Speaker 1: She said, it's now never.
Speaker 2: I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 3: I'm tiff This is role with the punches and we're
Speaker 3: turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
Speaker 3: to court, and don't. My friends at test Art Family
Speaker 3: Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Speaker 3: Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
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Speaker 3: reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
Speaker 3: test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Cray, Anthony Harfer, Tiffany
Speaker 3: and Corkierie is Happy Wednesday, sir.
Speaker 1: Thanks Bro, Thanks Bryce Sephine. That are you good?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: I'm great.
Speaker 3: I just had a great sparring session with someone with
Speaker 3: two percent vision, So that was that was the highlight
Speaker 3: of my day.
Speaker 1: That's not the perfect opponent. How do you walk us
Speaker 1: through that a little bit? How does one spa with
Speaker 1: somebody who can't see? Do you have bells on your gloves?
Speaker 3: Well, here's the deal, I thought to myself. I haven't
Speaker 3: sparred since last years. I've barely picked up the boxing gloves,
Speaker 3: to be honest. So I was like, oh, not really,
Speaker 3: you know, I haven't been doing it, but yeah, sure,
Speaker 3: if there's anyone i'll say yes to. It's a blind guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, reason, we'll shout out to our vision impeded listeners.
Speaker 1: And if you think just being insensitive, she.
Speaker 3: Is, well no, right, I thought, well this, you know,
Speaker 3: this can't be too dangerous. I did put a mouthguard
Speaker 3: in though, but nothing quite sticks to you like shit
Speaker 3: to a blanket. Then one that can't see but has
Speaker 3: keen other senses. I could not shake that bugger. It
Speaker 3: was right there. In fact, there was only one time
Speaker 3: I was quiet enough to sneak around and he was
Speaker 3: like like a ninja, going where is she? The rest
Speaker 3: of the time He's right that. The rest of the
Speaker 3: time you would not if you were watching on you
Speaker 3: wouldn't know you were watching one vision impaired person sparring.
Speaker 1: I mean, could you try to explain it to us?
Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out how does so he's not
Speaker 1: a boxer, right.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, So this is they've got an event
Speaker 3: in a couple of weeks it's up in Queensland. It's
Speaker 3: a bunch of podcasters actually, and they wanted to find
Speaker 3: two blind podcasters to have this fight at this event.
Speaker 1: And that just seems that sunms cruel they.
Speaker 3: Could find one, so they've made it even more crazy.
Speaker 3: They're putting seven blokes in the ring, six of them
Speaker 3: being blindfolded, and Benny, who's two percent vision, and they're
Speaker 3: just gonna let him go for gold. So he brings
Speaker 3: me up a week ago, goes, I haven't actually done
Speaker 3: any sparring. Could you punch me in the face? And
Speaker 3: I said sure, sure, think sure. Think he was really good,
Speaker 3: actually really good. There's I think that there is a
Speaker 3: lot that can be an advantage about not having vision
Speaker 3: when you're learning things with your other senses. When you're
Speaker 3: like his hair, his gloves are stuck to his face,
Speaker 3: he's not getting you know, when our eyes go places,
Speaker 3: it affects our balance. Just there's a lot of information
Speaker 3: coming in when you're boxing, you're moving, you're watching, you're protecting,
Speaker 3: you're feeling things, you're seeing things, depth, perception, all of
Speaker 3: that stuff. His head doesn't lift twenty punches because he's
Speaker 3: not following his eyes anywhere, So he stays down, he holds.
Speaker 3: It's really good. Actually, I was super impressed.
Speaker 1: Now, if you're in any way trying to convince the
Speaker 1: listeners and I that there's some kind of fucking advance
Speaker 1: manage to not being able to see when you're boxing,
Speaker 1: you're doing a terrible job because none of us believe you.
Speaker 1: That's the worst Bloody sales pitch.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: Look, he's got a real advantage because he's got amazing,
Speaker 1: you know, senses, you know what's good sense for boxing.
Speaker 1: Been able to fucking see the glove coming at you. Fuck,
Speaker 1: that's hilarious. Well, good on him, shout out to Benny.
Speaker 1: But also I'm thinking, I'm guessing this is not a
Speaker 1: sanctioned event. Seven blindfolded or six blindfolded people and a
Speaker 1: blind bloke in a ring throwing cut lunches. That just
Speaker 1: seems like something from Bloody what's that stupid show where
Speaker 1: they all used to do crazy things? You know, all
Speaker 1: those guys, you know, there was a whole show Jackass Jacks.
Speaker 1: That's just an episode of Jackass.
Speaker 3: Well it's going to be doing it in front of
Speaker 3: five thousand people in the audience, So I don't know.
Speaker 1: How they get insurance for that or how they get
Speaker 1: that sanction. That just seems like me personally, I'm like,
Speaker 1: fuck yeah, let's do that every weekend.
Speaker 3: Well, the thing that concerns me the most is the
Speaker 3: advantage to wearing punches when you're boxing is you see
Speaker 3: them and you learn how to wear them, and you
Speaker 3: don't get punched from behind or you see them coming,
Speaker 3: so you're absorbing them properly and going to be seven
Speaker 3: blokes in the ring. People are going to get punched
Speaker 3: in the back of the head. They're going to be
Speaker 3: frantically swinging punches and thus wearing them when they can't
Speaker 3: be seen, and that's very in my opinion, it's possible
Speaker 3: to be quite a bit more dangerous. But I was very.
Speaker 1: Impressing about that. Nothing about that. That's a good idea.
Speaker 1: It's hilarious, hilarious, But from somebody who studies the brain somewhat,
Speaker 1: I can tell you, if you want to make your
Speaker 1: brain work worse, just shut your eyes and let people
Speaker 1: hit you in the head. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do you know what's interesting is I was having a
Speaker 3: quick chat with him afterwards just about the idea of
Speaker 3: people white people are mean, Like he's got two percent visions,
Speaker 3: so I was saying to him, I'd give anything to
Speaker 3: to come to just pop in to see what you
Speaker 3: see for a moment, because I'm curious, but so many
Speaker 3: people because he sees dark, so he looked around, he goes,
Speaker 3: I can't see the ring. I can't see anything.
Speaker 1: All that's black.
Speaker 3: And then he looked up and there's a high ceiling
Speaker 3: with a beam of light that comes in. He goes,
Speaker 3: I can see like a lighter line across there. And
Speaker 3: then he turned to another wall and he said, and
Speaker 3: this over here looks a bit lighter, so he can
Speaker 3: see bits of light. And I said, you know, when
Speaker 3: I walk in, he's sitting at a table in front
Speaker 3: of a computer, tinkering on a laptop. And I'm like, dude,
Speaker 3: I'm here to spar the blind guy, like who are you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: And the people that get angry and mean because they're like,
Speaker 3: you're not blind and get aggressive about it, and it's
Speaker 3: isn't that interesting? Human behavior?
Speaker 1: Human? But well, I think that's my life in your life,
Speaker 1: isn't it. I mean, yeah, I've been studying it in
Speaker 1: one way or another for my entire life. And I'm,
Speaker 1: you know, ten minutes away from finishing my whole kitten
Speaker 1: kaboodle at Uni. And I still don't fucking know how
Speaker 1: humans work, and I still people still, you know, you're
Speaker 1: never going to know. Like the human condition is what
Speaker 1: makes somebody kind and generous and loving and compassionate to
Speaker 1: a stranger that they'll never see again. Like I love that,
Speaker 1: And like we have all ends of the spectrum. We
Speaker 1: have people that are complete you knows, and psychopaths and
Speaker 1: manipulative narcissists to do anything to get anything, and will
Speaker 1: lie and cannive and can be charismatic and charming and
Speaker 1: full of shit. And then yeah, the people at the
Speaker 1: other end and the people in between, and the you know,
Speaker 1: it's like it's yeah, I don't think there's an answer
Speaker 1: to that question, but I think some people seem to.
