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Speaker 1: Appoche Production.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO series.

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Speaker 2: This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.

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Speaker 1: Happy people create happy businesses.

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Speaker 3: True emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vomit once on

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Speaker 3: our about our fourth flight, and.

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Speaker 2: Everybody thought, well, if it's good enough for him, I

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Speaker 2: can do it Now. We will be joined by culture

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Speaker 2: and leadership experts and some superstar CEOs who will courageously

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Speaker 2: tell us the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. Today

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Speaker 2: I'm speaking to someone who has helped not just a business,

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Speaker 2: but an entire industry, Zimi Meeker, who is the co

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Speaker 2: founder and CEO of Orsenco, a company that started in

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Speaker 2: Brisbane and now spans the globe, twenty six officers, fourteen

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Speaker 2: countries and over three thousand people. His leadership has been

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Speaker 2: recognized with some of the industry's highest honors, including the

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Speaker 2: oz Imm Institute Medal, Queensland Professional Engineer of the Year,

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Speaker 2: and induction into the Engineer's Australia Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 3: He started to sink.

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Speaker 2: It at thirty, not with a roadmap, but with a

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Speaker 2: gut instinct that there was a better way to do things.

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Speaker 2: And over three decades later, that instinct has built something extraordinary.

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Speaker 2: I am super excited to have you here todays of me.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Emma. So good to be here.

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Speaker 3: How does that feel it hearing all that?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, god, yeah, Look just a little pick up.

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Speaker 1: We're now four thousand people.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, so you're growing.

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Speaker 1: He's putting nice. But yeah, when you summarize it like that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's been quite a journey.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I'll be honest.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes what I two people, there's a lot I find

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Speaker 2: online and sometimes there's not a lot. So I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: say there was a lot about you, which I kind

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Speaker 2: of like because then it means I get to ask

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Speaker 2: all the questions here. What I did know was that

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Speaker 2: your dad was an immigrant from southern Europe.

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Speaker 3: Is that correct?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Yes? So when did he come over?

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Speaker 1: He came over about nineteen forty nine, nineteen fifty somewhere

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Speaker 1: around there as a refugee.

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Speaker 3: With your mum or met.

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Speaker 1: My mum was born here, but her parents are from

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Speaker 1: the same place as dad.

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Speaker 3: Okay, right, and so you're born in Bred and Brisbane. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I love that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So what if you sort of had to summarize

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Speaker 2: what childhood was like for you, what was your sort

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Speaker 2: of fondest memories or how would you describe it?

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Speaker 1: You know, family was really important, an extended family. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so cousins, my mum was a twin, my aunt's kids,

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Speaker 1: ourselves would always get together every probably every day after school.

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Speaker 1: And I was up at Calounder the other day and

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Speaker 1: memory came back. We'd go to Calounder every second weekend,

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Speaker 1: have a picnic in a certain park and I drove

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Speaker 1: past it just flood of memories. So it's always people around,

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Speaker 1: people visiting lunches, dinners, barbecues, very social, very family.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right. And thinking about your dad, So he was

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Speaker 3: a taxi driver, is that right he was?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I'm assuming he played a pretty important

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Speaker 2: part of your life and influence.

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Speaker 1: Very important. You know. Dad he escaped a communist rule,

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Speaker 1: so he was seventeen eighteen when his father told him

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Speaker 1: to leave and he escaped, so the country was pretty

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Speaker 1: much locked. Dad escaped into neighboring Greece and Macedonia and

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Speaker 1: then never saw his father again or mother, And two

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Speaker 1: years later he came to Australia. So I cannot imagine

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Speaker 1: how difficult that would be as a seventeen eighteen year

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Speaker 1: old to be told you need to go because there's

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Speaker 1: no future for you here. And as a result, he

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Speaker 1: never saw his dad again. And his dad ended up

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Speaker 1: being in a interned in a camp for a number

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Speaker 1: of years as a result. And I've had seventeen or

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old children. They're much older now, But just

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Speaker 1: the thought of doing that as a parent, and then

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Speaker 1: him doing it, and then out into the big wide

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Speaker 1: world coming to Australia, couldn't speak English dealing with all

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Speaker 1: of that. You know, sometimes I have a bad day

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Speaker 1: and I just reflect on that day.

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Speaker 2: It's not that hard bit of perspective. Yeah, what do

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Speaker 2: you think from what he went through? How do you

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Speaker 2: think that influenced the way he brought you up?

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Speaker 1: He was all bad education because he didn't have any

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Speaker 1: go to school, get good marks, university and have a

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Speaker 1: career because he didn't. So that was a very important

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Speaker 1: part for him, was to make sure we all, not

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Speaker 1: just me, but brothers, ancestor well educated and work hard.

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Speaker 1: You know, Dad worked pretty hard in that work ethics,

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Speaker 1: something that we all have.

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Speaker 3: So did I read write that he'd get you to

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Speaker 3: help fix the taxis?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Do all that I mean the taxis would run twenty

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Speaker 1: four or seven and it stopped out at Runcorn. We'd

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Speaker 1: drive for half an hour and get over there, and

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Speaker 1: I'd have to try and figure out how to start

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Speaker 1: this thing. Yeah, And I'd help him with that, and

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Speaker 1: i'd help him with you know, just business stuff, you know,

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Speaker 1: if we couldn't read a.

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Speaker 2: Document, okay, right right, Yes, English wasn't his own.

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Speaker 1: I'd go along to meetings with him and he'd ask

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Speaker 1: for my input or I'd write something for him, stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. So a very young age, I kind of

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Speaker 1: hung around him and my uncle who was his brother,

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Speaker 1: another big influencer in my life, and just watch them

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Speaker 1: do business and stuff. Had a very young age.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that could sometimes go missing in this

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Speaker 2: day and age, where that sort of early experience or

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Speaker 2: what your parents are doing in that exposure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's a saying that it takes a

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Speaker 1: village to grow at a child. Yeah, and that's the

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Speaker 1: sort of environment I grew up there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, fantastic.

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Speaker 2: Did you actually want to be an engineer? Or like,

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Speaker 2: how much of us was your dad pushing you into it?

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Speaker 1: Look, I think influence for rather than push you know,

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Speaker 1: I always liked to understand how things worked. I always

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Speaker 1: liked building things from a very young age. I built

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Speaker 1: moral cars and moral planes and stuff like that. So

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Speaker 1: I always liked seeing the achievement of something getting built.

