1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm sure 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: an Ailma. Today's interview is a little different. This is 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: about business class flights, it's about luxury hotels. It's about 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: building up frequent fly points using your business spending to 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: do it. Mark Dawes is the chief executive officer of 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: Reward Pay and joins me in the studio this morning. Mark, 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed. 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me give me the elevator pitch. Okay, 9 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: the elevator pitch. On Reward Pay is that what we 10 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: know is that there are literally hundreds of thousands of 11 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 2: small businesses that, when faced with having to make a 12 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: payment to whatever supply for whatever goods, typically want to 13 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 2: be able to use a credit card. And because of 14 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 2: the merchant fee being quite expensive for the supplier, you know, 15 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: if you look at a typical merchant fee that's say 16 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: two percent, you've got one hundred thousand dollars invoice, that's 17 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 2: a two thousand dollars charge that's literally going to come 18 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: off the bottom line in terms of the profitability for 19 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: that supplier. And what we worked out was that you know, 20 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 2: sure there's no value on the merchant side but on 21 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 2: the card member side, there's loads of value and the 22 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: card members really excited to be able to use their 23 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: credit card because they have the opportunity to get up 24 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: to fifty five days interest free credit which they can 25 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: use to fund their business. They've also got the ability 26 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: to earn credit card reward points and often for these businesses, 27 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: when they're earning their credit card reward points, the business 28 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 2: is helping them to earn them, but they're redeeming those 29 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 2: points for personal benefit. Yeah, so that in a nutshell 30 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: is what we do. 31 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: So just explain this. So I've got an MX card, yep, 32 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: how does reward pay fit into the MS card? 33 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 2: Yeah? So we are a merchant of American Express, right, 34 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 2: and so what happens is that customer comes to us 35 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: and we've got a portal that we built, and the 36 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: customer will first of all, go on go through the 37 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: registration process, enter their card into our digital wallet, and 38 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: then they'll go about setting up the various pays that 39 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: they want to make a payment to. And so you'll 40 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: set up a payee to either make a payment to 41 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: a bank account or to a b pay piller code. 42 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: And so what happens is that they come on. And 43 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: let's just say that you've got an invoice that's for 44 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: I don't know, fifty thousand dollars. You then go into 45 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: our platform, you process that payment, you hit pay, and 46 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: essentially what then happens is that you're making a payment 47 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: to reward pay. Because we're the merchant, we receive the 48 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: fund's next business day from American Express, and then at 49 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: about eleven thirty that next business day, we push those 50 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 2: funds out to whatever the nominated bank account is or 51 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 2: to whatever be pay biller code. 52 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: So what's the advantage to me in doing that and 53 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: going through reward pay as opposed to just paying with 54 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: my AMEX. 55 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 2: Well, a lot of the time with B to B payments, 56 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 2: they just won't accept a credit card, so there's no 57 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 2: option for you to use a credit card to be 58 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: able to do that. And with reward pay, what we're 59 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: doing is putting the power back in the card holder's hands, right. So, 60 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: and it's what we refer to as a bor initiated payment, 61 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 2: so a push payment as opposed to a pull payment 62 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 2: where the merchant's you know, and control of the payment. 63 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: They're saying, right, I'll process this payment, now you give 64 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: me your card details and I'll pull the money from 65 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: your card. So what's happening under our model is that 66 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: the card members under control, and it's the card member 67 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: who's to said what they want to pay and when 68 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: they want to pay. And by virtue of being in control, 69 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 2: they're also levied with the cost of being able to 70 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: process that payment as well. Right, and in return for 71 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: that cost, I eat the reward pay fee. They're getting 72 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: their benefits as I mentioned earlier, So they're getting the 73 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: up to fifty five days interest free credit, they're getting 74 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 2: their membership reward points in the case of American Express, 75 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: and they can also have the opportunity to elect to 76 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: earn Corners points as well in addition to the credit 77 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: card points. 78 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: Okay, how does reward pay make money? 79 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 2: So we essentially clip the ticket between American Express and 80 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: what our customers pay. So, you know, American Express love 81 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: what we do because we're a natural extension of sort 82 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: of growing their network right in a non traditional way. 83 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: We're taking them to places that they can't get to 84 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: on their own. So by virtue of that, they've said, Okay, well, 85 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: we're actually happy to give you a wholesale rate to 86 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: help us to get that coverage, and you know, because 87 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: you've got that wholesale rate, we leave a little bit 88 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: of money, only a little bit of money for reward 89 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: pay to then go on to make our living. 