Speaker 1: You know, what's it called? Ah, there's a there's a
Speaker 1: name for it. It's called something like Shathan Freuden or something.
Speaker 1: I'll look at it, but it's basically a German word
Speaker 1: for this concept that people take delight in other people's pain. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's it's a thing. I only learned
Speaker 1: the term the other day and I can't remember it.
Speaker 1: I need to. It's funny. I need to use things,
Speaker 1: you know, Like when I learned something, I'm like, I've
Speaker 1: got to teach that in the next day or two
Speaker 1: or three. And then if if I teach it a
Speaker 1: few times then it gets him better. Then I pretty
Speaker 1: much never forget it, but until it's locked in there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so, well, good for him, and I hope
Speaker 1: he comes out without any brain damage. And how is
Speaker 1: he doing? The computer thing? By the way, does it
Speaker 1: talk to him or something to it? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it talks to him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's basically chat JPT. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It just always makes me think when you interact
Speaker 3: with people. That always makes me think about everything we
Speaker 3: take for granted, which sounds a cliche, but you know,
Speaker 3: I jump in the car and I drive home, and
Speaker 3: then I think about he had to get a taxi there,
Speaker 3: and you get to taxi back, and then I've got
Speaker 3: to I'm sending him some photos and he'll never get
Speaker 3: to see those photos. He's going to put it on
Speaker 3: social media, and like, so he's in this same world
Speaker 3: we're living in, and his world is so different. Yes,
Speaker 3: And we don't build it, and not just for blind people,
Speaker 3: for all sorts of people. We don't build it for
Speaker 3: everyone else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's yeah, I don't built for people who
Speaker 1: aren't in you know, in inverted commas typical. I guess you.
Speaker 3: Know you're really inspired by you know, that's two blind
Speaker 3: people I've been involved with now that are doing like
Speaker 3: crazy stuff despite their limitation, like we had Ben felt
Speaker 3: both Ben's by the way, Ben Felton, who wanted to
Speaker 3: be the fastest motor man on a motorcycle and ride
Speaker 3: a motorcycle fastest blind man. Sorry, And it's just like,
Speaker 3: I think that's so inspiring when people because people like that,
Speaker 3: just I think of them often and go, well, if
Speaker 3: they can, Yeah, isn't it funny?
Speaker 1: Though? The number of people Tiffany and Cook who have
Speaker 1: a disability and or they don't have a disability, then
Speaker 1: something happens, then they get a disability, or they acquire
Speaker 1: whatever it is, and then all of a sudden they
Speaker 1: start doing all this amazing shit when they've actually got
Speaker 1: less capacity than they had before the injury or the
Speaker 1: accident or the illness, but now they're doing ten times
Speaker 1: more than they ever did. And it's not because all
Speaker 1: of a sudden they've got more talent or more physical
Speaker 1: ability or but it's because they've got a totally different mindset.
Speaker 1: And isn't it a pity that so many of us
Speaker 1: wait until something fucking diabolical happens before we think, oh, geez,
Speaker 1: I wonder what I could do. I wonder how much
Speaker 1: progress or what I could achieve if I just fucking
Speaker 1: let go of all the bullshit and dive in. And
Speaker 1: if I fail, I fail. If I win, If it's painful,
Speaker 1: it's painful. If it's good, it's good. But it's like
Speaker 1: it seems, and I'm generalizing, but it seems that a
Speaker 1: lot of people who end up in a situation that
Speaker 1: they didn't choose or want, some of them become almost
Speaker 1: fucking superhuman because I don't know why, like the fear
Speaker 1: goes or the maybe it's just that we have a
Speaker 1: shift or they have a shift in awareness or perspective
Speaker 1: and go, oh fucking hell, I'm not here for a
Speaker 1: long time. I'm here for a good time. Why don't
Speaker 1: I fucking jump in?
Speaker 3: I think I think about that heaps in terms of
Speaker 3: all the answers that we're all seeking, Like we're learning
Speaker 3: and we're seeking, and we're evolving, and we're trying to
Speaker 3: grasp this thing like it's all still, like life is
Speaker 3: still and the answers of this thing, and then I'll
Speaker 3: apply them. And by the time I apply them, by
Speaker 3: the time you start to apply something, you've already changed. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm notnting the same person with the same circumstances or
Speaker 3: emotions or feelings or maybe even values.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the thing that is really important to you
Speaker 1: when you're let's just say twenty, might be completely irrelevant
Speaker 1: when you're thirty, yeah, or when you're forty two year
Speaker 1: old Tiff and you go, fuck, you know what I want?
Speaker 1: I want this, and then you work your ass off
Speaker 1: and you get it and you go, ah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe that wasn't it, or maybe or maybe that's nirvana
Speaker 1: or you know, it's the old You get to the
Speaker 1: top of the mountain and you're like, mah, fuck, I
Speaker 1: climbed the wrong mountain or this is good, but oh,
Speaker 1: look at that mountain over there. Then you climb that one,
Speaker 1: you're like, this is a bit better, but fuck, look
Speaker 1: at that. And you know, because I think, like, we
Speaker 1: grow up and I know we've spoken about this before,
Speaker 1: but we grow up in this kind of model of
Speaker 1: thinking that says successes about external things. And so when
Speaker 1: you get that thing or change that thing, or own
Speaker 1: that thing, or people can see that trophy or see
Speaker 1: how many followers Craig's got or Tiff scots or or
Speaker 1: you know, Craig's biceps or TIFF's fucking whatever, whatever it is, right,
Speaker 1: and then you achieve it or create it or do
Speaker 1: it or change it, and then you're like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: still a bit sad. I'm still a bit I've still
Speaker 1: got shit self esteem, or I'm still overthinking, or I'm
Speaker 1: still i still feel like there's some kind of emotional
Speaker 1: and or psychological whole, or I feel disconnected, or and
Speaker 1: then I go, oh, maybe it's maybe I need to
Speaker 1: be more jacked, or maybe I need a bigger house,
Speaker 1: or you know, it's like we have these stories that
Speaker 1: these external things are going to create these internal outcomes
Speaker 1: that I don't think they generally do.
Speaker 3: I've been thinking about it heaps lately, and I feel
Speaker 3: like with a lot of the people I'm around and
Speaker 3: having conversations with are in this state of busyness and
Speaker 3: a bit burnout. So I'm having a lots of conversations
Speaker 3: around that. And because I've made such a massive overdue
Speaker 3: effort in stopping that myself, because I'm just a product
Speaker 3: of that of working seven days a week for god
Speaker 3: knows how many years now seven days, and you know,
Speaker 3: always happening to happening that word again, always having to.
Speaker 1: Drive it's bad happening, khuf e n happening.
Speaker 3: Thanks for drawing my attention to that and never always
Speaker 3: said it.
Speaker 1: All words have got to start somewhere, So let's go.
Speaker 1: It's twenty twenty five, it's sixteenth of April. Let's push
Speaker 1: that motherfucker out of the literary nest and we'll accredit it,
Speaker 1: will credit it to you. Tea cook happening. That's now,
Speaker 1: it's a thing. Now, it's it. It's a word. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's right up there with somethink.
Speaker 3: Well, it's a real tazzy word, somethin somethink. Just ask
Speaker 3: my friends, just asks, Yeah, just.
