WEBVTT - "Dating Apps Have Created a Throwaway Culture" - Sexologist Lucille Shackleton

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<v Speaker 1>This episode contains discussions of child abuse. If this raises

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<v Speaker 1>any issues for you, support is.

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<v Speaker 2>Available through the links and phone numbers in the show notes.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to First things first, I'm Brook Blert and my

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<v Speaker 1>pronouns are she and her.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Maddie Miles. My pronouns are he and him. And

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<v Speaker 3>before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge the custodiums

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<v Speaker 3>of the land on which we record and for me

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<v Speaker 3>and Brooke today it's the Gatigil people of the or Nation.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, we've got an exciting guest coming up, the Seal Shackleton,

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<v Speaker 1>who is a lot of things which.

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<v Speaker 4>Will jump into let's go.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome, Welcome, thank you, thank you for having me. It's

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<v Speaker 2>great to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>So tell us a little bit about your job, your profession,

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<v Speaker 1>who you are, where you're from. We always say who's

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<v Speaker 1>your mom? Where's you from? But later.

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<v Speaker 2>Lucille she her pronouns. I grew up in Sydney and

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<v Speaker 2>I've kind of done a range of different things. I

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<v Speaker 2>got into relationship therapy and sex therapy in all honesty

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<v Speaker 2>because of my my own experiences. It's an area of

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<v Speaker 2>interest for me. And you know, when I was younger,

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<v Speaker 2>I had challenge it. Wow, I mean we all have

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<v Speaker 2>challenges in relationships, but it really kind of was born

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<v Speaker 2>out of that desire to understand my own challenges in relationships.

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<v Speaker 2>So I started by studying a Bachelor of behavioral Science.

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<v Speaker 2>I went on to study counseling public health and then

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<v Speaker 2>did sexology or psychosexual therapy. So I now kind of

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<v Speaker 2>specialize in relationships and in sex therapy, and yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>help people improve their relationship, dating and their sex lives.

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<v Speaker 3>Can I ask what is sexology?

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<v Speaker 2>Sexology is the study of sex, sexuality, sexual experiences, your

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<v Speaker 2>relationship with yourself as a sexual being. So it's everything

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<v Speaker 2>around sex, intimacy, and your experiences as a sexual or

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<v Speaker 2>erotic being. So it covers sexual health, it covers intimacy.

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<v Speaker 2>It's kind of a really broad area. So when someone

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<v Speaker 2>says that they're a sexologist, usually they have some sort

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<v Speaker 2>of formal training in sex, gender, sexuality, intimacy, and those

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<v Speaker 2>sorts of areas, and often that kind of filters through

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<v Speaker 2>to relationships. But one of the reasons I kind of

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<v Speaker 2>say that I specialize in both is because when I

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<v Speaker 2>was I started out as a relationship therapist and through

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<v Speaker 2>working with people and you know, sex often comes into

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<v Speaker 2>the sessions when you're working with people on the relation

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<v Speaker 2>on their relationships. When I studied all the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>main frameworks for relationship therapy, there was a very little

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<v Speaker 2>conversation or teaching about sex, and so I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't feel prepared to really navigate with people. I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, why don't I know this if I've studied

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<v Speaker 2>all this stuff, And so I went and got a

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<v Speaker 2>master's in sexology or psycho sexual therapy to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>give me more skills and tools to help people.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not really taught a lot in high school. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>my very very little sex education was coming from a

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<v Speaker 1>sealed section in a Cosmopolitan magazine or a girlfriend magazine.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you knew what both. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>the seal section, you rip it and it'd be like

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<v Speaker 1>how to give the best blowjob or something like that happen, Yeah, seriously,

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<v Speaker 1>And I did have exist, but they just come back.

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<v Speaker 1>So Cosmos just come back and they've got a seal.

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<v Speaker 3>Section now, so it's like it's seal.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, like you can peel So it's like a

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<v Speaker 1>sealed little magazine within a magazine, and you kind of

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<v Speaker 1>peel it off and it's.

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<v Speaker 4>Got all this sort of like but that's for me.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think that's really like a healthy way because

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<v Speaker 1>like why does it need to be sealed?

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<v Speaker 4>Like why is it?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it covering up in it? It's like in this

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<v Speaker 1>secret and it's like, well, no.

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<v Speaker 3>That's true.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think like growing up, that was the very

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<v Speaker 1>little education that I had around sex. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>know that's some really awesome advocates around consent. I think

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<v Speaker 1>Chantel Contest do you know her, Yeah, she has put

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<v Speaker 1>in a lot of consent ledg or for that legislation

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<v Speaker 1>to be in schools. I think as well. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's a big improvement around consent personally. What would you

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<v Speaker 1>say like has been the biggest barrier? I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in what you've researched over the time that you've been

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<v Speaker 1>in relationship and sexologists, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think if we go with the theme of kind of

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<v Speaker 2>what you're talking about, and that is sex education. So

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<v Speaker 2>I used to work in shelters with teens and it

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<v Speaker 2>was really evident to me the lack of information out there.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think what I've really noticed with young people

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<v Speaker 2>is that, especially for kids within the queer community, the

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<v Speaker 2>information that they're getting is very heteronormative. So the most

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<v Speaker 2>of the education that people are receiving in schools is

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<v Speaker 2>very heteronormative, so it may not actually be relevant for

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<v Speaker 2>their relationships or their sexual experiences, which then leads people

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<v Speaker 2>to access information on the internet. And I think this

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<v Speaker 2>is the biggest challenge that we have today. It's that

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<v Speaker 2>young people are accessing a lot of education through things

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<v Speaker 2>like porn, and that doesn't cover things like consent, It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't cover things like safe sex practices and condom use.

