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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Pit Talk, brought to you by Shannon's.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode, Yuki Sonoda prepares to line up for

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Speaker 1: Red Bull racing for the first time at his home

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Speaker 1: Japanese Grand Prix this weekend, and Formula one is seriously

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Speaker 1: discussing the return to V ten engines and they could

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Speaker 1: be back sooner than you think. My name is Michael Lomonado.

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Speaker 1: It's great to have your company and the company of

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Speaker 1: my co host. He's been the boss of them all

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Speaker 1: since nineteen ninety two. It's Matt Clayton the boss of

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Speaker 1: them all for longer than that. Michael, have you ninety two?

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Speaker 1: I was about twenty and no good at that point,

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Speaker 1: but lovely to join you. Very glad and very envious

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Speaker 1: of you being at my absolutely favorite Grand Prix to

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Speaker 1: go to, and at a strange time of year. No

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Speaker 1: less because as we were just talking off there before,

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Speaker 1: we normally spent our time in Japan getting off the

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Speaker 1: plane and going good God, the humidity is bad, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: slightly different conditions. But it's round three and April, isn't it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I've only just arrived and it was about seven degrees

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Speaker 1: when I got off the plane. And it's going to

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Speaker 1: be bending warmer for Grand Prix weekend, sort of mid

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Speaker 1: teens and much lower overnight, So totally different prospect to

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Speaker 1: what we're normally used to with the Japanese Grand Prix,

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Speaker 1: this race having moved earlier in the season last season,

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Speaker 1: so additional challenge there. Completely different, yes to the sweat

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Speaker 1: box the place normally is, but I guess that freshens

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Speaker 1: us up a little bit and at least we get

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Speaker 1: that logical organization of all the Asian rounds. But I

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Speaker 1: guess on the flip side, that does mean if you're

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Speaker 1: an Australian viewer, you're getting all your fun races out

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Speaker 1: of the way where you don't have to set your

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Speaker 1: alarms at any particular time, and then there won't be

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Speaker 1: any to look forward to for the rest of time.

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Speaker 2: You're still preemptively traumatized by the F one bah Rain

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Speaker 2: Murder GP Qatar double header that immediately follows Suzuka. So

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Speaker 2: I will enjoy this weekend and then get into the

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Speaker 2: fetal position for the following weekend.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yes, and we'll see you again in

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Speaker 1: presumably about three or four weeks. Let's start with the

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Speaker 1: biggest news of the week. We foreshadowed this, of course

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Speaker 1: after the Chinese Grand Prix when these rumors emerge, and

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Speaker 1: so they've come to pass that Liam Lawson has been

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Speaker 1: demoted after just two Grand Prix from Red Bull Rays.

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Speaker 1: In his place will stand Yuki Sonoda at long last

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Speaker 1: in his fifth season in Formula One, getting the nod

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Speaker 1: for the senior team. Now only a few months ago

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Speaker 1: the team considered him not up to the task, in fact,

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Speaker 1: foreshadowed that he would be dropped by the end of

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Speaker 1: the year. Lo and behold, he'll be lining up alongside

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Speaker 1: Max Verstappen this weekend. Let's start with the Yuki Sonoda

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Speaker 1: component of this before we consider Liam Lawson and what

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Speaker 1: this means for the broader Red Bull program. This is

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Speaker 1: what Red Bullbacks drivers aspire to do, is to race

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Speaker 1: for the senior team. Seemed like it was never going

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Speaker 1: to happen for him. It has happened for him, But

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Speaker 1: just how much pressure is on him for his first

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Speaker 1: race in a car that's already killed several careers to

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Speaker 1: be his home rates?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I know, look, I mean, I know this is

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Speaker 2: terrible podcast content, but I spent the last minute as

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Speaker 2: you were teeing that up shaking my head, which is

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Speaker 2: not great for an audio podcast, but not great content.

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Speaker 2: But how much pressure is here is he under? I'd

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Speaker 2: almost ask I can't think of a situation where there's

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Speaker 2: been a driver under more pressure than this, because we

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Speaker 2: know that we have races on the calendar where home

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Speaker 2: drivers have hugely excitable fan bases. I mean we saw

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Speaker 2: every single time Sergio Opeiz went to Mexico, and particularly

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Speaker 2: if he was out early in the races, he was

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Speaker 2: a couple of times. You can just feel the way

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Speaker 2: that fan base lives and dies on every single thing

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Speaker 2: that that particular driver does. But you know, for anyone

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Speaker 2: who's not been to Suzuka, you could not find a

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Speaker 2: more passionate and probably educated and informed fan base. They

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Speaker 2: are going to understand the consequences of what this means

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Speaker 2: and what this opportunity is for Sonoda. And it's happened

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Speaker 2: so late in the day, literally a week before his

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Speaker 2: home Grand Prix. I'm struggling to think of a driver

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Speaker 2: that would be under more pressure at their home race

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Speaker 2: than what he's about to go through this weekend. So

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Speaker 2: you can look at it from two perspectives. Great for

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Speaker 2: him that he gets the opportunity to experience this pressure, because,

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Speaker 2: as you said before, this was an opportunity we thought

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Speaker 2: was never going to happen as recently as about two

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Speaker 2: races ago before Leam Wilson got in their car at

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Speaker 2: Albert Park, which is a ridiculous sentence to say, but

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Speaker 2: only more ridiculous because it's actually happening. But oh man,

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Speaker 2: what it means for him, he to my mind, is

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Speaker 2: he's being set up to fail simply because this is

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Speaker 2: not a car that he's driven before. He's done no

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Speaker 2: preseason testing, he hasn't done the first two Grand Prix

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Speaker 2: of the year in it. He's actually had two very

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Speaker 2: good Grand Prix weekends without the points to show for

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Speaker 2: in Australia and China with RB, which looks to be

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Speaker 2: a much more benign car that you can probably pretty

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Speaker 2: confidently extract a performance out of. He's going to be

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Speaker 2: thrown into the fire at his home Grand Prix with

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Speaker 2: all of this expectation, knowing that he's got this career

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Speaker 2: reprieve that we none of us including him, probably saw coming,

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Speaker 2: and in a car that has been incredibly problematic so far.

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Speaker 2: Because yes, we can look at what Maxlstappan has done.