Speaker 1: Ask my friend about something. And if you don't, it
Speaker 1: won't be.
Speaker 3: Happening anyway anyway. So I'm really conscious, and I'm really
Speaker 3: conscious of the people around me that might still be
Speaker 3: having the conversations I was, or you know, wearing the
Speaker 3: busy badge or oh it's really busy or stressing or
Speaker 3: frantic for a couple of people that have come up
Speaker 3: against healthy issues in the middle of that, and watching
Speaker 3: how hard it is to still make the choice and
Speaker 3: realize that, like to pull yourself out of that, out
Speaker 3: of it. I've got to I'm busy. I've got to
Speaker 3: make more money, I've got to do more things. I've
Speaker 3: got to produce, you know, Like I get it because
Speaker 3: I feel in me what drives me towards that. But
Speaker 3: there's the experience of something, and then there's the knowledge
Speaker 3: of wanting of that not really being a reality, it's
Speaker 3: just a story. And then there's the trying to move
Speaker 3: yourself to live a little bit differently, and it takes time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think it's also part of
Speaker 1: it is about getting there's so many facets diss but
Speaker 1: getting clear about what you want and what you don't want,
Speaker 1: and why you want that thing and why you don't
Speaker 1: want that other thing. Right, And I've had a lot
Speaker 1: of conversations lately with people about and I know we're
Speaker 1: revisiting this old chestnut, but metacognition, you know, thinking about
Speaker 1: how I think and how you think and all of
Speaker 1: that stuff, like starting to become aware of the so
Speaker 1: many people at the moment are so fucking emotional about
Speaker 1: what they think about Donald Trump, or what they think
Speaker 1: about Anthony Albanuzi, or what they think about the Carnival
Speaker 1: diet or what they think. And it's like, I understand
Speaker 1: that you don't think like me or agree with me,
Speaker 1: or you do agree and you do you know, either
Speaker 1: way all good? But do we have to hate everyone
Speaker 1: who doesn't think like us? Do we have to call
Speaker 1: everyone a fuck with that likes Donald Trump or hates
Speaker 1: Donald Trump? Or do we do we have to like
Speaker 1: do we need to be so vitriolic and so nasty?
Speaker 1: Does it and by the way, does it move the needle?
Speaker 1: Does it help? Does it improve anything? Is it creating
Speaker 1: good outcomes? Is making people feel better or do better?
Speaker 1: Like it's I understand there's always going to be divergence
Speaker 1: of opinion and idea and belief in philosophy and behavior,
Speaker 1: of course, but it's like, Okay, you're a Muslim, I'm
Speaker 1: an atheist, tips a Catholic, old mates, a Buddhist or
Speaker 1: whatever whatever it is. Hey, let's all have dinner and
Speaker 1: not talk about any of that shit and let's just
Speaker 1: hang out like or let you know. It's like, we
Speaker 1: don't need to try to convince other people that what
Speaker 1: we think is the thing that everybody should think. But
Speaker 1: that seems to be a lot of what happens on
Speaker 1: in some areas of social media, where it's just people
Speaker 1: screaming at each other who all have a different opinion.
Speaker 1: You know, I did that. I think I might have
Speaker 1: even done it with you that on the Fence episode
Speaker 1: a while ago, we're talking about the beauty of like,
Speaker 1: you know, people tell you you've got to get off
Speaker 1: the fence. I'm like, no, you don't, because what they're
Speaker 1: saying is you need to pick a side. Well, fuck
Speaker 1: your sides. I don't want to be on a side
Speaker 1: because I don't want to be in your group. I
Speaker 1: don't want to be in their group. I don't want
Speaker 1: to be in a fucking group. I want to just
Speaker 1: think for myself and if it happens to align with
Speaker 1: what you think or they think, that's cool. But I'm
Speaker 1: still not in a group with you, because the problem
Speaker 1: is that once we are in these groups, these philosophical, religious, nutritional, political,
Speaker 1: sociological groups, whatever, now you're part of the group. Now
Speaker 1: you need to align with the group. To stay in
Speaker 1: the group, which means you have this drive to belong
Speaker 1: and this drive to align. So now you can't be
Speaker 1: critical of anything, which means you can't think critically because
Speaker 1: you are more interested in staying a member of the
Speaker 1: group than actually telling people or actually being true to
Speaker 1: your own thinking and ability to critically decide or what
Speaker 1: is or isn't for you. Now, there are many things
Speaker 1: that I think like, I might be in the middle
Speaker 1: of a situation where people are talking about something that
Speaker 1: I think is bullshit, and I won't nod my head
Speaker 1: and agree with them. But I have enough awareness and
Speaker 1: social intelligence to know that if in the middle of
Speaker 1: all of this, I go, I think you're all full
Speaker 1: of shit. I think you're wrong. This is what I
Speaker 1: think is right, and that may be what I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: but I'm definitely not going to say that, not because
Speaker 1: I'm scared, but because it won't help. It won't change anything.
Speaker 1: Nobody's going to go Nobody who thinks something diametrically opposed
Speaker 1: to me is going to go, Oh, that's the really
Speaker 1: good point, Craig, I am wrong. Thanks for pointing that
Speaker 1: out right. It doesn't happen. And by the way, I
Speaker 1: don't know that I'm right. I just have a different
Speaker 1: opinion to you and this idea that or this, uh
Speaker 1: what's the word this in lack of capacity for people
Speaker 1: to be able to go Look, I really think this,
Speaker 1: but I could be wrong, Like people seem to have
Speaker 1: an aversion to no, fuck you and fuck that group
Speaker 1: and where it's like, geez, do you not? I get
Speaker 1: shit wrong all the time, and I'm and I think
Speaker 1: about this stuff a lot, and I'm mildly educated. I'm
Speaker 1: mildly I do a lot of research and thinking and exploring,
Speaker 1: and I still get half the shit wrong. So why
Speaker 1: do you think you couldn't be wrong? And this is
Speaker 1: the problem, is that that you get all of these
Speaker 1: echo chambers where everyone whatever it is, they think there.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I've answered your question. I've
Speaker 1: completely diverted the conversation. I'm aware, But to me, that's
Speaker 1: just it's a bit sad. It's a bit sad that
Speaker 1: we think we're the smartest species, but we're so fucking
Speaker 1: stupid and ignorant so much of the time, and we
Speaker 1: do so much that hurts so many people, and we
Speaker 1: can't just and I know this sounds naf and I
Speaker 1: know it's never going to happen, but imagine if people
Speaker 1: were just more concerned with being loving and kind. Doesn't
Speaker 1: mean to everyone all the time, but just where you went, like,
Speaker 1: I just met with this Should I say? It doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: I just I won't say, but I just met with
Speaker 1: this person who needed some help. Literally, I came straight.
Speaker 1: I left the cafe at twenty two past one, and
Speaker 1: you and I were on it half past one. And
Speaker 1: at the end it was someone who asked for and
Speaker 1: I can't be everything for everyone, so please don't send
Speaker 1: me an email. But they said what do I owe you?
Speaker 1: And I went nothing, and I'm like, it's all good,
Speaker 1: and they they're like, why would you do that? And
Speaker 1: I literally go, because I've got some skills and knowledge
Speaker 1: that you need and you need help. And they're like,
Speaker 1: I do, but but why would you do it for nothing?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, it's kind of sad that people blown
Speaker 1: away when someone would genuinely just help them where there's
Speaker 1: no hook, catch agenda, it's not strategic. And I go because, well, one,
Speaker 1: you need the help, and I know I can help
Speaker 1: you a little bit and it's my pleasure see you later.
