WEBVTT - Credlin | 2 September

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<v Speaker 1>Peter Credlin, live from News 24.

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<v Speaker 2>Good evening. Welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up

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<v Speaker 2>tonight on Credlin. Pill testing now for illicit drugs is

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<v Speaker 2>permanent in New South Wales. Announcing it today, the Health

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<v Speaker 2>Minister said it's not a silver bullet. Well, no, it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>It sends a shocking mixed signal on illegal drugs. More

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<v Speaker 2>on that in a moment. More to you tonight on

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<v Speaker 2>my exclusive report about an AFP whistleblower and his repeated

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<v Speaker 2>attempts to provide counter-terrorism evidence to the Bondi Royal Commission. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>he was ignored... Well, I've got the texts exchanged and

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<v Speaker 2>the missed call log to prove it. Labor in Victoria

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<v Speaker 2>reportedly ready to swing open the door and lift the

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<v Speaker 2>age of criminal responsibility to 14. Never mind the state's

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<v Speaker 2>in a youth crime crisis. Is this just about winning

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<v Speaker 2>back left voters that they've lost to the Greens? And

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<v Speaker 2>the Treasurer and the Housing Minister back at it today,

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<v Speaker 2>trying to sell those shocking budget changes and downplay the

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<v Speaker 2>damage it's doing to property.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a government which is doing everything it responsibly

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<v Speaker 3>can to build more homes and to make the housing

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<v Speaker 3>market fairer for more Australians.

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<v Speaker 2>The housing market in Australia is inherently cyclical.

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<v Speaker 4>I would ask Australians to step back and take a

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<v Speaker 4>look at the big picture here.

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<v Speaker 2>But first, in an Albanese government that's hardly flush with talent,

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<v Speaker 2>Attorney-General Michelle Rowland seemed to be one of the better ones.

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<v Speaker 2>That was until I heard her comments... alleging Pauline Hanson

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<v Speaker 2>had some sort of culpability for the death threats she

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<v Speaker 2>has received. That's right. As we know, the One Nation

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<v Speaker 2>leader has for a long time been subject to some

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<v Speaker 2>pretty horrific abuse, including but not limited to rape threats

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<v Speaker 2>and threats of political assassination. Threats that I know the

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<v Speaker 2>police take seriously, and so too do the people who

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<v Speaker 2>assist with her security. Now, as AG, Rowland would be

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<v Speaker 2>privy to just how serious these risks are. And yet

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<v Speaker 2>here she is on ABC Radio, basically saying that the

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<v Speaker 2>threats against Hanson are her own fault. If not in full,

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<v Speaker 2>then at least in part. Here she is.

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<v Speaker 4>I would suggest that Senator Hanson should examine what her

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<v Speaker 4>party and what her ideology and her behaviour is doing

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<v Speaker 4>and whether or not that is encouraging that.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, part of the reason Rowland got into this issue

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<v Speaker 2>in the first place was to defend the Prime Minister's

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<v Speaker 2>characterisation of the One Nation leader as dangerous in a

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<v Speaker 2>speech he made on the weekend to the Queensland Labor

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<v Speaker 2>Party State Conference. Here again are those comments from the

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<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister.

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<v Speaker 5>One nation whose leader seeks to divide Australians and talks

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<v Speaker 5>Australia down, whether she is here or overseas, peddling politics

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<v Speaker 5>that is dangerous.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, that's pretty rich commentary coming from a bloke that's

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<v Speaker 2>always urging everybody else to take the temperature down. But

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<v Speaker 2>that's our Prime Minister, isn't it? Quick to say one thing,

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<v Speaker 2>yet when it comes to himself, do the complete opposite.

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<v Speaker 2>But he's not the only hypocrite here. These Labor women

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<v Speaker 2>should be called out, and in this case it's Rowlands

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<v Speaker 2>who deserves the condemnation. Imagine if we went back to

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<v Speaker 2>the days where we told a woman who wore a

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<v Speaker 2>short skirt out at night that she was asking to

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<v Speaker 2>be raped. Imagine that today. Or if we told a

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<v Speaker 2>woman beaten up by her husband that she wouldn't be

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<v Speaker 2>subject to domestic violence if she'd just got up and left.

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<v Speaker 2>Because that's not much different than Rowland's message to Hansen,

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<v Speaker 2>that she should, quote, examine her behaviour, whether she's encouraging

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<v Speaker 2>this behaviour, whether she's encouraging these threats. Now, that's basically,

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<v Speaker 2>let's be blunt here, Hansen wouldn't be getting these death

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<v Speaker 2>threats if she just fell into line with the thinking

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<v Speaker 2>of those who want to kill her or just shut

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<v Speaker 2>up and quit politics. Is that the message? So much

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<v Speaker 2>of this political aggression against Hansen comes from the militant

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<v Speaker 2>activist left. And if proof was ever needed as to

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<v Speaker 2>just how bad things are, have a look at the

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<v Speaker 2>recent murder of the healthcare CEO in New York, allegedly

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<v Speaker 2>motivated by left-wing grievance. Look at the assassination of Charlie Kirk,

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<v Speaker 2>again by someone who disagreed with him, but rather than

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<v Speaker 2>contest his views... This individual allegedly picked up a gun

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<v Speaker 2>and took him out. And whatever your views on Donald Trump,

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<v Speaker 2>no political leader should be subject to repeated assassination attempts.

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<v Speaker 2>In a democracy, we're supposed to settle our disagreements via

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<v Speaker 2>the ballot box, not with bullets. Lover or loather, Pauline

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<v Speaker 2>Hanson is an elected official. Someone who won her seat

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<v Speaker 2>in Parliament fair and square, who has a legitimate platform

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<v Speaker 2>as party leader to put forward her views and her policies.

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<v Speaker 2>And as a human being, the right we all have

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<v Speaker 2>to expect that expressing free speech should not put our

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<v Speaker 2>lives at risk. Now, shame on you, Michelle Rowland. I

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<v Speaker 2>thought you were better than that. I gave you points

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<v Speaker 2>when you were one of the few Labor front bench

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<v Speaker 2>women who didn't go out there and try and excuse

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<v Speaker 2>away the Prime Minister's offensive Melons podcast. But this is worse.

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<v Speaker 2>As Attorney General, you sign off on the security arrangements

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<v Speaker 2>for all politicians. I know you do. And you also

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<v Speaker 2>know personally how bad it is for many of them.

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<v Speaker 2>You know that in a way, that so few Australians do.

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<v Speaker 2>So to make light of the persistent death threats against

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<v Speaker 2>Pauline Hanson and to basically try and blame the potential

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<v Speaker 2>victim here, well, that's reprehensible. Quite honestly, Pauline Hanson deserves

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<v Speaker 2>an apology from you. Now to this decision today by

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<v Speaker 2>the Minns government in New South Wales to roll out

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<v Speaker 2>permanent pill testing at music festivals. Actually, let me say

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<v Speaker 2>that again because I don't want to play the game

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<v Speaker 2>of the left's minimising what's happening here. That announcement today

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<v Speaker 2>in New South Wales that we will see taxpayers spend

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<v Speaker 2>millions of dollars to permanently test illicit drugs so that

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<v Speaker 2>young people can use them illegally. Because that's what's happening here. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>I hear the arguments about harm minimisation, but the best

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<v Speaker 2>way to ensure that you don't die from a drug

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<v Speaker 2>overdose is not to take the drugs in the first place.

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<v Speaker 2>I might be in my 50s, but I'm young enough

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<v Speaker 2>to have grown up in and around the drug culture

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<v Speaker 2>my entire teenage and adult life. I'm no Pollyanna. I've

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<v Speaker 2>been to plenty of parties and events where drugs have

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<v Speaker 2>been freely available. Do you know what? I have never

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<v Speaker 2>ever tried an illicit drug, whatever way you want to

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<v Speaker 2>take it. And the reason I haven't is that thankfully,

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<v Speaker 2>I've never been one to bow to peer pressure. But also,

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<v Speaker 2>there's no way I'd put my life in the hands

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<v Speaker 2>of some bikey gang or dealer that's cooked up a

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<v Speaker 2>pill in some backyard lab and tried to flog it

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<v Speaker 2>to me as some sort of way to enjoy myself

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<v Speaker 2>with friends. As far as I'm concerned, That's been a

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<v Speaker 2>game of Russian roulette that I've never wanted to play.

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<v Speaker 2>And if I ever found myself moving in circles where

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<v Speaker 2>the drugs were too prevalent, well, I just took myself

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<v Speaker 2>out of those circles. Now, if you can't go to

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<v Speaker 2>a music festival and not enjoy the music by itself,

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<v Speaker 2>then ask yourself why. Not that these are music festivals anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>let's be honest. They're just drug events with music thrown in.

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<v Speaker 2>And now the cost to test these drugs on offer

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<v Speaker 2>will be picked up by the poor old taxpayer to

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<v Speaker 2>the tune of $ 4. 5 million for these mobile testing units. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't agree with that in principle, but if you

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<v Speaker 2>want to bring this in, why aren't the organisers who

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<v Speaker 2>make millions from these festivals footing the bill or those

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<v Speaker 2>who buy the drugs? Now, my heart goes out to

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<v Speaker 2>the parents who are routinely co-opted to become advocates for

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<v Speaker 2>pill testing after the tragic loss of one of their

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<v Speaker 2>own children. But if you listen clearly to what these

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<v Speaker 2>parents say, almost all of them wish their children had

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<v Speaker 2>never taken drugs in the first place. And isn't that

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<v Speaker 2>the message we should be sending rather than this mixed

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<v Speaker 2>message that it's somehow safe now to use what's illegal?

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<v Speaker 6>From a drug perspective, you know, it's not worth it.

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<v Speaker 6>It really is not worth it. Don't think it can't

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<v Speaker 6>happen to you because it can. It really can. And

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<v Speaker 6>yours and or your friends' lives can change in an

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<v Speaker 6>instant and it doesn't have to be that way.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, the Prime Minister's in Palau at the Pacific

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<v Speaker 2>Islanders Forum. And today he's just announced a $ 600 million

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<v Speaker 2>package to crack down on illicit drug trafficking through the region,

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<v Speaker 2>which has exploded due to soaring illegal drug use in Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>And yet here we are in Sydney, we've got the

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<v Speaker 2>state government spending taxpayer millions to test these very same

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<v Speaker 2>illegal substances to give our kids a false sense of

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<v Speaker 2>security and that somehow using them is okay. $ 600 million

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<v Speaker 2>of your money to try and keep illicit drugs out,

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<v Speaker 2>yet millions to test them when they get in anyway

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<v Speaker 2>so that they are safe to use. Anyone that demands soaring.