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Speaker 1: I just think he helped take that and put it

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Speaker 1: into a specific profession. Yeah, you know, it just came

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Speaker 1: me along the way. But I don't regret at all

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Speaker 1: my career and what I did and how I chose

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Speaker 1: it and the rest of it, not at all, not

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Speaker 1: one minute. I love what we do. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't do much engineering as anymore, haven't done it for

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Speaker 1: quite a while, but I love achieving what we do.

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Speaker 3: Yeahyeah, yeah, yeah, Okay.

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Speaker 2: So obviously you go to university, you study, you become

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Speaker 2: an engineer, and you start working.

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Speaker 3: And I guess I wanted to try to get to

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Speaker 3: this point.

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Speaker 2: So when I took about boldness as part of the

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Speaker 2: brave model, having that moment where you might have that

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Speaker 2: fear or you know, you could feel uncomfortable, that resistance

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Speaker 2: comes up, or you know, nervousness, but you just sort

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Speaker 2: of leap anyway.

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Speaker 3: So, if I'm correct, it was about thirty when you

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Speaker 3: made the decision.

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Speaker 1: I was thirty and yeah, I walked into the office

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Speaker 1: by myself turning thirty one.

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Speaker 2: So, okay, take me to that point in time where

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Speaker 2: you decided that you were going to do this, You

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Speaker 2: were going to branch out and you were going to

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Speaker 2: build something new and challenge what was out there.

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Speaker 1: I suppose, Yeah, I think I always thought I was

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Speaker 1: going to do that. You did, Yes, at some point

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Speaker 1: in my life, I always thought that I would start

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Speaker 1: my own business of some sort, and it was just

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Speaker 1: a question of when and when that timing was right

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Speaker 1: that had his own business. People all I knew you

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Speaker 1: had their own business, and for me, it was just

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Speaker 1: a matter of formulating what that was going to be

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Speaker 1: and at what stage when I decided was at a

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Speaker 1: point of frustration, you know, the job I had at

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Speaker 1: the time in the direction of that particular company, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that those people had started that business but

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Speaker 1: they had lost sight of what was important. And I

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Speaker 1: just felt that servicing clients, having good people, looking after

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Speaker 1: good people, creating great culture was really important. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, for me it was a matter of Okay,

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Speaker 1: now the time is right, and did I feel uncomfortable?

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Speaker 1: My view was thirty one, I got a mortgage, those days,

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Speaker 1: you had more equity in your house than what people

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Speaker 1: have these days. And I thought, what's the worst that

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Speaker 1: can go wrong here? I just go back and get

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Speaker 1: a job, right, Okay, But that wouldn't have been how

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Speaker 1: I'm made up. That would have been quite a devastating

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Speaker 1: thing if I had to do that. It had to

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Speaker 1: be successful.

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Speaker 2: So when you said it had to be successful, are

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Speaker 2: you one of those people who have Once you make

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Speaker 2: a decision and you put your mind to it, this failure.

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Speaker 3: Is not an option.

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Speaker 2: That's yeah, okay, And I think that's a really big

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Speaker 2: defining thing for people, is that you have to back

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Speaker 2: yourself correct, you know, and there's not always a guarantee,

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Speaker 2: but you still have to back yourself anyway.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And people ask me when they start off,

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Speaker 1: what's the advice said, we'll back yourself. You know, you

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Speaker 1: think you're good at what you do if you are

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Speaker 1: back at back do you know?

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Speaker 3: I find interesting?

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Speaker 2: So when I do these interviews particular people in sort

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Speaker 2: of the level of roles that you are, Like, would

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Speaker 2: you have considered yourself bold or brave at that.

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Speaker 3: Moment at thirty one?

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Speaker 1: Probably more bold?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Was it a bit of naivety? Yes, yeah, lots

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Speaker 3: of So this is my point, right, I find this

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Speaker 3: interesting for a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: They've said to me, Look, the truth is I was

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Speaker 2: in my either twenties or early thirties. If I'd actually

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Speaker 2: known the risk I was taking, yes, and what I

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Speaker 2: was walking into, yes, would I have done it?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Possibly?

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Speaker 1: Not correct?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: So absolutely right?

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Speaker 2: Then it says to me, then, how does boldness change

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Speaker 2: as we get older?

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Speaker 3: Then? So, like, how does it show up now?

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Speaker 1: I think there's still a strong element of boldness. However

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Speaker 1: it's tempered with a better assessment of risk that you

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Speaker 1: had maybe thirty years ago, where you would probably think

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Speaker 1: things through a little bit and introduce contingency plans more so,

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Speaker 1: but the boldness is still there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 2: So then on the flip side, obviously we've talked about

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Speaker 2: the fact that you know, you have to really believe

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Speaker 2: in yourself. But even if you're believe in yourself, self

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Speaker 2: doubt creeps in, right sometimes when no one's looking at night.

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Speaker 2: How does sort of self doubt if it come into play?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember a time where you started to think,

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Speaker 2: did it make the right move here?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Look, I think it is more around things outside

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Speaker 1: your control. Rather than what you can control. For example,

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Speaker 1: you know you can't control the market, you can't control

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Speaker 1: how you're going to be accepted by the clients, by

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Speaker 1: the industry. Then you do self doubt. I've got the

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Speaker 1: timing right. It's not you're doubting your ability to deliver,

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Speaker 1: execute be successful. Yeah, there's a whole lot of things happening.

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Speaker 1: Is a recession happening, you know? Is there some political

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Speaker 1: issues that are preventing people from investing into projects, And

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Speaker 1: it's more of that, And that's when you go first

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Speaker 1: ten years are pretty tough. You know, you start to

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Speaker 1: doubt things a little bit from that perspective, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to be successful, it's more a self assessing.

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Speaker 1: I think it's really important looking at your strengths and

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Speaker 1: your weaknesses and assessing those rather than doubting yourself.

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Speaker 2: So you've just mentioned the first ten year has been tough.

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Speaker 2: Is that your reflection if you look back at the

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Speaker 2: first ten years.

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Speaker 1: And years really tough. I mean, the mining industry was

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Speaker 1: in deep recession. Commodity prices were low, we hadn't had

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Speaker 1: the China supercycle yet, and it wasn't until about nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety eight that we really started to take off, you know.

