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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Suan

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Speaker 1: alma As millions of Australian's approach for retirement, demand for

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Speaker 1: help is increasing, yet the number of financial advisors is declining.

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Speaker 1: It's creating a growing gap and super funds are stepping

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Speaker 1: up to play a bigger role in supporting members. Giakimo

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Speaker 1: Tarantalo is Manager Retirement Solutions at Unisuper, which is a

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Speaker 1: terrific supporter of this podcast. He joins me in the studio. Giakimo,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, good afternoon and thank you for the opportunity.

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Speaker 1: We are seeing huge numbers of baby boomers and beyond retiring.

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Speaker 1: How well is the system set up at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think let's put ourselves in the Australian shoes

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Speaker 2: at the moment. They come to us with simple questions

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Speaker 2: that have complex answers. How much do I need to retire?

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Speaker 2: How long is my money going to last? And we're

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Speaker 2: parties of a system that is a complex system and

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Speaker 2: its challenging to navigate for that appage Australian. And if

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Speaker 2: we take us if we zoom out and we look

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Speaker 2: at the economics, we have a supply and demand issue.

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Speaker 2: At a macro level, we have a wave of Australians

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Speaker 2: entering the retirement phase, but we only have sixteen thousand

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Speaker 2: financial advisors. We have three point six million Australians retiring

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Speaker 2: in the next ten years, and if we zoom in

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Speaker 2: on a UNISUPER perspective, we estimate one in six will

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Speaker 2: be retiring and one in five will actually be reaching

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Speaker 2: preservation age. For context, we have about ninety thousand members

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Speaker 2: who are over the age of sixty who haven't actually

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Speaker 2: retired yet. Now, of that wave, there's essentially three buckets.

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Speaker 2: We've got the highly affluent, high net wealth individuals who

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Speaker 2: are being served very well. We've got the mass market

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Speaker 2: who will be served with those low balances who will

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Speaker 2: be served by Social Security. But there remains a group

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Speaker 2: of Australians in the middle who are not being well

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Speaker 2: served at all, and we like to call this group

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Speaker 2: the missing middle. At UNISUPER, we actually define this cohort

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Speaker 2: as the Jennifer segment, and that is Jennifer is someone

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Speaker 2: who's a primary school teacher, about forty five fifty years

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Speaker 2: of age, two kids, divorced, is planning to retire with

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Speaker 2: about two hundred thousand. She's relying on Social Security and

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Speaker 2: is heavily in debt. This single income, she handles her

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Speaker 2: day to day expenses in planning up to retirement, but

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Speaker 2: she finds retirement extremely overwhelming. On the emotional side of things,

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Speaker 2: she thinks that she's left things too late. She's worried

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Speaker 2: about feeling judged, and she has this shame in terms

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Speaker 2: of that she doesn't know what she doesn't know. She

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Speaker 2: doesn't even know the right questions to ask. And it's

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Speaker 2: that cohort of member that actually arguably needs the most

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Speaker 2: help when it comes to retirement. And I don't think

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Speaker 2: we're serving those well enough.

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Speaker 1: Why do we have that cohort? I thought you were

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Speaker 1: talking about me, but then you said sort of mid forties,

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Speaker 1: and I sort of had to put myself out and

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Speaker 1: we went back to Jennifer. But let's talk about those

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Speaker 1: in the mid fifties as well. So I mean it

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Speaker 1: is that group who there is a sense of shame

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Speaker 1: in a sense we should have thought about this twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago. But I think that's okay. Why have we

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Speaker 1: not looked after that cohort? And you are the uni

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Speaker 1: serpers of the world doing that now? Or I mean,

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Speaker 1: because there were a legislative change in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years around the covenant retirement income covenant and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, which sort of encouraged a lot of this stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think again looking at that problem, that missing

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Speaker 1: middle of the people that need the most help. If

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Speaker 1: we look at those types of people and the issues

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Speaker 1: that we observe is that that missing middle does not

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Speaker 1: have the propensity or the willingness to pay for financial advice.

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Speaker 1: And they hear about financial advice and think that's too

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Speaker 1: expensive and that's not for me. And then if you

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Speaker 1: look at the financial advice system at the moment, it's

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Speaker 1: not geared to provide simple advice in a cost effective way.