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<v Speaker 2>Illicit drugs need a new pipeline of users to make money.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why they're after your kids and your grandkids, and

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<v Speaker 2>here we are stupidly giving access to them under the

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<v Speaker 2>guise of, quote, safe use. We have all these draconian

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<v Speaker 2>rules now about nicotine and alcohol. They're legal, including warnings

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<v Speaker 2>on wine bottles and early closing hours. And yet illicit drugs, what,

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<v Speaker 2>they're okay? Ask yourself what happens after your kid goes

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<v Speaker 2>away from the festival, decides that they like the sort

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<v Speaker 2>of drugs they've tried, or that they can't cope socially

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<v Speaker 2>anymore without being high. What happens when they buy drugs

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<v Speaker 2>at a party or a nightclub and there is no

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<v Speaker 2>pill testing? It's too late then, isn't it? They are hooked.

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<v Speaker 2>Activists will say this is the argument to legalise illicit

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<v Speaker 2>drugs across the board so that they are safe to

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<v Speaker 2>use anywhere and everywhere. That's the end game here. It

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<v Speaker 2>might start with pill testing and trial at a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of festivals, then that trial, like today, becomes permanent. And

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<v Speaker 2>then the fix will be in to completely decriminalise illicit drugs,

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<v Speaker 2>even the hardcore stuff like heroin and ice, as we've

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<v Speaker 2>already seen in the case of the ACT. Just like

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<v Speaker 2>New South Wales, the ACT started with pill testing as

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<v Speaker 2>a trial, Then it became permanent. And now it's completely

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<v Speaker 2>down the decriminalisation path. And do you know what? Overdoses

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<v Speaker 2>have increased. And we have problems in modern society because

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<v Speaker 2>we've lost our way on so many levels. Too soft

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<v Speaker 2>when our kids refuse to go to school. Too soft

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<v Speaker 2>when adults demand to work from home. And way too

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<v Speaker 2>soft on issues like illicit drugs, which once addiction sets in,

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<v Speaker 2>exacerbates crime, mental health harm, violence and homelessness. Now, I

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<v Speaker 2>can guarantee you that the decision in New South Wales

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<v Speaker 2>will now be used by other Labor states as a

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<v Speaker 2>precedent to do the same where you live. And none

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<v Speaker 2>of that, none of that's going to help future generations

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<v Speaker 2>be the sort of Australians that we need to cope

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<v Speaker 2>with what we know will be a very challenging future.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, let's go to Canberra now for the headlines.

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<v Speaker 2>Political reporter, Ruben Spargo.

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<v Speaker 7>Good evening.

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<v Speaker 8>The Treasurer is touting the resilience of Australia's economy despite

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<v Speaker 8>growing expectations the Reserve Bank could raise interest rates again.

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<v Speaker 8>The economy picked up pace in the three months to June,

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<v Speaker 8>growing 0.4% over the quarter.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a robust result in really challenging international circumstances.

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<v Speaker 9>The small businesses that are going to the wall in

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<v Speaker 9>record numbers don't share Jim Chalmers' enthusiasm.

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<v Speaker 8>Markets are now pricing in a 58% chance of a

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<v Speaker 8>25 basis point rate hike when the Reserve Bank meets

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<v Speaker 8>in around four weeks. The Albanese government is asking Australians

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<v Speaker 8>to take a longer term view as more dire projections

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<v Speaker 8>emerge for the housing market. The Commonwealth Bank has downgraded

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<v Speaker 8>its forecast, tipping Sydney house prices to fall 13% from

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<v Speaker 8>their peak to the expected floor next April.

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<v Speaker 3>People are in a rush to draw conclusions. about the

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<v Speaker 3>next few years based on the last few months.

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<v Speaker 8>Australia's biggest bank expects prices to rebound by the end

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<v Speaker 8>of the year if the Reserve Bank cuts interest rates.

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<v Speaker 8>China is flexing its diplomatic muscle at the Pacific Islands

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<v Speaker 8>Forum as Taiwan again finds itself short on regional support.

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<v Speaker 8>Papua New Guinea has joined Beijing in criticising the decision

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<v Speaker 8>to invite Taiwan to the leaders' meeting.

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<v Speaker 5>It's a matter for the Pacific Islands Forum. who attends

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<v Speaker 5>these matters.

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<v Speaker 8>Taiwan insists there should be no compromise in the face

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<v Speaker 8>of what it describes as Chinese bullying.

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<v Speaker 2>Now to that latest GDP data, which came in slightly

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<v Speaker 2>higher than market expectations, but still relatively weak against a

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<v Speaker 2>bleak economic outlook. Today's figures show the economy grew by 0.4%

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<v Speaker 2>over the June quarter. or 2.1% over last year. And

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<v Speaker 2>it all points to an ongoing economic malaise under the

0:14:10.660 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Albanese government as Labor's record high spending continues. Here to

0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:19.050
<v Speaker 2>discuss this and more, News24 host Jamie Rogers and the

0:14:19.090 --> 0:14:23.930
<v Speaker 2>head of advocacy at Women's Forum Australia, Stephanie Bastian. Well,

0:14:23.970 --> 0:14:26.750
<v Speaker 2>welcome to you both. All of this, of course, Jamie,

0:14:26.770 --> 0:14:29.310
<v Speaker 2>as you can see, is compounding the woes in Australia's

0:14:29.390 --> 0:14:32.690
<v Speaker 2>property market. A treasurer getting a bit snippy there today.

0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.790
<v Speaker 2>but also reports that former Treasury officials were just guessing

0:14:37.210 --> 0:14:41.010
<v Speaker 2>when they were making predictions on price growth. And, of course,

0:14:41.030 --> 0:14:44.650
<v Speaker 2>the government makes decisions based on those projections. They're absolutely

0:14:44.710 --> 0:14:46.740
<v Speaker 2>way out. The government said there'd be no harm here

0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:51.000
<v Speaker 2>or there's harm across the board. You're absolutely right there, Peter.

0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.700
<v Speaker 10>And we constantly hear the modelling says this, the Treasury

0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.170
<v Speaker 10>is assuming this. And it's all these numbers and these

0:14:58.250 --> 0:15:01.530
<v Speaker 10>words are like gospel. And, of course, in that article

0:15:01.570 --> 0:15:03.090
<v Speaker 10>that you were just showing up on the screen, a

0:15:03.510 --> 0:15:05.910
<v Speaker 10>former Treasury official has said that a lot of this

0:15:05.970 --> 0:15:09.460
<v Speaker 10>data looks as though it is based on educated guessers.

0:15:10.060 --> 0:15:14.350
<v Speaker 10>Educated guesses. And this is significant because these educated guesses

0:15:14.470 --> 0:15:16.930
<v Speaker 10>is what the government is going and creating their tax

0:15:16.970 --> 0:15:20.490
<v Speaker 10>policy around. And this is people's largest investment when it

0:15:20.530 --> 0:15:23.470
<v Speaker 10>comes to their housing. So are we any surprised to

0:15:23.530 --> 0:15:25.650
<v Speaker 10>see that the property market is going the way that

0:15:25.690 --> 0:15:29.440
<v Speaker 10>it is when you're using guesses? And the other thing, Peter,

0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.290
<v Speaker 10>which you'd know with your background. It's odd that the

0:15:32.350 --> 0:15:35.630
<v Speaker 10>modelling isn't even available for anyone else to actually look at.

0:15:35.690 --> 0:15:38.360
<v Speaker 10>So we can't even really scrutinise what has gone on

0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.800
<v Speaker 10>behind the scenes. It is all very hazy of what

0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.880
<v Speaker 10>is happening. And normally when you're creating policy, you look

0:15:44.900 --> 0:15:47.840
<v Speaker 10>at evidence and data and then go and create it.

0:15:47.970 --> 0:15:50.190
<v Speaker 10>But it looks as though in this case, Jim Chalmers

0:15:50.290 --> 0:15:54.070
<v Speaker 10>and the Albanese government wanted to create this policy and

0:15:54.090 --> 0:15:56.890
<v Speaker 10>then they've gone and used the Treasury modelling to back

0:15:56.950 --> 0:15:57.630
<v Speaker 10>up that decision.

0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.200
<v Speaker 2>And look, you don't even have to be a macroeconomist.

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.180
<v Speaker 2>Go back in history. When Labor did this the last

0:16:04.220 --> 0:16:07.780
<v Speaker 2>time under Paul Keating's death, everyone knows they had to

0:16:07.820 --> 0:16:13.360
<v Speaker 2>reverse it within two years because the anticipated uplift for

0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.620
<v Speaker 2>investment properties in the housing market more broadly didn't eventuate.

0:16:16.660 --> 0:16:19.140
<v Speaker 2>Things went backwards at a rate of knots, pretty much

0:16:19.180 --> 0:16:22.080
<v Speaker 2>like what's happening now, and there was a massive backflip.

0:16:22.100 --> 0:16:24.180
<v Speaker 2>And I think this is where I know he loves

0:16:24.250 --> 0:16:26.850
<v Speaker 2>Jim Chalmers, I know he loves Paul Keating, but But

0:16:26.870 --> 0:16:29.130
<v Speaker 2>this is where I think he's going to emulate his

0:16:29.190 --> 0:16:31.170
<v Speaker 2>hero in the worst possible way.

0:16:32.590 --> 0:16:34.850
<v Speaker 11>Absolutely. I mean, there's a huge gap in their modelling

0:16:34.890 --> 0:16:38.410
<v Speaker 11>as well, 2% versus the reality that's looking like 18%

0:16:38.410 --> 0:16:42.070
<v Speaker 11>in New South Wales. I mean, the modelling is so poor.

0:16:42.090 --> 0:16:45.530
<v Speaker 11>They should release it, as Jamie said. The truth of

0:16:45.570 --> 0:16:48.070
<v Speaker 11>the matter is this policy, it's been put together to

0:16:48.130 --> 0:16:50.490
<v Speaker 11>try and, you know, they've pitched it as helping young

0:16:50.530 --> 0:16:52.650
<v Speaker 11>people get into their homes, but it's actually hurting the

0:16:52.690 --> 0:16:55.390
<v Speaker 11>people that have scrimped and saved and got into the market.

