WEBVTT - Defence v prosecution in the Erin Patterson mushroom trial

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Wednesday, June eighteen, twenty twenty five. The sprawling Middle

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<v Speaker 1>East crisis hits a new gear today after Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 1>left the G seven meeting early and missed his meeting

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<v Speaker 1>with Anthony Albanezi to focus on the Iran Israel war.

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<v Speaker 1>This story's moving fast and you can read the latest

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<v Speaker 1>from our correspondents on the ground, Jonnie Bashan and Leam Mendez,

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<v Speaker 1>plus all the world's best reporting and analysis right now

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<v Speaker 1>at The Australian dot Com dot you. The Crown doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>have a motive for Aaron Patterson's alleged murder of her

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<v Speaker 1>family members, but the prosecutors say they have proved Aaron

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<v Speaker 1>Patterson deliberately poisoned them. The defense says that lack of

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<v Speaker 1>an alleged motive means she's not guilty. Today the closing

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<v Speaker 1>arguments in the Mushroom trial, brought to you by Voice Actors.

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<v Speaker 1>If Aaron Patterson deliberately poisoned her elderly relatives, what's the motive?

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<v Speaker 1>And if it was all a terrible accident, how does

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<v Speaker 1>she explain her lies? That's the nub of this week's

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<v Speaker 1>action in the mushroom trial in the Victorian Supreme Court,

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<v Speaker 1>sitting in the Latrobe Valley, where this fifty year old

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<v Speaker 1>mother of two is pleading not guilty to three counts

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<v Speaker 1>of murder and one of attempted murder. Aaron Patterson doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>have to prove anything. The onus is all on the

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<v Speaker 1>Crown to convince the jury that not only did her

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<v Speaker 1>actions result in three deaths, Don and Gale Patterson and

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<v Speaker 1>Heather Wilkinson, and one very serious illness Ian Wilkinson, but

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<v Speaker 1>that this wasn't just reckless or foolish, it was deliberate.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the essential component of murder. In a moment, will

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<v Speaker 1>take you to the defense closing argument by Colin Man.

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<v Speaker 1>But first, here's how the Crown has set out its

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<v Speaker 1>closing to the jury in the past two days. Doctor

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<v Speaker 1>Nannette Roger's sc is the Crown prosecutor. We've used a

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<v Speaker 1>voice actor to bring you her words and all the

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<v Speaker 1>words spoken in court.

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<v Speaker 2>At the heart of this case are four calculated deceptions

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<v Speaker 2>made by the accused. The first deception was the fabricated

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<v Speaker 2>cancer claim she used as a pretense for the lunch invitation.

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<v Speaker 2>The second deception was the lethal doses of poison the

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<v Speaker 2>accused secreted in the home cooked beef Wellington's. The third

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<v Speaker 2>deception was her attempts to make it seem that she

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<v Speaker 2>also suffered death cap mushroom poisoning. And fourthly, the fourth

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<v Speaker 2>deception the sustained cover up she embarked upon to conceal

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<v Speaker 2>the truth.

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<v Speaker 1>The Crown hasn't come up with a motive for Patterson's

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<v Speaker 1>alleged crimes, and it doesn't have to. The Crown only

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<v Speaker 1>has to convince the jury beyond reasonable doubt that her

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<v Speaker 1>actions were premeditated and intentional. If you've been following the trial,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll remember the message exchanges Erin Patterson had with her

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<v Speaker 1>mother in law Gail and her husband Simon in the

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<v Speaker 1>days before the lunch.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi, Gail, I had a needle biopsy taken of the

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<v Speaker 3>lump and I'm returning for an MIRI next week and

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<v Speaker 3>we'll know more after the results of those two things.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, Erin, how did you get on yesterday with your

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<v Speaker 1>medical tests?

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<v Speaker 4>Love, Don and Gail.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a bit to digest with everything that's come out

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<v Speaker 3>of it all. I might talk more about it with

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<v Speaker 3>you both when I see you in person. Love Erin

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<v Speaker 3>the Crown says Patterson was telling bald faced lies.

