skills.
Speaker 2: You can jump onto websites now dot com today you
Speaker 2: to find out about what I do.
Speaker 1: Obviously websites and stuff.
Speaker 2: But if you want to do some free tie chi exercises,
Speaker 2: go to tai Chi at home dot com today you
Speaker 2: that's also kind of fun. I should be updating that
Speaker 2: sometimes soon with new exercises and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Thanks tip. What's on for you today, tiv.
Speaker 3: I've got an appointment, I've got a podcast, I've got
Speaker 3: a group training session, and I've got a little online meeting.
Speaker 1: I've got I've got a bit on early.
Speaker 3: It doesn't feel like a busy day, but when I
Speaker 3: started to list it, I was like, oh.
Speaker 1: I've got a bit on all right. Everyone. Thanks everyone,
Speaker 1: love you, guts Is, thanks Mate, Thanks TIV, thank you