0:16:55.670 --> 0:16:57.320
<v Speaker 11>They're the ones that are suffering. If the government was

0:16:57.380 --> 0:17:01.980
<v Speaker 11>serious about getting young people and, you know, middle and

0:17:02.060 --> 0:17:04.840
<v Speaker 11>income earners into homes, they should be cutting the costs

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:06.840
<v Speaker 11>of building. They should be cutting the red tape. They

0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.420
<v Speaker 11>should be cutting the taxes associated with it, but they're

0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.470
<v Speaker 11>not doing that because they're addicted to spending. Instead, they've

0:17:12.510 --> 0:17:16.230
<v Speaker 11>sort of, they're using this blunt approach policy force to

0:17:16.250 --> 0:17:18.169
<v Speaker 11>fix a 30-year problem and it's backfiring.

0:17:20.010 --> 0:17:22.209
<v Speaker 2>Let's go to those comments today, JV, from the Premier,

0:17:22.330 --> 0:17:26.810
<v Speaker 2>Ben Carroll in Victoria, defending how he handled the secret

0:17:26.869 --> 0:17:32.690
<v Speaker 2>decision to basically levy poor old transport users in Victoria

0:17:32.710 --> 0:17:36.220
<v Speaker 2>to the tune of $ 8 billion after it's been revealed

0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.700
<v Speaker 2>today that it was actually disclosed to the full Cabinet

0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:40.689
<v Speaker 2>that And he's the Deputy Premier, so he was in

0:17:40.730 --> 0:17:44.050
<v Speaker 2>the room more than two years ago. He was pressed

0:17:44.130 --> 0:17:47.580
<v Speaker 2>on this today by our reporter, Georgia Dickinson. Have a listen.

0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:50.340
<v Speaker 12>Were people not doing their job properly, that is, they

0:17:50.380 --> 0:17:53.240
<v Speaker 12>weren't reading the Cabinet briefing documents in June 2024?

0:17:53.220 --> 0:17:55.440
<v Speaker 2>No-one seemed to know about this charge until now.

0:17:56.260 --> 0:17:59.899
<v Speaker 9>It's very unfair to say something was put in a

0:17:59.980 --> 0:18:04.399
<v Speaker 9>Cabinet minute that was decided on seven months earlier.

0:18:04.420 --> 0:18:05.840
<v Speaker 11>It was unfair for Victorians not to have known that

0:18:05.859 --> 0:18:06.760
<v Speaker 11>they were paying that secret money.

0:18:06.820 --> 0:18:09.780
<v Speaker 9>It was unfair from the very first day that that

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:15.300
<v Speaker 9>cabinet meeting occurred with Andrews, Pellis and Allen and Molino

0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:19.140
<v Speaker 9>in 2021, they should have said, this is what we're

0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.639
<v Speaker 9>looking at and being transparent with the public.

0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, the opposition leader, Jess Wilson, wasn't going to cop that.

0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:28.680
<v Speaker 2>Have a listen to her.

0:18:28.700 --> 0:18:34.020
<v Speaker 13>This is an utter disgrace and it demonstrates that this

0:18:34.140 --> 0:18:37.359
<v Speaker 13>Premier is not only weak, but he is a liar.

0:18:37.940 --> 0:18:40.320
<v Speaker 13>He's looking Victorians in the eye and saying, I have

0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.899
<v Speaker 13>no knowledge of this secret tax. Despite the fact there

0:18:43.940 --> 0:18:47.639
<v Speaker 13>are cabinet documents that demonstrate that he was briefed. You

0:18:47.740 --> 0:18:49.540
<v Speaker 13>simply cannot trust him.

0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.780
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Jamie, he was the Minister for Public Transport

0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.399
<v Speaker 2>when this thing was made. It was held back, not

0:18:58.420 --> 0:19:01.520
<v Speaker 2>implemented at the time, but he was the minister. And then,

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.540
<v Speaker 2>of course, he's sitting there in the Cabinet table. I

0:19:03.740 --> 0:19:05.840
<v Speaker 2>don't buy that rubbish that he doesn't read his papers.

0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.000
<v Speaker 2>If he's not reading his papers, he doesn't deserve the

0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.110
<v Speaker 2>salary and he's bloody incompetent. But let's say he did

0:19:11.190 --> 0:19:13.310
<v Speaker 2>read the papers and he did know in the room, well,

0:19:13.330 --> 0:19:15.650
<v Speaker 2>Jess Wilson's right, he is a liar.

0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.340
<v Speaker 10>Jess Wilson was spot on there and good questioning by

0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.980
<v Speaker 10>Georgie as well, because that was my thinking that Ben Carroll,

0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.859
<v Speaker 10>he was there when it was implemented in 2023 as

0:19:25.900 --> 0:19:30.270
<v Speaker 10>the deputy premier. Gabrielle Williams was also there as transport minister. Now,

0:19:30.330 --> 0:19:33.290
<v Speaker 10>the two of them either sat there and listened to

0:19:33.390 --> 0:19:37.070
<v Speaker 10>this potential levy getting in and they stayed silent or

0:19:37.410 --> 0:19:39.929
<v Speaker 10>they weren't across their cabinet papers. And when you look

0:19:39.950 --> 0:19:42.350
<v Speaker 10>at those two options, I don't know what's worse. And

0:19:42.470 --> 0:19:44.679
<v Speaker 10>I think Jess Wilson is spot on that he is

0:19:44.820 --> 0:19:47.350
<v Speaker 10>a liar and just needs to be up front with

0:19:47.460 --> 0:19:49.050
<v Speaker 10>the Victorian public because.

0:19:48.830 --> 0:19:49.970
<v Speaker 2>You get caught out at press conferences.

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.340
<v Speaker 10>Like this because Georgie has done her homework and people

0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.540
<v Speaker 10>will now continue to ask questions until he tells the truth.

0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.340
<v Speaker 2>Steph, I opened the show with this tonight, Attorney General

0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:05.330
<v Speaker 2>Michelle Rowland. actually suggesting that Pauline Hanson's to blame for

0:20:05.369 --> 0:20:08.889
<v Speaker 2>threats of violence against her. This is what the Attorney-General

0:20:08.930 --> 0:20:10.570
<v Speaker 2>said on ABC Radio yesterday.

0:20:10.590 --> 0:20:16.020
<v Speaker 4>I would suggest that Senator Hanson should examine what her

0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:20.480
<v Speaker 4>party and what her ideology and her behaviour is doing

0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:22.560
<v Speaker 4>and whether or not that is encouraging that.

0:20:24.970 --> 0:20:26.030
<v Speaker 2>I think this is outrageous.

0:20:27.170 --> 0:20:27.730
<v Speaker 7>Oh, me too.

0:20:27.770 --> 0:20:30.030
<v Speaker 11>It's an absolute disgrace. What we're seeing here is a

0:20:30.090 --> 0:20:33.760
<v Speaker 11>rise in the radical left, and this sort of rhetoric

0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:37.000
<v Speaker 11>condones their move towards political violence. We're seeing this, we

0:20:37.020 --> 0:20:39.940
<v Speaker 11>saw this just last weekend with Sal Grover and Kiralee Smith,

0:20:40.300 --> 0:20:43.240
<v Speaker 11>where they were threatened with murder by a trans activist

0:20:43.300 --> 0:20:46.780
<v Speaker 11>on social media. We saw schoolchildren marching around the capital

0:20:46.820 --> 0:20:50.310
<v Speaker 11>cities calling for Pauline's death, and there have been alleged

0:20:50.530 --> 0:20:56.020
<v Speaker 11>firebombings in Melbourne for Jewish-associated businesses linked to Israel-led Israeli

0:20:56.100 --> 0:20:59.340
<v Speaker 11>weapon making. What we're seeing is this increase of political

0:20:59.380 --> 0:21:02.460
<v Speaker 11>violence or threats of political violence, and it's been called

0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:03.480
<v Speaker 11>political resistance.

0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:04.260
<v Speaker 2>It's not.

0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.520
<v Speaker 11>And Michelle Rowland should, first of all, apologise for those comments,

0:21:07.869 --> 0:21:10.469
<v Speaker 11>but also come out and condemn the violence because it's

0:21:10.530 --> 0:21:13.850
<v Speaker 11>not long before these words turn into actions.

0:21:13.970 --> 0:21:17.710
<v Speaker 2>It's a disgrace. And I'll make the point again that

0:21:17.970 --> 0:21:21.650
<v Speaker 2>the protection of politicians, their officers and their personal protection

0:21:21.670 --> 0:21:25.219
<v Speaker 2>is the use of close personal protection, AFP offices, is

0:21:25.460 --> 0:21:28.939
<v Speaker 2>all under Michelle Rowland's remit. So she knows exactly how

0:21:29.020 --> 0:21:31.720
<v Speaker 2>serious this is. And I note this afternoon I spoke

0:21:31.790 --> 0:21:34.429
<v Speaker 2>to someone inside One Nation and they had an event

0:21:34.570 --> 0:21:38.909
<v Speaker 2>in Melbourne on Sunday to announce candidates. Unfortunately, they've had

0:21:38.950 --> 0:21:42.330
<v Speaker 2>to cancel that because of security concerns. So it impacts,

0:21:43.050 --> 0:21:46.250
<v Speaker 2>I think, our access as voters to our politicians. I

0:21:46.270 --> 0:21:49.330
<v Speaker 2>think that's been a rare blessing in Australia, but I

0:21:49.350 --> 0:21:51.750
<v Speaker 2>think that will now change. Thank you to you both.

0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:54.510
<v Speaker 2>Let's go now back to the issue that I broke

0:21:54.570 --> 0:21:59.669
<v Speaker 2>at the start of the week, this AFP whistleblower discussing

0:21:59.750 --> 0:22:05.200
<v Speaker 2>counter-terrorism capability deficiencies well and truly prior to Bondi, putting

0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:08.380
<v Speaker 2>that information up the chain of command in the AFP,

0:22:08.900 --> 0:22:12.920
<v Speaker 2>then putting in a submission to the Bondi Royal Commission asking,

0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.740
<v Speaker 2>pleading to give evidence. Well, I now have some text

0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:21.630
<v Speaker 2>exchanges that show just how hard he pushed the staff

0:22:21.750 --> 0:22:25.050
<v Speaker 2>at the commission. in order to appear, as well as

0:22:25.090 --> 0:22:28.210
<v Speaker 2>the written submission. But it was all for nothing. Today,

0:22:28.250 --> 0:22:31.250
<v Speaker 2>the opposition leader, Angus Taylor, referenced his story when he

0:22:31.850 --> 0:22:35.700
<v Speaker 2>reiterated calls for the Royal Commission to be extended. He said,

0:22:35.740 --> 0:22:38.939
<v Speaker 2>thanks to a former AFP whistleblower, we now know that

0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:43.960
<v Speaker 2>there was extreme pressure on counter-terrorism resources at the time.