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<v Speaker 2>And it is also, you know, very geared towards certain

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<v Speaker 2>ways of achieving pleasure, and so I think it's created

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<v Speaker 2>this very skewed understanding of sex, and I think it

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<v Speaker 2>really stunts people's development of their sexual self confidence and

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<v Speaker 2>embracing themselves and feeling comfortable with them in themselves.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I feel like there's a whole generation of men

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<v Speaker 3>who just sort of putting their own needs, I suppose,

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<v Speaker 3>all their own wants above women, you know when it

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<v Speaker 3>comes to sex. When you were doing your masters, was

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<v Speaker 3>there much like teaching on same sex?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I did a subject specifically on sex, gender and sexuality,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was amazing.

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<v Speaker 4>I wanted to do that yeah, I feel like I

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<v Speaker 4>would learn.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's so much more about myself more than about

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<v Speaker 1>other people's stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>I feel like this case study is me.

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<v Speaker 2>It's fascinating because I think what it helps you kind

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<v Speaker 2>of unpack is just how socially conditioned we all are

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<v Speaker 2>from the experiences we've had growing up around what relationships

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<v Speaker 2>should look like, what sex should look like. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think this is one of the big challenges I have

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<v Speaker 2>with social media. I think social media has a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of really gendered messages that we've seen dating and relationships.

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<v Speaker 2>And whilst you know, I think social media is an

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<v Speaker 2>incredible platform to access information, it's really important to be

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<v Speaker 2>really discerning around who you're getting that information from.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I feel like that's my biggest struggle.

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<v Speaker 1>I think working with you kind of re educating them

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<v Speaker 1>to not trust everything that they're reading, listening to, or

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<v Speaker 1>watching on TikTok and these other platforms, because I think,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they kind of take it for Bible because

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<v Speaker 1>they have such easy access to it, and it's like

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<v Speaker 1>it's terrifying, it's so scary.

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<v Speaker 3>Would you say that consent is something that is like

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<v Speaker 3>a top tier priority when it comes to sexual education

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<v Speaker 3>in schools? Or what do you think is like absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>I think this is the thing. Like if we think

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<v Speaker 2>about sex, and you know, people are often focused on

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<v Speaker 2>like pleasure, how can we have good sex? We can't

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<v Speaker 2>have good sex unless we feel safe. We can't feel

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<v Speaker 2>safe if we don't have consent. And I think consent

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<v Speaker 2>is a consistent conversation. It is, you know, a question

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<v Speaker 2>that you ask, but it's also continual in our you know,

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<v Speaker 2>learning how to respond to one another, how to tune

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<v Speaker 2>into one another, how to listen for cues in order

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<v Speaker 2>to keep kind of having that consistent conversation. And even

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<v Speaker 2>if that's not verbal all the time, it's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>learning to kind of tune into your partner and check

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<v Speaker 2>in with them and see where they're at. And it's

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<v Speaker 2>things like after care. It's not just like do you

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<v Speaker 2>want to do this now? It's also like how was

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<v Speaker 2>that for you? You know, how did you feel? How

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<v Speaker 2>did you experience?

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<v Speaker 3>That? Is?

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<v Speaker 4>I love a debrief.

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<v Speaker 2>And like you know what you need after do you

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<v Speaker 2>want paddles? Like to feel close? And I think even

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<v Speaker 2>just things like that, I think the way that consent

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<v Speaker 2>is often taught to young people, well, sex in general,

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<v Speaker 2>I think is very fear focused. It's very like focused

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<v Speaker 2>on contraception, you know, safe sex practices, like how to

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<v Speaker 2>use a condom, all of that sort of stuff, But

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<v Speaker 2>it's not like, and I don't know, part of me

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<v Speaker 2>thinks like, how how could we teach it in a

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<v Speaker 2>way that's actually going to empower people rather than scare them.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, because like if you.

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<v Speaker 2>Think about sex education that TV show right, like, it

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<v Speaker 2>was all about empowering young people to make choices, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the more information you have and the more

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<v Speaker 2>confident you feel in yourself, the more you can navigate

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<v Speaker 2>these difficult conversations.

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<v Speaker 4>Around that that don't seem so scary.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. Like I remember, even in my adult life,

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<v Speaker 1>like learning so much stuff about myself and then having

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<v Speaker 1>the confidence because it wasn't so scary because I sort

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<v Speaker 1>of broke that barrier because I'd made like felt confident

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<v Speaker 1>enough to say things or ask things or just you know,

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<v Speaker 1>go kind of like go for it in a way

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<v Speaker 1>where it's comfortable and consensual.

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<v Speaker 4>But then it wasn't so scary.

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<v Speaker 1>After that, I was like, oh, okay, yeah, not to

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<v Speaker 1>like bring it down or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 4>But I think my experience with sex were.

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<v Speaker 1>Like first times were like non consensual, and I knew

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<v Speaker 1>that it was wrong, Like I guess my first like

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<v Speaker 1>full transparency, and I'm okay with talking about this because

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<v Speaker 1>I also am in therapy and I feel.

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<v Speaker 4>Like that I've got support.

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<v Speaker 1>But I was molested when I was younger, and that

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<v Speaker 1>was a boundary that well, I didn't even know what

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<v Speaker 1>boundaries were at that age, and I didn't even know

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<v Speaker 1>what they were really more into like my early twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenties or mid twenties really, but so my first like

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<v Speaker 1>sexual encounter for pleasure per se was not I guess,

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<v Speaker 1>enjoyable either, because I'd already I'd already had this misconstrued

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<v Speaker 1>idea of what sex was and what pleasure was, and

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<v Speaker 1>like I thought that it this is kind of fucked up,

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<v Speaker 1>but I thought it meant to hurt and that's not okay.

