Speaker 1: Just a warning. Today's episode discusses traumatic events and refers
Speaker 1: to deceased Aboriginal people and contains offensive language. It's also
Speaker 1: the second episode in a three part series. If you
Speaker 1: haven't yet, go listen to episode one, Children of the Intervention.
Speaker 1: You see a lot of cops here in pursuit vehicles,
Speaker 1: driving the caged divisional van to get in this part
Speaker 1: of the world, or checking the IDs as people line
Speaker 1: up outside the bottle shop in the town's main shopping center.
Speaker 1: It feels like they're everywhere, and the numbers back up
Speaker 1: what the eyes can see. For every one hundred thousand
Speaker 1: people in the Northern Territory, there are seven hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty cops, almost triple the national average. We spoke to
Speaker 1: Uncle Brian in the last episode, along with Damien and
Speaker 1: his eighteen year old son Bison. They represent three generations
Speaker 1: of Arunda men, all of whom have had their own
Speaker 1: experiences with the territory and police. It doesn't make you
Speaker 1: feel like when you're walking down the street and you
Speaker 1: see a police fan head towards you, it's.
Speaker 2: Like sad sort of thing, you know, because you know
Speaker 2: they're looking at you, they're targeting you. Who's actually one
Speaker 2: black color. They're watching you.
Speaker 3: They're getting a little bit overboard.
Speaker 1: To be honest, everywhere I go in l Springs, locals
Speaker 1: tell me about interactions they've had with the cops. Not
Speaker 1: everyone wants to say it into a microphone, but the
Speaker 1: stories are similar, stories about violent cops and about not
Speaker 1: feeling safe in their own town.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that you talk about murder, They've killed a lot
Speaker 4: of people.
Speaker 2: They killed a lot of people, especially our people, black people.
Speaker 2: Nothing in the orditary nobody was found guilty.
Speaker 1: Uncle Brian's talking about the fact that since the point
Speaker 1: of first contact between black and white people on this continent,
Speaker 1: thousands of Aboriginal people have died in custody and not
Speaker 1: a single law enforcement official has ever been convicted.
Speaker 4: You know, they walk around saying about gangs in the
Speaker 4: town and all this, and that, who's the gangs? We're
Speaker 4: not the gang. Who's the ones we're in a badge
Speaker 4: linked up to another association, not another badge. They're the
Speaker 4: ones with their game because they're the ones where their uniform.
Speaker 1: The broken relationship between the police and locals isn't just
Speaker 1: conjecture on the streets of Alice Springs. It's acknowledged by
Speaker 1: the INNT Police Commissioner who earlier this year apologized to
Speaker 1: Aboriginal Territorians for the harm caused by his organization.
Speaker 5: So today, as the police commissioner on the Northern Territory,
Speaker 5: I unagreeably say sorry Orratorians in the past Hans and
Speaker 5: the injustices caused, or members of the Northern Territory Police.
Speaker 1: I want to understand how things got to this point,
Speaker 1: whether it's possible to mend all the broken pieces splintering
Speaker 1: the community here. To begin to find meaning, I'd need
Speaker 1: to speak to the police themselves and the arrunder woman
Speaker 1: tasked with changing the culture within the force and trying
Speaker 1: to rebuild the relationship between her organization and her people.
Speaker 1: I'm Daniel James, and you're listening to seven AM. This
Speaker 1: is Alice Springs Episode two The Coppers. This episode was
Speaker 1: first published in October last year. There's one story that
Speaker 1: sums up where things stand between the cops and the community.
Speaker 1: Here is twenty twenty two. Police officer Zachary Rolf has
Speaker 1: just been acquitted for the murder of a nineteen year
Speaker 1: old wolpery man Come and Jie Walker. There were no
Speaker 1: Indigenous people on the jury it was overwhelmingly white. His
Speaker 1: family had waited years for a verdict, and when it
Speaker 1: finally came, they were left reeling.
Speaker 3: Toe day is not a very.
Speaker 4: It's not a really a happy day for us.
Speaker 6: It's another sad day.