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Speaker 1: So it's a long time good housekeeping. We made money,

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Speaker 1: made cash flow, but it wasn't like jumping out of

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Speaker 1: the park, that's sure. I think at the end of

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Speaker 1: the first decade we would have been two hundred people.

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Speaker 3: Right, Okay, So what was that about.

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Speaker 2: Is it about having unwaving faith or was there a

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Speaker 2: vision that you could see that you've got to hang

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Speaker 2: in there for the long game.

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Speaker 1: I just felt that we were going to be successful,

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Speaker 1: that feeling that you know, success was going to come

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Speaker 1: and it comes with hard work. Yeah, and that's not

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Speaker 1: being silly about it. But we were starting to get

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Speaker 1: a reputation. It's a very tough industry. I just feel that,

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Speaker 1: you know, you win one when something else. You go

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Speaker 1: into Africa, you go into Asia, and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, you go, I better start thinking about a

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Speaker 1: strategy here because you actually got a business, you know.

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Speaker 1: M No.

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Speaker 2: I think that's great because I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: people these days are looking for a really immediate return,

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Speaker 2: right Like if I haven't made it in six months.

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Speaker 3: Or a year, it's sort of all over drover.

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Speaker 2: Whereas you know, I think that's another story to the

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Speaker 2: fact that you've got to keep on plugging if you

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Speaker 2: know you've got the good bones there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. I watch people and they just yeah, twelve months, kaboom,

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Speaker 1: walk away. But if you believe in you, you know,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, product service, you know what you do,

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Speaker 1: what you do differently, you know success is going to come,

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Speaker 1: and you need some breaks and you need some luck

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Speaker 1: and all of that for sure.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that perseverance that's probably what makes

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Speaker 2: the difference beween those who make it and those who

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Speaker 2: do Right carew Yeah, I mean I think we kind

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Speaker 2: of like touched a little bit on the fact that

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Speaker 2: you've got to be resilient right as part of this.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I defined resilience as the obstacles on

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Speaker 2: the path as it's.

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Speaker 3: Going to come unavoidable. It's kind of how you show

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Speaker 3: up to it.

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Speaker 2: So I know there's a moment you spoke about with

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Speaker 2: some major deal fell through. There's a story I've heard

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Speaker 2: a little bit about right and you didn't know how

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Speaker 2: you were going to pay your team.

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Speaker 3: Can you share that story about how that kind of

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Speaker 3: down a bit?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, this was what we did was two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six we went public. That was the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the China boom, and we grew really quite quickly, and

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Speaker 1: you know, our share price rocketed and all those sorts

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Speaker 1: of things. And then what happened is that came off.

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Speaker 1: All commodity prices fell, and our revenue just dropped, and

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Speaker 1: I had to let people go, a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: a couple of thousand people. Wow, And that's very difficult

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Speaker 1: to do in a public environment. You know, revenue was dropping.

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Speaker 1: That was probably a two year period of you know,

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Speaker 1: where is this all going to go? Cash flows were tight.

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Speaker 1: At the end of it, we took the company private again, right,

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Speaker 1: So I found a partner who I've known for a

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Speaker 1: very long time, private equity fund who were shareholders when

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Speaker 1: we were private prior to listing, and they'd exited, and

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Speaker 1: then we took the company private and recapitalized and off

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Speaker 1: we went. But that was a really, really tough time

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't just us, that was the industry in general.

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Speaker 1: It tests your resilience, but more importantly, it tests your

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Speaker 1: team's resilience, and you see who can handle adversity and

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Speaker 1: who can't. And you know, people step up during times

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Speaker 1: of adversity and some don't. So that was a turning

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Speaker 1: point for us, and you know, we haven't looked back

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Speaker 1: since we did that, and that was twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: So when you have to get up the morning, you've

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Speaker 2: got to let go of a whole bunch of people,

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Speaker 2: right and affect their lives and amities.

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Speaker 3: Like all that. What's going through your head during those.

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Speaker 1: Like this, it's the worst experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to do it.

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Speaker 1: You just have to. You know, that's a part of

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Speaker 1: being a leader. You know, you've got some really good

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Speaker 1: bits and there's some really not so good bits, and

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Speaker 1: whoever says they enjoy there's not so good bits. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're not authentic in my mind. But you know I

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Speaker 1: sort of said to the leadership team at that time,

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Speaker 1: you know, we need to sort of focus on not

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Speaker 1: having to do this again. But it's outside your control,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's stumbling. And so we looked at our

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Speaker 1: revenue base and we've modified it to make it as

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Speaker 1: sustainable as we could. So we've never had to do

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Speaker 1: such a big reduction and grow rather than in those

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Speaker 1: sort of times, rather than pull back. So, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: not a pleasant.

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Speaker 3: From a resilience perspective. A lot of people talk about that.

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Speaker 2: Gret which I have no doubt you have right, especially

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Speaker 2: talking about your dad and that kind of hard work ethic.

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Speaker 2: But is that all you called on at times when

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Speaker 2: you need to be resilient? Is it just the grit

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Speaker 2: that gets you through? What else do you call upon?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I guess in a strength and believing that what

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Speaker 1: you're doing is for the benefit of a lot more

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Speaker 1: you know, people, and just grind through it.

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Speaker 2: Do you look after yourself like, is that a kind

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Speaker 2: of priority you burn myself to the grand kind of

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Speaker 2: guy or that.

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Speaker 3: Do you see a balance and taking care of yourself

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Speaker 3: as well?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? No, I do take care of myself, but I

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Speaker 1: do burn myself up and then I go, oh, I've

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Speaker 1: got to look after myself a bit here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know sometimes how people sleep. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm you know, fraction minor scale, have probably stress compared

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Speaker 2: to what you're going through then, And I have nights

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Speaker 2: where I lie there all night awake thinking over worrying.

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Speaker 3: Are you that Are you worried? What is going on?

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Speaker 2: Why are these people because you're okay? Is this a

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Speaker 2: male thing? I'm trying to figure out?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I am perplexed by this.

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Speaker 1: Well, even in very tough times.

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Speaker 3: How I need to know this.

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Speaker 1: I just switch off. I don't you switch off. I'm

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Speaker 1: not a sit at the look at the ceiling at

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Speaker 1: two a m. And it doesn't matter what's going on. I'm

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Speaker 1: just not I just figure lock that and now time

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Speaker 1: to sleep and I'm going to get eight hours good

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Speaker 1: sleep here, because.

