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Speaker 1: Apodjay production. So it's Sunday. I'm at home and so

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Speaker 1: it's the noise of crows out the back. But I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to call this girl who reached out to

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Speaker 1: us via Jason and Amanda. She says that she used

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Speaker 1: to work at the coroner's court. This person is a

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Speaker 1: person that reached out to Jason and Amanda via Instagram

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Speaker 1: after hearing a podcast. He's an extract from her message

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Speaker 1: read by Ai.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Amanda, I have been following the podcast since it started,

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Speaker 2: and first I want to give my condolences to you,

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Speaker 2: Jason and your family. I worked in the Coroner's office

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Speaker 2: and I would love to answer some of the questions

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Speaker 2: you raised in the podcast.

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Speaker 1: The ex voice you hear is her actual voice, however

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Speaker 1: we have changed it to protect her identity.

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Speaker 3: So I've been listening to the podcast since it came

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Speaker 3: to air, like June, and I live in Tasmania, so

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Speaker 3: it was definitely something that you know, sparked my attention.

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Speaker 3: And when I heard all the different questions that was

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Speaker 3: being asked in the podcast, things that you couldn't get

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Speaker 3: clarity on, things you had questions about, I couldn't help

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Speaker 3: myself but answer them myself in my own head and thought,

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Speaker 3: these this poor family can't get answers from anyone, And

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Speaker 3: I'm sitting here with some of the answer to their questions,

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Speaker 3: and I just couldn't help but keep that to myself.

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Speaker 1: We have changed your voice for this recording, but and

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Speaker 1: we aren't going to talk about anything that could identify you.

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Speaker 1: Why is that? Can you and tell me why that is?

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Speaker 3: Probably has part to do with how much has been

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Speaker 3: covered up in Eden's case. I guess the system is

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Speaker 3: just corrupt and they'll point the finger at anyone they can,

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Speaker 3: and I don't want that to affect me or incriminate

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Speaker 3: me in any way.

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Speaker 1: After we finish this call, we've actually verified that this

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Speaker 1: person did work at the Coroner's court. We will omit

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Speaker 1: anything that can identify her. But what I can say

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Speaker 1: is that she worked there sometime between Eden's death and today.

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Speaker 3: I pretty much worked as an assistant within the Coroner's office.

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Speaker 3: There wasn't many people that worked in there. I would

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Speaker 3: say a team of less than fifteen, and that was

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Speaker 3: including a couple of police officers and the team leaders.

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Speaker 1: And so what does an assistant to the coroner do?

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Speaker 3: Generally, we would take notes for the coroner, assist the

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Speaker 3: coroner in an inquest if need be. They gather all

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Speaker 3: of the information, all of the records, including the autopsy reports,

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Speaker 3: the toxicology reports, and plate everything into a folder to

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Speaker 3: make sure that it's correct for when a coroner needs

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Speaker 3: to go through it and analyze all the data, making

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Speaker 3: sure that everything is told and there's no duplicates and

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Speaker 3: only relevant information would be in there, including medical records

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Speaker 3: and any phone data and things like that.

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Speaker 1: Could you tell me whether autopsy photos would normally be

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Speaker 1: part of those records?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely so how and.

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Speaker 1: Where would they filed? Were they filed with the main report?

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Speaker 1: Is everything in the one place? I guess is the question?

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Speaker 3: Yes? So everything is actually filed twice, so there's always

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Speaker 3: two copies. One is digital and one is a hard copy.

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Speaker 3: So the hard copy file is always kept together. If

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Speaker 3: it wasn't kept together, then it could be mixed up

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Speaker 3: and you know, de identified amongst all of the files

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Speaker 3: that are in there. So it's definitely all kept together.

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Speaker 3: And then there is a digital file which everything is

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Speaker 3: duplicated onto because everyone knows that paper copies can be lost,

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Speaker 3: so there's always two files.

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Speaker 1: For a period of time. Eden's family was looking for

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Speaker 1: the autopsy photos. They were looking for those photos because

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Speaker 1: they'd seen photos of the death scene. They'd seen all

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Speaker 1: of the information that obviously the current had. We believe

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Speaker 1: the current had been given. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: was first not in the original file was the autopsy photos.

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Speaker 1: Is that unusual?

