1 00:00:03,990 --> 00:00:06,689 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,690 --> 00:00:09,450 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. In the wake of the pandemic and as prices 3 00:00:09,450 --> 00:00:12,750 Sean Aylmer: rise, consumers are making different choices about how they spend 4 00:00:12,750 --> 00:00:15,990 Sean Aylmer: their money. In short, they're being inconsistent as they try 5 00:00:15,990 --> 00:00:20,280 Sean Aylmer: to reconcile their personal values with practical realities, things like 6 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,639 Sean Aylmer: price hikes and supply chain problems. What's this mean then 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,120 Sean Aylmer: for businesses who think they understand who their customers are and 8 00:00:27,660 --> 00:00:31,170 Sean Aylmer: what they're looking for? Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa is 9 00:00:31,170 --> 00:00:35,100 Sean Aylmer: one of Accenture's global executives, the Senior Managing Director, Strategy 10 00:00:35,100 --> 00:00:38,699 Sean Aylmer: and Consulting, Customer Sales and Service. He's in Australia for 11 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:41,040 Sean Aylmer: a short time this week and joins me this morning. 12 00:00:41,580 --> 00:00:43,050 Sean Aylmer: Edwin, welcome to Fear and Greed. 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,180 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Hey. Hello, Sean. How are you doing? 14 00:00:45,630 --> 00:00:47,970 Sean Aylmer: Well, thank you. Now, you've written a report on these 15 00:00:47,970 --> 00:00:51,900 Sean Aylmer: changes in consumer behavior and why businesses need to adjust 16 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:55,170 Sean Aylmer: their approach. Let's start with the basics. Why have customers 17 00:00:55,170 --> 00:00:57,000 Sean Aylmer: changed the way they make decisions? 18 00:00:58,020 --> 00:01:01,050 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Yeah. I think it's been an evolution that we have 19 00:01:01,050 --> 00:01:04,860 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: seen over the last years through digital, and it's accelerated 20 00:01:05,010 --> 00:01:08,550 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: with COVID, of course, which all forced us into new 21 00:01:08,550 --> 00:01:12,000 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: habits, which were digital first and from- home and so 22 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,120 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: on. And now we are post- COVID, and so I 23 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,709 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: think the whole eCommerce space, the social media space, this 24 00:01:19,709 --> 00:01:23,520 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: whole COVID work- from- home thing has really changed lives 25 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,330 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: a lot and has really created all the paradigm shifts, 26 00:01:27,450 --> 00:01:29,190 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: new ways of thinking for people. 27 00:01:30,150 --> 00:01:33,990 Sean Aylmer: So it's not about going back to pre- COVID ways 28 00:01:33,990 --> 00:01:36,510 Sean Aylmer: of thinking about consumer behavior? 29 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,690 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: No, not at all. Now of course, we go back 30 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,680 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: some extent, of course. There's the revenge spending and revenge 31 00:01:43,830 --> 00:01:47,009 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: holidays and so on, and we do see a little 32 00:01:47,010 --> 00:01:50,010 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: bit of go back to office. But I think we 33 00:01:50,010 --> 00:01:53,820 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: are finding a new balance because we all understood that there 34 00:01:53,940 --> 00:01:56,790 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: are things we could do differently. We were just never 35 00:01:56,790 --> 00:02:00,480 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: allowed, or forced, or allowed to discover how to do 36 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,210 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: these things. And so I don't think we'll go back. 37 00:02:03,540 --> 00:02:05,941 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: We're in a new era, really, right now. 38 00:02:05,941 --> 00:02:08,790 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Are businesses ready for that? 39 00:02:09,690 --> 00:02:14,820 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Not yet. The paradox is that every business is confronted 40 00:02:14,820 --> 00:02:18,540 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: with the same thing inside with the employees, but they 41 00:02:18,540 --> 00:02:23,130 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: haven't really internalized it in terms of understanding the change 42 00:02:23,130 --> 00:02:25,889 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: in behavior of their customers. And like you say, it's 43 00:02:25,889 --> 00:02:30,690 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: often paradoxical, because the typical paradoxes that were always there 44 00:02:31,020 --> 00:02:35,520 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: in our behavior. We are not, let's say, always very 45 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,490 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: consequential and systematical in what we do. We are, at 46 00:02:38,490 --> 00:02:40,410 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: the end of the day, human beings. All of that 47 00:02:40,410 --> 00:02:42,930 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: was never really an issue or a problem from a 48 00:02:42,930 --> 00:02:48,810 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: marketing communications perspective. But now, I think the wide range 49 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,840 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: of options that we have in how we conduct ourselves 50 00:02:52,380 --> 00:02:55,920 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: has become so wide. That really is very impactful in 51 00:02:56,580 --> 00:02:58,919 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: how we respond to brands and products. 