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Speaker 2: You know what, I think it is a mean that

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Speaker 2: from what you said before, You've mentioned twice you've reference control, right,

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Speaker 2: And I teach a lot on Stephen COBE's circle of control.

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Speaker 3: Clearly, don't practice a lot of it. I get it.

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Speaker 3: You let go of the things that are not in

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Speaker 3: your control. Correct, So that's how you delutely all the time.

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Speaker 1: There's no point that point the energy into agreed not control.

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Speaker 2: Fantastic, Okay, love that. I do some work with mining,

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Speaker 2: and I have had some mining clients over the years.

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Speaker 2: I have some familiarity there. I wouldn't say it is

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Speaker 2: the most vulnerable industry to work in. No, No, it's

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Speaker 2: in fact, I think there's almost a misconception that you

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Speaker 2: can't have vulnerability in a sort of risk adverse environment.

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Speaker 2: And they're looking at systemic vulnerability versus like relational vulnerability, right,

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Speaker 2: so how have you managed to continue, Like, how is

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Speaker 2: it received in the organization?

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Speaker 1: I guess what my view is is just pure honesty,

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Speaker 1: and honesty is a path the authenticity. Yes, so if

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Speaker 1: you don't know, I'm sorry, I don't know that, I'll

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Speaker 1: come back to you. Or yeah, we've got a problem,

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Speaker 1: worn't know how we got it, We'll figure it out,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes it's how you run up to a problem

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Speaker 1: rather than the fact there is a problem, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: and being honest is just straight up how I've approached

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Speaker 1: working in this industry.

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Speaker 2: So if you had difficult news to deliver, you have

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Speaker 2: a sugarcoat?

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Speaker 3: Did that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Right, here it is you know we're going to

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Speaker 1: be late, we're going to be over budget, or but

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Speaker 1: this is what we're doing about it. So if you're

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Speaker 1: going to front front with the solution, right, what happens

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Speaker 1: as well is that you know, as time passes, your

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Speaker 1: reputation grows and then people can rely on what you

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Speaker 1: say and it's just this little snowball thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I agree, And obviously that comes very

401
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Speaker 2: naturally to you. However, in an industry where I don't

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Speaker 2: know if it's as common, how do you then ensure

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Speaker 2: that the people who work around you and who represent

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Speaker 2: you operate in the same way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's culture. Culture is king right strategy, None of

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Speaker 1: that matters if you haven't got a culture. In our organization,

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Speaker 1: we work really hard at our value set, our purpose,

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Speaker 1: and our culture, and you know, we hire our fire

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Speaker 1: on the basis of it. You know, we do things

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Speaker 1: like in order to keep the culture front of mind.

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Speaker 1: When we have a meeting, we have what's called values moment,

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Speaker 1: so we have six values. We pick one and someone

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Speaker 1: will give an example of where our people have exceeded

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Speaker 1: expectations or our client's been super happy, and it's just

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Speaker 1: always talking about culture. Rewarding on value set. We have

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Speaker 1: what we call purpose work, where we demonstrate our purpose

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Speaker 1: continually during that week. We have an awards ceremony around

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Speaker 1: our purpose. So it's always kind of talking about it

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Speaker 1: and culture suits some doesn't suit others, but that's okay,

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Speaker 1: you know it might change it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. So how do you manage conflict?

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Speaker 3: Then when people don't see things away that you do.

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Speaker 1: I think what happens is they almost self.

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Speaker 3: Select, okay to a degree.

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Speaker 1: Now, like that, it's probably easier to have a discussion

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Speaker 1: around someone and say, hey, you know, this culture is

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Speaker 1: not for you, and maybe you should think about looking

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Speaker 1: elsewhere where there's a match. You know. Yeah, it's actually

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Speaker 1: quite easy to manage when your values driven organization.

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Speaker 2: I completely agree, but that's the problem. I think most

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Speaker 2: people aren't prepared to go all in with it. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of like, oh, we have it and it's like

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Speaker 2: on the wall, and it sounds good and it keeps

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Speaker 2: board happy, but it's not something we're willing to die by.

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Speaker 3: Boll. But what you're saying is this is who we are.

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Speaker 1: And who we are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really crystal clear.

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Speaker 1: And it's crystal clear. It's not something we just put

439
00:19:18,041 --> 00:19:19,081
Speaker 1: on the wall and that's it.

440
00:19:19,241 --> 00:19:21,921
Speaker 2: You're not an Australian based company only, you're global, right,

441
00:19:22,001 --> 00:19:24,041
Speaker 2: So in fact, I think your presence is even bigger

442
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,160
Speaker 2: overseas now, correct. So managing a culture and keeping it

443
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,160
Speaker 2: it's come from the top, right. You can't be everywhere

444
00:19:29,201 --> 00:19:31,321
Speaker 2: at once. So how do you ensure that culture is

445
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:32,401
Speaker 2: consistent globally?

446
00:19:32,561 --> 00:19:35,521
Speaker 1: Yes, good question. I mean we've got about five hundred

447
00:19:35,521 --> 00:19:37,240
Speaker 1: people in Australia and the rest are in North and

448
00:19:37,281 --> 00:19:40,041
Speaker 1: South America. So yeah, it's a big base of people

449
00:19:40,041 --> 00:19:43,241
Speaker 1: in those locations. So apart from corporate culture, you've got

450
00:19:43,241 --> 00:19:46,360
Speaker 1: the cultural overlay, Like you know, Chilano people are different

451
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,880
Speaker 1: from Peruvians, different from Brazilians, different from Canadians, et cetera.

452
00:19:50,921 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 1: Australians and Canadians you know, speak English, but again some

453
00:19:54,801 --> 00:19:58,041
Speaker 1: differences in their culture. So you've got that to deal with,

454
00:19:58,201 --> 00:20:00,801
Speaker 1: and then you've got the corporate culture to bring everyone together.

455
00:20:01,321 --> 00:20:05,360
Speaker 1: So you know, the exact team is spread. Okay, we

456
00:20:05,481 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 1: call it the Executive Leadership Team, the ELT. We've got

457
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,921
Speaker 1: people in Toronto, we've got people in Vancouver, We've got

458
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,041
Speaker 1: members in Chile and then obviously Australia. So plus we

459
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:20,281
Speaker 1: travel a lot. I would spend half of my time overseas,

460
00:20:20,721 --> 00:20:24,201
Speaker 1: so there's visible leadership. You've got to have visible leadership.