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Speaker 3: I would consider it to be unusual in saying that,

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Speaker 3: And the autopsy photos aren't in every single folder, but

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Speaker 3: given the circumstances around this particular case, they would definitely

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Speaker 3: be in there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for what reason wouldn't they be in there? If

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Speaker 1: it was like a case where where there was nothing suspicious,

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Speaker 1: or what would be the reason that the autopsy photos

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Speaker 1: weren't in a file.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes if it was an elderly person that passed away

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Speaker 3: of natural causes and the death needed to be investigated,

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Speaker 3: that just that there was absolutely no way that it

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Speaker 3: could be you know, suspicious, you know how the persons

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Speaker 3: passed away before they even come into the coroner's office.

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Speaker 1: As we go, for a period of time, Jason and

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Speaker 1: Amanda and their independent doctor Barron Collins were trying to

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Speaker 1: track down Eden's autopsy photos. At first, they were led

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Speaker 1: to believe that they were not with the file. However,

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Speaker 1: we found out new information when we had our episode

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Speaker 1: with doctor Barron Collins in episode five in this second series.

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Speaker 1: He told us that the access to the photos, the

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Speaker 1: autopsy photos for him as an independent forensic expert, were

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Speaker 1: denied even though he was working a part for Jason

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Speaker 1: and Amanda.

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Speaker 3: It's really unusual that the direct family would request to

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Speaker 3: see the whole folder and be denied that, especially being

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Speaker 3: immediate family. It is common practice that if you want

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Speaker 3: to see the information, you have to request it. Everyone

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Speaker 3: has to do that, but if it's the immediate family,

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Speaker 3: there should be nothing to hide.

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Speaker 1: And I'm guessing throughout your time there, you would have

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Speaker 1: seen those types of requests come to the coroner. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And is it a formality more than anything that a

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Speaker 1: coroner would then you know, obviously look into that particular

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Speaker 1: request and then either grant or deny it based on

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Speaker 1: you know, who was making the request.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe so. And it's more so so that

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Speaker 3: the coroner knows who's requesting the information. For example, if

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Speaker 3: it was just a member of the public who was

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Speaker 3: interested about the case, they wouldn't allow that information. They

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Speaker 3: wouldn't grant access to the information because they have it's

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Speaker 3: got nothing to do with them. But given that it's

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Speaker 3: immediate family, would it would be a given that'd be

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Speaker 3: granted access.

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Speaker 1: And so that sort of then sparked your concerns. If

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Speaker 1: you're like listening to the podcast and knowing what you know,

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Speaker 1: you found that unusual? Was there anything else you found unusual?

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Speaker 3: Nothing adds up, Nothing adds up, And it's really concerning.

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Speaker 3: As a listener I have, you know, you can't even

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Speaker 3: begin to imagine how Jason and Amanda would be feeling.

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Speaker 3: But as somebody that's worked in the industry, it doesn't

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Speaker 3: line up. They would have had all of the information

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Speaker 3: in front of them, and the role of a coroner

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Speaker 3: used to look at every single piece of evidence to

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Speaker 3: determine the cause of death. And if all of the

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Speaker 3: information was analyzed, given you know the way the rope

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Speaker 3: was hung, and you know the ug boots next to

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Speaker 3: the body and different things like that, it's it doesn't

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Speaker 3: seem that Eden was the only one in the past

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Speaker 3: that day, and it just it doesn't sit well with me.

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Speaker 3: If that was a member of my family, I would

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Speaker 3: want to know the truth as well.

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Speaker 1: What was the office culture like when you worked there.

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Speaker 3: I would say it was very clique. You could it was.

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Speaker 3: It was a very calm place to work. But in

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Speaker 3: that in the dynamic was you know, if you don't

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Speaker 3: laugh about something, you'll cry about it, sort of being

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Speaker 3: like it was a little bit of dark humor and

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Speaker 3: you could only really talk to a few people about

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Speaker 3: certain things.

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Speaker 1: I guess, can I ask what you meant by that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like some some people would joke to you about something,

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Speaker 3: and then you try to joke about the same thing

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Speaker 3: to another person and that would be totally different dynamic.

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Speaker 3: There was a couple of people that had their little

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Speaker 3: clique that nobody else could fit into.

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Speaker 1: Were people encouraged to speak up of concerns inside the

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Speaker 1: coroner's office when you.

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Speaker 3: Were there, I guess nobody really had any concerns because

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Speaker 3: they thought they thought they were in the best hands.