52 00:02:59,550 --> 00:03:03,630 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So how should a business start thinking about this? 53 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,429 Sean Aylmer: If you, at one point, were marketing to a marketing 54 00:03:08,430 --> 00:03:12,690 Sean Aylmer: brand and there's 30 behaviors you're thinking about, suddenly you're 55 00:03:12,690 --> 00:03:15,840 Sean Aylmer: looking at 60 behaviors that you need to consider. How 56 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:16,710 Sean Aylmer: do you think about that? 57 00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:19,590 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Yeah, exactly. And by the way, we see that in the 58 00:03:19,590 --> 00:03:24,270 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: surveys we've done of companies pre- COVID, during COVID, and post-COVID. We 59 00:03:24,270 --> 00:03:29,609 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: saw this huge change where 70% of something of customers 60 00:03:29,610 --> 00:03:33,089 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: say that they feel that companies don't understand them anymore. 61 00:03:33,630 --> 00:03:36,990 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: And about 80% of companies say that they feel their 62 00:03:36,990 --> 00:03:41,280 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: customers are shifting. It's like shifting sand, and so they 63 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,160 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: don't know how to respond. And the customers are evolving 64 00:03:44,190 --> 00:03:46,740 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: because it's not a static thing. They're evolving faster than 65 00:03:46,740 --> 00:03:51,030 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: the companies can respond. But where that comes from is 66 00:03:51,030 --> 00:03:54,300 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: that we used to think of customers in very simplistic 67 00:03:54,300 --> 00:03:57,330 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: terms, in terms of simple personas that had a bunch 68 00:03:57,330 --> 00:03:59,880 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: of characteristics. And if you have 30, that's already very 69 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,870 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: sophisticated. But it was very static. It was an analysis 70 00:04:03,870 --> 00:04:05,820 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: and you would update that every few years and that 71 00:04:05,820 --> 00:04:08,310 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: was about it. And you put every customer in a 72 00:04:08,310 --> 00:04:11,730 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: box, in one of those boxes, and that was it. But people 73 00:04:11,730 --> 00:04:15,930 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: are not like that. Who would've thought? People are much 74 00:04:15,930 --> 00:04:21,029 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: more complex and sophisticated. But now, modern technology and the 75 00:04:21,029 --> 00:04:24,330 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: modern fast way of life and the pace at which 76 00:04:24,330 --> 00:04:28,230 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: things change mean that the way people evolve and respond 77 00:04:28,230 --> 00:04:30,000 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: at each point in time during the day or the 78 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,089 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: week is very, very different from how it used to 79 00:04:33,089 --> 00:04:36,720 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: be. And so companies need to understand that dynamic. So 80 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,690 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: what we say now is that people are a combination 81 00:04:39,690 --> 00:04:45,210 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: of a set of personas, maybe five or something, and 82 00:04:45,210 --> 00:04:49,920 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: we are all like that multifaceted person, and we are a constant 83 00:04:49,950 --> 00:04:53,940 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: evolving dynamic of those personas. So I'm very different on 84 00:04:53,940 --> 00:04:56,940 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Monday morning than on Friday evening, and depending on the 85 00:04:56,940 --> 00:05:00,300 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: context that I'm in. And so companies need to understand 86 00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:03,360 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: our dynamic so that they know who are we really 87 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,060 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: talking to. At that what point in time, which personas 88 00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:09,239 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: or combination of personas is more important at that point 89 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,880 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: in time? So what is the point from which the 90 00:05:11,910 --> 00:05:16,049 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: customer is listening to the communication I'm giving them, all 91 00:05:16,050 --> 00:05:17,670 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: right? And that's what they need to learn. 