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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Heart of It. We are

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Speaker 1: recording on gaddigal Land and my goodness, honey, was that fresh?

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Speaker 2: At what is so unique?

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Speaker 3: So unique?

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Speaker 2: John Butler and Ma mckin also known as Danielle Carojuana.

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Speaker 2: Where our guests are our guests today and we've just

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Speaker 2: gotten off the line.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to get off the line. There were

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Speaker 1: so much more that they could have spoken about. And

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Speaker 1: they've written just the most soul searing songs, and they've

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Speaker 1: done so much with their music, and they've played on

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Speaker 1: stages across the world. But more than that, they've created

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Speaker 1: kind of movements of music and activism and a lot

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Speaker 1: of generosity as well.

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Speaker 2: And beyond all the accolades that they've shared as a

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Speaker 2: couple and also individually the partners in love and in art,

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Speaker 2: I just want you to listen to the to this

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Speaker 2: podcast all the way to the end, because they use

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Speaker 2: art in the most profoundly beautiful way and it's I've

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Speaker 2: never heard it put that way before.

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Speaker 3: Let's just welcome Alan, John, have a listen.

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Speaker 2: Daniel and John, welcome to the Heart of It. It's

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Speaker 2: it's a privilege for us to have you here because

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Speaker 2: I get the feeling. You guys don't do a lot.

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Speaker 4: Of these No, no, not together.

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Speaker 2: Which is brilliant because we are a relationship podcast.

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Speaker 3: We are, we are weship.

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Speaker 5: We thought we were coming in for some for some

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Speaker 5: chats a projects, Yes.

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Speaker 2: We can do that.

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Speaker 4: We don't.

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Speaker 2: We don't mind a bit to do relationship they are.

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Speaker 5: Relationships are DIY projects.

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Speaker 1: And forever di y project right like it's forever in

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Speaker 1: a day.

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Speaker 3: It never stops.

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Speaker 2: It's called maintenance, honey.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Can we take you back to the very beginning of

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Speaker 1: when you two first laid eyes on each other?

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Speaker 3: And what was that?

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Speaker 1: Where?

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Speaker 3: How and when? And what happened?

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Speaker 4: What year? It's nineteen ninety eight, No, it's nine.

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Speaker 5: Leave the years to me. I've got the I do

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Speaker 5: the I do the details and the chronology. So I'm

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Speaker 5: going to take this one ninety ninety nine. It was

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Speaker 5: May and I had driven across the country in the

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Speaker 5: combe that I had bought from my ex boyfriend. And

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Speaker 5: I was traveling with an Irish backpacker who and we

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Speaker 5: had busked doing yeah busted along the way. And we've

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Speaker 5: gone all the way down the scoop at the Southwest,

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Speaker 5: driven over from Melbourne, and we pulled up in this

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Speaker 5: town called Fremantle. We've been told to go to a

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Speaker 5: new edition bookshop and to Gino's, the restaurant on the mainstream.

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Speaker 5: And I tightened up my turban that was slowly turning

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Speaker 5: my hair into dreads, and I put a little bit

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Speaker 5: extra petulia on my skin and jumped out of the

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Speaker 5: van and realized I had no idea where I was

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Speaker 5: and asked someone for directions, and that someone was John No.

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Speaker 2: No, oh wow.

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Speaker 1: And then from there you got each other's numb No.

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Speaker 5: No, it's actually a crazy story of like it was like,

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Speaker 5: you know, if you can't of believe in the universe

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Speaker 5: and magnets, I'll put it this way. If you believe

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Speaker 5: in magnets, we were We were our magnets were just

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Speaker 5: thrown together over and over again, like almost smashed up

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Speaker 5: against each other until about, you know, ten times later,

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Speaker 5: we were like, hey, maybe there's something happening here. I mean,

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Speaker 5: how can I be bumping into you in this remote

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Speaker 5: location now? So basically the next day I was riding

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Speaker 5: through town and he oyed me from across the street.

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Speaker 5: He oyed me oi, What I was like, excuse me?

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Speaker 5: And also turns out he's not someone who always like

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Speaker 5: he's actually a controvert, and he's not someone to yell

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Speaker 5: across the street, and he was so what.

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Speaker 2: Positioned you to give the OI? John? At that point?

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Speaker 4: The OI was just like, you know, the day before

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Speaker 4: she was asking for directions and now she's riding her

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Speaker 4: bike through town like a local. That's kind of what

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Speaker 4: I said. I was like, Oh, it's a really strange thing,

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Speaker 4: like when I like, I'll do that like I'm an

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Speaker 4: extrovert when I'm really comfortable or or I'm on stage,

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Speaker 4: but strange kind of yeah, you know the deal. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I just saw her and something, you know, from probably

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Speaker 4: in hindsight, something from very deep within, was like you

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Speaker 4: should get her attention. So I owed her from across

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Speaker 4: the street. I was busking. I literally had my trolley

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Speaker 4: and my amp and I was selling tapes on the street.

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Speaker 4: And I'm like, what are you doing in town? Like

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Speaker 4: how can you be local already? Like how dare you

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Speaker 4: think you can be? So I was totally coming on.

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Speaker 4: I was taking the piss. I was already already in

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Speaker 4: humor world really really quickly. And yeah, and then and

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Speaker 4: literally didn't see her again for another two weeks and

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Speaker 4: then we saw you at Mojo's and then yeah, don't

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Speaker 4: worry about the time. And then a couple of months

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Speaker 4: later I see her down there, like, you know, close

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Speaker 4: to a blockade down way down south, three hours away.

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Speaker 4: And then another few months later I saw it from Broom.

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Speaker 4: I was I was opening up for the waist and

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Speaker 4: she's like, hey, you should make maybe mix some music

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Speaker 4: with my brother Nikki Bombo. Yeah. Whatever, And then like

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Speaker 4: two months later after that, I circumnavigated the country in

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Speaker 4: my van and pulled into Broom like literally the day

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Speaker 4: I pulled in, I pulled right up to this place

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Speaker 4: in front of Bob's shoe shop, and Dan is literally

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Speaker 4: leaning on a pole in front of in front of

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Speaker 4: my parking spot, like thing, here's this bitch again? What

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Speaker 4: the hell? Like, holy shit, here she is, and like recorded, sorry,

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Speaker 4: I think you get it. And then she's like what

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Speaker 4: do you dotting to tell mister Butler. I'm like this

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Speaker 4: woman again, what is up?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 4: So that was over a span of a year.

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Speaker 5: No, not true. This is what I'm saying. I do

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Speaker 5: the chronology. Everything he said is true other than the timeline. Okay,

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Speaker 5: if you want the proper detailsn't give them to you.

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Speaker 4: But they are having months.

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Speaker 5: From the May when you pulled and I saw you

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Speaker 5: in May, you pulled up in the at the bakery

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Speaker 5: in September.

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Speaker 4: June, July, okay, so foremost so we saw each other. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: but six times, six times, many strange places, over and

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Speaker 4: over again and went and we were just dumb to

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Speaker 4: realize that maybe the universe had some other plans for us.

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Speaker 5: They weren't. And then we weren't too dumb. Then we

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Speaker 5: jumped on that.

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Speaker 2: Did did you jump on that in broom? After that

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Speaker 2: being leaning against the pole? Is that where you jumped

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Speaker 2: on it in broom?

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Speaker 5: Or was leaning against the pole? Then we end up

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Speaker 5: so still we like whatever, I see you later, and

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Speaker 5: then we end up at the same party two nights

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Speaker 5: later again whatever, And then we end up And then

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Speaker 5: I found out.

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Speaker 4: That at that party, I was like, she's actually really hot.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but I something else by the fire and got

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Speaker 5: completely eaten by sand flies. And he was hovering just

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Speaker 5: being like, I hope she wakes up and maybe I

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Speaker 5: can invite it back to my vain.

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Speaker 4: He sounds so creepy. No, watching sleep, Yeah.

