1 00:00:03,460 --> 00:00:07,690 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. We've now been 2 00:00:07,690 --> 00:00:11,049 Sean Aylmer: living with the COVID- 19 pandemic for more than 18 months. 3 00:00:11,100 --> 00:00:15,810 Sean Aylmer: We've seen lockdowns, government stimulus, border closures, new variants, rising 4 00:00:15,810 --> 00:00:20,220 Sean Aylmer: infections, and at last vaccinations. Now that there's light at 5 00:00:20,220 --> 00:00:22,340 Sean Aylmer: the end of the tunnel, I wanted to look at 6 00:00:22,340 --> 00:00:25,300 Sean Aylmer: how safe the share market is from a COVID induced 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,080 Sean Aylmer: crash. Roger Montgomery is the Founder and Chief Investment Officer 8 00:00:29,270 --> 00:00:32,120 Sean Aylmer: of Montgomery Investment Management. Roger, welcome back to Fear and Greed! 9 00:00:32,630 --> 00:00:33,370 Roger Montgomery: Our pleasure to be with the show. 10 00:00:33,371 --> 00:00:37,320 Sean Aylmer: With the vaccination rate increasing every day, can we be 11 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,710 Sean Aylmer: more confident that a COVID crash is in the revision mirror? 12 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:45,769 Roger Montgomery: Well, the short answer is no. You've got to remember 13 00:00:45,770 --> 00:00:50,530 Roger Montgomery: that while we're accelerating vaccinations in Australia, and there are other 14 00:00:50,530 --> 00:00:54,330 Roger Montgomery: countries in the world with high vaccination rates, only just over 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:59,010 Roger Montgomery: 30% of the world's population is vaccinated. And what that 16 00:00:59,010 --> 00:01:03,360 Roger Montgomery: means is that there's still roughly 70% of the world's 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:08,140 Roger Montgomery: population that are providing a host for the virus to 18 00:01:08,140 --> 00:01:12,810 Roger Montgomery: mutate, and potentially mutate into a variant that it can 19 00:01:12,810 --> 00:01:17,470 Roger Montgomery: evade current vaccines. On top of that, we've also got 20 00:01:17,470 --> 00:01:21,230 Roger Montgomery: a situation where we know the efficacy of the vaccines 21 00:01:21,930 --> 00:01:26,770 Roger Montgomery: declined precipitously within six months. So at six months, some 22 00:01:26,770 --> 00:01:29,810 Roger Montgomery: of the vaccines really have only close to 50% efficacy, 23 00:01:29,810 --> 00:01:32,810 Roger Montgomery: which means the population not only has to be fully 24 00:01:32,810 --> 00:01:38,780 Roger Montgomery: vaccinated, but maintain that high vaccination level in order to 25 00:01:38,860 --> 00:01:42,780 Roger Montgomery: live with some protection from current strains of the virus. 26 00:01:44,450 --> 00:01:49,640 Roger Montgomery: That's the negative outlook. The positive outlook is, I guess, 27 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:54,370 Roger Montgomery: more nuanced and it comes back to more financial matters. 28 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,760 Roger Montgomery: For example, one concern is that the bond market is 29 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,870 Roger Montgomery: overvalued and due for a crash. My response to that 30 00:02:03,950 --> 00:02:09,060 Roger Montgomery: is that if you look at US bond rates, they 31 00:02:09,130 --> 00:02:13,680 Roger Montgomery: are, even at current rates, much more attractive than the 32 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,750 Roger Montgomery: negative rates on offer from Japan and Europe. And so, 33 00:02:18,090 --> 00:02:23,210 Roger Montgomery: there's a positive arbitrage or positive attraction to US bonds 34 00:02:23,530 --> 00:02:27,610 Roger Montgomery: that would potentially prevent a crash. The other argument is 35 00:02:27,700 --> 00:02:29,760 Roger Montgomery: to do with the short end of the yield curve. 