WEBVTT - #1993 Alzheimer's: Could There Be A Cure? - Dr. Bill Sullivan 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.520 Okat a team. It's it's the project. Doctor. 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.920 Bill has been away. He's been surfing. He's been No, 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.119 he hasn't. I don't know where he's been, but he's 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.440 been trying to avoid me, let's be honest, and somehow 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:15.560 I secured him back on the show for. 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:17.759 You, and he's doing it for you, not me. So 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:19.600 welcome back, man. Where you been? 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.360 Hey, it's great to be back. I'm glad that you 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:28.320 didn't get to you know, bored without me. Well, you 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.680 have just been trying to absorb some family time this 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.480 summer and I had a few conferences doing some traveling, 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:36.879 so it was a little tough to get our schedules 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:41.240 to aligne. But it's fantastic to be welcomed back, and 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.360 I hope to do a couple more shows before the 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:43.960 end of the year. 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:45.159 Yeah, let's do that. 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:48.920 What's your favorite thing to do when you're not being productive, 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.960 when you're being unproductive, when you don't care about crossing 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.880 the t's, dotting the eyes or ticking the boxes, what's 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.280 your favorite thing to do in terms of just chilling 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:57.760 out for you? 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:01.160 I guess I would have to say something like just 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.800 going to the beach where there is a bar right 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.440 next to the shore, just grab a cold one and 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:09.800 stare out into the sea. 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.559 And think about what is Are you on any level 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:19.960 philosophical or like we all know you very logical, rational, scientific, 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:21.720 But is there a part of you that's just like, 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:23.160 what's it all about? 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:25.959 Well, it depends how many beers I have. 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.120 As a correlation, as one goes up, the other goes up. 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:36.679 That's exactly right. But yeah, for the sake of argument, yeah, 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:38.759 you do start to think about some of those things. 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.200 But basically what I try to do when I'm in 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:45.160 that environment is keep my mind clear. Yeah, you know, 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:48.240 like most people, my default brain just runs in all 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:50.760 sorts of different directions all the time, and that gets 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.720 a little exhausting. So it's nice just to be able 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:58.000 to make yourself aware of the present moment, the beauty 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.680 of your surroundings, you know, the piece, and and just 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.200 kind of be in the present as they say, be 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:05.600 here now kind of thing. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.240 I love that there's a difference between busy, chaos and 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:16.560 busy okay, because sometimes busy is stressful, anxiety producing, unenjoyable, 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:20.760 and sometimes busy is like creative and fun, right sure. 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.480 Sure, And I think John Lennon had a great quote like, 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.840 you know, life is what happens, you know, while you're 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.800 making all these plans. Yeah, so it's really nice to 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.440 step back from all of the I got to do this, 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:34.560 I got to do that, I'm worrying about this, and 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.639 just actually experience your existence. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:40.399 Yes, so true. 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:44.639 It's like life happens despite me, Like life was here 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:46.560 before me. Life's going to be here. It depends how 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:51.160 we're defining life, I guess. But the human experience of life, 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:52.960 it's like it ain't going anywhere. 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:54.200 You know, we'll come and go. 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:58.880 But do you get with your and I know we're 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:00.560 going to have a particular chat this is not it, 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:01.280 but we'll get there. 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:03.400 Do you with your workload. 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:08.240 And your responsibilities, do you get particularly stressed or are 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.920 you not really that personality top. 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.440 Well, I think, as most of your audience knows, I'm 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:19.560 a scientist, so that can be a very stressful job 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.399 because you always need to acquire funding to support your 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.840 science and the team that is doing the work in 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:30.160 the lab. But I can't imagine doing anything else, Craig. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.080 I mean, it's like being an explorer. It's like being 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:38.120 paid to solve mysteries. And puzzles, and it's a job 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.880 where no two days are the same. And you know, 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:45.280 monotony does not exist in my line of work because 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.119 we are at the edge of human knowledge and we're 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:54.360 trying to push that frontier forward. And there's no greater 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:58.440 task I can think of to do on a daily basis, 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:02.960 except maybe being a podcast aster like you that would 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:07.680 have such rewards. You know, because even though I'm getting 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:12.080 a kick out of, you know, exploring the unknown, I 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.680 work in biomedicine, so the things that we discover could 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:20.360 potentially down the road sometime lead to some very significant 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:25.760 and clinically relevant therapeutic that's going to help people. And 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:27.679 you know, if that doesn't get you out of bed 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.400 every morning, yes, I don't know what will. 