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<v Speaker 2>She didn't think her lunch guests would live to reveal it.

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<v Speaker 2>Her lie would die with them.

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<v Speaker 1>But Ian Wilkinson, Erin's uncle by marriage and a pastor

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<v Speaker 1>at the local Baptist church, live to tell his tale.

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<v Speaker 2>Ian Wilkinson told you after the lunch, Aaron announced she

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<v Speaker 2>had cancer. She said she was very concerned because she

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<v Speaker 2>believed it was very serious, life threatening. She was anxious

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<v Speaker 2>about telling the kids. She was asking our advice about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Should I tell the kids or not tell the kids

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<v Speaker 2>about this threat to my life. She spoke about a

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<v Speaker 2>diagnostic test that showed a spot on the scan that

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<v Speaker 2>was a tumor. He led a prayer asking for God's

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<v Speaker 2>blessing and that she'd have the wisdom in how she

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<v Speaker 2>told the kids.

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<v Speaker 1>Rogers said Simon's father, Don, before he died, would reveal

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<v Speaker 1>to his son.

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<v Speaker 2>What the accused had told them. That she'd had some

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<v Speaker 2>tests on her elbow which had led to the discovery

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<v Speaker 2>of ovarian cancer. A positive cancer diagnosis is what Don

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<v Speaker 2>told Simon.

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron Patterson said in her time in the witness box,

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<v Speaker 1>she never gave them a definite diagnosis, only that cancer

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<v Speaker 1>was a possibility. She said she really did have plans

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<v Speaker 1>for surgery, but it was a gastric bypass that she

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<v Speaker 1>was too embarrassed to discuss.

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<v Speaker 2>This was an elaborate lie.

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<v Speaker 1>Nanett Rogers told the jury Aaron Patterson knowingly concealed enough

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<v Speaker 1>deathcap mushrooms in the individual beef Wellington's to kill each

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<v Speaker 1>of her lunch guests.

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<v Speaker 2>She made sure she would not suffer the same fate

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<v Speaker 2>as her lunch guests by making herself an individual beef

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<v Speaker 2>Wellington that did not contain any death cap mushrooms. The

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<v Speaker 2>sinister deception was to use a nourishing meal as the

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<v Speaker 2>vehicle to deliver the deadly poison.

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<v Speaker 1>Patterson told a Child Protective Services officer she'd never made

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<v Speaker 1>beef wellington before, but used a recipe from Nagi Mayhashi's

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<v Speaker 1>recipe Tin Eats cookbook because she wanted to do something fancy.

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<v Speaker 1>Rogers said that recipe called for a single beef Wellington

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<v Speaker 1>meat encased in layers of mushroom paste and pastry to

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<v Speaker 1>be sliced up, not individual Wellington's, as Patterson made.

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<v Speaker 2>Why deviate so significantly from an unfamiliar recipe for a

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<v Speaker 2>special lunch. The prosecution says this was a deliberate choice.

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<v Speaker 2>It enabled the accused to control what ingredients went into

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<v Speaker 2>each individual parcel, and it was the only way to

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<v Speaker 2>be sure that she herself would not accidentally consume any

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<v Speaker 2>death cap mushroom.

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<v Speaker 1>Rogers suggested Aaron Patterson may have made two batches of

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<v Speaker 1>mushroom paste, one poisoned, one knot. In her evidence, Patterson

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<v Speaker 1>said she'd added dried mushrooms from a tubbleware box to

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<v Speaker 1>improve the flavor.

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<v Speaker 2>The recipe book called for seven hundred grams of sliced

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<v Speaker 2>mushrooms to serve six or eight people, so she had

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<v Speaker 2>one point seventy five kilos of mushrooms for a dish

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<v Speaker 2>that called for less than half. Why then would she

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<v Speaker 2>resort to dried or forage mushrooms she had more than enough.