92 00:05:18,420 --> 00:05:24,240 Sean Aylmer: So, how? Is it about customer service? Is it about 93 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,690 Sean Aylmer: just understanding that some customers on a Monday want to 94 00:05:27,690 --> 00:05:32,850 Sean Aylmer: buy locally and on a Friday they want to buy sustainable products? How? 95 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,410 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Yeah. You could see that this becomes about data. You 96 00:05:37,410 --> 00:05:39,600 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: can't just do a simple analysis and have a few 97 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,849 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: focus groups and be done with it. And then there are 98 00:05:42,510 --> 00:05:45,630 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: also pictures on the wall of some stereotypical personas. So 99 00:05:45,630 --> 00:05:48,719 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: you really need to understand much more deeply, and that 100 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,710 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: you probably will do to investigating how customers work with 101 00:05:52,710 --> 00:05:55,830 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: you as a brand, voice of the customer on steroids, 102 00:05:55,830 --> 00:05:58,530 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: I would say, but also external data that you get 103 00:05:58,890 --> 00:06:01,529 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: and much more deeper surveys and research so that you 104 00:06:01,529 --> 00:06:05,640 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: can really see what are all these multi- facets of 105 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,339 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: customers. And then there's this thing which we call life 106 00:06:08,339 --> 00:06:12,420 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: centricity, which is, it's not just that customer. No, it's the 107 00:06:12,420 --> 00:06:15,000 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: life of that customer day to day, but also the 108 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,910 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: cycles, week to week and month to month. And it's 109 00:06:17,910 --> 00:06:20,100 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: also not just life stages like, " Oh, now they're going 110 00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:22,620 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: to be having kids and now they're going to need 111 00:06:22,620 --> 00:06:24,120 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: a house and now they're going to be empty nesters." 112 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,720 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: It's really all the different cycles, so there's a lot 113 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,779 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: more modeling to do, a lot more understanding. And once 114 00:06:30,779 --> 00:06:33,060 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: you have that, then you need to try and sense 115 00:06:33,660 --> 00:06:37,530 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: when you are in contact with that individual, where are they at at that 116 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:40,170 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: point in time so that you can respond in the 117 00:06:40,170 --> 00:06:40,650 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: right way. 118 00:06:41,190 --> 00:06:43,110 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Edwin, we'll be back in a minute. 119 00:06:49,770 --> 00:06:52,440 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa 120 00:06:52,650 --> 00:06:56,729 Sean Aylmer: from Accenture. Fundamentally, this is actually about customer service though 121 00:06:56,730 --> 00:06:57,750 Sean Aylmer: isn't it, what you're talking about? 122 00:06:57,990 --> 00:07:02,010 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Customer service, but what we see is that service used 123 00:07:02,010 --> 00:07:05,070 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: to be something that happened as an afterthought after the 124 00:07:05,070 --> 00:07:08,700 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: sales had been done. And frankly, companies would have preferred 125 00:07:08,700 --> 00:07:11,910 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: that the customers just went away and maybe come back 126 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,700 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: for another sale to buy something, but not for service 127 00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:20,010 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: because that was just nuisance, noise, and therefore, cost. But 128 00:07:20,010 --> 00:07:22,140 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: what we now see is that we are not anymore 129 00:07:22,140 --> 00:07:26,280 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: in this classic funnel that's a linear funnel for buying 130 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:27,870 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: something and then a bit of service at the end, 131 00:07:28,110 --> 00:07:31,470 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: but we are in a constant interaction cycle with brands. 132 00:07:31,470 --> 00:07:35,970 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: And so that implies advice and communication and engagement throughout 133 00:07:35,970 --> 00:07:38,220 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: the cycle, on and on and on and on. And 134 00:07:38,220 --> 00:07:40,200 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: all these things happen at the same time. And that 135 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,860 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: means therefore that the service element is an element that 136 00:07:43,860 --> 00:07:47,280 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: happens all throughout the cycle, the whole life cycle of 137 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,760 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: engagement of the customer. And so it's a totally different 138 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:51,900 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: way of looking at service. 139 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,900 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. It's not necessarily a cost as such. The way 140 00:07:54,900 --> 00:07:57,090 Sean Aylmer: you are describing there, it's not really a cost center. 141 00:07:57,630 --> 00:08:01,890 Sean Aylmer: It's more as a selling another product, a growth driver. 