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Speaker 1: Now. I received an email yesterday from Michelle Lowe, who

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Speaker 1: ran Cheffie Shelby's Burger Bars, had a couple of businesses

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Speaker 1: going in the southern suburbs at Morphort Vale and hall

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Speaker 1: Att Cove and I think maybe a third at nor

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Speaker 1: Longer as well. But she has raised with me this

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Speaker 1: is a very interesting topic for business owners. And if

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Speaker 1: you ever go into a business and look around, say

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Speaker 1: a cafe, and you have a look around and think

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Speaker 1: about the nice seating and the way it's set up,

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Speaker 1: the counter and the bar and the kitchen. Maybe you'd

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Speaker 1: been to that building before and you'd noticed, well, the

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Speaker 1: kitchen wasn't over here, it was over there back in

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Speaker 1: the day. And whatever the case may be, the costs

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Speaker 1: of putting in all the bits and pieces the fit

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Speaker 1: out of the business is borne by the person who

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Speaker 1: takes out the lease, the business owner that is leasing

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Speaker 1: the space, and they set it up the way they want.

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Speaker 1: But Michelle makes the very valid point where business owner

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Speaker 1: are forking out thousands of dollars for repairs to the

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Speaker 1: building and they pay for the building insurance as well

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Speaker 1: for the landlord, and the landlord seems to get by

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Speaker 1: saying well, you've got the space. Anything that needs repairing

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Speaker 1: is up to you and not up to me. Whereas

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Speaker 1: if you rent a house and say the air conditioner

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Speaker 1: doesn't work, your rights are very different. You can get

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Speaker 1: that fixed and go to the tenancy tribunal and all

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Speaker 1: the rest of that. Let's have a chat with Michelle

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Speaker 1: misure Low, former owner Cheffey Shelby's Michelle.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, morning, Matt. How are you all right?

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Speaker 1: Thank you so talk us through the issues you raise here,

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Speaker 1: and for instance, even with your own experience, sure, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Not a problem. So the issues mostly arise are very sorry.

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Speaker 2: In my Portner Lounger venue. That was the first shot

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Speaker 2: that I opened, And when I signed the leaf, I

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Speaker 2: went through her and had a lawyer look through her

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Speaker 2: and and everything seemed great. And then about six months

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Speaker 2: into my lease, we ended up with a hole in

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Speaker 2: the roof and it was leaking water. Now, I spoke

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Speaker 2: to the real estate agent and they did fix that. However,

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Speaker 2: when they inspected the roof, it seemed that the structure

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Speaker 2: was pretty unsound. I won't go into it too much. However,

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Speaker 2: they said that they would fix it, and for about

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Speaker 2: six months that was the story. And then that was

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Speaker 2: never the case, and the building actually sustained so much

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Speaker 2: damage that the council deemed it unfit and condemned it.

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Speaker 2: Now whilst I was in this building any repairs to

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Speaker 2: So when I was in there, my electrician came in

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Speaker 2: because we wanted to add certain things for the fit out,

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Speaker 2: and I was told that certain things were not to code.

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Speaker 2: When I brought this up with the real estate agent,

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Speaker 2: I was told that that was a cost on my part.

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Speaker 2: I had another venue as well that had air conditioning

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Speaker 2: units in it, and one night we were holding an

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Speaker 2: event and the air conditioning unit leaked into the roof

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Speaker 2: space and water leaked through a light sitting. So I

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Speaker 2: called my sparky and they came and fixed it immediately. Lucky,

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Speaker 2: no one was hurt. However, when I approached the real

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Speaker 2: estate agent, that was a cost on my part because

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Speaker 2: the air conditioners form a part of the inside of

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Speaker 2: the building. So therefore that's my issue.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's unreal. How can something not to code that

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Speaker 1: you don't own. So, for instance, if you take out

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Speaker 1: a lease in a business premises and the wiring is

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Speaker 1: really old and doesn't meet specifications and requirements of today,

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Speaker 1: how does that become the tenants problem and not the

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Speaker 1: building owner of the landlord's problem.