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<v Speaker 1>Pattison said she thought these were dried mushrooms she'd boord

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<v Speaker 1>from an Asian grosser, but later realized they must have

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<v Speaker 1>also contained dried death cap mushrooms she'd accidentally foraged. Patterson's

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<v Speaker 1>evidence was that she had saved the mushrooms because there

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<v Speaker 1>were two strong for a meal she'd made previously. She

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<v Speaker 1>said they'd smelt pungent, and the jury heard from expert

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<v Speaker 1>witness Tom May that dried deathcap mushrooms had a very strong,

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<v Speaker 1>unpleasant smell.

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<v Speaker 2>Why then, would you add mushrooms that smell funny and

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<v Speaker 2>you're worried might be too overpowering to a special lunch

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<v Speaker 2>you were preparing for guests. The evidence in this trial

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<v Speaker 2>shows that the accused knew how to dehydrate and blitz

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<v Speaker 2>mushrooms into a powder to hide inside food.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a reference to a message sent to the friends

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<v Speaker 1>she made in a true crime Facebook group in which

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<v Speaker 1>she said she'd been hiding dehydrated mushrooms in her children's

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<v Speaker 1>food in order to increase their intake of veggies. Rogers

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<v Speaker 1>then turned to a website called eye Naturalist, where users

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<v Speaker 1>can post their observations about fungi growing in the wild,

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<v Speaker 1>including their specific geographic location.

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<v Speaker 2>There is no direct evidence as to where the accused

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<v Speaker 2>sourced deathcap mushrooms. However, what the evidence does demonstrate is

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<v Speaker 2>that she was aware of a website that could be

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<v Speaker 2>used to locate deathcap mushrooms, and that she had the

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity to source those mushrooms at a time proximate or

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<v Speaker 2>near to the lunch.

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<v Speaker 1>Rogers said analysis of the devices seized from Aaron Patterson's

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<v Speaker 1>home showed she used the map feature on I Naturalist

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty two to view the location of deathcap

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<v Speaker 1>mushrooms in Victoria. Rogers said she didn't seek out information

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<v Speaker 1>about other types of mushrooms.

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<v Speaker 2>The only other people living with the accused in the

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<v Speaker 2>house at the time was her son and her daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>You will therefore have no trouble, I suggest, being satisfied

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<v Speaker 2>that it was the accused using the computer to look

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<v Speaker 2>up death cap mushrooms on I Naturalist.

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<v Speaker 1>In April twenty twenty three, a post on Our Naturalist

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<v Speaker 1>recorded a sighting of death cap mushrooms in the Locke area,

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<v Speaker 1>about twenty eight k's from Patterson's town of land Gatha.

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<v Speaker 1>Rogers took the jury to sell tower information that tracked

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<v Speaker 1>Patterson's phone on that day and photos found on her device.

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<v Speaker 2>From all this evidence, you can safely infer that the

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<v Speaker 2>accused firstly was out at the lock reserve on the

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eighth of April twenty three. Secondly that she found

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<v Speaker 2>and collected death cat mushrooms from that reserve. Thirdly that

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<v Speaker 2>then she went to leem Gatha and bought the dehydrator

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<v Speaker 2>within two hours of returning from Locke for the very

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<v Speaker 2>purpose of dehydrating and preserving those death cap mushrooms. And fourthly,

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<v Speaker 2>these photos on the Samsung tablet show the very death

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<v Speaker 2>cap mushroom she collected at the lock Reserve.

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<v Speaker 1>Rogers said Patterson was not seriously unwell after the lunch,

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<v Speaker 1>and she knew that was a problem. She ran the

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<v Speaker 1>jury through evidence that even though Patterson said she was

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<v Speaker 1>suffering diarrhea on the Sunday after the lunch, she didn't

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<v Speaker 1>present at hospital until Monday morning after taking her kids

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<v Speaker 1>to the school bus, and then Roger says she didn't

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<v Speaker 1>tell the doctors and nurses what she now says, which

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<v Speaker 1>is that she'd taken emodium medication on her first visit

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<v Speaker 1>to hospital. On the Monday morning, Patterson left, promising to return,

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<v Speaker 1>even as a doctor called her three times, then called

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<v Speaker 1>Triple O to express his concern.