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:36.839 Has there been anything significant over your research journey, your 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:42.599 creative investigating, your curiosity, or your curious career that you've 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:45.200 done a total one ID on something that you went, No, 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.360 this is true, this is this is how it works, 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.680 and then maybe a decade later, you went, doesn't really 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:52.200 work like that. 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.520 I just thought it did. Oh. 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:59.719 I think that's kind of the that's science in a nutshell. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:01.800 I mean, it's like all these great things we do 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:06.200 discover you. With continued research, we find either nuances to it, 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.920 or sometimes we totally turn the idea on its head. 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.560 In my own field as a parasitologist working on this 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:19.880 brain parasite toxoplasma GANDHII, the overriding themes when I was 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.760 a young graduate student was that this was a fairly 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.200 benign parasite. Yeah, it gets in the brain, but it 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.960 doesn't seem to be doing anything as long as you're healthy. 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.320 It becomes a significant problem only when you're immune compromised, 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.920 and in that case it can potentially kill you. So 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.440 that was the dogma when I was in graduate school. 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:44.080 But as of maybe ten fifteen years ago, new studies 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:47.200 are coming out suggesting that even in healthy people, this 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:51.120 brain parasite is maybe not benign, and it could be 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:57.200 causing predisposition to schizophrenia or other neuropsychoses. And that was 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:01.400 something we really didn't appreciate when I was learning about 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:04.400 this parasite in the beginning. So all sorts of I mean, 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.880 that's not like turning something on its head, per se, 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.159 but it's learning something brand new that no one really 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.440 gave a second thought to, and that's really exciting for 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:17.000 me and my laboratory got engaged in some of those 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.719 studies to show that the neuroinflammatory component of the disease 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:24.760 is probably the root cause of some of these behavioral 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.720 changes that we see in infected animals and humans, and 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.640 that was one of the most rewarding findings that has 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.200 come out of my laboratory. 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.120 What I mean, I'm sure it's far and wide, but 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:42.000 in a nutshell, what is the most effective treatment for 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.200 that inflammation in the Brian Is it just an antibiotic, 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:46.760 is it a string of things? 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:48.200 Or am I off the mark? 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:53.880 No, You're not off the mark. Neuroinflammation is linked to 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:59.080 a variety of different diseases. So there are some therapeutics 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.159 that are trying to be developed where they can do 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:07.559 like a targeted you know, quelling of that neuroinflammation, because 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:12.080 it's always a catch twenty two. If that neuroinflammation is 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:15.520 caused by an infectious agent and you get rid of it, 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:19.920 there's a risk that the infection could roar back, maybe 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.960 in a very dangerous way, or some unrelated infection. You know, 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.600 you could be susceptible to that. It's to catch twenty two. 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.080 It's some of these immunotherapies that try to dampen the 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:34.080 immune system, and people who have allergies or autoimmune disease. 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:38.080 You can do that and alleviate those symptoms, but you 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:43.080 make those individuals more vulnerable to infection because their immune 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:45.520 system is modestly depressed. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.440 Yes, yes, I didn't plan to tell you this, but 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.880 I'm going to tell you this because it's vaguely in 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.280 the ballpark. But the last month or so, I've felt rubbish, right, 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.720 And I try to not let people know that because 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.280 I don't think not because I don't want people to know, 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:03.800 but because I don't want to turn up and do 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:05.800 my job and say, by the way, I feel trash. 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.080 So you're going to get a three out of ten podcast, right, 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.360 or whatever it is, whatever it is the thing that 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:14.480 I'm doing. But I've had this, just this, you know, 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.200 onslaught of weird and different symptoms. And I thought I 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.640 had diabetes because I was thirsty all the time, and 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.040 which I don't eat rubbish. I eate two meals a day. 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.200 I don't drink beer, I don't drink soft drink. You know, 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.160 like that, from a behavioral point of view, the chance 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.959 of me and from a physiological point of view, fit 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:34.199 I'm strong, I'm healthy, I'm lean. 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:35.640 It doesn't make sense. 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:37.800 But my dad had diabetes and I went, well, mate, 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.240 or has diabetes. So I'm like, well, maybe this is 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.360 genetic and this is me now so, and then a 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:45.720 whole bunch of other things like weeing a bunch and 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.120 I'm like, oh, maybe I've got prostate issues and all 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:49.120 these old man things. 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:52.480 I'm like, really, I don't know. Anyway, went had all 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:54.559 of these tests done and all of that. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.760 Good, like, you're not a diabetic, you're not even nearly 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.760 a diabetic, you don't have prostate issues, your PSA is low, 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.880 don't have like your cholesterol's low, your blood pressure is low. 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.080 And then they said but and then I had to 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.240 have a CT scan on my head and they went, well, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:10.040 you've got. 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:12.600 Basically the whole right side of your face. 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.120 The sinuses are blocked and I was getting constant blocked 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.000 years right and you've got an infection in your head 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:20.240 that you probably had for months. 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:21.920 And I'm like, could that explain all this? 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.560 And they go yes, I go because I feel like 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:30.000 dog shit, and they went, well, that could be it. 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.520 And then so I have for the last six months. 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:34.400 Doc had. 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.079 Every day of every day, not one day without it 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.240 where my ears would block, and sometimes it be one ear, 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:46.640 sometimes it'd be two. And I did a speaking gigla 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.920 not last week, the week before. Yeah, so about nine 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.040 days ago, ten days ago, and both of my ears blocked. 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.199 Before the presentation, I had to talk for two and 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:59.240 a half hours with two totally blocked years. 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:04.160 And you can't. I can't hear anyone. I can't. My 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.040 voice is reverberating in my head. It is so loud 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:09.800 that if I say, go to the toilet. 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:14.040 Where I'm in a quiet room, I can hear my 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.520 heartbeat in my head. I can just stand still and 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.120 I could tell you what my current heart rate is 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:23.800 just by looking at my watch and you know, doing 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:27.400 fifteen seconds counting the beats, multiplying before I can go 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.640 my heart rate sixty at the moment or whatever, right, 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:35.679 And it just makes communication and interaction and focusing almost impossible. 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:37.120 So I've had that forever. 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:41.760 Yeah, so I'm sorry you went through that ordeal. But 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:43.600 did you get legs amuntombiotics? 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.920 Yeah, so, I've got doxy cycling. I think that's what 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.320 it's called. Is that anyway? And so I started on 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.920 that I'm currently I think today was my fourth or 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.240 fifth and for the first time in six months, I've 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.880 had touchwood. I don't want to get ahead of myself, 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.839 but for about forty eight hours, I haven't had a 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:05.000 blocked year, which. 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:06.640 Is like a miracle. 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.880 And it's just like and it's this sounds weird and 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.200 it's but talking to you now is so awesome because 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.040 I can hear you clearly, my ear is not blocked. 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:17.080 And then it's me. 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:18.720 But just because you can hear. 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:23.000 No, you're definitely therapeutic, so with Jesus for doctor Bill. 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.480 But here's the thing though, when all this shit happens, right, so, 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.400 there's this physiological stuff that's gone on but also impacts 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.559 your brain because you've got inflammation, you know, right up there, 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:38.120 and then it then it affects your psychology. And then 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.880 I would start to get nervous ten fifteen minutes before 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:46.079 a gig, thinking please don't block, please don't block, please 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.719 don't block, and invariably they would block, and it's like. 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:51.280 I almost talk myself into it. 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:56.560 So anyway, yeah, that's that's where I'm at, and it's 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.480 it seems to be it seems to be on the end, 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.760 which is so good. It's so funny when one little 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.680 thing and it's well, seems little, but it can just 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:12.400 make such a big difference to everything from psychology to emotion, 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:17.959 to sociology, to physiology to energy to you know, function, 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.000 Like it's like your body is so finely tuned. 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.560 Yeah, it's almost it's hard to believe that. You know, 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:32.280 before nineteen thirties, antibiotics didn't exist. You know, people literally 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.240 died from a lot of these infections. And yeah, we 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.040 really take that group of drugs for granted, and they 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:43.880 really are small miracles, so imagine but continues working for 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:45.920 you and you make a full recovery soon. 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:46.559 Thanks sir. 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.800 Yeah, I yeah, it's like literally I thought about that. 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.040 I thought about somebody with this two hundred years ago, 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.040 what happened to them because they hadn't taken anything that 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:58.880 was going to kill the infection, or they didn't have 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.319 access to that, or they didn't know what killed And 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.440 you know, I'm like, maybe someone would have died probably, 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:04.800 you know. 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:09.160 So now, well there's a reason why life expectancy was 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:14.079 like forty years of age prior to the discovery of 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:15.439 the germ theory of disease. 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing. 