Speaker 1: This episode of Headgame was recorded on gaddigal Land. This
Speaker 1: episode contains discussions of sexual assault. If this raises any
Speaker 1: issues for you, support is available through the links and
Speaker 1: phone numbers in the show notes.
Speaker 2: It's a chilly day in London as a young girl
Speaker 2: stands waiting for the bus, dressed in a plaid skirt
Speaker 2: over the knee, socks and blazer. She appears to be
Speaker 2: a local schoolgirl to most passers by. In reality, the
Speaker 2: innocent looking teen is twenty nine year old undercover police
Speaker 2: officer Danny Brook. She's in her tenth year with the
Speaker 2: Metropolitan Police. Today she's part of a sting hunting a
Speaker 2: predator accused of more than one hundred assaults on children.
Speaker 2: Just as Danny receives a call that the operation is
Speaker 2: being aborted, she's grabbed from behind and thrown to the ground.
Speaker 2: A convicted sex offender overpowers Danny and exposes himself.
Speaker 3: Back up swoops in.
Speaker 2: Danny would soon leave the force after putting her life
Speaker 2: in jeopardy day after day. I'm Att Middleton and this
Speaker 2: is head Game Today. What it takes to live a
Speaker 2: double life from former undercover officer Danny Brook. Danny Brook
Speaker 2: is a former undercover police officer, which we're going to
Speaker 2: dive into in a second, but also now known for
Speaker 2: the Channel four series Hunted.
Speaker 3: So Danny is great to have you on. How are you.
Speaker 4: I'm good, Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure
Speaker 4: to be here.
Speaker 2: Now, Danny, let's go back to your younger days. What
Speaker 2: enticed you to become a police officer. What is your
Speaker 2: family life like? Were you surrounded with police officers? Is
Speaker 2: that run in the family? How does that look?
Speaker 4: It's a bit of a weird one. Actually, where I
Speaker 4: grew up. I grew up. I was born in a London,
Speaker 4: which obviously police are not. You don't join the police
Speaker 4: fIF from East London. We grew up in Essex. Again,
Speaker 4: you don't join the police if you grew up in Essex.
Speaker 4: My mom's found. My mom's one or thirteen, so she's
Speaker 4: got thirteen siblings, she's the youngest and they were of
Speaker 4: Sicilian descent. Now that also doesn't bode well with policing.
Speaker 4: They police themselves, they're very protective. So yeah, it definitely
Speaker 4: wasn't from my mom's side at all. But my dad
Speaker 4: was a police officer. Again, when that doesn't bode well.
Speaker 4: So when my parents got together. My family weren't happy
Speaker 4: about it.
Speaker 3: Oh was it obvious friction from the beginning.
Speaker 2: Did your your side accept or do they still not
Speaker 2: accept my dad?
Speaker 4: No, they definitely didn't accept it. You know, the divorce
Speaker 4: was a shotgun divorce. It was like they only got
Speaker 4: married because she was pregnant with me, basically, and they
Speaker 4: got married. It was just obviously not meant to be.
Speaker 4: From different worlds. My dad was privately educated boarding school,
Speaker 4: you know, East London. It just doesn't go, is.
Speaker 3: You know what? It doesn't does it?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 3: You said it?
Speaker 2: And me being a Britain coming from you know, I
Speaker 2: was brought up in North London. My father was from Enfield,
Speaker 2: my mother was from Portsmouth. So I know exactly what
Speaker 2: you're saying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just a bit. Yeah, it doesn't go. But
Speaker 4: being the youngest of my my mom was the youngest
Speaker 4: and being her eldest, girls hadn't been born in our
Speaker 4: family for ages, for generations and years, So I was
Speaker 4: a bit of a I sound awful saying it, but
Speaker 4: a little bit of a princess when I was smaller.
Speaker 4: So they kind of relented when I said I was
Speaker 4: joining They weren't overly happy about it, but they because
Speaker 4: I wanted to be a defense barrister, which would have
Speaker 4: made them very happy. But it didn't work out that way.
Speaker 4: I thought I was going to live and whopping, wearing
Speaker 4: power suits and driving a sports car, but it didn't happen.
Speaker 3: Was it a sliding doors moment?
Speaker 2: Or was your decision to become a police a police
Speaker 2: officer quite sealed from a younger age?
Speaker 4: God? No, I was literally I did A levels, which
Speaker 4: again is surprising for someone like me. I did my
Speaker 4: A levels and applied for university and was told there's
Speaker 4: an opening, and the police for women got doing a
Speaker 4: big recruitment drive and my dad said, I think you
Speaker 4: should give it a go.
Speaker 2: And what, Danny, what gave you the drive and ambition
Speaker 2: to want to educate yourself, to want to go to UNI?
Speaker 2: To be this driven individual from such a young age,
Speaker 2: Because normally when you're I don't want to you know,
Speaker 2: put everyone in the same category here. But normally when
Speaker 2: you come you know from that sort of background, you
Speaker 2: know those things aren't really on the cards, aren't there?
Speaker 3: You don't think right? I want to go to get
Speaker 3: you go.
Speaker 2: To college, go to university, and to get a degree
Speaker 2: or get a qualification, whatever you're sort of thrust.
Speaker 3: What forced you to take a different route.
Speaker 2: Was there a moment that that happened or was it
Speaker 2: just something that you just always wanted to do.
Speaker 4: I just always wanted a bit more, you know. I
Speaker 4: had an arty that I was closed with, and she's
Speaker 4: so funny because we say these things and you will
Speaker 4: know exactly what I mean. But my family would say
Speaker 4: go up London, but we were in London, but if
Speaker 4: they didn't go to the West End. Yeah, yeah, my
Speaker 4: Auntie would take me to the West End, like shopping
Speaker 4: and stuff. And I used to like, obviously you'd see
Speaker 4: people walking around with at that point, it was material
Speaker 4: things because you're young, you don't understand it. But I'd
Speaker 4: see like ladies with like nice hair and like nice nails,
Speaker 4: and then like a handbag, and I'd think, I really
Speaker 4: want that when I'm older. And I was really fortunate
Speaker 4: then my family let me travel a lot when I
Speaker 4: was younger, so I'd seen different things. But I just
Speaker 4: didn't want to be a housewife. I didn't know there's
Speaker 4: anything wrong with that. It just isn't for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And probably you're surrounded by it and like you said,
Speaker 2: you just wanted more, you wanted you know, you wanted
Speaker 2: something different, and then you found yourself.
Speaker 3: Did you go to UNI? Did you say?
Speaker 4: No? I didn't go because I got a police offer,
Speaker 4: so I didn't go. But if I hadn't got the
Speaker 4: police offer, I would have gone to UNI.
Speaker 2: How did the police offer sort of work? So can
Speaker 2: you remember that there? When you thought, do you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm going to give this a crack?
Speaker 4: I think it was it was my dad saying, oh,
Speaker 4: there's an opportunity, and I said, well, you're gonna have
Speaker 4: to help me with that application, because like it was
Speaker 4: just massive and ridiculous. And then he helped me with
Speaker 4: the application. And then I got a phone call saying,
Speaker 4: we've got a last minute appointment for an interview because
Speaker 4: there was a bad, massive battler. It was a two
Speaker 4: year waiting list, massive backlog, would like to interview you.