Speaker 1: Standing on the step to the Supreme Court and Alice
Speaker 1: springs their palpable grief, their anger and the deep despair
Speaker 1: showed the chasm that had grown between the police and
Speaker 1: the Aboriginal community. This is Senior walprialda ned jump, a
Speaker 1: jump of hard graves.
Speaker 6: I just say, when we are going to get justice, when.
Speaker 7: No guns in the Row remote community, we I want
Speaker 7: no guns. Enough is enough, It's gonna stop.
Speaker 1: When he killed him and Jie Walker, Zachary Roll fired
Speaker 1: three shots during an attempt to arrest him. Walker was
Speaker 1: holding a pair of scissors at the time. A community
Speaker 1: officer who'd arrested Walker many times before said he'd never
Speaker 1: known him to resist arrest. He said, Walk out been
Speaker 1: in town for his granddad's funeral and it was agreed
Speaker 1: that he'd hand himself in after that, but he didn't
Speaker 1: get the chance to do that. A subsequent coronial inquest
Speaker 1: into Walker's death took two years to run. Another two
Speaker 1: years in the life of Walker's family finishing earlier this year.
Speaker 1: The inquest revealed that Zachary Ralph had been involved in
Speaker 1: forty six use of force incidents in his three years
Speaker 1: and Alice Springs. One of the videos from his own
Speaker 1: body cam was the arrest of a fourteen year old.
Speaker 1: The kid jumps in a wheelie bin, Ralph kicks the
Speaker 1: bin over while with child's inside. Soon, an internal investigation
Speaker 1: found his use of force was not excessive, but during
Speaker 1: the inquest, Rolph gave Frank a wide ranging testimony on
Speaker 1: the culture within the Northern Territory Police Force. The testimony
Speaker 1: would reveal what many had assumed for a long time.
Speaker 1: A culture of widespread racism exists within the force.
Speaker 8: A series of explosive text messages downloaded from Constable Zachary
Speaker 8: Rolf's pione following his arrest in twenty nineteen have been
Speaker 8: read aloud to the court the current sergeant in charge.
Speaker 1: Revelations with Nowhere to Hide in the form of testimony
Speaker 1: and texts from police officers presented to the inquest for
Speaker 1: all the world to see.
Speaker 8: An unnamed officer texted Rolf saying, who'd you had a
Speaker 8: rough arvo? Yesterday, grubby constable role replying referring to Indigenous
Speaker 8: people as in another message to.
Speaker 9: The level of racism was palpable because there was the
Speaker 9: text messages shared between the police officers that were involved
Speaker 9: in the operation and.
Speaker 1: John Lawrence sc is the former president of the nt
Speaker 1: Bar Association. He touched down in the territory via Melbourne
Speaker 1: from Edinburgh in the eighties at the same time the
Speaker 1: Royal Commission into Death and Custody was happening, and for
Speaker 1: nearly four decades he's represented Aboriginal people in the intejustice system.
Speaker 1: Even after all that time, witnessing Territory police up close
Speaker 1: that inquest was still shocking.
Speaker 9: And then a coming out at the same inquest, we
Speaker 9: discovered that the same group had these annual Christmas dinners
Speaker 9: where they gave out awards which were horrendously blatantly Alabama
Speaker 9: stale racis with Coon of the Year award and you know,
Speaker 9: blacking up stuff. I mean stuff that you know, honestly,
Speaker 9: I didn't think that we had descended to that level.
Speaker 1: John takes the long view when he says that the
Speaker 1: fractured relationship between the police and Aboriginal communities has always
Speaker 1: been a byproduct of colonization, but things really kicking the
Speaker 1: gear during the intervention.
Speaker 9: When the Intervention came in, one of the things that
Speaker 9: they spent millions on was setting up police stations in
Speaker 9: communities that previously didn't have any. Now, if you put
Speaker 9: a police station anywhere which was previously apparently crying free,
Speaker 9: you're going to end up within six months with a
Speaker 9: lot of people arrested in chats with criminal offenses. I mean,
Speaker 9: I've joked that if I was an Aboriginal person in
Speaker 9: twenty twenty four, I wouldn't even walk past the courthouse
Speaker 9: because there's some kind of hoovering vacuum mechanism that could
Speaker 9: suck you in the front door, put you in a dock,
Speaker 9: and then put you down into the cells below, and
Speaker 9: you're in the black Maria van and off to jail
Speaker 9: you go. It's just that's how effective efficient our system
Speaker 9: has become. It's crazy shit.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the nuts and bolts of it a
Speaker 1: little bit. What happens when a kid is arrested.
