WEBVTT - Why Melanie Saward Called Out Booktok Boy (aka Luke Bateman) 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.880 I record this podcast on Gaetigo Country. I'd like to 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:04.800 pay my respect to the traditional. 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.560 Custodians and I'm recording o Urando Country, part of the 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:09.280 Cooler Nation. Let's go. 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:15.319 I know you're gonna dig this X like I've been 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.279 given like an extra sprinkle of something. 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:21.640 You've got layers, Yeah, I got layers. 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:25.480 I was just thinking, I'm like, we're just such beautiful storytellers. 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.560 You make a lot of sense to that girl. No, 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:30.480 I'm done. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.720 Let's be too honest to go. 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.080 Well, we've had her on first things first before, but 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.960 welcome back the incredible male who is the co author 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.320 of Brook and Mel's new book, Melseywood. 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:47.320 So I've had there's a little ex bachelor, ex rugby 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.640 league player, hot Ossie Laraken. 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:56.440 Hunk of a man, hummingbird, No, I mean honey badger. 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.080 Wrong guy is in your DM Mel, Would you like 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:02.680 to explain to us please? 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:07.200 You're not the only bachelor ex bachelor passion, not even me. 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.959 Guys, Oh, we need the details because this is wild 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:12.320 what's been happening. 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:16.880 He's in my dms because I spent some time on TikTok, 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.720 maybe giving him a bit of a growl like the 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.479 aunties might off for you know. 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:27.000 Not possibly calling him out, Yeah, giving a bit. 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:30.160 Of a call out, maybe going a little bit viral 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:31.600 for calling him out. 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:32.240 Truly. 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.920 Okay, let's play the video that we're talking about. 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.480 As we all know, there's this BookTalk boy and he's 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.080 a nice guy. Absolutely nobody is denying that. But he 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.520 has already got a platform. He is an ex rugby 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:47.880 league player, an ex bachelor and he had a lot 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:51.320 of follows on Instagram before he arrived on BookTalk And 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.560 if you've been on TikTok for a minute, you will 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:56.440 know that he joined in April. And yesterday it was 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.400 announced that the BookTalk Boy had signed a multiple deal 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.040 with the Trea Publishing, which is an imprint of Simon 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:07.360 and Schuster. There is a queer woman of color called Zekway. 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.639 She recently also signed a multi book deal with a 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.680 Trea Publishing and guess what, she has not had the 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.520 same red carpet treatment that Luke has had. Aside from 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.240 a couple of announcements, we've heard crickets about this one. 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:26.120 There's mean, no hype, no marketing push, no big pr 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:30.000 And why why is that so? Because the publishing industry 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.520 does not treat everyone equally. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:38.200 For context, guys, So this hotbook dot guy throws out 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:42.640 this video gets one hundred and something thousand likes and 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.880 a lot of people talking about it, but Meles called 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:46.280 him out. 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.960 I have yeah, I know that there are a lot 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.600 of people that were kind of upset when he first 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.919 went mega viral. I suppose in terms of Australian book talk, 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.600 which seems a really weird thing to be talking about 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.359 going byral But I. 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.480 Can understand why he went viral though. Sexy man talking 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.399 about literature. I mean, that's a massive turn on. I'd 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:14.120 be sharing a bed, fucking They say what's the sexiest 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:18.040 thing in a man's hand? Some say, some say a vacuum, 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:19.000 I say a book. 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:23.160 He didn't even have the book in his hand. Maddie 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.240 reading one fucking book in his life and he gets 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:27.400 a hundred and no. 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.040 I've literally got girl. It sounds like me with my 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.359 seventy five hard challenge. Every time I read those ten 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:34.359 pages of the book, I think I'm better than everything. 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.440 I'm like, I am the smartest man in the world. 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:40.760 Bro. 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.520 When I close that book, I'm like, Wow, I'm so intelligent, 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:45.440 and I can. 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:49.800 Doubs On this book. Top guy seriously has been like 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.440 like girls literally throwing and like accusing it as a 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.440 as a like to date him pretty much right, like 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.559 putting their dating profile like Hi, I'm blah blah blah, 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.160 this is where you can find me, or like some 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:06.560 girls like wow, I'm all of a sudden interested in books. 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.600 This is frustrating as fuck, and it's funny, but it's 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:16.080 frustrating because it's like one guy reads one book and 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.719 literally girls are throwing themselves at you. 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:23.200 It's like asks you to you know what the patriarchy is, 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:29.800 You should just send them this. So Mel tell us 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.719 about the d MS you obviously called this book talk 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:34.320 viral video. 