Speaker 4: And I thought great, went for the interview and I
Speaker 4: don't even know how I got through it. There was
Speaker 4: the interviews, a face to face into your chat, and
Speaker 4: then there's a loads of tests, so you do a
Speaker 4: maths test and observation test. But I just loved it.
Speaker 4: I just thought it was so cool. And then about
Speaker 4: literally a few weeks after that, I got another phone
Speaker 4: call saying congratulations with someone not shown up. Would you
Speaker 4: like to start tomorrow morning at Hendon? And I said yes,
Speaker 4: And that was it. I had no preparation, nothing, nothing.
Speaker 2: You got so someone didn't turn up for that because
Speaker 2: it's it's the two week cycles or something four week cycles.
Speaker 3: Where did you stay at Hendon?
Speaker 2: Because I don't know if that if they can do
Speaker 2: that now, but you you stay in the accommodation there
Speaker 2: was it.
Speaker 3: It's an eighteen week program.
Speaker 4: Is it that you go for eighteen weeks? Yeah? You
Speaker 4: lived there eighteen weeks. It's absolutely brilliant. I had the
Speaker 4: best time of my life because I've never had known
Speaker 4: it was like that before.
Speaker 3: In two thousand and that.
Speaker 4: Was the beginning of two thousand and three.
Speaker 2: Wow, was there a sense of pride that you're representing
Speaker 2: your dad as well?
Speaker 4: Yeah? He was so cute. He actually took me to
Speaker 4: all my exams, he took me to all my interviews,
Speaker 4: dropped me off at Hendon. He was so sweet, he
Speaker 4: was so excited. He was like, oh, I had the
Speaker 4: best time when I was here, And I was like thinking,
Speaker 4: I've never stayed away from home for that long before.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it was excellent. It was just in my
Speaker 4: head that's what UNI would be like. I mean, the
Speaker 4: downs were awful, but you don't care because everyone's in
Speaker 4: the same position, so you don't care. Yeah, the downs
Speaker 4: were horrendous, but we had a subsidized bar and it
Speaker 4: was brilliant.
Speaker 3: Do you know what? That's it?
Speaker 2: What you need, you need just to drink at the
Speaker 2: end of the day to get you through.
Speaker 3: But so Hendon took me through Hendon.
Speaker 2: It's quite intense, right you go there, you're eighteen weeks,
Speaker 2: you're living on site, you're ultimately it's a bit like
Speaker 2: a military process. You're living and breathing to become to
Speaker 2: become a police officer.
Speaker 3: What was the training like?
Speaker 4: It's intense because again I've only done at that point,
Speaker 4: only done a level was where you just go to
Speaker 4: your lesson, you're spoken that for a couple of hours
Speaker 4: and then go home do your homework. But this was
Speaker 4: intense because you're learning law and you're not learning all
Speaker 4: of it either, of course, cause eighteen weeks it's not
Speaker 4: enough time. But that side of it was difficult and
Speaker 4: I found it really a lot because I really had
Speaker 4: to study for it. But I made friends there I'm
Speaker 4: still friends with today, Like they're my best friends. Because
Speaker 4: you just Gael with a couple of people. They used
Speaker 4: to call us the three Witches. There was me and
Speaker 4: two girls and apparently when one of us would laugh,
Speaker 4: we'd all start tackling and we just we had the
Speaker 4: best time. Like we had so much banter, like it.
Speaker 3: Was just three witches.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they people hated I said. To see us coming,
Speaker 4: I'd be like, oh not memory.
Speaker 3: Oh no, here we go, do you know what?
Speaker 2: But that's what it's all about, right, And and for
Speaker 2: someone like yourself who wants stands the process, that banter
Speaker 2: is super important. It's almost like an acceptance, you know,
Speaker 2: into a clan, into a group, into an organization and
Speaker 2: your you guys were were there to.
Speaker 3: Obviously uphold law and order? What Bara did?
Speaker 4: Were you?
Speaker 3: Were you signed to you?
Speaker 4: Well, this is another funny thing. So my family are
Speaker 4: all from Tower Hamlets. I was born in my end
Speaker 4: and I went to Tower Hamlets, which was a really
Speaker 4: great idea.
Speaker 3: Oh no, you're walking around like that. I know you,
Speaker 3: I know you, I know you. Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if I had a pound for every time I
Speaker 4: walked into custody and saw someone I knew that was
Speaker 4: sat there in handcuffs, I would not I could have
Speaker 4: left the police early. It would have been and.
Speaker 2: They're like, hey, Danny, how what are you doing here?
Speaker 3: What are you doing here again? Yeah, don't talk to me,
Speaker 3: Shy away from me.
Speaker 4: But it was a good burrough because you've got crazy
Speaker 4: money in Canary Wharf, like super rich in Canary Wolf,
Speaker 4: and then you've got other places that I mean, they're
Speaker 4: up and coming now, but back then you'd have like
Speaker 4: Shadwell and Stepney that were just really poor. So for
Speaker 4: policing it was brilliant because you've got to do so
Speaker 4: much different stuff. I absolutely loved it. I thought it
Speaker 4: was I loved my job. I was very obsessed with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's very evident onto you know, going on
Speaker 2: to what you where you decided to take your career
Speaker 2: within the police force, because there's multiple sort of courses,
Speaker 2: there's multiple avenues you can go down.
Speaker 3: Did you know what you wanted to do? I take it.
Speaker 2: There's a probation period like any other where you have
Speaker 2: to do a couple of years. You know, Bobby on
Speaker 2: the beat, which doesn't exist, you know, but you know
Speaker 2: you have to go out on the streets.
Speaker 3: Is it a two year process?
Speaker 2: And then within that two years you sort of decide
Speaker 2: where you want to go from there.
Speaker 4: It's supposed to be, yes, it is exactly what's going
Speaker 4: to happen, but you know it's yeah, it's supposed to
Speaker 4: be like that. But you know, when there's a demand
Speaker 4: and they've got someone that can fit that role, it's
Speaker 4: ways and means act we like to call it. I
Speaker 4: did just shy of two years before I ended up
Speaker 4: moving on, but I had no clue where I was
Speaker 4: going out. I thought I was going to be a
Speaker 4: you know, a first team. Ever, I never thought i'd
Speaker 4: leave and go and do anything specially, So I loved it.
Speaker 4: I loved being out in the cars and running around.
Speaker 4: I thought it was like the best thing ever. You
Speaker 4: get a call off Saturday night and on a night
Speaker 4: duty there's like a fire or suspects on. I'm like, oh, go,
Speaker 4: I want to get want to be in the thick
Speaker 4: of it. I want to get amongst it. And it
Speaker 4: was evident quite early when I wasn't the person It
Speaker 4: sounds awful, but I was better with the suspects and
Speaker 4: the victims. I'm not very emotional, I'm not very tactile,
Speaker 4: So for me to be able to put my arm
Speaker 4: on someone and pat them, it just be really patronizing
Speaker 4: because it's just not who I am. And I think
Speaker 4: my my superior saw that quite quickly, and don't let
Speaker 4: her go to any victims because she's the worst person
Speaker 4: in the world.