36 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,669 Roger Montgomery: And that is that US federal reserve and the RBA 37 00:02:33,669 --> 00:02:37,609 Roger Montgomery: might raise rates. Well today, we had Governor Lowe, Philip 38 00:02:37,610 --> 00:02:43,630 Roger Montgomery: Lowe from the RBA, indicate that the very patchy nature 39 00:02:43,630 --> 00:02:46,930 Roger Montgomery: of the recovery in Australia means that rates aren't likely 40 00:02:46,930 --> 00:02:52,669 Roger Montgomery: to rise until 2024. In the United States, the fed 41 00:02:52,669 --> 00:02:56,970 Roger Montgomery: could raise rates four times and you would still have 42 00:02:56,970 --> 00:03:01,970 Roger Montgomery: negative real rates. With negative real rates, that makes equities 43 00:03:01,970 --> 00:03:06,210 Roger Montgomery: much more attractive. So there's a lot of reasons to 44 00:03:06,210 --> 00:03:11,520 Roger Montgomery: believe that the arguments for a crash are weak, they're 45 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,540 Roger Montgomery: not strong. And the other thing I'd say is that 46 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,050 Roger Montgomery: crashes usually occur when something unexpected happens. So none of 47 00:03:19,060 --> 00:03:22,530 Roger Montgomery: the scenarios that I've talked to you about are new 48 00:03:22,530 --> 00:03:25,840 Roger Montgomery: to the market. And so, I don't think there's a 49 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,919 Roger Montgomery: reason to expect to crash imminently. 50 00:03:28,970 --> 00:03:32,570 Sean Aylmer: I just got a question a little bit more on that. It's the World Health Organization 51 00:03:32,570 --> 00:03:35,410 Sean Aylmer: argument that the rich countries are vaccinated, the poor countries 52 00:03:35,410 --> 00:03:39,350 Sean Aylmer: aren't vaccinated. And so exactly what you just said, unless everyone is 53 00:03:39,350 --> 00:03:44,040 Sean Aylmer: vaccinated, you have a high chance of mutations, which could 54 00:03:44,270 --> 00:03:47,190 Sean Aylmer: basically avoid vaccines. I mean, they work their way around 55 00:03:47,190 --> 00:03:50,940 Sean Aylmer: it. Is that not a black swan event? Is that 56 00:03:50,940 --> 00:03:52,820 Sean Aylmer: not something out of the ordinary? 57 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,320 Roger Montgomery: Sure, that scenario would be, but at this stage we're 58 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,260 Roger Montgomery: aware of some variants that exist already. There's another variant 59 00:04:01,260 --> 00:04:04,730 Roger Montgomery: in South Africa, for example, that spread to other countries 60 00:04:04,730 --> 00:04:07,690 Roger Montgomery: in Africa. But at the moment, it's not considered a 61 00:04:07,690 --> 00:04:11,150 Roger Montgomery: variant of concern and not even a variant of interest. 62 00:04:11,660 --> 00:04:14,070 Roger Montgomery: So you get a lot of variants that develop and 63 00:04:14,070 --> 00:04:16,880 Roger Montgomery: we've captured, I think, we're heading towards a hundred different 64 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,700 Roger Montgomery: variants now. And correct me if I'm wrong on that 65 00:04:19,700 --> 00:04:22,550 Roger Montgomery: stat, but we've had a lot of variants and many 66 00:04:22,550 --> 00:04:25,460 Roger Montgomery: of them amount to nothing. It's only if they are more 67 00:04:25,460 --> 00:04:30,480 Roger Montgomery: communicable or more aggressive and they start spreading that they 68 00:04:30,490 --> 00:04:33,820 Roger Montgomery: become a variant of interest or a variant of concern. At the 69 00:04:33,820 --> 00:04:36,849 Roger Montgomery: moment, that's not the case. Look, if it transpired, we 70 00:04:36,850 --> 00:04:40,350 Roger Montgomery: could get another correction, particularly if the market started to 71 00:04:40,350 --> 00:04:43,349 Roger Montgomery: think that it's going to send us back to square 72 00:04:43,350 --> 00:04:46,440 Roger Montgomery: one. And if it is a variant that evades current 73 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,860 Roger Montgomery: vaccine, so not only is it more transmissible or more 74 00:04:49,860 --> 00:04:53,720 Roger Montgomery: aggressive, but the current crop of vaccines don't do anything 75 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,589 Roger Montgomery: to protect you from it, that would be a black 76 00:04:56,589 --> 00:05:00,360 Roger Montgomery: swan. That would cause another market correction. And a bigger 77 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,839 Roger Montgomery: one than the first one, arguably, because in many sectors 78 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,550 Roger Montgomery: of the market, valuations are more stretched than they were 79 00:05:06,910 --> 00:05:09,020 Roger Montgomery: before the first COVID outbreak. 80 00:05:09,550 --> 00:05:13,290 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And, but on all probability, that's less likely than 81 00:05:13,290 --> 00:05:17,040 Sean Aylmer: the market with, well, it may not necessarily rise strongly, 82 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,680 Sean Aylmer: but it shouldn't tumble too hard. 83 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,520 Roger Montgomery: Well, I think it pays investors to be optimists, right? I'm a 84 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,210 Roger Montgomery: glass half full guy. So I will... Put a gun 85 00:05:25,210 --> 00:05:26,940 Roger Montgomery: to my head and force me to choose, I'm going 86 00:05:26,940 --> 00:05:28,770 Roger Montgomery: to choose that we'll get through this. 87 00:05:28,970 --> 00:05:31,350 Sean Aylmer: Yep. Stay with me, Roger. We'll be back in a minute. 88 00:05:36,610 --> 00:05:39,230 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Roger Montgomery, Founder and Chief 89 00:05:39,230 --> 00:05:43,659 Sean Aylmer: Investment Officer of Montgomery Investment Management. There's been some pretty 90 00:05:43,660 --> 00:05:46,370 Sean Aylmer: big deals, recently. Sydney Airport is obviously the big one. 91 00:05:46,370 --> 00:05:49,300 Sean Aylmer: If you include debt, that's worth about $32 billion. You've 92 00:05:49,300 --> 00:05:51,789 Sean Aylmer: got Oil Search and Santos, which I think it's $21 93 00:05:51,790 --> 00:05:55,210 Sean Aylmer: billion or thereabouts. Afterpay is being sold to Square. You've 94 00:05:55,210 --> 00:05:59,410 Sean Aylmer: got Woodside, BHP going on. What's that telling you about 95 00:05:59,410 --> 00:06:02,250 Sean Aylmer: the market at the moment, these massive deals and apart 96 00:06:02,250 --> 00:06:04,370 Sean Aylmer: from the Westfield sale a few years back, I think 97 00:06:04,370 --> 00:06:05,910 Sean Aylmer: they're probably the biggest deals we've had. 98 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,169 Roger Montgomery: Yeah. So I wrote about this two years ago in 99 00:06:10,170 --> 00:06:12,840 Roger Montgomery: The Australian and said that this was going to happen, and then 100 00:06:13,170 --> 00:06:18,170 Roger Montgomery: in November last year, and in February this year, I again, 101 00:06:18,230 --> 00:06:20,779 Roger Montgomery: forecast that we'd see a huge wave of M& A 102 00:06:21,110 --> 00:06:24,559 Roger Montgomery: or mergers and acquisitions activity. The reason I said that, 103 00:06:24,990 --> 00:06:27,840 Roger Montgomery: the reason I expected it would happen is, number one, 104 00:06:28,140 --> 00:06:31,250 Roger Montgomery: interest rates are very, very low. And in that environment, 105 00:06:31,250 --> 00:06:35,710 Roger Montgomery: money is cheap. Number two, the higher the market goes 106 00:06:35,710 --> 00:06:38,789 Roger Montgomery: the greater the risk of some sort of setback, it 107 00:06:39,550 --> 00:06:42,660 Roger Montgomery: doesn't matter how big that setback is, but it crimps 108 00:06:42,660 --> 00:06:46,060 Roger Montgomery: your returns. So what I expected would happen is that 109 00:06:46,060 --> 00:06:50,670 Roger Montgomery: as the market went higher, professional investors, particularly pension farmers, 110 00:06:51,070 --> 00:06:54,930 Roger Montgomery: would want to increase their weighting to a less volatile 111 00:06:54,940 --> 00:06:59,839 Roger Montgomery: asset class. And that less volatile asset classes in the alternative 112 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:04,729 Roger Montgomery: space is private equity and unlisted businesses. And so you've seen, 113 00:07:04,730 --> 00:07:08,849 Roger Montgomery: for example, a future fund raise to about 17. 