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Speaker 2: Whether he's on the podium in Australia, he was fourth

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Speaker 2: in China. There were bits of China where he looked

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Speaker 2: really wrong. As we discussed last week, Max Fastapan is

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Speaker 2: in the top what five Formula One drivers probably to

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Speaker 2: ever do it. You've got a driver that's still searching

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Speaker 2: for podiums and you know his feet are clearly in

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Speaker 2: the fire here. It's such a pressure cook situation and

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Speaker 2: because he's not prepared for it, because he hasn't had

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Speaker 2: the hours and time in the car, I find it

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Speaker 2: really hard to see how you're going to be able

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Speaker 2: to come the limitations of the machinery and the pressure

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Speaker 2: and the fact that you just don't have any experience

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Speaker 2: with this team in this car and produce a result

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Speaker 2: out of it. I just don't see how that's in

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Speaker 2: his best interests from a Red Bull point of view.

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Speaker 2: But as you discussed last week, there's just a hint

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Speaker 2: of desperation to the whole thing at this point, isn't there?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, desperation and panic, I think from Red Bull's perspective

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Speaker 1: to have made a move so quickly, it's interesting to

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Speaker 1: think about Yuki Sonoda's position because everything you said absolutely right,

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Speaker 1: there's no less optimal way to make your debut for

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Speaker 1: this team, never mind at your home Grand Prix. But

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Speaker 1: I wonder whether or not his approach will actually be

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Speaker 1: that there's almost nothing to lose its notwithstanding he obviously

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Speaker 1: wants to do well at home. It would be great

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Speaker 1: for him to be up to speed at this race,

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Speaker 1: but in general going forward to the next several Grand Prix,

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Speaker 1: because it really felt like he was out of options

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Speaker 1: by the end of this year career wise. Anyway, Red

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Speaker 1: Bull had telegraphed pretty significantly that he wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: be renewed after this. That's assuming that Avid Libland, the

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Speaker 1: next guy in line is in Formula two, is going

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Speaker 1: to be stepped up, and Christian Horne is pretty keen

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Speaker 1: to see him do that. Isaac cadjarh and the evidence

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Speaker 1: of two races has been doing pretty well and there

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Speaker 1: aren't very many seats available next year short of perhaps

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Speaker 1: going to Cadillac. We may very well have seen Yuki

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Speaker 1: Sonoda sidelined in twenty twenty six, and considering how many

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Speaker 1: young guns there are in the sport now and moving up,

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Speaker 1: it's not as straightforward as I think it's been made

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Speaker 1: to look. By some other drives in recent years to

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Speaker 1: just come back after a year or two. So just

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Speaker 1: by getting this Red Bull drive, it at least gives

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Speaker 1: him well the objective that he's been targeting for so long,

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Speaker 1: and maybe if he can make it work by the

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Speaker 1: end of the year, not necessarily this weekend, he could

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Speaker 1: at least get another season. Because also, let's be honest,

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Speaker 1: if it's not him, who else have they got? Which

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Speaker 1: I think is the other element of this, right, This

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Speaker 1: is we talk about desperation. This is I mean this

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Speaker 1: will not disrespect to Yuki Synod because it sounds much

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Speaker 1: worse than I mean it. This is the bottom of

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Speaker 1: the barrel for ed Bull. Now they've run out of

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Speaker 1: all their options. They've literally chosen the guy last year

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Speaker 1: they said was not good enough for this.

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Speaker 2: They've done the equivalent of opening the cupboard looking for

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Speaker 2: a clean glass, and there's not even a dirty glass

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Speaker 2: in the cupboard. The cupboard is bare. Anyone who's just

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Speaker 2: moved house recently would sympathize with this. But look, you're

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Speaker 2: right with the nothing to lose, and as harsh as

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Speaker 2: it is to effectively bin loss it off after two

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Speaker 2: races and put Sonoda in there, that's harsh, But I'm

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Speaker 2: more looking at where this is. And so if we

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Speaker 2: were in Bahrain this weekend, or even if we're in

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Speaker 2: China this weekend, or frankly anywhere else on the calendar,

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Speaker 2: but Yuki's home race. We know that he has been

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Speaker 2: an emotional driver of his Formula One career. You can't

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Speaker 2: help but get emotional as a non Japanese driver at

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Speaker 2: the Japanese Grand Prix because of the status that this

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Speaker 2: event is held in. It's one thing to debut in

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Speaker 2: a cave, never driven after a couple of races, but

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Speaker 2: here with this crowd. And also this circuit for anyone

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Speaker 2: that's not been to Suzuka, it's one of the true

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Speaker 2: old school. Very few circuits are like this anymore, and

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Speaker 2: that it's hemmed in by geography and you can only

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Speaker 2: make this circuit safe and on music air quotes here

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Speaker 2: by Formula one standards. You're restricted by the region that

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Speaker 2: it is in. It was built in the sixties, it's

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Speaker 2: very narrow, there's lots of things to hit in very

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Speaker 2: close proximity. It is a very very challenging racetrack. So

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Speaker 2: if he makes his debut for the team in Bahrain,

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Speaker 2: or Qatar certainly not certainly not jetdif for a round five,

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Speaker 2: but somewhere like Bahrain where there's car parks of runoff

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Speaker 2: on the exits of these corners, and yes, you can

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Speaker 2: make mistakes and your whole weekends, just not in the

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Speaker 2: dump star. That's the fear for me in that you

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Speaker 2: mentioned the odd weather at this time of year, the

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Speaker 2: amount of pressure. There are no small shuts at Suzuka,

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Speaker 2: and we always get them when you and I have

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Speaker 2: sat through some qualifying sessions there that have ticked into

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Speaker 2: the two hour marks have had four red flags as

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Speaker 2: the guy with the dustpan and brushes out there just

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Speaker 2: sweeping up bits of cars. So given that the car

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Speaker 2: is not a front running car, it will be very

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Speaker 2: hard for him not to overreach here because I don't

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Speaker 2: think it's just going to be Yeah, look, if I

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Speaker 2: get into Q two and I trundle around and finish

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Speaker 2: a reasonably competitive ninth, then that's a good result relative

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Speaker 2: to what Liam Lawson has done. That's not going to

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Speaker 2: be how this weekend goes, is it. So they're putting

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Speaker 2: him in there because they're expecting results. He's going to

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Speaker 2: be desperate to show them that they should have done

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Speaker 2: this all along. You add all the other factors that

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Speaker 2: I mentioned and the variance in what this could be.