Speaker 2: You're jumping in an app cars, You're you're going to
Speaker 2: crime scenes, You're you're you're dealing with people on the streets.
Speaker 3: Do you know what's around the corner?
Speaker 2: When I suppose you know, one of your inspectors comes
Speaker 2: up to you and says, ah, we've got a specialist
Speaker 2: trade for you. You know, do you fancy doing it?
Speaker 2: Was it as much as the hend and you know
Speaker 2: you were starting tomorrow? Was it very much like that
Speaker 2: with the specialist trade? That that was that was put
Speaker 2: in front of you?
Speaker 3: Shall we say?
Speaker 4: Yeah? They didn't word it so nicely. They told me
Speaker 4: not to come in to work the next day and
Speaker 4: go straight to New Scotland Yard and wear a suit.
Speaker 4: And I was so scared.
Speaker 3: So you're Bobby on the bee. You come back and
Speaker 3: they say this is what they say to you, don't
Speaker 3: come in tomorrow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, don't come in tomorrow. You need to be a
Speaker 4: new Scotland Yard at this time. Make sure you wear
Speaker 4: a suit.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's all I had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so come on you, you obviously put on a
Speaker 2: suit you go to New Scotland Yard.
Speaker 3: It was a suit transpire.
Speaker 4: I bought a really cheap suit from next.
Speaker 2: We all had this. The next seats don't worry about that.
Speaker 4: You know, the ones with the cheap lining in them,
Speaker 4: so if it's hot, you really sweat. Yeah, it was
Speaker 4: one of those and I said. I remember saying to
Speaker 4: my my governor, like any what can you tell me that?
Speaker 4: What's it all about? And he was like if I
Speaker 4: tell you it's too obvious, just go And I was like, amazing,
Speaker 4: thanks for that. And then I've got there and I've
Speaker 4: been to the yard before for briefings and stuff like that,
Speaker 4: but I got there, went to this floor, come out
Speaker 4: with lift and it was all closed. It was an
Speaker 4: open plan, which was odd. So I knocked on the
Speaker 4: door and I was met by this lovely Scottish man
Speaker 4: and he said, ah, you must be done here and
Speaker 4: I was like hello. He's like really nice and He
Speaker 4: just said, you obviously don't know why you're here, because
Speaker 4: he could see I was nervous. I said, I have
Speaker 4: no idea, and he took me in and he just
Speaker 4: basically explained what SCD ten was, what they do, how
Speaker 4: it works. And I made such an idiot of myself
Speaker 4: because I said, oh, no, it's fine. I've been doing
Speaker 4: undercover work anywhere in my borrow. I've been wearing my
Speaker 4: own clothes and going out and resting people in cars.
Speaker 4: And he was like, that's not how this world works.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, so go back to that
Speaker 2: title you just said, s SCD ten SCD ten, right
Speaker 2: when you come out of that meeting, what what do
Speaker 2: you understand about this.
Speaker 4: Role that I'm going to have. Basically, if I passed
Speaker 4: the corpse, have a double life, and even amongst basically
Speaker 4: the worst kinds of people in the UK, I'm going
Speaker 4: to live amongst them, infiltrate them, become their friend, and
Speaker 4: basically manipulate them to give me all the information that
Speaker 4: we need. But undercover, I'm going to be one of
Speaker 4: them and they like me, and we're all going to
Speaker 4: be friends, and I'll be honest. I walked out of
Speaker 4: there and just thought, like Jason Bourne, obviously it's nothing
Speaker 4: like that. But when you're young, you don't get it.
Speaker 4: And I remember he said to me, what's your interest?
Speaker 4: What do you like? And I remember thinking, I don't
Speaker 4: really know what you mean. Because everyone in that unit
Speaker 4: has a specialism. So some of them might be mechanics,
Speaker 4: some of them might be foreign speakers, some of them
Speaker 4: are enthusiasts and pros. Obviously I have none of that,
Speaker 4: and I just got thrown into what he or what
Speaker 4: they thought was my specialism, and it turned out it was.
Speaker 4: But you know, I was young. I knew how to party,
Speaker 4: and I knew how to go to the clubs. You know,
Speaker 4: he had to China whites on Wednesday faces on a Saturday,
Speaker 4: Like I went to those plays and I never told obviously,
Speaker 4: you never told anyone what I did for a job,
Speaker 4: But I went to all these places, so I knew
Speaker 4: how that world worked. So that's kind of where I
Speaker 4: fell into. So drugs basically became my thing to go
Speaker 4: and work on.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you literally thereafter you have to go on
Speaker 2: to a You literally have to build a double life,
Speaker 2: don't you.
Speaker 3: You literally have to to.
Speaker 2: To forget about your pre existence, and and and lie
Speaker 2: to your mind, lie to yourself that you're this other person,
Speaker 2: and it is that's exactly what it is. You know
Speaker 2: you're living a lie. You know you're lying to yourself.
Speaker 2: Therefore you're living a lie. And it's uh, you know,
Speaker 2: you're completely manufacturing something. But you have to know that
Speaker 2: people don't understand. You have to know this suitor person
Speaker 2: better than you know yourself. Right. You almost have to
Speaker 2: push yourself aside because this is the new youth from
Speaker 2: every single detail someone tries to get you out. If
Speaker 2: someone gets suspicious that you're you're an undercover, they will
Speaker 2: ask certain questions. You literally have to go so deep
Speaker 2: into this second life that you become it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true because if you're being yourself, you just
Speaker 4: know the answer because you're telling the truth. But when
Speaker 4: you've been someone else, you need to. It's constantly on
Speaker 4: your brain, like why am I here? What's my name? Like,
Speaker 4: you know, if you're walking down the street and someone
Speaker 4: shouted at Dan, I'd obviously turn around, but if I'm
Speaker 4: really most of the time you do use as close
Speaker 4: to your name as possible, but some cases you don't.
Speaker 4: So you know you need to be on just little
Speaker 4: stupid things like niances like that or that. Obviously my accent.
Speaker 4: If I'm in Scotland or in the North, what am
Speaker 4: I doing out there this accent? He's not local, so
Speaker 4: what am I doing there? So you need answers all
Speaker 4: the time. And it's not like you have to sit
Speaker 4: there really off because it's not an interview, but you
Speaker 4: need to be natural with it as well. So but
Speaker 4: I think because I was young, I didn't know any different.
Speaker 3: And how hard was that for you? For you to adapt?
Speaker 4: Surprisingly easy. I quite liked it. I felt like it
Speaker 4: was quite like active a little bit, and I thought
Speaker 4: it was quite I just I didn't know any different.