142 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,430 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Yeah, exactly. It was seen as a cost center because 143 00:08:05,430 --> 00:08:07,170 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: it was seen as something we didn't want to do, 144 00:08:07,170 --> 00:08:09,690 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: really. We wanted the customer to just go away and leave us 145 00:08:09,690 --> 00:08:14,820 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: alone, frankly speaking. So everything was about reducing calls directed 146 00:08:14,820 --> 00:08:18,600 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: to IVR, frequently asked questions, do it yourself on the 147 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,680 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: app and things like that. But really, what companies did 148 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:27,090 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: was they offloaded the complexity of their products and how 149 00:08:27,090 --> 00:08:28,830 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: things worked and the problems that you could have for 150 00:08:28,830 --> 00:08:32,760 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: them onto the customer to solve it yourself. Whereas now, 151 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,670 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: what we're saying is no, you need to constantly engage. 152 00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:37,320 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: There are so many ways in which you can help 153 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,679 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: your customers maximize the usage of your products in which 154 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,440 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: you can predict the problems that they may have. And 155 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,290 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: rather than wait until that happens and direct them to 156 00:08:46,350 --> 00:08:49,680 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: frequently asked questions, you can maybe reach out to them 157 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,870 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: and you can proactively make sure that things will go 158 00:08:51,870 --> 00:08:53,910 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: well. And then the customer will not see it as 159 00:08:53,910 --> 00:08:56,130 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: a problem because the problem hasn't occurred yet. They will think, " 160 00:08:56,309 --> 00:08:58,350 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Oh wow, look at the service I'm getting. This is 161 00:08:58,350 --> 00:08:59,040 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: really amazing." 162 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,000 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. It must engender loyalty, when a customer thinks that 163 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,830 Sean Aylmer: a business is communicating honestly. 164 00:09:04,890 --> 00:09:08,790 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Precisely. Classic loyalty has been dead for years, and switching 165 00:09:08,790 --> 00:09:10,949 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: is so easy. We all just go wherever we want 166 00:09:10,950 --> 00:09:14,699 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: to go. But we come back to the brands that 167 00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:17,640 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: we can trust, because from the communication of the brand 168 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:22,290 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: onwards, everything's consistent and I'm getting a great experience, all right? 169 00:09:22,290 --> 00:09:22,559 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 170 00:09:22,860 --> 00:09:25,380 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Time after time after time. So why do I come 171 00:09:25,380 --> 00:09:29,309 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: back? There's no sense of misplaced loyalty here. It's simply 172 00:09:29,309 --> 00:09:32,939 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: because I trust that the promise will be kept, and 173 00:09:32,940 --> 00:09:35,190 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: that I'm going to get what I hoped that I 174 00:09:35,190 --> 00:09:36,990 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: was going to get, and it's of great value to 175 00:09:36,990 --> 00:09:39,600 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: me. And that's a very new way of doing loyalty. 176 00:09:40,020 --> 00:09:42,179 Sean Aylmer: Have you seen companies that are doing this really well? 177 00:09:43,140 --> 00:09:45,179 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Well, there's a number of companies that are doing this 178 00:09:45,179 --> 00:09:49,230 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: well, both in and actually even pure product, fast- moving 179 00:09:49,230 --> 00:09:51,720 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: consumer goods companies that you would otherwise think that they 180 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,070 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: would just work with shelves, like a physical or digital 181 00:09:56,070 --> 00:09:58,890 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: shelf space, and then it was all just about getting 182 00:09:58,890 --> 00:10:01,349 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: you to look at that shelf and take products, but 183 00:10:01,350 --> 00:10:05,550 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: that are now having a complete cycle of engagement with 184 00:10:05,550 --> 00:10:11,280 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: you, including with influencers and other people and combining digital 185 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,569 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: with in- shop experience in all one integrated dialogue. An 186 00:10:15,570 --> 00:10:18,630 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: example that I could have is Sisheido, for example. It does that now really 187 00:10:18,630 --> 00:10:19,381 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: well as a pioneer in that. 188 00:10:19,381 --> 00:10:20,400 Sean Aylmer: Oh, Sisheido. Yeah. Yep. 189 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,819 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: But you would think that that would just be shelf 190 00:10:23,820 --> 00:10:27,420 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: stuff, no. Little boxes on the shelf. No, because that's 191 00:10:27,420 --> 00:10:29,910 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: not... The point is every time you do that well, 192 00:10:29,910 --> 00:10:31,530 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: you have to go back to the intent of the 193 00:10:31,530 --> 00:10:34,740 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: customer. The intent of the customer is not to pull 194 00:10:34,950 --> 00:10:38,220 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: a box with your product off a shelf. No. It's, 195 00:10:38,370 --> 00:10:41,550 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: for example, a Japanese young lady that goes to a 196 00:10:41,550 --> 00:10:44,400 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: party next week, and it's a tea party with a 197 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,880 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: specific ritual. What does she need for that? You can 198 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,100 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: engage in the dialogue on that, and then you can 199 00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:52,260 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: help or think about what she needs. And then in 200 00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:55,980 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: that broader context then, it's not even product placement really. 201 00:10:55,980 --> 00:11:00,089 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: It's really matching her needs and intent and everything that 202 00:11:00,090 --> 00:11:02,520 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: she feels important with a way in which you can 203 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,760 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: fulfill that. And then she will say, " Oh." For her, 204 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,660 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: it's a natural to use your product. It would even 205 00:11:09,660 --> 00:11:11,670 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: occur like buying of a product for her. 206 00:11:12,330 --> 00:11:18,510 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. You've talked about the life centricity of some of 207 00:11:18,510 --> 00:11:21,480 Sean Aylmer: these businesses. And I'm thinking of my own, I do 208 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,339 Sean Aylmer: a bit of running and there's a particular brand of 209 00:11:23,340 --> 00:11:24,570 Sean Aylmer: running shoe that I like to- 210 00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:24,691 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Oh, yeah. 211 00:11:24,691 --> 00:11:27,270 Sean Aylmer: ... that I like to use, and it's amazing how 212 00:11:27,270 --> 00:11:29,100 Sean Aylmer: much information they give me that I read that I'm 213 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:30,900 Sean Aylmer: interested in that's got nothing to do with my shoes. 214 00:11:31,230 --> 00:11:35,640 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: Exactly. And why? Because for you, it's not about the 215 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,580 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: shoes in the product sense of the way. It's because 216 00:11:38,580 --> 00:11:40,920 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: you want to do running and running means a lot 217 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,800 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: to you. And because you run a lot, there's a 218 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,829 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: lot of context for you around that. And then you 219 00:11:46,830 --> 00:11:50,700 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: find that those shoes that were normally just a way 220 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:52,710 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: for you to protect your feet when they hit the 221 00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:57,179 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: ground, they are now suddenly an active part of your 222 00:11:57,179 --> 00:11:59,579 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: total experience, and they are giving you a lot of 223 00:11:59,580 --> 00:12:03,210 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: information. Nike, for example those are really well. But I 224 00:12:03,210 --> 00:12:06,480 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: remember the very first prototypes of that were not so 225 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,270 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: good. They were very technical and they were quite unusable. 