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.479 Go you girlfriend, like you know, you're not there for 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:43.720 your own you know, dating intentions. You're like, fuck, this 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.159 is a great opportunity to message him. 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.279 Yeah, well actually he messaged me. 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:52.279 Oh he slid into her DM. 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.279 He slid into my DMS because I was on someone 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.480 else's video saying, oh, there's no way this man will 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.280 want to talk about books with me, because she'd made 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:05.080 a video as well, saying similar sorts of things that 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.640 the comments were gross, and then women were also coming 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.240 for each other because of course when there's a man involved, 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.880 we are all over again. 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:25.160 Fuck you now, yeah, great words, they're coming for each other. Yeah, okay, 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:26.839 all right, we're going back to the note. Not so 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:31.839 PG days. No, But I want to know what made 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.400 you like what was the first message you sent him? 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.560 And what has that conversation entailed. 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.640 He just messaged me and said he'd like to talk 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:44.080 about books with me. And I went back to him 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:48.640 and I said, look, I'm not actually mad at you 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:54.000 for getting followers. It's more the fact that the people 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:56.279 there are so many people on book talking like to 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.960 talk myself up. For example, I being an Aboriginal person 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:04.960 and on the internet in any form is not a picnic. 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.160 So I was literally writing down that comment you said 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:10.800 about I want to talk books with you. I was like, 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:11.400 great pick. 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:16.279 Up, Yeah, aweso great, I'll put it in my keep going. 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:16.680 Yeah. 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.040 So I said, I wasn't really mad at him. It 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:24.600 was more about the people that saw him pretty man 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:30.760 oka accent in a tractor talking about books, and he 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.560 got all of those followers, and he's getting attention, and 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.920 that means he has influence on BookTalk. And we know 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.719 like to get nerdy with you. We know studies show 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.599 that BookTalk and social media, but book talk in particular 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:49.480 is the biggest book selling influence in the world at 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:51.680 the moment. So if you can get picked up on 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.360 book talk and go viral, then your book is going 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.520 to sell out. You will get book deals, you will 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.200 get all of the sorts of things that authors really want. 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.560 Unfortunately for someone like me and like it does sound 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:09.560 a bit like sour grapes, but I get in. I 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.600 get furious when people have a platform and then all 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.920 the books that they are talking about are the popular ones, 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:19.520 the ones that already have shelf space, endemics, the ones 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:24.520 that already have thousands upon thousands of readers, that have 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:31.680 worldwide deals, which are oftentimes problematic storylines or from problematic authors, 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:36.760 whereas there's every single indigenous author out there is scrabbling 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.760 around to tell our stories and get them out there, 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.320 and we don't get that much attention, Like it takes 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.360 a lot of energy to get one booktoker to hold 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.280 your book up on BookTok and say this was a 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.320 good book, go and buy it. In Australia, our market 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.160 is so small. So it was just it was more 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:59.040 that he'd gotten the influence that I have sort of 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.320 craved because I know what I want to do with 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:06.480 that influence, which is educate and sell our stories. And 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:10.240 you know, by if you know, the trickle down effect 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.320 of that is that then kids like the kids that 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.760 book works with at school will be able to see 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.080 more Indigenous authors, more Indigenous stories, and be able to 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.640 dream of maybe telling those stories in the future. And 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.600 it will be easy for them because I see it 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.360 as my responsibility to make way for the next lot 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:32.760 of people coming up. So I was furious at the followers, 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:36.079 but I also said to him in the DMS when 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:37.800 he said, I'd love to talk about books with you, 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:39.880 and I was like, great, here is your reading list 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:44.000 and tell and I'm really I actually am quite good 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:49.760 at finding recommendations. If someone says I like you, then 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.120 finding something else for someone to pick up. So my 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:58.880 biggest area of expertise and interest is romance. But I 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:02.319 can tell this guy that he should pick up a 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.800 fantasy book by say Lisa Fuller or Lista Rose or 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.520 someone like that. So he said, to his credit, he 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:12.559 has said he will pick them up. And then I 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.320 went on and did a big recommendation video and tagged 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.199 him in it. And we'll see what happens. But I 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:22.760 think that it's just that so many people are throwing 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:28.199 around these likes and follows and they're worth nothing to 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.599 someone who maybe already has a platform, who's maybe you know, 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.160 like him, has developed his platform by being on the Bachelor, 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.400 by being a rugby player, by all of those sorts 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.920 of things tangently. And then there's the rest of us. 