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Speaker 2: Look on a personal level, it would be an amazing

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Speaker 2: story if he was to get a top five finish

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Speaker 2: or something like that. I don't know if this car

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Speaker 2: and that circuit is compatible for that, even perhaps in

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Speaker 2: Max Verstappan's hands. So to see what Sonoda might do

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Speaker 2: given the very very compromise run up, it's it's going

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Speaker 2: to be compelling. I'm not sure it's going to be

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Speaker 2: that pretty though.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is part of the other question that

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Speaker 1: I'm pondering ahead of this weekend, which is that may

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Speaker 1: look in the long term, things change form changes. By

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Speaker 1: the end of the year, as we said, Yuki Sonuda

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Speaker 1: might be roughly up to speed or at least, you

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Speaker 1: know where they roughly need him to be ahead of

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Speaker 1: Sergio Perez, which is the fundamental question Red Bull Racing

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Speaker 1: has been asking about the driver lineup this year. Who

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Speaker 1: can do better than Pairs has done in the last

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Speaker 1: couple of years. I think it hope Sonoda is capable

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Speaker 1: of that for his own sake, But is there any

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Speaker 1: way even in the medium term to Red Bull to

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Speaker 1: spin this, for Red Bull to spin this as a victory,

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Speaker 1: because there's only two outcomes here, right. One is that

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Speaker 1: Sonoda does just as badly or roughly as badly as

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Speaker 1: Lawson does, in which case you wonder, well, why did

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Speaker 1: you bin off this guy had just two races of

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Speaker 1: experience in your car ahead of the first track on

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Speaker 1: the Calendra, which he has experienced, and he's learning for

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Speaker 1: the first time or alternatively, so Nota does very well

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Speaker 1: and you say, well, what have you, guys beat? Why

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Speaker 1: have you held him out of the car for so long?

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Speaker 1: Why did you stick with Peis for so long? Why

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Speaker 1: did you lose the Constructors Championship last year when you

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Speaker 1: had options to switch out pairs for a driver you

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of money training up and he was

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Speaker 1: clearly capable of making the switch even last year. Even

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Speaker 1: for last year. I don't think there's any way for

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Speaker 1: the decision making process at Red Bull Racing to come

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Speaker 1: away from this looking good other than perhaps selling this

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Speaker 1: as a great awakening of all the mistakes the team's

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Speaker 1: ever made over the last twenty four months. I think

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Speaker 1: that's what I'm going to be interesting to see how

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Speaker 1: it's spun.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the Red Bull spin doctoring will be spinning faster

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Speaker 2: than it has ever spun before this weekend. Trying to

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Speaker 2: put lipstick on a pig of a situation here. But

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Speaker 2: ah man, it's just the point you mentioned about Lawson was,

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Speaker 2: to my mind the reason they weren't going to do

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Speaker 2: this yet used the word yet, because it seemed pretty

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Speaker 2: inevitable they were going to do it if you really

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Speaker 2: wanted to find out whether Liam Lawson did have what

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Speaker 2: it took in this particular car there. He doesn't have

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Speaker 2: a homegrown Prix obviously, this is the track he's done

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Speaker 2: more laps of in Formula one machinery and also just

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Speaker 2: machinery for four stop after his year in super Formula.

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Speaker 2: He knows this track really really well. And what that

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Speaker 2: does is it takes the variable of well, he'd never

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Speaker 2: raced anything in Australia and he'd race something in China

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Speaker 2: once a very long time ago. That wasn't very relevant

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Speaker 2: until you got back to Europe and went to the

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Speaker 2: tracks where these guys cut their teeth in the junior formulate,

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Speaker 2: this was the one you would have got a definitive answer.

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Speaker 2: So if you'd had him in the car at Suzuka,

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Speaker 2: it's all dreadful. He plods around and comes fourteenth. Then

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Speaker 2: he's absolutely nowhere out and Q one again. You have

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Speaker 2: every justification to make the move, and the way that

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Speaker 2: move would be received would be completely different to the

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Speaker 2: move that they have made. But the point that you

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Speaker 2: made before, it's if this does not work, and I

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Speaker 2: don't know what doesn't work constitutes So we talk what

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Speaker 2: sort of race sample size are we saying? Helmut Marco

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Speaker 2: said that he's in the car for the entire year.

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Speaker 2: I will believe that when I see it, judge by

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Speaker 2: the way that this organization works. But if this doesn't

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Speaker 2: work out, what do you do then? Because Arbad Lindblad's

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Speaker 2: not ready yet, Daniel Riccardo's gone, Danny Kevyat's probably waiting

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Speaker 2: by his mobile waiting for it to ring because he's

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Speaker 2: normally the guy that they go to in this situation,

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Speaker 2: Poor Danny. But what do they do if this doesn't work?

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Speaker 2: And there was a piece that you wrote on Fox

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Speaker 2: Sports last week that I found myself nodding my head

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Speaker 2: to again excellent podcast where you were saying that there

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Speaker 2: are so many eggs in the max for stap and

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Speaker 2: basket here. If this does not go well and Max

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Speaker 2: is looking at a car that's really really problematic to drive,

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Speaker 2: there doesn't seem to be anyone capable of being able

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Speaker 2: to assist him in this fight with the three other

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Speaker 2: teams at the front of Formula One, Then what is

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Speaker 2: Max going to think? And is there a performance clause

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Speaker 2: in his contract if the car drops to a certain

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Speaker 2: position in the constructors championship. The reason we say this

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Speaker 2: and the reason we bring up Suzuka is I believe

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Speaker 2: you were there. I definitely was in twenty fourteen. That

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Speaker 2: was the weekend that was announced that Sebastian Vatter was

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Speaker 2: going to Ferrari in twenty fourteen because that car drops

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Speaker 2: so far down in the constructors standings that zeb had

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Speaker 2: an outlaws in his contract to get out of there.

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Speaker 2: So you just wonder what it means longer term for

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Speaker 2: the biggest ace that Red Bull has in its pack

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Speaker 2: right now is they have a four time reigning world

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Speaker 2: champion who's doing everything he can to finish fourth in

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Speaker 2: a race in Shanghai. So you mentioned before how quickly

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Speaker 2: things change. I was just scatting last year's race results

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Speaker 2: from Suzuka before we came on red Bull won two.