Speaker 1: But you know. That's why I've said to you, and
Speaker 1: I've said on this show, I'll shut up after this. Like,
Speaker 1: if you've got two or three of those people in
Speaker 1: your life that are just there for you no matter
Speaker 1: what all the time, even when you're being a fucking idiot,
Speaker 1: which is going to be regularly because you're a human.
Speaker 1: If you've got three people in your life that just
Speaker 1: would show up for you and be there for you,
Speaker 1: then I think you're doing great. Which sounds kind of pessimistic,
Speaker 1: but I just think finding those no matter what, people
Speaker 1: who love you inside out, and they'll probably tell you
Speaker 1: when you're being a dickhead as well, but that's okay,
Speaker 1: Like those people are a gift I love.
Speaker 3: I actually love that idea of being on the fence.
Speaker 3: I think I feel like you might have done it
Speaker 3: solo on that I don't think I listen to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's the smartest space to be. Remember
Speaker 1: this pulsion that we have. Sorry, i'll shut up after this.
Speaker 1: Don't send me an email and know I'm talking too much.
Speaker 1: But where we tell people they've got to pick a side,
Speaker 1: let me tell you don't. You don't. In fact, there's
Speaker 1: probably better to not pick a side.
Speaker 3: I reckon. I've landed there a lot more with in
Speaker 3: recent times. Again, I've come back there. I've come back
Speaker 3: to the fence in a lot of things and then
Speaker 3: just got to the point where go Then when you
Speaker 3: sit on the fence, you go, Okay, Now, how much
Speaker 3: of my time and energy is warranted by even thinking
Speaker 3: about it? You know, it's it's hard, I might just
Speaker 3: park that whole thing. Because it's when I first became
Speaker 3: old enough to vote, I was always so aware of
Speaker 3: so when I'm when I want to learn something, when
Speaker 3: I'm interested in something, I kind of I'm really curious.
Speaker 3: I want to learn it pretty deeply. And if it's
Speaker 3: not in that bucket, it's in that I don't give
Speaker 3: a fuck and I won't listen and I'll earn bucket.
Speaker 3: When it became old enough to vote, I was like,
Speaker 3: I am so aware that the implications of making decisions
Speaker 3: are have go far beyond my knowledge, and I don't
Speaker 3: think people reflect on that. I don't people think people
Speaker 3: think past their immediate circumstances to all of the knock
Speaker 3: on effects of the decisions that are made, beyond what
Speaker 3: might just sound good or feel good or be good.
Speaker 3: For them and their family.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well, also when you think back just to
Speaker 1: our notion that you started with the being on the fence,
Speaker 1: I actually visualize me on a fence and there's hundreds
Speaker 1: or thousands of people on one side and thousands on
Speaker 1: the other. Now I'm on the fence, see the literally
Speaker 1: or metaphorically. I have a perspective that none of them
Speaker 1: do because they are all compartmentalized. They're all in this
Speaker 1: group or that group. I'm not in your fucking group.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be in your group. And I'm
Speaker 1: not better and I'm not worse. I'm just not You know,
Speaker 1: it might happen that we land on the same beliefs
Speaker 1: and that's cool, but there will be other things that
Speaker 1: I totally disagree with you on. You know, this is funny.
Speaker 1: A couple of days ago, maybe it was yesterday other
Speaker 1: day before I had Zoe Daniels on the Oh you
Speaker 1: were there, and you know what I found funny I said,
Speaker 1: to full disclosure to our listeners, I said to Zoe
Speaker 1: before we started, I'm about as political as a moccasin.
Speaker 1: So this is not going to be some fucking hard
Speaker 1: hitting political interrogation. So breathe easy champ, you know, And
Speaker 1: I think she probably went, oh, yeah, sure, and then
Speaker 1: it proceeded to me exactly what I said it was
Speaker 1: going to be, and it just so happens that she's
Speaker 1: a politician and I'm a podcaster and a researcher and
Speaker 1: a speaker, and it was two people talking. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a political conversation at all. And my perspective was I've
Speaker 1: interviewed hardly any politicians, a couple Senator Jackie Lambish right.
Speaker 1: But here's what's funny. Three people since have said to
Speaker 1: me something like either I'm pretty surprised you interviewed her,
Speaker 1: or why would you give her any airtime? And I'm like,
Speaker 1: people are funny, aren't they? And I couldn't even I
Speaker 1: couldn't even be fucked. I'm like, I didn't want to
Speaker 1: go ah, you know, and I'm like cool, you know.
Speaker 1: And then someone else tell that, you know, she sent
Speaker 1: a message went she's amazing. I love that. A few
Speaker 1: other people went oh wow, like I've never heard of her,
Speaker 1: she's great. Couple of other people went glad you got
Speaker 1: her on, right, but it's so funny that, well, why'd
Speaker 1: you get it?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: I got her on because She's a human and I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to her, and if she thinks what
Speaker 1: I think or doesn't think what I think, or we
Speaker 1: have the same or different or whatever, it's all okay.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't want to get a version of
Speaker 1: me on the show every day, but just to be
Speaker 1: able to have a conversation with somebody. Yeah, a few
Speaker 1: people got their nose out of joint because I interviewed her,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Wow, it says way more about you
Speaker 1: than her.
Speaker 3: That is just so so interesting, because I think I thought,
Speaker 3: I thought to myself, I'd never heard of Zoe Daniel.
Speaker 3: And I got to the end of that and I
Speaker 3: think I said, to you, she was I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 3: She was really nice. But also her work as a
Speaker 3: foreign correspondent and the stuff she's done in her life
Speaker 3: makes it to me makes her really interesting. Yes, And
Speaker 3: I'm kind of really interested in what sort of a
Speaker 3: human it takes to want to be in the political
Speaker 3: space at all, like whether she's on which side of
Speaker 3: the fucking fence or fences?
Speaker 1: She said, Oh, I'm with you. I I have zero
Speaker 1: interest in a politician. I think it's the worst. I
Speaker 1: think it's the worst fucking job of all time. You
Speaker 1: know it's I think, fuck that. But anyway, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. I was a little bit surprised and one
Speaker 1: person that I know quite well and it was like,
Speaker 1: though I didn't say, but they pretty much said, I'm
Speaker 1: disappointed in you. I'm like, oh, fuck, I can't tell
Speaker 1: you how many fucks I do not give about your disappointment.
Speaker 3: But anyway, selling you didn't mention anything about which party
Speaker 3: she was representing or anything at all.
Speaker 1: I don't know, did you. It was just that I feel, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just that I had her on It was disappointing.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry. Fuck I should have wrung you and
Speaker 1: got your seal of approval. How thoughtless of me to
Speaker 1: to somebody that didn't get your tickh And to that listener,
Speaker 1: shout out to you, you know who you are.
Speaker 3: It is a reminder that no matter what we're doing,
Speaker 3: which often people are trying to, especially in today's world
Speaker 3: where everything's everyone's got a profile and a voice of
Speaker 3: some sort, and we want to appeal to everyone, and
Speaker 3: you just can't. It can't kill everyone. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I have to make my decisions on what I think
Speaker 3: and how I think and what I believe in, and
Speaker 3: those and the people who who resonate with my style
Speaker 3: of thinking will will come to me or speak to
Speaker 3: me and talk to me, and we will have this
Speaker 3: understanding that for us, that is, that is what works.
Speaker 3: And then there will be a whole bunch of other
Speaker 3: people that it's like, that's that's not going to be
Speaker 3: for you. That's there's gonna be different path, there's gonna
Speaker 3: be different resources.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that I'm going to say something
Speaker 1: that will get more nose out of joint. Fuck it.