461
00:20:24,561 --> 00:20:27,121
Speaker 1: And this is where companies that are going offshore from

462
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:30,201
Speaker 1: Australia fail. They think they can do it just through

463
00:20:30,321 --> 00:20:34,041
Speaker 1: zoom and remote control and not by having visible leadership.

464
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 1: We get together as a leadership team face to face

465
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,161
Speaker 1: three or four times a year, and we bring groups

466
00:20:40,241 --> 00:20:43,880
Speaker 1: around the organization together around those times. So there's a

467
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,281
Speaker 1: lot of interaction, a lot of discussion, not at touch points,

468
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,640
Speaker 1: but you've got to work at it, and you can't

469
00:20:50,721 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 1: just assume it's going to happen, because it doesn't. And

470
00:20:53,561 --> 00:20:55,440
Speaker 1: you know, it takes a long time and you have

471
00:20:55,481 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 1: to be patient. And sometimes it's successful in some parts,

472
00:20:58,681 --> 00:21:01,001
Speaker 1: sometimes it's not, and if it's not, you change out

473
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:06,761
Speaker 1: local leadership. It's constantly just monitoring organization constantly.

474
00:21:07,001 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 3: You talked about hiring to culture fit, right, you know

475
00:21:09,201 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 3: when people talk.

476
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 2: About hiring skill over attitude or attitude over skill, Like,

477
00:21:12,721 --> 00:21:14,441
Speaker 2: what's the number one thing you're looking for?

478
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,121
Speaker 1: No cultural fit? I mean the competency level you get

479
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:20,281
Speaker 1: that from a long list to a short list. Yeah,

480
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: the rest is there a culture fit. And if for example,

481
00:21:25,041 --> 00:21:28,961
Speaker 1: I'm interviewing someone for one of my execs, I'll get

482
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 1: three or four different people to talk to that individual

483
00:21:32,281 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 1: culture fit. I like that person out to dinner, I

484
00:21:35,561 --> 00:21:38,001
Speaker 1: will get to know them. I will probably interview them

485
00:21:38,041 --> 00:21:38,961
Speaker 1: three or four times.

486
00:21:39,281 --> 00:21:42,001
Speaker 3: Do you wow, that's a commitment. But I like it.

487
00:21:42,561 --> 00:21:44,641
Speaker 3: I like this three or four people interviewing because people

488
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,001
Speaker 3: will manage up very well.

489
00:21:46,041 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 1: And yeah, totally. You know, even there's a key role

490
00:21:48,921 --> 00:21:53,601
Speaker 1: that maybe reports two levels down, I will probably say, hey,

491
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't mind talking to that person. But if that fits

492
00:21:56,721 --> 00:21:59,281
Speaker 1: not right, it's cause it's so much AGray.

493
00:21:59,761 --> 00:22:00,321
Speaker 3: I love that.

494
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,681
Speaker 2: To me, that's bravery because there are so many companies

495
00:22:02,721 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 2: out there that just would like to think they do this,

496
00:22:05,321 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 2: but they don't.

497
00:22:06,001 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: They don't.

498
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,921
Speaker 2: They just key what's on the paper and they'll take

499
00:22:08,961 --> 00:22:11,041
Speaker 2: all the damage that that does. I mean the damage

500
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 2: of hiring the wrong person. It's immense, right.

501
00:22:13,961 --> 00:22:17,041
Speaker 1: And what I always say to our hiring managers as such,

502
00:22:17,521 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 1: if you feel you've got it wrong very early, do

503
00:22:20,041 --> 00:22:22,961
Speaker 1: something about it. Is it doesn't get better. And if

504
00:22:23,001 --> 00:22:26,281
Speaker 1: you look at the statistics, the best of the best

505
00:22:26,321 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: recruitment people in the world get it right three out

506
00:22:29,041 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: of the four times. Generally ask mere mortals fifty percent

507
00:22:33,761 --> 00:22:36,801
Speaker 1: of the time. Now, that's a lot of times when

508
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 1: you don't get it right. But you've got to do

509
00:22:38,721 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 1: something about it. And it's not always easy to do

510
00:22:40,961 --> 00:22:41,601
Speaker 1: something about it.

511
00:22:41,681 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 2: I know that you obviously have done a lot of

512
00:22:43,761 --> 00:22:46,001
Speaker 2: work to ensure that the people who work for you

513
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,561
Speaker 2: and around you has shared view and belief right, but

514
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 2: you are still one man, right, so the ability to

515
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,481
Speaker 2: control you have to have a lot of trust is

516
00:22:53,481 --> 00:22:54,881
Speaker 2: what I'm getting to hear, right, you have to trust

517
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:55,961
Speaker 2: that people are going to do the right thing.

518
00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:58,001
Speaker 3: So how are you with trust? Do you like give

519
00:22:58,041 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 3: it out freely or really?

520
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: I wondered when you were going to get to this

521
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 1: one delegation.

522
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 3: You're a good delegator, I've developed.

523
00:23:07,961 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 1: When you're a doer, you know you're competent in doing

524
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,921
Speaker 1: what you're doing, and all of a sudden, then you've

525
00:23:12,921 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: got to lead people, and you've then got to delegate,

526
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 1: and then they give you back the work and I

527
00:23:20,961 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 1: have to do all this myself. Don't worry, I'll do

528
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 1: it myself. Go and do something else, and you have

529
00:23:25,241 --> 00:23:29,001
Speaker 1: to fix it. You can't progress like that, right number one.

530
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,041
Speaker 1: To be a decent leader, a good leader, you've got

531
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,641
Speaker 1: to be able to delegate and trust. And that takes,

532
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,321
Speaker 1: my observation, young leaders very long time to transition through that.

533
00:23:38,801 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 1: They feel they can do things quicker, they feel they

534
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,721
Speaker 1: can do things better, And let's face it, no one

535
00:23:43,761 --> 00:23:47,441
Speaker 1: can do things as good as you, right, nobody. That's

536
00:23:47,481 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: how it is. That's us, that's our makeup, right, that's true.