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Speaker 2: Nothing to see here. If the staff had demolished everybody,

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Speaker 2: Sergeio Operez did what exactly they want to do in

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Speaker 2: the second card, don't get in Max's way, beat everyone else.

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Speaker 2: Happy days. That was round four last year and man,

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Speaker 2: things have taken a slight turn since then, have they not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, before we wrap this one up, we've got

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Speaker 1: to talk about the Liam Lawson perspective on this, because

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Speaker 1: he has missed out on that chance to race at

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Speaker 1: a circuit that he knows well and we're back himself

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Speaker 1: around because it's very well in super formula. It's the

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Speaker 1: forgotten element of it, as you mentioned, as well as

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Speaker 1: having raced quite competitively here two years ago when he

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Speaker 1: had the opportunity to do so with whatever the team

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Speaker 1: was called at the time. Alpha Tower is still think,

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Speaker 1: Alpha Tower Think. But yeah, yes, he's now back at

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Speaker 1: that team. It's been dressed up, as in the words

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Speaker 1: of the red of Christian Horner, in fact, as the

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Speaker 1: team exercising its duty of care to Liam Lawson by

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Speaker 1: dropping him from the main team into a car that is,

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Speaker 1: as we've said, more benign, easy to drive, does seem

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Speaker 1: perhaps at the limit of anyone other than Maxwistaff and

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Speaker 1: maybe even Borderline just behind the Red Bull Racing car

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Speaker 1: that remains to be seen. I guess we'll learn a

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Speaker 1: bit more about that this weekend. Now we've had this

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Speaker 1: driver's shuffle, what is prospects for his future? I've written

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Speaker 1: at the Fox Sports website about every other driver that's

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Speaker 1: been dropped by Red Bull Racing or Torosso or RB

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Speaker 1: or Racing Balls are Alpha Tower, et cetera. The outcome

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Speaker 1: look for most of them isn't great, the exceptions being

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Speaker 1: Pierre Gasly and Alex Elbourne, who have continued their careers

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Speaker 1: after being dropped from the senior team. Do you think

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Speaker 1: that actually being only two rounds in is I hate

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Speaker 1: to dress this up as a win for Liam Lawson

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Speaker 1: in the context of being dropped a positive rather than

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Speaker 1: them waiting till mid season the end of the year

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Speaker 1: when perhaps it could have ended his career on the spot.

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Speaker 2: And I've got to say the Christian Horner scale of

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Speaker 2: in sincerity has got a new entry after that particular

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Speaker 2: spin doctor from the Mothership. But I actually think short

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Speaker 2: term it's a win because the pressure is completely off

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Speaker 2: for now and we've seen already in the first two

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Speaker 2: rounds this year, the RB there racing Bulls chairs. I'm

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Speaker 2: confusing myself. The Racing Bulls car. It is a Q

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Speaker 2: three car because we've seen it. We've seen it in Melbourne,

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Speaker 2: we've seen it in China. It's clearly going to be

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Speaker 2: a more benign, predictable car to drive. And you would

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Speaker 2: imagine that all Formula One drivers have their insecurities, as

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Speaker 2: by the front that they put up. He would be

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Speaker 2: feeling pretty just his confidence to be battered after the

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Speaker 2: first couple of rounds and then this public dismissal a

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Speaker 2: fortnight into this dream job that you've always wanted. So

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Speaker 2: if you've got a car that's more benign, has already

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Speaker 2: produced some decent results, and the expectations up pretty low

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Speaker 2: because it's pretty clear that the team doesn't seem as

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Speaker 2: that the organization doesn't see him as a worthy of

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Speaker 2: a seat in the top team. He's got a free

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Speaker 2: swing here, hasn't he. Now? I did read the story

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Speaker 2: that you mentioned and know these things don't tend to

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Speaker 2: go well. Gasly and Albon are the exceptions to the rule.

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Speaker 2: They were pretty impatient with Ghasly and they were very

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Speaker 2: patient with Albon and they both ended up in the

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Speaker 2: same place. The fact that both of them have resurrected

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Speaker 2: their careers. Album's just become this incredibly dependable team leader

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Speaker 2: and the adult in the room for Williams when they

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Speaker 2: are at their lower step. And Pierre Gasly is the

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Speaker 2: guy who if you're ever going to put your money on,

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Speaker 2: who's going to have the outlier podium or the result

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Speaker 2: from absolutely nowhere. He's not going to be as consistent

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Speaker 2: as Albon, but he's got these big spikes in his

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Speaker 2: performance curve where yeah, I mean every now and then

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Speaker 2: he is going to do something pretty remarkable. They are

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Speaker 2: so the exceptions to the rule here, and you hope

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Speaker 2: for Lawson's sake that he gets a reasonable crack at

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Speaker 2: trying to do something else now, whether it's within that

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Speaker 2: family or anywhere else. And as you said, there's not

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Speaker 2: a lot of seats available elsewhere, so he's kind of

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Speaker 2: stuck where he is. This is the biggest free swing

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Speaker 2: for him, because yes, he's at a track that he

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Speaker 2: knows he's not going to have to get used to it.

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Speaker 2: In Formula one machinery, he'll probably find the car has

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Speaker 2: a lower ceiling, but it's a lot more it has

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Speaker 2: a wider window to operate in. Can you imagine what

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Speaker 2: it's going to be like on Saturday if there's a

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Speaker 2: second Red Bull backed car that makes it into Q

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Speaker 2: three and that second car is Liam Lawson not Yuki Sonoda,

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Speaker 2: you cannot even imagine what the reception would be like,

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Speaker 2: both locally at Suzuka. But then what's the global discussion

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Speaker 2: point going to be because I don't think that's beyond

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Speaker 2: the realms of possibility at all, because we know how

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Speaker 2: difficult this circuit is, and then what happens then, like

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Speaker 2: how do we spin doc on that one?

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Speaker 1: It's set up so many fascinating questions that for all

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Speaker 1: of us very interesting, except probably if you work in

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Speaker 1: the Red Bull organization or right the press places, because

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Speaker 1: that's going to be a diffical weekend for you, I suspect.