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.640 Who is our actual job to be on these social 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:49.920 platforms scrambling around for my you know, huge three thousand followers. 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.960 You know, it's just it gets really frustrating. 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.600 Well, let's take this notion and put him to the side. 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.400 Enough talking about hunk book talk man, Let's talk about you. Well, 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.840 I want to know, you know, where are you from? 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.520 Who's your mob Let our listeners give a little bit 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.760 of insight into your journey as a writer. 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:11.719 Yeah sure. So my name smells Saywood and I'm a 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.120 big and ball and Woka Walker woman. So my people 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.160 are from around gumd Windy Way, which is on the 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:22.120 Queensland New South Wales border and Woka Walker people. It's 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.680 a big area up in Queensland. But my grandmother specifically 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.280 was from Gainder, which is a little town sort of 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:34.200 northwest of Marborough. Uh and so up in North Queensland. 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.760 So yeah, that's where my people are from. But I 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:39.520 and I live in just outside of Brisbane, in a 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.199 little city called Ipswich, which Brook has been to visit. 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:44.520 Now love Ipswich. 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:46.080 What do you think of Ipswich, Bro. 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.000 I actually really liked it. I was like, this is 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:50.959 I don't know, it just kind of reminded me a 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.440 little bit like Perth in a sense. It's like quite 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.920 small and like, yeah, I don't know. I just laid back, Yeah, 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.560 laid back by a lot of a lot of the Yeah, yeah, yeah, a. 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.440 Lot of mob. It's a it's a it's a really 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.280 great place to be if you come to Brisbane. We're 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.360 just thirty minutes west and it's a nice place to visit. 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:10.360 Yeah. 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.719 I live in Ipswich, but my day job is as 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:17.240 an academic at the University of Queensland. So I teach 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.160 about the writing and publishing industry and that's where my 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.719 background is. I used to be a book editor. I 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.440 used to work at actually book and my publisher, yeah. 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.880 She was used to work at HarperCollins, who obviously if 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.439 you know, I've signed with them with their books that 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:36.640 we've we've created and my memoir. But they're great. I mean, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.679 I don't know what it was like to work for them, 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:40.320 but I love getting paid by them. 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.319 Yeah, I love that. 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.079 Yeah. So yeah, I worked there for a little while, 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.560 but then I went into into academia and book publishing. 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.840 Yeah, we're writing a book. 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:54.320 We've written a book. 0:11:54.400 --> 0:12:00.199 I'm sorry, I've gone back in time. Girl, You've done it. 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.000 It's published, it's out, I promise. 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.439 I'm having deja vu a little bit because we had 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.520 we've been in studio before, we have, and it was 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:09.679 in Perth, which was so crazy because we went for 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.920 the Barbie premiere. So I feel like I obviously I 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:14.959 spent so much time with you and getting to know 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:16.880 you and I have this relationship with you. But for 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.839 the listeners, like this has been such a journey for 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.439 you of writing. You've published three books. So You've got Burn, 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.800 which was your first, and it's about a young indigenous 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:31.199 boy who lights fires, which you would love to do. 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.200 What well, I would love to see it made into 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.880 a TV series. Actually, I think that's my. 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:41.679 Who would you cast? Can I ask who would you 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:42.960 cast to be the main carriage? 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.080 So hard because you think about how long it takes, 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:47.880 like both of you know how long it takes to 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.079 get a film up and running. All the kids that 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:55.679 you would pick because like Andrew is seventeen, sixteen, seventeen, 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:57.760 and so all of the people that you would peak 0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.520 for it are going to be in they're like thirties. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:01.520 Probably matter what today the way. 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.920 You Okay Thomas, whether or would be a fabulous don't 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.400 you recommend it? You should read this book. It's amazing. 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.079 And then you wrote a romance novel. I did, yes, 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:12.760 give us a little bit of insight into that romance novel. 