537
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,761
Speaker 1: But you know what, at some point in time, the

538
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: details don't really matter. You know, the little nuances that

539
00:23:57,001 --> 00:24:00,281
Speaker 1: you have some they don't really matter in big picture matters,

540
00:24:01,281 --> 00:24:04,321
Speaker 1: and so eventually good leaders decide that they can delegate.

541
00:24:04,921 --> 00:24:08,481
Speaker 1: Then they start to trust. That's probably the more difficult part.

542
00:24:08,481 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 1: And trust is earned over time as simple as that.

543
00:24:10,961 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 3: People need to earn your trust. You won't give it

544
00:24:12,481 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 3: to upfront.

545
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:15,641
Speaker 1: No, it's pretty hard to give upfront. I think it's

546
00:24:15,681 --> 00:24:19,881
Speaker 1: an earned thing. You know. Some people start with trusted

547
00:24:20,041 --> 00:24:23,681
Speaker 1: ten and they work down. Some people trust start from

548
00:24:23,761 --> 00:24:25,401
Speaker 1: zero and they work up.

549
00:24:25,481 --> 00:24:25,681
Speaker 3: Yeah.

550
00:24:25,801 --> 00:24:28,601
Speaker 1: You know, in some instances, I've gone ten and I've

551
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,961
Speaker 1: got zero pretty quick, and I've learned from that. So

552
00:24:32,321 --> 00:24:34,801
Speaker 1: I probably start mid scale and work up or down.

553
00:24:34,921 --> 00:24:37,321
Speaker 2: I get that very logically right, when you get burnt,

554
00:24:37,681 --> 00:24:39,561
Speaker 2: you know, or as someonellow as you trust, you can

555
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 2: really take that step back. On the flip side, I

556
00:24:41,961 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 2: think in such a fast pace moving world, I feel

557
00:24:45,921 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: like the ability to build relationships fast right is to

558
00:24:50,241 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: your advantage.

559
00:24:50,761 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 3: Were certainly it is in my industry, in my space.

560
00:24:52,801 --> 00:24:55,241
Speaker 2: I need to. And so therefore I feel trust and

561
00:24:55,281 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 2: vulnerability go hand in hand. You know, they kind of

562
00:24:57,201 --> 00:24:57,761
Speaker 2: match each other.

563
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:58,681
Speaker 3: Right, So if I.

564
00:24:58,681 --> 00:25:00,801
Speaker 2: Give you a better my vulnerability, right, and I should

565
00:25:00,801 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 2: tell you a bit about me and you tell me

566
00:25:02,441 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: a bit about you. Trust kind of builds a lot faster,

567
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,001
Speaker 2: probably over index on the other way, which is I

568
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:08,521
Speaker 2: kind of do give that trust up front.

569
00:25:08,681 --> 00:25:10,041
Speaker 3: Sure, I could get burned.

570
00:25:10,521 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: But I sort of think the opportunity to move faster

571
00:25:13,681 --> 00:25:14,601
Speaker 2: with the relationship.

572
00:25:15,201 --> 00:25:17,921
Speaker 1: You know, I agree with you. I work on building

573
00:25:17,921 --> 00:25:19,761
Speaker 1: the trust, yes quickly.

574
00:25:19,561 --> 00:25:22,281
Speaker 3: Right, got it. Okay, it's just like you sit back

575
00:25:22,321 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 3: in that business like, yeah, I got it.

576
00:25:25,241 --> 00:25:26,201
Speaker 1: Building it quickly.

577
00:25:26,321 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that.

578
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: And that can be in all sorts of different ways.

579
00:25:31,041 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: You know, not necessarily the vulnerability piece, but it's about delivery,

580
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: delivery of outcomes. You see what happens in tough situations,

581
00:25:38,441 --> 00:25:42,201
Speaker 1: et cetera. So you know, I think young leaders they

582
00:25:42,201 --> 00:25:44,561
Speaker 1: take time to get to that point. And I think

583
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: you know, for me, I never set out to be

584
00:25:46,921 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: a leader of this organization. I really didn't. I said, no,

585
00:25:50,201 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to present a very competent, different service to

586
00:25:55,201 --> 00:25:59,041
Speaker 1: the industry. So I wanted this company to be known

587
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 1: to differentiate by providing low cost, well engineered solutions in

588
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: the mining industy. Street mining's very capital intensive, and so

589
00:26:08,561 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 1: I wanted to minimize the capital and still achieve outcomes

590
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,761
Speaker 1: and that's our purpose, finding a better way. You know,

591
00:26:14,801 --> 00:26:16,681
Speaker 1: we're engineers, that's what we do. We should be able

592
00:26:16,681 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: to build something for a dollar that it takes a

593
00:26:19,281 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: person on the street ten dolls. Right, So that's what

594
00:26:22,041 --> 00:26:24,521
Speaker 1: was my focus. And then all of a sudden the

595
00:26:24,681 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: company grew and I thought, wow, I've got to be

596
00:26:26,721 --> 00:26:29,041
Speaker 1: a leader, you know, I've got to figure that out

597
00:26:29,041 --> 00:26:31,281
Speaker 1: a bit, and I'm going to have some strategy here,

598
00:26:31,481 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: and you know, organizational development, and my natural style is

599
00:26:35,761 --> 00:26:38,721
Speaker 1: pace setting leader. So that always doesn't work, you know,

600
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,321
Speaker 1: that can burn people out around you. So there was

601
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: a whole then transition piece and evolving piece that I

602
00:26:44,521 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: had to go through to become a leader.

603
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

604
00:26:47,681 --> 00:26:49,681
Speaker 3: I like that because it as a privilege, right, It's

605
00:26:49,721 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: not just a thing.

606
00:26:50,521 --> 00:26:51,561
Speaker 1: Leadership is apprivilege.

607
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 3: Yes, I agree.

608
00:26:52,281 --> 00:26:55,281
Speaker 1: It can be taken away as quickly as it is. Yeah,

609
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:57,041
Speaker 1: so people disrespect it.

610
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 3: I agree. What part of leadership is still your greatest challenge?

611
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,281
Speaker 1: That's a really interesting one. I've never thought of it

612
00:27:03,481 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: like that.

613
00:27:04,001 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: Excellent is hoping to get something you cann't otherwise you're

614
00:27:06,961 --> 00:27:07,441
Speaker 3: just too good.