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Speaker 1: Before we move on to other matters, it's time for

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Speaker 1: the Shannons move of the week. Now. I've only had

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Speaker 1: one race over the course of the weekend, and listeners,

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Speaker 1: you'll have seen already in your feet the Murder GP

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Speaker 1: edition of Pit Talk has already been out fully debriefing

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Speaker 1: the America's Grand Prix at Kota, but nonetheless move of

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Speaker 1: the week. Look, I read the fine print. It says move,

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Speaker 1: doesn't say overtake, doesn't even necessarily need to be in

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Speaker 1: a race. So it gives us full flexibility, does it

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Speaker 1: night when we want type of things. Not saying I'm

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Speaker 1: going to pull that card yet, but I'm just saying

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Speaker 1: it's out there. But why don't you kick us off? Matt,

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Speaker 1: what was your move of the week.

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Speaker 2: Well, you've handed the card to me, and I am

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Speaker 2: pulling out of the pack right now, because yes, there

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Speaker 2: were some good overtakes in both the Sprint and the

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Speaker 2: Grand Prix at Cota, and I'm sure you can talk

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Speaker 2: about one of those. I'm saying the move of the

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Speaker 2: week was Mark Marquez standing beside his bike and then

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Speaker 2: electing to run off the grid with a couple of

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Speaker 2: minutes to go before the Grand Prix on Sunday, Monday morning,

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Speaker 2: Australian time, and effectively triggering an aborted start whenever one

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Speaker 2: looked at the fastest guy ever to go around circuit

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Speaker 2: of the Americas and say I think I'd better do

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Speaker 2: what he's doing, and then everyone just abandons, well half

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Speaker 2: the grid abandons their bikes and runs off the grid

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Speaker 2: to get onto the dry weather setup. So, as far

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Speaker 2: as moves go, Marquez working out that there was a

432
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,880
Speaker 2: loophole in the rule book that he could exploit. And

433
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 2: then as the sport is playing its opening credits for

434
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,639
Speaker 2: the Grand Prix and it's big TV show on a

435
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,120
Speaker 2: Sunday afternoon in most markets, the whole thing gets interrupted

436
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 2: by like a reverse Lomon style stampede, the Lamon style

437
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 2: we used to run to your car before the race.

438
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 2: These guys are running away from what they're supposed to

439
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 2: be writing, not running towards them, and you have like

440
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 2: one hundred one hundred meters sprint before at a bought

441
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 2: and start at a ten minute delay. So move of

442
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 2: the week A knowing that there was something in the

443
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 2: rule book to exploit, and then B being machiavellian enough

444
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 2: to say, I'm going to wait for this race to

445
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 2: nearly start and then run off the grid and create

446
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 2: complete chaos. That's my move of the week. It might

447
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 2: be the move of the season.

448
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 1: I love it, I really liked it. I also just

449
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: liked in what other like It's not obviously not possible

450
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 1: in any other four wheel motor sport to get out

451
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 1: of your car or vehicle and run away makes it possible,

452
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: and you won't see television pictures like that in any

453
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 1: other sport. I really enjoyed it. Fine, I'll go for

454
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 1: a more conventional pick. It's not that it wasn't the

455
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: probably not the most thrilling overtake of the weekend, but

456
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 1: it was Bana's passed on Alex Markez at the start

457
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,199
Speaker 1: of the Grand Prix or I think it was like

458
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 1: three or four anyway, Yes, it was for second place

459
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 1: at the time until Markes came off his bike. But

460
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 1: I thought it was really important considering the narrative of

461
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: the season up to this point or up till this weekend,

462
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 1: and even during this weekend, was that, well, what's he

463
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 1: going to have to answer? The Marquez brothers generally but

464
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: in particular obviously Mark Marquez finished third in everything behind

465
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: them seemed very much second class at that point. And

466
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 1: we also got to this point, hadn't we where we'd

467
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: written off this opening block of races as all being well,

468
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,719
Speaker 1: they're Marquez races. He's got to just limit the damage

469
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 1: to we get back to Europe and see what happens.

470
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: He didn't have to pass Mark Markez in the end,

471
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 1: but I just thought it was a really important moment

472
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 1: in terms of potentially changing that narrative, the idea that

473
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: he could challenge them, that he did put on a

474
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: move he had this go forward. I suppose we haven't

475
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 1: seen from him all season. Is it gonna be enough

476
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: to change things? We'll have to wait and see in

477
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: the next couple of races. But I thought there was

478
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: at least something positive to talk about from him in

479
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: relation to that lead battle that has emerged very early

480
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: in this season. So I thought it was a meaningful overtake,

481
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: even if it wasn't necessarily the most thrilling one. We'll

482
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 1: wait and see if it amounts to anything that I suppose.

483
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree. I think important in the moment,

484
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 2: but I think more important for what it might symbolize

485
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: going forward. It was a move he needed to make

486
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 2: for the sake of his season and the World Championship.

487
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, probably a little more conventional than mine, but

488
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 2: we'll share it.

489
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 1: Perhaps let's bring it back now to Formula one, where

490
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: there's been an unusual news story bubbling away since the

491
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 1: Chinese Grand Prix, and that is about power units. Perhaps

492
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: we can go back to just calling them engines. Because

493
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 1: V tens are they coming back? That is the question

494
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 1: you might have remembered. It was a couple of months ago. Now,

495
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: I suppose that I FIA President Muhammed bensul Amy in

496
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 1: that way. He has a habit of raising what occasionally

497
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 1: just seem like thought bubbles or just what's on his

498
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: mind at the time, that maybe F one could return

499
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 1: to V ten engines naturally aspirated because they're loud and exciting,

500
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,199
Speaker 1: powered by sustainable fuel, of course, to keep it in

501
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: line with the green credentials of the sport or the

502
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: sport that the sport are trying to sell. Anyway, and

503
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,360
Speaker 1: what seemed like a thought bubble actually is evolved into

504
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: quite a serious talking point in the sports being discussed

505
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: at the highest levels, including with the power unit manufacturers,

506
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 1: the teams obviously, the FIA and F one itself F

507
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: one President or F one CEO. Rather, Stefano Domenicale's already

508
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: suggested he would be behind it. A rare moment which

509
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: one the FIA are very much unified. It's also the

510
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: suggestion that Ferrari would back this move, perhaps not that surprising,

511
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 1: considering well, it just feels very Ferrari like doesn't it

512
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: naturally aspirated engines feels very in line with and Soo

513
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: Ferrari and everything he's thought about. Not everyone's for it,

514
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: of course, Audy for one, considering they have just come

515
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: back for the purpose of this new power unit that's

516
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: being introduced in twenty twenty six, doesn't sound like it's

517
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: fully behind. But let's start with the basics. Matt. V

518
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: ten engine is dramatically different from what we have right

519
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: now and what we will have from twenty twenty six,

520
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: which is pretty similar to what we have right now.