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<v Speaker 2>There is only one logical or reasonable explanation for why

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<v Speaker 2>the accused left hospital, and after being told she might

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<v Speaker 2>have consumed a lethal toxin from death cap mushrooms, she

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<v Speaker 2>realized that what she had done was going to be uncovered.

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<v Speaker 2>She fled back to her house to try and work

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<v Speaker 2>out how she was going to manage the situation and

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<v Speaker 2>how she might explain why she wasn't sick like the

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<v Speaker 2>lunch guests. She knew very well that she had not

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<v Speaker 2>eaten death cap mushrooms.

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<v Speaker 1>Rogers said leaving the hospital against medical advice was incriminating conduct.

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<v Speaker 1>When she did return to the hospital, Rogers says Patterson

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<v Speaker 1>was resistant to medications the nurses wanted to give her.

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<v Speaker 2>Her reluctance to receive medical treatment is inexplicable unless she

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<v Speaker 2>knew she had not eaten what her lunch guests had done.

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<v Speaker 2>This resistance to receiving medical treatment is another example of

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<v Speaker 2>what we say is incriminating conduct.

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<v Speaker 1>On August three, when her lunch guests were critically ill

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<v Speaker 1>in hospital, Aaron Patterson drove to the kunwaraor transfer station,

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<v Speaker 1>the local tip and dumped her dehydrator.

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<v Speaker 2>She wanted to hide the evidence. This is another example

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<v Speaker 2>of incriminating conduct. The defense may argue that this was

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<v Speaker 2>part of a wild panic. The accused did this because

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<v Speaker 2>she was worried she would be falsely accused of deliberately

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<v Speaker 2>poisoning her lunch guests. You should completely reject that position.

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<v Speaker 1>In the witness box, Patterson said that in the hospital,

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<v Speaker 1>Simon Patterson had asked her if she'd use the dehydrator

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<v Speaker 1>to poison his parents, and that statement upset and worried her.

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<v Speaker 2>Her story about Simon accusing her in the hospital of

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<v Speaker 2>using the dehydrator and this sending her into a panic

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<v Speaker 2>is nonsense. Simon Patterson categorically denied to you ever saying

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<v Speaker 2>such a thing to the accused. She knew it would

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<v Speaker 2>incriminate her. She knew that she had dehydrated deathcap mushrooms

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<v Speaker 2>in that appliance, and that she had deliberately done so,

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<v Speaker 2>and she knew that keeping it was going to be

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<v Speaker 2>far too risky.

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<v Speaker 1>Police were onto this almost immediately because they were analyzing

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<v Speaker 1>her bank records, but when they interviewed Patterson on August five,

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<v Speaker 1>she said she didn't own a dehydrator. Rogers said during

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<v Speaker 1>the police search of her home on August five, Patterson

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<v Speaker 1>deliberately concealed her primary phone, phone A, and handed them

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<v Speaker 1>another device, Phone B.

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<v Speaker 2>We say is a dummy phone set up deliberately by

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<v Speaker 2>the accused to trick the police and to conceal the

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<v Speaker 2>existence and most importantly, the contents of her usual mobile phone.

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<v Speaker 2>When police took phone b away after the search warrant

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<v Speaker 2>and tried to analyze it, they found nothing. Why, Because

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<v Speaker 2>this phone was factory resent multiple times after the lunch,

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<v Speaker 2>its contents were wiped.

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<v Speaker 1>Rogers said, despite Patterson's claim to be a keen recreational

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<v Speaker 1>mushroom forager, she was the only one who remembered any

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<v Speaker 1>behavior like this, not her husband, her kids, or any

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<v Speaker 1>of her online friends.