0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:47.850
<v Speaker 2>Here to discuss it further, Legal Affairs Contributor at The Australian,

0:22:47.900 --> 0:22:50.750
<v Speaker 2>Chris Merritt. We'll start with the submission, then I want

0:22:50.770 --> 0:22:53.290
<v Speaker 2>to move on to the whole principle of responsible government.

0:22:53.410 --> 0:22:57.030
<v Speaker 2>You've watched how this has played out this week, Chris. This,

0:22:57.410 --> 0:23:00.830
<v Speaker 2>I think, is a serious omission for the Royal Commission.

0:23:00.850 --> 0:23:03.530
<v Speaker 2>Does it justify it being reopened?

0:23:05.510 --> 0:23:09.970
<v Speaker 1>I think it does, particularly in the light of what

0:23:10.030 --> 0:23:16.820
<v Speaker 1>we now know about this problem. The Royal Commission... If

0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:20.560
<v Speaker 1>you look at its interim report, it reached some conclusions

0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:25.359
<v Speaker 1>about the resourcing, the adequacy of the resourcing of the

0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:29.560
<v Speaker 1>counter-terrorism work at the AFP, but they're not in that

0:23:29.619 --> 0:23:34.429
<v Speaker 1>interim report. They're secret. There's a separate secret edition of

0:23:34.470 --> 0:23:39.109
<v Speaker 1>this report in which the Royal Commission weighs up the

0:23:39.150 --> 0:23:43.129
<v Speaker 1>resources and the workload and comes to a conclusion that

0:23:43.730 --> 0:23:48.090
<v Speaker 1>Those assessments have been shared with the federal government and

0:23:48.270 --> 0:23:52.580
<v Speaker 1>all state governments, but they have not been made public. Now,

0:23:52.619 --> 0:24:00.260
<v Speaker 1>what we've got is a former senior counter-terrorism officer prepared

0:24:00.340 --> 0:24:04.639
<v Speaker 1>to cast light on that issue, that entire issue, and

0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:07.870
<v Speaker 1>he has not been called. Even if the Commission were

0:24:07.910 --> 0:24:13.840
<v Speaker 1>to talk to him in private... and subject his assessments

0:24:13.859 --> 0:24:18.580
<v Speaker 1>to checking with those who might have a different view

0:24:18.859 --> 0:24:21.879
<v Speaker 1>and do that in private, that would be beneficial. It

0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:26.350
<v Speaker 1>would inform the final report. But on its current practice,

0:24:27.710 --> 0:24:31.410
<v Speaker 1>there's a risk that the final report of this commission

0:24:31.510 --> 0:24:36.449
<v Speaker 1>might again adopt this secrecy approach and not share with

0:24:36.490 --> 0:24:40.340
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the community a proper assessment about whether

0:24:40.380 --> 0:24:46.360
<v Speaker 1>the resources available to the AFP's counter-terrorism work were adequate

0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:52.540
<v Speaker 1>when you weigh it against the increasing workload since October 7, 2023.

0:24:52.540 --> 0:24:58.639
<v Speaker 1>And that's spelled out in great detail in the interim report.

0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:01.890
<v Speaker 1>There's been a big increase, but it says that the

0:25:01.950 --> 0:25:08.419
<v Speaker 1>resources over recent years have been relatively stable. So we've

0:25:08.460 --> 0:25:14.140
<v Speaker 1>got relatively stable resources, an increasing workload and a secret

0:25:14.220 --> 0:25:19.250
<v Speaker 1>conclusion as to what this means. And really it makes

0:25:19.290 --> 0:25:24.390
<v Speaker 1>it very difficult to adopt the position I had adopted,

0:25:24.470 --> 0:25:28.189
<v Speaker 1>which was trying to wait until the commission finished its

0:25:28.270 --> 0:25:31.710
<v Speaker 1>work before reaching a conclusion. But we've already seen a

0:25:32.430 --> 0:25:36.700
<v Speaker 1>number of serious decisions taken which are very worrying.

0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:45.770
<v Speaker 2>So what concerns me, and I think that extrapolation of

0:25:46.130 --> 0:25:49.669
<v Speaker 2>the issues is correct, Chris, but what concerns me, you

0:25:49.710 --> 0:25:58.700
<v Speaker 2>mentioned there basically the steady flow of resourcing. The steady

0:25:58.740 --> 0:26:01.859
<v Speaker 2>flow of resourcing in my mind is not enough to

0:26:02.460 --> 0:26:05.399
<v Speaker 2>considering the events we've had around the world and in

0:26:05.460 --> 0:26:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Australia over the last three years since October 7. It's

0:26:08.900 --> 0:26:11.199
<v Speaker 2>not enough when we've taken the terror threat in this

0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:15.400
<v Speaker 2>country from possible to probable. I don't want to see

0:26:15.540 --> 0:26:19.340
<v Speaker 2>static resources, you know, no loss of resources. I actually

0:26:19.380 --> 0:26:23.399
<v Speaker 2>want to see a heavy increase of resources. And there are,

0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:29.300
<v Speaker 2>you know, specific detail in that whistleblower's submission that says

0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:33.889
<v Speaker 2>when they're talking about the terrorist's that these counter-terrorism police

0:26:33.910 --> 0:26:38.010
<v Speaker 2>were supposed to monitor, you've got 20 would-be terrorists to

0:26:38.150 --> 0:26:43.570
<v Speaker 2>one officer. You've got a 38% reduction in capability in

0:26:43.690 --> 0:26:47.570
<v Speaker 2>CT in New South Wales. 18 months they were warned

0:26:47.609 --> 0:26:50.189
<v Speaker 2>about that. For 18 months they were told about that

0:26:50.230 --> 0:26:53.869
<v Speaker 2>deficiency and then you've got Bondi. Can you only imagine

0:26:54.010 --> 0:26:58.679
<v Speaker 2>if they had remedied that 38% and perhaps even increased it?

0:26:59.430 --> 0:27:02.379
<v Speaker 2>if that had all happened prior to the events of December,

0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:06.179
<v Speaker 2>would we have lost 15 Australians? And that's what the

0:27:06.220 --> 0:27:07.500
<v Speaker 2>Royal Commissioner needs to tell us.

0:27:08.460 --> 0:27:08.980
<v Speaker 7>I agree.

0:27:10.040 --> 0:27:13.060
<v Speaker 1>But on the material that's already on the public record,

0:27:13.700 --> 0:27:18.139
<v Speaker 1>not just the submission from this whistleblower, but the detail,

0:27:18.160 --> 0:27:22.850
<v Speaker 1>the facts in the interim report, the only conclusion you

0:27:22.869 --> 0:27:27.190
<v Speaker 1>can draw from that is that the workload has outpaced

0:27:27.430 --> 0:27:29.629
<v Speaker 1>the resources. The resources stayed stable.

0:27:29.650 --> 0:27:30.510
<v Speaker 2>There's no doubt about that.

0:27:31.690 --> 0:27:36.130
<v Speaker 1>Now, that's consistent with the main points that this whistleblower

0:27:36.230 --> 0:27:41.619
<v Speaker 1>is making. Now, I'm dumbfounded that that hasn't been taken

0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:42.800
<v Speaker 1>on board by the Commission.

0:27:44.300 --> 0:27:46.260
<v Speaker 2>Can I just say something about that interim report too?

0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:48.699
<v Speaker 2>The interim report is from the Royal Commissioner. So this

0:27:48.760 --> 0:27:52.310
<v Speaker 2>is Virginia Bell's interim report. But when she talks about

0:27:52.390 --> 0:27:57.610
<v Speaker 2>all the Canberra bureaucracy and the agencies of the counter-terrorism resourcing,

0:27:58.230 --> 0:28:02.510
<v Speaker 2>that's been informed by the Richardson inquiry, which was not

0:28:02.570 --> 0:28:07.190
<v Speaker 2>conducted under Royal Commission powers. So no ability to compel

0:28:07.330 --> 0:28:12.270
<v Speaker 2>witnesses or documents. People only participated voluntarily. They did not

0:28:12.410 --> 0:28:15.690
<v Speaker 2>have immunity. So I question and I, you know, I

0:28:16.230 --> 0:28:20.399
<v Speaker 2>do think Dennis Richardson's an eminent public servant. But if

0:28:20.420 --> 0:28:22.440
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't have the powers to get to the bottom

0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:26.219
<v Speaker 2>of it, and that's the bulk of the basis of

0:28:26.350 --> 0:28:30.550
<v Speaker 2>her interim report, and she's not called herself any of

0:28:30.590 --> 0:28:34.230
<v Speaker 2>these individuals, she has not herself, at least to our knowledge,

0:28:34.290 --> 0:28:38.870
<v Speaker 2>interrogated any of the papers and the people behind the

0:28:38.930 --> 0:28:43.070
<v Speaker 2>Richardson inquiry, then how on earth does this have the

0:28:43.110 --> 0:28:47.540
<v Speaker 2>veracity that we all should be expecting about a Royal Commission.

0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:48.260
<v Speaker 6>How?

0:28:48.520 --> 0:28:51.220
<v Speaker 2>I mean, she's called the head of Netball Australia, mate,

0:28:51.580 --> 0:28:54.270
<v Speaker 2>the head of Netball Australia and not the head of

0:28:54.310 --> 0:28:57.050
<v Speaker 2>the AFP. That's just not credible.

0:28:58.350 --> 0:29:02.310
<v Speaker 1>Look, Peter, I share your concerns. The whole point of

0:29:02.370 --> 0:29:05.750
<v Speaker 1>holding a Royal Commission is the use of coercive power

0:29:05.810 --> 0:29:08.730
<v Speaker 1>to get to the truth. Otherwise, don't bother. If you're

0:29:08.760 --> 0:29:11.720
<v Speaker 1>not going to use those coercive powers, just have a

0:29:11.780 --> 0:29:17.660
<v Speaker 1>departmental report done and be done with it. it just,

0:29:17.880 --> 0:29:19.520
<v Speaker 1>it's dumbfounding, as I've said before.