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Speaker 5: He was watching sleep and then and then the next

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Speaker 5: week chronologically speaking, he was playing at the Diver's Tavern

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Speaker 5: Broom in Broom and everyone was going and I was

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Speaker 5: like John Butler, oh yeah, yeah, yeah that guy, yeah yeah,

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Speaker 5: and went to the gig and from the moment I

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Speaker 5: walked in and saw him, he was doing his he

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Speaker 5: was changing his strings at the table, and I walked

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Speaker 5: straight over to him and we had this huge embrace

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Speaker 5: like this, like as if we were old friends. It's

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Speaker 5: like hey, and it was like we're still hugging. Yep,

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Speaker 5: we're still hugging. Okay, we're still hugging. It was like

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Speaker 5: one of those things of like I don't want to

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Speaker 5: let go. No, no, no, one's letting go. I was like,

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Speaker 5: I'll get you a drink. I literally got in my

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Speaker 5: glass of water from the bar and brought him back water.

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Speaker 5: And then we did this thing all night where we

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Speaker 5: just got each other glasses of water. And then after

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Speaker 5: the gig, he was surrounded by people just being like

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Speaker 5: where and I reached I grabbed the glass of water.

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Speaker 5: I reached it across everybody and I just held it

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Speaker 5: in the air and he grabbed the glass of water

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Speaker 5: and he's like, please, don't go anywhere. Across the across

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Speaker 5: the whole crowd of people. He's like, pywere like, I'm

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Speaker 5: not going anywhere and that, and then that night we

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Speaker 5: hung out.

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Speaker 3: Very good.

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Speaker 2: It's a very cinematic story, it is.

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Speaker 3: It was very wrong calm.

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Speaker 5: It was so I mean, Broom is such a romantic town,

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Speaker 5: you know, like, yeah, you feel like you're on the

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Speaker 5: edge of the possibility of everything there, and it was

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Speaker 5: a it was a really liminal and transformative time for

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Speaker 5: me anyway in my whole life journey that late nineties, late.

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Speaker 3: Nineties, were already playing music.

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Speaker 5: Full of collagen, like we just had so much college

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Speaker 5: was literally just drooping off us.

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Speaker 3: I remember those days. Those days.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, see, we were married, but

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Speaker 2: we were. We were well into our marriage. We actually

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Speaker 2: had our first child by the late nineties, so we

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Speaker 2: were real yeah yeah, yeah, ninety six, we had our

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Speaker 2: first and we were very much entrenched in that early

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Speaker 2: parenting stage where you're not you're just trying to get

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Speaker 2: sleep and navigate all that world. So, yeah, you guys

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Speaker 2: are giving us an education.

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Speaker 1: But Danielle, were you already doing music at that point

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Speaker 1: as well?

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Speaker 5: So I was, I was constantly in this cycle of

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Speaker 5: trying to treat music like my hobby but denying I

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Speaker 5: really wanted to do it, but it was this kind

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Speaker 5: of constant, sort of resurging thing of like I'm still here,

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Speaker 5: I'm not going away. So I had this thing going

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Speaker 5: in broom where we set up this weekly jam at

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Speaker 5: a cafe where I pulled these group of musicos together

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Speaker 5: and we would do this all these songs and they

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Speaker 5: would give us a bowl of luxe in return, which

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Speaker 5: was a fantastic deal. But I was living out on

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Speaker 5: a community at the time, Midliviniari with the Galara Baloo

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Speaker 5: out at Coconut Wells, and we just it was a

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Speaker 5: chance for me to bring all of these old songs

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Speaker 5: that I had learned through my dad, who was an

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Speaker 5: avid country fan, to the campfire with this crew, and

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Speaker 5: it was like the thing we it was the place

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Speaker 5: we met, you know. It was our cultural kind of

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Speaker 5: cross point cultural ven diagram was country music. So I

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Speaker 5: had many many nights of just kind of re finding

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Speaker 5: my voice and learning all these chords on the guitar

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Speaker 5: again with this beautiful family, the First Nation's indigenous family

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Speaker 5: that lived out and I lived with on in coconut

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Speaker 5: wells amazing. So there was a burgeoning happening, but I

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Speaker 5: also very quickly stamped it out once I kind of

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Speaker 5: once I kind of got into a world with John,

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Speaker 5: and I slipped back into a support role, or slipped

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Speaker 5: into a support role, which was my wheelhouse, my strong

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Speaker 5: suit and my brother Nikki, and so yeah, I just

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Speaker 5: that's a whole other story.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I asked her to marry me really really quickly.

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Speaker 4: I kind of knew, which is really weird, because I

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Speaker 4: didn't want to get married. I was an interested in

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Speaker 4: marriage and Dan doesn't really believe in that old school

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Speaker 4: idea of marriage. But I asked her to marry me

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Speaker 4: because something was like you need to splice your DNA

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Speaker 4: with her. This is the best chance for your people,

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Speaker 4: literally like deep within it was like, if you want

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Speaker 4: any chance for your genemical legacy, this is the best

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Speaker 4: I can say that, but like it was deep. But

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Speaker 4: at the moment I saw her, I knew she was

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Speaker 4: a musician, and I knew she had deep rhythm, which

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Speaker 4: I was inspired by because I love rhythm. And I

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Speaker 4: asked her parents for her hand, and that was the

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Speaker 4: first thing her mom said. Ira says like she's a musician.

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Speaker 4: Are you going to support her? And I was like,

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Speaker 4: thank thank goodness that you think so too, because I

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Speaker 4: think so. But she's denying it. And then she spent

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Speaker 4: you know, literally the next four years denying it in

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Speaker 4: different ways from from complete denial to fits of rage.

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Speaker 4: Don't talk to me about my music, now, mention my music. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and this is all Meanwhile, my career is just like

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Speaker 4: literally vertical, vertical. Yeah, we're touring ten months a year

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Speaker 4: for ten years as a family with cloth nappies on

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Speaker 4: buses like we in there. But yeah, Dan's music was

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Speaker 4: always there, and you know, and I was always buying

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Speaker 4: her you know, like a wurlitzer or ukulele or like, hey,

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Speaker 4: this is this is the thing. Whether you want to

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Speaker 4: recognize it or not. Now I can see it because

248
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Speaker 4: this is what I chase daily. This is why I

249
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Speaker 4: chased it for the hours of the morning. Is thing

250
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Speaker 4: that you actually have. It just seems to come out

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Speaker 4: of you like so easily, like it comes out of

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Speaker 4: Nicky Bomba and Michael Carojuana, her brothers.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, Dan, he was unknowable you because you

254
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Speaker 1: come from a family of storytellers and magicians, which is

255
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Speaker 1: just phenomenal and John music was literally passed to you

256
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Speaker 1: through your grandfather's dobro, which is what an incredible story.

257
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Speaker 1: How how do you both see your family heritage showing

258
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Speaker 1: up in the way you make music and live your

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Speaker 1: lives from your past and your history.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Dan's family is like marinated in music, whether that's

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Speaker 4: at birthday parties, Christmases, New Year's Eve, there's always song

262
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Speaker 4: and it's just always their family bands the lot. I

263
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:55,040
Speaker 4: had this this kind of strange ex caliber stuck in

264
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Speaker 4: the rock in the form of a dobro that you

265
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Speaker 4: know that my grandfather played, and he died in nineteen

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Speaker 4: fifty eight and in a bushfire and left it to

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Speaker 4: his eight kids, and none of them learned, So there

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00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,080
Speaker 4: wasn't music in my family. There was just this ex

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Speaker 4: caliber of a guitar stuck in a rock that everybody

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Speaker 4: talked about, and everybody tried to pull it out of

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Speaker 4: a rock and no one did or could or stuck

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Speaker 4: with it. So literally no one played music in our family.

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Speaker 4: But there was always literally this slide guitar underneath my

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Speaker 4: grandmother's bed waiting for a person. And as a sixteen

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Speaker 4: year old or thirteen year old who was learning how

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Speaker 4: to play guitar because he wanted to learn stay Word

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Speaker 4: to Heaven and TNT. And by the time I was sixteen,

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Speaker 4: my relationship with music was just it was a great friend.

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Speaker 4: I used it as a journal, as a diary, and

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Speaker 4: my grandmother saw that. I never wanted to be a

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Speaker 4: professional musician. I never wanted to be anything. I just

282
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Speaker 4: it was just it was just a friend. And in

283
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Speaker 4: doing so I kind of stumbled up to that that

284
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Speaker 4: ex caliber and pulled it out, not wanting it, not

285
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Speaker 4: wanting that guitara, not wanting to be a musician, but

286
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Speaker 4: just having a relationship with music that my grandmother saw.

