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Speaker 1: This episode of Headgame was recorded on gaddigal Land. This

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Speaker 1: episode contains discussions of sexual assault. If this raises any

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Speaker 1: issues for you, support is available through the links and

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Speaker 1: phone numbers in the show notes.

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Speaker 2: It's a chilly day in London as a young girl

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Speaker 2: stands waiting for the bus, dressed in a plaid skirt

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Speaker 2: over the knee, socks and blazer. She appears to be

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Speaker 2: a local schoolgirl to most passers by. In reality, the

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Speaker 2: innocent looking teen is twenty nine year old undercover police

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Speaker 2: officer Danny Brook. She's in her tenth year with the

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Speaker 2: Metropolitan Police. Today she's part of a sting hunting a

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Speaker 2: predator accused of more than one hundred assaults on children.

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Speaker 2: Just as Danny receives a call that the operation is

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Speaker 2: being aborted, she's grabbed from behind and thrown to the ground.

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Speaker 2: A convicted sex offender overpowers Danny and exposes himself.

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Speaker 3: Back up swoops in.

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Speaker 2: Danny would soon leave the force after putting her life

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Speaker 2: in jeopardy day after day. I'm Att Middleton and this

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Speaker 2: is head Game Today. What it takes to live a

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Speaker 2: double life from former undercover officer Danny Brook. Danny Brook

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Speaker 2: is a former undercover police officer, which we're going to

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Speaker 2: dive into in a second, but also now known for

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Speaker 2: the Channel four series Hunted.

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Speaker 3: So Danny is great to have you on. How are you.

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Speaker 4: I'm good, Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure

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Speaker 4: to be here.

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Speaker 2: Now, Danny, let's go back to your younger days. What

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Speaker 2: enticed you to become a police officer. What is your

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Speaker 2: family life like? Were you surrounded with police officers? Is

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Speaker 2: that run in the family? How does that look?

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Speaker 4: It's a bit of a weird one. Actually, where I

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Speaker 4: grew up. I grew up. I was born in a London,

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Speaker 4: which obviously police are not. You don't join the police

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Speaker 4: fIF from East London. We grew up in Essex. Again,

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Speaker 4: you don't join the police if you grew up in Essex.

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Speaker 4: My mom's found. My mom's one or thirteen, so she's

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Speaker 4: got thirteen siblings, she's the youngest and they were of

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Speaker 4: Sicilian descent. Now that also doesn't bode well with policing.

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Speaker 4: They police themselves, they're very protective. So yeah, it definitely

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Speaker 4: wasn't from my mom's side at all. But my dad

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Speaker 4: was a police officer. Again, when that doesn't bode well.

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Speaker 4: So when my parents got together. My family weren't happy

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Speaker 4: about it.

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Speaker 3: Oh was it obvious friction from the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Did your your side accept or do they still not

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Speaker 2: accept my dad?

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Speaker 4: No, they definitely didn't accept it. You know, the divorce

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Speaker 4: was a shotgun divorce. It was like they only got

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Speaker 4: married because she was pregnant with me, basically, and they

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Speaker 4: got married. It was just obviously not meant to be.

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Speaker 4: From different worlds. My dad was privately educated boarding school,

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Speaker 4: you know, East London. It just doesn't go, is.

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Speaker 3: You know what? It doesn't does it?

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Speaker 4: Now?

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Speaker 3: You said it?

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Speaker 2: And me being a Britain coming from you know, I

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Speaker 2: was brought up in North London. My father was from Enfield,

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Speaker 2: my mother was from Portsmouth. So I know exactly what

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Speaker 2: you're saying.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just a bit. Yeah, it doesn't go. But

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Speaker 4: being the youngest of my my mom was the youngest

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Speaker 4: and being her eldest, girls hadn't been born in our

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Speaker 4: family for ages, for generations and years, So I was

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Speaker 4: a bit of a I sound awful saying it, but

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Speaker 4: a little bit of a princess when I was smaller.

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Speaker 4: So they kind of relented when I said I was

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Speaker 4: joining They weren't overly happy about it, but they because

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Speaker 4: I wanted to be a defense barrister, which would have

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Speaker 4: made them very happy. But it didn't work out that way.

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Speaker 4: I thought I was going to live and whopping, wearing

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Speaker 4: power suits and driving a sports car, but it didn't happen.

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Speaker 3: Was it a sliding doors moment?

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Speaker 2: Or was your decision to become a police a police

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Speaker 2: officer quite sealed from a younger age?

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Speaker 4: God? No, I was literally I did A levels, which

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Speaker 4: again is surprising for someone like me. I did my

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Speaker 4: A levels and applied for university and was told there's

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Speaker 4: an opening, and the police for women got doing a

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Speaker 4: big recruitment drive and my dad said, I think you

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Speaker 4: should give it a go.

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Speaker 2: And what, Danny, what gave you the drive and ambition

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Speaker 2: to want to educate yourself, to want to go to UNI?

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Speaker 2: To be this driven individual from such a young age,

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Speaker 2: Because normally when you're I don't want to you know,

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Speaker 2: put everyone in the same category here. But normally when

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Speaker 2: you come you know from that sort of background, you

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Speaker 2: know those things aren't really on the cards, aren't there?

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Speaker 3: You don't think right? I want to go to get

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Speaker 3: you go.

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Speaker 2: To college, go to university, and to get a degree

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Speaker 2: or get a qualification, whatever you're sort of thrust.

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Speaker 3: What forced you to take a different route.

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Speaker 2: Was there a moment that that happened or was it

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Speaker 2: just something that you just always wanted to do.

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Speaker 4: I just always wanted a bit more, you know. I

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Speaker 4: had an arty that I was closed with, and she's

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Speaker 4: so funny because we say these things and you will

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Speaker 4: know exactly what I mean. But my family would say

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Speaker 4: go up London, but we were in London, but if

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Speaker 4: they didn't go to the West End. Yeah, yeah, my

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Speaker 4: Auntie would take me to the West End, like shopping

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Speaker 4: and stuff. And I used to like, obviously you'd see

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Speaker 4: people walking around with at that point, it was material

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Speaker 4: things because you're young, you don't understand it. But I'd

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Speaker 4: see like ladies with like nice hair and like nice nails,

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Speaker 4: and then like a handbag, and I'd think, I really

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Speaker 4: want that when I'm older. And I was really fortunate

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Speaker 4: then my family let me travel a lot when I

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Speaker 4: was younger, so I'd seen different things. But I just

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Speaker 4: didn't want to be a housewife. I didn't know there's

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Speaker 4: anything wrong with that. It just isn't for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And probably you're surrounded by it and like you said,

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Speaker 2: you just wanted more, you wanted you know, you wanted

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Speaker 2: something different, and then you found yourself.

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Speaker 3: Did you go to UNI? Did you say?

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Speaker 4: No? I didn't go because I got a police offer,

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Speaker 4: so I didn't go. But if I hadn't got the

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Speaker 4: police offer, I would have gone to UNI.

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Speaker 2: How did the police offer sort of work? So can

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Speaker 2: you remember that there? When you thought, do you know what,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to give this a crack?