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<v Speaker 2>The suggestion now that these mushrooms may have been accidentally foraged,

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<v Speaker 2>we suggest, is a very late change to the accused story.

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<v Speaker 2>You might think that at some point it dawned on

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<v Speaker 2>her that the Asian grocery story didn't add up, particularly

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<v Speaker 2>when faced with the evidence about the remnants of the

0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.360
<v Speaker 2>death cat mushrooms having been found in her dehydrator, she

0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:28.840
<v Speaker 2>had to come up with something new.

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.720
<v Speaker 1>Roger said. The breakdown of Erin and Simon Patterson's marriage

0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.000
<v Speaker 1>and the fact Patterson had dragged Donngale Patterson into a

0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:38.599
<v Speaker 1>disagreement about money was significant.

0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.800
<v Speaker 2>The evidence shows you might think that the divide between

0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.040
<v Speaker 2>the accused and her in laws was deeper than they

0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 2>ever knew. We say that the accused was leading a

0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.359
<v Speaker 2>duplicitous life. When it came to the Pattersons, she presented

0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.240
<v Speaker 2>one side while expressing contrary beliefs to others. When Don

0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 2>and Gale sent the accused messages about her ongoing financial

0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.960
<v Speaker 2>issues with Simon and meant and praying, she replied with

0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.920
<v Speaker 2>an eye roll emoji. She was mocking them and their

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.640
<v Speaker 2>religious beliefs despite attending church with them. If she did

0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.440
<v Speaker 2>love them as she claimed, one would expect her to

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.280
<v Speaker 2>inquire after their welfare immediately in those circumstances. But what

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.240
<v Speaker 2>did she do? When Simon told her that Don and

0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Gale were in hospital, she immediately went on to talk

0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.840
<v Speaker 2>about her own symptoms, never asked a question about Don

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:23.360
<v Speaker 2>and Gale.

0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Rogers ended with an appeal to the jury's life experience.

0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Think about what you would do in this situation. If

0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.080
<v Speaker 2>this was really just a horrible accident. If you were

0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:35.960
<v Speaker 2>told that the meal you'd cooked and served to your

0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.359
<v Speaker 2>family was thought to have possibly contained death cat mushrooms,

0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 2>what would you do. Would you go into self preservation mode,

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.320
<v Speaker 2>just worrying about protecting yourself from blame. Would you race

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 2>away from the hospital and do who knows what for

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.600
<v Speaker 2>an hour and a half. Would you be reluctant to

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.040
<v Speaker 2>receive treatment, Would you take two and a half hours

0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.080
<v Speaker 2>to eventually agree to get your kids to hospital? Would

0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.440
<v Speaker 2>you lie about the source of the ingredients to medical

0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:01.800
<v Speaker 2>practitioners and the Health Department of officials for days, even

0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.800
<v Speaker 2>though the truth might help those you claim to love. No,

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.520
<v Speaker 2>that's not what you would do. You would do everything

0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 2>you could to help the people you love. You would

0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.960
<v Speaker 2>tell the treating medical practitioners every scheric of information that

0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.680
<v Speaker 2>might help to identify the cause of the illness, so

0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.160
<v Speaker 2>that they could get the right treatment to your loved ones,

0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.200
<v Speaker 2>regardless of any risk of blame that might fall on you.

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.120
<v Speaker 2>If your children had come within cooy of the same meal,

0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.760
<v Speaker 2>you would move mountains to get them to hospital as

0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.200
<v Speaker 2>quickly as possible. And if you yourself had truly consumed

0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:34.800
<v Speaker 2>the same meal, you would gladly receive all of the

0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.200
<v Speaker 2>medical treatment you could get your hands on. Aaron Patterson

0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.280
<v Speaker 2>acted the way she did because she knew what she

0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:41.119
<v Speaker 2>had done.