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<v Speaker 1>And so it's like pleasure wasn't pleasure for me for

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<v Speaker 1>a very long time, and it wasn't until like I actually, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>learned more about myself and I had someone who I

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<v Speaker 1>felt comfortable enough to communicate and talk to about my

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<v Speaker 1>needs and my wants later in life that it all

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<v Speaker 1>changed for me. And I think that's like a very

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<v Speaker 1>common thing I think for a lot of women, which

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<v Speaker 1>kind of terrifies me and fucking scares me.

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<v Speaker 4>About it, because.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I have a different relationship to sex now, but

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<v Speaker 1>when I was younger, it was a very fucking confusing

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<v Speaker 1>navigation for me, like hugely, And I think that's probably

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<v Speaker 1>why I'm so motivate to make sure that I'm saying

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<v Speaker 1>and doing the right things for other young people because

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like a pressure to to to them for

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<v Speaker 1>them to not go through that, but then also to

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<v Speaker 1>have the confidence and exploration and voice voice is a

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<v Speaker 1>huge thing to ask the right questions and to have

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<v Speaker 1>those boundaries. I think, yeah, that was an overshare apology

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<v Speaker 1>if but apologize sex for me like I enjoy it now,

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<v Speaker 1>but previous to my Yeah, I've had my boundaries cross

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<v Speaker 1>so many times throughout my life.

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<v Speaker 4>It's not okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I just want to say that I'm sorry that you

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<v Speaker 2>had that experience, and I think it's incredibly powerful that

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<v Speaker 2>you share that on a platform like this, because what

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<v Speaker 2>I can tell you is that I have worked with

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<v Speaker 2>so many women who struggle to enjoy sex as a

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<v Speaker 2>result of sexual experiences that they have had with their

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<v Speaker 2>boundaries have been cross where they have been hurt, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think the more that people's voices are shared, there's

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<v Speaker 2>so much healing that comes from that. So I just

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to say thank you for sharing that, and also

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry that that's what you've experienced.

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<v Speaker 1>I've found a lot of the time that I have

0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:17.240
<v Speaker 1>shared with other women per se like they've gone through

0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:21.000
<v Speaker 1>similar experience, which is actually awful. And then I think of,

0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:22.880
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, if I'm going through this, you're going

0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.200
<v Speaker 1>through this. Have other young people gone through this? And

0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.280
<v Speaker 1>I think that's what I get so terrified for. But

0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.280
<v Speaker 1>I think, you know, I wrote a book a couple

0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:32.680
<v Speaker 1>of years ago, and one of the biggest challenges for

0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:37.680
<v Speaker 1>me writing that book was having the confidence to be like, Okay,

0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.439
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to share something really fucking vulnerable and it's

0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.400
<v Speaker 1>going to be terrifying, but I think it's the right

0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:45.280
<v Speaker 1>thing to do. I think I need to do this

0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.760
<v Speaker 1>because it's not just for me. It's like, if it's

0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.680
<v Speaker 1>for future women, it's for future people, however they identify it.

0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:55.760
<v Speaker 1>But I think like sharing that, I've had a fuck

0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.120
<v Speaker 1>ton of messages from people who have gone through similar

0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.360
<v Speaker 1>and are so grateful that I have, And so that

0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of keeps me ticking over. I guess in a

0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.520
<v Speaker 1>way that I feel okay about it. It still sucks

0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:11.040
<v Speaker 1>sometimes when I think about, you know, I was a child,

0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:11.760
<v Speaker 1>I was young.

0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.360
<v Speaker 4>It didn't happen just you know once.

0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.040
<v Speaker 1>It happened more than a few times, and it was

0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.640
<v Speaker 1>from people close to me and my family. So that's

0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.200
<v Speaker 1>also a fucked thing to think that that breaks a

0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:26.520
<v Speaker 1>barrier within my own family relationships, right, And I'm so

0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.360
<v Speaker 1>glad that I have got the skills and the mentality

0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:33.280
<v Speaker 1>to sort of overcome that and keep pursuing and keep persisting.

0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.199
<v Speaker 1>But it also just it created a little bit of

0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.440
<v Speaker 1>a resentment, I guess in like an openness to have

0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.320
<v Speaker 1>sex and to have relationships. And I think it's also

0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.640
<v Speaker 1>been part of the biggest barrier I've had with the

0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.320
<v Speaker 1>relationships and sex combined, because you know, like you said,

0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:53.480
<v Speaker 1>the hand in hand. Yeah, And I think like the

0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 1>more I learn about myself and the more I sort

0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.440
<v Speaker 1>of don't blame myself and forgive myself and sort of

0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:04.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, use it as a like a fucking superpower,

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:05.920
<v Speaker 1>sometimes I'm like, fuck that.

0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:09.880
<v Speaker 4>It makes me feel a bit better.

0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess it doesn't take the scars away, but I

0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:18.840
<v Speaker 1>think like it makes them like hurt. Last I appreciate

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.120
<v Speaker 1>when people like say that it was a fucking shitty thing,

0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:22.960
<v Speaker 1>like I'm.

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 4>Like, yeah it was. For years, I was very silent

0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:27.120
<v Speaker 4>about it.