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Speaker 4: I think it was it was my dad saying, oh,

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Speaker 4: there's an opportunity, and I said, well, you're gonna have

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Speaker 4: to help me with that application, because like it was

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Speaker 4: just massive and ridiculous. And then he helped me with

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Speaker 4: the application. And then I got a phone call saying,

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Speaker 4: we've got a last minute appointment for an interview because

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Speaker 4: there was a bad, massive battler. It was a two

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Speaker 4: year waiting list, massive backlog, would like to interview you.

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Speaker 4: And I thought great, went for the interview and I

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Speaker 4: don't even know how I got through it. There was

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Speaker 4: the interviews, a face to face into your chat, and

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Speaker 4: then there's a loads of tests, so you do a

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Speaker 4: maths test and observation test. But I just loved it.

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Speaker 4: I just thought it was so cool. And then about

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Speaker 4: literally a few weeks after that, I got another phone

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Speaker 4: call saying congratulations with someone not shown up. Would you

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Speaker 4: like to start tomorrow morning at Hendon? And I said yes,

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Speaker 4: And that was it. I had no preparation, nothing, nothing.

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Speaker 2: You got so someone didn't turn up for that because

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Speaker 2: it's it's the two week cycles or something four week cycles.

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Speaker 3: Where did you stay at Hendon?

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Speaker 2: Because I don't know if that if they can do

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Speaker 2: that now, but you you stay in the accommodation there

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Speaker 2: was it.

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Speaker 3: It's an eighteen week program.

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Speaker 4: Is it that you go for eighteen weeks? Yeah? You

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Speaker 4: lived there eighteen weeks. It's absolutely brilliant. I had the

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Speaker 4: best time of my life because I've never had known

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Speaker 4: it was like that before.

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Speaker 3: In two thousand and that.

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Speaker 4: Was the beginning of two thousand and three.

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Speaker 2: Wow, was there a sense of pride that you're representing

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Speaker 2: your dad as well?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? He was so cute. He actually took me to

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Speaker 4: all my exams, he took me to all my interviews,

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Speaker 4: dropped me off at Hendon. He was so sweet, he

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Speaker 4: was so excited. He was like, oh, I had the

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Speaker 4: best time when I was here, And I was like thinking,

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Speaker 4: I've never stayed away from home for that long before.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, it was excellent. It was just in my

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Speaker 4: head that's what UNI would be like. I mean, the

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Speaker 4: downs were awful, but you don't care because everyone's in

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Speaker 4: the same position, so you don't care. Yeah, the downs

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Speaker 4: were horrendous, but we had a subsidized bar and it

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Speaker 4: was brilliant.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what? That's it?

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Speaker 2: What you need, you need just to drink at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day to get you through.

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Speaker 3: But so Hendon took me through Hendon.

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Speaker 2: It's quite intense, right you go there, you're eighteen weeks,

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Speaker 2: you're living on site, you're ultimately it's a bit like

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Speaker 2: a military process. You're living and breathing to become to

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Speaker 2: become a police officer.

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Speaker 3: What was the training like?

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Speaker 4: It's intense because again I've only done at that point,

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Speaker 4: only done a level was where you just go to

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Speaker 4: your lesson, you're spoken that for a couple of hours

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Speaker 4: and then go home do your homework. But this was

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Speaker 4: intense because you're learning law and you're not learning all

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Speaker 4: of it either, of course, cause eighteen weeks it's not

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Speaker 4: enough time. But that side of it was difficult and

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Speaker 4: I found it really a lot because I really had

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Speaker 4: to study for it. But I made friends there I'm

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Speaker 4: still friends with today, Like they're my best friends. Because

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Speaker 4: you just Gael with a couple of people. They used

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Speaker 4: to call us the three Witches. There was me and

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Speaker 4: two girls and apparently when one of us would laugh,

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Speaker 4: we'd all start tackling and we just we had the

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Speaker 4: best time. Like we had so much banter, like it.

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Speaker 3: Was just three witches.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they people hated I said. To see us coming,

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Speaker 4: I'd be like, oh not memory.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, here we go, do you know what?

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Speaker 2: But that's what it's all about, right, And and for

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Speaker 2: someone like yourself who wants stands the process, that banter

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Speaker 2: is super important. It's almost like an acceptance, you know,

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Speaker 2: into a clan, into a group, into an organization and

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Speaker 2: your you guys were were there to.

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Speaker 3: Obviously uphold law and order? What Bara did?

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Speaker 4: Were you?

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Speaker 3: Were you signed to you?

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Speaker 4: Well, this is another funny thing. So my family are

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Speaker 4: all from Tower Hamlets. I was born in my end

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Speaker 4: and I went to Tower Hamlets, which was a really

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Speaker 4: great idea.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, you're walking around like that. I know you,

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Speaker 3: I know you, I know you. Wow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, if I had a pound for every time I

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Speaker 4: walked into custody and saw someone I knew that was

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Speaker 4: sat there in handcuffs, I would not I could have

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Speaker 4: left the police early. It would have been and.

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Speaker 2: They're like, hey, Danny, how what are you doing here?

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Speaker 3: What are you doing here again? Yeah, don't talk to me,

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Speaker 3: Shy away from me.

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Speaker 4: But it was a good burrough because you've got crazy

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Speaker 4: money in Canary Wharf, like super rich in Canary Wolf,

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Speaker 4: and then you've got other places that I mean, they're

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Speaker 4: up and coming now, but back then you'd have like

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Speaker 4: Shadwell and Stepney that were just really poor. So for

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Speaker 4: policing it was brilliant because you've got to do so

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Speaker 4: much different stuff. I absolutely loved it. I thought it

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Speaker 4: was I loved my job. I was very obsessed with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's very evident onto you know, going on

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Speaker 2: to what you where you decided to take your career

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Speaker 2: within the police force, because there's multiple sort of courses,

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Speaker 2: there's multiple avenues you can go down.

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Speaker 3: Did you know what you wanted to do? I take it.

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Speaker 2: There's a probation period like any other where you have

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Speaker 2: to do a couple of years. You know, Bobby on

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Speaker 2: the beat, which doesn't exist, you know, but you know

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Speaker 2: you have to go out on the streets.

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Speaker 3: Is it a two year process?

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Speaker 2: And then within that two years you sort of decide

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Speaker 2: where you want to go from there.

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Speaker 4: It's supposed to be, yes, it is exactly what's going

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Speaker 4: to happen, but you know it's yeah, it's supposed to

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Speaker 4: be like that. But you know, when there's a demand

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Speaker 4: and they've got someone that can fit that role, it's

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Speaker 4: ways and means act we like to call it. I

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Speaker 4: did just shy of two years before I ended up

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Speaker 4: moving on, but I had no clue where I was

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Speaker 4: going out. I thought I was going to be a

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Speaker 4: you know, a first team. Ever, I never thought i'd

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Speaker 4: leave and go and do anything specially, So I loved it.