287
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Speaker 4: So yeah, and that's kind of where it started. And

288
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Speaker 4: then I busked from there and stuff like that. But

289
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Speaker 4: it was never anything I was really raised with other

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Speaker 4: than folklore now Dan, Yeah.

291
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Speaker 5: For me, it was it was how my family survived,

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Speaker 5: being immigrants.

293
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Speaker 2: And immigrants from where.

294
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Speaker 5: So my both of my parents are from Malta and

295
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Speaker 5: they had four children there before immigrating to Australia in

296
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Speaker 5: the sixties and then had my sister and I in Australia.

297
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Speaker 5: So I'm one of six and my dad was a

298
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Speaker 5: you know, my mom came from a performer family because

299
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Speaker 5: it was her father who was the magician. But my

300
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,760
Speaker 5: dad was a very frustrated musician. He really loved music

301
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Speaker 5: and loved performing, but he was never allowed to. So

302
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,160
Speaker 5: he was vowed that his children would so when he moved,

303
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,760
Speaker 5: when they moved to Australia, it was an absolute imperative

304
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,120
Speaker 5: that the kids, everyone had to learn and do music.

305
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Speaker 5: And it was how we softened the blow for our

306
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,960
Speaker 5: Maltese community who were doing it tough as as immigrants,

307
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Speaker 5: as far as that was the era where people you know,

308
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 5: were called greasywogs and you know, they were told to

309
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,320
Speaker 5: go back to their country, you know, in the supermarkets

310
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Speaker 5: and yelled at yeah. And so our house was the

311
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Speaker 5: house where people came for a respite and part of

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Speaker 5: that respite was music. And that's built out to become

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00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,520
Speaker 5: the Maltese community center, and that became dinner dancers, and

314
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Speaker 5: my brothers and sisters were the family band for every engagement, wedding, baptism,

315
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Speaker 5: first hole of communion, confirmation, dinner dance, every twenty first

316
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Speaker 5: like every single thing that happened. We were the soundtrack

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Speaker 5: to it. And I realized in hindsight that we were.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's a real important role in softening the

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Speaker 5: blow of you know, they weren't playing only Maltese songs.

320
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Speaker 5: We were playing songs of this new place they were playing,

321
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Speaker 5: you know, and it was a really important kind of

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00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,719
Speaker 5: bridge to build and just the the innocence and the

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00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:22,240
Speaker 5: purity of joy through celebrating music, live music. So it

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Speaker 5: was completely entrenched for me. By the time I was born,

325
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,280
Speaker 5: that was all completely in full swing, like the youngest

326
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 5: by a long way, so much so that when I

327
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:33,720
Speaker 5: came back from my first day at school, I came

328
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,919
Speaker 5: back in tears to my sister, who was, you know,

329
00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,600
Speaker 5: in a lot of ways, my quasi mum, because she

330
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,680
Speaker 5: was fourteen when I was born, just going. I went

331
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,440
Speaker 5: around asking all the kids what they play, and they

332
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,640
Speaker 5: were talking about netball, and they were talking about all

333
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,080
Speaker 5: these other games and hop scotch and no one said piano,

334
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,320
Speaker 5: and no one said drums, and no one said you know.

335
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 5: She was like, oh, what do you mean what we're doing?

336
00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,960
Speaker 5: You know, like you got to get in there and below,

337
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,040
Speaker 5: you know, I was like no, no, Like I.

338
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Speaker 6: Was like, what did you play? Just try to find

339
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,280
Speaker 6: out who I'm going to be into bed with. You know,

340
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 6: it's just like, yeah, I did not. I thought everyone

341
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:14,119
Speaker 6: spoke Maltese and English and played an instrument that was

342
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:14,639
Speaker 6: my world.

343
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Speaker 5: And it was a rude shock and then and then

344
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 5: completely something that I completely rejected later on in life.

345
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Speaker 2: So forgive me if if you said this was was that?

346
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,360
Speaker 4: Was that in Victoria? Yeah?

347
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 5: That was western suburbs of Melbourne. So we were in

348
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 5: Newport before it was cool. And I was born in

349
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 5: Williamstown and then we moved out to Hoppers Crossing. Oh right,

350
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,400
Speaker 5: so proper west western suburbs of Melbourne.

351
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,360
Speaker 2: So what was it like? Just getting back to when

352
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:53,400
Speaker 2: you first got together?

353
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 4: What was it like?

354
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Speaker 2: You obviously knew John was in muso he I mean

355
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 2: you John? You said you you felt like Dan was

356
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,160
Speaker 2: a music, You could feel the music in her. What

357
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 2: was it like when you first played together and sung

358
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,439
Speaker 2: and conjured a tune together?

359
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:10,879
Speaker 4: What was that?

360
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 2: Do you have a memory of that?

361
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 5: Do you remember?

362
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 4: I remember I did? Do you?

363
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:17,159
Speaker 5: What do you think? When do you think?

364
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:17,440
Speaker 4: Were?

365
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 7: I can tell you the window you can probably tell

366
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 7: me in the location GPS is a bit stronger, but

367
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 7: I want to say it's uh arrested development.

368
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,399
Speaker 4: I feel like we sang everyday people. That's like one

369
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 4: of the first things kind of sing together.

370
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,240
Speaker 5: Way earlier than that, we did something in your Duke

371
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 5: Street house. We sat on the couch. I didn't sing,

372
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 5: but I played udu and you played guitar.

373
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, yeah, And that was our first kind of

374
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 8: little jam, like well, that was fun, and then we

375
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 8: kind of really left it until we got to living

376
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 8: in Son Andrews together and we got the Gillian Welsh

377
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 8: album and the Gillian Welsh Dave Rawling's album that Jeff

378
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,959
Speaker 8: Lange gave to John Time the Revelator, and that that

379
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 8: actually the banjo on that on that album and those harmonies.

380
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 8: It was like that was a real doorway for me

381
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 8: of going, I don't know how long I'm going to

382
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 8: be able to keep this this desire to play and

383
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 8: sing at Bay, Like I don't know how I felt

384
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 8: it coming for me.

385
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 5: So there was something about that album and then I

386
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 5: think we start and then you taught me slive. You

387
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:30,959
Speaker 5: taught me some slat and we had a little bit

388
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,360
Speaker 5: of like playing together then. But it was really it

389
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 5: was so much trepidation there because I trained him really

390
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 5: well to stay away from it because I was in

391
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 5: a real. It felt so fragile to me, and it

392
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 5: felt really like it felt very private. Yeah, it felt

393
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 5: really private, and it felt like he didn't understand how

394
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 5: different it was for me then and how prolific it

395
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 5: was for him, and that I didn't want and so

396
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 5: I was like it was a no go zone. It

397
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,160
Speaker 5: really was a no go zone. Like he I would

398
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 5: be like, just can you not ever ask me to

399
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 5: ever again, like play a song with you in front

400
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 5: of other people, or play that thing I was practicing

401
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 5: the other night, like like like that is that is

402
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 5: just a that's the end of the night for me.

403
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 5: I recover from that.

404
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 4: It was just such a trigger trigger point for Dan,

405
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 4: I think, you know, to go into the psychology of it.

406
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 4: She never she vowed she'd never end up with the music,

407
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 4: you know, like she had watched you know, just the

408
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,679
Speaker 4: music scene in general kind of uh and and and

409
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 4: guys in it, you know, especially back then, and she's

410
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 4: just like, I don't want anything to do with that.

411
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 4: And also it's just not my scene. And her two

412
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 4: older brothers were so prolific and like it just falls

413
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,239
Speaker 4: out of them, like Nicki and Michael, it's just like

414
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 4: they you put them in a room at a Christmas

415
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 4: or a holy holy reunion baptism or or what you

416
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 4: or it doesn't matter where holy reunion, what is that

417
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 4: communiton reunion? And literally everybody will be singing around them.