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Speaker 3: It's not It's not really something that I thought about

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Speaker 3: when I worked there, because of you think, if you

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Speaker 3: work for a government department with people that hold so

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Speaker 3: much power over such important things like the closure of

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Speaker 3: you know, people passing away, you it's not something that

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Speaker 3: you second guest or should have to second guess. But

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Speaker 3: if something didn't sit right we weren't really encouraged to

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Speaker 3: speak up about it because I don't think people ever

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Speaker 3: thought about it like that.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask why you left? I've decided to redact

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Speaker 1: this part of the chat because it might identify this person. However,

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Speaker 1: what I can tell you is that they left as

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Speaker 1: a normal course of working and they don't hold any

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Speaker 1: grudges towards the Coroner's Court. There was no issues of

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Speaker 1: concerns with the working practice. While she was working in

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Speaker 1: the Coroner's Court in Tasmania.

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Speaker 3: I was dealing with lots of affidavits and information that

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Speaker 3: was coming through, and nothing ever sparked my attention. That

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Speaker 3: didn't really sit right. I was there to do a

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Speaker 3: job and it's not something that I really analyzed in

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Speaker 3: that way. It's just been since i've taken a step back,

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Speaker 3: and this case in particular. Yeah, I don't think I

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Speaker 3: really thought about it when I worked there. I think

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Speaker 3: that's something that I thought about because it's not something

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Speaker 3: that you expect to second guests.

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Speaker 1: What about the name Paul Reynolds. Did that ever come

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Speaker 1: across your desk?

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Speaker 3: It definitely would have in terms of affid David yep.

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Speaker 1: But I'm guessing at that stage when you were there.

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Speaker 1: None of the information that is currently now in the

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Speaker 1: public forum was released.

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Speaker 3: Right, No, that's correct.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you use the term cover up. Why do you

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Speaker 1: think there's a cover up?

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Speaker 3: That's a really hard question answer. None of the evidence,

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Speaker 3: None of the evidence lines up. There scenes to be

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Speaker 3: a I don't know, because the evidence doesn't line up

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Speaker 3: in terms of why it could be so clean cut

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Speaker 3: to market as a suicide, but yet there's so many

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Speaker 3: other avenues of evidence that it could indicate cell play.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense that the file took so long

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Speaker 3: to pass through the coroner's office for them to deem

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Speaker 3: it as a suicide.

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Speaker 1: I do want to state that the person we're talking

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Speaker 1: to is not claiming she knows there was a cover

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Speaker 1: up because of her role in the coroner's court. What

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Speaker 1: she is claiming is that after working in the coroner's

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Speaker 1: court and having a more intricate knowledge of policy and procedure,

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Speaker 1: and then hearing our podcast, she thinks that some things

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Speaker 1: just don't add up. As part of the coroner's duty,

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Speaker 1: there would be a lot of death by suicide files

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Speaker 1: that would come through the office.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's correct.

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Speaker 1: The contents of those files, how big or small are they?

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Speaker 1: How many pages are we talking? What sort of thing

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Speaker 1: should be in that in a file.

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Speaker 3: Like that, in I would definitely say they are a

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Speaker 3: smaller file than others. The smallest file you would see

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Speaker 3: would be a death by natural cause. And then I

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Speaker 3: would say, depending on the person, the length of medical records,

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Speaker 3: things like that, that all determines the sizing of the

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Speaker 3: file in terms of the size and what matter would

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Speaker 3: be in There would be any phone records or medical

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Speaker 3: records After David's from family members, the last person they

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Speaker 3: spoke to, I would say definitely, the photos as well,

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Speaker 3: the toxicology, the autopsy report, They all determine the size

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Speaker 3: of the file. Obviously, if there is a case of

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Speaker 3: foul play, there is more evidence that's collected and more

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Speaker 3: affidavits that are required, which is why the files are bigger.

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Speaker 1: In Eden's case, what we do know is that the

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Speaker 1: coroner was looking through her file and then requested more

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Speaker 1: information from some people, including the woman that found Eden's

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Speaker 1: body in the tree. The delivery driver name was Kim.

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Speaker 4: About six months later, I've got a call from Bridgewater

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Speaker 4: Police Station, which is the closest to where I live,

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Speaker 4: and they asked if I'd mind coming in, because the

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Speaker 4: coroner had a few more questions for me. So I

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Speaker 4: went over and they were inquiring about if so I've

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Speaker 4: noticed anything unusual about her risk?

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Speaker 1: Is that common practice for a car that look for

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Speaker 1: the file and going I need to see this, this,

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Speaker 1: and this.

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Speaker 3: I would say it's only common practice if they can't

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Speaker 3: determined by the evidence of what they already have. So

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Speaker 3: I would say the request for more information would only

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Speaker 3: come if they can't determine the cause by the information

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Speaker 3: that they already have. So if she's already got the

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Speaker 3: photos and the initial affid David, and the photos from

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Speaker 3: the scene, the police affidavids from the scene, I would

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Speaker 3: think that if it was an obvious suicide, you would

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Speaker 3: be able to deem that via the initial the initial

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Speaker 3: records that she would have.