0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 3>What does a healthy relationship look like? To you? As

0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.160
<v Speaker 3>a therapist who have worked with many different relationships and couples,

0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.560
<v Speaker 3>you know, what does a healthy relationship look like? And

0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.560
<v Speaker 3>what does maybe a healthy conversation look like when it

0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:46.600
<v Speaker 3>comes to intimacy.

0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 2>I think for anyone, safety and respect within relationships and

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.520
<v Speaker 2>sexual relationships is incredibly important, But I think it is

0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.640
<v Speaker 2>so much more important if someone has had any sort

0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.200
<v Speaker 2>of experience where boundaries have been breach, Like create that

0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:04.080
<v Speaker 2>safe environment is so essential to build that trust and

0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.840
<v Speaker 2>that foundation in order to really be able to let

0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.680
<v Speaker 2>your walls down right. And sometimes depending on our past experiences,

0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.640
<v Speaker 2>I think we all have these ways of protecting ourselves

0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:20.080
<v Speaker 2>depending on our wounds. And so we have our individual wounds,

0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.280
<v Speaker 2>we all have our stuff, and then depending on what

0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.200
<v Speaker 2>those wounds are, we will create these kind of parts

0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.720
<v Speaker 2>of ourselves in order to protect ourselves and to and

0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:35.000
<v Speaker 2>so sometimes we have these parts that may seem somewhat dysfunctional,

0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.400
<v Speaker 2>but actually usually they're serving a function. It's just that

0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.240
<v Speaker 2>they're serving a protective function function. So often it's about

0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.240
<v Speaker 2>I think a really big part of creating a healthy

0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 2>relationship is reflecting upon what are my patterns and how

0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.320
<v Speaker 2>does my past influence how I show up in relationship

0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.160
<v Speaker 2>and engage with other people that patterns.

0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.720
<v Speaker 1>And I talk about this with my therapist quite a bit.

0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.120
<v Speaker 4>Like he's a.

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.640
<v Speaker 1>Man, he's also neurodivergent, but he's very he's amazing, Like

0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:05.440
<v Speaker 1>I love my therapist, and I think that's a really

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:09.000
<v Speaker 1>good relationship to have. But I realized like him being

0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 1>gay for me was like he's.

0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.120
<v Speaker 4>Not a threat. Yeah, he doesn't want me. He doesn't

0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:14.640
<v Speaker 4>want to fuck me.

0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:16.840
<v Speaker 1>And I know that sounds so stupid and quite like

0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.200
<v Speaker 1>humorous in this in a fucking stupid way, But that's

0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:21.880
<v Speaker 1>why I love him, because.

0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 3>He's even experience to what I would have as a.

0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.360
<v Speaker 1>It's a pattern I have because like most of my

0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.800
<v Speaker 1>best close friends are all queer, and I feel safe

0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.320
<v Speaker 1>within that community. I feel safe within that enviroment, which

0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.440
<v Speaker 1>kind of speaks a lot, and I'm working on that.

0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:40.120
<v Speaker 1>But also patterns are like I don't know when we

0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:44.400
<v Speaker 1>when I first saw him, like, he he made me like,

0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.640
<v Speaker 1>look out all of the relationships I've had family and

0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:52.720
<v Speaker 1>then also romantic and then my friendships, and how I

0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:54.680
<v Speaker 1>felt that they're you know, what would they think of me?

0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 1>Or and like what do they serve me? Like in

0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.520
<v Speaker 1>the relationship, Like all these like questions and cues that

0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.159
<v Speaker 1>I had and I noticed, like and that's when you

0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.919
<v Speaker 1>sort of notice the patterns of like my relationships like

0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.960
<v Speaker 1>and why they ended and why they started and the

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.399
<v Speaker 1>intensity of things, you know, when do they ever cross

0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:14.920
<v Speaker 1>a boundary?

0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 4>Do they ever make you feel like?

0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.800
<v Speaker 1>It was just so interesting And I think patterns is

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:24.480
<v Speaker 1>such a good way of like starting out to notice things.

0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:26.520
<v Speaker 4>Have you ever done this well?

0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.159
<v Speaker 3>I have. I definitely have patterns and habits that I

0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.640
<v Speaker 3>don't like think are positive in my life. I feel

0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:34.800
<v Speaker 3>like there are so many like things that I've not

0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.000
<v Speaker 3>when I was doing therapy. When I was in therapy,

0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.400
<v Speaker 3>I was definitely working on breaking a lot of patterns

0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 3>and habits, but also patterns in your partners, you know,

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.840
<v Speaker 3>understanding knowing that they can become quite predictable and understanding

0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 3>it's almost like you know what you're going to get

0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.359
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean, because like even with my

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.440
<v Speaker 3>partner now there, I know, I know certain patterns around

0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:00.240
<v Speaker 3>if we have conflict. I know that he hates a

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 3>discussion to find resolve quickly. He needs time. And so

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.200
<v Speaker 3>what I've noticed is every time I've gone in with

0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 3>a solution and gone, we should fix this right now,

0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.560
<v Speaker 3>give me a kiss and cuddle, let's get over this,

0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:16.840
<v Speaker 3>like trying to fix it straight away, he can't, Like

0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 3>he can't meet me there. He needs time. He needs

0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.640
<v Speaker 3>like at least a few hours of us not talking, Yeah,

0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.639
<v Speaker 3>for his emotions to come down, you know.

0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, processing time.

0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:27.840
<v Speaker 3>I know that about it.

0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:29.680
<v Speaker 1>You didn't really communicate our needs and wants.

0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.120
<v Speaker 4>It's the hardest, that's the thing.

0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:33.200
<v Speaker 3>I guess.