418
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 4: It just falls out of them. And when you're around them,

419
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 4: you're like, oh, I'm definitely not AMusA like them. So

420
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 4: that's what she thought, you know, And I think then

421
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 4: getting together with me was just like, Okay, I never

422
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 4: thought I would say yes to getting married because I

423
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 4: don't believe in it. Second of all Amuso. And then

424
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 4: this Muso happened to be like taking off and be

425
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 4: pretty tunnel vision and quite righteous and intense. She once

426
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,360
Speaker 4: again just kind of fell into that support role. Oh,

427
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 4: this is what it is to me and Musa to

428
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,479
Speaker 4: be that, to be that passionate, to be that it

429
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 4: falls out of you all the time, and it's like that.

430
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 4: And so so when I would go, come on, I

431
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 4: can see what you got, she'd just like, no, no,

432
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 4: especially once we started having kids, in the kind of

433
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 4: pressures of all that life, so coming in it was

434
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 4: just like a trigger point asking Dan to play music

435
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 4: or play music with me, or show somebody a song.

436
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 4: It was like, do you not bring it up because

437
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 4: it's way. It's like, don't mention the war.

438
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 3: It's just yeah, yeah, it's too sacred.

439
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 5: It was also like a really awesome, heady mix of

440
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 5: being in a support role and being resentful and that's

441
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 5: suiting me just fine, Like that sended my story just fine.

442
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 5: I got to stay RESTful and I got to weaponar.

443
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 5: Like it was, there was a payoff there, and it

444
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 5: was only kind of getting to the bottom of that

445
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 5: payoff and that understanding of how toxic that was, not

446
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 5: just for me just to remain trapped in that role

447
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 5: of like, yeah, you get to have it, but I

448
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 5: can't have it, can I? You know? Like it was,

449
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 5: there was a it was a dirty little it was

450
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 5: a dirty little story. I was running for when and

451
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 5: for other people?

452
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 3: And when did that shift?

453
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: Because clearly you've embraced it now, So at what point

454
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: did you go fuck it like I'm owning it, this

455
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: is who I am. I'm I'm you know, when did

456
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 1: that point happen for you?

457
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 5: So I was I had really quite severe post natal

458
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 5: depression with both the kids, not straight away either, it

459
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 5: was both times once I finished breastfeeding them. So it

460
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 5: was constantly like I was having, you know, quite a

461
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,719
Speaker 5: bit of therapy, and this theme was coming up over

462
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 5: and over again, and I wasn't really didn't really know

463
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 5: how to get out of it. It was certainly driving

464
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 5: a wedge between not just me and John, but me

465
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 5: and my actual feeling of life force to be denying

466
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 5: this thing that was so intrinsic to who I am,

467
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 5: and it was taking so much energy to deny it.

468
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 5: It was taking far in hindsight, far more energy to

469
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 5: deny it than it took to embrace it. But I

470
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 5: didn't know that at the time because the risk felt

471
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 5: greater than the reward could ever have been at that time,

472
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 5: and the risk of being exposed. And also I had

473
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 5: so much proof I had roof by then. By then,

474
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 5: John was you know, incredibly successful internationally, and I was like, what,

475
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 5: am I gonna come out now and start releasing music

476
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 5: and be like John Butler's wife, are you kidding me?

477
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 5: Like can you?

478
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 4: Like?

479
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 5: The press are gonna love telling stories about John and

480
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 5: criticizing John Butler's Wife's music. So that was even more

481
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 5: proof that I shouldn't do it. So the breaking point

482
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 5: was John was on tour, I was at home with

483
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 5: the kids, Banjo. I was Jarlie was already asleep. I

484
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 5: was putting tucking Banjo into bed, and she said, you know,

485
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 5: we're having the snuggles and the love and she's like,

486
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 5: are you gonna go play music in the land room again? Mum.

487
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, I don't know yet. Go do

488
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 5: the dishes and I'm gonna do the thing. You know,

489
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 5: got the story. Yeah, I got to do the dishes

490
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 5: and blah blah blah. She's like yeah, and when you know,

491
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 5: she's kind asked about John Wins, pap wins, Papa back

492
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 5: blah blah blah. Yeah's back soon. And then she's like,

493
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 5: why does Papa play music for other people but you

494
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 5: never play music for other people? Why does Papa do

495
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 5: it on stage and you only do it in the

496
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 5: lound room? And I got so triggered and I went

497
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 5: into a rash of rage. Poor thing, and I was like,

498
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 5: I'll tell you why. Because I'm your mom. That's why

499
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 5: I can't do it. Because i'm your mom. I'm busy

500
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 5: being your mom. And she was like, like so shocked,

501
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 5: And I was so shocked that those words had come

502
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 5: out of my mouth. I felt like I felt like

503
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 5: I had like poured poison on my kid.

504
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: It was the most weaponized motherhood.

505
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 5: I had weaponized mothering her against her, not just motherhood,

506
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 5: but mothering her. I've used her as a shield as

507
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 5: an excuse to not do like and I quickly just

508
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 5: tucked her in and I realized I was not okay.

509
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 5: I quickly country and was like, okay, I'm gonna went

510
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 5: into my room and just cried it out. And it

511
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 5: was the edge for me. It was the absolute edge

512
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 5: of shame. And I was so ashamed that I could

513
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 5: have ever said that to my daughter.

514
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 9: I was so.

515
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 5: It was just a total call to action of like,

516
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 5: the stakes are just too high now, and you're going

517
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 5: to give You're going to spend your life avoiding this thing,

518
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 5: resenting the people you love the most for it, and

519
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 5: then you're going to give it to her. And you're

520
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 5: going to give it to Jarlie.

521
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 4: In the sense of being such a strong feminist and

522
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 4: such a strong woman and operator, you know, in a gun,

523
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 4: just in daily life, everywhere within our business and everywhere

524
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,959
Speaker 4: in our own life. And it's gone, Oh, this is

525
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 4: such the anti feminist kind of story that I'm now

526
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 4: delivering to my legacy of like work. I'm to my

527
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 4: only daughter as a feminist as this one, you know

528
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 4: that you can do everything that this world is for you,

529
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,239
Speaker 4: and it's not just theirs and then spurning it out

530
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 4: of her mouth. Oh no, it's it's because I'm you know.

531
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 4: It just was the opposite of everything she stood for,

532
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 4: and it was such a liminal and crossroads moment. It

533
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 4: was a crossroads moment, you know. It's just like it

534
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 4: was like, you.

535
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 9: Know, before that statement and after, Yeah, because it had

536
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 9: so many personal, spiritual, mental health and political overturns and

537
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 9: generational Yeah, they all just came together like, oh, I

538
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 9: see the matrix and I am now.

539
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 4: Choosing whatever pill an the other one, the one where

540
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 4: you remember, yeah.

541
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's so beautiful that it came from the

542
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: heart of a child though, right Like I feel like

543
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: it had to be from the heart of a child,

544
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: and particularly your child, because you know, if someone else

545
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: had have thrown that at you, you would have just

546
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: gone whatever would have happened. But to have come from her,

547
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: I just think there couldn't have been a more perfect

548
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: person to just simply ask that question.

549
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 5: I literally said, I rang her the other day when

550
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 5: I when I debuted at number two on the charts.

551
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 3: I rang her congratulations. I saw that that is phenomenal.

552
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 5: And I said, hey, this is yours. Had you not

553
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 5: had you not, I'm now going to get my shop, had.

554
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 8: You not.

555
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 5: Seen me and just shared the innocence of your love

556
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 5: with me in that moment and reminded me that my

557
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 5: job here is not just for me, but it's for

558
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 5: all of the mothers behind before me and all the

559
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 5: mothers in front of me, Like you did that, bando,

560
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 5: And I was like, and I want you to know

561
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 5: you can you take it like it's yours to it's

562
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 5: yours to have to make a life of however you

563
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 5: want to do music, Like your role, your relationship with

564
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 5: it is yours. You get to hack it. No one

565
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 5: gets to say when you do it, how you do it,

566
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 5: whether you have kids before you do it. No one

567
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 5: gets to say because you said that thing, you know,

568
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 5: because you you you made me stand up. And she

569
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 5: was like, oh, it was like like that's yours, man,

570
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 5: that's yours. That she was like, you know, as a

571
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 5: five year olds was like, no, I don't want this.