0:29:21.240 --> 0:29:22.740
<v Speaker 2>I just want to put up on screen so people

0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:26.160
<v Speaker 2>can see. These are the messages, text exchanges that the

0:29:26.180 --> 0:29:29.780
<v Speaker 2>whistleblower has provided to me. They go back to April.

0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:33.510
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he has been fighting with the Secretariat of

0:29:33.550 --> 0:29:36.330
<v Speaker 2>this Royal Commission to come in and tell them what

0:29:36.390 --> 0:29:40.710
<v Speaker 2>he knows since April, and only towards the the end

0:29:41.250 --> 0:29:43.810
<v Speaker 2>of July was he told, put in a submission, which

0:29:43.890 --> 0:29:46.750
<v Speaker 2>he did, he truly did, he put it in, in August,

0:29:47.030 --> 0:29:49.950
<v Speaker 2>hoping that might mean he'd be called before them, but

0:29:49.990 --> 0:29:52.790
<v Speaker 2>he was not. So, I mean, this has a very,

0:29:52.930 --> 0:29:56.610
<v Speaker 2>very long tail and I am not giving up. I

0:29:56.630 --> 0:29:58.390
<v Speaker 2>want to grab you before you go, if I can.

0:29:58.550 --> 0:30:01.270
<v Speaker 2>Ben Robert Smith, today we learned that he'll finally be

0:30:01.290 --> 0:30:04.120
<v Speaker 2>allowed to see the secret evidence against him ahead of

0:30:04.150 --> 0:30:08.360
<v Speaker 2>this war crimes trial. Now, I think it's extraordinary. It's

0:30:08.400 --> 0:30:11.740
<v Speaker 2>a fundamental tenet of justice that you get to see

0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:15.920
<v Speaker 2>the detail of the charges and the evidence behind the

0:30:15.960 --> 0:30:18.920
<v Speaker 2>accusations made against you. But he can only get this

0:30:18.960 --> 0:30:22.420
<v Speaker 2>information because he had to fight for it after a

0:30:22.460 --> 0:30:23.219
<v Speaker 2>judge's ruling.

0:30:24.780 --> 0:30:28.640
<v Speaker 1>It comes five months after he was taken off that

0:30:28.700 --> 0:30:33.070
<v Speaker 1>aeroplane and charged, as we all saw. It is fundamental

0:30:33.170 --> 0:30:36.950
<v Speaker 1>to criminal justice that you must know what the case

0:30:37.110 --> 0:30:40.130
<v Speaker 1>is against you. The fact that it's taken five months

0:30:40.230 --> 0:30:44.450
<v Speaker 1>to get to this point, it just delays the entire process.

0:30:44.860 --> 0:30:47.700
<v Speaker 1>The whole point about criminal justice is it should be quick.

0:30:48.100 --> 0:30:51.580
<v Speaker 1>It should be prompt. So this is five months wasted

0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:55.160
<v Speaker 1>where his legal team could have been working on on

0:30:55.220 --> 0:30:58.460
<v Speaker 1>his defence, at least we all have the comfort of

0:30:58.560 --> 0:31:01.240
<v Speaker 1>knowing that the trial itself is not going to happen,

0:31:01.300 --> 0:31:06.790
<v Speaker 1>I think until 28 on the current speculation. So yes,

0:31:07.030 --> 0:31:09.990
<v Speaker 1>it's good that it's happened. It should have happened earlier.

0:31:10.010 --> 0:31:15.830
<v Speaker 1>A proper criminal trial cannot proceed unless the defendant has

0:31:16.170 --> 0:31:19.790
<v Speaker 1>all the information that the prosecution is going to put

0:31:19.850 --> 0:31:20.330
<v Speaker 1>against them.

0:31:22.450 --> 0:31:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, again, this one, Worries me enormously about the state

0:31:26.700 --> 0:31:29.780
<v Speaker 2>of justice in this country. Thank you, Chris Merritt. After

0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:31.500
<v Speaker 2>the break, more on the decision out of New South

0:31:31.540 --> 0:31:35.570
<v Speaker 2>Wales on pill testing at festivals, plus Labor in Victoria.

0:31:36.050 --> 0:31:38.150
<v Speaker 2>It wants to open the door again to raising the

0:31:38.190 --> 0:31:41.830
<v Speaker 2>age of criminal responsibility. This is the state with that

0:31:41.990 --> 0:31:51.860
<v Speaker 2>massive youth crime crisis. That's next. Welcome back. We'll cross

0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:54.660
<v Speaker 2>to the UK shortly. Keir Starmer's pulled the pin, but

0:31:55.540 --> 0:32:00.570
<v Speaker 2>his successor, he's blaming everything now on Thatcher. Now, she

0:32:00.610 --> 0:32:03.370
<v Speaker 2>left a long, long, what, 40 years ago? It's all

0:32:03.390 --> 0:32:07.110
<v Speaker 2>Thatcher's fault, according to the new Labor Prime Minister. Let's

0:32:07.150 --> 0:32:09.150
<v Speaker 2>go back, though, now to the issue of pill testing

0:32:09.170 --> 0:32:11.610
<v Speaker 2>and the announcement today. Out of New South Wales, they'll

0:32:11.630 --> 0:32:15.800
<v Speaker 2>spend $ 4. 5 million to expand pill testing, make it permanent.

0:32:16.280 --> 0:32:20.720
<v Speaker 2>at 15 music festivals across the year. This follows the trial.

0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:25.580
<v Speaker 2>They say the trial resulted in fewer hospitalisations. Well, let's

0:32:25.620 --> 0:32:28.770
<v Speaker 2>see about that. Joining me now, this and other things

0:32:28.790 --> 0:32:31.770
<v Speaker 2>we'll cover as well, of course, former Victorian homicide detective

0:32:31.830 --> 0:32:35.870
<v Speaker 2>Charlie Bozzina. This really does my head in, right, because

0:32:36.310 --> 0:32:38.850
<v Speaker 2>I made the point at the top of the show. Yes,

0:32:38.930 --> 0:32:40.910
<v Speaker 2>I'm old. People watching here will go, she's an old lady.

0:32:40.930 --> 0:32:44.240
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't know anything about drugs. All my teenage life, right,

0:32:44.610 --> 0:32:47.530
<v Speaker 2>all my adult life, I have been around drugs, Charlie,

0:32:48.030 --> 0:32:51.690
<v Speaker 2>and I've never tried anything because not that I'm a

0:32:51.750 --> 0:32:54.830
<v Speaker 2>perfect angel, but it's Russian roulette. I'm not going to

0:32:54.870 --> 0:32:57.910
<v Speaker 2>put something in my mouth given to me, you know,

0:32:58.140 --> 0:33:00.980
<v Speaker 2>at an event somewhere, cooked up in a lab by

0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:05.140
<v Speaker 2>some bikey drug dealer and play the game where I

0:33:05.180 --> 0:33:09.090
<v Speaker 2>could end up with brain damage, heart attack or die.

0:33:09.110 --> 0:33:09.610
<v Speaker 7>Correct.

0:33:09.900 --> 0:33:15.500
<v Speaker 2>So why is the government now... basically giving these dealers

0:33:16.200 --> 0:33:19.100
<v Speaker 2>a product to sell where they can say at these festivals,

0:33:19.500 --> 0:33:22.530
<v Speaker 2>don't worry, I've had it tested over there, my gear's good,

0:33:22.640 --> 0:33:24.510
<v Speaker 2>don't buy his gear. That's what we're doing.

0:33:24.690 --> 0:33:26.770
<v Speaker 14>I couldn't agree more because I'm old school like you

0:33:26.910 --> 0:33:30.070
<v Speaker 14>and ultimately why do we become responsible for these people

0:33:30.090 --> 0:33:32.550
<v Speaker 14>making a decision one way or the other? They're adult people,

0:33:32.930 --> 0:33:36.160
<v Speaker 14>teenage into adult. They can make decisions right or wrong.

0:33:36.180 --> 0:33:37.520
<v Speaker 14>You're going to take this, it's going to kill you.

0:33:38.210 --> 0:33:41.290
<v Speaker 14>And ultimately, OK, interestingly enough, now New South Wales are

0:33:41.310 --> 0:33:43.910
<v Speaker 14>taking it up. Victoria's had it for a while. But

0:33:44.170 --> 0:33:46.730
<v Speaker 14>interestingly enough, the exemption only comes when they go into

0:33:46.750 --> 0:33:48.250
<v Speaker 14>a drug testing station.

0:33:48.570 --> 0:33:51.170
<v Speaker 7>If you're backstage, you can still be charged. But I'll

0:33:51.210 --> 0:33:51.910
<v Speaker 7>mark my words.

0:33:51.950 --> 0:33:52.630
<v Speaker 2>No one will be charged.

0:33:52.670 --> 0:33:52.990
<v Speaker 1>Correct.

0:33:53.020 --> 0:33:55.990
<v Speaker 14>Because police are told it's open slather for the whole lot.

0:33:56.230 --> 0:33:57.300
<v Speaker 14>It's a health issue.

0:33:57.380 --> 0:34:00.760
<v Speaker 7>Softly, softly. And why are we footing the bill for it?

0:34:01.260 --> 0:34:04.580
<v Speaker 2>I know exactly what happens at the drug testing. injecting

0:34:04.620 --> 0:34:08.100
<v Speaker 2>room near where I live in Richmond. People are walking around.

0:34:08.440 --> 0:34:10.700
<v Speaker 2>I see it every single day I go to the gym.

0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:13.919
<v Speaker 2>I see them openly dealing, right? I see the prostitution

0:34:13.960 --> 0:34:16.620
<v Speaker 2>that's going on in order to score a hit. This

0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:19.800
<v Speaker 2>is at 10am in the morning. I see people handing

0:34:19.860 --> 0:34:23.880
<v Speaker 2>over bags. The police are powerless. There's a police station

0:34:23.920 --> 0:34:26.780
<v Speaker 2>just down the corner on Church Street. They're powerless because

0:34:26.820 --> 0:34:30.820
<v Speaker 2>they know if people are walking into an injecting room

0:34:30.900 --> 0:34:34.279
<v Speaker 2>to inject heroin or ice, They've got to get their drugs.

0:34:34.300 --> 0:34:36.860
<v Speaker 2>So they turn a blind eye. This is wrong.