615
00:27:09,921 --> 00:27:16,521
Speaker 1: The greatest challenge is probably when someone is not delivering constantly,

616
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,841
Speaker 1: having to either make a decision to keep coaching them

617
00:27:22,321 --> 00:27:26,321
Speaker 1: or to say, hey, this isn't working because of the

618
00:27:26,441 --> 00:27:30,321
Speaker 1: impacts that you've alluded to. That replacing people's heart, and

619
00:27:30,721 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: that's probably the most challenge.

620
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:33,721
Speaker 3: I just think that means you've got a big heart.

621
00:27:33,801 --> 00:27:35,961
Speaker 1: To me, Ah, I don't call me a softy yet.

622
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,321
Speaker 3: No, I never said softy. Oh my god. The opposite

623
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 3: a big heart is not something. It's I think it

624
00:27:41,521 --> 00:27:41,721
Speaker 3: kind of.

625
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 2: It segues very much into my last letter of brave,

626
00:27:45,001 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 2: which is I think and the reason I have it

627
00:27:46,721 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 2: last and I teach it last because I think it's

628
00:27:48,201 --> 00:27:49,761
Speaker 2: the hardest one to master, which is empathy.

629
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: Right.

630
00:27:50,561 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 3: So that's why I wanted to go there before I do.

631
00:27:52,201 --> 00:27:54,321
Speaker 2: I just wanted to ask you one more thing sitting

632
00:27:54,321 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 2: in that space of vulnerability, because I asked this so

633
00:27:57,201 --> 00:27:58,041
Speaker 2: many people and I.

634
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 3: Get very very dancers. Can you have it all?

635
00:28:00,441 --> 00:28:02,881
Speaker 2: You're a very successful man. You've built this incredible business.

636
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,001
Speaker 2: One could say, look at him, he's reached the pinnacle

637
00:28:06,041 --> 00:28:07,041
Speaker 2: of success and happiness.

638
00:28:07,241 --> 00:28:08,521
Speaker 3: Can you have it all? Or do you have to

639
00:28:08,561 --> 00:28:09,721
Speaker 3: give up something to get there?

640
00:28:10,041 --> 00:28:12,801
Speaker 1: Something has to be given out? Yeah, it just doesn't

641
00:28:12,961 --> 00:28:14,361
Speaker 1: all happen naturally.

642
00:28:14,561 --> 00:28:16,041
Speaker 3: Do you look back and think you were doing anything

643
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,001
Speaker 3: differently or not.

644
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: The way I say to people now is that I

645
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: keep working because I'm just starting to get good at

646
00:28:22,561 --> 00:28:22,921
Speaker 1: my job.

647
00:28:24,281 --> 00:28:24,721
Speaker 3: It's true.

648
00:28:24,801 --> 00:28:27,561
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got all this experience and you can see

649
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,521
Speaker 1: problems before that happen, really, and you can see trends

650
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,321
Speaker 1: and you see all When you're kind of young, you

651
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,881
Speaker 1: haven't got that. Yeah, and so you make mistakes. Yeah,

652
00:28:37,041 --> 00:28:40,401
Speaker 1: but making mistakes probably good. I think I'm making a

653
00:28:40,481 --> 00:28:43,681
Speaker 1: mistake provided it doesn't burn you too badly. I just

654
00:28:43,761 --> 00:28:47,081
Speaker 1: wish i'd had some of that experience, and we all

655
00:28:47,121 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: wish that.

656
00:28:47,601 --> 00:28:49,841
Speaker 3: And that doesn't happen whenever you reached it.

657
00:28:49,921 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: When success, I mean you had this beautiful purpose for

658
00:28:52,281 --> 00:28:54,361
Speaker 2: your organization, which I like because it's kind of it

659
00:28:54,401 --> 00:28:56,641
Speaker 2: doesn't have an endpoint, right, which makes me wonder if

660
00:28:56,681 --> 00:28:58,601
Speaker 2: you'll ever retire or you're going to be working forever.

661
00:28:58,761 --> 00:29:00,801
Speaker 2: But you know, is there a point where Zimmy goes,

662
00:29:01,361 --> 00:29:03,841
Speaker 2: I'm done, I'm successful. I've done it, like I ticked

663
00:29:03,841 --> 00:29:04,841
Speaker 2: these boxes in my life.

664
00:29:05,081 --> 00:29:07,761
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it's around I'm successful. I've ticked

665
00:29:07,801 --> 00:29:11,721
Speaker 1: the boxes. It's around am I being useful?

666
00:29:12,081 --> 00:29:12,281
Speaker 3: Am My?

667
00:29:12,521 --> 00:29:15,561
Speaker 1: Actually making a contribution that's going to make a difference

668
00:29:15,641 --> 00:29:19,121
Speaker 1: to this organization or to its people, because if that

669
00:29:19,481 --> 00:29:22,361
Speaker 1: comes to that point, well, you know, well I'm taking

670
00:29:22,441 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: up space really, So it's not I've achieved this place

671
00:29:27,361 --> 00:29:31,721
Speaker 1: of great utopia and its success is wonderful, and you know,

672
00:29:32,001 --> 00:29:34,081
Speaker 1: now it's time for me to sail off. It's more

673
00:29:34,881 --> 00:29:38,121
Speaker 1: usefulness and contribution for me then starting to get some

674
00:29:38,601 --> 00:29:42,241
Speaker 1: maybe work life balance. I don't know. I enjoy it.

675
00:29:42,441 --> 00:29:45,801
Speaker 1: I like it. What I really enjoy most is watching

676
00:29:46,081 --> 00:29:49,881
Speaker 1: young people develop and young people, you know, his careers

677
00:29:50,001 --> 00:29:52,961
Speaker 1: really open up, and you know, if I can be

678
00:29:53,121 --> 00:29:55,121
Speaker 1: part of that, I really love them.

679
00:29:55,561 --> 00:29:57,801
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, your son now leads the Vancouver region,

680
00:29:57,801 --> 00:29:58,401
Speaker 3: I believe.

681
00:29:58,241 --> 00:30:02,361
Speaker 1: Really North America, although he's recently come back and he's

682
00:30:02,641 --> 00:30:05,561
Speaker 1: what we turn working off the bench on special assignments.

683
00:30:05,921 --> 00:30:08,041
Speaker 3: Okay, what was it like to sort of hand over

684
00:30:08,081 --> 00:30:09,401
Speaker 3: part of the business the next generation.