0:15:44.920 --> 0:16:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Coming up. Aaron Patterson's lawyer has he say.

0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.760
<v Speaker 4>Use your heads, not your hearts.

0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.960
<v Speaker 1>On Tuesday, Erin Patterson's barrister, Colin Mandarc got his chance

0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:18.120
<v Speaker 1>to set out in detail exactly why he says Patterson

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.720
<v Speaker 1>didn't mean to poison for elderly relatives and why she

0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:22.600
<v Speaker 1>should be acquitted.

0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.160
<v Speaker 4>You have to consider the issues rationally and logically, without emotion,

0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:33.000
<v Speaker 4>without prejudice towards anyone, without sympathy towards anyone, and you

0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:36.760
<v Speaker 4>have to assess the evidence dispassionately with your common sense.

0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.640
<v Speaker 1>The barrister acknowledged the deaths of Don Gale and Heather

0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Wilkinson and the suffering of Ian Wilkinson was a terrible tragedy.

0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.640
<v Speaker 1>He said he understood that the family members who'd attended

0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.680
<v Speaker 1>court over the course of the trial were still mourning

0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:51.360
<v Speaker 1>their loss.

0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.320
<v Speaker 4>These were good, innocent people, and whoever caused their deaths

0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.600
<v Speaker 4>must be held to account. That instinctive design to punish

0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.840
<v Speaker 4>the person responsible, to seek retribution, to think that they

0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:07.840
<v Speaker 4>must pay for what they've done, but a jury has

0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:10.159
<v Speaker 4>to fiercely guard against that kind of reason.

0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.159
<v Speaker 1>Mandy reiterated the burden of proof rested with the crown,

0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:18.080
<v Speaker 1>not the defense. Basically, Aaron Patterson doesn't have to prove anything.

0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.119
<v Speaker 4>Members of the jury, your consideration of the evidence in

0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:26.919
<v Speaker 4>this trial comes down to two simple issues. First, is

0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:30.920
<v Speaker 4>there a reasonable possibility that death cap mushrooms were put

0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.520
<v Speaker 4>into this meal by accident. Second, is it a reasonable

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:40.439
<v Speaker 4>possibility Aaron Patterson did not intend to kill or cause

0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.600
<v Speaker 4>serious injury to her guests. And in the end, after

0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.800
<v Speaker 4>you've considered all of the evidence, if either of those

0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.640
<v Speaker 4>is a reasonable possibility on all of the evidence, then

0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:53.840
<v Speaker 4>you'd find her not guilty.

0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.840
<v Speaker 1>Mandy said. Patterson's accounts of when she became unwell and

0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.080
<v Speaker 1>where she purchased them ushrooms were mostly consistent.

0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.359
<v Speaker 4>She was giving the same account over and over again,

0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.639
<v Speaker 4>but to lots of different people in many different contexts,

0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.960
<v Speaker 4>and in the end, when you analyze the evidence carefully,

0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.480
<v Speaker 4>there's very little meaningful variation in the accounts that she gave.

0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.360
<v Speaker 1>He also pointed to the fallibility of memory.

0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:26.639
<v Speaker 4>People have imperfect and honestly mistaken memories. You may recall

0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.240
<v Speaker 4>playing games like the telephone game, where messages are whispered

0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.199
<v Speaker 4>from one person to another all the way along, and

0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.399
<v Speaker 4>then you compare the message that was relayed at the

0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.200
<v Speaker 4>beginning to the one that came out at the end.

0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:39.920
<v Speaker 4>It's completely completely different.

0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Colin Mandy acknowledged that the Crown doesn't have to prove

0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:47.320
<v Speaker 1>a motive, but he said without one, they can't get

0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:47.800
<v Speaker 1>to murder.

0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.320
<v Speaker 4>Without a motive, You're left guessing about the most important

0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.840
<v Speaker 4>element of the offense in this trial, and that's intention.