0:34:36.980 --> 0:34:37.700
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, very much so.

0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:40.900
<v Speaker 14>And I've spoken to actually neighbours living in here. This

0:34:40.920 --> 0:34:43.859
<v Speaker 14>particular lady actually moved out. She was across the road

0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:44.840
<v Speaker 14>from the drug injecting.

0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:45.500
<v Speaker 7>She moved out.

0:34:45.820 --> 0:34:48.260
<v Speaker 14>And if you recall years ago, they were actually charged

0:34:48.300 --> 0:34:51.500
<v Speaker 14>with drug trafficking within the facility. And where's the control?

0:34:51.540 --> 0:34:54.140
<v Speaker 14>But it stays there next to a school. And ultimately

0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:55.330
<v Speaker 14>we're bowing down to them.

0:34:55.370 --> 0:34:56.130
<v Speaker 7>It's a health issue.

0:34:56.469 --> 0:34:59.290
<v Speaker 14>And thank goodness the one in Flinders Street that was

0:34:59.610 --> 0:35:01.129
<v Speaker 14>considered some time ago hasn't opened.

0:35:01.910 --> 0:35:04.649
<v Speaker 7>Drug injecting rooms, do they work? Realistically, no.

0:35:04.670 --> 0:35:08.270
<v Speaker 14>But at the end of the day, you're just pattering

0:35:08.350 --> 0:35:11.689
<v Speaker 14>up the whole situation and not addressing the concern.

0:35:11.390 --> 0:35:11.880
<v Speaker 7>Or the problem.

0:35:12.010 --> 0:35:13.969
<v Speaker 2>And what worries me, right, so you send this signal

0:35:13.989 --> 0:35:15.700
<v Speaker 2>to the kid that goes to the festival or the

0:35:15.719 --> 0:35:18.020
<v Speaker 2>young adult, they buy their gear, they get hooked, they

0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:21.320
<v Speaker 2>love it. They can't go out socially now without getting high.

0:35:21.920 --> 0:35:24.520
<v Speaker 2>But they're somewhere like a nightclub or a party, the

0:35:24.540 --> 0:35:26.940
<v Speaker 2>gear's being sold to them, it's not tested.

0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Correct.

0:35:27.680 --> 0:35:28.839
<v Speaker 2>And they end up in trouble, right?

0:35:28.860 --> 0:35:28.940
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.

0:35:29.400 --> 0:35:33.350
<v Speaker 2>You're not saving them. You're, in fact, enabling addiction at

0:35:34.130 --> 0:35:38.350
<v Speaker 2>these festivals. Life won't have a pill-testing unit every time

0:35:38.410 --> 0:35:41.790
<v Speaker 2>someone offers you something you should not take. It requires backbone.

0:35:41.810 --> 0:35:45.009
<v Speaker 2>It requires us teaching our kids to walk away. You know,

0:35:45.090 --> 0:35:47.109
<v Speaker 2>change your friend group if you have to.

0:35:47.130 --> 0:35:47.470
<v Speaker 7>Correct.

0:35:47.570 --> 0:35:49.450
<v Speaker 2>But if you have to get high to enjoy life,

0:35:50.010 --> 0:35:51.370
<v Speaker 2>it's a very sorry place to live.

0:35:51.450 --> 0:35:52.550
<v Speaker 7>And you're giving them confidence.

0:35:52.930 --> 0:35:55.610
<v Speaker 14>I went to this music festival and, geez, that was

0:35:55.820 --> 0:35:58.589
<v Speaker 14>quite nice and it was okay for me to take. Well,

0:35:58.790 --> 0:36:00.770
<v Speaker 14>I've got the same supplier, but that doesn't mean they're

0:36:00.790 --> 0:36:02.290
<v Speaker 14>still cutting it with rubbish and all this stuff.

0:36:02.390 --> 0:36:03.170
<v Speaker 7>They didn't make a dollar.

0:36:03.190 --> 0:36:04.010
<v Speaker 2>Yes, red sack and everything.

0:36:04.110 --> 0:36:05.910
<v Speaker 7>Do they care about your welfare? Of course they don't.

0:36:05.950 --> 0:36:07.980
<v Speaker 7>Drug dealers don't. They didn't make a dollar. If you die,

0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:08.580
<v Speaker 7>they don't care.

0:36:08.860 --> 0:36:10.140
<v Speaker 2>And, of course, the madness is, you know, if I

0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:12.239
<v Speaker 2>walk into the injecting room, I could stick a needle

0:36:12.280 --> 0:36:15.200
<v Speaker 2>in my arm with an illegal substance, but if I

0:36:15.320 --> 0:36:18.319
<v Speaker 2>open my handbag and put out a cigarette, that would

0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:20.680
<v Speaker 2>be stomped on because, you know, we've got all these

0:36:20.739 --> 0:36:23.549
<v Speaker 2>regulations around cigarettes, Charlie, but we've got open slather on

0:36:23.570 --> 0:36:26.319
<v Speaker 2>illicit drugs. Hey, I've got to ask you, give me

0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:30.700
<v Speaker 2>your take on Labor looking again to lift the age

0:36:30.739 --> 0:36:32.960
<v Speaker 2>of criminal responsibility to 14. What do you think?

0:36:33.780 --> 0:36:35.040
<v Speaker 7>Absolutely nonsensical.

0:36:35.840 --> 0:36:38.950
<v Speaker 14>You look at every... The only other state... Big button.

0:36:39.180 --> 0:36:44.290
<v Speaker 14>ACT is 14. Every other state and territory is 10.

0:36:44.290 --> 0:36:46.169
<v Speaker 7>We're currently 12 years of age here.

0:36:46.930 --> 0:36:50.569
<v Speaker 14>We are the leaders in youth crime, yet Carol wants

0:36:50.590 --> 0:36:52.920
<v Speaker 14>to bring up the 14... And he's saying, oh, the

0:36:52.980 --> 0:36:53.779
<v Speaker 14>human rights issue.

0:36:54.040 --> 0:36:55.320
<v Speaker 7>Why are all.

0:36:55.140 --> 0:36:59.700
<v Speaker 14>These other states and territory in Australia wrong, but this

0:36:59.739 --> 0:37:01.379
<v Speaker 14>current government is right by saying we're going to raid?

0:37:01.540 --> 0:37:02.900
<v Speaker 7>You know why? Because it's self-serving.

0:37:03.060 --> 0:37:05.859
<v Speaker 14>Because the less people police can lock up, the less

0:37:05.900 --> 0:37:08.580
<v Speaker 14>money they need to spend on incarceration of these people.

0:37:09.280 --> 0:37:11.160
<v Speaker 2>And does this go to the comments today from the

0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:16.090
<v Speaker 2>new police commissioner, Mike Bush, where he says to police officers,

0:37:16.270 --> 0:37:18.690
<v Speaker 2>I know the jails are overcrowded or the remand centres

0:37:18.730 --> 0:37:22.050
<v Speaker 2>are overcrowded, but I want you to keep people behind

0:37:22.110 --> 0:37:25.069
<v Speaker 2>bars if you think they should be. Don't feel the

0:37:25.110 --> 0:37:28.279
<v Speaker 2>pressure because you haven't got enough room because, you know,

0:37:28.300 --> 0:37:31.140
<v Speaker 2>Victoria's got too many crooks to let them out. Is

0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:31.959
<v Speaker 2>that what this is about?

0:37:32.040 --> 0:37:34.060
<v Speaker 14>Yeah, very much so because ultimately the police are doing

0:37:34.080 --> 0:37:36.819
<v Speaker 14>their job. Now, people have got to realise that the

0:37:36.880 --> 0:37:40.080
<v Speaker 14>police jails, the police cells are gazetted jails that can

0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:42.560
<v Speaker 14>only hold prisoners there for three, four days and they're

0:37:42.580 --> 0:37:44.819
<v Speaker 14>going to move along. Why does the fact that police

0:37:44.840 --> 0:37:47.560
<v Speaker 14>are doing such a good job and the ineptness of

0:37:47.620 --> 0:37:49.260
<v Speaker 14>the government becomes a police problem?

0:37:49.700 --> 0:37:53.560
<v Speaker 7>It's a corrections problem. They are remanded. Bail is refused.

0:37:53.900 --> 0:37:55.259
<v Speaker 14>Get them out of my cells, put them in the

0:37:55.300 --> 0:37:56.750
<v Speaker 14>corrections system where they should be.

0:37:57.190 --> 0:37:59.549
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, don't stop the police putting them in there if

0:37:59.590 --> 0:38:00.330
<v Speaker 2>they should be in there.

0:38:00.410 --> 0:38:00.569
<v Speaker 5>Correct.

0:38:01.080 --> 0:38:02.819
<v Speaker 2>Work out what you do with them after they've been caught.

0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:04.620
<v Speaker 14>Government puts pressure on the police. Police are under the

0:38:04.660 --> 0:38:07.360
<v Speaker 14>pump all the time. It's not their problem. Same as

0:38:07.380 --> 0:38:09.700
<v Speaker 14>the smokes and all this stuff. We've got the illegal tobacco.

0:38:09.960 --> 0:38:12.320
<v Speaker 14>It's not a police problem, but it's a government problem,

0:38:12.380 --> 0:38:15.340
<v Speaker 14>a federal government, now a state government problem. Police are

0:38:15.360 --> 0:38:17.360
<v Speaker 14>locking them up, but we've got nowhere to put them

0:38:17.390 --> 0:38:18.470
<v Speaker 14>because you're not collecting them enough.

0:38:18.590 --> 0:38:21.629
<v Speaker 7>Get extra vans. You've got Port Phillip. You've closed that.

0:38:21.730 --> 0:38:22.830
<v Speaker 7>Open it up. Put them in there.

0:38:23.070 --> 0:38:25.810
<v Speaker 2>Quick one. Prisoners out there doing potholes.

0:38:26.310 --> 0:38:28.890
<v Speaker 7>What a joke. Now, interestingly enough.

0:38:29.400 --> 0:38:31.279
<v Speaker 14>It's not going to work for a start because of

0:38:31.320 --> 0:38:33.219
<v Speaker 14>all the other issues that are involved. But when you

0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:37.960
<v Speaker 14>think about it, it's a law that all traffic fines

0:38:38.000 --> 0:38:41.469
<v Speaker 14>and traffic cameras, the revenue by law must go to

0:38:41.550 --> 0:38:46.489
<v Speaker 14>road rehabilitation. Annually it creates $ 837 million.