572
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 5: I won't have it.

573
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 3: You broke that generational hold, you know.

574
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: I mean, because I think about your dad not being

575
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: able to be fulfilled as a musician and whether you

576
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: internalize that somehow or an other, as well as everything

577
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: other layers that were told as women and mothers, and yeah,

578
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: you broke it, you broke it.

579
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 5: It just suited me, Ellie, you know, like it just

580
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 5: suited me to kind of wear that particular thing, and

581
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 5: also it suited me not to wear it at other times,

582
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 5: like I was. I was, as you said, I was

583
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 5: weaponizing it because it suited me to stay small back

584
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 5: then because I was petrified of what it would take

585
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 5: just to step out. And I trained everyone meticulously, like

586
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 5: people genuinely believe that I didn't want to do music

587
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 5: by the time I've gotten to that point. So when

588
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 5: I started coming out, they're like, I thought you didn't

589
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 5: want to It was like, yeah, I know, I mean lying,

590
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 5: And I trained you to lie too, like and by

591
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 5: the time I gave like and by that stage, I

592
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 5: was like, you know, the moment John got the inkling

593
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 5: that that door was even slightly a jar, it was

594
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 5: like a crack in the in the window of a

595
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 5: boarded up house. You know, it just floods the room, floods,

596
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 5: the house with light. You know, he was just like, right,

597
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 5: what are we doing?

598
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 4: How are we doing? When are we doing it? Now?

599
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 5: You know, like the most ferocious and like you've actually

600
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 5: got to be careful what you tell John you want

601
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 5: to do, because his level of your leader is so immense.

602
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 5: It's just like, hey, I think I might want to

603
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 5: and he's got the tool belt on.

604
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 10: You know, it's just like, yeah, literally, I can make that.

605
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 10: I'll make that stand and you need a little step

606
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 10: step made. I've got to make you a step right now.

607
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 5: He's just and I just so I just want to

608
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 5: be clear that did not happen in a vacuum king

609
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 5: because I decided it was because as a family unit,

610
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 5: we totally he got behind it in the same way

611
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 5: we had been behind him. You know, there was no

612
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 5: there was no difference in that and that there's yeah,

613
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 5: it was a total team effort. And I mean that

614
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 5: on a really energetic level as well. That there was

615
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 5: never a moment of like, hey, I know you want

616
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 5: to do this music thing now, but you know so

617
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 5: it's like, no, well when are you going to tour?

618
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 5: And when am I going to tour? And what like

619
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 5: let's work Like it was a co effort. There was

620
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 5: some training that had to go into it because I

621
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 5: had been the absolute stay at home, working primary parent

622
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 5: up until that point, so I had to actually teach

623
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 5: each other, do some handover, and like, hey, when you

624
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 5: walk out the door to go on tour, you walk

625
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 5: out the door to go on tour. When I walk

626
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 5: out the door to go on tour, do you see

627
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 5: how there's a spreadsheet on the fridge. This has got

628
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 5: that's got to change. Let's let's look at that. Or

629
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 5: do you see how there's like you know, like I

630
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 5: don't want to have to organize twenty things before I leave,

631
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 5: so let's actually look at how that's different, or you know.

632
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 5: And that was trial and error and it was way

633
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 5: easier doing that than navigating the fog of resentment that

634
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 5: had settled into our relationship.

635
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did that work out for you? John? Just

636
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: taking over the home life.

637
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 4: It's interesting because we started I always have to answer

638
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 4: questions a bit long, but we decided to do our

639
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 4: life together. I remember the moment we spoke to the

640
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 4: woman named Jackie Gya. She was one of our main

641
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 4: partners with starting our management workshop that we've run from

642
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 4: us twenty years on and off, and Jackie Geyer told

643
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 4: us that she raised kids on the road with her husband,

644
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 4: Joe Gia, an amazing indigenous artist, and their kids learned

645
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 4: how to do masks by counting people on the door

646
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 4: and taking tickets and selling merch. We asked her, like,

647
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 4: do you think we could do this? And she said, yeah,

648
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 4: you can do this. And I remember skipping out of

649
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 4: her Aliston Williamstown and going, We're going to start a

650
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 4: family together. While we were torn ten months a year.

651
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 4: I mean it was you know, we're not even wildly

652
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 4: crazy and highly optimistic and knew nothing or we were

653
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 4: both kids, thank god, but thank god, but we did

654
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 4: that together. That was the journey. That was the journey.

655
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 4: And as things changed and Dan, you know, we fell

656
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 4: into like really simple socio political patriarchal roles. Off, I'm

657
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,959
Speaker 4: the breadwinner and now you're the state at home mom,

658
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 4: and like like this woman is like she's like superwoman.

659
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 4: So it's like she's not she's not anything part of

660
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 4: the patriarchy as far as like you know, okay, you're

661
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 4: the brenda winner, you're the guy who has all the

662
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 4: creativity and I'll stay home and you know he wash

663
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 4: the dishes. You know, that's a really worthy job in

664
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 4: and of itself, but it's not a bus job, you know.

665
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 4: And so as we transitioned and her creativity came to

666
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 4: the Ford, we were all ready to to to make

667
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 4: that transition, but there were some really inherent to you know,

668
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 4: socio political behaviors going on where you know, she would

669
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 4: just think about cooking, cleaning and the laundry and what

670
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 4: the kids needed for the next week, like two weeks

671
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 4: ahead before I'd even think about it. I think about

672
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 4: those things on the day, and I do think that's

673
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 4: there's a difference between you know, men and women to

674
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 4: say a certain degree. But also I was like, oh,

675
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 4: doesn't this shit just happen, you know, because the women

676
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 4: have always at the magic coffee table, Like doesn't it

677
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 4: just clean itself? So definitely I had a man up

678
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 4: and I had to grow up and that was a

679
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 4: huge there was a huge deck out of that and

680
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 4: really learning what a feminist was and like that I

681
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 4: could be a feminist and it wasn't just something that

682
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 4: women were. And you know, there's a huge, huge education,

683
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 4: which is a whole other podcast, you know, to really

684
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 4: talk about inherited inherited behavior inherited gender behavior. Yeah, and

685
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 4: I did have to learn, and I had I had

686
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 4: to kind of put on a wider lens of what

687
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 4: she was already doing and always beating me too. And

688
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 4: there's a huge conversation there, like, if you want to

689
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 4: beat me to it, you always will. You're the chronological

690
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 4: one who's always thinking a week ahead. I will have

691
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 4: dinner on the table, I'll think about it in the morning.

692
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 4: And if you can't take those differences, we're not going

693
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 4: to make this work. But we found that wabble and

694
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 4: it was great. She got to see what it was

695
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 4: like to be that long on the road and away

696
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 4: from us. I got to see how intensive the home

697
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 4: life was and also enjoy friends at home and enjoy

698
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 4: the kids, and enjoy dropping things off and making things

699
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 4: in the shed and you know and going to you know,

700
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 4: the morning meetings at school. I love that I got

701
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 4: it just as much as out of that, you know,

702
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 4: as Dan calibrated with what I was dealing with on

703
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 4: the road, and it wasn't just a holiday on the road,

704
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 4: even though she knew that. So, yeah, there's a huge,

705
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 4: huge development and it's really we've been together twenty five

706
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: years and in many ways, it hasn't stopped. You know,

707
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 4: There's been a massive re education and a decolonization of

708
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 4: what it is to be a couple, what it is

709
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 4: to be a professional couple, what it is to be

710
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 4: parents and friends. But yeah, that time in particular was

711
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 4: steep learningker She had had a gut of a few things,

712
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 4: you know, and in order for the world to change,

713
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 4: she had to step into that and go, no, I'm

714
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 4: taking this place. And what she did, the components could

715
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 4: move around her.