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.640 So it's called Love Unleashed, and it's about a big 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.720 and bull girl called Brinn who grows up fairly similarly 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.440 to me on the north side of Brisbane and wants 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:26.040 to go to New York to work for a big 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.920 literary magazine or the publishing industry. And so when she 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.199 finishes UNI, she gets on a plane and heads off 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:35.959 to New York and tries to get this job, but 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.480 everything sort of falls apart for her and she ends 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.240 up working in a doggy daycare. So it's kind of 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:49.160 cute and funny, but it's more a romantic comedy that's 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.400 you know, things don't magically work out, which I think 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.520 was a little bit more realistic when you're a black 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:59.480 fellow reading a book where someone might go off to 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.080 a big city where you don't sort of magically have. 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.559 Money fantasy well that you yeah, yeah, it's sort of 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.840 a happy ending kind of It does have a happy ending, absolutely, 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.280 but it doesn't sort of work out the way that 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.719 you would expect it to in a rom com You know, 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.160 she should have got the job and had the kind 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.160 of carry Bradshaw life. 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.400 But she doesn't really get that, but she gets good stuff. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:23.760 It does work out in the end. 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:28.600 What inspired you to have that reality aspect to it? 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.560 Is it so that mob felt like the story they 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.840 were reading maybe they could connect more deeply to Yeah. 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.800 Absolutely, it was a big So. The funny thing about 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.720 this book was that it was my PhD, which people 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.560 don't actually realize that you can write a book. But 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.480 it was eighty percent of this big academic work that 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.600 took me four years to do, and the book was 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.640 the main part of it. And so what I was 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.840 trying to do, like in academic worlds, you're trying to 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.480 answer a question, and my question was a lot around. 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:04.040 Is the publishing industrry ready for a book with an 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:08.000 aboriginal heroine that doesn't follow all those typical things but 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:12.040 still has the happily ever after, which is critical for 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:16.760 a romance book. And so Brinn is aboriginal, she's queer, 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.920 she's fat. She comes from a family that is made 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.760 up a little bit differently. Her mom had passed away. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.480 She lives with her stepdad and her half brother, but 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:29.920 of course we don't say things like half brother, right, 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.080 it's just her little brother she's got. One of her 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:37.640 best friends is her sister cousin, and so she has 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.960 this really strong connection back home. So she's not running 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:45.280 away from anything, she's running towards things. But also I 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.240 love that vision, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that and 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.520 her mum, and it was her mom's dream for her 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.040 to go to New York and do those things. So 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.560 she's kind of fulfilling her mum's wishes as well to 0:15:57.720 --> 0:15:59.960 go over there. But yeah, and then she discovers things 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:04.160 about herself while she's there. And I think oftentimes, and 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:08.160 I think, when you're reading a book where someone goes overseas, 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.640 their dreams come true and they want to stay overseas 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.720 and everything magically works out. And I think for MOB 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.440 that's a bit more complicated, right, Like it is possible 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.000 to live overseas and enjoy living overseas, but very far. Yeah, 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.200 it's far, and we are so deeply connected. Like I 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.480 often think about you Brook, you know, when you're not 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.040 having a good time, going home is really important for 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.600 you and being on country and that is recharging and 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:34.440 things like that. So it was it was stuff like 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.160 that that I thought about her, you know, feeling that 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.040 string that connects you home. 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.640 It's also like, you know, New York is like you know, 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.600 something that we see quite often on our TVs, and 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:49.680 it kind of does feel a bit of a fantasy 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:51.680 and not real. So when you think of New York, 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.000 you're like, oh, like, I could never. And I think 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.720 that's the narrative or like the story. A lot of 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.960 MOB actually tell themselves a lot if they don't feel 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.240 like it's achievable, and I think they constantly will be like, 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.760 oh no, I could never, Yeah, never, I could never 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.719 do that. I could never go there. And I think 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.160 it's when you start believing in yourself and your self 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.760 worth is so high, you start believing that anything is possible, 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:16.920 and just getting on a plane as possible. Because I 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.800 kept telling myself about New York Maddie knows this. I 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:21.200 was like, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it, 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.040 and then I just fucking did it. Yeah, and I 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.080 was like, this is the best thing I ever did. 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:26.800 I came back. 