Speaker 4: And when I met some of the out former ucs
Speaker 4: or the undercover officers who had done this for years,
Speaker 4: they were so cool. In my head, I thought they
Speaker 4: were absolutely like elite and I just wanted to be
Speaker 4: a part of their click. I wanted There was no
Speaker 4: real girly girls in the unit. There was a few girls,
Speaker 4: but not many, and they weren't really girly. I was
Speaker 4: really girly, So I always felt a little bit like
Speaker 4: I was never going to get to the click because
Speaker 4: I was like the young girly stupid one. But I
Speaker 4: really wanted to be a part of the clique. I
Speaker 4: wanted them to say, do you want to go for
Speaker 4: a drink later? And I wanted to be invited to
Speaker 4: all these things. You don't get invited to unless you've
Speaker 4: made it.
Speaker 3: And it's almost that imposter syndrome, isn't it.
Speaker 2: But ultimately, when you look at that imposter syndrome, you
Speaker 2: you are actually living that boster syndrome because you're being
Speaker 2: someone else when you fully qualified for that role, when
Speaker 2: you when you when you passed the course, what was
Speaker 2: your first day at the office as a fully qualified
Speaker 2: imposter let's call it? How did what did that look like?
Speaker 3: And how did it differ from from your from what
Speaker 3: you were used to.
Speaker 4: Well, I didn't have to wash my hair before work,
Speaker 4: which was great because I wanted to look like I
Speaker 4: was on the streets, so that was great. I didn't
Speaker 4: have to put makeup on, which was amazing. I saved
Speaker 4: loads of time. Yeah, but you're conscious about what you're wearing.
Speaker 4: Because my first deployment was actually in green Lanes in Tottenham.
Speaker 4: I was used to having my makeup down, my nails,
Speaker 4: down my teeth for like everything I've wanted, everything, perfect
Speaker 4: eye lashes, but I never did any of it. Everything.
Speaker 4: I went back to basics and I had to dress
Speaker 4: to fit in. And I remember I had a pair
Speaker 4: of Nike t ns and I remember doing them up
Speaker 4: really tight to the front that sort of curled up
Speaker 4: a bit, which is just all I'd never do that,
Speaker 4: that's not me. Like I made my clothes smell. They
Speaker 4: were like damp, so I washed them, put them in
Speaker 4: a bin bag and let them dry a bit in
Speaker 4: the bin bags. And then that musty smell, so you
Speaker 4: just stink, You just look disgusting and you smell. And
Speaker 4: it was actually to go and establish a supply of crack,
Speaker 4: and I was like, I didn't know at that point
Speaker 4: obviously that this wasn't how it worked. Normally you're giving
Speaker 4: a bit of a lock on, like a phone number
Speaker 4: or we've got some intelligence to lock us onto someone,
Speaker 4: but we didn't on this one. And they just said,
Speaker 4: can you just establish a supply? And I remember thinking,
Speaker 4: I mean Tottenham, I know that there's it's around here,
Speaker 4: like of course it is, it's Green Lanes, know this place,
Speaker 4: It's fine, But I didn't have a lock on. And
Speaker 4: I remember just going into a bookies like a betting
Speaker 4: shop and saying to this man who I believe might
Speaker 4: also have the same interest as me, if he knew
Speaker 4: anyone my normal boy's not about and if you've got
Speaker 4: a number, and he said, I'll take you, but you've
Speaker 4: got to chip me off. And I didn't know what
Speaker 4: that meant, but I said yes, And basically he wanted
Speaker 4: me to. He was going to take me to a
Speaker 4: dealer and he was going to take some of the
Speaker 4: product and for himself, but.
Speaker 3: To give you a bit. Yeah.
Speaker 4: But like if that had happened like two years later,
Speaker 4: I'd have been like, absolutely not, you're not having that,
Speaker 4: because he really took quite a bit and I would
Speaker 4: have a kick off. And it actually was a bit
Speaker 4: of a disaster that job, because he took me to
Speaker 4: the house and the dealer was really happy to service.
Speaker 4: I said bye to my friend from the betting office
Speaker 4: and I started walking. I was so happy I've got
Speaker 4: it in my pocket. I'm like, yes, my adrenaline, he's
Speaker 4: through the roof. I'm so excited I've not failed, because
Speaker 4: I would hate to fail. You know, you don't want
Speaker 4: to go back and say I couldn't do it because
Speaker 4: especially your first job, like no way. But the dealer
Speaker 4: decided he took a shining to me and followed me,
Speaker 4: and I was like, amazing, this is really going well.
Speaker 4: And I remember he asked where it was again, I'm
Speaker 4: always going to rob it back because that happens all
Speaker 4: the time. So I told him I put it somewhere else.
Speaker 4: Let you go. I guess where I told you was?
Speaker 4: It was a It was in my pocket. And I mean,
Speaker 4: you'll know, you'll know Tottenham and Green Lanes if you
Speaker 4: look at it from the birds I view, it's like
Speaker 4: a ladder, so there's loads and loads of alleyways. They
Speaker 4: call it the ladder, so there's lots of opportunity to
Speaker 4: be pulled, dragged and things to go on out of you.
Speaker 4: And he decided to drag me down the alley and
Speaker 4: tell me what he would like me to do to him.
Speaker 4: And my heart was just pounding because I'm thinking, I
Speaker 4: don't know what to do, Like I really don't know
Speaker 4: what to do. I can't scream who I really am,
Speaker 4: because why would I do that. That's just going to
Speaker 4: blow everything. I'm never gonna get it again. Yeah, but
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna lie. I was scared. I was really scared.
Speaker 4: I've gone from adrenaline, super happy to really scared be
Speaker 4: in about three minutes. So my heart was just pounding
Speaker 4: at my chest and he's pulling my head and he's
Speaker 4: I'm doing his trousers and I'm thinking, this is it?
Speaker 4: What am I going to do? And the only thing
Speaker 4: I laugh about it now, but at the time I
Speaker 4: was deadly serious. The only thing I could think I
Speaker 4: was buy it and run because I could see the
Speaker 4: end of the alleyway. But if I tried to push
Speaker 4: him and run, He's going to outrun me for sure.
Speaker 4: He was way bigger than me. So all this like
Speaker 4: I was doing all this risk assessment in my head
Speaker 4: without realizing I was doing a risk assessment. It's only
Speaker 4: after I'm like, I've thought about him, thought actually that
Speaker 4: was really bad, and I'm thinking just literally and leg
Speaker 4: it because he's that then I will have an opportunity
Speaker 4: to run because he's going to be on the floor
Speaker 4: for a sec. But with that screeched off at the
Speaker 4: end of the alleyway like a builder's type van, and
Speaker 4: this guy's got out and he's calling me all sorts
Speaker 4: of names and not I won't repeat them because they're
Speaker 4: not suitable. But he was calling me names, and I
Speaker 4: just remember looking at it and thinking, I recognize you,
Speaker 4: but I don't know why. And he'd been in my briefing,
Speaker 4: so before i'd been deployed. We have like a briefing,
Speaker 4: and he'd been in the briefing. But I've obviously just
Speaker 4: scanned the room and I've obviously noted it but not
Speaker 4: really taken much notice m And he's like you, how
Speaker 4: dare you? You always do this to me? And the
Speaker 4: dealer was saying she asked for it, man like she
Speaker 4: wanted it, bro like it was all her And I'm like, no,
Speaker 4: like I'm not cried, but I want to cry. I'm like,
Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't like that. I'm sorry, and I'm
Speaker 4: going along with what this guy from the van saying
Speaker 4: and I'm not. I'm still not really sure what's happening.