Speaker 9: What happens, percisely, what happens to original kids is that
Speaker 9: they get taken the court and they will be let's
Speaker 9: say tried, Now, what they are entitled to, like you
Speaker 9: and I, is due process, which includes, as your bastions,
Speaker 9: the presumption of innocence, the honess of proof being on
Speaker 9: the state which is beyond reasonable doubt, and it has
Speaker 9: to be based on real admissible evidence. Now, these are
Speaker 9: the standard protections and safeguards that our system has in
Speaker 9: order to prevent injustice and wrongful convictions, but none of
Speaker 9: them really have any application. If you're a seventeen year
Speaker 9: old Aboriginal kid who's up for breaking entry or stealing cars,
Speaker 9: you're just whisked through a system at one hundred mile
Speaker 9: an hour.
Speaker 1: Kids are represented by crumbling legal eyed services, stretched beyond
Speaker 1: their limits by all restrictions. Pystine kids aren't met because
Speaker 1: they can't be met, and so around seventy percent of
Speaker 1: kids who are in detention are on remand presumed innocent
Speaker 1: under the law, but locked up nonetheless, and they end
Speaker 1: up in places locked Dondale.
Speaker 10: This is the vision that has sent shockwaves around the world.
Speaker 10: This was not filmed in Gontanamo Bay or North Korea.
Speaker 10: This was filmed in the Northern Territory in our own country.
Speaker 11: The events at the Dondale Center that were set out
Speaker 11: on four corners shocked and appalled Australians, and we are
Speaker 11: dealing with it with a Royal commission.
Speaker 1: Dondale used detention center, the one Malcolm Tamble would eventually
Speaker 1: establish a Royal Commission over, was built in ninety one
Speaker 1: specifically to lock up kids between the ages of ten
Speaker 1: and seventeen, Some sentence to serve time there, others held
Speaker 1: there on romand The facility is in Darwin, but kids
Speaker 1: from El Springs are often shipped there, fifteen hours up
Speaker 1: the road, away from home, their families and all they know.
Speaker 1: Most are Aboriginal. In fact, nearly eighty two percent of
Speaker 1: inmates in NTA prison are Aboriginal, even though they only
Speaker 1: make up thirty percent of the anti population. At times
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of all youth incarcerated here have been Aboriginal.
Speaker 1: John remembers the first time a case of a kid
Speaker 1: at don Dale was handed to him. All his years
Speaker 1: of experience couldn't prepare him for what he saw happening there.
Speaker 9: No sooner had I first discovered it than I realized
Speaker 9: that this had been going on for years, and it
Speaker 9: was still going on, and it was like a boil
Speaker 9: that needed to be burst. That stuff for stuff that
Speaker 9: was going on in Dndale which was exposed by full
Speaker 9: Corners was torture and abuse, solitary confinement, assault, psychological batterings,
Speaker 9: all of that none more.
Speaker 1: What does that do to kids saved? There's a kid
Speaker 1: that's been a don Dale and they end that back
Speaker 1: on the streets of somewhere like Alice Springs. What did
Speaker 1: they go back as worse?
Speaker 9: Their trauma and their injuries and damage are compounded, So
Speaker 9: i'm are more injured than they went in and they
Speaker 9: haven't been reabilitate in any each yep or form. So
Speaker 9: they just go back to where they came from and
Speaker 9: the sacle goes on. It's this sacle of perpetuation, which
Speaker 9: is really what the legal situation here is.
Speaker 1: Kids are made worse by a failing justice system. Some
Speaker 1: kids bend to its will, others are broken by it.
