1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Now let's have a look at the issue of protecting nature. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: There is a it segues nicely. There's a whole page 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: in the Australian dedicated to this about the ecological habitats 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: under threat in Australia. And Professor Hugh Possingham from the 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: University of Queensland and Chief of the Biodiversity Council on 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: the line. Here are you one of the signatories to 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: this tell us the issues here, Hi, Matthew. 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 2: Here the document talks about meeting our international commitments. So 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 2: Australia signed up to a whole series of commitments on 10 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 2: saving biodiversity. I think all of your listeners would know 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 2: that biodiversities in a bit of a mess in Australia, 12 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 2: particularly in Australia. For example, we created something called the 13 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: Threatened Species Index that shows that the populations of Australia's 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 2: two thousand threatened species are on average declining at four 15 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: percent per year. I mentioned if the GP was going 16 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: down at four percent per year. So that's the infrastructure 17 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: that essential to our prosperity, bide diversity. It's declining quickly. 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: So we signed up, like almost every other nation in 19 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: the world to protect thirty percent of Australia's land and 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 2: sea in protected areas, and to make that a representative 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: thirty percent, not just the desert and the fail away 22 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: places thirty percent, and also to manage that protected area 23 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: system properly. And unfortunately we're not really meeting those goals. 24 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: We've got to twenty thirty. So we're there trying to 25 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 2: encourage all Australian's governments to meet that commitment, that international 26 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: commitment that we've made. 27 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: You know, Hewitt, it's funny we hear politicians of all colors, 28 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: all stripes talking about the importance of the environment and 29 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: preserving bits and pieces. But your letter in the paper 30 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: today talks about the government, the federal government allocating just 31 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: zero point one percent of total spending on protecting Australia's 32 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: unique and vale reuble nature. 33 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: That's right, and the people of Australia sort of get that. Now. 34 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: We did a big independent survey of several thousand people 35 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: and we found that ninety five percent of Australias actually 36 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 2: want more spending on nature and zero point one percent. Well, 37 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: it's not a lot. Is that it might be one 38 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: of the things on one of the propellers of one 39 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: of those submarines we're about to buy. It's there seems 40 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: a tiny amount. It's below well below the international lowe 41 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: see the standards, And if we keep spending at that 42 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: low level, we're never going to meet our commitments and 43 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 2: we're not going to stop the decline of bid diversity. Obviously, 44 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: in many places in Australia, particularly also in South Australia, 45 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: the philanthropy is stepping up a bit, the not proprofit 46 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: sector stepping up, and some industries are stepping up to 47 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 2: through protection that we're still falling well short. So the 48 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: private sector is starting to do a lot of the 49 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: heavy lifting. We really just want government to match that. 50 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: And there were big schemes in the past, in the 51 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: early two thousands where the federal government were investing hundreds 52 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: of millions of dollars in combination with the States and 53 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: also not for profits to increase the protected area system. 54 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: But that money is all since fallen away. 55 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: Indeed, a lot depends on this. I mean, we talk 56 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: about the environment and think it's somewhere out there, but 57 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: I mean at the end of the day, food production, 58 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: the production depends on a healthy environment and ecological system. 59 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: Oh, you're exactly right. I mean the key one is 60 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: pollination services. A lot of crops, a lot of what 61 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: we eat had to be pollinated by something, and these 62 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: days a lot of that happens with honey bees. That 63 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: there are thousands of Australian native bees that also contribute. 64 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: And many of your listeners will also know about the 65 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: varroa might and other diseases at beginning in the honeybee industry. 66 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: So there's quite a collapse going on in honey bees. 67 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: The b owners know this, it's harder to move them around. 68 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 2: I don't know how far it's got into South Australia. 69 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 2: I was born in South Australia, but I only go 70 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: back three or four times a year. It's right in 71 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: New South Wales. So we really need that bio diversity. 72 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: Soil productivity, of course, all our crops is driven by 73 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 2: soil productivity and that relies on a huge number of organisms. 74 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: And then Australia's export tourism industry is almost entirely relied 75 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: on by diversity. Who has worked one teen years ago 76 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 2: showing just the koala, just that one species is probably 77 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: worth two billion dollars a year to the Australian economy. 78 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: Two billion dollars a year, and presumably most right, most 79 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: of that's because a huge number of people largely come 80 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: to Australia. They don't come for the night clubs, to 81 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: be honest, you know, and maybe a few come for 82 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 2: the beaches. But what's Australia got that nobody else has 83 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 2: got in the world? Just nature that nobody else can 84 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: see any else. Even a common kangaroo, which we would 85 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 2: all take for granted, is amazing to oversee. People the 86 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: fact you can walk around the streets of Adelaide and 87 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: see half a dozen species of para, glass of cockatoos, 88 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 2: fabulous things like that. But we again take for granted. 89 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 2: These blow people's minds, I mean, and they're very excited 90 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 2: about that destiny due to it from nature. So it's 91 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 2: a gigantic industry, Yeah. 92 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: It is. And part of the answer there and the 93 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: reason why we see all this And you're right, we 94 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: totally take it for granted. But it's a huge country 95 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: and we haven't filled it and so therefore what still 96 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: survives is pretty special, even though we fail to recognize 97 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: that sometimes. 98 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and also we are the most isolated continent world. 