0:38:46.790 --> 0:38:47.690
<v Speaker 7>Now that's being sharpened.

0:38:47.710 --> 0:38:48.910
<v Speaker 2>So where's that money going?

0:38:48.930 --> 0:38:49.190
<v Speaker 5>Correct.

0:38:49.370 --> 0:38:50.030
<v Speaker 7>Ask the question.

0:38:50.420 --> 0:38:53.120
<v Speaker 14>When you get a chance, ask a question, and Carol

0:38:53.140 --> 0:38:56.440
<v Speaker 14>was a Roads Minister. Now, that money's been siphoned everywhere.

0:38:56.440 --> 0:38:58.450
<v Speaker 7>$ 837 million annually. This is why you're a good detective.

0:38:58.469 --> 0:38:59.810
<v Speaker 2>Look at you, you've gone right down that.

0:38:59.989 --> 0:39:03.330
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, so ultimately, we could... The roads could be fixed

0:39:03.350 --> 0:39:05.169
<v Speaker 7>for $ 830. Where's that money gone?

0:39:05.750 --> 0:39:08.100
<v Speaker 2>Right-o, that's tomorrow's job. Charlie Bussino, good to see you.

0:39:08.110 --> 0:39:08.970
<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:10.200
<v Speaker 2>As I said, there you go. That's why he was

0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:12.799
<v Speaker 2>a detective, wasn't he? Right into the detail. Quick break.

0:39:12.860 --> 0:39:15.279
<v Speaker 2>After the break, we'll go to the UK. Starmer's quit

0:39:15.300 --> 0:39:17.830
<v Speaker 2>the Parliament. The new PM says, as I said before,

0:39:17.890 --> 0:39:20.980
<v Speaker 2>it's all Thatcher's fault. He's not ruling out new taxes, though.

0:39:21.340 --> 0:39:23.799
<v Speaker 2>And Harry and Meghan, they want a nine-bedroom house, but

0:39:24.060 --> 0:39:33.859
<v Speaker 2>no one wants to be their servants. That's next. welcome

0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:35.779
<v Speaker 2>back kel coming up as always but now to the

0:39:35.880 --> 0:39:39.299
<v Speaker 2>uk where sakir's tama finally announced he'll officially step down

0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:42.879
<v Speaker 2>as an mp triggering a by-election in his london seat

0:39:43.430 --> 0:39:46.530
<v Speaker 2>and prompting the first major test for his successor, Andy Burnham.

0:39:46.930 --> 0:39:49.550
<v Speaker 2>Here to discuss it and all that, and more, Megan

0:39:49.590 --> 0:39:53.650
<v Speaker 2>and Harry as well, News24 contributor, News Corp Australia's European correspondent,

0:39:53.670 --> 0:39:57.640
<v Speaker 2>Sophie Ellsworth. Well, not unexpected, of course, he's lost the job,

0:39:57.719 --> 0:39:59.220
<v Speaker 2>but this will be a big test for Burnham.

0:40:01.540 --> 0:40:04.310
<v Speaker 12>It will indeed, Peter. We heard from the Prime Minister

0:40:04.430 --> 0:40:07.850
<v Speaker 12>here in London yesterday in the House of Commons for

0:40:07.870 --> 0:40:11.540
<v Speaker 12>the first time since he took the keys to 10

0:40:11.540 --> 0:40:15.400
<v Speaker 12>Downing Street. Now, today he'll be answering questions in the

0:40:15.440 --> 0:40:18.400
<v Speaker 12>House of Commons. But there's a lot of unknown with

0:40:18.500 --> 0:40:21.450
<v Speaker 12>Andy Burnham because, as we know, he came into office

0:40:22.050 --> 0:40:25.989
<v Speaker 12>relatively quickly. He wasn't an MP until he won that by-election.

0:40:26.070 --> 0:40:28.450
<v Speaker 12>And we don't know a lot of what he's going

0:40:28.489 --> 0:40:30.730
<v Speaker 12>to do because he hasn't had to come in with

0:40:30.770 --> 0:40:35.009
<v Speaker 12>a mandate. So there's very much unknown territory ahead. But

0:40:35.030 --> 0:40:38.730
<v Speaker 12>there's certainly concerns with him making remarks, Peter, that he's

0:40:38.770 --> 0:40:42.340
<v Speaker 12>blaming issues here in the U.K., on former Prime Minister

0:40:42.380 --> 0:40:46.219
<v Speaker 12>Margaret Thatcher, who left office nearly four decades ago, and

0:40:46.280 --> 0:40:49.420
<v Speaker 12>also Brexit. So it certainly is an interesting time.

0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:54.700
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's clutching for straws there because I think nowadays

0:40:55.100 --> 0:40:58.620
<v Speaker 2>there'd be as many people that adore Thatcher as hated

0:40:58.660 --> 0:41:00.919
<v Speaker 2>her in those old days. I know in the north

0:41:00.940 --> 0:41:03.640
<v Speaker 2>there's still a bit of a legacy, but broadly speaking,

0:41:03.680 --> 0:41:06.770
<v Speaker 2>they look like the golden years for Britain. He's not

0:41:06.810 --> 0:41:08.340
<v Speaker 2>ruling out extra taxes too, is he?

0:41:10.469 --> 0:41:13.330
<v Speaker 12>He certainly hasn't ruled out extra taxes and we have

0:41:13.410 --> 0:41:17.790
<v Speaker 12>the budget here in late October. So that's to come.

0:41:18.469 --> 0:41:21.960
<v Speaker 12>But interestingly too, Peter, there was a poll out in

0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:25.240
<v Speaker 12>the last few days that showed Labor is ahead here

0:41:25.660 --> 0:41:30.620
<v Speaker 12>with about 26% of support followed by the Tories and

0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:35.759
<v Speaker 12>reform coming in third, which is really interesting. that conservatives

0:41:35.820 --> 0:41:39.469
<v Speaker 12>are coming in second now. So the race is tightening up,

0:41:39.510 --> 0:41:41.669
<v Speaker 12>but Peter, as you know, there is an awfully long

0:41:41.710 --> 0:41:44.340
<v Speaker 12>time until there is, there has to be a general

0:41:44.380 --> 0:41:48.300
<v Speaker 12>election here, which is not until 2029.

0:41:49.390 --> 0:41:51.750
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I remind people it's first past the post

0:41:51.870 --> 0:41:55.980
<v Speaker 2>in the UK, so no torturous preferential flows to worry about. Hey,

0:41:56.020 --> 0:41:58.900
<v Speaker 2>let's go to those two rogue royals who are back

0:41:59.620 --> 0:42:02.759
<v Speaker 2>in the UK, Harry and Meghan. This is interesting. She's

0:42:02.800 --> 0:42:06.660
<v Speaker 2>got a long list for this new UK home. No

0:42:06.760 --> 0:42:09.009
<v Speaker 2>idea how they're going to pay for it, Sophie. I'm

0:42:09.050 --> 0:42:12.230
<v Speaker 2>sure you'll tell us. But there's also not that many

0:42:12.270 --> 0:42:14.310
<v Speaker 2>people who want to work for Meghan Markle.

0:42:16.400 --> 0:42:18.520
<v Speaker 12>Well, they're certainly not, Peter. I mean, she has a

0:42:18.560 --> 0:42:21.980
<v Speaker 12>reputation for being a very difficult woman and I don't

0:42:22.000 --> 0:42:24.500
<v Speaker 12>think there'll be hordes of people queuing to work for

0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:27.660
<v Speaker 12>the Sussexes because, as we know, they're always in damage

0:42:27.719 --> 0:42:31.150
<v Speaker 12>control and they appear to be very difficult people to

0:42:31.190 --> 0:42:34.550
<v Speaker 12>get along with. Now, they're looking for accommodation here. Latest

0:42:34.590 --> 0:42:37.910
<v Speaker 12>reports say they'll be living somewhere in the Cotswolds. They

0:42:37.950 --> 0:42:41.049
<v Speaker 12>will be non-working royals. But I don't think there'll be

0:42:41.070 --> 0:42:44.300
<v Speaker 12>a lot of Britons wanting to work for Meghan Markle

0:42:44.360 --> 0:42:47.200
<v Speaker 12>in particular. And Peter, we know they have a long

0:42:47.280 --> 0:42:51.970
<v Speaker 12>way to go until they can win back the support

0:42:52.010 --> 0:42:54.630
<v Speaker 12>of the British public because they are certainly out of

0:42:54.750 --> 0:42:55.930
<v Speaker 12>favour here right now.

0:42:57.730 --> 0:43:00.049
<v Speaker 2>Now, just before you go, Sophie, you look fetching and

0:43:00.090 --> 0:43:03.540
<v Speaker 2>you look to me like a Stuart Tartan, but not

0:43:03.739 --> 0:43:07.040
<v Speaker 2>exactly the Stuart Tartan. But you're outside the Houses of

0:43:07.080 --> 0:43:10.910
<v Speaker 2>Parliament there. You're on some dirt, I'd have to call it.

0:43:11.219 --> 0:43:13.469
<v Speaker 2>That's usually the parliamentary lawn, isn't it?

0:43:15.450 --> 0:43:16.070
<v Speaker 1>It is, Peter.

0:43:16.130 --> 0:43:18.920
<v Speaker 12>As you can see behind me, there's Big Ben, there's

0:43:19.020 --> 0:43:23.200
<v Speaker 12>the Houses of Parliament. It's awfully dry here. It actually,

0:43:23.260 --> 0:43:25.180
<v Speaker 12>believe it or not, there's a little bit of spit

0:43:25.239 --> 0:43:28.350
<v Speaker 12>in the air dripping down on me now. And heaven forbid,

0:43:28.390 --> 0:43:31.029
<v Speaker 12>we do need rain here. They don't seem to like

0:43:31.070 --> 0:43:33.589
<v Speaker 12>to water grass here in the UK because they don't

0:43:33.670 --> 0:43:36.550
<v Speaker 12>normally need to bother. But it is very, very dry.

0:43:36.590 --> 0:43:38.680
<v Speaker 12>So hopefully there is some rain ahead.