90 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: I can, so who's using you at the moment. 91 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 2: So typically our customers are small business customers, small to 92 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: medium enterprises. So the people that would use would pay 93 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: would typically be owner operated businesses where you might have 94 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: anywhere from one to say three owners in the business. 95 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: Sound like fear and Green here, you know, I'll show. 96 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 2: You how to sign up after the show. So yeah, 97 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,239 Speaker 2: it's typically sort of one to three owners. They really 98 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: try to put through whatever business spend they can so 99 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 2: that they can accumulate as many points as they can, 100 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: and some businesses choose to use those points for business 101 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 2: travel as their staff fly around the country or do 102 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: whatever they do. Some will elect to buy a bottle 103 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: of wine to give to an employee that's done a 104 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: good job. Others will just get into this mode of saying, 105 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 2: you know what, I love taking the family to Italy 106 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 2: every year, and there's ten of us, so you know, 107 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: I need to pump through whatever I can so that 108 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: I can actually fly the ten of us business class 109 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: to Italy Christmas. 110 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: I'm liking it more and more. What about stuff like 111 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: government payments, tax payments, baths, that type of thing. 112 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the good thing with reward pay is that 113 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 2: we can pay pretty much any business expense that you 114 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: could imagine. So if you think about the ubiquitous expenses 115 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: that business have, you know, paying your bads right once 116 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 2: a quarter, you know, is absolutely something that people pay 117 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 2: through award pay. If you think about utilities, everyone's got, 118 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: you know, if you're in manufacturing, you've got you know, 119 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: gas and electricity bills that you've got to pay. You've 120 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 2: got business insurances that you have to pay. You know, 121 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: any business expense that you might have, you know, you 122 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: can pretty much pump through award pay. 123 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: Mark, stay with me and we'll be back in the moment. 124 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: My guest this morning is Mark Dawes, CEO of Reward Pay. 125 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: If you're in Green signs up to reward pay for example, 126 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:56,239 Speaker 1: is the primary benefit the loyalty factor. 127 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: I think it comes down to the industry. So you know, 128 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: if you look at an industry like construction, where you 129 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 2: have progress payments, you know, for that sort of business, 130 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 2: the cash flow benefit is really crucial to their business. 131 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: And you've got to remember that, you know, on some 132 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: cards you're getting up to fifty five days, and some 133 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: of these businesses are really savvy at lining up the 134 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: card cycle cut to when they're actually going to put 135 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 2: an invoice on the card. So, as I saying, construction, 136 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: that's really crucial. But for all businesses, yes, the loyalty component, 137 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 2: you know, is an absolutely huge hook, you know, for 138 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: as I say, all businesses. And what we also find 139 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: is that the loyalty value is is such a magnitude 140 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 2: that not only are people electing to or not electing, 141 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 2: but they're getting their credit card reward points, but they're 142 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 2: also electing to earn Corness points on top. Right, So 143 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 2: you know, we have the ability for you to obviously 144 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: pay the fee to process the transaction, get your credit 145 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: card reward points, but then on top of that you 146 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 2: can say, well, yes, I'd like to earn Conness points 147 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: with that, and we actually give the customers a choice 148 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: as to how many points they want to earn, so 149 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 2: you can earn say a quarter of a point per 150 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 2: dollar all the way through to two points per dollar. 151 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: And is that a relationship that you or MX have 152 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: with quantas. 153 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we've got a direct relationship with Quantas, which 154 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: we've had for several years now, and it's something that 155 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: a large population of our customers really enjoy just because 156 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: of the value that they can derive by earning those points. 157 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: Okay, I want to go on about the points in member, 158 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: but this is something that you mentioned a moment ago 159 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: around and come back to. So in a sense, one 160 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: of the big benefits, it's a cash flow benefit to 161 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: small business, because cash flow seems to be the biggest 162 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: issue of all. 163 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's interest free cash flow, right. 164 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, So you're not going to an 165 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: army draft. 166 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just working it out. 167 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: Okay, So what sort of reward I mean, you mentioned Quantus, 168 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: but in the intro there was a bunch of different 169 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: awards there. What sort of rewards of people taking up? 170 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, I can answer that question in 171 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: so many different ways. 172 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: Okay, I'll ask you again, what sort of awards should 173 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: I take up? Personally? 