716
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: I think it's really important to know what the other

717
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: person does. I remember Bruce Willis, the actor was talking

718
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: about in Moonlighting. It was his first job evidently, and

719
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: he walked around to every department the camera department, sound department,

720
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: grip department on that set, and he said, what do

721
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 2: you do? And he worked not only was he on camera,

722
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 2: but he was working with each department for a week

723
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: to understand what each of those teams did in order

724
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: to get that on And he said, I became so

725
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 2: much more the better actor. And I remember reading that, going, oh, yeah,

726
00:37:53,239 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 2: it's a really good thing to do. How do you guys,

727
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 2: so you're being pulled in different directions, how do you

728
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: keep each other grounded when when shit does go astray,

729
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 2: you know what sort of tools, what sort of things

730
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 2: do you do to assist each other, just keeping things

731
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 2: on the keeping things grounded and level a myriad of things.

732
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 4: I mean, we still meet those moments all the time.

733
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 4: We're both releasing like somehow we're releasing an album at

734
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 4: the same time.

735
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, within weeks of each other.

736
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 4: Two weeks turned nineteen yesterday. You know, it's like we

737
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 4: just kind of literally bolted out those gates into this

738
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 4: next part of our lives. And yeah, there's moments of

739
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 4: crisis are just overload. You know, we are a DIY

740
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 4: kind of community. How we've always done things, and so

741
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 4: what we've learned over the years. I speak for myself,

742
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 4: I've learned trying not to fix Danielle's problems and learnt

743
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 4: about Oh, I used to try to fix your problems

744
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 4: so I could feel good. So now it's actually about you.

745
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 4: I'm not going to try to fix your problems. I'm

746
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 4: just gonna try to listen, which gives her a great

747
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 4: space to then express yourself, which takes the top off

748
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 4: all that tension or whatever it may be. And in

749
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 4: that so listening, not trying to fix each other's problems huge,

750
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 4: so you don't have to fight for the fact that

751
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 4: this is a problem for me, Like, stop trying to

752
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 4: take it away, stop trying to fix it. Just fu listen, man, listen.

753
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 4: Just need somebody to understand this, So listen. And then kindness,

754
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 4: like to be kind something we've really learned a lot

755
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 4: about the last five years. And then it's just like

756
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 4: we have the trusted, the trusted spreadsheet of like, Hi,

757
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 4: you gave me your non negotiables here, and I know

758
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 4: you're in a crisis moment. So are you exercising, are

759
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 4: you meditating? Are you getting enough sleep? I'm only asking

760
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 4: you this because you gave me your emergency card to

761
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 4: give you. That's like that's like an overall metaphor what

762
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 4: about you?

763
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 5: How do we keep each other grounded? Yeah? I think

764
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 5: I think you know it's different at different stages, right,

765
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 5: because actually, when you're in the absolute cold face of

766
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 5: parenting young children, it's like the priorities are really different

767
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 5: than they are at this stage where we've got too

768
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 5: expensively like adult children, and we do have time and

769
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 5: space to be able to be like you just go

770
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 5: get what you need, babe, Like whenever you need, you

771
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 5: get that, you know where It's like when he would

772
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 5: come back off tour, it wasn't like you get what

773
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 5: you need is like I need some space and the kids.

774
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 5: You've been gone for like, you know, six weeks, and

775
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 5: I actually just need a moment. So I know you

776
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 5: might be tired, but I'm on the edge, you know,

777
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 5: Like so I think that's different different times. And I

778
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 5: really want to speak to that because to the to

779
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 5: the parents out there who might be listening, who are

780
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 5: at that cold face. I just want to remember just

781
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 5: being in some this couple talking to me about like

782
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 5: making time to make love.

783
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 2: And I was just like, I know who they were.

784
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, what wasn't like you have kids and they're like, no,

785
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 5: we don't have care Like I don't want to hear it.

786
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 5: I actually don't want to hear it from you. I

787
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 5: don't want to hear it from you, Like you don't

788
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 5: actually know what we're dealing with in the in the

789
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 5: in the crush of the domestic, like a cow to

790
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 5: make it. We're just doing all we can to not

791
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 5: be assholes, you know what I mean, That's the best

792
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 5: I can do is not be a fucking asshole. Today,

793
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 5: I can't get around to the bit where I'm like

794
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 5: and I'm a sexy letter, you.

795
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 4: Know, like no, you know you let you in.

796
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 5: I feel so open right now. I was like, no, no,

797
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 5: I just don't want to do fucking damage to people

798
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 5: right so cool.

799
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 4: And I don't want to listen to it from some

800
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 4: fucking couples that don't have fucking kids right now.

801
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 5: Anyway, so anyway round it. So I think it's different

802
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 5: at different stagors. And but we've learned along the way

803
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 5: to just be gentler and just the what happens in

804
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 5: between the bits, uh, you know, it's it's the opportunity

805
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 5: to be soft and kind in small moments that actually

806
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 5: make the real big difference to the big moments. And

807
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 5: we won't great at that, you know, we were under

808
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 5: We both have our own particular recipe of intensity and

809
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 5: trauma and drama and all these things, and they didn't

810
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 5: always work well together straight up, and we developed some

811
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 5: really shitty behaviors of relating to each other that came

812
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 5: to a head. You know, that's the actual truth. We're

813
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 5: only able to be good partners now because we had

814
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 5: to surrender previous versions of what we had slipped into

815
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 5: as what was what it was to be partners to

816
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 5: each other. So I don't think that's a I can't

817
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 5: answer that question honestly by being like we just corregulate

818
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 5: because we haven't always. We've gone through absolute fire and

819
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 5: collapse to learn how to be better at that, and

820
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,399
Speaker 5: we've reached everything to get it there. So yeah, that's

821
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 5: the truth. We're better at it now because we went

822
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 5: through absolute hell with it.

823
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we.

824
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 4: Through everything that we inherited from our parents at it.

825
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 4: We threw everything that we inherited from the younger generation

826
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 4: that tried to kind of upgrade from where our parents

827
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 4: had it, you know, and used everything we at a

828
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 4: disposal and you know, did well, but did damage as well.

829
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 4: There's always two truths. We thrived and we also created trauma,

830
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 4: and we learned how to do things the right way

831
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,479
Speaker 4: by really doing things the wrong way for a long time,

832
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 4: you know, breaking, you know, like breaking, creating damage. And yeah,

833
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,399
Speaker 4: I can't say enough bringing it back to me, back

834
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 4: down to the kids and kind of echoing why banjo

835
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 4: was such a big moment in your life in your

836
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 4: music is I for me, I need something to rise to.

837
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 4: I don't I. You know, it's another kind of conversation.

838
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 4: I don't think I'm a good enough reason to rise

839
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,760
Speaker 4: to my best self. And there's a whole the story

840
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 4: that we can talk about, you know, But like I

841
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 4: need I needed Dan. She was like, that's such a

842
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 4: level like cool. I will rise to be good enough

843
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 4: for you because I want to be with you. I

844
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 4: want to rise to be my best self for my children. Yeah,

845
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 4: and I feel you know, as much as that's echoed

846
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 4: throughout our lives, that's what's allowed us to actually rise,

847
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 4: to get over our shit and all the triggers of

848
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 4: twenty five years of marriage, to find a better place,

849
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 4: which is completely different place than we thought we'd end up,

850
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 4: an unconventional place, but a good place. It's really for

851
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 4: our kids. You know. We rose for each other because

852
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 4: we know we deserved that. I know that Dan deserved

853
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 4: the very best of a man. She knew I deserved

854
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 4: a very best of a partner as well, and our

855
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 4: kids deserved parents that were regulated enough to make sure

856
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 4: that we could always do Christmas together no matter what happened,

857
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 4: whether we were together or not. And that means that meant

858
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 4: rising to an occasion. You know that we weren't necessarily

859
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 4: trained for, prepared for, had all the tools for, and

860
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 4: maybe not even like the Gusto for if it wasn't

861
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 4: for rising to our grandchildren that don't exist.

862
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: You know, that's been my focus for many years now,

863
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: is what I think. I think about my grandkids and

864
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: who do I want to be, what do I want

865
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: to teach them? And you know, as I know you've

866
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about menopause, Dan, it's like that's

867
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: changed my entire rewiring of my brain. And now it's like, no,

868
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: it's not about what I look like. It's am I

869
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: strong enough fit enough to swim with my grandkids in

870
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: the ocean? Can I hike with my ground like It's

871
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: just the whole focus has just changed for me in

872
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,479
Speaker 1: such a great way. I feel so free from that

873
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: hold that you know that was there before.