Speaker 1: I think when people do everything that they can to
Speaker 1: be popular, it's a sign of weakness, not integrity. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: I think, fuck you just say what you you know.
Speaker 1: Of course, we need to exercise wisdom and you know,
Speaker 1: not be overly insensitive to anyone. I get all of that,
Speaker 1: But don't say shit that you don't believe because you
Speaker 1: think that's going to make you popular. And there's so
Speaker 1: much fucking insincere, superficial self help, fucking I want to
Speaker 1: spew in my own mouth crap right that people wheel
Speaker 1: out regularly because they want people to love them, like them,
Speaker 1: approve of them. Might do just say what you really think,
Speaker 1: you know, be be aware and sensitive and if it's
Speaker 1: if it's just going to be highly offensive, and then
Speaker 1: then don't. But but but you know, if you think
Speaker 1: something's shit, that's okay, and if you're wrong, that's okay,
Speaker 1: and if you're right, that's okay. But yeah, I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that the reason that this show
Speaker 1: has done okay is, you know, and it's not the
Speaker 1: high watermark for shows, and it's not the ABC and
Speaker 1: it's not Joe Rogan and it's not you know whatever,
Speaker 1: but we do all right because I think the conversations
Speaker 1: are real and raw and clunky and lumpy, and you know,
Speaker 1: we get stuff right, we get stuff wrong. We have
Speaker 1: interesting chats with interesting people. And I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: like you and me are both fucking horrible at selling ourselves, right,
Speaker 1: You're not.
Speaker 3: Always sell them myself, bro, look at me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're You're not bad with You're not bad with
Speaker 1: the posts and the but in terms of like, you know,
Speaker 1: my new mentoring program, right, I get uncomfortable even to go, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm running a mentoring program blah blah blah, which I
Speaker 1: should do every single episode, and every episode I forget
Speaker 1: to do it. But I think that I get that,
Speaker 1: you know, people have got to sell stuff. By the way,
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with people selling themselves and programs and
Speaker 1: products and stuff. But I think in the middle of
Speaker 1: your program, your product, your mentoring group, whatever the fuck
Speaker 1: it is, just don't say shit about it that it
Speaker 1: isn't true, you know. And if one more self help
Speaker 1: person promotes themselves as the dude or the girl who
Speaker 1: changes lives, I'm like, I'm going to spew in my
Speaker 1: mouth again. I'm like, don't you don't change lives. You
Speaker 1: just share thoughts and ideas that aren't yours anyway. Like
Speaker 1: you didn't invent psychology, you didn't invent human behavior. You know,
Speaker 1: you and I for the most part, other than stories
Speaker 1: that are unique to us, I am not sharing any
Speaker 1: information that has never been revealed to the world. But
Speaker 1: in terms of knowledge of human behavior, psychology, physiology, sociology,
Speaker 1: how humans work and think and behave and interact and operate,
Speaker 1: there's nothing new. But everyone wants to think that they're
Speaker 1: the genius that's tapped into the secret of fucking human existence,
Speaker 1: and it's just not true. We're all just different fucking
Speaker 1: people navigating the human experience In our own way falling down,
Speaker 1: fucking up, getting up, and some people are going to
Speaker 1: resonate with Craig Harper or Tif Cook and some are not.
Speaker 1: And some are going to think I'm a prick, and
Speaker 1: some are going to think I'm a fucking big, lovable
Speaker 1: fuck with and whatever. You know. But it's and it's
Speaker 1: all okay. But let's just not pretend we're something that
Speaker 1: we're not.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yesterday, yesterday, yesterday I caught up with doctor Bill
Speaker 3: God bless him, have my therapy session. It was great.
Speaker 3: And the last portion we got to talking, I was
Speaker 3: talking about the program program I'm doing and speaking and
Speaker 3: at the moment there's a lot of pulling out all
Speaker 3: of my ideas and thoughts and the stuff I care
Speaker 3: about and like looking under the hood of what it
Speaker 3: means and why it has meaning to me and how
Speaker 3: to really get absolute clarity on that so that I
Speaker 3: know that what I'm talking about is landing with all
Speaker 3: the people the way that I actually intended to, which
Speaker 3: I'm loving. I'm loving the process. But I was talking
Speaker 3: to him about some of my ideas on resilience, and
Speaker 3: what I loved was he was We had this great
Speaker 3: conversation so he's done. Like he's in his seventies, he's
Speaker 3: been a speaker, he's an academic, he's a professor. Now
Speaker 3: he's doing you know, he's kind of doing less of
Speaker 3: that and more just one on one and living his life,
Speaker 3: dealing trying to keep me on track with mine.
Speaker 1: We are a fucking full time project.
Speaker 3: But I love talking to him because he's real and
Speaker 3: honest and he goes, oh, like, so we were unpacking
Speaker 3: what is resilience, what isn't resilience? What's the psychological definition
Speaker 3: of resilience? And I love that. I love doing that
Speaker 3: with different people because I'm like, oh, this for me,
Speaker 3: this is gold. I'm sitting here with a psychotherapist that's
Speaker 3: worked in drug an alcohol rehabilitation, that's worked across the world,
Speaker 3: that's been a professor and an academic, and he's saying
Speaker 3: to me, yeah, I'm not sure I'm going to go
Speaker 3: and do some research on resilience. Now. I think I
Speaker 3: like the way you're thinking of that. Yeah, it's cool,
Speaker 3: like we go and learn things. We go and to
Speaker 3: do courses to do learning. But I am more interested
Speaker 3: in learning from from the inside and from other peoples
Speaker 3: and from perspectives and experiences and going what what does
Speaker 3: this mean for all of the different but not just
Speaker 3: what has somebody written and convinced other people what's just
Speaker 3: sounded good enough to get in a psychology book, But
Speaker 3: what has today's world real practical in the stuff that
Speaker 3: in the type of people that come to speak to
Speaker 3: Tiff Cook. Those people they're going to have a certain
Speaker 3: with certain demographic or they'll have a certain backstory, they'll
Speaker 3: have some reason to relate to me. So how do
Speaker 3: I talk about resilience and encourage resilience and explore resilience
Speaker 3: with them as opposed to handing them to DSM and
Speaker 3: going resilience says ye, resilience is a cold shower.
Speaker 1: He's yeah, yeah, Hey try harder, Brian, Hey, Sally, It'll
Speaker 1: be alright. Stiff up a lip. Do you know what's
Speaker 1: interesting about that? On Doc Telly her Pep Soldier on
Speaker 1: you'll be right good on Doctor Bill for being that
Speaker 1: humble and aware to go fuck not really sure, but
Speaker 1: what is here's a thing that I've learned without trying
Speaker 1: to sound like a dick, because I've already said I'm
Speaker 1: the world's worst academic. But here's something that I've learned
Speaker 1: that I never thought I would learn doing my power.
Speaker 1: So when I started November one, twenty nineteen, one of
Speaker 1: the first because my PhD is essentially in the area
Speaker 1: of self awareness, understanding others and self and da da da,
Speaker 1: And well, what am I going to do is I'm
Speaker 1: going to start with just clearly defining self awareness. Let's
Speaker 1: start there. Well, there's no definition. There's thirty two definitions,
Speaker 1: there's one hundred, and there's three hundred and thirty. So
Speaker 1: you know, like even with resilience, there's what we call convergence.