174 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 2: Well, what we know is that the redemption for business travel, 175 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: particularly for business class travel and first class travel from 176 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: a getting great value for your points is a really 177 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 2: good way to redeem. So to give you an example, 178 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: you know, one dollar is roughly worth one point, right, 179 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 2: whether it be for Quantus or for your credit card. 180 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: And what we know is that it costs about three 181 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand points for a return trip to 182 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: Europe for argument's sake. Now, if you are to come 183 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: and do that on the reward pay platform, the cost 184 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: of acquiring that three hundred and fifty thousand points is 185 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: going to be about six and a half thousand dollars. 186 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 2: And as I say, that will get your return flight 187 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: to Europe. Now, if you were to go and pay 188 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: for that trip, that's about twelve to fifteen thousand dollars 189 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: of cash if you're buying that. So you know, immediately 190 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 2: you can see that you've kind of got a trip 191 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 2: for half the cost. 192 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And is it mostly travel that people redeem 193 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: it for? 194 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 2: You know what, we have people that redeem for all 195 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 2: sorts of crazy things. You know, in some cases you 196 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: can call up your card issuer and they will convert 197 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: your points into cash. So we've had people that we've 198 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: known have called up American Express and they've said, look, 199 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: I'm at the Ferrari dealership and I just want to 200 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: know how many points I need to convert to get 201 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: you know, whatever Ferrari they're looking at. We had a 202 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 2: pharmacist who called up American Express and said, look, I'm 203 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: just doing some renovations at my house. I want to 204 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: get a pool in the back garden. So you know 205 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: what have I got to convert to pay the guy 206 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: that's building the pool. So you know, there's just such 207 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: a huge range. You know, you can, as I say, 208 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 2: redeem for really pretty much anything that's got a cash value. 209 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: You can redeem for flights, you can redeem for whatever 210 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 2: product that may be in whatever particular store, for whatever 211 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 2: credit card you've got. You know, it's really unlimited in 212 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 2: terms of what the redemptions are. 213 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: Presumably make you get a pretty good view of how 214 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: the SME sector is traveling then, because you are seeing 215 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: what they're doing, where they're spending. How is it traveling? 216 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: I'm just sort of so moving away kind of from 217 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: reward pay Ye, the SME sector itself, how do you 218 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: think it's traveling? 219 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: Or you're right because we are right at the point 220 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: end in terms of people processing big business payments. You know, 221 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 2: we can literally see on like an hour by hour basis, 222 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 2: you know, and maybe that's a bit extreme, but certainly 223 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: on a day by day basis. What's happening in the 224 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 2: economy with business, and the first thing that we see 225 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: is just you know, the downturn in terms of traditional spend. 226 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: So if I go, you know, to an industry like restaurants, 227 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: you know, we can see when the volume from restaurants 228 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: comes off, you know, as I say, literally on a 229 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 2: day by day or a week by week basis. So 230 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: that's the first indicator that we get. Second indicator that 231 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: we get is that the card issuers start to cut 232 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 2: the limits. So you might have a customer that pumps 233 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: through fifty thousand bucks a week and he gets up 234 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 2: to thirty K, and you know, after thirty K, the 235 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 2: card starts to decline. And that's because the card issuers, 236 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: who I think, have you got some crystal ball that 237 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 2: can see well into the future, decide that their risk 238 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: is getting too high and so they know the way 239 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 2: to manage that is they cut their card limits. Yeah. 240 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 2: So to answer your question, at the moment, business is 241 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: actually holding up really well. You know, we're not seeing 242 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: any of that, you know, despite a lot of the 243 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 2: talk in the press at the moment that the economy 244 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 2: is you know, perhaps a little bit jittery. I've got 245 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 2: to say, you know, in terms of B to B, 246 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: we don't see that. And maybe it is that we 247 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 2: don't see it because it's retail that really gets hit, 248 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: you know, more so good it. 249 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: Flows through to the B to B the I think, yeah, But. 250 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 2: At the moment, I can tell you it's it's looking 251 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 2: pretty solid. 252 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: Fantastic, Mike, Thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 253 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 254 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: That was Mark Doors, CEO of Reward Pay. This is 255 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: a Fear and Greed business interview. Join us every morning 256 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: for the full episode of Fear and Greed. Daily business 257 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: news but people who make their own decisions. I'm John Elma. 258 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,239 Speaker 1: Enjoy your day.