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Speaker 4: I loved being out in the cars and running around.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was like the best thing ever. You

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Speaker 4: get a call off Saturday night and on a night

249
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Speaker 4: duty there's like a fire or suspects on. I'm like, oh, go,

250
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Speaker 4: I want to get want to be in the thick

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Speaker 4: of it. I want to get amongst it. And it

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Speaker 4: was evident quite early when I wasn't the person It

253
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Speaker 4: sounds awful, but I was better with the suspects and

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Speaker 4: the victims. I'm not very emotional, I'm not very tactile,

255
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Speaker 4: So for me to be able to put my arm

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Speaker 4: on someone and pat them, it just be really patronizing

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Speaker 4: because it's just not who I am. And I think

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Speaker 4: my my superior saw that quite quickly, and don't let

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Speaker 4: her go to any victims because she's the worst person

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Speaker 4: in the world.

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Speaker 2: You're jumping in an app cars, You're you're going to

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Speaker 2: crime scenes, You're you're you're dealing with people on the streets.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what's around the corner?

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Speaker 2: When I suppose you know, one of your inspectors comes

265
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Speaker 2: up to you and says, ah, we've got a specialist

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Speaker 2: trade for you. You know, do you fancy doing it?

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Speaker 2: Was it as much as the hend and you know

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Speaker 2: you were starting tomorrow? Was it very much like that

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Speaker 2: with the specialist trade? That that was that was put

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Speaker 2: in front of you?

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Speaker 3: Shall we say?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? They didn't word it so nicely. They told me

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Speaker 4: not to come in to work the next day and

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Speaker 4: go straight to New Scotland Yard and wear a suit.

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Speaker 4: And I was so scared.

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Speaker 3: So you're Bobby on the bee. You come back and

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Speaker 3: they say this is what they say to you, don't

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Speaker 3: come in tomorrow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, don't come in tomorrow. You need to be a

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Speaker 4: new Scotland Yard at this time. Make sure you wear

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Speaker 4: a suit.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's all I had.

284
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so come on you, you obviously put on a

285
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Speaker 2: suit you go to New Scotland Yard.

286
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Speaker 3: It was a suit transpire.

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Speaker 4: I bought a really cheap suit from next.

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Speaker 2: We all had this. The next seats don't worry about that.

289
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Speaker 4: You know, the ones with the cheap lining in them,

290
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Speaker 4: so if it's hot, you really sweat. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 4: one of those and I said. I remember saying to

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Speaker 4: my my governor, like any what can you tell me that?

293
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Speaker 4: What's it all about? And he was like if I

294
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Speaker 4: tell you it's too obvious, just go And I was like, amazing,

295
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 4: thanks for that. And then I've got there and I've

296
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Speaker 4: been to the yard before for briefings and stuff like that,

297
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Speaker 4: but I got there, went to this floor, come out

298
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Speaker 4: with lift and it was all closed. It was an

299
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Speaker 4: open plan, which was odd. So I knocked on the

300
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Speaker 4: door and I was met by this lovely Scottish man

301
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Speaker 4: and he said, ah, you must be done here and

302
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Speaker 4: I was like hello. He's like really nice and He

303
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,560
Speaker 4: just said, you obviously don't know why you're here, because

304
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Speaker 4: he could see I was nervous. I said, I have

305
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,880
Speaker 4: no idea, and he took me in and he just

306
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Speaker 4: basically explained what SCD ten was, what they do, how

307
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Speaker 4: it works. And I made such an idiot of myself

308
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 4: because I said, oh, no, it's fine. I've been doing

309
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Speaker 4: undercover work anywhere in my borrow. I've been wearing my

310
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Speaker 4: own clothes and going out and resting people in cars.

311
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Speaker 4: And he was like, that's not how this world works.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, so go back to that

313
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Speaker 2: title you just said, s SCD ten SCD ten, right

314
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Speaker 2: when you come out of that meeting, what what do

315
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:53,440
Speaker 2: you understand about this.

316
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Speaker 4: Role that I'm going to have. Basically, if I passed

317
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Speaker 4: the corpse, have a double life, and even amongst basically

318
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Speaker 4: the worst kinds of people in the UK, I'm going

319
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,680
Speaker 4: to live amongst them, infiltrate them, become their friend, and

320
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,080
Speaker 4: basically manipulate them to give me all the information that

321
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,640
Speaker 4: we need. But undercover, I'm going to be one of

322
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,440
Speaker 4: them and they like me, and we're all going to

323
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Speaker 4: be friends, and I'll be honest. I walked out of

324
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Speaker 4: there and just thought, like Jason Bourne, obviously it's nothing

325
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 4: like that. But when you're young, you don't get it.

326
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Speaker 4: And I remember he said to me, what's your interest?

327
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Speaker 4: What do you like? And I remember thinking, I don't

328
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,880
Speaker 4: really know what you mean. Because everyone in that unit

329
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Speaker 4: has a specialism. So some of them might be mechanics,

330
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Speaker 4: some of them might be foreign speakers, some of them

331
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Speaker 4: are enthusiasts and pros. Obviously I have none of that,

332
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Speaker 4: and I just got thrown into what he or what

333
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,360
Speaker 4: they thought was my specialism, and it turned out it was.

334
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,000
Speaker 4: But you know, I was young. I knew how to party,

335
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 4: and I knew how to go to the clubs. You know,

336
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Speaker 4: he had to China whites on Wednesday faces on a Saturday,

337
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,840
Speaker 4: Like I went to those plays and I never told obviously,

338
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:03,360
Speaker 4: you never told anyone what I did for a job,

339
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,440
Speaker 4: But I went to all these places, so I knew

340
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 4: how that world worked. So that's kind of where I

341
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 4: fell into. So drugs basically became my thing to go

342
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 4: and work on.

343
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Speaker 2: So yeah, you literally thereafter you have to go on

344
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,440
Speaker 2: to a You literally have to build a double life,

345
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:21,080
Speaker 2: don't you.

346
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Speaker 3: You literally have to to.

347
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:30,960
Speaker 2: To forget about your pre existence, and and and lie

348
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 2: to your mind, lie to yourself that you're this other person,

349
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Speaker 2: and it is that's exactly what it is. You know

350
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,520
Speaker 2: you're living a lie. You know you're lying to yourself.

351
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Speaker 2: Therefore you're living a lie. And it's uh, you know,

352
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 2: you're completely manufacturing something. But you have to know that

353
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,040
Speaker 2: people don't understand. You have to know this suitor person

354
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,640
Speaker 2: better than you know yourself. Right. You almost have to

355
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,960
Speaker 2: push yourself aside because this is the new youth from

356
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,920
Speaker 2: every single detail someone tries to get you out. If

357
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,760
Speaker 2: someone gets suspicious that you're you're an undercover, they will

358
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,560
Speaker 2: ask certain questions. You literally have to go so deep

359
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,040
Speaker 2: into this second life that you become it.

360
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true because if you're being yourself, you just

361
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 4: know the answer because you're telling the truth. But when

362
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 4: you've been someone else, you need to. It's constantly on

363
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,880
Speaker 4: your brain, like why am I here? What's my name? Like,

364
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,400
Speaker 4: you know, if you're walking down the street and someone

365
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 4: shouted at Dan, I'd obviously turn around, but if I'm

366
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,360
Speaker 4: really most of the time you do use as close

367
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 4: to your name as possible, but some cases you don't.

368
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,880
Speaker 4: So you know you need to be on just little

369
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 4: stupid things like niances like that or that. Obviously my accent.