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.319 Now speaking of research and speaking of breakthroughs and speaking 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:28.800 of potential treatments for something which is very common unfortunately 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:35.600 in our population, Alzheimer's is being or they're looking at 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.679 treating Alzheimer's with lithium, or they are doing that or 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:40.920 I didn't do a deep dive because I wanted you 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:42.920 to tell me. I just know that there's something interesting 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:43.960 happening in that space. 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.920 Yeah, there's been a very exciting study that came out 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.080 back in August, and I thought it would be really 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:55.240 wonderful to talk about it because Alzheimer's has touched so 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:59.320 many lives, either people developing it themselves or they have 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:01.880 a friend or a loved one who's suffering from it. 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:07.280 That and there's no cure, which makes the terror even 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:12.920 more amplified. But like you said, Alzheimer's it's one of 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:17.640 the most common forms of dementia and it's terrifying if 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:23.120 you've ever witnessed someone's succumbing to these symptoms of you know, 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:29.960 gradually losing their memory, gradually losing their cognitive abilities, their 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:35.360 capacity for reason and good decision making, developing paranoia, and 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.280 all sorts of horrible things as this disease progresses and 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:44.640 slowly erodes the brain. But we're talking about fifty seven 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.960 million people worldwide, which is a substantial number of people, 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.920 and as more people we were just talking about, like 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.800 the average life expectancy age, it's much higher these days, 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:01.920 and old age is a significant factor Alzheimer's. So as 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:06.760 our population continues to live into these advanced ages, Alzheimer's 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:12.160 is probably going to become even more common. So a 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:16.240 lot of researchers are doubling down on investing into trying 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:20.120 to find a new treatment for this terrible and poorly 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:25.680 understood disease. So in addition to the human toll that 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:30.119 it takes, there's a significant economic toll associated with Alzheimer's 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:34.720 disease too. So as I was researching this particular study 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:36.320 that came out in August because I want to do 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:40.560 a popular science article about it, I was struck to 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:44.240 find that in twenty nineteen and an estimate was made 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.400 on what the global cost of Alzheimer's is and it's 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:52.280 one point three trillion dollars in US money. Wow, So 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.840 it's just staggering. You can think about what that kind 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.720 of money could be going towards if it wasn't dealing 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.120 with the aftermath of Alzheimer's and what it does to people. 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:08.840 So just really underscores the urgency to come up with 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.800 new treatments. And that's why this study which came out 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:17.680 of Harvard Medical School led by a geneticist and neuroscientist 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:22.600 named Bruce Yank Nurse. So he and his team have 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.080 come up with this connection that hasn't been seen before 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:33.120 with lithium in the brain and the pathogenesis of Alzheimer's. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:38.520 And the study was important for well several major reasons. 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.760 The first of which is no one really appreciated that 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:47.280 the element lithium had a major role in the function 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.120 of the brain. Yes, and this study kind of showed that, 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.520 and we can walk through some of the details why. 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.680 The second major feature is that it could lead to 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:02.400 new treatments. This is a not discovery, first time it 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:06.119 was ever seen, and if it does hold up, it 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:10.080 could lead to a very rapid progression of new treatments 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.639 for Alzheimer's there's very few at the moment. And it 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.880 can also lead to a new diagnostic tool because now 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.680 we know that you know, with lithium being connected to Alzheimer's. 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.399 You can measure that element in the blood and maybe 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:28.520 come up with a new screening tool to identify Alzheimer's 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.959 in people before the more dramatic symptoms kick in, and 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.760 that would give you the advantage of treating early and 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:40.040 maybe slowing progression of disease, because once it gets going, 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:41.919 there's really not much we can do about it. 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:47.159 Yeah, So so to have almost like a preemptive stroke 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:51.879 or a preventative measure before it kind of accelerates, so 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:52.600 tykes called. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.600 Yeah, Yeah, there's drugs that kind of like put obstacles 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.359 in the in the way of the disease progression. And 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.119 it's not eliminated. It's not going to stop it, but 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.200 it will slow it down and maybe give it'll certainly 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.240 extend the quality of life and maybe even give these 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:13.080 individuals some extra extra years. 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.760 What's what's the mechanism? Like, do you know how it works? 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.080 Like what they did they come up with? Obviously it's 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.360 doing something good, or it's mitigating something or slowing something 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:24.119 or what did they find? 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:24.360 Then? 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:25.800 What is it that causes it? 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.560 Right? So I'll tell you a little bit about Alzheimer's first, 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.280 you can so you can understand the study a little better. 