Speaker 1: If they do come out the other side, often the
Speaker 1: cycle they're in is all they've known and all they
Speaker 1: will know. That cycle starts and ends with the Coppers,
Speaker 1: a cycle that extends through its one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: four year history, which leads to the police Commissioner rising
Speaker 1: to his feet at Garma to make this apology.
Speaker 5: I know that I cannot change or the past, and
Speaker 5: as the police Emissioner, alongside with our police officers, we
Speaker 5: can commit to not repeat mistakes and the injustices of
Speaker 5: the past. All the territory police need to be accountable.
Speaker 5: One of the past treatment of original people.
Speaker 1: Standing next to the Commissioner was rund a woman, Leanne Little.
Speaker 1: This is the cop who's been given the job of
Speaker 1: mending the relationship between the police and her people, the
Speaker 1: woman who has to take the apology and make it count.
Speaker 1: So what's their plan?
Speaker 10: Ready?
Speaker 12: Yeah, Okay, that's after the break.
Speaker 1: So it's marine about a quarters to wait in the morning,
Speaker 1: and we are on our way to the well. The
Speaker 1: police headquarter is here in Alice Springs to speak to
Speaker 1: Leanne Little, and we're speaking to her at a time
Speaker 1: when the Chief Commissioner has just made an apology to
Speaker 1: the Aboriginal people of the Northern Territory and she has
Speaker 1: now been charged with basically changing the culture of the
Speaker 1: force to address things like systemic racism, interpersonal racism, racial profiling.
Speaker 1: I think, without a shadow of a doubt you could
Speaker 1: easily say it's the most difficult and challenging job within
Speaker 1: the force itself, and the relations between the Aboriginal community
Speaker 1: here and antique police are probably at an all time light.
Speaker 1: Alice Springs Police Station looks like a typical municipal building
Speaker 1: from the eighties, non threatening but imposing in a town
Speaker 1: of this size. It's only once you're inside it feels
Speaker 1: like a cop shop. Protective glass shielding the front counter,
Speaker 1: interview rooms to the left, a limited access to anywhere
Speaker 1: beyond that. As we wait to be shown to a
Speaker 1: room to record the interview, Leanne arrives and signs in Daniel, Daniel,
Speaker 1: I knowed. She takes time to speak to the constable
Speaker 1: behind the glass, an Aboriginal man. She gives him her
Speaker 1: contact details and tells him to stay in touch. We're
Speaker 1: shown into a small office somewhere in the heart of
Speaker 1: the building. Okay, we're ready to roll. First of all, Leanne,
Speaker 1: thank you very much for your time. Know how busy
Speaker 1: you are as we sit here now in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: just at the start of your journey in this role.
Speaker 1: Would you say that the Northern Territory Police is a
Speaker 1: racist institution.
Speaker 3: No. I see some individuals that have been racist, and
Speaker 3: I see a lot of good officers that need more
Speaker 3: good offices around them, and I see a system where
Speaker 3: those good officers need tools to be able to make
Speaker 3: sure that those people who have behaviors because usually with
Speaker 3: the racism, people are sexist as well, people are homophobic.
Speaker 3: So it's a combination of attitudes, not just one alone.
Speaker 3: So you know, it needs to be everything that needs
Speaker 3: to be tackled.
Speaker 1: So do you think that the original community of our
Speaker 1: springs trust the police as we sit here at the moment.
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of work to be done.
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of tangible outcomes that need
Speaker 3: to be seen on the ground before people regain that
Speaker 3: trust in police. People should feel that when they call
Speaker 3: for police, and when police attend as an offender or
Speaker 3: a victim, that they're getting the service that they deserve.
Speaker 1: Leanne was born and raised in Alice Springs. Her data
Speaker 1: was a construction and mum a school counselor. It was
Speaker 1: a safe upbringing with food on the table. Her parents
Speaker 1: often took kids in. Leanne was told not to ask questions,
Speaker 1: just to make them feel welcome. It's something that used
Speaker 1: to happen a lot when there was no wrong door
Speaker 1: for a kid to walk through. If they needed to
Speaker 1: get help from within their own community. So what was
Speaker 1: some of your first interactions with the police in ol Springs?