0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.800
<v Speaker 1>It's such a sometimes I don't even know what I

0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.200
<v Speaker 1>want though, And give me the time to like figure

0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:40.119
<v Speaker 1>that out. Yeah.

0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:44.080
<v Speaker 3>I think that it changes in relationship dynamics, you know. So,

0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:48.240
<v Speaker 3>like my sexual needs in my past are completely different

0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.480
<v Speaker 3>to what they are now. So it's like almost one

0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.520
<v Speaker 3>like a three sixty of the dynamic. So when I

0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.159
<v Speaker 3>was with Poor, everything sexual is completely different to what

0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 3>I have now, And in both moments, I am experiencing

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.200
<v Speaker 3>my needs so it's like it depends right on the dynamic.

0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.639
<v Speaker 2>The dynamic of the relationship influences the sexual dynamic and

0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:11.159
<v Speaker 2>vice versa. Because I think that's the thing, Like we

0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.800
<v Speaker 2>get needs met in different ways, and we will show

0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:19.320
<v Speaker 2>up differently according to the relationship that we're in, Like, yeah,

0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:22.160
<v Speaker 2>I think different relationships bring out different sides of us.

0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.200
<v Speaker 2>And I agreed, Yeah, it's really key.

0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.080
<v Speaker 1>When I'm with a woman, I'm differently different when I'm

0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:27.680
<v Speaker 1>with a man.

0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's a love being with a woman.

0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.760
<v Speaker 1>I think it's it's very comfortable, like it's very like

0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:38.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't yeah, I feel saf the man. I'm like, oh,

0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:40.200
<v Speaker 1>that's just like it's.

0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:40.760
<v Speaker 4>A bit clunkier.

0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.480
<v Speaker 3>I actually remember having a moment with my partner where

0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 3>I was like, I think that I get a different

0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 3>version of you than your ex Scott, and you get

0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.760
<v Speaker 3>a different version of me than my ex Scott, and

0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.680
<v Speaker 3>like us coming to the realization that we are both

0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.080
<v Speaker 3>like really good versions of ourselves in this relationship when

0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.080
<v Speaker 3>in our past we might have been like hiding parts

0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:04.160
<v Speaker 3>of ourselves or trying to be something else to please

0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.600
<v Speaker 3>the other person. I definitely know that was my experience,

0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.600
<v Speaker 3>so like I can definitely tell you know, when people say, oh,

0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:11.639
<v Speaker 3>your partner should bring out the best in you, I

0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.520
<v Speaker 3>feel like this relationship is the first one that yeah,

0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:16.160
<v Speaker 3>like we've both sort of met there.

0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think so, like I've seen a huge shift

0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:23.040
<v Speaker 1>in the last year or so. Yeah, Yeah, I want

0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:28.560
<v Speaker 1>to talk about dating apps, like, I find it's just

0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:30.919
<v Speaker 1>so transactional sometimes.

0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:32.520
<v Speaker 4>Do you feel like.

0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 1>The access that we have, like through dating apps is

0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.040
<v Speaker 1>not a problem, but do you think it's like causing

0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:48.040
<v Speaker 1>a very different mindset to how relationships establish.

0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:53.360
<v Speaker 2>I guess like, look, I think relationships are really helpful

0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.720
<v Speaker 2>in that they allow us to connect with one another,

0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:57.920
<v Speaker 2>and they allow us to connect with people that we

0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:00.960
<v Speaker 2>might not have previously been able to can with. But

0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.200
<v Speaker 2>I think the way that they've been set up, they're

0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.000
<v Speaker 2>not actually set up in order to help you determine

0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.000
<v Speaker 2>whether you can create a healthy relationship with someone. So

0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm a big believer in healthy relationships being a cocreation.

0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:15.239
<v Speaker 2>You create them together by the way that you show up,

0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:16.840
<v Speaker 2>by the way that you engage, by the way you

0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:20.040
<v Speaker 2>speak to one another, Like it's something that you choose

0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:24.000
<v Speaker 2>moment by moment, and there are certain things that need

0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.200
<v Speaker 2>to be really present. In order to create that regardless

0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:30.560
<v Speaker 2>of the relationship structure, you choose things like respect, things

0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:35.080
<v Speaker 2>like kindness, you know, like things like building trust. And

0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:37.440
<v Speaker 2>I think the challenge that I have with dating apps,

0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:38.639
<v Speaker 2>and this is what I hear from a lot of

0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:42.040
<v Speaker 2>people I work with as well, is that it's really

0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:45.560
<v Speaker 2>difficult to determine whether someone has these things on a

0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:47.680
<v Speaker 2>dating app, So you have to get off the dating

0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:51.240
<v Speaker 2>app in order to actually meet someone and form a connection.

0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.080
<v Speaker 2>But I think the secondary challenge I have with dating

0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:57.000
<v Speaker 2>apps is I think it's created a bit of a

0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:00.359
<v Speaker 2>throwaway culture where as soon as people go this is

0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.680
<v Speaker 2>a little bit hard, or this isn't perfect, I'm moving

0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:03.919
<v Speaker 2>on to.

0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Rest and the grass is greener. There's something shinier.

0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:09.680
<v Speaker 2>The grass is greener, There's something shinier. And I think

0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:11.680
<v Speaker 2>the reality for me is what I would say is

0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:17.080
<v Speaker 2>a relationship therapist is I remember my first class in

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.560
<v Speaker 2>like starting specializing relationships. The lecturers said to me, no

0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:23.920
<v Speaker 2>matter who you choose, any relationship will have a certain

0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:25.679
<v Speaker 2>set of issues that you have to be willing to

0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.520
<v Speaker 2>deal with for the life of the relationship. Yeah, to me,

0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:30.800
<v Speaker 2>all the time, And so there's always going to be

0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:32.760
<v Speaker 2>something right, Like, it's never going to be perfect. You're

0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:34.760
<v Speaker 2>going to have challenges, You're going to have arguments, But

0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:37.199
<v Speaker 2>can you respect each other throughout that?