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.600 So this was a disease that was first described in 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.040 the early nineteen hundreds, but the trademark feature was that 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.760 in these people who were suffering from dementia, memory loss, 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:48.480 and basically, you know, even not being able to remember 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.080 their name or their loved ones or where they lived, 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:57.600 you know, very significant things. When these individuals, you know, 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:03.439 pass on, investigations of their brain started to commence. So 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:07.480 in the autopsies, you don't need to be a scientist 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:11.760 or doctor to identify which brain had Alzheimer's and which 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:17.080 brain did not. These brains look dramatically different. They're usually shrunken, 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.920 and they they're lacking some gray matter. But under the microscope, 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:26.760 what you will also see are these things called amyloid plaques, 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.000 and these are made of a protein called amyloid that 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:35.560 is not being processed correctly. They form these aggregates that 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.680 get in between the brain cells and kind of mess 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:43.520 up their communicating with one another. So it really disrupts 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.919 brain thought patterns, and that explains a lot of the 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:53.119 cognitive defects that we see in Alzheimer's patients. So knowing 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:57.480 that these plaques form is a big step forward. But 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:01.679 We've known that for almost I guess one hundred years now, 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.639 and we still haven't come up with really, you know, 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.640 decent treatments for them. We don't really have a way 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.639 to get rid of them. One of the older treatments 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:19.040 for Alzheimer's was cholinesterase inhibitors, and that modulates neurotransmitters in 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:23.320 the brain to try to preserve memory a little bit, 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:28.240 preserve learning ability and motor skills as well. But the 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.840 newer therapies are monoclonal antibodies, and these are directed to 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:37.600 the amyloid proteins themselves, so patients can be given these antibodies. 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.639 They will bind up the plaques and then sometimes the 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:46.240 immune system will help even you degrade the plaque to 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:50.359 a degree. And whether these are really effective on a 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.959 large scale is a little The data is a little mixed. 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.240 They do seem to respond better in some people than others. 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.560 But the bottom line, the upshot of at all is 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.720 that we really don't have excellent treatments for Alzheimer's and 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:08.520 these patients are really in need of a breakthrough discovery, 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:13.320 and this study linking lithium to it could be that answer. 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.920 How is it used like that I don't know. Do 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.160 they get in as a tablets, do they get injected? 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.600 How is lithium used as a treatment. 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.160 Oh well, that's I'm glad you brought that up, because 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:31.480 the study did not look at how lithium works in 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.920 human patients just yet. So this study was it did 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:41.119 involve looking at human brains and what was going on 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.000 with lithium, and I'll explain that in a minute. But 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:48.600 the actual proof of concept for the utility that lithium 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:52.159 might have as an Alzheimer's treatment was limited to mice 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.360 so far. You know, scientists have genetically engineered a mouse 0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:02.160 to lack a certain gene that predisposes it to Alzheimer's. 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:06.399 So we got this wonderful mouse model of Alzheimer's. And 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.080 as these mice age, because they have this genetic mutation, 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.840 they start to develop the same amyloid plaques and the 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:19.200 same deficiencies in memory learning and so on. Right, right, 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:23.040 So let's let's get into this lithium part. 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:26.119 Sure, sure, sure, So it. 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:30.240 Was known through other research that these amyloid plaques they're 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:34.199 kind of sticky, and you know, I would hope that 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:38.440 your audience knows that metals are part of our diet, 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:43.560 you know, like calcium, iron, copper, you know, even like 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.600 sodium potassium. These these are metals, and a lot of people, 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:49.639 you know, they look at you funny if you say, like, 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:53.400 you know, you're eating metal in your diet, and that's 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:57.160 perfectly fine. You know, you have trace metals, trace elements 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:00.920 in your food that actually play a role in your biology. 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:04.399 A lot of enzymes in your cells require some of 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.640 these metals in order to function. And it turns out 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:12.720 that previous research was finding that these amyloid plaques could 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:15.480 bind some of the metals that are supposed to be 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:20.840 operating in your brain. So these scientists that Harvard wondered, well, 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:23.440 why don't we look at all the metals that people 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:28.520 would possibly ingest and see if there's a difference between 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:33.600 an Alzheimer's brain and a normal brain. OK. So they 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:38.280 tested like twenty seven different metals and there pretty much 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:42.240 wasn't any difference between a diseased brain and a normal brain, 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:46.680 with the exception of lithium. So it turns out that 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:51.399 people with Alzheimer's their brain had very little and possibly 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:56.040