Speaker 3: It was assistant commissioner was His name was Sauce Grant
Speaker 3: and he was my athletics coach and amazing man. And
Speaker 3: I actually didn't realize he was Assistant commission until I
Speaker 3: was in my teenage years, because I think I would
Speaker 3: have run faster if I knew it was a placement.
Speaker 1: What was your event?
Speaker 3: I was a sprinter sprinter and he always used to
Speaker 3: say to me that he thought I could make it
Speaker 3: to the Olympics and if horses and boyfriends sticking it
Speaker 3: in the way, I might have gone there.
Speaker 1: The way things used to be has clearly informed how
Speaker 1: she's trying to address the issues confronting her people. As
Speaker 1: a young woman, she wanted to join the police force
Speaker 1: to instigate change, to run towards it.
Speaker 3: My parents wouldn't let me join the ORDINARYOI police force, ironically,
Speaker 3: so that's why I sound Australia. So they said, you
Speaker 3: can go to the border. Do you know nobody there?
Speaker 3: Off you go? And they thought, because.
Speaker 1: You don't want to be you don't want to be
Speaker 1: arresting family members and causing trouble for your.
Speaker 3: Mob, and they at that time said the nun changed
Speaker 3: police force is racist and they didn't want me to
Speaker 3: experience that, so off I went. I hadn't ever seen
Speaker 3: the traffic light before, let learn around about, so things
Speaker 3: were very different for me down there. It was very lonely.
Speaker 1: There's a photo over there from that time, leaning on
Speaker 1: a police car with the Adelaide skyline behind her. She's
Speaker 1: proudly wearing a police uniform, blue skirt, blue jumper and
Speaker 1: a big smile on her face. But being a black
Speaker 1: copper was never going to be easy. The picture doesn't
Speaker 1: come close to portraying the reality of what she was
Speaker 1: experiencing and what was ahead. Why did you decide to leave?
Speaker 3: I get injured on duty, had a terrible accident and
Speaker 3: ended up sort of having to re evaluate my life.
Speaker 3: And then at that same time I outlined some to
Speaker 3: the lawyer at the times and missions of racism and
Speaker 3: the police force, and from there it sort of snowballed
Speaker 3: into a human rights and equ opportunity to commission court
Speaker 3: matter and it ended in an out of court settlement.
Speaker 1: In the late nineties, Leale Little left and retrained as
Speaker 1: a lawyer. In the twenty ten she was working with
Speaker 1: the Attorney General to establish the Aboriginal Justice Unit. It
Speaker 1: was a job that took her all the christ the nt.
Speaker 3: So we're here at un Blood to watch hid by
Speaker 3: invitation from the Central Land Council.
Speaker 1: Her goal was to end the over policing and overincarceration
Speaker 1: of Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory. But in late
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, while Leanne was putting the finishing touches on
Speaker 1: the Aboriginal Justice Agreement, kimen Ji Walker was killed. Like
Speaker 1: much of Australia, Leanne watched the inquest unfold. When she
Speaker 1: saw the racist text messages that it dredged up the
Speaker 1: deeply racist awards ceremony run by the elite Tactical Unit,
Speaker 1: she was incensed and she couldn't let it slide.
Speaker 3: I rang the Police Commissioner and told him exactly how
Speaker 3: I felt. I think it was a little bit surprised.
Speaker 3: I suppose I was surprised that lots of other people
Speaker 3: didn't know what was happening. But that's how racism exists
Speaker 3: in the system, in small pockets, in large organizations, and
Speaker 3: they find people, you know, who think like that, who
Speaker 3: they're brave enough to say that too, and they sort
Speaker 3: of stick together. But to be perfectly honest, I was
Speaker 3: impressed by what people were saying to me next that
Speaker 3: they too, as police officers, were ashamed and embarrassed and
Speaker 3: sorry for the you know what was exposed. I think
Speaker 3: it was a moment of shame and embarrassment and for me,
Speaker 3: the police force needed to own that if we were
Speaker 3: to move forward in fixing what needed to be fixed.