Speaker 4: So anyway, I've gone in the van with this guy
Speaker 4: and he said, are you're right? And I said yeah,
Speaker 4: but who are you? Like, how did you know I
Speaker 4: was there? Because you're on your own, you don't have
Speaker 4: a team on you. I said, how did you know
Speaker 4: I was there? And he said, you've got a two
Speaker 4: way phone in your pocket. Obviously had like a dirt
Speaker 4: called a dirty phone in my pocket, but I didn't.
Speaker 4: They didn't tell me. They could hear everything that was
Speaker 4: going on. It's a two ways so they could hear
Speaker 4: constantly because it's my first employment. Maybe it was their
Speaker 4: little safety blanket. But didn't want scary until we like,
Speaker 4: by the way, we're popping this in your pocket so
Speaker 4: they could heal the melee and knew where I was
Speaker 4: and they come and got me. But it was tear
Speaker 4: medals when we got back.
Speaker 2: So you had you had the top cover there, but
Speaker 2: you just didn't know about it.
Speaker 4: No, I had no idea.
Speaker 2: And I suppose that keeps you, That keeps you sort
Speaker 2: of innocent, That keeps you, you know, rather than you know,
Speaker 2: probably saying keywords that you that you if you know
Speaker 2: you've got a phone on you, that that would give
Speaker 2: away the game. It's just it's does these subtle hints, yeah,
Speaker 2: that you know, especially these criminals are so so knowledgeable now,
Speaker 2: they're so sophisticated. They can spot spot people from a
Speaker 2: mile off. And I suppose it stopped you from from
Speaker 2: really sort of you know, panicking and knowing that you've
Speaker 2: got back up.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 2: So that was your that was your first job. Once
Speaker 2: you got into the van and you you you went back,
Speaker 2: did you did? Was it a not question? Did not
Speaker 2: raise questions in your head to think is this the
Speaker 2: job for me? Or was that just a no?
Speaker 3: No, no no. I've got top cover behind me.
Speaker 2: You know, I've succeeded in this first sort of mission,
Speaker 2: this first task.
Speaker 3: And listen, let let's go again.
Speaker 4: When I was in van, I was thinking what am
Speaker 4: I doing? But when I got back and everyone's like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, that was amazing, that was brilliant. You
Speaker 4: really held it all together, and you're getting told by
Speaker 4: the people that you're looking up to how great it was.
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, I playing trying to be all cool,
Speaker 4: but really, inside, what have I just done? I really
Speaker 4: didn't want to let them know that I was nervous
Speaker 4: because I didn't like them to think I was weak,
Speaker 4: which is ridiculous, like you're weak, you're week No, of course,
Speaker 4: at the time, I didn't want to be weak.
Speaker 2: When did it start to go on to the more
Speaker 2: sort of CD stuff. You know, were you assigned just
Speaker 2: for for the drugs in a specific time scale, and
Speaker 2: then did you go on to the more called it
Speaker 2: hardcore stuff or was it just different different missions at
Speaker 2: a time. One could be a drug one, one could
Speaker 2: be a pedophile, one could be a sex offender or
Speaker 2: how how did that work?
Speaker 4: So some days I'd have more than one job, one
Speaker 4: more than one deployment, which was wild. But you don't
Speaker 4: get the good, the good good jobs like pubs, clubs, festivals.
Speaker 4: You don't get those jobs until you've proven yourself with
Speaker 4: the horrible jobs. So you're like the one the CD jobs,
Speaker 4: So you have to kind of you have to do
Speaker 4: loads of the horrible what we classes horrible jobs before
Speaker 4: they will deploy you into a pub. I mean, anyone
Speaker 4: can go into a pub and score. It's like it's easy,
Speaker 4: isn't it. I'd much rather dressed like that than like
Speaker 4: some of the ways I was stressing. And then for
Speaker 4: the decoys stuff, I did loads of decoy work, but
Speaker 4: decoys rarely work. I think there's an hour in the
Speaker 4: UK there's now only five successful operations for decoys. But
Speaker 4: my successful decay job. When I say this, that allowed
Speaker 4: it just sounds ridiculous. But we had a predator. There
Speaker 4: was like over one hundred and twenty one victims of
Speaker 4: this predator. He was started with a bit of upskirting,
Speaker 4: bit of overclothing touching, and it was all school goals.
Speaker 4: And they said to me, now this is where the
Speaker 4: banter comes in. And people are like, what is wrong
Speaker 4: with you? But you have to be in through it.
Speaker 4: When I got this phone call from my handler and
Speaker 4: he said I've got this job for you and it's
Speaker 4: perfect and he was laughing, I knew there was something
Speaker 4: not quite right with it. So I went to the
Speaker 4: briefing and they said, we've got your You don't need
Speaker 4: to bring any kit. We've got the kit here for you.
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, brilliant, amazing, because sometimes you would
Speaker 4: get that. Sometimes you might get a nice new coat
Speaker 4: to wear, or if it's somewhere high end in the West End,
Speaker 4: they'd get you a nice outfit. But I've walked into
Speaker 4: this room and it was on a TSG base like
Speaker 4: the Riot Riot Police Tactical Support root base, which is
Speaker 4: never a good thing. That's never good walking in there
Speaker 4: as a UC because you know, but something really going
Speaker 4: to go down it. And they pulled that school uniform
Speaker 4: and said that's your kid, go and put it on
Speaker 4: and I was just like, I'm not putting on a
Speaker 4: school uniform walking back in this room with this lot,
Speaker 4: and they were like, yes, you will, and.
Speaker 3: I was like, no, it's your job getting on.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So I went and put it on, and I
Speaker 4: was just like I was really skinny then, like really young,
Speaker 4: really skinny, and I was just putting on this school
Speaker 4: uniform and I felt such an idiot.
Speaker 2: So so Danny just just just jumping back into that
Speaker 2: and jumping into your mindset, jumping into your headspace.
Speaker 3: You know you're going to be on this job for
Speaker 3: a while. You're you know you're you're undercover.
Speaker 2: Yes, you're after a predator. You know you in your
Speaker 2: head are you thinking, you know we got to put
Speaker 2: it in an end to this? You know more, more
Speaker 2: people are going to suffer. You know you're ultimately you're
Speaker 2: serving the people, right, But but do you get into
Speaker 2: a sense of character. You know, it's not just in case.
Speaker 2: You're putting it on once and away you go. You know,
Speaker 2: you're you're you're donning this school uniform every single day.
Speaker 2: You know a year, you're jumping into into a different character.
Speaker 2: You've got to act like a young naive probably drunken
Speaker 2: school girl, whatever it may be.
Speaker 3: How hard is that does and does it engulf your
Speaker 3: whole life?
Speaker 2: You know, people go leave, leave your work at work,
Speaker 2: and you know, but it's very, very hard to do
Speaker 2: that with something like this because you know, you're living
Speaker 2: and breathing it, living and breathing it until it becomes
Speaker 2: the norm. Because when it does become the norm, that's
Speaker 2: when you know, that's when it works. How how what's
Speaker 2: going through your head and or you just running with it?