370
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,840
Speaker 4: If I'm in Scotland or in the North, what am

371
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 4: I doing out there this accent? He's not local, so

372
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,800
Speaker 4: what am I doing there? So you need answers all

373
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 4: the time. And it's not like you have to sit

374
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,480
Speaker 4: there really off because it's not an interview, but you

375
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,240
Speaker 4: need to be natural with it as well. So but

376
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 4: I think because I was young, I didn't know any different.

377
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,480
Speaker 3: And how hard was that for you? For you to adapt?

378
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,240
Speaker 4: Surprisingly easy. I quite liked it. I felt like it

379
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 4: was quite like active a little bit, and I thought

380
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,560
Speaker 4: it was quite I just I didn't know any different.

381
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,119
Speaker 4: And when I met some of the out former ucs

382
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,960
Speaker 4: or the undercover officers who had done this for years,

383
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 4: they were so cool. In my head, I thought they

384
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,840
Speaker 4: were absolutely like elite and I just wanted to be

385
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,080
Speaker 4: a part of their click. I wanted There was no

386
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,879
Speaker 4: real girly girls in the unit. There was a few girls,

387
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:20,800
Speaker 4: but not many, and they weren't really girly. I was

388
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,879
Speaker 4: really girly, So I always felt a little bit like

389
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,119
Speaker 4: I was never going to get to the click because

390
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:30,000
Speaker 4: I was like the young girly stupid one. But I

391
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,199
Speaker 4: really wanted to be a part of the clique. I

392
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:33,359
Speaker 4: wanted them to say, do you want to go for

393
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 4: a drink later? And I wanted to be invited to

394
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,160
Speaker 4: all these things. You don't get invited to unless you've

395
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 4: made it.

396
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,199
Speaker 3: And it's almost that imposter syndrome, isn't it.

397
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,119
Speaker 2: But ultimately, when you look at that imposter syndrome, you

398
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,800
Speaker 2: you are actually living that boster syndrome because you're being

399
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 2: someone else when you fully qualified for that role, when

400
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,440
Speaker 2: you when you when you passed the course, what was

401
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,560
Speaker 2: your first day at the office as a fully qualified

402
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,560
Speaker 2: imposter let's call it? How did what did that look like?

403
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,679
Speaker 3: And how did it differ from from your from what

404
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:07,479
Speaker 3: you were used to.

405
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:09,880
Speaker 4: Well, I didn't have to wash my hair before work,

406
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,720
Speaker 4: which was great because I wanted to look like I

407
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,560
Speaker 4: was on the streets, so that was great. I didn't

408
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 4: have to put makeup on, which was amazing. I saved

409
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,160
Speaker 4: loads of time. Yeah, but you're conscious about what you're wearing.

410
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,879
Speaker 4: Because my first deployment was actually in green Lanes in Tottenham.

411
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 4: I was used to having my makeup down, my nails,

412
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 4: down my teeth for like everything I've wanted, everything, perfect

413
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 4: eye lashes, but I never did any of it. Everything.

414
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,399
Speaker 4: I went back to basics and I had to dress

415
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 4: to fit in. And I remember I had a pair

416
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,479
Speaker 4: of Nike t ns and I remember doing them up

417
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 4: really tight to the front that sort of curled up

418
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 4: a bit, which is just all I'd never do that,

419
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 4: that's not me. Like I made my clothes smell. They

420
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 4: were like damp, so I washed them, put them in

421
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,480
Speaker 4: a bin bag and let them dry a bit in

422
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 4: the bin bags. And then that musty smell, so you

423
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 4: just stink, You just look disgusting and you smell. And

424
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 4: it was actually to go and establish a supply of crack,

425
00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 4: and I was like, I didn't know at that point

426
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 4: obviously that this wasn't how it worked. Normally you're giving

427
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 4: a bit of a lock on, like a phone number

428
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,080
Speaker 4: or we've got some intelligence to lock us onto someone,

429
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,120
Speaker 4: but we didn't on this one. And they just said,

430
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 4: can you just establish a supply? And I remember thinking,

431
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,520
Speaker 4: I mean Tottenham, I know that there's it's around here,

432
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,879
Speaker 4: like of course it is, it's Green Lanes, know this place,

433
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 4: It's fine, But I didn't have a lock on. And

434
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 4: I remember just going into a bookies like a betting

435
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 4: shop and saying to this man who I believe might

436
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,160
Speaker 4: also have the same interest as me, if he knew

437
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 4: anyone my normal boy's not about and if you've got

438
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 4: a number, and he said, I'll take you, but you've

439
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 4: got to chip me off. And I didn't know what

440
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 4: that meant, but I said yes, And basically he wanted

441
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:38,359
Speaker 4: me to. He was going to take me to a

442
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 4: dealer and he was going to take some of the

443
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 4: product and for himself, but.

444
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,200
Speaker 3: To give you a bit. Yeah.

445
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 4: But like if that had happened like two years later,

446
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 4: I'd have been like, absolutely not, you're not having that,

447
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,880
Speaker 4: because he really took quite a bit and I would

448
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 4: have a kick off. And it actually was a bit

449
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 4: of a disaster that job, because he took me to

450
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 4: the house and the dealer was really happy to service.

451
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,640
Speaker 4: I said bye to my friend from the betting office

452
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 4: and I started walking. I was so happy I've got

453
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 4: it in my pocket. I'm like, yes, my adrenaline, he's

454
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,680
Speaker 4: through the roof. I'm so excited I've not failed, because

455
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 4: I would hate to fail. You know, you don't want

456
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:15,919
Speaker 4: to go back and say I couldn't do it because

457
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 4: especially your first job, like no way. But the dealer

458
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,159
Speaker 4: decided he took a shining to me and followed me,

459
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 4: and I was like, amazing, this is really going well.

460
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,920
Speaker 4: And I remember he asked where it was again, I'm

461
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 4: always going to rob it back because that happens all

462
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 4: the time. So I told him I put it somewhere else.

463
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 4: Let you go. I guess where I told you was?

464
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 4: It was a It was in my pocket. And I mean,

465
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 4: you'll know, you'll know Tottenham and Green Lanes if you

466
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:43,680
Speaker 4: look at it from the birds I view, it's like

467
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,400
Speaker 4: a ladder, so there's loads and loads of alleyways. They

468
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 4: call it the ladder, so there's lots of opportunity to

469
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 4: be pulled, dragged and things to go on out of you.

470
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 4: And he decided to drag me down the alley and

471
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 4: tell me what he would like me to do to him.

472
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 4: And my heart was just pounding because I'm thinking, I

473
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 4: don't know what to do, Like I really don't know

474
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 4: what to do. I can't scream who I really am,

475
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 4: because why would I do that. That's just going to

476
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 4: blow everything. I'm never gonna get it again. Yeah, but

477
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna lie. I was scared. I was really scared.

478
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 4: I've gone from adrenaline, super happy to really scared be

479
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,400
Speaker 4: in about three minutes. So my heart was just pounding

480
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 4: at my chest and he's pulling my head and he's

481
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 4: I'm doing his trousers and I'm thinking, this is it?

482
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,640
Speaker 4: What am I going to do? And the only thing

483
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 4: I laugh about it now, but at the time I

484
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 4: was deadly serious. The only thing I could think I

485
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 4: was buy it and run because I could see the

486
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 4: end of the alleyway. But if I tried to push

487
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 4: him and run, He's going to outrun me for sure.