521
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: To be honest, just a little bit simplified. Is this

522
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 1: the direction of sport that's been trying to sell it's

523
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 1: technological and green credential should be moving.

524
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 2: In a long question with a short answer, No, I

525
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 2: think anyone that lived through the V ten era. My

526
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: hearing is still somewhat impaired because of the V ten era.

527
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 2: Nothing more exciting than standing in a pit lane when

528
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: cars were filing out for the sighting lap to the

529
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: grid and watching someone with a very heavy right foot

530
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: spin with the wheels up about three inches from your nose.

531
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: You knew you were alive in those days, that's for sure.

532
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 2: But there's a couple of things for this. With me,

533
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: the thought bubble analogy was interesting because to me, it

534
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 2: felt like it was being floated out there simply to

535
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 2: see what the response was going to be. And you

536
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 2: know the old saying that nothing sells like nostalgia. So

537
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: there's a certain fan base of Formula one that perhaps

538
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: has felt a little bit as we've gone into the

539
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: drive to survive era and fake marinas and twenty four

540
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 2: based calendars and so on and so forth. You know,

541
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 2: a lot of that new crowd to Formula one has

542
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: never experienced V ten engines because they were last seen

543
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: in the sport twenty years ago, and so there's something

544
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 2: that doesn't quite add up there. But it did feel

545
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: like it was just being dangled out there to see.

546
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: I wonder what the response will be, and the response

547
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: from the fan base will probably depend on what the

548
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 2: date of your birth certificate is and if you've ever

549
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 2: seen these things in the flash. But in terms of

550
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 2: what it means, all of these things are thrown out

551
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: there for some sort of political reason. Let's be perfectly honest,

552
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: And I think back to the last big engine change

553
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: that we had in twenty fourteen, whether you were four

554
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 2: or against. The introduction of V six turbo hybrids for

555
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: fourteen was probably how well you were prepared for it,

556
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: and we remember what happened in twenty fourteen. It was

557
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 2: this massive reset for the sport in that Red Bull

558
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: had spent the previous four years obliterating everybody and were

559
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: absolutely nowhere because the power plant they had at the

560
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 2: time was no good and Mercedes came on in twenty

561
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: four and just own the sport for the next five

562
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 2: years after that, with the occasional periods of Daniel Ricardo

563
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: witting races for Red Bull and Ferrari getting sacked together

564
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 2: from time to time. So there's always a political element

565
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: to the responses for something like this, and it's been

566
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure you found this. It's super interesting to see

567
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 2: the existing players in the sport and their thoughts on

568
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 2: this based onto how far they think they might be

569
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: advanced with their power plants for next season or not,

570
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 2: or if you're going to a relationship with a new

571
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: engine provider or not. Those sorts of things are quite

572
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: instructive with how some of the responses have been. But

573
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 2: you mentioned the wider point like part of getting Audi

574
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: in and Cadillac and it was this set of rules

575
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: that you could sell to the shareholders and the public

576
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 2: as a responsible carmaker and look at the way forward

577
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: and we're embracing technology and so on and so forth. I'm

578
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,479
Speaker 2: not sure bringing back a V ten engine, but oh,

579
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: it's all powered by a sustainable fuel. That'll all be fine.

580
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that ticks a box on a corporate

581
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: level for a lot of these new players in Formula

582
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: one that signed up for something that well, they signed

583
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 2: up for something, and what they're being offered is something

584
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 2: that's not that. Yeah.

585
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: Really like a couple of points there. One that there's

586
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: a big new generation of fans who just have no experience,

587
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: certainly of V tens, maybe not even a V eights,

588
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: which would still feel like a relatively recent memory. But

589
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: we're more than a decade ago now, well before the

590
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 1: boom in popularity, and I do wonder how it would

591
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: be received by that new group of fans, something I've

592
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: been thinking about a little bit recently. And then yes,

593
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: combined with the idea that a big part of these

594
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: engine rules were to attract new manufacturers. Now you could

595
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: say twill techniques only done one, hasn't it, which is

596
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: Audi or the Volkswagen group has kind of attracted back honder,

597
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: I guess, depending on whether or not you view them

598
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: as having left the sport to begin with. But it

599
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: did convince them to come back or to recommit or

600
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: have you want to sell that you did lose Reno,

601
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,719
Speaker 1: But that really didn't have anything to do with the rules.

602
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: That has just to do with whatever with Reno. Yeah, yeah,

603
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: pretty much whatever wacky approach Rendo has been taking to

604
00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 1: F one recently. So sort of lukewarm response there. It's

605
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: worth pointing out this isn't going to happen for twenty

606
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: twenty six. It will not be replacing the new rules.

607
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: It's way too late for that. First of all, it

608
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: would need unanimous agreement between everyone, which doesn't happen in

609
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: F one. But it would also make for several times

610
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: just without engines I e. Audi also Mercedes suggest it

611
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to supply any customers. Aston Martin wouldn't

612
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: have a Honda engine to use because they haven't designed

613
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: one yet, so that's kind of different. I also think

614
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: there's something interesting here, isn't there about the choice of

615
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: V ten over V eight. I mean, I don't have

616
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: as great a recollection of the vten era, And to

617
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: be fair, it's maybe not fair to compare them anyway,

618
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 1: because in my mind I remember a lot of unreliability,

619
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: but also the sport generally was less reliable. Then it

620
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be the same now. Technology has simply advanced

621
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: to deal with a job now, so maybe that's not

622
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,719
Speaker 1: going to be part of it. But there is an

623
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 1: additional political element here, which is that And I do

624
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: wonder if this is genuine forward thinking f one's at

625
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: the It's at the crest of a wave, isn't it.

626
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: The popularity has never been greater. Everything's going really well

627
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: where twenty four races, sport's making a lot of money.

628
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: There are new tracks coming onto the calendar. We're now

629
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: staying to choose which ones need to rotate to maximize

630
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: all that kind of thing. Eventually, and I do hear

631
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: this talked about more and more, or ponder about anyway

632
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,239
Speaker 1: the bubble will burst. Now. We don't know if that's

633
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: going to be a massive stock market style crash where

634
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: no one watches it anymore, or whether it's just a

635
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: tempering of that unbridled enthusiasm we see in the general public.