5% 114 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,700 Roger Montgomery: their allocation to unlisted businesses or private equity and venture capital. 115 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,710 Roger Montgomery: You can come up with all sorts of fancy excuses 116 00:07:17,710 --> 00:07:19,370 Roger Montgomery: for why they're doing it, but the bottom line is 117 00:07:19,370 --> 00:07:22,580 Roger Montgomery: those assets aren't back to market. They're not priced on 118 00:07:22,580 --> 00:07:26,460 Roger Montgomery: a daily basis, so they show much smoother returns. So 119 00:07:26,460 --> 00:07:28,730 Roger Montgomery: in the event of a market crash, you don't participate 120 00:07:28,730 --> 00:07:31,790 Roger Montgomery: in that crash because your valuations are based on the 121 00:07:31,790 --> 00:07:37,350 Roger Montgomery: last capital raising amount. And provided you're invested in reasonably 122 00:07:37,350 --> 00:07:41,170 Roger Montgomery: solid businesses or exciting businesses that people are attracted to, 123 00:07:41,470 --> 00:07:43,650 Roger Montgomery: every time they raise money, it's at a higher amount. 124 00:07:43,650 --> 00:07:47,250 Roger Montgomery: So you can look like your portfolio is rising, even 125 00:07:47,250 --> 00:07:50,570 Roger Montgomery: though arguably the business isn't making a profit, it's not really worth anything. 126 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,100 Roger Montgomery: But because other people are willing to pay more for it, 127 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,720 Roger Montgomery: it just keeps going up. Because of that lack of 128 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,280 Roger Montgomery: mark to market, you're not marking those assets every day 129 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,810 Roger Montgomery: to a market price, they look less volatile. So that 130 00:08:01,810 --> 00:08:05,330 Roger Montgomery: would make them more attractive to pension funds. And then 131 00:08:05,330 --> 00:08:10,390 Roger Montgomery: the third reason is that all around the world, investors, 132 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,100 Roger Montgomery: maybe not so much in Australia, but in Europe particularly, 133 00:08:14,300 --> 00:08:17,420 Roger Montgomery: investors are getting very, very low returns, negative returns in 134 00:08:17,420 --> 00:08:21,000 Roger Montgomery: some cases. And so the pension funds that they invest 135 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,870 Roger Montgomery: in are very happy with a 2% return or a 2. 5% return, 136 00:08:26,380 --> 00:08:29,180 Roger Montgomery: because it's a darn sight better than zero or a negative return. 137 00:08:30,290 --> 00:08:33,960 Roger Montgomery: And here in Australia, we've got reasonably stable businesses. They're 138 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:38,729 Roger Montgomery: not particularly exciting, but they're stable, they're even growing slightly. 139 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,179 Roger Montgomery: And they're priced on an earnings yield of 4% or 4. 5% 140 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,040 Roger Montgomery: while a pension fund could pay double for that business 141 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,699 Roger Montgomery: and still give its members a 2. 5% return. That's 142 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:53,449 Roger Montgomery: still very attractive. And so that means that a lot 143 00:08:53,450 --> 00:08:56,590 Roger Montgomery: of our listed businesses are attractive to pension funds and 144 00:08:56,590 --> 00:09:01,010 Roger Montgomery: super funds because of those stable incomes and the relatively 145 00:09:01,010 --> 00:09:04,059 Roger Montgomery: attractive earnings yield compared to what they can offer their 146 00:09:04,059 --> 00:09:08,130 Roger Montgomery: members from other investments and what their members are receiving elsewhere. 