488
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 4: He was way bigger than me. So all this like

489
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 4: I was doing all this risk assessment in my head

490
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 4: without realizing I was doing a risk assessment. It's only

491
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 4: after I'm like, I've thought about him, thought actually that

492
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 4: was really bad, and I'm thinking just literally and leg

493
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 4: it because he's that then I will have an opportunity

494
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,360
Speaker 4: to run because he's going to be on the floor

495
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 4: for a sec. But with that screeched off at the

496
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 4: end of the alleyway like a builder's type van, and

497
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 4: this guy's got out and he's calling me all sorts

498
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 4: of names and not I won't repeat them because they're

499
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 4: not suitable. But he was calling me names, and I

500
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 4: just remember looking at it and thinking, I recognize you,

501
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 4: but I don't know why. And he'd been in my briefing,

502
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 4: so before i'd been deployed. We have like a briefing,

503
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 4: and he'd been in the briefing. But I've obviously just

504
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 4: scanned the room and I've obviously noted it but not

505
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 4: really taken much notice m And he's like you, how

506
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 4: dare you? You always do this to me? And the

507
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 4: dealer was saying she asked for it, man like she

508
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 4: wanted it, bro like it was all her And I'm like, no,

509
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 4: like I'm not cried, but I want to cry. I'm like,

510
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't like that. I'm sorry, and I'm

511
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 4: going along with what this guy from the van saying

512
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 4: and I'm not. I'm still not really sure what's happening.

513
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 4: So anyway, I've gone in the van with this guy

514
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 4: and he said, are you're right? And I said yeah,

515
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 4: but who are you? Like, how did you know I

516
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 4: was there? Because you're on your own, you don't have

517
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 4: a team on you. I said, how did you know

518
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 4: I was there? And he said, you've got a two

519
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 4: way phone in your pocket. Obviously had like a dirt

520
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 4: called a dirty phone in my pocket, but I didn't.

521
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 4: They didn't tell me. They could hear everything that was

522
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,479
Speaker 4: going on. It's a two ways so they could hear

523
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 4: constantly because it's my first employment. Maybe it was their

524
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 4: little safety blanket. But didn't want scary until we like,

525
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 4: by the way, we're popping this in your pocket so

526
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 4: they could heal the melee and knew where I was

527
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 4: and they come and got me. But it was tear

528
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: medals when we got back.

529
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 2: So you had you had the top cover there, but

530
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 2: you just didn't know about it.

531
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 4: No, I had no idea.

532
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 2: And I suppose that keeps you, That keeps you sort

533
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,239
Speaker 2: of innocent, That keeps you, you know, rather than you know,

534
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 2: probably saying keywords that you that you if you know

535
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 2: you've got a phone on you, that that would give

536
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 2: away the game. It's just it's does these subtle hints, yeah,

537
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 2: that you know, especially these criminals are so so knowledgeable now,

538
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 2: they're so sophisticated. They can spot spot people from a

539
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 2: mile off. And I suppose it stopped you from from

540
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 2: really sort of you know, panicking and knowing that you've

541
00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 2: got back up.

542
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 3: Exactly.

543
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: So that was your that was your first job. Once

544
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 2: you got into the van and you you you went back,

545
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: did you did? Was it a not question? Did not

546
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 2: raise questions in your head to think is this the

547
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 2: job for me? Or was that just a no?

548
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 3: No, no no. I've got top cover behind me.

549
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 2: You know, I've succeeded in this first sort of mission,

550
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: this first task.

551
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 3: And listen, let let's go again.

552
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 4: When I was in van, I was thinking what am

553
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 4: I doing? But when I got back and everyone's like,

554
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 4: oh my god, that was amazing, that was brilliant. You

555
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 4: really held it all together, and you're getting told by

556
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 4: the people that you're looking up to how great it was.

557
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, I playing trying to be all cool,

558
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 4: but really, inside, what have I just done? I really

559
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 4: didn't want to let them know that I was nervous

560
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 4: because I didn't like them to think I was weak,

561
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 4: which is ridiculous, like you're weak, you're week No, of course,

562
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 4: at the time, I didn't want to be weak.

563
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 2: When did it start to go on to the more

564
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,479
Speaker 2: sort of CD stuff. You know, were you assigned just

565
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: for for the drugs in a specific time scale, and

566
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 2: then did you go on to the more called it

567
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: hardcore stuff or was it just different different missions at

568
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: a time. One could be a drug one, one could

569
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 2: be a pedophile, one could be a sex offender or

570
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: how how did that work?

571
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 4: So some days I'd have more than one job, one

572
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 4: more than one deployment, which was wild. But you don't

573
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 4: get the good, the good good jobs like pubs, clubs, festivals.

574
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 4: You don't get those jobs until you've proven yourself with

575
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 4: the horrible jobs. So you're like the one the CD jobs,

576
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 4: So you have to kind of you have to do

577
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 4: loads of the horrible what we classes horrible jobs before

578
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 4: they will deploy you into a pub. I mean, anyone

579
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 4: can go into a pub and score. It's like it's easy,

580
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 4: isn't it. I'd much rather dressed like that than like

581
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 4: some of the ways I was stressing. And then for

582
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 4: the decoys stuff, I did loads of decoy work, but

583
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 4: decoys rarely work. I think there's an hour in the

584
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 4: UK there's now only five successful operations for decoys. But

585
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 4: my successful decay job. When I say this, that allowed

586
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 4: it just sounds ridiculous. But we had a predator. There

587
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 4: was like over one hundred and twenty one victims of

588
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 4: this predator. He was started with a bit of upskirting,

589
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 4: bit of overclothing touching, and it was all school goals.

590
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 4: And they said to me, now this is where the

591
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 4: banter comes in. And people are like, what is wrong

592
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 4: with you? But you have to be in through it.

593
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 4: When I got this phone call from my handler and

594
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 4: he said I've got this job for you and it's

595
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 4: perfect and he was laughing, I knew there was something

596
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 4: not quite right with it. So I went to the

597
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 4: briefing and they said, we've got your You don't need

598
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 4: to bring any kit. We've got the kit here for you.

599
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, brilliant, amazing, because sometimes you would

600
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 4: get that. Sometimes you might get a nice new coat

601
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 4: to wear, or if it's somewhere high end in the West End,

602
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 4: they'd get you a nice outfit. But I've walked into

603
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 4: this room and it was on a TSG base like

604
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 4: the Riot Riot Police Tactical Support root base, which is

605
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,719
Speaker 4: never a good thing. That's never good walking in there

606
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 4: as a UC because you know, but something really going

607
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 4: to go down it. And they pulled that school uniform

608
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 4: and said that's your kid, go and put it on

609
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 4: and I was just like, I'm not putting on a

610
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 4: school uniform walking back in this room with this lot,

611
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 4: and they were like, yes, you will, and.

612
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 3: I was like, no, it's your job getting on.

613
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,239
Speaker 4: Yeah. So I went and put it on, and I

614
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 4: was just like I was really skinny then, like really young,

615
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 4: really skinny, and I was just putting on this school

616
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 4: uniform and I felt such an idiot.

