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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, December three, twenty twenty five. A senior Japanese diplomat,

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Speaker 1: Shingo Yamagami, has accused the Albanese government of failing to

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Speaker 1: offer public support for his country in the face of

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Speaker 1: a vicious Chinese campaign directed at new Japanese Prime Minister

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Speaker 1: Snai Takeichi. Yamagami says Canberra has failed to back Japan

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Speaker 1: as it stands up to Beijing over issues including Taiwan.

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Speaker 1: Finance Minister Katie Gallagher, who aggressively pursued the concept of

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Speaker 1: a liberal conspiracy to cover up the rape of Brittany Higgins,

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Speaker 1: has refused to say whether she accepts two courts rulings

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Speaker 1: that the conspiracy was fabricated. In today's episode, inside the

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Speaker 1: Fiery Parliamentary Hearings, exploring why the ABA government is spending

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars defending its actions in

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Speaker 1: the Higgins matter.

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Speaker 2: Let us know what we should be asking for.

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Speaker 1: No, that's not how it works. Senate estimates are fabulous.

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Speaker 1: Ministers and their departments are dragged in to answer questions

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Speaker 1: about whatever senators are curious about. It's where opposition and

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Speaker 1: minor party senators get to be annoying and pedantic.

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Speaker 3: I'm not telling you how to write your APDs, I.

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Speaker 1: Am what how about you just tell me? And government

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Speaker 1: ministers get to be grumpy and defensive. Right now, as

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Speaker 1: Parliament winds down for the year, ministers are puffing and

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Speaker 1: sighing their way through hearings before they can go home

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Speaker 1: for Christmas. This is Liberal Senator James Patterson trying to

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Speaker 1: get a rise out of Finance Minister Katie Gallagher on Tuesday.

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Speaker 3: Are you interested in the actual issue?

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Speaker 1: Yes, Patterson, so, I'm very interested. But I think this

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Speaker 1: is a real important Gallagher knows her way round a

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Speaker 1: Senate hearing. It was in this forum a few years

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Speaker 1: back when Labor was in opposition that Gallagher and Penny

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Speaker 1: Wong got to play the opposition part, grilling then Liberal

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Speaker 1: Senator Linda Reynolds about her role in the Brittney Higgins drama.

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Speaker 2: Senator Gallagher, I did answer your questions to the point

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Speaker 2: that you ground me to the ground and ended me.

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Speaker 1: Ended up in hospital. But I'm back.

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Speaker 2: I'm answering questions. I'm answering questions and I'm assisting.

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Speaker 1: Will you justage that we put you in hospitals. You

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Speaker 1: just said I put you in hospital, Senator Reynolds, Well, if.

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Speaker 4: So, you're order.

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Speaker 1: Senator Nobody.

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Speaker 5: Questions, nobody takes pleasure.

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Speaker 1: A few months earlier, a young Liberal staffer named Brittney

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Speaker 1: Higgins had publicly alleged she was raped in Linda Reynolds

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Speaker 1: part Eliament House office by one of her colleagues. We

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Speaker 1: now know that colleague was Bruce Laman. Higgins also alleged

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Speaker 1: in an interview with the Project that her assault had

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Speaker 1: been covered up by the government of the day. I

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Speaker 1: would try and raise it, and they would try and

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Speaker 1: bring it up.

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Speaker 2: Then it was always it always sort of came back

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Speaker 2: to sort of being a mere issue, and it says,

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Speaker 2: so you can't deal with it, then you can.

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Speaker 1: Leave labor back. Then used the Senate estimates process to

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Speaker 1: put the heat on Reynolds.

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Speaker 4: Here.

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Speaker 1: My final question, Senator Reynolds, was it your decision to

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Speaker 1: send miss Higgins to Perth for the duration of the

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Speaker 1: election campaign.

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Speaker 3: Senator Gallagher, again, that's also subject please investigation, how hangs

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Speaker 3: That was your final question, Senator Gallagher, that was beneath you.

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Speaker 1: This has become a sprawling legal saga to rival the

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Speaker 1: Epstein affair in the US, But in summary, this is

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Speaker 1: what's happened since then. Laman has been found by the

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Speaker 1: Federal Court to have raped Higgins on the balance of probabilities,

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Speaker 1: he's always denied it. Reynolds sued Higgins for defamation and won.

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Speaker 1: In both those proceedings, judges said there was no evidence

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Speaker 1: of any political conspiracy to cover up the rape. Reynolds

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Speaker 1: and her former chief of staff, Fiona Brown are suing

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Speaker 1: the Commonwealth. Brown's taking a fair work case, accusing the

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Speaker 1: government of breaching its obligations to her as an employee.

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Speaker 1: Brown has said she felt unsupported by Morrison and his office.

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Speaker 1: Reynolds is accusing the Commonwealth of breaching its duty to

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Speaker 1: act in her best interests when it paid Higgins a

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Speaker 1: two point four million dollar settlement. Reynolds is also demanding

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Speaker 1: answers from Parliament about why she was pursued by Gallagher

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Speaker 1: and Wong for something she's always denied, covering up the rape.

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Speaker 1: When asked about the conduct of Wong and Gallagher, Anthony

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Speaker 1: Albanesi last month said, this should your senators who led

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Speaker 1: the charm of a Liberal Party cover up over the

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Speaker 1: Higgins case, apologized to the Fernalds, well, that's not right.

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Speaker 4: I don't accept that characterization.

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Speaker 3: Don't you accept I don't accept.