Speaker 1: It was off the back of this call that Leanne
Speaker 1: made a decision that I'm not sure many people in
Speaker 1: her position would make. After her parents warned her the
Speaker 1: police were after she felt pushed out of the force
Speaker 1: by a treatment as the first Aboriginal police officer. After
Speaker 1: watching the inquest and seeing everything get laid bare, Leanne
Speaker 1: went back. She rejoined the police for the same reason
Speaker 1: she's ever done anything.
Speaker 3: Because I think I can make a difference. I think
Speaker 3: that I really have the skills that can work with
Speaker 3: other people in a team to make a difference.
Speaker 1: Now, as the Executive Director of the Community Resilience and
Speaker 1: Engagement Command for the Northern Territory Police Force, she's specifically
Speaker 1: tasked with tackling and rooting out racism in the force.
Speaker 3: It sounds like a big task, but at the same time,
Speaker 3: there should be no racism in a police force and
Speaker 3: people should be able to work in a professional space
Speaker 3: and be their best and not only do non averageal
Speaker 3: people don't wantist and average and people don't want racism.
Speaker 3: So I think that's a perfect recipe for me to
Speaker 3: come in and create an environment and train people up
Speaker 3: and encourage people to call out racism when they see it,
Speaker 3: to have complaint mechanisms in place for people when it
Speaker 3: is raised.
Speaker 1: Leanne has the duel task of stopping racism towards Aboriginal
Speaker 1: offices and changing the way cops police Aboriginal people. So
Speaker 1: where does she even start. She's aiming to get thirty
Speaker 1: percent Aboriginal on torrest Ratland the people on the force.
Speaker 1: She says, the lack of lived experience and decision making
Speaker 1: at every level has led to so many of the
Speaker 1: problems here. There's also a number of other measures like
Speaker 1: training police and cultural awareness and strengthening complainte systems so
Speaker 1: officers have somewhere to go when they see or experience racism.
Speaker 1: As Leanne runs through these measures for me, I can't
Speaker 1: help but think it's like putting a band aid on
Speaker 1: a gaping wound. She's trying to make these changes at
Speaker 1: a time when the powerful Territory Police union has said
Speaker 1: it things cops are being unfairly for racism. How do
Speaker 1: you change police officers who don't want to be changed?
Speaker 1: You say the blame shouldn't be all placed on them.
Speaker 1: It's a reminder that the most powerful person in the
Speaker 1: justice system is the cop on the beat. They're the
Speaker 1: ones that can taste pepper spray or shoot you on
Speaker 1: the spot.
Speaker 3: They are the law.
Speaker 1: Prosecutors can only prosecute, judges can only sentence. If a
Speaker 1: cop resists change, then that can be one cop too many,
Speaker 1: And to change things, Leanne is going to have to
Speaker 1: deal with every type of cop. The more we talk,
Speaker 1: the more real our conversation becomes. It feels like the
Speaker 1: enormity of the task is hitting her, and so returns
Speaker 1: to why she's persevering in spite of it all.
Speaker 3: I remember when I was a kid going to school
Speaker 3: and I was really good at sport, like I was
Speaker 3: a really fast runner, and I was a school captain,
Speaker 3: and there was a able girl who had cerebral palsy,
Speaker 3: and I was in charge of who was on the relay,
Speaker 3: and she wanted to run, and everyone was saying to me,
Speaker 3: don't let her run, don't let her run. She'll you know,
Speaker 3: she's gonna We're gonna lose if you let her run.
Speaker 3: And I'll just sat there. Way let her run, And
Speaker 3: it made her day when she ran. So I'm going
Speaker 3: to get upsets. Inclusivetivity is important.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people just need a chance.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Nate came from my mom. She was always she
Speaker 3: taught us. It's she died twelve months ago, so raw.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I just came across the tenth anniversary of my
Speaker 1: dad passing. In tenth I thought it'd be over it
Speaker 1: by then, but you don't get over it, just deal
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 3: I worry about who replaces people are my dad. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, they were warriors, still are and that fire
Speaker 3: and the belly stuff. You know, they dealt with so
Speaker 3: much more than what we deal with, and we think
Speaker 3: we're done by but when they go, you know, what
Speaker 3: are we like? We've got to keep fighting for what's
Speaker 3: what's fair.