617
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 2: So so Danny just just just jumping back into that

618
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 2: and jumping into your mindset, jumping into your headspace.

619
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 3: You know you're going to be on this job for

620
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 3: a while. You're you know you're you're undercover.

621
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 2: Yes, you're after a predator. You know you in your

622
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 2: head are you thinking, you know we got to put

623
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 2: it in an end to this? You know more, more

624
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 2: people are going to suffer. You know you're ultimately you're

625
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: serving the people, right, But but do you get into

626
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 2: a sense of character. You know, it's not just in case.

627
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 2: You're putting it on once and away you go. You know,

628
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: you're you're you're donning this school uniform every single day.

629
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: You know a year, you're jumping into into a different character.

630
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 2: You've got to act like a young naive probably drunken

631
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: school girl, whatever it may be.

632
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 3: How hard is that does and does it engulf your

633
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 3: whole life?

634
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: You know, people go leave, leave your work at work,

635
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: and you know, but it's very, very hard to do

636
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: that with something like this because you know, you're living

637
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: and breathing it, living and breathing it until it becomes

638
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: the norm. Because when it does become the norm, that's

639
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: when you know, that's when it works. How how what's

640
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: going through your head and or you just running with it?

641
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: Are you just you're just rolling with it?

642
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really funny you say that, because at the time,

643
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 4: I'll be honest, I was just rolling with it my head.

644
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 4: I was like, I work, of course you want to

645
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 4: catch them. I'm super competitive. I don't like losing, so

646
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 4: of course you don't want them to be smarter than you.

647
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 4: You want to get them. And there've been so much

648
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 4: more of this operation before it got to this point.

649
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 4: You know, they've done surveillance and lots of staff, but

650
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 4: they just couldn't get him. They had one grainy picture

651
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 4: of this guy. He was super CCTV aware, so I

652
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 4: was obviously keen to get him. But what I will

653
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 4: say is deeper jobs are very few and far between

654
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 4: with a good success, Like they're not very successful. So

655
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 4: I'll be honest and say I wasn't convinced we wouldn't

656
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 4: necessarily get him. So you just, yeah, you're running kind

657
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 4: of and it's horrible because it's kids, and you have

658
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 4: to like it's just it's just not acceptable. So you're like,

659
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 4: you do want to get him, but it wasn't. We

660
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 4: did it for two weeks and it wasn't, which is

661
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 4: a very short deployment.

662
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 2: But every day you're getting dressed in the same school uniform.

663
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: Was your routine, Like you're hanging around bus stops at

664
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: peak school times, I take it, and you're having to

665
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 2: blend in and probably people have never seen you before.

666
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: Who the hell are you? And you know, yeah, school kids.

667
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 4: The girls it was an all girls school, and they

668
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 4: were like I'm there in the same uniform as them

669
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 4: when they're getting on the bus, like you're not coming

670
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 4: on the bus. I'm like, I'm not going in there.

671
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 4: I'm not going today, and they just as a bit of

672
00:29:58,080 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 4: a rebel and I was just going to like not

673
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 4: I was the new girl and I'm just not going

674
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 4: to school and I've been put there by my parents

675
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 4: because I'm naughty. Without going into extreme detail with you,

676
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 4: but on that particular job, we did have a team

677
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 4: because of course he could strike at any point. We

678
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 4: did have a team, so there was a surveillance team

679
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 4: around so if he did attack, they would get him quick.

680
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 4: But to this day, that was probably my best job,

681
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 4: even though it was like not as exciting as some

682
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 4: of the others, because some of the others, you know,

683
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 4: it's really intense when you're infiltrating an arm robbery gang.

684
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 4: That's intense. That's really big work. And this wasn't long

685
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 4: and big work, but the impact it had after and

686
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 4: now I've left, I've left that bubble. When I look

687
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 4: back at it, I'm really glad I did that, and

688
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 4: I'm glad it was me that did that. So the

689
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 4: last day of the job, this is really weird as well.

690
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 4: And you like what you said about mentally, like you

691
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 4: know things in your gut and your head. I don't

692
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 4: know why. The phone rang, my dirty phone rang, and

693
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 4: it was my senior investigating officer, and she said, end exercise,

694
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 4: go back to your safety location. And I was like, okay,

695
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 4: for some reason, I don't I can't tell you why

696
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 4: I started walking and I turned round and there was

697
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 4: this guy and he was peering around the corner of

698
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 4: like the it's like a corner of the house, but

699
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 4: it was like a bush and a bit of a wall.

700
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 4: But I'd seen him. I kept walking and before I

701
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 4: could even get myself together, I think, actually that might

702
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 4: have been something because in the grainy CCTV he was similar,

703
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 4: same address. But before I could even get my thoughts together,

704
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 4: I could it behind me and he just grabbed me

705
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 4: around the throat, put me on the floor, done what

706
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 4: you wanted to do, which felt like it lasted for

707
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 4: like ever, but it wasn't. It was literally less than

708
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 4: a minute because the team obviously saw it and they

709
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 4: got him, which was great because it was me and

710
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 4: not another So.

711
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: What do you mean? So he grabs you around the throat?

712
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: So you hear these footsteps and you've been told to

713
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 2: endex so this is like index you know, listen, mission

714
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: didn't work. So he's grabbed you from the back, pulled

715
00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: you what pulled?

716
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 3: Pinned you to the grad.

717
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm on the floor. He's getting himself to a

718
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 4: position where he wants to be, you know what I mean? Ah,

719
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 4: But again, like again, It's good it's me because I

720
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 4: know that I'm putting myself in that position, and I'm

721
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 4: an adult and i know what I'm doing and I

722
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 4: can I can deal with it. So I'm glad it

723
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 4: was me and not one of the girls, because that's

724
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 4: it just ruined their life. It's just awful. And some

725
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 4: of the girls mum's actually wrote me letters after and

726
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,719
Speaker 4: that's what I think. It's my best job because you

727
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: see what your work has impacted someone. And one of

728
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 4: the moms said that her daughter had actually been a

729
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 4: repeat victim, so he'd got a twice, not that he

730
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 4: knew it was the same girl because he just saw

731
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 4: the uniform. And she said in the letter that she

732
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 4: you know, her daughter can now sleep at night, she's

733
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 4: not weting the bed. And as a parent, I'm like,

734
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 4: oh yeah, but I'm glad.

735
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 3: It was me.

736
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: And you can almost put aside all of all of

737
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: the fucking seediness, all of the vileness aside, knowing that

738
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: you've you know that you've pared for this, You put

739
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: your yourself in the fire in line to protect these

740
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: young girls. Is that is that how you is that

741
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: how you deal with it? Is that how you how

742
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 2: you move on with something like that, because that's some serious,

743
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: you know, headspace to fucking try and try and deal with.

744
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, I think I just look at it as

745
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 4: a as a positive. I've done a good job. And

746
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 4: it sounds cheesy, doesn't it, But ultimately it doesn't.

747
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: It doesn't.

748
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 4: You signed up to a discipline service to serve your country.

749
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 4: You're serving the queen. We're there king now with the Queen.

750
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 4: So you can't all of a sudden say, oh no,

751
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 4: actually I don't want to do that anymore. Like that's

752
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,479
Speaker 4: your You've taken on that job. You know what you're

753
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 4: signing up for.