636
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: Now for Formula One, But when that happens, historically we

637
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: know that manufacturers leave. Nowada's already a little bit lukewarm.

638
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: They've already sold half the team to Kata. You don't

639
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: know if that's going to continue to happen, depending on

640
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: rule changes whatever. Honda has sort of left and come back,

641
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: and Reno has left all that kind of stuff. There's

642
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: roomors about Alpine being sold. Does move into a simpler

643
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: power unit of V ten which anyone could build, is

644
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: my understanding of it. Maybe I'll try it when I

645
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: get home. Safeguard the sport against the idea that in

646
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: the not too distant future manufacturers could leave and you

647
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: need an engine that's cheap and easy to build. In

648
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: your absolute worst case scenario, you could go to independent

649
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: builders like the Sports occasionally flirted with the idea of

650
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: going back to Cosworth's style engines of independence if needed.

651
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: Perhaps there is actually quite a forward thinking element at

652
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: play here whereby the sport is safeguarded from that.

653
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: That's got to be part of it, because you know,

654
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: we've had this discussion before because of our various ages

655
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: and stages and our sort of journeys being around the

656
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 2: sport is that the bubble can't keep growing forever. I mean,

657
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: bubbles can't do that. They eventually fracture, don't they. And yes,

658
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: it's amazing to see where the sport has come in

659
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 2: a relatively short period of time. You can look at

660
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: the twenty fourteen change I mentioned. I believe the first

661
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: Strive to Survive series is what twenty twenty I believe.

662
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: I think it was like a sort of Lockero own

663
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: viewing for a lot of people at Australia. I think

664
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: it was the first season as twenty nineteen leaving the team. Yes,

665
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: of course that's right, Yeah, going to Reno. So you've

666
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: had this unbelievable growth and popularity for a sport that's

667
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: in a certain form going back to V tens. Look

668
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: it's as a spectator sport.

669
00:30:59,640 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: It was.

670
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: It was a little confronting, I've got to say, in

671
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: an exciting way, don't get me wrong, but it's a

672
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: very different fan base right So I do wonder how

673
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: that's going to play. But I can't help but think

674
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: that this is just another political football for all of

675
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 2: the interested parties to kick around. And you mentioned the

676
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: key thing before that unanimity. Like most Formula One teams

677
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: can't agree on what type of day it is. So

678
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 2: to try and get something as big as this pushed

679
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: through in the future is with unanimous approach is one. Also,

680
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: if we're doing this in twenty thirty one or whatever

681
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: it's being broached, then what are we investing all this

682
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: money for now? For something that's going to be obsolete

683
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 2: in four years? If this all goes ahead, that seems

684
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: financially irresponsible if that's the case, and just completely crazy

685
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: in that there's teams that are moving forward to a

686
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: particular future and then we're just going to completely reverse

687
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: course and go another way. So I do wonder if

688
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: this is just something that's been put out there as

689
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: something to trade. You know, it's a bit of a

690
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: horse trading power trading situation, and it just becomes another

691
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 2: political front for which the sport fights on that When

692
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: I first read it, the first thing I did was

693
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: check to see if it was the first of April.

694
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 2: Would you today? Actually, as we're recording this, thought, oh,

695
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: it's an elaborate April fools stay joke, But no it's not.

696
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think where you stand on this

697
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: very much depends on what you've got to lose rather

698
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: than gain, and I think that'll shape the conversation as

699
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: this goes on for however long that goes on. MAW.

700
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: Before we wrap this one up, let's look ahead to

701
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: the Japanese Grand Prix this weekend. We've talked a little

702
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: bit about what will undoubtedly be the biggest story of

703
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: this weekend, Yuki Sanoa's home debut for Red Bull Racing,

704
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: But of course we resume a championship that has certainly

705
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: felt like McLaren is building momentum for having won the

706
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: first two Grand Prix of the year, one apiece for

707
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: Orlando Norris and Osco Piastre. I want to talk about

708
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: those two drivers in particular and McLaren's place at the

709
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: top of the order. We you know, from the last

710
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: two seasons this has been a McLaren track. Hasn't been

711
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: in that winning position that we've got used to seeing

712
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: them in because Red Bull Racing's position at the top

713
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: of the sport has only relatively recently in challenge. It

714
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: would have been interesting to see actually had Japan been

715
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: run in its traditional time soot at the end of

716
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: the last year. Yes, perhaps got quite a different result.

717
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: But the Chinese Grand Prix for me has set the

718
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 1: scene more than any other element, and this is from

719
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: the Oscar Piastre perspective. We've seen him struggle a little

720
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: bit in Japan relative to Lando Norris. An emphasise relative

721
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: because this was of course his first podium two years ago,

722
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: the first Grand Prix podium of his career. Qualified quite

723
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: well but raced way off Norris's pace. It was a

724
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: big turn around the middle of that race. Last year

725
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: the gap was improved but was still behind Norris, and

726
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: the race performance overall was a little bit lackluster for

727
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: McLaren in their slow start to last season. This year

728
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: they're coming with a car that started in the right

729
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: way competitively obviously, a track that should suit the car,

730
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: and an Oscar Piastri who looks like he has taken

731
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: on the evidence of course of only two Grand Prix,

732
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: quite a big step. And I wonder about whether this

733
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: is I mean for me, I think this is a

734
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: big momentum builder for either driver. If either of the

735
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: McLaren drivers is to win, I think that's significant for

736
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: both of them. Acknowledging, of course, we've got two subsequent

737
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: races to come in the Middle East after this, and

738
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: that could change the narrative before we get to our

739
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: next weekend off. But I feel like this is an

740
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,479
Speaker 1: important one given we expect McLaren to come here and

741
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: sort of have things its own.