0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:38.760
<v Speaker 4>Can you hold on to that love?

0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.399
<v Speaker 2>Can you work together to co create the environment that

0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:46.199
<v Speaker 2>you want to experience? And so I think the challenge

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:50.639
<v Speaker 2>with dating apps is I think people are maybe not

0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.359
<v Speaker 2>as willing to put in the work to create something

0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:57.080
<v Speaker 2>really wonderful because because there's something else so accessible, and

0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.200
<v Speaker 2>that there's this illusion that it it should it should

0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:02.960
<v Speaker 2>always be easy. And I think that's one of these

0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:05.359
<v Speaker 2>messages that we get it should always actly.

0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:07.680
<v Speaker 3>No, but like it shouldn't be hard.

0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:09.400
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, don't get me wrong.

0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:11.639
<v Speaker 3>The reason you ask me that is because of what

0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:12.640
<v Speaker 3>I said at the.

0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:13.720
<v Speaker 4>Start, that's right.

0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:17.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we had a big DNM. Yeah, and he what

0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:20.399
<v Speaker 1>you're pretty much saying is what he yeah saying.

0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:22.960
<v Speaker 3>Like for me, I've always been a relationship person. So

0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:26.480
<v Speaker 3>I'm someone who likes to like really work through stuff.

0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:30.440
<v Speaker 3>For instance, my previous relationship six years. The last two

0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:32.439
<v Speaker 3>years was me really trying to work through it, like

0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:34.280
<v Speaker 3>trying to get to a point where I thought, Okay,

0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:37.359
<v Speaker 3>it's either yes or no, like and so I'm someone

0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:40.840
<v Speaker 3>who like will make sure that every stone is turned

0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:43.440
<v Speaker 3>before I give up. You know, even with my relationship

0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:45.280
<v Speaker 3>now we've had we've been together a year, and there's

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:47.520
<v Speaker 3>been moments I'm like, oh, should I walk away? But

0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:49.439
<v Speaker 3>then I find just on the other side of the

0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:52.840
<v Speaker 3>hardness is the deep conversation that I need to understand

0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:55.879
<v Speaker 3>him more. Yeah, and then we get through it. You know,

0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:58.640
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. There's just something about not giving up

0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:01.959
<v Speaker 3>and then getting to the side of that moment that

0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:05.719
<v Speaker 3>can really create a like a deeper connection. And so

0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:09.320
<v Speaker 3>for me those moments of difficulty, I don't throw in

0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:11.000
<v Speaker 3>the tower. And I'm not saying you throw in the towel.

0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:15.639
<v Speaker 3>I'm just saying I'm I do. But but I think

0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:18.199
<v Speaker 3>that there is a culture out there where it's like

0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:22.120
<v Speaker 3>too hard basket, Yeah, they don't do. And I think

0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:24.680
<v Speaker 3>it's some people think it's self preservation. It probably is

0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:25.320
<v Speaker 3>for some people.

0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:28.200
<v Speaker 1>It is for me and moments, but then also there's

0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:31.560
<v Speaker 1>a thing of like it's not that it's not even

0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:34.600
<v Speaker 1>sometimes the them problem, it's a me problem because.

0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:37.080
<v Speaker 3>Or like do you think the grass is greener on

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:37.640
<v Speaker 3>the other side?

0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:41.440
<v Speaker 1>No, I know a standard and I think of what

0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:45.240
<v Speaker 1>I want, which I think is I want that, Like

0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:46.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna.

0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:46.560
<v Speaker 4>Say at all.

0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:50.080
<v Speaker 1>And they're all great people, like I'm still friends with

0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:52.560
<v Speaker 1>people that have dated this year blah blah blah, but

0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:56.159
<v Speaker 1>they've said things for like, you know, they've disrespected me

0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:58.800
<v Speaker 1>and said things like speak and round and I don't

0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:01.040
<v Speaker 1>agree with that language. So it's for me, it's not

0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:03.000
<v Speaker 1>a matter of like, oh, the grass is green. It's like, no,

0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:05.680
<v Speaker 1>you haven't done the work. Those words are offensive. I've

0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:08.920
<v Speaker 1>communicated that with you. You've said it again. No, So those

0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:12.159
<v Speaker 1>moments have been throughout this year, Like a few of

0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:14.600
<v Speaker 1>the guys that I've dated have all said those words,

0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:17.840
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, guys, we're on twenty twenty fucking four, Like,

0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:20.720
<v Speaker 1>if you haven't done the work for me, Like, if

0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:23.840
<v Speaker 1>you're still saying those things, you're not the type of

0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:25.640
<v Speaker 1>the person that I want to be with.

0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:28.040
<v Speaker 4>It's it's a value thing.

0:25:28.119 --> 0:25:29.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, do you think it's really about the word. It's

0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:31.840
<v Speaker 3>actually what you think is acceptable.

0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:34.200
<v Speaker 1>I agree, and I find it offensive and I feel

0:25:34.240 --> 0:25:37.119
<v Speaker 1>offended by it because I've been called that many times

0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:40.840
<v Speaker 1>and I've communicated those things. I've learned to communicate that's

0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:43.040
<v Speaker 1>the thing. I'm like, look and I'm okay with like

0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:46.040
<v Speaker 1>after the first day, being like, look, it didn't really work,

0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:50.600
<v Speaker 1>Like let's move on, Like you're a really lovely person.