874
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 5: So, yeah, we hear that, and I think it's I

875
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 5: think it's such a you know, I mean when we

876
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 5: went through the really hard chapter, those those couple of

877
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 5: things to like throw the anchor, throw a future anchor

878
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 5: out of going we're going to be grandparents together and

879
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,959
Speaker 5: we're going to be great at it, and that's our job.

880
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 5: And this could be one of the most beautiful and

881
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 5: defining chapters of our lives, and we will always be

882
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 5: a family. There is no escaping those three truths. So

883
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 5: let's design something that absolutely kicks those three things out

884
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 5: of the park. Everything else is irrelevant the nature of

885
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 5: our relationship or not the nature, but like what our

886
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 5: relationship necessarily looks like, or whether we choose to be

887
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 5: each other in that together in that traditional way, or

888
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 5: whether we choose something that that all has to sit

889
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 5: under the banner of those three things. And if it

890
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 5: doesn't hit every one of those markers, we can't. We

891
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 5: don't do it because it's not the end game. And

892
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 5: so playing that, having those things in the middle again

893
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 5: of that fog, of that fog of confusion, of that

894
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 5: fog of collapse of that in that period of the

895
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 5: unknown between what was and what would be was it

896
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 5: was a life saver for me because it switched on

897
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,439
Speaker 5: my creative brain of like, let's make it beautiful. Let's

898
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 5: make this so beautiful. How can we be so how

899
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 5: can we be the kindest we've ever been to each

900
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 5: other in this moment where it feels like I want

901
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 5: to just point my finger at you and make it.

902
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 4: All I mean it was. I remember the moment once again,

903
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 4: don't know where it was or what it was. I

904
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,919
Speaker 4: just wear with the vibe. And we're sleeping in separate rooms.

905
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 4: We still sleep in separate rooms. We actually love it

906
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 4: now because we're actually really big energies. I like to

907
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 4: stay u late, she likes to go to bed early.

908
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 4: It fucking works. It's amazing. I thought it was the

909
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 4: beginning of the end though. I thought, Okay, I know this,

910
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 4: I know what this looks like. But in and around

911
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 4: all that, and we've now moved up to the city

912
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 4: from the country for our son's education. We're living in

913
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 4: separate rooms and all that stuff. Somewhere in around either

914
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 4: before or just as we might, Dan said something that

915
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:33,399
Speaker 4: was really truly creative and artistic. You know, let's make

916
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 4: this a work of art. And I remember going, we're

917
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 4: in separate rooms right now, where all those things that

918
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 4: are going on. I'm moving this place in the country

919
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 4: that I've been for ten years. I don't know where

920
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 4: we stand, and it's like, yeah, let's make this a

921
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 4: work of art. Let's go. You know, like, our son

922
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 4: has amazing last year's school, amazing, amazing graduation. We have

923
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 4: amazing laughs around a dinner table together. We're still connected.

924
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 4: We still get to have these incidental moments. You get

925
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 4: to make your album. I'm making my album, but also

926
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 4: our kids doing is sewing and you know, in skateboarding,

927
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 4: and it's like, how let's make this a painting. What

928
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 4: do we want the painting to be? And I remember,

929
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's just where I understand life is,

930
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 4: if it's through art, you know, but where I sit

931
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 4: on the spectrum. But I just think, click, Okay, we're

932
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 4: gonna we're gonna paint with our lives, and you know,

933
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 4: some of the paint is trauma and some of it's

934
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 4: like future anything you want it to be. And luckily

935
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 4: we were resourced. I'll say this over and over again,

936
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 4: like the privilege that we have. Do you even have

937
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 4: two separate bedrooms, to be able to move from the

938
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,879
Speaker 4: country to the city for ours son's education. All these

939
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 4: things that didn't limit us allowed us to have space

940
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 4: to grow into something new, and we never take that

941
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 4: for granted.

942
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 2: It's amazing. Thanks so much for sharing that. I think

943
00:49:53,560 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 2: that's really important information. Yeah, incredibly important, especially in relationship

944
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: and as relationships evolve, and this idea that you've got

945
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 2: to be in the same room, or you've got to

946
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 2: do things all these same ways, but you've just given

947
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 2: a wonderful example of something different and refreshing. I were

948
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: sort of running out of time, but I do want

949
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 2: to touch on a couple of things. One is I

950
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: the dobro has to go to a grandchild, right.

951
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 4: Or does it? I think the doros has to go

952
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 4: Like my grandmother didn't give it to any one of

953
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 4: her eight children because none of them had that relationship.

954
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 4: And it's just so so happened to be that I

955
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 4: was named after my grandfather and I got it. But

956
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 4: I think what's probably more important is that whoever does

957
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 4: get it loves loves music in the way doesn't want

958
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 4: to clear necessarily. Yeah, yeah, loves it. Like I could

959
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 4: give it to people, one of my kids or one

960
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 4: of my grandkids, but if no one plays it, you know,

961
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 4: after I die, it'll be stuck back in a rock somewhere.

962
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 4: You know, some other kid, you know who doesn't want

963
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,760
Speaker 4: the guitar for any adulation or any kind of pipe

964
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 4: but he actually loves the spirit of music. We'll pull

965
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 4: it out and yeah, I just have to, you know,

966
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 4: I might have to leave that to another generation for

967
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 4: a while.

968
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 1: It could be a kid that comes over from next

969
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: door and reaches.

970
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 2: Such it's such a graceful analogy and metaphor. It's so beautiful.

971
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,479
Speaker 2: But the other thing is what I do want to say,

972
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 2: you both build each other up beautifully. You've both got

973
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 2: new records coming out. Can you each speak to each

974
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 2: other's record because they're both exquisite. Yeah, they are so beautiful.

975
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 2: And so with John, please tell us about dance record.

976
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 2: And Dan, You've got to tell us about John's record.

977
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 4: Please. We've all been on a Holmer's odyssey journey of

978
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 4: some sort. And I've been watching this album come to

979
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,399
Speaker 4: life the last God, it seems like.

980
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 5: Three or four years your album, I write it in

981
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 5: twenty two this time in twenty two, so three years.

982
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, And watching the journey of that come to fruition

983
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 4: and all the different like all the different kind of

984
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 4: adventures that it's taken to get to where it is.

985
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 4: It's been pretty amazing to watch. I stand back on

986
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 4: the outside of it and throughout the processes of living,

987
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 4: listening to demos and rough mixes and all that, and

988
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 4: I just always stood out as an artist stood back

989
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,720
Speaker 4: as an artist and observed, just going, the poetry is amazing,

990
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:41,760
Speaker 4: the oh, the the syncopation of lyrics over great chords

991
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,240
Speaker 4: is really good. So as a songwriter and as a producer,

992
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 4: I was just like, this is really great music. And

993
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 4: then it was Our Lives and I was just like, fuck, man,

994
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 4: you just described it. Yeah, I feel that right there.

995
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 4: That's and and I'm like, oh, I'm holding it one bit,

996
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 4: going oh, that is so raw. And at the same time,

997
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 4: I'm like, that is such an amazing bit of songwriting

998
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 4: that you just did. You know, like you got my

999
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 4: heart beating in your hand at the scene. I'm like, God,

1000
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,280
Speaker 4: the way you describe my heart beating in your hand's amazing.

1001
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 4: And so as an artist, I stand back and go,

1002
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 4: this is a fucking amazing album. I'm so proud of them.

1003
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 4: It's taking it on such a such a journey, and

1004
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 4: it feels like such a step up from you know,

1005
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 4: it's an evolution from their last album. And yeah, I'm

1006
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 4: just really proud of them and really happy for them.

1007
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 4: And yeah, I feel like them being who oh diding

1008
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:38,439
Speaker 4: Go Spender, Dan's partner in crime, and and Danielle Yeah,

1009
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:43,720
Speaker 4: Mamma Kin it's Yeah, I'm really proud of it as

1010
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 4: as somebody who's supported it, but also just as a songwriter.

1011
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 4: I'm just like, oh, that's respect, you.

1012
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, great stuff, beautiful.

1013
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: Dan tell us about John's new album, Prism.