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Speaker 1: And as I mentioned to you before, we have sixteen thousand

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Speaker 1: financial advisors, and if we buy our estimates, we actually

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Speaker 1: think there's only about nine thousand of those that are

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Speaker 1: actually client facing. And the analogy I like to use

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Speaker 1: is in Australia we have approximate one hundred and thirty

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Speaker 1: thousand doctors, and you'd argue that we actually have a

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Speaker 1: doctor shortage and that's only servicing the people that are

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Speaker 1: unweil need doctor assistance. You could argue that everybody moving

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Speaker 1: to retirement actually would benefit from some form of advice

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Speaker 1: or guidance or help. But we only have nine thousand

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Speaker 1: client facing advisors for three point six million members retiring,

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Speaker 1: so what's worked in the past won't necessarily work in

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Speaker 1: the future, just purely due to the sheer volume. And

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Speaker 1: when we think about what unisuper are doing to address

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Speaker 1: this problem is just actually playing an active role and

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Speaker 1: stepping up. I think there's always been a fear that

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Speaker 1: we're competing with financial advisors, but in fact that cohort,

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Speaker 1: that missing middle is not actually their target market. So

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Speaker 1: we've got to think of it as complementing the financial

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Speaker 1: advice system, not competing with it. So unisuper specifically, we're

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Speaker 1: taking a digital hybrid approach to this, where members will

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Speaker 1: go through a digital advice experience and work through the

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Speaker 1: questions that they have about their retirement. The digital OFVI

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Speaker 1: experience will provide answers to their questions and give some

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Speaker 1: kind of guidance on terms of what members could do

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Speaker 1: for their retirement, but leave the onus of the decision

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Speaker 1: making up to them. And this is where unisupers is

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Speaker 1: very well positioned, because if they're still unsure. We've got

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Speaker 1: this advice ecosystem that they can tap into. Unisuper specifically,

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Speaker 1: we own and operate our own AFSL. We have an

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Speaker 1: end to end service model in terms of general advice,

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Speaker 1: intrafund advice, as well as the full comprehensive advice side

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Speaker 1: of things. So we're set up to answer the members' questions.

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Speaker 1: We want them to go through this digital approach because

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Speaker 1: we don't have enough people, enough advisors to see every

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Speaker 1: single member, and most members who want those simple questions

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Speaker 1: answered can go through that digital approach, but they's still

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Speaker 1: that heavily reliance on that member seeing a human to

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Speaker 1: actually validate before they actually go ahead with doing what

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Speaker 1: they want to do. Stay with me, Jackomel, I want

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about support for a tie reason

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Speaker 1: after the break. We'll be back in a minute. I'm

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Speaker 1: speaking to Giakama Tarantola from Unisuper. You've talked before the

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Speaker 1: break a bit about what Uni Souper is doing. What

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Speaker 1: are the biggest concerns you hear from members.

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Speaker 2: I think the biggest concern is not knowing where to

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Speaker 2: start and understanding the nuances of the retirement system as

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Speaker 2: they're set up today. If we think about accumulation and

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Speaker 2: members going through their working life, decisions are made for them,

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Speaker 2: and accumulation just works. They tell their employer who their

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Speaker 2: super fund is, the money goes straight to the superfund.

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Speaker 2: If the member doesn't make a decision, the super fund

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Speaker 2: makes a decision for them, and everything just happens. But

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Speaker 2: when you come to retirement, you've actually got to start

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Speaker 2: making certain decisions and you actually have to take action

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Speaker 2: to move from the accumulation phase into the retirement phase.

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Speaker 2: We have an event coming up, an annual event that

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Speaker 2: we do which is called our pre Retirement Outlook where

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Speaker 2: we put on show unisuper specialties. We have our CEO,

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Speaker 2: our CIO and our financial advice team put on a

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Speaker 2: live sem for our pre retirees and it's coming up

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Speaker 2: in the middle of May. But we've asked them to

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Speaker 2: send in their questions in terms of what do they

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Speaker 2: want to get out of this, and again going back

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Speaker 2: to that earlier point, those simple questions have complex answers.

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Speaker 2: We're getting questions around how much do I really need?

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Speaker 2: Am I on track? Where will my income come from,

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Speaker 2: am I eligible for the age pension? How long will

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Speaker 2: my money last? What happens when I pass away? Do

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Speaker 2: I need to put money away for age care? And

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Speaker 2: the big one that really struck to me was who

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Speaker 2: can I ask for help? And I think that's where

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Speaker 2: the super funds are becoming an increase or playing an

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Speaker 2: increasing role, is that members have got that expectation that

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Speaker 2: they can go to a super fund and they will

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Speaker 2: help answer those questions. But again, they just don't know

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Speaker 2: where to start.

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Speaker 1: Okay, do most decent super funds are they in a

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Speaker 1: position to answer those questions?