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Speaker 2: Well, the landlords don't need to actually disclose anything that's

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Speaker 2: wrong with the building. So the issue really is that

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Speaker 2: there is a lack of disclosure in commercial real estate

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Speaker 2: and a lack of the owner's responsibility to do so,

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Speaker 2: to disclose these things. And had I known of the

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Speaker 2: issues within the buildings, I wouldn't at least them not

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Speaker 2: a chance. The building I speak of with the air

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Speaker 2: conditioning unit, there were multiple issues with the electricity that

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Speaker 2: my plumber found and then had to call a sparky

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Speaker 2: to rectify because it was unsafe. It was unsafe to myself,

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Speaker 2: my staff, and my patrons.

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Speaker 1: Goodness, So where do you go with this? Is there

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Speaker 1: any redress?

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Speaker 2: This has been a I'm glad you asked that. So

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Speaker 2: this has been a wild use chase, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: didn't everything happened initially with my roof. I contacted lawyers

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Speaker 2: who stated that big within this particular lease, which isn't

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Speaker 2: in any of my other leases, that the land there

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Speaker 2: was a clause that stated that the landlord does not

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Speaker 2: guarantee the building fit for occupancy, and that really put

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Speaker 2: me over a Barrow, because therefore, I've signed a contract

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Speaker 2: saying that sure like I went to into this building

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Speaker 2: and if for whatever reason I can't use this building,

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Speaker 2: that's not his fault at all. So I went to

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Speaker 2: the I tried Resa, but that's only real estate residential

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Speaker 2: real estate. I went to Small Business Commission. I have

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Speaker 2: been to Consumer Affairs. I even went to the head

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Speaker 2: office of the real estate agency who turned around and said,

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Speaker 2: we don't have any jurisdiction with our sorry with out

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Speaker 2: other officers, so you're going to have to take it

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Speaker 2: up with them and go back to consumer affairs. Finally,

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Speaker 2: I've contacted my Member of Parliament, Katrine Hilliard, who was

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Speaker 2: very helpful, and I've finally been pointed towards the Minister

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Speaker 2: for Infrastructure, so we've sent an email through to them

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Speaker 2: hoping that something can be rectified. But there actually isn't

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Speaker 2: really a governing body for this for commercial real estate.

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Speaker 1: Tribe.

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Speaker 2: No no, no, And so what happens is small business

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Speaker 2: owners who come up against these issues and don't think

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Speaker 2: it's fair. Their only real course of action is to

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Speaker 2: seek out legal advice, which is very expensive. As we

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Speaker 2: all know, lawyers are quite expensive, and this isn't covered

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Speaker 2: by legal aid either. So even if you know, you

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Speaker 2: get to a position like myself where I've had to

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Speaker 2: shut down my businesses and financially it's not very viable

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Speaker 2: to get a lawyer at all. You just have to

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Speaker 2: copy it. So that's where I've gone and done a

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Speaker 2: lot of legwork and investigating and reading the Act. I've

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Speaker 2: spent quite a few nights scouring the state agents at

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Speaker 2: and yeah, you get to a point like I am

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Speaker 2: at now where you really hope that the ministers can

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Speaker 2: actually do something to help and to make them change,

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Speaker 2: because more business owners, you know, they're generally not you know,

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Speaker 2: legal experts, and they're not real estate experts, and not

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Speaker 2: all lawyers will go through a lease and see the

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Speaker 2: little things that actually hurt us so badly because they're standard,

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Speaker 2: and it's been allowed to be standard for so long.

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Speaker 2: It's just normal, sad, unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's quite unbelievable. There's nowhere to go. I

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Speaker 1: would would have a sort I mean small business commissioner.

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Speaker 1: Can they not help?