Speaker 1: There's no convergence of definition, and so it just means, oh,
Speaker 1: there is no like with my research, specifically, meta accuracy
Speaker 1: and metaperception. I started with because one of the things
Speaker 1: that I was looking at, one of the myriad of
Speaker 1: things I'm looking at in one of my papers, which
Speaker 1: is called a systematic literature review of the way essentially
Speaker 1: that meta accuracy is measured. So, in other words, how
Speaker 1: good am I in terms of like at understanding how
Speaker 1: other people see me? Howcurate am I? So I started
Speaker 1: with twelve hundred papers that met my search criteria in
Speaker 1: these academic search engines. Twelve hundred papers. Tiffany in ended
Speaker 1: up with one hundred and ten papers, and of the
Speaker 1: one hundred and ten papers that formed this fucking gigantic
Speaker 1: table that me and my research team have created, and
Speaker 1: that form that was the starting point for this, which
Speaker 1: is what currently is a seventy two page academic paper
Speaker 1: on blah blah blah. Right, here's the thing. Even with
Speaker 1: that very specific thing, metaaccuracy, there's no unifying definition. So
Speaker 1: the funny thing is you think, oh, like, if you're
Speaker 1: not like, you're a I would call you a like
Speaker 1: a casual researcher, Like you're not an academic researcher, but
Speaker 1: you do research right in your own way, using your
Speaker 1: own tools and resource sources. But you think, oh, let
Speaker 1: me get the actual definition. Well, there is no especially
Speaker 1: in psychology. And as I mean, and this is I've
Speaker 1: said this before, I have a love hate relationship with
Speaker 1: psychology because human behavior is fucking fascinating. I do endeavor
Speaker 1: to understand it first, you know, seek first to understand right,
Speaker 1: and then to be understood. But then we know that
Speaker 1: it's from from a straight science point of view. You
Speaker 1: and I can run the same test on the same
Speaker 1: person four days in a row. From a psychometric evaluation
Speaker 1: point of view, and we're going to get four different
Speaker 1: sets of data, you know what I mean. So it's
Speaker 1: not because it's not consistent. Whereas you know, if we
Speaker 1: do the same test in physics, we're going to get
Speaker 1: the same result. You know, if I drop my phone
Speaker 1: right now to the floor, it's going to fall to
Speaker 1: the floor at nine point eight one meters per second,
Speaker 1: because that's how fast things fall, give or take, and
Speaker 1: it's going to hit the floor one hundred times out
Speaker 1: of one hundred. Right. So in certain science it's very reliable,
Speaker 1: it's very predictable, it's very consistent. The problem with psychology
Speaker 1: is humans are not static. Humans are dynamic emotionally, psychologically, sociologically, physiologically,
Speaker 1: not even to the point where you could do an
Speaker 1: IQ test at eight o'clock in the morning and you'll
Speaker 1: score ten points higher than you do at eight o'clock
Speaker 1: in the evening, but you're the same person. But then
Speaker 1: what we do is we go, oh, unequivocally, TIFF's IQ
Speaker 1: is one seventeen, Well, no, it's actually one twenty seven
Speaker 1: in the morning or one ninety seven doesn't matter, or no,
Speaker 1: Craig is Craig's got this, or Craig's got that. Well,
Speaker 1: if you tested him on a different day, you might
Speaker 1: find out he doesn't have that. So it's a you know,
Speaker 1: the whole world of psychological research and defining things like
Speaker 1: resilience or self awareness. It's a very kind of dynamic landscape.
Speaker 1: It's not as hard and fast as people see.
Speaker 3: Th I wrote down when you were talking about that,
Speaker 3: I wrote down self understanding, behavior, priming, and manipulation. And
Speaker 3: because I was thinking of things so with an interaction
Speaker 3: with a person, all of those things are happening beneath
Speaker 3: the surface, and we all have different levels of self fantasy.
Speaker 3: How much do I understand myself? And then I was
Speaker 3: thinking of back when I first started working with you,
Speaker 3: and you know, like I would remember that time you
Speaker 3: were like, sometimes I feel like you are pissed off
Speaker 3: or example, I was like, sometimes I am harps and
Speaker 3: I haven't figured it out yet, and I know it's
Speaker 3: there were so many times when I was like, what,
Speaker 3: I have this emotional reaction and I don't know what's
Speaker 3: me and what's real. I don't know what's Craig and
Speaker 3: what's my shit that I'm just unaware of. And I
Speaker 3: know that there were times at first, where was like
Speaker 3: I'd be in the fucking zoom room waiting and excited
Speaker 3: as fuck, and you'd slide in straight from another meeting
Speaker 3: right on time to start, and they'd be like, doesn't
Speaker 3: me give a fuck because people that are late with me.
Speaker 3: I had a thing about it, and whether or not
Speaker 3: I know the reality of it, that meant that something
Speaker 3: switched inside me, and whether I liked it or not,
Speaker 3: I was a bit fucking bottom lip out, sad and
Speaker 3: maybe a bit angry and pissed off. And I'm like,
Speaker 3: it's such a fucking asshole. He doesn't even want to
Speaker 3: say hi to me first. He just comes in and
Speaker 3: then I'll just fucking go and edit the pod. You know,
Speaker 3: it was like, but when I'd leave that and go,
Speaker 3: you know that's not reality, but it would still happen.
Speaker 3: So we have all of this stuff. So that's hard
Speaker 3: to measure in psychology when you go, okay, we'll let's
Speaker 3: set up all these ways to measure meta accuracy. But
Speaker 3: even my experience of interactions with people in the moment
Speaker 3: and then walking away later and processing a different understanding
Speaker 3: of them because I'm not dissociated like I've had times
Speaker 3: where I accommodate and say yes to everything, because that
Speaker 3: was a thing that it was a coping mechanism that
Speaker 3: happened from being a kid and being needed unwanted and
Speaker 3: abandonment and all the things. And then I got older
Speaker 3: and I got to a point where I was like,
Speaker 3: I do that. I need to learn to say? Can
Speaker 3: I think about it? Because I keep getting a day
Speaker 3: later and going fuck, what the hell did I say
Speaker 3: yes to that? What do I always say yes to that person?
Speaker 3: I don't even want to do that. That's not good
Speaker 3: for me. Yeah, So yeah, I think with those self evaluations,
Speaker 3: you're measuring stuff in one moment that and people's levels
Speaker 3: of self knowledge and understanding are changing all the time.
Speaker 1: So what is really good about what you just said
Speaker 1: is all of that's true? And it's funny because people
Speaker 1: would think that and you and I have never really
Speaker 1: had a problem. But there's been a few lumps and
Speaker 1: bumps here and there, but nothing bad or relationship threatening
Speaker 1: or But the truth is that, well, one, I can
Speaker 1: be difficult, that's absolutely true. Two, you can be difficult,
Speaker 1: that's absolutely true. You like no, but this is what
Speaker 1: we've got to like, do I ever get off and
Speaker 1: think fucking tiff. No, I don't think that. I would
Speaker 1: more likely to think are fucking me? I'm more likely
Speaker 1: to think that, right. But the thing is that whatever
Speaker 1: is going on between you and whoever, you and me,
Speaker 1: you and your mum, you and your client, you are
Speaker 1: only ever capable of analyzing it subjectively. Yeah, because you
Speaker 1: you, you're you, so you're looking at it through the through
Speaker 1: your bias the people that did this to you or
Speaker 1: didn't do that to you, and your beliefs, and you're
Speaker 1: you could be in a shitty mood because you're twenty
Speaker 1: three percent angry and whatever. Right now. I could do
Speaker 1: the exact same thing on a different day, your response
Speaker 1: would be very different because on that day you're very
Speaker 1: different or you're somewhat different. But what is good about
Speaker 1: all of this and this is this is beautiful what's
Speaker 1: going on right now, because this is how people need
Speaker 1: to talk. I think about. Look, you did this and
Speaker 1: I got pissed off. Maybe it was you, maybe it
Speaker 1: was me, Maybe it was a bit of both of us.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. But this is how we have real
Speaker 1: relationships and real conversations and with our friends and with
Speaker 1: our colleagues and with our family. About what is really
Speaker 1: going on or you know, and it's not like I
Speaker 1: felt this. You made me feel. No, you didn't make
Speaker 1: me do anything. This happened, and as a result, this
Speaker 1: is how I felt. Now. I don't know how much
Speaker 1: of that is you, how much of that is me.