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.080 It's so crazy. I came back to myself more so 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.520 in New York than I actually ever have in some 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.639 ways on country. I know that sounds really weird, but 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.400 when I'm on country, it's like about rest. But when 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.119 I'm in another country by myself, it's liberation. It's like 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:46.679 doing something that's you don't think is possible and then 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.439 you're doing it and it's crazy. So I really connect 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.600 with Brin's story because it's like she's just doing the thing. Yeah, 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.320 she's just doing the thing. And I think we need 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.560 to tell our young people just do the thing right. 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.879 And I know that sounds so simple, like it's just 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:06.960 so needed. So like our book, A good kind of trouble, 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.520 a lot of people think, oh wow, that's what is it? 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.280 Like they're intrigued, which is great. It also kind of 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.600 sucks that sometimes you have to put a cover that's 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.280 so click baity to get people enticed to. 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.119 Do it, right, Yeah, how could you come up with 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:19.720 that title? 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.360 Well, we just wrote the story and then we're kind 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.720 of like like, well, Stella's bad news in some sense, 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:26.600 and it's like. 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.240 It is a chapter title as well, which I completely 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.080 forgot about when we were having a conversation about what 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.200 it was going to be called, Like, I don't I 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:39.040 don't know. I was like Jamie, Yeah, well we had 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.120 Jamie and Stella. It said Jamie and Stellar book one 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.520 all the time the whole time we were writing it. 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.120 So it's kind of crazy because like now we're kind 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:50.960 of coming up with the next one, and it's like 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:52.800 do we stay on the line of like a good 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.920 kind of something else or do we completely change it? 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.800 But I like consistency, so I'm like, we need to 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.679 come up with something else. But it's a different point of. 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:06.359 View, A bad kind of good? Did man just do it? 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:07.639 Did you just give up? 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:09.119 What is it? 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:14.040 A bad kind of good? People like, wait, this is confusing, 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:14.680 but I like it. 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.840 Yeah, they're like, what, like, but. 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:24.520 It's it's something for our young people. Yeah, it's as 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.119 much as it's for melan I to to love and 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.760 to care and to nurture. It's the same time, it's 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.440 just for young people to read and see themselves and 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.000 to feel seen, right, And I think we're going to 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.480 see that at my work, which is myts which is 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:43.520 with the young Indigenous kids that travel from home their 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.840 community to Melbourne to get an education. Now, this our 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.840 second book, is kind of the Mits experience, but it's 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.800 from Stella's point of view, which is the good kind 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.520 of trouble who comes to town and Jamie's flips Jamie's world. 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:02.879 So it's crazy because like when making this story, but 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:08.400 it's so interwoven into like and so connected with real experiences. 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.960 It's crazy to think, like these young kids will read 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.119 this and then just understand that this could be a 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:17.720 thing that they can actually. 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:21.160 Do, which is crazy. Young girls admits do they read? 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:23.280 Have you seen a culture of reading at the school? 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.320 Yeah, every Tuesday morning we do reading Hour, so from 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.159 like eight thirty to nine or like eight fifteen to 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:33.159 nine we read with the kids. And this is to 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:38.800 encourage obviously their literature and numerous as well, but it's 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.760 just to like have that first thirty minutes of school 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:43.760 where they get to kind of have their own time, 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.879 just you know, reading books or they read with one 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:50.800 of the teachers. But the material that they're reading is 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:54.200 you know, like a diary of a wimpy kid Captain Underpants. 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:59.080 They're quite comical, so they're like not they're actual like comics, 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.680 not real reading. And that's the kind of thing that 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.560 you know, because it might because they're behind in their 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:12.000 like literacy, but it's not to say that they can't 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.800 learn so quickly, like I've seen these kids evolve very 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:17.879 very quickly. Yeah, with just the muscle memory of reading 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:19.440 every single day. Yeah. 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:22.960 I do a lot of school visits. So my first 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:26.520 book Burn because it's got a young person in it, 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:29.960 I actually get to go all over the country and 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.440 talk to kids at schools. And my favorite school is 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:36.919 in Queensland. It's also in Ipswich, which is also an 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:40.480 indigenous school. It's an indigenous independent school as a school 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:45.520