0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:53.320
<v Speaker 1>And I'm still like I said, I'm still friends with

0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:54.560
<v Speaker 1>most of the people I've gone on dates.

0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:57.480
<v Speaker 3>But the opposite, I'm such a people pleaser that I'm like,

0:25:57.560 --> 0:25:59.719
<v Speaker 3>you know what, Like I think that I'm the opposite

0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:03.520
<v Speaker 3>end of the spectrum, Like even if i'm too, well,

0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:04.639
<v Speaker 3>we can probably get through it.

0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:07.800
<v Speaker 1>Like, yeah, there is one recent one though, Like the

0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:09.960
<v Speaker 1>guy left me in the restaurant and I would never

0:26:10.000 --> 0:26:13.040
<v Speaker 1>speak to him again, Like that is a total disrespect

0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:16.600
<v Speaker 1>And that is exactly And I just think you have

0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:18.760
<v Speaker 1>not done the work. You would never do that to

0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:21.240
<v Speaker 1>your mum or someone else that you respect, so you

0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:24.400
<v Speaker 1>clearly do not respect me. So like yeah, so that's

0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:27.040
<v Speaker 1>where I draw a line. And it's a hard, hard,

0:26:27.119 --> 0:26:28.240
<v Speaker 1>known hard out for me.

0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Authenticity is key, right, like you showing up authentically and

0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:33.960
<v Speaker 2>then being able to go, okay, well, this is who

0:26:33.960 --> 0:26:36.800
<v Speaker 2>I am. I like, and I think the more authentic

0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:38.680
<v Speaker 2>we can be in the dating process, the more likely

0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:39.600
<v Speaker 2>we are to meet someone.

0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:42.080
<v Speaker 4>To meet someone on the same and came.

0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:45.600
<v Speaker 2>Like when you when inclusivity is like a core thing

0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:48.080
<v Speaker 2>for you, like it is for me, Like inclusivity is

0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:50.600
<v Speaker 2>very important to me. If you know, I were to

0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:52.679
<v Speaker 2>be in an experience where I were with someone that

0:26:52.960 --> 0:26:56.480
<v Speaker 2>wasn't inclusive, that wasn't aware, that would be a value misalignment.

0:26:56.920 --> 0:27:01.040
<v Speaker 2>And so it's understanding ourselves better and understand how we

0:27:01.080 --> 0:27:03.040
<v Speaker 2>can show up in an authentic way, because the more

0:27:03.040 --> 0:27:05.359
<v Speaker 2>authentic we can be, the more likely we are to

0:27:05.400 --> 0:27:06.879
<v Speaker 2>meet someone that's a good match.

0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:07.440
<v Speaker 4>Right exactly.

0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:10.240
<v Speaker 2>So it's really it's about knowing yourself. And I think

0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:11.040
<v Speaker 2>it's also.

0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:13.719
<v Speaker 1>About just beside the day I reckon too. You have

0:27:13.760 --> 0:27:15.080
<v Speaker 1>to go out and you have.

0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:15.520
<v Speaker 2>To meet people.

0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:18.119
<v Speaker 3>You have that you do you know, I haven't. I

0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:21.399
<v Speaker 3>just don't have that experience. I've actually never been on

0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:25.640
<v Speaker 3>one date in my life, my whole years old. Yeah,

0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:28.800
<v Speaker 3>it's like I just don't have that, and.

0:27:28.800 --> 0:27:30.359
<v Speaker 4>I think it's sweet and I love it.

0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:32.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean I've been on three dating shows and I've

0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:34.480
<v Speaker 1>been on a numerous hundreds of dates.

0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:38.320
<v Speaker 3>Maybe I should No, this is just going down the

0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:42.439
<v Speaker 3>wrong date. But not for like, because I'm not in

0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:44.879
<v Speaker 3>an open relationship. But dating could be fun if you

0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:47.680
<v Speaker 3>just wanted to like experience people.

0:27:48.000 --> 0:27:50.280
<v Speaker 4>Can we have you back on again? Because I would.

0:27:50.440 --> 0:27:51.919
<v Speaker 4>I feel like I want to.

0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:53.960
<v Speaker 1>This is like just a part one, I feel like

0:27:54.160 --> 0:27:56.479
<v Speaker 1>because I would love that. I feel like there's so

0:27:56.560 --> 0:28:00.919
<v Speaker 1>much more because I want to talk about like things

0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:01.640
<v Speaker 1>like nose.

0:28:01.480 --> 0:28:02.960
<v Speaker 3>And dots yeah.

0:28:04.960 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 2>And like no that is yah, and domes green and

0:28:11.080 --> 0:28:12.040
<v Speaker 2>red flags all that.

0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:14.400
<v Speaker 4>Quick fire.

0:28:14.480 --> 0:28:16.359
<v Speaker 1>I feel like our listeners, if you are listening, I

0:28:16.400 --> 0:28:18.119
<v Speaker 1>feel like you guys would love it, like I feel

0:28:18.160 --> 0:28:21.879
<v Speaker 1>like they would. I think this is like such a

0:28:21.920 --> 0:28:24.240
<v Speaker 1>common thing with my girl group at the moment as well,

0:28:24.320 --> 0:28:26.600
<v Speaker 1>Like well, girl group, but half of them it goes

0:28:27.000 --> 0:28:32.760
<v Speaker 1>like but we all are feeling like the same vibes.