Speaker 1: It's probably all me. But my response was, but once
Speaker 1: I got over myself and I went and you know,
Speaker 1: distilled it and thought about it a little bit, I
Speaker 1: realized it was many me or but and there been
Speaker 1: times with you where I have thought about things and
Speaker 1: I've come back and I've said to you, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is how I'm feeling, saying you're doing anything wrong, but
Speaker 1: I would tell you one So, for example, this is
Speaker 1: something that you and I have spoken about a bit,
Speaker 1: and I'll share with the listeners one hundred percent of transparency.
Speaker 1: I have had a very long history of people being
Speaker 1: my best friend as long as I'm useful to them.
Speaker 1: You and I have had that chat, right, and so
Speaker 1: I'm a bit wary of people who are all love
Speaker 1: and light and Jesus and unicorns to me. Oh, harp
Speaker 1: sure this, harp sure that, and ha ha ha ha,
Speaker 1: and we're all bestie buddies. And then my used by
Speaker 1: date runs out. Now I can't help them anymore, or
Speaker 1: open any more doors for them, or introduce them to
Speaker 1: any more people, or give them any more professional leg ups.
Speaker 1: I've done everything I can do for them. Then they
Speaker 1: stop reaching out. I'm like, oh, oh, that wasn't a
Speaker 1: friend at all, right, And I've shared that with you,
Speaker 1: and obviously you're not one of those people. But so
Speaker 1: that for me where I'm I'm in terms of opening
Speaker 1: the door me opening the door like the Craig door,
Speaker 1: the fucking just to my heart to where I care
Speaker 1: about people. You know, I don't open that door that often.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I feel compelled to help
Speaker 1: and serve people, but I expect very little back, you know.
Speaker 1: But you and I have spoken about that, and you
Speaker 1: did a couple of things which you weren't actually doing
Speaker 1: anything wrong, but because of my history, I got upset,
Speaker 1: not upset, but probably I got a little bit oh
Speaker 1: oh oh fuck no, no, I'm not here again, am I?
Speaker 1: And but then you know, when we understand more, then
Speaker 1: we connect more, then we go oh like, that's why
Speaker 1: I say to people, And I know we bang on
Speaker 1: it about a lot, but you know, theory of mind
Speaker 1: is understanding how others think. Well, fuck, let's try that,
Speaker 1: you know, And because I am understand you pretty well,
Speaker 1: not completely, not totally, and not flawlessly, but I understand
Speaker 1: you pretty well after whatever six years or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: and so I have a pretty good idea of how
Speaker 1: to build rapport and connection and trust with you and
Speaker 1: have a conversation with you, and you know, like, what's
Speaker 1: the word, have the most kind of healthy relationship we
Speaker 1: can have without that sounding strategic. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: here's an interesting thing. People think that a strategic relationship
Speaker 1: is bad. Well, it's only bad if you're pretending it's
Speaker 1: not strategic. So I think, like, for example, I love
Speaker 1: my mum and dad unconditionally, but I need to be
Speaker 1: strategic about how I talk to my dad, because if
Speaker 1: I need to be thoughtful about where I go and
Speaker 1: where I don't go conversationally, and if I don't have
Speaker 1: some kind of ron strategy, not that it's insincere or fake,
Speaker 1: but there's going to be a shitfest every time I
Speaker 1: see him, because we don't see either eye on some things.
Speaker 1: But my strategy in inverted commas is that every time
Speaker 1: I see my dad it's good. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: say anything that's going to ruffle feathers. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to you know, I'm not necessarily going to agree with
Speaker 1: everything either. But my strategy is that seeing dad for
Speaker 1: him and for me and for mom is a good experience. Right,
Speaker 1: So I think in that way we can be strategic.
Speaker 1: You go into a meeting, do you have a strategy, yew,
Speaker 1: I want to create a good outcome. Well, that's a
Speaker 1: good that's a good intention. But we're talking about those
Speaker 1: kind of hidden strategies and agendas where you're pretending that
Speaker 1: it's one thing, but actually underneath there's an agenda that
Speaker 1: you're not being open about.
Speaker 3: And people don't tend to actively plan or or deconstruct
Speaker 3: this stuff after the moment. So we have interactions, people
Speaker 3: piss us off, and then we go and we vent
Speaker 3: because there's tensions. So we have a vent to someone
Speaker 3: this person always says this, and then that dissipates, and
Speaker 3: then we let it go and it continues it to cycle.
Speaker 3: We never go like the step is, well, okay, I'm
Speaker 3: going to react, Like our emotions don't lie. If we
Speaker 3: emotionally react to somebody's treatment, well that's happening, and if
Speaker 3: it's keeping on keeping, if it's happening, if it's keeping
Speaker 3: on happening, well.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to English with tiff lesson for.
Speaker 3: But if it's going to continue to happen, you have
Speaker 3: to address it right. So you can't. You can't just
Speaker 3: wrestle your emotions. If something is making them react, so
Speaker 3: they're happening. That's the truth. It's your job to go, Okay,
Speaker 3: how do I address this situation? What conversation do I
Speaker 3: need to have? How do I manage my emotions next
Speaker 3: time they rise in the moment? And then how do
Speaker 3: I express that to someone? You did it to me
Speaker 3: in the beginning when I'd made a joke about something
Speaker 3: and you rang me up and said, I know, I'm
Speaker 3: pretty sure you were just joke. You were having a joke,
Speaker 3: but that topic you joked about, you said, that's one
Speaker 3: that's not a good topic for me to feed a
Speaker 3: joke about. So and I remember that I talk about that.
Speaker 3: You're doing that a lot. Because that was a lesson
Speaker 3: for me, I went like, I got goosebumps. Now. I
Speaker 3: was like, I never want someone to feel hurt by
Speaker 3: something i'm joking. Like, if I know that now, so
Speaker 3: I learned. So it's but we don't want to do
Speaker 3: that because it's scary, because it's confronting, because it's a
Speaker 3: difficult conversation. But it's like, well, it's either that or
Speaker 3: you'll continue having the emotional disruption and then you'll fracture
Speaker 3: the relationship and the other person will be a fuck
Speaker 3: and when they're probably really not, it's just not being communicated.
Speaker 1: There's another part to that, which is when you said
Speaker 1: the emotions are real, it's true, they are real, of course,
Speaker 1: but then the question is are they helpful or is
Speaker 1: the emotional response disproportionate to the stimulus, Like is my
Speaker 1: emotional reaction kind of appropriate? You know? It's like you
Speaker 1: might go, I don't know, you might say something offhand,
Speaker 1: a little whatever, and you're not at all, and then
Speaker 1: I lose my shit. Well that's true, I lost my shit.
Speaker 1: I'm angry. That's true, but it's inappropriate. So there's that
Speaker 1: we do need to acknowledge our emotions, but we also
Speaker 1: need to be curious about them, because some of our
Speaker 1: emotions serve us and some of us fucking sabotage us.