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't say most. I think all super funds have

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Speaker 2: been really good at accumulating assets. And I think this

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Speaker 2: is why we have the regulatory scrutiny and the industry

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Speaker 2: focus on the retirement phase because we've been so good

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Speaker 2: at growing wealth and now we actually have to shift

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Speaker 2: from just having low fees and high returns to actually

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Speaker 2: enabling members to make those confident decisions about their retirement.

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Speaker 2: Where super funds are doing well and one of unisuper's

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Speaker 2: competitive strengths are our online calculators. So we have two

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Speaker 2: retirement calculators, and one is called the Retirement Savings Calculator,

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Speaker 2: which is for those pre retiree members to estimate their

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Speaker 2: balances at retirement and how much income that translates and

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Speaker 2: through retirement. And then we have a retirement income calculator,

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Speaker 2: which is for those who know their balance at retirement,

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Speaker 2: are actually at the point of making decisions for their

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Speaker 2: retirement and they can see how long their income will last.

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Speaker 2: We've set up these calculators to have the ability to

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Speaker 2: explore different market conditions, allocate a proportion of your super

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Speaker 2: two lifetime income streams, set up life stage goals, and

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Speaker 2: the way the calculators are set up. Before they put

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Speaker 2: in any information, we ask them what are their goals,

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Speaker 2: and the results are relative to their goals, not just

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Speaker 2: a number coming out of there. So we ask them

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Speaker 2: how much money do you want in retirement and they'll

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Speaker 2: say fifty thousand dollars, the results will be relative to

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Speaker 2: their target. What we then do is because we need

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Speaker 2: to put a focus on the members who are self directed. So,

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Speaker 2: going back to my earlier analogy, the people who are

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Speaker 2: getting financial or comprehensive full personal financial advice are very

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Speaker 2: well served. But there's a big proportion of members who

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Speaker 2: aren't getting that financial advice and we need to help them.

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Speaker 2: So what we do once they use the calculators, we

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Speaker 2: then link it to their online app and when they

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Speaker 2: log in online, and it's a seamless process where we

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Speaker 2: integrate their goals and results into their online account and

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Speaker 2: they can see some dynamic next best actions of what

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Speaker 2: they can do to actually improve their outcome for retirement.

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Speaker 2: So I was literally speaking to the painter who was

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Speaker 2: painting my house last week, and he's a small business owner,

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Speaker 2: and he's about fifty years old, and he rarely has

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Speaker 2: any SUPER at the moment because he hasn't had to

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Speaker 2: compulsory put it in there, and we're thinking about retirement

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Speaker 2: and what his options are, and we logged on on

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Speaker 2: our phone, we played with the calculator, and if we

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Speaker 2: were using his previous data, he contributed zero last year.

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Speaker 2: So when you project it forward, he's not going to

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Speaker 2: have enough SUPER. But I showed him if you say, well,

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Speaker 2: I plan on putting an extra hundred dollars a week

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Speaker 2: into my SUPER or an extra three hundred dollars a

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Speaker 2: week into my SUPER, he could see the difference in

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Speaker 2: what his potential balance at retirement would look like. And

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Speaker 2: it's such a useful tool to play with and see

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Speaker 2: what your different plans are and how those outcomes can

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Speaker 2: actually better your retirement.

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Speaker 1: Do people still want to leave money to the kids.

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Speaker 2: That's what we're seeing. So, going back earlier, what I

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Speaker 2: mentioned in terms of accumulation, everybody has a homogeneous goal

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Speaker 2: in terms of get my balance to be as high

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Speaker 2: as possible for when we move into retirement. It's all

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Speaker 2: relative to what their objectives are. We have some members

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Speaker 2: that want to spend it all and go caravaning around

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Speaker 2: Australia or traveling the world and leave nothing to their children.

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Speaker 1: You're talking my language, that's me.

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Speaker 2: Well, then you have the others who kind of like

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Speaker 2: my grandmother, an immigrant from Italy who literally saves money

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Speaker 2: on the government age pension. Yeah, because she wants to

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Speaker 2: leave everything to her children. So this is the challenge

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Speaker 2: with the difference between accumulation and retirement, is that you

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Speaker 2: need the member's preference in order to provide the right

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Speaker 2: advice for them. If you just go blanket and try

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Speaker 2: to give the same advice to everything to everyone, one

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Speaker 2: size doesn't fit all. It's all relative to their goals

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Speaker 2: and objectives. It's a good place to leave it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for talking to fear and greed,

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Speaker 1: No problem, Thank you. That was Giacomo Tarantalo Manager Retirement

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Speaker 1: Solutions at UNI Super. This is a Fear and Greed

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Speaker 1: business interview. Join us every morning for full episode of

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Speaker 1: Fear and Greed, a business needs for people who make

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Speaker 1: their own decisions. I'm sure I Elma enjoy your day