147 00:09:08,630 --> 00:09:11,610 Sean Aylmer: Is that a good thing, the power of those pension funds? 148 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,689 Roger Montgomery: Well, it's... To the extent it's a good question because 149 00:09:15,690 --> 00:09:18,590 Roger Montgomery: it's a difficult one to answer. To the extent that they're offering their 150 00:09:18,670 --> 00:09:23,110 Roger Montgomery: members a better return or a better yield, yes. And if 151 00:09:23,110 --> 00:09:26,429 Roger Montgomery: they take these businesses private, they're no longer listed. They 152 00:09:26,429 --> 00:09:29,670 Roger Montgomery: only care about the operating performance of the business. They don't care about 153 00:09:30,030 --> 00:09:33,209 Roger Montgomery: what the share market's doing. So it sort of smooths 154 00:09:33,210 --> 00:09:36,580 Roger Montgomery: out returns from a capital perspective for their members. And 155 00:09:36,590 --> 00:09:37,989 Roger Montgomery: they're getting a reliable income stream. 156 00:09:37,990 --> 00:09:39,390 Sean Aylmer: Yep. Fair enough. 157 00:09:40,220 --> 00:09:43,190 Roger Montgomery: If they wanted to then sell that business in the future, 158 00:09:43,190 --> 00:09:45,699 Roger Montgomery: that might be a risky proposition because they might not 159 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:48,550 Roger Montgomery: get the same price. But if they're holding it to maturity, 160 00:09:48,550 --> 00:09:51,059 Roger Montgomery: inverted commas, you know they're holding it forever and the 161 00:09:51,059 --> 00:09:54,450 Roger Montgomery: businesses has a sustainable business model, then it's fine. 162 00:09:54,450 --> 00:09:57,250 Sean Aylmer: Just while I've got you, I do just want to talk about 163 00:09:57,250 --> 00:09:59,309 Sean Aylmer: the oil and gas industry for a moment. So Oil 164 00:09:59,309 --> 00:10:03,240 Sean Aylmer: Search and Santos are merging, and Kevin Gallagher, the boss 165 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,849 Sean Aylmer: of Santos who will be in charge of the new 166 00:10:04,850 --> 00:10:08,540 Sean Aylmer: entity, he actually said they needed size so that they 167 00:10:08,540 --> 00:10:14,490 Sean Aylmer: can transition to a cleaner company. BHP's oil and gas 168 00:10:14,490 --> 00:10:18,300 Sean Aylmer: and Woodside coming together. Yesterday, BHP's annual report came out 169 00:10:18,300 --> 00:10:20,179 Sean Aylmer: and talked about the cost of stranded assets and put 170 00:10:20,179 --> 00:10:23,390 Sean Aylmer: a value on that. That oil and gas, not withstanding 171 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,760 Sean Aylmer: oil prices getting pretty high and gas prices are through 172 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,850 Sean Aylmer: the roof, you're still not seeing that in the valuations of 173 00:10:28,850 --> 00:10:31,780 Sean Aylmer: those companies. Is it that investors are worried that if 174 00:10:31,780 --> 00:10:34,740 Sean Aylmer: they invest in some of these stocks, they end up 175 00:10:34,740 --> 00:10:36,760 Sean Aylmer: owning assets which eventually are stranded. 176 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,280 Roger Montgomery: If you believe that the ESG or Environmental Social Governance 177 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:47,590 Roger Montgomery: investing Tidal Wave is permanent, then yes, there is a 178 00:10:47,590 --> 00:10:51,579 Roger Montgomery: risk that these are business that nobody wants, and therefore their 179 00:10:51,580 --> 00:10:56,130 Roger Montgomery: evaluations drop. But in the case of Australian listed oil 180 00:10:56,130 --> 00:11:01,650 Roger Montgomery: producers or oil explorers and so forth, they CAM capital expenditure. 