Speaker 1: So it's true to say, yes, this emotion is real,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to deny it, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: mean it's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and just because you're having conversation with someone about
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean that they have to change it. Might
Speaker 3: you might just be saying, hey, when this happens, this
Speaker 3: happens for me. I realize that's not a youth thing.
Speaker 3: But I just want you to know so that you
Speaker 3: understand what might be happening for me in that moment.
Speaker 3: And I'm working on that. But that can be a resolve.
Speaker 1: But we.
Speaker 3: Brush things under the carpet and it doesn't fix anything.
Speaker 1: I feel like you and I right now are in
Speaker 1: the middle of a dual therapy session for each other,
Speaker 1: and I definitely am.
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to get some of that shit out
Speaker 3: from under my car. But I've been sweeping under there
Speaker 3: for forty years.
Speaker 1: It is It is really interesting. It is interesting how
Speaker 1: how we think outwardly and how we think inwardly, and
Speaker 1: you know, the stuff that we're happy to share and
Speaker 1: the stuff that we're you know, because we're always are
Speaker 1: we always I think we're kind of always worried about
Speaker 1: how people see us. So because of that, or at
Speaker 1: least aware of how people says, which is not a
Speaker 1: terrible thing, of course. So I think there's you know,
Speaker 1: it's like I said to Zoey Daniel the other day,
Speaker 1: zoe Daniels the other day about like, at the same time,
Speaker 1: she wants to be this real and raw and authentic
Speaker 1: human as we all do, but also she's got this
Speaker 1: brand and this persona, and she's a politician and she's
Speaker 1: in federal government and she's you know, it's like, how
Speaker 1: do you manage that? Because like it or not, there
Speaker 1: is a persona that doesn't mean you're being fake or fraudulent,
Speaker 1: but also underneath that is a real person. And this
Speaker 1: is the this is the line that we walk, especially
Speaker 1: when you and I are not famous and we're no
Speaker 1: big deal, but we have a little tiny voice in,
Speaker 1: you know, in that we do these these things that
Speaker 1: we do these podcasts, and people listen to us, and like,
Speaker 1: you want to be like you simultaneously want to be
Speaker 1: liked and respected and loved and all of those things
Speaker 1: because you're human, but also you want people to know
Speaker 1: you really, you know, like know me like I'm not
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm hopefully like I'm not the guy that's
Speaker 1: just trying to scam you or sell you shit or
Speaker 1: you know, I know I'm not that guy, but you can't.
Speaker 1: Like if you say that, then you sound like an idiot.
Speaker 1: But then if you you know, and in the middle
Speaker 1: of all of this, you know, then somebody will send me, Oh,
Speaker 1: I bet you're not doing those fucking corporate gigs for free. Well, no,
Speaker 1: I actually need to have a job, So that is
Speaker 1: my job. Is that alright with you? Like? What are you?
Speaker 1: You're a plumber? Do you do you clean poo out
Speaker 1: of pipes for free? Or do you charge? You know?
Speaker 1: It's like, what do you want me to do? It's
Speaker 1: like I've done nearly two thousand podcasts for free. I've
Speaker 1: written fucking a trillion post giving free advice and inspiration
Speaker 1: and education for free. I do a lot of shit,
Speaker 1: you know. It's like I can't do everything for free
Speaker 1: because I've got to eat, I've got to pay bills.
Speaker 1: So but what I do do, based on my values
Speaker 1: and my internal sat nab is I pretty much do
Speaker 1: as much free stuff as I can, you know. And
Speaker 1: but beyond that, I just start to fuck up my
Speaker 1: own life, you know. So it doesn't need to be
Speaker 1: one or the other. And I've said this to people before.
Speaker 1: I can go in and do a whole day with
Speaker 1: NAB and charge them a fucking fortune because and I
Speaker 1: never say this, but one I'm good at it, and
Speaker 1: two they can afford it. And bibbity bobbity booth, thanks
Speaker 1: for the dough and they say, thanks, Harps, you were great.
Speaker 1: We're all happy. But then I can go and you know,
Speaker 1: do something else where. It's just that gift of giving
Speaker 1: and it's beautiful and I'm not only am I okay
Speaker 1: with it, it's important to me.
Speaker 3: Me also when the right people are open to that. Okay,
Speaker 3: NAB spending that money anyway, NAB buying someone to do
Speaker 3: that job. So I want to not have a person
Speaker 3: that's going to make a difference.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And well you know, you try to. And
Speaker 1: you think I did that gig last week? Was it
Speaker 1: last week? For I think I told you women in print,
Speaker 1: shout out to the women in print, that was so good.
Speaker 3: That was me for a long time.
Speaker 1: Well what do you mean, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. And they were ace And like you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I just get up there and I talk.
Speaker 1: There's no PowerPoint, there's no I don't half the time,
Speaker 1: like I might have one page with some dot points
Speaker 1: or not. It usually stays in my pocket. And anyway,
Speaker 1: I just talk. And at the end of it, you know,
Speaker 1: everyone's like, the feedback was good. Everyone enjoyed it. And
Speaker 1: I said, you know, did you enjoy that? Yep? Was
Speaker 1: it relevant? Yeah, you know your bits inspired? Yep, that's cool.
Speaker 1: And I go, look, I'm really glad you liked it,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad you liked me because I'm wildly insecure.
Speaker 1: So thank you for liking me and giving me approval.
Speaker 1: But here's what I want to tell you. Actual matters
Speaker 1: me turning up and talking to you for an hour. Really,
Speaker 1: that's me doing a job, and I get money and
Speaker 1: I do my thing. But what I really care about
Speaker 1: is what you do next. And I said, so, I've
Speaker 1: just given you an hour of feared. Life's not a theory.
Speaker 1: And I hope that the feedback's good, and I hope
Speaker 1: people go, oh, that Craig Harper guy was good and
Speaker 1: the whole morning was great, and the Brecky was nice
Speaker 1: and the host you know, and it's all it's a
Speaker 1: good experience and that's great. But really what matters is
Speaker 1: what you do over the next week to five, ten
Speaker 1: twenty weeks, and a few people came up and said
Speaker 1: to me later, thank you for saying that stuff at
Speaker 1: the end, And I said, well, that's the stuff that
Speaker 1: moves the needle. If I tell great stories and I'm
Speaker 1: funny and inspiring and then everybody forgets what I've said
Speaker 1: ten minutes after it's done. Well, you can't apply what
Speaker 1: you can't remember, and if you don't apply it, you
Speaker 1: can't create change. So I want to really impress Yes,
Speaker 1: me turning up doing my job. I'm glad you enjoyed it,
Speaker 1: but that's not important. I'm not important. Even what I
Speaker 1: said is not important unless you can operationalize that to
Speaker 1: create some kind of shift on planet you, which is
Speaker 1: why we do personal and professional development, so that we
Speaker 1: might help people create some kind of shift.
Speaker 3: Hm.
Speaker 1: I feel like we're done. Are we done? We just
Speaker 1: hit the the conversational finish line? Did I see your
Speaker 1: chin touch the tape?
Speaker 3: We've we've just flown past the jack and flag.
Speaker 1: You're like the You're like the gout gout of conversations.
Speaker 1: I was doing great, I was doing great, and you
Speaker 1: just fucking blew by me. And yeah, what's your word again?
Speaker 3: That slipped me happening, happening.
Speaker 1: You just happened right past me.
Speaker 3: I'm going to copyright that word happening.
Speaker 1: I think I don't know who's hosting today, you or me.
Speaker 1: I think you started, but so you can sign off
Speaker 1: for us.
Speaker 3: Thanks everyone, Thanks Harts
Speaker 2: Thanks Tiff, she said, it's now never I got fighting
Speaker 2: in my blood