754
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: I love that because you know, that's that's what the

755
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 2: same wor when I signed up is like, you know,

756
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: I was expecting to go to combat. I was expecting to,

757
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: you know, to lose comrades. I was expecting to potentially

758
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 2: lose my life. And it's like, you know, you you're

759
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: putting your your ultimately putting your life on the line.

760
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: You're sacrificing the the ultimate which is you know, which

761
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 2: is yourself to get a job done. And I find

762
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: that very commendable of you because it's exactly how it

763
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: should be. You know, you know exactly what you've got

764
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 2: involved with. You know, yeah, okay things might you know

765
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 2: what happened to you as a horrendous and you know

766
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: what what you know, but you just don't know, right,

767
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: That's why you do that line that line of work

768
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: was it was it quite easy for you just to

769
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 2: brush that off and go on to the next job.

770
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 4: Yes, but again down to the because of the banter

771
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 4: of my colleagues. So when we went back, for example,

772
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 4: after we went back, they need to get the uniform

773
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 4: obviously because it's evidence. But they're all laughing. You can

774
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 4: imagine the banks. Imagine they're like, you've got the money shot.

775
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 4: They've obviously viewed the footage. You've got the money shot.

776
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 4: I'm like, of course she did. And then after this

777
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 4: is a bit twisted, but not twisted because I'm glad

778
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 4: they did it, because otherwise you could put yourself in

779
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 4: a hole, couldn't you. They once you went through call

780
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 4: and they gave all the evidence back to the police

781
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 4: and it only gets destroyed. But on this occasion they

782
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 4: decided to dry a click in the school uniform and

783
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 4: give it to me as a trophy, which.

784
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 2: Is just like, this is I get it because of

785
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: the I think the banter is it's almost like a yeah,

786
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 2: it's like a medal, isn't it.

787
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 3: It's like and you know, people will go, what the

788
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 3: hell are you want about?

789
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 2: But unless you've been there and put yourself in those

790
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: situations and understand that the dark humor, the dark banter

791
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: actually gets you through these situations. You know, if you

792
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 2: were just to sit there and go, oh my god,

793
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: that was terrible, were you okay? And almost pampering to

794
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: to something that that you know that is there but

795
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 2: you know is in the background, and then it brings

796
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 2: it to the forefront, and then you know you're creating

797
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 2: a problem.

798
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 3: How important is it and how did it help you through?

799
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 2: You know, this, this this dark banter or this dark humor.

800
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 4: I just don't I think you don't give it enough time.

801
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 4: You're in a bubble. You're in this bubble, so it's

802
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 4: only after you leave you think about it. You go, well, actually,

803
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 4: that was a bit much that or I would do

804
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 4: that now. And there's loads of I say that, And

805
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 4: as a mother of a daughter who is the age

806
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 4: I was when I was doing that stuff, there's no

807
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 4: way she's doing any of that stuff in a million

808
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 4: years I think you just get on with it, don't you.

809
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 4: You're like, it's your job, you just get on with it.

810
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 4: And I am really pro police, and I will say

811
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 4: I am pro. Yes, the metsicine a complete mess at

812
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 4: the minute, but I think that it was different then

813
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 4: to what it is now. It was just different. You know,

814
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 4: we could banter and no one would be offended with anything.

815
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 4: Like I didn't care what people said to me. I'd

816
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 4: give it back and if I was upset, that's my

817
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 4: be on me, because this is not the industry to like.

818
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 2: You said, you know, the crime is different, you know

819
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 2: the substance use is different. You know, the people are different.

820
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,479
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's a it's in a huge mess,

821
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 2: which which we both know. And why did you decide

822
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: to leave? You know, you serve ten years and what

823
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: was your mindset on leaving the force.

824
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 4: I think it was more I grew up a bit

825
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 4: and I you know, I couldn't do this forever. I

826
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 4: was running around every day doing living another life, which

827
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 4: was fantastic and it did help me a lot, but

828
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 4: I also had a real life when I had kids,

829
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,959
Speaker 4: and kids, you know, they take up a lot of time,

830
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 4: and I was getting to the point where I was

831
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 4: putting myself in these really dangerous positions where I could

832
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 4: get really hurt, and what's going to happen with my kids.

833
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 4: I went from a really messy divorce, like a really

834
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 4: messy divorce, so that also wasn't, you know, the best period.

835
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 4: So that happened to me that my kids then just

836
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 4: go and live with their dad, like what happens here?

837
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 4: Like this is a really difficult position. And I didn't

838
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 4: just leave. I took a career break. I thought, I'm

839
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 4: just going to take a little bit of a career

840
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 4: break and then I'll come back. And I was getting

841
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 4: phone calls every day say you know you're coming back?

842
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 4: Here are you coming back? We need you back. There's

843
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 4: no one else can do what you're doing. Can you

844
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 4: come back? And in the end, I just I was

845
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 4: being mum and it sounds awful, but I was being

846
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 4: full time mom, which freaked me out because I'm not

847
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 4: a school mum. You know, I'm not one of those

848
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 4: mums that hang around the playground. I'm just not That's

849
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 4: just not for me. And if they talk to me,

850
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh god, I don't talk to me because

851
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 4: I haven't got to talk with this, we'll get to

852
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 4: work and there's nothing wrong with that. It just wasn't

853
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 4: for me. Yeah, of course I found that. Really I

854
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 4: just wasn't that lady. And then an opportunity to come

855
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 4: to move to France, so I took the kids. We

856
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 4: moved to France. We put the kids in French school,

857
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 4: which was the best thing we ever did, because our

858
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 4: kids speak for it and read right to speak French.

859
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 4: Our daughters. She's the smartest stupid person I've ever met.

860
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 4: She's got no common sense, but she can speak, read,

861
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 4: and write three languages. And as a brick that's really impressive,

862
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 4: isn't it.

863
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: An't You've gone from a sort of a specialist organization

864
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 2: to uh.

865
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 3: To the media world. How how did the media world?

866
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 3: You know a good old Channel four.

867
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 2: Because I think Hunted came just after say who Dares Wins?

868
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 2: So we were that's why, that's why we know. We

869
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 2: were floating around in the same sort of building and

870
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 2: you know, a crossing paths and you know.

871
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 3: This is why I've got you on the podcast. But

872
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 3: how did that find?

873
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 4: You should never have found me. It was a friend

874
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 4: of a friend had said, oh I've got this job,

875
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 4: and she worded it in a way that they made

876
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 4: out that they were saying that someone was missing and

877
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 4: they needed my assistance. And I was like, absolutely, no problem.

878
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 4: It was a Tuesday and god, it's so embarrassing. I

879
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 4: had lever trousers on a blow dry because I was

880
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 4: going out in the West End on that Tuesday night.

881
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 4: And the way she's working was just a meeting. Yeah,

882
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 4: I thought I was real essex, Like that was my

883
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 4: essex moment. And I said, all right, it's just a

884
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 4: quick meeting. I'm going out. I've got to the building

885
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 4: and it was Shine Offices in Camden and I was like,

886
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 4: what is going on? And this lovely lady, she's like,

887
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 4: you obviously clearly don't know what you're doing. And I

888
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 4: was like, I have no idea, and she said, you're

889
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 4: here for a casting and audition. I said for what

890
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 4: she explained, hunted it was meant to be at the time,

891
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 4: it was only supposed to be a pilot and a

892
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 4: bit of a social experiment, and I said absolutely not.