Speaker 2: Are you just you're just rolling with it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really funny you say that, because at the time,
Speaker 4: I'll be honest, I was just rolling with it my head.
Speaker 4: I was like, I work, of course you want to
Speaker 4: catch them. I'm super competitive. I don't like losing, so
Speaker 4: of course you don't want them to be smarter than you.
Speaker 4: You want to get them. And there've been so much
Speaker 4: more of this operation before it got to this point.
Speaker 4: You know, they've done surveillance and lots of staff, but
Speaker 4: they just couldn't get him. They had one grainy picture
Speaker 4: of this guy. He was super CCTV aware, so I
Speaker 4: was obviously keen to get him. But what I will
Speaker 4: say is deeper jobs are very few and far between
Speaker 4: with a good success, Like they're not very successful. So
Speaker 4: I'll be honest and say I wasn't convinced we wouldn't
Speaker 4: necessarily get him. So you just, yeah, you're running kind
Speaker 4: of and it's horrible because it's kids, and you have
Speaker 4: to like it's just it's just not acceptable. So you're like,
Speaker 4: you do want to get him, but it wasn't. We
Speaker 4: did it for two weeks and it wasn't, which is
Speaker 4: a very short deployment.
Speaker 2: But every day you're getting dressed in the same school uniform.
Speaker 2: Was your routine, Like you're hanging around bus stops at
Speaker 2: peak school times, I take it, and you're having to
Speaker 2: blend in and probably people have never seen you before.
Speaker 3: Who the hell are you? And you know, yeah, school kids.
Speaker 4: The girls it was an all girls school, and they
Speaker 4: were like I'm there in the same uniform as them
Speaker 4: when they're getting on the bus, like you're not coming
Speaker 4: on the bus. I'm like, I'm not going in there.
Speaker 4: I'm not going today, and they just as a bit of
Speaker 4: a rebel and I was just going to like not
Speaker 4: I was the new girl and I'm just not going
Speaker 4: to school and I've been put there by my parents
Speaker 4: because I'm naughty. Without going into extreme detail with you,
Speaker 4: but on that particular job, we did have a team
Speaker 4: because of course he could strike at any point. We
Speaker 4: did have a team, so there was a surveillance team
Speaker 4: around so if he did attack, they would get him quick.
Speaker 4: But to this day, that was probably my best job,
Speaker 4: even though it was like not as exciting as some
Speaker 4: of the others, because some of the others, you know,
Speaker 4: it's really intense when you're infiltrating an arm robbery gang.
Speaker 4: That's intense. That's really big work. And this wasn't long
Speaker 4: and big work, but the impact it had after and
Speaker 4: now I've left, I've left that bubble. When I look
Speaker 4: back at it, I'm really glad I did that, and
Speaker 4: I'm glad it was me that did that. So the
Speaker 4: last day of the job, this is really weird as well.
Speaker 4: And you like what you said about mentally, like you
Speaker 4: know things in your gut and your head. I don't
Speaker 4: know why. The phone rang, my dirty phone rang, and
Speaker 4: it was my senior investigating officer, and she said, end exercise,
Speaker 4: go back to your safety location. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 4: for some reason, I don't I can't tell you why
Speaker 4: I started walking and I turned round and there was
Speaker 4: this guy and he was peering around the corner of
Speaker 4: like the it's like a corner of the house, but
Speaker 4: it was like a bush and a bit of a wall.
Speaker 4: But I'd seen him. I kept walking and before I
Speaker 4: could even get myself together, I think, actually that might
Speaker 4: have been something because in the grainy CCTV he was similar,
Speaker 4: same address. But before I could even get my thoughts together,
Speaker 4: I could it behind me and he just grabbed me
Speaker 4: around the throat, put me on the floor, done what
Speaker 4: you wanted to do, which felt like it lasted for
Speaker 4: like ever, but it wasn't. It was literally less than
Speaker 4: a minute because the team obviously saw it and they
Speaker 4: got him, which was great because it was me and
Speaker 4: not another So.
Speaker 3: What do you mean? So he grabs you around the throat?
Speaker 2: So you hear these footsteps and you've been told to
Speaker 2: endex so this is like index you know, listen, mission
Speaker 2: didn't work. So he's grabbed you from the back, pulled
Speaker 2: you what pulled?
Speaker 3: Pinned you to the grad.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm on the floor. He's getting himself to a
Speaker 4: position where he wants to be, you know what I mean? Ah,
Speaker 4: But again, like again, It's good it's me because I
Speaker 4: know that I'm putting myself in that position, and I'm
Speaker 4: an adult and i know what I'm doing and I
Speaker 4: can I can deal with it. So I'm glad it
Speaker 4: was me and not one of the girls, because that's
Speaker 4: it just ruined their life. It's just awful. And some
Speaker 4: of the girls mum's actually wrote me letters after and
Speaker 4: that's what I think. It's my best job because you
Speaker 4: see what your work has impacted someone. And one of
Speaker 4: the moms said that her daughter had actually been a
Speaker 4: repeat victim, so he'd got a twice, not that he
Speaker 4: knew it was the same girl because he just saw
Speaker 4: the uniform. And she said in the letter that she
Speaker 4: you know, her daughter can now sleep at night, she's
Speaker 4: not weting the bed. And as a parent, I'm like,
Speaker 4: oh yeah, but I'm glad.
Speaker 3: It was me.
Speaker 2: And you can almost put aside all of all of
Speaker 2: the fucking seediness, all of the vileness aside, knowing that
Speaker 2: you've you know that you've pared for this, You put
Speaker 2: your yourself in the fire in line to protect these
Speaker 2: young girls. Is that is that how you is that
Speaker 2: how you deal with it? Is that how you how
Speaker 2: you move on with something like that, because that's some serious,
Speaker 2: you know, headspace to fucking try and try and deal with.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, I think I just look at it as
Speaker 4: a as a positive. I've done a good job. And
Speaker 4: it sounds cheesy, doesn't it, But ultimately it doesn't.
Speaker 3: It doesn't.
Speaker 4: You signed up to a discipline service to serve your country.
Speaker 4: You're serving the queen. We're there king now with the Queen.
Speaker 4: So you can't all of a sudden say, oh no,
Speaker 4: actually I don't want to do that anymore. Like that's
Speaker 4: your You've taken on that job. You know what you're
Speaker 4: signing up for.
Speaker 2: I love that because you know, that's that's what the
Speaker 2: same wor when I signed up is like, you know,
Speaker 2: I was expecting to go to combat. I was expecting to,
Speaker 2: you know, to lose comrades. I was expecting to potentially
Speaker 2: lose my life. And it's like, you know, you you're
Speaker 2: putting your your ultimately putting your life on the line.
Speaker 2: You're sacrificing the the ultimate which is you know, which
Speaker 2: is yourself to get a job done. And I find
Speaker 2: that very commendable of you because it's exactly how it
Speaker 2: should be. You know, you know exactly what you've got
Speaker 2: involved with. You know, yeah, okay things might you know
Speaker 2: what happened to you as a horrendous and you know
Speaker 2: what what you know, but you just don't know, right,
Speaker 2: That's why you do that line that line of work
Speaker 2: was it was it quite easy for you just to
Speaker 2: brush that off and go on to the next job.