742
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 2: Way well, and important for Piastre too because I think

743
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: we get this instant answer to the question as to

744
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: how much he's actually kicked on, because we know Norris

745
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: is a pretty consistent high level operator at this point,

746
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 2: so I don't think there's going to be too many

747
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: surprises with him being up the front of that's the

748
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: way it turns out, and being very strong this weekend

749
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: where Piastre is relative to Norris, and particularly if that's

750
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: a head at a circuit where Norris has had his

751
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: measure recent previously. The Piastre of twenty twenty five I

752
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 2: think is a much more finished product than twenty four

753
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 2: and twenty three were. And twenty three there were elements

754
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: of being really impressive in a car that wasn't great,

755
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: and twenty four there were periods of being very very

756
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: impressive in a car that was slow to get to

757
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: the boil, but then once it got there it had

758
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 2: a very very high level. There were some things that

759
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 2: he needed to iron out last year qualifying not with

760
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: probably being the main one, and that was the lowest

761
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: hanging for it for him to improve. The nature of

762
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 2: the way this race is run at Suzuka is that

763
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 2: it's a complete driver's track. The cars look very very fast,

764
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 2: and it's very very exciting, and it's narrow and it's

765
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 2: one track and there's not a lot of fantastic racing

766
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 2: at this track. So to my mind, Saturday Afternoon Qualifying

767
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 2: is a really big early season marker for Piastre. We

768
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: saw that he got pole in China last time out.

769
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: This race is very very often won in relatively benign

770
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: conditions by the polesitter because it is a very tough

771
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: track on which to pass, particularly if the person you're

772
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 2: trying to passes in a car that's just as good

773
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 2: as yours if you'd seen mates. So, to my mind,

774
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 2: Saturday Afternoons Q three, should things go as we expect

775
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: is the first real pinch point of the year because

776
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: we saw McLaren had a car advantage in Australia. The

777
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: weather kind of mitigated that to an extent and we

778
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: saw appen to Piastrian. It didn't go as we thought

779
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: it was going to in China, yes, Norris said he's

780
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: breaking shoes, but that was a pretty nailed on one

781
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 2: two for McLaren when it became a one stop race.

782
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 2: But Q three Saturday afternoon is the thing I'm most

783
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 2: excited about this weekend because it's like, all right, boys,

784
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: low fuel, one lap, let's go, And if Piastre is

785
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: able to be ahead of Norris or the gap is minimal,

786
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: that's going to say a massive amount for the rate

787
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 2: of progress he's made season on season. So I'm quite

788
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: jealous that you're going to be there for that one

789
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: because I think that last four minutes, last run in

790
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 2: Q three is going to be pretty awesome.

791
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean it always is here. This is

792
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: the other element, regardless of whether or not you've got

793
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: this championship permutations. It's early in the season, whatever low

794
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: fuel qualifying. Running at this circuit, a proper driver's circuit,

795
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: as we've said, is just impressive. Sometimes I'm disappointed that

796
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: I feel like Japan gets a little bit forgotten in

797
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: the talk of historic great F one circuits in favor

798
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: of all the European ones. And obviously there are many

799
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: great European ones, but Suzuka is special and so qualifying

800
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: is always very exciting, more so for the context of

801
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: this weekend. Well, on that note, Matt, why don't we

802
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: have a look to this weekend with the complete home

803
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: filtration Crystal Ball. I made the prediction last week, you

804
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: might remember, and I am obliged, not just obliged, but

805
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: feel good about sticking with it. Notwithstanding everything we talked

806
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: about in this podcast that Yuki Sonoda would be on

807
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: for a home podium. If anything, I would have felt

808
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: more confident had he not switched to Red Bull Racing.

809
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: It's out there, No, no, what are you going to

810
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: predict this weekend?

811
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: Oh, that's fantastic. I was going to predict a Red

812
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: Bull driver change before FP one on Friday. Oh was

813
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 2: still damn well I predicted, But I just don't know

814
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: who they're going to put in there. That's the only problem.

815
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 2: But it's only from it's only from lack of available

816
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 2: options rather than the fact that they might actually do it.

817
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 2: But I'm going to predict a Grand Prix podium for Lewis,

818
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 2: Hamilton and Ferrari. We saw that he won the sprint

819
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: race in Shanghai and this is a track where he's

820
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: had some success in the past. And I think he's

821
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 2: going to have a much smoother weekend, and I think

822
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 2: there is a spot available on the podium, and I

823
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 2: think the person wearing it will be wearing red overall.

824
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: So there's my prediction.

825
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: I like it. I do think despind again, everything we've

826
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: said this weekend the asterisk of two Grand Prix so far,

827
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: but I do think the progress has been there, just

828
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: difficult to see, and it's because the problems with Lewis

829
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: Hamilton's race in China in particular are clear to see

830
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: in the debrief. The sprint I don't think was a

831
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: random flash in the pan. I'd obviously think that the comfort,

832
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: the comfort with which he won it maybe was exaggerated,

833
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: but I think there is pace there, both in the

834
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: car and the driver. I don't know if it's anything

835
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: like title winning pace or even race winning pace, but

836
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: I think there's more to come there, and it could

837
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: be Japan. So like you say that he's done well

838
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: at I like that prediction. I'm just going to go

839
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: straight for the low hanging fruit. The popular Fox Sports opinion,

840
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: which is that Oscar piastri can just straight up win

841
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: this Grand Prix. I think it'd be really significant one

842
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 1: if he does, not just because it's such a great track,

843
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: but for all the reasons we've said. I think it'd

844
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: be a great momentum builder for him and his title campaign,

845
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: which we expect him to be going up pretty much.

846
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: It's just against his teammate at least at this stage,

847
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: Landon Norris, So any victory is important in that context.

848
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 1: And I think that particularly coming off the Chinese Grand Prix,

849
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: we Land of nor has had a little bit of

850
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: a quiet one, I think will be hugely significant. And look,

851
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 1: it'd be popular at home.

852
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 2: It'll be popular at home for all the people that's

853
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 2: going to be congratulated for getting up at three am

854
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: to watch some but that might be me because I'll

855
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,439
Speaker 2: because I'll be enjoying watching this Grand Prix at three

856
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 2: pm in time for my Sunday roast afterwards.

857
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: It is a beautiful thing, is it. On that note,

858
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 1: that's all the time we have for pit Talk today.

859
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to pit Talk wherever you get your

860
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: favorite podcasts, and you can leave us a rating and

861
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: review as well. This weekend, as you said, Matt is

862
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: the Japanese Grand Prix. It starts at three pm Australian

863
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Speaker 1: Eastern Standard Time because the clocks go back. Isn't that

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Speaker 1: it's exciting for someone. I suppose you came up to

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Speaker 1: take with all the latest F one supercars andmodogbews at

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Speaker 1: foxsports dot com dot Au from Matt Clayton and me,

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Speaker 1: Michael Lovedado. Thanks very much for your company and we'll

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Speaker 1: get you next week