Speaker 1: Just seems to me that here in the territory, if
Speaker 1: you're Aboriginal, no matter how strong your role models have been,
Speaker 1: how they've nurtured and cared for you. Even in the
Speaker 1: best of circumstances, you are invariably that far away from
Speaker 1: crossing over to another line because of all the societal
Speaker 1: factors and attitude of little factors. Do you think that's
Speaker 1: a fair statement.
Speaker 3: It's an absolute correct statement. No matter how wealthy I am,
Speaker 3: no matter how will I dress, no matter how high
Speaker 3: I am in as a position title, no matter what
Speaker 3: sort of car I drive, no matter how many degrees
Speaker 3: I've got. I've got five, I think. But for me
Speaker 3: it's irrelevant. I'm still an Aboriginal person that is not
Speaker 3: looked at for someone who's been successful. And I hate
Speaker 3: this question because people say, what did your parents do
Speaker 3: differently to be the way that you and your family
Speaker 3: are to be who they are today? And I say
Speaker 3: you should be asking yourself that question. What didn't those
Speaker 3: other kids get or what has happened to them so
Speaker 3: that they didn't succeed?
Speaker 1: We thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: After the interview, I spent a good part of the
Speaker 1: day walking around town. I landed at the Todd Tavern,
Speaker 1: the flash point that sparked the chaos that brought me
Speaker 1: to weller springs. In the first place, there's a front
Speaker 1: bar and a back bar. In the front bar were
Speaker 1: a couple of gray nomads sitting down for a cannonmill.
Speaker 1: The place is almost empty. As I turn the corner
Speaker 1: and go into the back bar, it's full of Aboriginal
Speaker 1: people speaking in language, playing Poky's and buying jugs of beer.
Speaker 1: Two security guards march up and down the room. It's dark.
Speaker 1: The windows are almost entirely blacked out, so people can't
Speaker 1: see out, and people can't see in the front bar
Speaker 1: and the back bar sum up the gulf between the
Speaker 1: two worlds in one small town, one filled with light,
Speaker 1: comfort and room to think, the other dark, crowded and confined,
Speaker 1: a place known locally as the animal bar. As I
Speaker 1: looked out the window, some young Aboriginal kids with broad,
Speaker 1: cheeky smiles were pushing their faces up against the glass
Speaker 1: of the tavern. One was being lifted up by our mum.
Speaker 1: Months earlier, kids not much older had been hurling themselves
Speaker 1: at the same windows, trying to break through. Later I'd
Speaker 1: find out that lawyers logged a human rights complain against
Speaker 1: the Antique government and police Commissioner Michael Murphy. The lawyers
Speaker 1: alleged that three unnamed Aboriginal police officers experienced racial vilification, derision,
Speaker 1: and unequal pay for twenty years. In response, the police
Speaker 1: commissioner says he's committed to cultural reform of the force.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, the streets of Alice Springs remained divided,
Speaker 1: a listless hype bed of tension and chaos, people angered,
Speaker 1: knowing the leavers to change things are just out of reach.
Speaker 1: This is Alice Springs next episode. As politicians threaten hardline solutions,
Speaker 1: I'm returning to Arunda Country to explore a different way forward.
Speaker 10: Territorians have stood up against nearly two decades of escalating
Speaker 10: crime and economy going backwards, and the erosion of our
Speaker 10: once iconic lifestyle.
Speaker 8: But tomorrow is the start of a new days.
Speaker 1: Do you see a long term future here for yourself
Speaker 1: and your family.
Speaker 11: At the moment, No, they're saying, oh, we'll put everybody
Speaker 11: in jail.
Speaker 5: Set the plan that everybody in the Northern Church who
Speaker 5: will either be a prisoner or a warden by the
Speaker 5: year twenty fifty.
Speaker 4: I've seen a chemical here that actually.
Speaker 1: Works with a chemical
Speaker 4: Chemical is back on the country