Speaker 4: Yes, but again down to the because of the banter
Speaker 4: of my colleagues. So when we went back, for example,
Speaker 4: after we went back, they need to get the uniform
Speaker 4: obviously because it's evidence. But they're all laughing. You can
Speaker 4: imagine the banks. Imagine they're like, you've got the money shot.
Speaker 4: They've obviously viewed the footage. You've got the money shot.
Speaker 4: I'm like, of course she did. And then after this
Speaker 4: is a bit twisted, but not twisted because I'm glad
Speaker 4: they did it, because otherwise you could put yourself in
Speaker 4: a hole, couldn't you. They once you went through call
Speaker 4: and they gave all the evidence back to the police
Speaker 4: and it only gets destroyed. But on this occasion they
Speaker 4: decided to dry a click in the school uniform and
Speaker 4: give it to me as a trophy, which.
Speaker 2: Is just like, this is I get it because of
Speaker 2: the I think the banter is it's almost like a yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like a medal, isn't it.
Speaker 3: It's like and you know, people will go, what the
Speaker 3: hell are you want about?
Speaker 2: But unless you've been there and put yourself in those
Speaker 2: situations and understand that the dark humor, the dark banter
Speaker 2: actually gets you through these situations. You know, if you
Speaker 2: were just to sit there and go, oh my god,
Speaker 2: that was terrible, were you okay? And almost pampering to
Speaker 2: to something that that you know that is there but
Speaker 2: you know is in the background, and then it brings
Speaker 2: it to the forefront, and then you know you're creating
Speaker 2: a problem.
Speaker 3: How important is it and how did it help you through?
Speaker 2: You know, this, this this dark banter or this dark humor.
Speaker 4: I just don't I think you don't give it enough time.
Speaker 4: You're in a bubble. You're in this bubble, so it's
Speaker 4: only after you leave you think about it. You go, well, actually,
Speaker 4: that was a bit much that or I would do
Speaker 4: that now. And there's loads of I say that, And
Speaker 4: as a mother of a daughter who is the age
Speaker 4: I was when I was doing that stuff, there's no
Speaker 4: way she's doing any of that stuff in a million
Speaker 4: years I think you just get on with it, don't you.
Speaker 4: You're like, it's your job, you just get on with it.
Speaker 4: And I am really pro police, and I will say
Speaker 4: I am pro. Yes, the metsicine a complete mess at
Speaker 4: the minute, but I think that it was different then
Speaker 4: to what it is now. It was just different. You know,
Speaker 4: we could banter and no one would be offended with anything.
Speaker 4: Like I didn't care what people said to me. I'd
Speaker 4: give it back and if I was upset, that's my
Speaker 4: be on me, because this is not the industry to like.
Speaker 2: You said, you know, the crime is different, you know
Speaker 2: the substance use is different. You know, the people are different.
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's a it's in a huge mess,
Speaker 2: which which we both know. And why did you decide
Speaker 2: to leave? You know, you serve ten years and what
Speaker 2: was your mindset on leaving the force.
Speaker 4: I think it was more I grew up a bit
Speaker 4: and I you know, I couldn't do this forever. I
Speaker 4: was running around every day doing living another life, which
Speaker 4: was fantastic and it did help me a lot, but
Speaker 4: I also had a real life when I had kids,
Speaker 4: and kids, you know, they take up a lot of time,
Speaker 4: and I was getting to the point where I was
Speaker 4: putting myself in these really dangerous positions where I could
Speaker 4: get really hurt, and what's going to happen with my kids.
Speaker 4: I went from a really messy divorce, like a really
Speaker 4: messy divorce, so that also wasn't, you know, the best period.
Speaker 4: So that happened to me that my kids then just
Speaker 4: go and live with their dad, like what happens here?
Speaker 4: Like this is a really difficult position. And I didn't
Speaker 4: just leave. I took a career break. I thought, I'm
Speaker 4: just going to take a little bit of a career
Speaker 4: break and then I'll come back. And I was getting
Speaker 4: phone calls every day say you know you're coming back?
Speaker 4: Here are you coming back? We need you back. There's
Speaker 4: no one else can do what you're doing. Can you
Speaker 4: come back? And in the end, I just I was
Speaker 4: being mum and it sounds awful, but I was being
Speaker 4: full time mom, which freaked me out because I'm not
Speaker 4: a school mum. You know, I'm not one of those
Speaker 4: mums that hang around the playground. I'm just not That's
Speaker 4: just not for me. And if they talk to me,
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh god, I don't talk to me because
Speaker 4: I haven't got to talk with this, we'll get to
Speaker 4: work and there's nothing wrong with that. It just wasn't
Speaker 4: for me. Yeah, of course I found that. Really I
Speaker 4: just wasn't that lady. And then an opportunity to come
Speaker 4: to move to France, so I took the kids. We
Speaker 4: moved to France. We put the kids in French school,
Speaker 4: which was the best thing we ever did, because our
Speaker 4: kids speak for it and read right to speak French.
Speaker 4: Our daughters. She's the smartest stupid person I've ever met.
Speaker 4: She's got no common sense, but she can speak, read,
Speaker 4: and write three languages. And as a brick that's really impressive,
Speaker 4: isn't it.
Speaker 2: An't You've gone from a sort of a specialist organization
Speaker 2: to uh.
Speaker 3: To the media world. How how did the media world?
Speaker 3: You know a good old Channel four.
Speaker 2: Because I think Hunted came just after say who Dares Wins?
Speaker 2: So we were that's why, that's why we know. We
Speaker 2: were floating around in the same sort of building and
Speaker 2: you know, a crossing paths and you know.
Speaker 3: This is why I've got you on the podcast. But
Speaker 3: how did that find?
Speaker 4: You should never have found me. It was a friend
Speaker 4: of a friend had said, oh I've got this job,
Speaker 4: and she worded it in a way that they made
Speaker 4: out that they were saying that someone was missing and
Speaker 4: they needed my assistance. And I was like, absolutely, no problem.
Speaker 4: It was a Tuesday and god, it's so embarrassing. I
Speaker 4: had lever trousers on a blow dry because I was
Speaker 4: going out in the West End on that Tuesday night.
Speaker 4: And the way she's working was just a meeting. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I thought I was real essex, Like that was my
Speaker 4: essex moment. And I said, all right, it's just a
Speaker 4: quick meeting. I'm going out. I've got to the building
Speaker 4: and it was Shine Offices in Camden and I was like,
Speaker 4: what is going on? And this lovely lady, she's like,
Speaker 4: you obviously clearly don't know what you're doing. And I
Speaker 4: was like, I have no idea, and she said, you're
Speaker 4: here for a casting and audition. I said for what
Speaker 4: she explained, hunted it was meant to be at the time,
Speaker 4: it was only supposed to be a pilot and a
Speaker 4: bit of a social experiment, and I said absolutely not.