0:43:40.320 --> 0:43:42.560
<v Speaker 2>I knew I could ask you for a weather forecast

0:43:42.580 --> 0:43:45.690
<v Speaker 2>because you, like me, are a country girl from Western Victoria,

0:43:45.730 --> 0:43:49.410
<v Speaker 2>so you're all over the, you know, the meteorology as

0:43:49.450 --> 0:43:51.509
<v Speaker 2>we go to air. Thanks. So good to see you.

0:43:51.530 --> 0:43:53.960
<v Speaker 2>All right, after the break, Kel Richards with words for

0:43:53.980 --> 0:44:02.759
<v Speaker 2>the week. All right, let's bring him straight in, the

0:44:02.800 --> 0:44:05.989
<v Speaker 2>wonderful Kel Richards who joins me every Wednesday. We discuss

0:44:06.030 --> 0:44:09.510
<v Speaker 2>words and phrases and alliterations and synonyms and the whole

0:44:09.570 --> 0:44:14.170
<v Speaker 2>box and dice. Today as I was writing my editorial,

0:44:14.190 --> 0:44:16.830
<v Speaker 2>and this one I'll tell viewers comes from me, and

0:44:16.850 --> 0:44:19.570
<v Speaker 2>I was interchangeably using, this is in relation to the

0:44:19.590 --> 0:44:22.960
<v Speaker 2>pill testing stuff out of New South Wales, illicit and illegal.

0:44:22.980 --> 0:44:25.020
<v Speaker 2>And I thought, wouldn't it be good, we might put

0:44:25.040 --> 0:44:27.500
<v Speaker 2>that on the show tonight because what's the difference, Kel,

0:44:27.520 --> 0:44:29.660
<v Speaker 2>between illicit and illegal?

0:44:30.180 --> 0:44:33.760
<v Speaker 15>They're clearly closely related, but illicit is a broad term

0:44:34.160 --> 0:44:37.980
<v Speaker 15>and illegal is a narrow term. Illicit was coined in

0:44:37.980 --> 0:44:42.160
<v Speaker 15>1606 and illegal a bit later, 1624. Illegal means what

0:44:42.200 --> 0:44:47.260
<v Speaker 15>it sounds like, unlawful, violating a specific law. But illicit

0:44:47.300 --> 0:44:53.390
<v Speaker 15>means that plus violating community expectations, community standards, community rules,

0:44:53.700 --> 0:44:57.450
<v Speaker 15>the wider range of things. So etymologically, illicit is very broad,

0:44:57.790 --> 0:44:58.630
<v Speaker 15>illegal is narrow.

0:45:00.250 --> 0:45:02.930
<v Speaker 2>So it's got sort of a moral component to it.

0:45:02.989 --> 0:45:07.610
<v Speaker 15>Yes, and a cultural one. If you offend people culturally,

0:45:07.650 --> 0:45:11.009
<v Speaker 15>this is not decent in our society. That can be

0:45:11.030 --> 0:45:11.720
<v Speaker 15>called illicit.

0:45:13.340 --> 0:45:14.700
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, there'll be a lot more things that I'll

0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:17.080
<v Speaker 2>be calling illicit from here on in. Hey, let's go

0:45:17.120 --> 0:45:21.239
<v Speaker 2>to tenterhooks. Ray wants to know why people claim to

0:45:21.280 --> 0:45:23.399
<v Speaker 2>be on tenterhooks. Where's that one come from?

0:45:23.719 --> 0:45:27.440
<v Speaker 15>Tenterhooks were hooks. They were either bent nails or spikes.

0:45:28.030 --> 0:45:31.610
<v Speaker 15>on which fabric was stretched really taut in order to

0:45:31.690 --> 0:45:34.680
<v Speaker 15>dry and cure. This often happened in the open air

0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:38.640
<v Speaker 15>in fields, hence the New South Wales country town of Tenterfield.

0:45:39.640 --> 0:45:42.460
<v Speaker 15>And if your nerves are stretched really taut, then you

0:45:42.500 --> 0:45:46.470
<v Speaker 15>are metaphorically on tenterhooks. And by the way, if you

0:45:46.489 --> 0:45:49.730
<v Speaker 15>put up a canvas structure, which is anchored to the

0:45:49.770 --> 0:45:53.830
<v Speaker 15>ground with spikes, you put up a tent. All of

0:45:53.870 --> 0:45:54.790
<v Speaker 15>them related words.

0:45:56.530 --> 0:45:58.690
<v Speaker 2>So it's not just about trying to dry out leather.

0:45:58.750 --> 0:46:00.090
<v Speaker 2>It was fabric and other things.

0:46:00.230 --> 0:46:01.529
<v Speaker 7>Yes, yes, yes.

0:46:02.910 --> 0:46:05.950
<v Speaker 2>OK, well, Roger wants to know the origin of the

0:46:06.050 --> 0:46:08.290
<v Speaker 2>phrase for crying out loud.

0:46:08.950 --> 0:46:11.330
<v Speaker 15>This one is interesting in the sense that it's a

0:46:11.410 --> 0:46:13.890
<v Speaker 15>softened blasphemy. And there's a whole lot of expressions in

0:46:13.930 --> 0:46:18.400
<v Speaker 15>English which were coined specifically to avoid being blasphemous. Now,

0:46:18.420 --> 0:46:22.319
<v Speaker 15>this one tries to imitate the consonant sounds and the

0:46:22.380 --> 0:46:26.730
<v Speaker 15>rhythm of a very offensive blasphemy, for Christ's sake. so

0:46:26.750 --> 0:46:29.130
<v Speaker 15>that you could use this instead of saying that to

0:46:29.190 --> 0:46:32.360
<v Speaker 15>express exasperation. And we happen to know who coined this one,

0:46:32.780 --> 0:46:35.939
<v Speaker 15>because this was coined by an American cartoonist named Tad

0:46:36.000 --> 0:46:38.360
<v Speaker 15>Dorgan in New York in the early years of the

0:46:38.380 --> 0:46:41.540
<v Speaker 15>20th century. Tad Dorgan has coined a lot of expressions.

0:46:42.180 --> 0:46:44.360
<v Speaker 15>He was, just as a by-the-by, he's the man who

0:46:44.400 --> 0:46:47.370
<v Speaker 15>coined the expression hot dog. He was doing a cartoon

0:46:47.710 --> 0:46:50.850
<v Speaker 15>with a sausage dog, a dachshund, in a bread roll.

0:46:51.230 --> 0:46:53.310
<v Speaker 15>And then when he was doing the caption, he realised

0:46:53.350 --> 0:46:55.489
<v Speaker 15>he didn't know how to spell Duxland. So he wrote

0:46:55.530 --> 0:46:58.050
<v Speaker 15>hot dog underneath it. And they've been called hot dogs

0:46:58.140 --> 0:46:58.839
<v Speaker 15>ever since.

0:47:00.420 --> 0:47:03.219
<v Speaker 2>I've got one of those dogs. I like that. You've

0:47:03.580 --> 0:47:07.420
<v Speaker 2>brought my little boy Hendrix into the show. We discussed

0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:09.779
<v Speaker 2>a country mile last week. We had one of our

0:47:09.820 --> 0:47:12.580
<v Speaker 2>viewers who wanted to know, is a country mile, this

0:47:12.739 --> 0:47:16.260
<v Speaker 2>is Mark, different from a city mile. And we talked

0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:19.360
<v Speaker 2>about that. You've got an update though from Someone else,

0:47:19.380 --> 0:47:19.820
<v Speaker 2>I think.

0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:24.080
<v Speaker 15>Yes, one of our viewers did some historical research. We've

0:47:24.120 --> 0:47:27.300
<v Speaker 15>got a panel of experts helping us here on this program, Peter.

0:47:27.680 --> 0:47:29.000
<v Speaker 15>And he wrote in to tell me.

0:47:29.480 --> 0:47:30.530
<v Speaker 7>You're not wrong. Yes.

0:47:30.660 --> 0:47:32.830
<v Speaker 15>The earliest mile was a Roman mile back in the

0:47:32.870 --> 0:47:35.150
<v Speaker 15>days of the Roman Empire. And a Roman mile was

0:47:35.150 --> 0:47:39.450
<v Speaker 15>1,000 steps by a Roman soldier. A step was left, right, left.

0:47:39.750 --> 0:47:42.090
<v Speaker 15>That was taken to be five feet. So a Roman

0:47:42.110 --> 0:47:46.440
<v Speaker 15>mile was 5,000 feet. But in the country, farmers didn't

0:47:46.500 --> 0:47:51.200
<v Speaker 15>count feet. They counted fields. And when they passed eight fields,

0:47:51.540 --> 0:47:54.509
<v Speaker 15>they said that's one mile. So a country mile was

0:47:54.770 --> 0:47:57.700
<v Speaker 15>eight fields. Then when they had to regularize it, measure it,

0:47:58.110 --> 0:47:59.930
<v Speaker 15>what they did was they made the assumption that one

0:48:00.010 --> 0:48:03.410
<v Speaker 15>field equaled one furlong. So a country mile was eight

0:48:03.469 --> 0:48:07.319
<v Speaker 15>fields or eight furlongs. And eight furlongs adds up.

0:48:07.280 --> 0:48:07.640
<v Speaker 7>To 5,280 feet.

0:48:07.660 --> 0:48:12.980
<v Speaker 15>That was the original country mile. That is our mile.

0:48:13.260 --> 0:48:18.040
<v Speaker 15>It became the standard mile and replaced the shorter Roman mile.

0:48:18.420 --> 0:48:21.520
<v Speaker 15>So that's the story. Furlongs to fields to the mile

0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:24.300
<v Speaker 15>we have today. The country mile won. It now took over.

0:48:25.570 --> 0:48:28.370
<v Speaker 2>Wow, wow, wow. I am blessed to say that I

0:48:28.410 --> 0:48:31.610
<v Speaker 2>grew up in the metric era because... All the various

0:48:31.670 --> 0:48:36.469
<v Speaker 2>numbers of feet versus inches versus pounds versus stones versus furlongs.

0:48:37.030 --> 0:48:39.549
<v Speaker 2>I would never. Well, I do remember learning a little

0:48:39.570 --> 0:48:43.590
<v Speaker 2>bit about them in primary school, but gone from memory. Thanks, Kel.

0:48:43.750 --> 0:48:47.330
<v Speaker 2>Send your words in to oswords.com.au. We need some new

0:48:47.370 --> 0:48:49.969
<v Speaker 2>words for next week. That's it for me, though. Here's

0:48:49.989 --> 0:48:50.489
<v Speaker 2>the Bolt Report.