99 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 2: We've been wandering north for fifty million years almost on 100 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,679 Speaker 2: our own. So nothing we have is like any anywhere 101 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: else in the world. And we know that about the 102 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 2: soup yuels, So you know things like the platypus kidnap 103 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: egg laying mammals, right, what's a mammal doing laying? And 104 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 2: eg that's meant bird. So these things just don't exist 105 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: anywhere else in the planet. People probably don't even realize 106 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: that a lot of common bushbirds like the willy wagtails 107 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 2: that any people having their backgarden that's not related to 108 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 2: anything else in the rest of the planet. These are 109 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: quite unusual and unique species. The bird watching industry alone 110 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: in the United States is worth two hundred and sixty 111 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: billion dollars a year. I say b not m bird 112 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 2: watching is two hundred and sixty billion dollars a year. 113 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 2: So all those people want to come to Australia at 114 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: least once or twice in their life, and they want 115 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: to see the floor of the fauna, the large landscapes, 116 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: the desert's the range for us that we had to offer. 117 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: Indeed, one of the points in Yoletta talking about the 118 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: highest species extinction rates in the world is what we're 119 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: facing unless we get on top of this and that's 120 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: that's concerning kangaroos. You'd think wouldn't be on that list. 121 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: Koalas seemed to be endangered on the East Coast, not 122 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: so much here. They're they're here in abundant numbers in 123 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: essay as you'd. 124 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: Be aware, yes, yes, and they're they're they're doing reasonally 125 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 2: well in South Australia and Victoria, and their numbers are growing, 126 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: and you know, there are encouraging signs. I spent a 127 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: lot of time down on the Limestone Coast and I've 128 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 2: seen increases in the abundance of things like Wallaby's which 129 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: were once shot routinely, you know, in the early parwered 130 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: last century. If there was a mammal, you shot it. 131 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 2: And the fact that we don't do those things is 132 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: now enabled them to increase. Koalas are spreading a common one, 133 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 2: that's a spreading. The trick is there's not a lot 134 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: of habitat left. And although actually technically South Australia has 135 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 2: quite a large protected area system, the southern agricultural regions 136 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: are quite poorly protected. Places like the Lower Southeast, the 137 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 2: mid North you pininsual area area the reserve systems, there 138 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: are only five or six percent, and this is where 139 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: we need to do lascow restoration and protect every single 140 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: piece of habitat that's left because there's so little. There's 141 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: no real excuse for putting more houses in agriculture and 142 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: mines on native vegetation when there's such a small amount 143 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: left in the Negro cultural districts. 144 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: What do you make then, of solar farms, wind farms 145 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: taking over agricultural areas, farming land, particularly through New South Wales, 146 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: which is coppying it up in Queensland, wind farms being 147 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: put in rainforests. It makes no sense to me. 148 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there again, this is all about planning, 149 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 2: and I am on the Native Vegetation Council in South 150 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 2: Australia and I assist Queensland and New Southles a lot 151 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: with planning issues. You can have a win win outcome. 152 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: It's just if you don't have proper planning. We've repeatedly 153 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: proposed there should be red zones. These are places don't 154 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 2: bother applying for a wind farm or are sold farm 155 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 2: here because it's too important for nature that I might 156 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 2: only be a few percent of the country. Then there 157 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: would be possibly green zones. This is degraded agricultural land, 158 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: it's not high value. Agricultural land, doesn't have much biodiversity, 159 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 2: We're not going to have problems with soil erosion. These 160 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: are the places we should be encouraging development and actually 161 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: making development easier and faster because environmental regulations will slow 162 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 2: things down and we need this energy transition to live 163 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 2: really quickly, ahired, and those maps are essential with the 164 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 2: red and the green zones. And then there's going to 165 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 2: be some mushy stuff in the middle where we're going 166 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: to have to regulate an offset and do a whole 167 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 2: bit of other things. So you're exactly right. We've been 168 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 2: promising these plans, state and federal government plans that everybody 169 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 2: agrees to, including local council where the developers, whether they're 170 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 2: housing wind farm, solar thouns, mining critical minerals. The rules 171 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: are very clear and they're on a map. And then 172 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: surely that would progress from both economic perspective and got 173 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: a long way to go. 174 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: But thirty x thirty dot org dot AU if people 175 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: want to check it out, and that's thirty protecting thirty 176 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: percent of our lands and oceans by twenty thirty thirty 177 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: by thirty at the numbers dot org dot au and 178 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: people can go there and have a look at some 179 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 1: of the material presenting. Hugh, appreciate your time, Thank. 180 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 2: You, Thanks for matte. 181 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: Professor Hugh Possingham from the University of Queensland, Chief of 182 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: the Biodiversity Council, as well big full page ad in 183 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: the Australian Today on getting on with protecting nature and 184 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: the article also or the ad goes on to say 185 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: since settlement in Australia, so we're talking two hundred and 186 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: forty odd years, forty percent of our forests have been 187 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: destroyed since European settlement and nineteen Australian ecosystem showing signs 188 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: of collapse, facing one of the highest species extinction rates 189 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: in the world, with the overall state of our environment 190 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: on a consistent downward trend, which is very pessimistic. You'd 191 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: have to say as to the future, but to this 192 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: campaign in urging the federal government to spend more on 193 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: conservation of important areas, and they are you know, we 194 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: can talk about climate change and everything else, but to 195 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: lose any more of what we've lost in Australia in 196 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: terms of native land would be a crying shame. And 197 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: yes there are planning challenges, no doubt about that with 198 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: wind farms. And I'll refer to Portland again, being down 199 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: there earlier this year and driving through forest land that's 200 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: been cleared to put up big power lines on big towers, 201 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: and they need a you know, probably a fifty meters 202 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: probably more one hundred meter clearance one side of the 203 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: forest to the other to put these big power lines in. 204 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: And you think, if I look at a tree the 205 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: wrong way in suburban Adelaide, the council's on my back, 206 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: let alone, daring to cut down a limb that's hanging 207 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 1: over a house or a fen or something. But if 208 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: it's a forest and a power line, no problem at all.