Speaker 4: You know, I've lived my entire life under the radar.
Speaker 4: I've never ever.
Speaker 3: Put in the shadow by myself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And then I said, there's no way I'm now
Speaker 4: going to put my face on TV. And she played
Speaker 4: me in my own game and manipulated me a little bit,
Speaker 4: and she said, look, let's just see one piece of camera.
Speaker 4: But in my head something clicked and I just thought, oh,
Speaker 4: it's just one piece of camera and just pretend you're
Speaker 4: one of the other people that used to be and
Speaker 4: then I just did this piece to camera and that
Speaker 4: was it. In the back that we did like ten
Speaker 4: seasons of it and celebrity season, so that it's Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you know what the same with us says has
Speaker 2: been going on for now ten years. Obviously we've we've
Speaker 2: bounced over or I've bounced over with Olie to SAS
Speaker 2: Australia and now you know we I am now bringing
Speaker 2: out my own format in the UAE in Dubai, which
Speaker 2: is obviously got the S A S DNA, but an
Speaker 2: evolved format and an evolved media format which I'm going
Speaker 2: to be pushing out in the UAE in the wider
Speaker 2: GCC regions. So yeah, it's exciting stuff. So this is
Speaker 2: where you met Ben as well you met your your husband.
Speaker 3: Now before you know, before we.
Speaker 2: Wrap up, tell me about I like Ben, I've gotten
Speaker 2: well with Ben we touch base.
Speaker 3: So was it love at first sight?
Speaker 4: This is terrible. Apparently he've written you on the spot now, yeah,
Speaker 4: this is And you're going to laugh when I tell
Speaker 4: you this story because you'll be like, was I there?
Speaker 4: You were actually there?
Speaker 3: It was a fronts yea, was it? Come on? Tell me,
Speaker 3: tell me tell me.
Speaker 4: Well, apparently he remembers seeing me at work, obviously, but
Speaker 4: I just thought he was just the guy in HQ.
Speaker 4: Didn't think much of it. It's work whatever. I'm there
Speaker 4: to do a job, obviously getting you as you know,
Speaker 4: when you once you get into the Channel four, they
Speaker 4: smoose you and they put you all these fancy parties
Speaker 4: and you're out of your comfors over loving life. So me,
Speaker 4: Ben Nick and Blex we were the four that always
Speaker 4: got picked to do all the media stuff, which I
Speaker 4: don't know why asked for but us for so us
Speaker 4: were kind of put together a lot. And then we
Speaker 4: went to the Upfront, which obviously we'd never been to
Speaker 4: a party like that before, so we thought he was
Speaker 4: the best thing we've ever seen. They got shy effects
Speaker 4: playing live and like everything's free, so you know, like
Speaker 4: ex military and explain it if it's free. You're like, wow,
Speaker 4: it's free, Yes, free things. And then as I went
Speaker 4: to say goodbye to him, he kissed me and I
Speaker 4: was like, why did you do that? And then he said,
Speaker 4: what why did you do that? Now you made it
Speaker 4: awkward and weird. And that was it. We've been together.
Speaker 4: We got married last week.
Speaker 3: Congratulation. Do you know what? I love that? Love that. Yes,
Speaker 3: we've got a wedding on head Game. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But you know what, he's a great guy, a great series,
Speaker 2: great fun is you know, and also it leads to
Speaker 2: other opportunities. And what I love about it, and you
Speaker 2: mentioned it there. What I love about my decision to
Speaker 2: do it, to go from living in the in the
Speaker 2: shadows to the limelight, is it's just exposed a different
Speaker 2: part of me.
Speaker 3: It's exposed a different you know.
Speaker 2: It's like we could so easily just filter back into
Speaker 2: the background, live under these rocks, and you know, for
Speaker 2: me go around at Africa doing a security circuit and
Speaker 2: doing what I need to do, you know, a bit
Speaker 2: of mercenary work whatever whatever it may be. But to
Speaker 2: take that step and that leap of faith into into
Speaker 2: what we've done, I can I know what it's like
Speaker 2: I know how hard it is, I know what it takes.
Speaker 2: You know you're so I can only say well done
Speaker 2: to you, Danny.
Speaker 3: What's next for you?
Speaker 4: So? Ben and I own a cybersecurity company nice, which
Speaker 4: is great. I still can't. I still keep my toe
Speaker 4: in here and again you're in there, but I just
Speaker 4: we've literally moved out. So Ben and I have a
Speaker 4: quite a similar background, We've both done similar work, and
Speaker 4: we've just basically moved it all to digital. We've literally
Speaker 4: taken what we used to do physically to online. We
Speaker 4: teach open source intelligence, we do a lot of digital
Speaker 4: vulnerability for lots of different variety of people. And you know,
Speaker 4: the business is going from strength to strength. We're really
Speaker 4: we're putting everything into it. We love it, we're really
Speaker 4: excited about it. And I literally lived by the motto
Speaker 4: of no risk, no story, because that's literally how my
Speaker 4: life is. And I say yes to everything. So why
Speaker 4: did I say yes to that?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 3: But you say yes, no story? I love that? Do
Speaker 3: you know what?
Speaker 2: And I say, there's no growth in comfort, but no risk,
Speaker 2: no story. Absolutely right. And talking about stories, You've written
Speaker 2: a book as well.
Speaker 4: Haven't you, yes, which is again mental you know I
Speaker 4: did a levels, but I didn't think I'd ever be
Speaker 4: an author, let alone an award with an author. Does
Speaker 4: that even happen?
Speaker 2: Do you know what, Danny, You and me have followed
Speaker 2: the same career. Really, we've just you know, I've been
Speaker 2: in the military, You've been in the police. We've both
Speaker 2: jumped out. You've gone to hunting, I've gone to sa
Speaker 2: I've written loads of books. You've written loads of books.
Speaker 2: Where can we get your book?
Speaker 4: And well, there's two. I'll say the second version is better.
Speaker 4: There's too one of the first ones called Go for
Speaker 4: the Job, and the second one's Undercover Copper Amazon. Of
Speaker 4: course all the best bookstores are selling it, and the
Speaker 4: ones that aren't selling it, of course they're missing out.
Speaker 4: It's really cool. And there's more happening with the book
Speaker 4: in the background, which is really exciting. I think it's
Speaker 4: allowed to be said. But the basically the book's been
Speaker 4: made into a drama, which is really.
Speaker 2: Yes, that is awesome, that's what you want. Listen your
Speaker 2: smashing life. It's really really good to see Danny. But Danny,
Speaker 2: thank you so much. Your story will inspire others phenomenally.
Speaker 2: It's been a great conversation loved having you on, I
Speaker 2: loved having a fellow over it on there on with me,
Speaker 2: and I wish you all the best for the future.
Speaker 4: Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 2: For more stories from Danny's life undercover, check out How
Speaker 2: Book The Girl for the Job.
Speaker 3: It's out now.
Speaker 2: You can also follow Danny on Instagram. I'll put the
Speaker 2: details in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's episode,
Speaker 2: please share with a friend or leave me a review.
Speaker 3: I'm at Middleton. Catch you on the next episode.