226 00:12:09,570 --> 00:12:14,040 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: But Nike, like Spotify and companies like that, they know 227 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,660 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: how to take complex information, complex data about stuff you 228 00:12:18,660 --> 00:12:20,640 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: use. For example, all the music you listen to during 229 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,640 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: the year or something, and put that in some sort 230 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,660 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: of profile of yours where which you can just at 231 00:12:27,660 --> 00:12:31,560 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: a glance, you never have to study mathematics to understand 232 00:12:31,620 --> 00:12:34,980 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: the patterns and the profiles. And then you can compare 233 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:40,140 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: your music profile or your running profile with that of 234 00:12:40,140 --> 00:12:44,130 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: somebody else. And so you automatically get, too, different way 235 00:12:44,130 --> 00:12:47,760 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: of communicating with other people, other communities. And to something 236 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,319 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: you were also alluding to that we see with a 237 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,239 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: lot of our clients that do that well, you get 238 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:56,130 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: to product maximization. They automatically, you start using more features 239 00:12:56,610 --> 00:12:59,880 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: of the product, not because somebody's pushing you to do 240 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,189 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: that, but because you see the relevance of doing it. 241 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,710 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. I understand this in a big company sense. Is 242 00:13:07,710 --> 00:13:09,960 Sean Aylmer: it relevant for smaller businesses as well? 243 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,449 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: I think it is, but of course, everything is at a 244 00:13:12,450 --> 00:13:17,880 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: scale. But let's say that I'm a local florist. How 245 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,830 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: did that work? In the past I had my physical 246 00:13:19,830 --> 00:13:22,530 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: shop. I probably still do because I still need a 247 00:13:22,530 --> 00:13:24,660 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: place where I put all these pots with flowers that 248 00:13:24,660 --> 00:13:27,390 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: I'm going to use to make bouquets. So in that 249 00:13:27,390 --> 00:13:29,939 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: sense, there's still a function for a room like that 250 00:13:30,179 --> 00:13:33,210 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: with flowers, and maybe people could even come in, but 251 00:13:33,210 --> 00:13:35,220 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: I wouldn't even call that a shop anymore now. In 252 00:13:35,220 --> 00:13:37,380 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: the old days that was the shop, but I still 253 00:13:37,380 --> 00:13:41,790 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: need that facility. But to the Sisheido example, there are many 254 00:13:41,790 --> 00:13:44,940 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: reasons why you would want a bouquet. And the bouquets 255 00:13:44,940 --> 00:13:49,170 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: would be very different. So maybe I'm on Shopify, and 256 00:13:49,170 --> 00:13:52,920 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: maybe there, I offer all kinds of examples of how 257 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,910 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: I can make bouquets for you that really fit what 258 00:13:56,910 --> 00:13:59,790 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: your need is. And then customers can choose from there 259 00:13:59,790 --> 00:14:01,829 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: and they can dialogue with me and they say, " Yeah, 260 00:14:02,010 --> 00:14:03,780 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: I like that thing. It was a great idea. However, 261 00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:05,579 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: can I have a bit more orchids?" Or, " Can I 262 00:14:05,580 --> 00:14:07,860 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: have this or that?" And then we can do all 263 00:14:07,860 --> 00:14:10,500 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: online, and we can chat and I'll say, " Okay. Well, 264 00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:12,330 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: why don't you drop by in two hours and we'll 265 00:14:12,330 --> 00:14:14,910 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: have it ready for you?" This is just a new 266 00:14:14,910 --> 00:14:17,880 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: way of engaging which is using both physical and digital 267 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:23,910 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: and all these new channels in order to give people 268 00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:24,510 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: what they need. 269 00:14:25,170 --> 00:14:27,690 Sean Aylmer: Fascinating. Edwin, thank you very much for talking to Fear 270 00:14:27,690 --> 00:14:28,260 Sean Aylmer: and Greed. 271 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:29,730 Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa: It's my pleasure. 272 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,450 Sean Aylmer: That was Dr. Edwin Van der Ouderaa, Senior Managing Director, 273 00:14:33,450 --> 00:14:37,890 Sean Aylmer: Strategy and Consulting, Customer Sales and Service at Accenture. This 274 00:14:37,890 --> 00:14:40,350 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Remember, this information 275 00:14:40,350 --> 00:14:43,080 Sean Aylmer: is general in nature and you should seek professional advice 276 00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:46,290 Sean Aylmer: before making any investment decisions. Join us every morning for 277 00:14:46,290 --> 00:14:48,540 Sean Aylmer: the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular 278 00:14:48,540 --> 00:14:51,450 Sean Aylmer: business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.