181 00:11:01,650 --> 00:11:05,599 Roger Montgomery: There's a lot of cap- ex needed to maintain and 182 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:10,120 Roger Montgomery: upgrade the asset base. And so I think that's a 183 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,950 Roger Montgomery: primary reason why a recovery in the oil price, or be it 184 00:11:14,620 --> 00:11:20,200 Roger Montgomery: from temporary negative prices, that's why we've not seen the 185 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,870 Roger Montgomery: share process for these businesses as highly correlated as you 186 00:11:23,870 --> 00:11:27,110 Roger Montgomery: would normally expect. They just CAM capital expenditure. 187 00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:30,950 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So potentially, it could be a rough couple of 188 00:11:30,950 --> 00:11:32,920 Sean Aylmer: years, but there's still a future for some of these 189 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,060 Sean Aylmer: companies if they can invest that money. 190 00:11:35,470 --> 00:11:39,010 Roger Montgomery: Yeah, look at what's happening with BHP. You have a 191 00:11:39,010 --> 00:11:43,420 Roger Montgomery: situation where they're selling some assets, and even that's not 192 00:11:43,420 --> 00:11:47,390 Roger Montgomery: good enough for some investors. Some investors are actually calling 193 00:11:47,390 --> 00:11:50,699 Roger Montgomery: for BHP to mothball these things or shut them down, 194 00:11:51,010 --> 00:11:54,160 Roger Montgomery: decommission them. Selling them to somebody else doesn't solve the 195 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:59,070 Roger Montgomery: environmental problem. It just permits somebody else to produce that issue. 196 00:11:59,580 --> 00:12:03,610 Roger Montgomery: So this ESG movement, it's already gained a lot of traction. 197 00:12:03,660 --> 00:12:05,959 Roger Montgomery: And I think there's merit in a lot of the 198 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,010 Roger Montgomery: ESG movement. I think some of the arguments are difficult 199 00:12:10,010 --> 00:12:13,929 Roger Montgomery: to answer, and that's why I'm sounding a little bit circumspect. 200 00:12:14,510 --> 00:12:17,980 Roger Montgomery: And that's because, for example, I know that my clients 201 00:12:17,980 --> 00:12:20,920 Roger Montgomery: would not want me to invest in a gun manufacturer, 202 00:12:21,460 --> 00:12:24,780 Roger Montgomery: a weapons manufacturer. And yet if you ask many of 203 00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:27,980 Roger Montgomery: my clients, would they want our military to be armed 204 00:12:27,980 --> 00:12:31,140 Roger Montgomery: if we were invaded by China, for example, they would 205 00:12:31,140 --> 00:12:35,170 Roger Montgomery: unequivocally say yes. That means you have to manufacture weapons. 206 00:12:35,429 --> 00:12:39,190 Roger Montgomery: So on a superficial level, it seems quite easy. ESG, 207 00:12:40,270 --> 00:12:43,290 Roger Montgomery: it makes perfect sense. And yet when you dig a 208 00:12:43,570 --> 00:12:46,730 Roger Montgomery: little bit deeper, you realise it raises lots of quite 209 00:12:46,730 --> 00:12:47,709 Roger Montgomery: difficult questions. 210 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,240 Sean Aylmer: Roger, a topic for another day. Thank you for talking 211 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:51,410 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed this morning. 212 00:12:51,730 --> 00:12:52,030 Roger Montgomery: A pleasure. 213 00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:55,390 Sean Aylmer: That was Roger Montgomery, the Founder and Chief Investment Officer 214 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,500 Sean Aylmer: of Montgomery Investment Management. This is the Fear and Greed 215 00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:00,900 Sean Aylmer: Daily Interview. Join me every morning for the full Fear 216 00:13:01,059 --> 00:13:03,459 Sean Aylmer: and Greed Podcast with all the business news you need 217 00:13:03,460 --> 00:13:05,950 Sean Aylmer: to know. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.