0:28:33.280 --> 0:28:36.000
<v Speaker 2>And I think, look, it is changing across the board,

0:28:36.080 --> 0:28:38.760
<v Speaker 2>whether you're dating men, whether you're dating women who regardless

0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:41.720
<v Speaker 2>of who you're dating, you know, I think being a

0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:45.440
<v Speaker 2>queer woman, I've had various experiences in dating. Plus I

0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:49.320
<v Speaker 2>work in this space, and I think when it comes

0:28:49.320 --> 0:28:51.560
<v Speaker 2>to relationships and when it comes to sex, there are

0:28:51.600 --> 0:28:55.240
<v Speaker 2>certain things that transcend gender. There are certain things that

0:28:55.320 --> 0:28:57.920
<v Speaker 2>transcend sexuality, and these are the things that we really

0:28:58.000 --> 0:28:59.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of need to talk about, Like how do you

0:28:59.440 --> 0:29:02.560
<v Speaker 2>build and sus stay in healthy connections, healthy sexual relationships.

0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:05.280
<v Speaker 2>If you're someone that is interested in sex, you know,

0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:07.080
<v Speaker 2>how can we do that in a way that is

0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:10.960
<v Speaker 2>really like inclusive and authentic. I wrote a book which

0:29:10.960 --> 0:29:12.040
<v Speaker 2>is coming out early next.

0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:16.760
<v Speaker 5>Year, Well let's be in alignment with Yeah, that'd be great,

0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:18.480
<v Speaker 5>But like, I did it for this reason because I

0:29:18.480 --> 0:29:22.600
<v Speaker 5>think one of the biggest challenges I face is that

0:29:23.080 --> 0:29:25.040
<v Speaker 5>most of and I guess this comes back to social media,

0:29:25.120 --> 0:29:27.200
<v Speaker 5>most of the information on dating I see in social

0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:28.480
<v Speaker 5>media is very heteronormative.

0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Most of the books on relationships and sex are heteronormative,

0:29:32.640 --> 0:29:37.000
<v Speaker 2>and so it can feel very non inclusive for people

0:29:37.040 --> 0:29:38.000
<v Speaker 2>within the queer community.

0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:39.320
<v Speaker 4>That's not my experience.

0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:41.520
<v Speaker 2>For me, I was like reading all these books and

0:29:41.560 --> 0:29:44.920
<v Speaker 2>like doing my education, I'm like, I'm not here, you know,

0:29:45.000 --> 0:29:47.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm not actually in this. I'm not represented in this

0:29:47.360 --> 0:29:48.880
<v Speaker 2>when I was studying, when I was doing a lot

0:29:48.920 --> 0:29:50.920
<v Speaker 2>of this stuff. So that was kind of why I

0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:53.840
<v Speaker 2>decided to write a book that could be inclusive and

0:29:53.880 --> 0:29:58.960
<v Speaker 2>just focused on skills, stools, and strategies for anyone. So yeah,

0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:02.320
<v Speaker 2>I definitely think maybe having that same conversation about dos and.

0:30:02.280 --> 0:30:02.960
<v Speaker 4>Don't or green.

0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:05.400
<v Speaker 2>I would love that any anything, like, I mean, look,

0:30:05.400 --> 0:30:07.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm always up for talking about dating, relationships and sex.

0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:09.280
<v Speaker 2>I do it all day long. It's my favorite thing

0:30:09.320 --> 0:30:09.560
<v Speaker 2>to do.

0:30:09.800 --> 0:30:13.200
<v Speaker 3>So if they wanted to connect with you, yeah, yeah,

0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:13.800
<v Speaker 3>how do they do that?

0:30:13.880 --> 0:30:14.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:17.160
<v Speaker 2>Instagram? Okay great, Yeah, so it's just my name Lucille

0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:19.840
<v Speaker 2>dot Shackleton and I post a lot of just like

0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:23.440
<v Speaker 2>like an education on there about dating relationships stuff like that.

0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:24.280
<v Speaker 4>Amazing.

0:30:24.360 --> 0:30:26.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I could talk to you all day.

0:30:26.520 --> 0:30:29.760
<v Speaker 3>Ready when the book January January? Great?

0:30:30.040 --> 0:30:33.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, okay, and what can we know the book name?

0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:36.520
<v Speaker 4>Well, it's called all in All in love that yeah.

0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:39.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank you so much for your time today. Look,

0:30:39.720 --> 0:30:42.040
<v Speaker 3>we are getting the wrap up from our teams all right,

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:43.640
<v Speaker 3>but that's all we have time for. Thank you so

0:30:43.720 --> 0:30:45.719
<v Speaker 3>much for listening to First things first, if you love

0:30:45.760 --> 0:30:47.760
<v Speaker 3>what you're here, leave us a little rating, rror review,

0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:48.880
<v Speaker 3>And if.

0:30:48.680 --> 0:30:51.000
<v Speaker 1>You want us to cover anything on the podcast, actually,

0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:54.040
<v Speaker 1>if you want to write in your questions you see you,

0:30:54.200 --> 0:30:56.800
<v Speaker 1>we'll have them ready to go in January. I know

0:30:56.840 --> 0:30:58.200
<v Speaker 1>that seems like a bit of a while where but

0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:00.880
<v Speaker 1>it will go so far or we could even like

0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:02.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, cover it sooner.

0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:05.720
<v Speaker 4>Who knows my handle is at brook dot Bluton.

0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:09.280
<v Speaker 1>Lucille is at Lucille dot Shackleton, and Maddie's at It's

0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:11.520
<v Speaker 1>Maddie Mills and we'll see on the next episode, right,