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Speaker 1: Fund I guess it really gets down to and this

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Speaker 1: is I don't want to put words in your mouth here,

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Speaker 1: but from what I'm hearing, it gets down to what's

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Speaker 1: delivered to the coroner, right, so that if a file

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Speaker 1: is delivered to the coroner and the likelihood is that

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Speaker 1: it is a death by suicide and they have enough

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Speaker 1: information in that file, as you've mentioned, other things, photos

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Speaker 1: of the scene, maybe the autopsy and toxicology report, maybe

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Speaker 1: some affidavits from the police on the scene, and some

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Speaker 1: statements from the family. At that stage, it feels like

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Speaker 1: there's nothing more to do, right, It's like, well, there's

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Speaker 1: no more other evidence that I can see, So it

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Speaker 1: really it really gets down to what was delivered to

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Speaker 1: the coroner.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's correct. Generally it generally the coroner wouldn't

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Speaker 3: wouldn't make efforts to seek more information unless it wasn't obvious.

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Speaker 3: But it doesn't. It doesn't make sense that she already

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Speaker 3: had all of the evidence to start with and seeks

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Speaker 3: more evidence and still deemed it as a suicide. It's

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Speaker 3: not It's not uncommon for the coroner to even go

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Speaker 3: to links to analyze the type of rope that was used,

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Speaker 3: the way that it was hung, the way that it

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Speaker 3: was tied, the height of the tree, how somebody could

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Speaker 3: have ended up in that way. I Did they stand

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Speaker 3: on something, did they jump from a height? All of

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Speaker 3: those things are things that are analyzed, and that's what

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Speaker 3: doesn't make sense to me that if all of those

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Speaker 3: things were taken into consideration like they are in all

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Speaker 3: other cases, how is it that Eden was able to

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Speaker 3: commit suicide in the way that she was found.

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Speaker 1: In the carna's report to the family is released publicly,

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Speaker 1: she mentions that Paul Reynolds was assisting the case. What

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Speaker 1: would a police officer in the coroner's court be responsible for?

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Speaker 1: What would they be doing?

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Speaker 3: A police in the coroner's in quest or investigation would

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Speaker 3: be responsible for obtaining after David from family members, anyone

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Speaker 3: that would have spoken to Eden in you know, the

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Speaker 3: night of or the recent days leading up to her death.

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Speaker 3: They would be responsible for collecting different types of evidence.

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Speaker 3: Would that be you know, Eden's phone, any like a

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Speaker 3: laptop that she may have spoken to people on. That'd

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Speaker 3: be responsible for the specific police officers that would take

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Speaker 3: the photos, ensuring that they have all the correct information

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Speaker 3: to give to the coroner.

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Speaker 1: And so we've recently heard that Paul Reynolds was a

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Speaker 1: bit lazy, didn't really do his job very well, and

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Speaker 1: that's been mentioned in the white support that's just been

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Speaker 1: released in Tasmania. If a police officer that was overseeing

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Speaker 1: the case for the coroner didn't ask the right questions,

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Speaker 1: is it possible that the right information then wasn't delivered.

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Speaker 3: To the coroner. Yeah, absolutely, So the coroner can only

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Speaker 3: can only get so much, and I guess that's why

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Speaker 3: she had to request more information, because she didn't have substantial,

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Speaker 3: substantial evidence to deem the cause of death. I think.

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Speaker 3: Probably another thing that I think there was a question

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Speaker 3: relating to how the files are stored and how long

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Speaker 3: they're kept for.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so all paper files are kept in the coroner's

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Speaker 3: office itself for I believe it's from fifty to one

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Speaker 3: hundred years. I don't know the exact time frame. After

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Speaker 3: the files reach a certain age, they go to the

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Speaker 3: Tasmanian Archives Office and they are kept indefinitely. No records

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Speaker 3: are destroyed.

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Speaker 1: Ever, So it should be that anything that was gathered

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Speaker 1: in Eden Westbrook's case would still be available both in

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Speaker 1: digital copy and in physical copy in the current in

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Speaker 1: the Currenter's court in Hivat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, and given the age of Eden's file, it

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Speaker 3: would definitely be kept digitally. But obviously older files wouldn't

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Speaker 3: be kept digitally because that wasn't a thing back then.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, definitely, in Eden's case, they would have a

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Speaker 3: digital copy and paper copy