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Speaker 2: They are a they mediate so their resolution team and

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Speaker 2: so let's say my air conditioner was broken, landlord, or

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Speaker 2: let's just say I did actually go to them when

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Speaker 2: it came to the roof and they tried to mediate

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Speaker 2: the issue is that they weren't able to They don't

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Speaker 2: have they're not the heavies, if that makes sense. There's

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Speaker 2: no Yeah, there's no punishment or shouldn't they punishment, but

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Speaker 2: there's no disciplinary action that can be taken. They can't

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Speaker 2: do that. Yeah, they can't. Yeah, if they can't come

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Speaker 2: to a resolution, then their advice is you need to

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Speaker 2: get legal advice, which is what I did.

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Speaker 1: And that's it. So you're only redress. Really, your only

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Speaker 1: action you can take is hire a lawyer and try

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Speaker 1: to get some either money back or I don't know,

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Speaker 1: refund or work done to the premises. But it's all

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Speaker 1: on the landlord ultimately, and there's no guarantee given that

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Speaker 1: clause you said about landlord doesn't guarantee the fitness of

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Speaker 1: the building for occupancy. Is that's just nuts. So signed this,

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Speaker 1: but I can't promise you you're going to get somewhere

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Speaker 1: you can trade.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. We can't guarantee. That's the roof point

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Speaker 2: falling on your head, but you know, would you But

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Speaker 2: there's no there's no reason to think that that would

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Speaker 2: happen because there's no disclosure. So that's what I'm looking

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Speaker 2: to change.

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Speaker 1: All right, good luck with that. And you're dealing now

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Speaker 1: with Tom Kutsantona's office, and I'm surprised that comes down

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Speaker 1: to the Minister for Infrastructure because he's not he's not

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Speaker 1: into well, he's not looking after small business. He's here

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Speaker 1: on working on big state infrastructure projects like South Road

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Speaker 1: for instance. And I would have thought that would have

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Speaker 1: been more in for instance, and Andrea Michael's department where

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Speaker 1: the Small Business Commissioner would report to.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what I thought, but no, it's taken going

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Speaker 2: a little bit further to get the match and have.

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Speaker 1: Unbelievable Michelle. Look, thank you for coming on and explaining

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Speaker 1: that for everyone who knew any of that. Keep us

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Speaker 1: in the loop with this and how you get on.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to follow it through and hopefully, well the

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Speaker 1: wills of government, we know they don't move notoriously quickly,

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Speaker 1: but hopefully they can at least find the right minister

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Speaker 1: if it's not Tom kots and Titus and given transport

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Speaker 1: and infrastructure, I don't imagine has much dealings with the

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Speaker 1: small business. If it's not him hopefully they work it

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Speaker 1: out very quickly for you.

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Speaker 2: I hope so too, and I'll definitely stay in touch.

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Speaker 1: Good on you, Michelle, Thank you so much life. Thank

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Speaker 1: you from Sheffy Shelby's, which has closed now amid the

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Speaker 1: hospitality crisis. But how about that, so landlords can sign

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Speaker 1: get a tenant to sign a clause or in the

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Speaker 1: clause would be the words landlord doesn't guarantee the building

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Speaker 1: is fit for occupants. I mean, that's not right, and

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Speaker 1: there's no redress on that within the state government. Surely

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Speaker 1: that has to be looked at, absolutely does so minister's involved. Now,

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Speaker 1: if it's Tom Kuts and Thomas, great, then Michelle's with

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Speaker 1: the right person already. But if it's not his department

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Speaker 1: and hard to see how that would work, then it

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Speaker 1: needs to be passed on very quickly to whichever minister.

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Speaker 1: And I imagine consumer affairs etc. Would Fall within Andrea

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Speaker 1: Michael's role and maybe that's where it will end up.

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Speaker 1: But we'll see, and Michelle will certainly keep us updated

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Speaker 1: with all of that. Okay, eight double two to three

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Speaker 1: double O double oh is my number