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Speaker 1: I don't accept accept that.

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Speaker 4: I don't accept. I don't accept that characterization.

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Speaker 3: I don't accept that characterization.

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Speaker 1: On Monday, in the Senate, a Liberal senator named Anne Rustin,

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Speaker 1: in the Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee's Estimates

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Speaker 1: hearing ask Penny Wong.

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Speaker 2: This incident, does the Prime Minister accept the findings of

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Speaker 2: the Federal and Supreme Court of Western Australia.

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Speaker 4: Well, Senator, I will see if the Prime Minister has

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Speaker 4: anything to add to the answer that he gave on

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Speaker 4: the day in question.

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Speaker 1: Rustin kept asking.

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Speaker 4: The heart of this matter was a young woman who

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Speaker 4: a court found was raped in the office of a

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Speaker 4: Liberal minister, and I would hope we can all reflect

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Speaker 4: on the impact on her and as importantly all survivors

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Speaker 4: of sexual assault in this country. Now, I know there

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Speaker 4: are further legal proceedings in place which make it much

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Speaker 4: more difficult for us to comment further.

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Speaker 1: On Tuesday, Roston asked Katie Gallagher, who you just heard

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Speaker 1: being very robust in this same Estimates Forum, the same question.

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Speaker 1: Gallagher kept her eyes on the table, doodling with a

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Speaker 1: pencil while answering.

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Speaker 3: I'm aware of the court decision.

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Speaker 1: I'm aware of that reporting. I have read it.

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Speaker 2: Not a report, So, Minister, given that the findings of

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Speaker 2: two superior Australian courts found that there was no cover

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Speaker 2: up and no wrongdoing, will you now acknowledge that the

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Speaker 2: accusations made by you and members of your government of

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Speaker 2: a cover up were in fact unfounded.

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Speaker 3: Senator Austin, I have nothing further to say on this matter.

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Speaker 3: I have answered a number of questions and I spoke,

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Speaker 3: including directly from Senator Reynolds herself before she left the Senate,

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Speaker 3: and that that is on the record, and I have

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Speaker 3: nothing further to say coming up.

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Speaker 1: So why is the government engaging the country's most expensive

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Speaker 1: barristers to fight the claims by Reynolds and Brown? This

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Speaker 1: issue is a tricky one for the Liberal Party. Linda

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Speaker 1: Reynolds was, of course a Liberal politician, and the Liberal

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Speaker 1: led government was seriously damaged by Higgins allegations, which precipitated

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Speaker 1: street marches and some very awkward moments for the then

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister. You'd think the Liberals would now after two

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Speaker 1: court findings that there was no Liberal conspiracy to conceal

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Speaker 1: the rape, be going for the government's throat, strongly backing

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Speaker 1: Linda Reynolds. That's not the case, and there have been

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Speaker 1: discussions within Shadow Cabinet where sources have told The Australian

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Speaker 1: some of the opposition's most senior figures don't want a

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Speaker 1: full inquiry into the matter because they believe the former

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Speaker 1: government has quote too much to lose, and Ruston, however,

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Speaker 1: is a Liberal who is doggedly pursuing this matter. On Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: the Department of Finance put up one of its senior officials,

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Speaker 1: First Assistant Secretary Rachel Antne, to answer Rustin's questions about

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Speaker 1: why the Commonwealth has engaged some of Australia's most senior

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Speaker 1: barristers silks, including Justin Gleeson, Kate Eastman and Ruth Higgins,

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Speaker 1: and they're defending the Commonwealth against Reynolds and Brown. Rustin

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Speaker 1: repeatedly asked, and Antone repeatedly declined to answer exactly how

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Speaker 1: much they were charging.

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Speaker 5: The costs are commercially negotiated rates that are commercially confidential,

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Speaker 5: so their rates are commercially sensitive and we are under

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Speaker 5: obligation not to share those.

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Speaker 1: Antone said, barristers are engaged on the recommendation of solicitors,

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Speaker 1: taking into account issues like their expertise and whether they

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Speaker 1: are trauma informed.

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Speaker 2: The fake and malicious claims against Fiona Brown have quite

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Speaker 2: frankly ruined her life. She attempted suicide, she's had her

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Speaker 2: career ruined, and she's simply seeking justice. So I'm interested

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Speaker 2: to understand why the Department of Finance is spending hundreds

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Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars of taxpayers money fighting Miss Brown

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Speaker 2: with possibly the most expensive legal team in the country

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Speaker 2: at the moment. So what is the justification in terms

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Speaker 2: of your proportionate, appropriate, time sensitive, trauma informed approach that

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Speaker 2: you believe reflects the circumstance that I've just read out

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Speaker 2: about a person who quite frankly nearly lost her own

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Speaker 2: life at her own hands because of the circumstance of

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Speaker 2: her employment in this place.

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Speaker 5: Senator, you would appreciate that it's very difficult for us

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Speaker 5: to go into the detail of any individual set of circumstances,

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Speaker 5: especially when a matter is live. As I mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 5: there are many many things we cannot simply share, because

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Speaker 5: these processes of dispute resolution and court processes are sacrosanct

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Speaker 5: and we all have obligations to maintain confidentiality throughout them

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Speaker 5: and comply with court processes throughout them. So it is

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Speaker 5: very difficult for me to be able to give you

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Speaker 5: the level of detail that you're after today.

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Speaker 1: Fiona Brown's fair work case will be heard in April

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven. We're covering this story extensively at the

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Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot au and you can join our

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Speaker 1: subscribers right there