893
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 4: You know, I've lived my entire life under the radar.

894
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 4: I've never ever.

895
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 3: Put in the shadow by myself.

896
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, And then I said, there's no way I'm now

897
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 4: going to put my face on TV. And she played

898
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 4: me in my own game and manipulated me a little bit,

899
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 4: and she said, look, let's just see one piece of camera.

900
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 4: But in my head something clicked and I just thought, oh,

901
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 4: it's just one piece of camera and just pretend you're

902
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 4: one of the other people that used to be and

903
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 4: then I just did this piece to camera and that

904
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 4: was it. In the back that we did like ten

905
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 4: seasons of it and celebrity season, so that it's Yeah.

906
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: Do you know what the same with us says has

907
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 2: been going on for now ten years. Obviously we've we've

908
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 2: bounced over or I've bounced over with Olie to SAS

909
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 2: Australia and now you know we I am now bringing

910
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 2: out my own format in the UAE in Dubai, which

911
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 2: is obviously got the S A S DNA, but an

912
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 2: evolved format and an evolved media format which I'm going

913
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: to be pushing out in the UAE in the wider

914
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 2: GCC regions. So yeah, it's exciting stuff. So this is

915
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: where you met Ben as well you met your your husband.

916
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 3: Now before you know, before we.

917
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 2: Wrap up, tell me about I like Ben, I've gotten

918
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: well with Ben we touch base.

919
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 3: So was it love at first sight?

920
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 4: This is terrible. Apparently he've written you on the spot now, yeah,

921
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 4: this is And you're going to laugh when I tell

922
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 4: you this story because you'll be like, was I there?

923
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 4: You were actually there?

924
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 3: It was a fronts yea, was it? Come on? Tell me,

925
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 3: tell me tell me.

926
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 4: Well, apparently he remembers seeing me at work, obviously, but

927
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 4: I just thought he was just the guy in HQ.

928
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 4: Didn't think much of it. It's work whatever. I'm there

929
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 4: to do a job, obviously getting you as you know,

930
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 4: when you once you get into the Channel four, they

931
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 4: smoose you and they put you all these fancy parties

932
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 4: and you're out of your comfors over loving life. So me,

933
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 4: Ben Nick and Blex we were the four that always

934
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 4: got picked to do all the media stuff, which I

935
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 4: don't know why asked for but us for so us

936
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 4: were kind of put together a lot. And then we

937
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 4: went to the Upfront, which obviously we'd never been to

938
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 4: a party like that before, so we thought he was

939
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 4: the best thing we've ever seen. They got shy effects

940
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 4: playing live and like everything's free, so you know, like

941
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 4: ex military and explain it if it's free. You're like, wow,

942
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 4: it's free, Yes, free things. And then as I went

943
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 4: to say goodbye to him, he kissed me and I

944
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,439
Speaker 4: was like, why did you do that? And then he said,

945
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 4: what why did you do that? Now you made it

946
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 4: awkward and weird. And that was it. We've been together.

947
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 4: We got married last week.

948
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 3: Congratulation. Do you know what? I love that? Love that. Yes,

949
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 3: we've got a wedding on head Game. Yeah.

950
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 2: But you know what, he's a great guy, a great series,

951
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 2: great fun is you know, and also it leads to

952
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: other opportunities. And what I love about it, and you

953
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 2: mentioned it there. What I love about my decision to

954
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: do it, to go from living in the in the

955
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 2: shadows to the limelight, is it's just exposed a different

956
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 2: part of me.

957
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 3: It's exposed a different you know.

958
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: It's like we could so easily just filter back into

959
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: the background, live under these rocks, and you know, for

960
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 2: me go around at Africa doing a security circuit and

961
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 2: doing what I need to do, you know, a bit

962
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 2: of mercenary work whatever whatever it may be. But to

963
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 2: take that step and that leap of faith into into

964
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: what we've done, I can I know what it's like

965
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 2: I know how hard it is, I know what it takes.

966
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: You know you're so I can only say well done

967
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: to you, Danny.

968
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 3: What's next for you?

969
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 4: So? Ben and I own a cybersecurity company nice, which

970
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 4: is great. I still can't. I still keep my toe

971
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 4: in here and again you're in there, but I just

972
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 4: we've literally moved out. So Ben and I have a

973
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 4: quite a similar background, We've both done similar work, and

974
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 4: we've just basically moved it all to digital. We've literally

975
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 4: taken what we used to do physically to online. We

976
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 4: teach open source intelligence, we do a lot of digital

977
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 4: vulnerability for lots of different variety of people. And you know,

978
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 4: the business is going from strength to strength. We're really

979
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 4: we're putting everything into it. We love it, we're really

980
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 4: excited about it. And I literally lived by the motto

981
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 4: of no risk, no story, because that's literally how my

982
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 4: life is. And I say yes to everything. So why

983
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 4: did I say yes to that?

984
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: Wow?

985
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 3: But you say yes, no story? I love that? Do

986
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 3: you know what?

987
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,479
Speaker 2: And I say, there's no growth in comfort, but no risk,

988
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,959
Speaker 2: no story. Absolutely right. And talking about stories, You've written

989
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 2: a book as well.

990
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 4: Haven't you, yes, which is again mental you know I

991
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 4: did a levels, but I didn't think I'd ever be

992
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 4: an author, let alone an award with an author. Does

993
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 4: that even happen?

994
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 2: Do you know what, Danny, You and me have followed

995
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 2: the same career. Really, we've just you know, I've been

996
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 2: in the military, You've been in the police. We've both

997
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 2: jumped out. You've gone to hunting, I've gone to sa

998
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: I've written loads of books. You've written loads of books.

999
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 2: Where can we get your book?

1000
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,959
Speaker 4: And well, there's two. I'll say the second version is better.

1001
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 4: There's too one of the first ones called Go for

1002
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 4: the Job, and the second one's Undercover Copper Amazon. Of

1003
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 4: course all the best bookstores are selling it, and the

1004
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 4: ones that aren't selling it, of course they're missing out.

1005
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 4: It's really cool. And there's more happening with the book

1006
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 4: in the background, which is really exciting. I think it's

1007
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 4: allowed to be said. But the basically the book's been

1008
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 4: made into a drama, which is really.

1009
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 2: Yes, that is awesome, that's what you want. Listen your

1010
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 2: smashing life. It's really really good to see Danny. But Danny,

1011
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 2: thank you so much. Your story will inspire others phenomenally.

1012
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 2: It's been a great conversation loved having you on, I

1013
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 2: loved having a fellow over it on there on with me,

1014
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: and I wish you all the best for the future.

1015
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 4: Thanks, thank you.

1016
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 2: For more stories from Danny's life undercover, check out How

1017
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 2: Book The Girl for the Job.

1018
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 3: It's out now.

1019
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 2: You can also follow Danny on Instagram. I'll put the

1020
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 2: details in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's episode,

1021
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 2: please share with a friend or leave me a review.

1022
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 3: I'm at Middleton. Catch you on the next episode.