1014
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 5: Prism. So I've been, you know, I've written sidecut on

1015
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 5: John's process of how hard he's had to work to

1016
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 5: capture these brumbies because they did not come in from

1017
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 5: the wild easily, and he has had to be a

1018
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 5: very humble and patient horse whisperer all the while and

1019
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 5: literally take, you know, go really far forward and kind

1020
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 5: of go after them and then take whole moments of

1021
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:24,760
Speaker 5: like sitting on the porch watching them run, just wondering

1022
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 5: about the nature of them. So where he's been more

1023
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 5: in the minutia of my actual songs, I've been really

1024
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 5: in the minutia of his emotional journey to capture this

1025
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 5: body of work for him. John writes are like John

1026
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 5: is like he's a he's a banger writer. Like he

1027
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 5: writes he writes a mean chorus, he writes a great

1028
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 5: like he just has this he's got this form that

1029
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 5: like it's hook upon hook. And then these just like

1030
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 5: earworm songs, You're like, how do I how do How

1031
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 5: am I hearing this for the first time, and it

1032
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 5: feels like I've listened to all my life, like, and

1033
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 5: that craft within his writing is just getting way, like

1034
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 5: just always still improving, always still get much to my

1035
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 5: I'm like, it's even better, you know, like you wrote

1036
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 5: a banging back in two thousand and two, You're still

1037
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 5: writing ones and are like taking the level up from there.

1038
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,399
Speaker 5: So I think this collection of songs is such an

1039
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,840
Speaker 5: amazing mix of the evolution of him as a writer

1040
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 5: and a producer, taking the reins metaphorically of these kind

1041
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,280
Speaker 5: of wild things and daring to go they will only

1042
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 5: come in under my hand, like knowing that he couldn't

1043
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 5: sort of spread that too wide, that they were going

1044
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,240
Speaker 5: to make him learn. And then also just the honesty

1045
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 5: of the chapters that he explores in there, which is

1046
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,240
Speaker 5: this kind of the passing of both of our dads

1047
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 5: within forty hours of each other, and the process of

1048
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 5: what it is to that stuff, the process of the

1049
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 5: collapse and the death of the version of our relationship

1050
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 5: that we've known for twenty three years at that point.

1051
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 3: And then just his.

1052
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 5: Observation of the geopolitical and social landscapes, and so it's

1053
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:06,879
Speaker 5: really like to traverse such incredible content and then make

1054
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 5: it feel like stuff that feels at once familiar when

1055
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 5: it's so personal is the sign of a really great songwriter,

1056
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 5: in my opinion, Like how to make that go? How

1057
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 5: can that? How can that could? I know that language

1058
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 5: really is really personal. I can tell you those that

1059
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 5: what you're hearing in those their their vignettes plucked directly

1060
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 5: from real life, all of them. So to do that

1061
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 5: and then make it feel so familiar is what I

1062
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 5: think this album does incredibly well and why I think

1063
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 5: it will just reach so many people. And the music

1064
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 5: just it's he worked hard for them and you can

1065
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 5: hear it because it sounds effortless and it sounds obvious,

1066
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,240
Speaker 5: And I think that's the sign of a good piece.

1067
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 5: You know, the inevitability, the inevitable, and the surprising and

1068
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 5: the inevitable at once is a sign of a very

1069
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 5: good book.

1070
00:56:55,000 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 4: Amazing, can you guys that to me as a sound.

1071
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 3: Transcripted out?

1072
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 2: We'll get gpt onto that for you and you can

1073
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 2: have the whole thing.

1074
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 3: Brave it on the wall there it is actually both

1075
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: of you.

1076
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,399
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not a very I'm not a compliment given

1077
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,479
Speaker 5: like I'm a heart, I'm a task master. So he'll

1078
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 5: show meself and I'll be like it's good, but like

1079
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 5: he actually likes that that kind of language. But it's

1080
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 5: not very often that I'm asked those kind of questions

1081
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 5: in a really straight way where I.

1082
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 4: Can My love language is words.

1083
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm with you.

1084
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 4: Do your work. I don't get to hear her words

1085
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,959
Speaker 4: like that very I love that.

1086
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: There's so much more that we would love to talk

1087
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: to you about, because you're you're just so full of

1088
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: life and some and the history that you've had together

1089
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: and the things you've created, but we do, unfortunately have

1090
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: to have to wrap it. But we want to ask

1091
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: one final question of you each And you're both such

1092
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: incredible wordsmiths, so this might be tricky, but could you

1093
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: describe each other in one word.

1094
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 5: Or the first first word that came to mind?

1095
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 4: Yes?

1096
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 5: Should I just say the first one?

1097
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 4: Yes?

1098
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 5: He's electric. He's totally electric in all the ways where

1099
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 5: like electricity has to be grounded to be safe, and

1100
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 5: like also that like what it does, like how it

1101
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 5: moves and how it what it can power up and

1102
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 5: what it can put out like what it like the

1103
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 5: idea of this this force. He is electric azing.

1104
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 4: And the first thing that came up, and I have

1105
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 4: to kind of give you a little bit of a background,

1106
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,919
Speaker 4: is like when I say the word it was boss. Yeah,

1107
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 4: like a mob mob kind of language. Look, when you're

1108
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 4: a boss woman or you're a boss man, like you,

1109
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 4: you're like you're like tribal leader in a way that

1110
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 4: you are. You hold knowledge, you hold custom, you hold

1111
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 4: a moral and ethical DNA of your people. And you know,

1112
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 4: I won't speak much more about that because it's not

1113
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 4: my culture. But so when I use the word boss,

1114
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 4: I'm thinking boss woman all the time. Person. You could

1115
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 4: you know, in my opinion, when I was making my

1116
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 4: dream boards back in you know, the early two thousands,

1117
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 4: I you know, I was, she was on my dream

1118
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 4: board and she was speaking at the u n you

1119
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 4: know like that's yeah serious, that's really that's really earnest

1120
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 4: and really but that's how I see her. She's a

1121
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 4: boss and the leader. And so that's musically, but it's

1122
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 4: also culturally, you know, and you even watch if you

1123
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 4: ever get a chance to ever come up to a

1124
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 4: management workshop and watch her do with It's the reason

1125
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 4: why we're doing the management workshop is because of the

1126
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 4: hundreds of managers that we've put through that workshop, they

1127
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 4: were all insisting that she came back to be a boss.

1128
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 4: And so whether she's on stage or she's in the house,

1129
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 4: so she's around the campfire, there's a real boss woman energy.

1130
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 4: It's like she's there's a real chief, how you say it,

1131
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 4: the feminine chief? This yeah boss, I see his boss. Yeah,

1132
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 4: boss on the drums, never in charge though, never in charge,

1133
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 4: always like let's all do this together. But this this real. Yeah,

1134
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 4: there's a real.

1135
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 2: Love it.

1136
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just want to see Yeah.

1137
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 5: Queen.

1138
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 3: Ah you too.

1139
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time. We wish you

1140
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: nothing but the biggest success of everything that you want

1141
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: to do and want to be in the world. And

1142
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: these two albums are phenomenal. So congratulations.

1143
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're incredible, incredibly prior to you guys, you're representing

1144
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 2: Australia in such a unique and uh and beautiful way.

1145
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 2: And it's this show you're showing a side of our

1146
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 2: people and how we do things, and and it's so

1147
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 2: raw and honest and love that you integrate the ship

1148
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 2: with the gold you know, it's and everything in between

1149
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 2: it's just fantastic and thank you so much for your

1150
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 2: time today.

1151
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 4: Oh man, thank you guys. It's so nice to you know,

1152
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 4: we have a low respect from you guys from Afar

1153
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 4: and and I think our time is our greatest resource

1154
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 4: and the fact that you've chosen to spend some of

1155
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 4: your time with us and vice versa means a lot. Yeah, yeah,

1156
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 4: thank you and thanks.

1157
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 5: But thanks for being willing to sort of share it.

1158
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 5: It's not it's not a straight easy story to tell,

1159
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 5: you know. There's a lot of grit and a lot

1160
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 5: of guts in there. So thanks for holding the holding

1161
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 5: that delicately. Appreciate it.

1162
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, our pleasure, our pleasure, right on