0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.719
<v Speaker 1>He said. Pattison didn't have any reason to harm or

0:18:58.840 --> 0:18:59.960
<v Speaker 1>murder her in laws.

0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.720
<v Speaker 4>They loved her. She loved them. That's relevant. Don and

0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.679
<v Speaker 4>Gale had never been anything but kind and understanding to

0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.760
<v Speaker 4>Aaron Patterson. There was absolutely no reason at all for

0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.600
<v Speaker 4>her to hurt them in any way at all. Not

0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.280
<v Speaker 4>only is there no motive, there are very good reasons

0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.280
<v Speaker 4>not to harm these people. And if you do embark

0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:22.840
<v Speaker 4>on this plan to harm them in this way, inevitably,

0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.679
<v Speaker 4>whatever happens, you will lose the only people in the

0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.080
<v Speaker 4>world who were any support to you and your children.

0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.480
<v Speaker 4>You will lose your children, and you'll lose everything that's

0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:32.199
<v Speaker 4>important to you.

0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Mandy said she didn't dump the dehydrated because she was guilty,

0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:38.640
<v Speaker 1>rather because she was rattled.

0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:41.960
<v Speaker 4>If you're planning a murder, what's the one thing you

0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.000
<v Speaker 4>really should plan to dispose of. That's the murder weapon.

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.920
<v Speaker 4>She would have disposed of it months before and never

0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:51.520
<v Speaker 4>told anyone she had one. She drives to the tip

0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.520
<v Speaker 4>in her own car, pays for the disposal of the

0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:58.680
<v Speaker 4>dehydrator with her own bank card, doesn't attempt to disguise

0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.280
<v Speaker 4>those actions in anyone. It can only have been panic,

0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.439
<v Speaker 4>not because she was guilty, but because that's what people

0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.720
<v Speaker 4>might think. It was a deep shock to her how

0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 4>these four people became so seriously unwell. It was a

0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.720
<v Speaker 4>deep shock because she never intended for it to happen.

0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:19.000
<v Speaker 4>And if that's a reasonable possibility, then she must be

0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.240
<v Speaker 4>found not guilty, Mandy said.

0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.880
<v Speaker 1>When police asked if she had any leftovers from the meal,

0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.520
<v Speaker 1>she gave them her gate access code and said they

0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:28.920
<v Speaker 1>were probably in her bin.

0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:31.840
<v Speaker 4>A guilty person, you would think would have already thrown

0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:33.960
<v Speaker 4>them out. You might think get rid of them, put

0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.000
<v Speaker 4>them in a neighbor's bin or a public bin, bury

0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.200
<v Speaker 4>them in the backyard, or do something else. There'd been

0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.439
<v Speaker 4>two days to do all of that, instead of directing

0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:43.520
<v Speaker 4>the police where to find the evidence that there were

0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.320
<v Speaker 4>death cat mushrooms in the meal. So the prosecution theories,

0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:51.600
<v Speaker 4>we say, make no sense. The alternative is far more

0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:56.080
<v Speaker 4>sensible and logical. She didn't know they were poisoned. She

0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.600
<v Speaker 4>fed the children of the meat with the mushrooms scraped

0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:03.000
<v Speaker 4>off she threw the leftovers in the bin. She told

0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:05.320
<v Speaker 4>the police where to find them because she didn't know

0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:09.439
<v Speaker 4>they had poison in them. It's straightforward, it's not convoluted,

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:14.160
<v Speaker 4>it's non elaborate, it's not tortured. An innocent person would

0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:17.960
<v Speaker 4>say go grab them, help yourselves. That's what she did say.

0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:30.119
<v Speaker 1>Colin Mandy sc will resume his closing submissions on Wednesday.

0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.360
<v Speaker 1>For all the latest from the Victorian Supreme Court in Morewell,

0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:37.320
<v Speaker 1>and for all the nation's best news, sport, politics and business,

0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.040
<v Speaker 1>visit the Australian dot com dot au