685
00:30:09,641 --> 00:30:13,001
Speaker 1: It's quite satisfying. He started his career out in the

686
00:30:13,081 --> 00:30:15,041
Speaker 1: field at a very young age. You know, he's sort

687
00:30:15,081 --> 00:30:17,561
Speaker 1: of nineteen twenty when he first went out in the

688
00:30:17,601 --> 00:30:20,241
Speaker 1: field and got a lot of experience, so you know,

689
00:30:20,321 --> 00:30:24,041
Speaker 1: he's had to prove himself and probably that extra bit

690
00:30:24,201 --> 00:30:25,281
Speaker 1: being that he's my son.

691
00:30:25,521 --> 00:30:31,761
Speaker 3: M a extra tough on it, not from you, but okay, yeah, true,

692
00:30:32,721 --> 00:30:35,121
Speaker 3: I guess you. Yeah, Dad's up here exactly.

693
00:30:35,281 --> 00:30:38,201
Speaker 1: He handles it pretty well, and you know, he's pretty

694
00:30:38,201 --> 00:30:39,921
Speaker 1: good at what he does, and I'm proud of him.

695
00:30:40,001 --> 00:30:42,121
Speaker 1: He's exceptional person, exceptional leader.

696
00:30:42,241 --> 00:30:43,761
Speaker 3: So we're talking about empathy.

697
00:30:43,841 --> 00:30:46,041
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just making this is my own summary

698
00:30:46,121 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: from chatting to you, But typically I talk to leaders

699
00:30:49,041 --> 00:30:51,121
Speaker 2: at your level about how do you keep your ego

700
00:30:51,241 --> 00:30:51,561
Speaker 2: in check?

701
00:30:51,681 --> 00:30:52,801
Speaker 3: Right, because you're going to have to have a bit

702
00:30:52,841 --> 00:30:54,521
Speaker 3: of ego, a little bit right. You can't get the

703
00:30:54,561 --> 00:30:55,041
Speaker 3: top without it.

704
00:30:55,281 --> 00:30:56,761
Speaker 1: I've got to have a bit of yeah.

705
00:30:57,041 --> 00:30:59,601
Speaker 2: Yeah, but also too much goes the wrong way, right.

706
00:30:59,721 --> 00:31:01,481
Speaker 2: I can tell yours is a great balance. I feel

707
00:31:01,521 --> 00:31:03,161
Speaker 2: like a lot of it might come from your upbringing.

708
00:31:03,361 --> 00:31:04,121
Speaker 1: It does. Yeah.

709
00:31:04,321 --> 00:31:08,121
Speaker 3: Does that then directly affect the way that you show

710
00:31:08,161 --> 00:31:08,801
Speaker 3: up with empathy?

711
00:31:09,121 --> 00:31:10,761
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think so, yeah, totally.

712
00:31:11,361 --> 00:31:12,641
Speaker 3: Yeah. How do you see empathy?

713
00:31:12,681 --> 00:31:15,121
Speaker 2: Because it's an interesting topic. I think people like to

714
00:31:15,161 --> 00:31:16,801
Speaker 2: think they are, but then what does that really mean?

715
00:31:17,041 --> 00:31:18,921
Speaker 2: When you think about being empathetic? What does that mean

716
00:31:18,961 --> 00:31:19,081
Speaker 2: to you?

717
00:31:19,321 --> 00:31:22,161
Speaker 1: I think just caring for people and showing an interest

718
00:31:22,241 --> 00:31:25,961
Speaker 1: in people. You know, something happens in someone's life, whether

719
00:31:26,041 --> 00:31:29,121
Speaker 1: it's a birth of a child or death of a parent,

720
00:31:30,001 --> 00:31:31,961
Speaker 1: you know, fronting up and talking to them in both

721
00:31:32,041 --> 00:31:35,841
Speaker 1: of those situations, you know, like you're just showing an interest,

722
00:31:35,921 --> 00:31:38,521
Speaker 1: and it's a genuine interest. If you're empathetic, you can't

723
00:31:38,601 --> 00:31:41,321
Speaker 1: hide it, right, It's not something you come along and go, well,

724
00:31:41,601 --> 00:31:43,641
Speaker 1: the book says, I've got to be empathetic. Now, how

725
00:31:43,681 --> 00:31:46,041
Speaker 1: do I do that again? No, you're right, it comes

726
00:31:46,081 --> 00:31:49,801
Speaker 1: from within and it's just kind of understanding what makes

727
00:31:49,841 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: them tick. It's really interesting. You know, sometimes all of

728
00:31:52,481 --> 00:31:57,001
Speaker 1: a sudden, someone's performance work goes off. Generally it's something

729
00:31:57,041 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: in their personal life, right, marriage issue or a grandparent,

730
00:32:00,881 --> 00:32:03,161
Speaker 1: diet or something like that, And it's just getting in

731
00:32:03,321 --> 00:32:05,881
Speaker 1: and understanding that and then being able to deal with it.

732
00:32:06,641 --> 00:32:09,801
Speaker 1: It's not just me. That's how the leadership team behaves.

733
00:32:09,961 --> 00:32:11,681
Speaker 3: Yes, but they only do it if it comes from you.

734
00:32:12,081 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're comfortable doing it too.

735
00:32:14,401 --> 00:32:18,841
Speaker 2: We're people organizations, but I love you say that, but

736
00:32:18,961 --> 00:32:19,601
Speaker 2: you're saying that not.

737
00:32:19,721 --> 00:32:22,281
Speaker 3: We're a mining organization, so there are people a people. See,

738
00:32:22,321 --> 00:32:24,001
Speaker 3: that's great number one for.

739
00:32:24,121 --> 00:32:26,921
Speaker 1: Us, right, if you look at our five years strategy,

740
00:32:27,161 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: the first pillar of its people people development, getting the

741
00:32:30,281 --> 00:32:33,801
Speaker 1: best people, and we have a future Leader's program and

742
00:32:34,001 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: assessing our future leaders and supporting them. We've got two

743
00:32:37,841 --> 00:32:40,601
Speaker 1: or three hundred graduates and they're on graduate development programs

744
00:32:40,641 --> 00:32:44,921
Speaker 1: which we interact with. So we're all about developing our

745
00:32:45,001 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: people so they can be the best they can be.

746
00:32:47,721 --> 00:32:49,521
Speaker 1: And if they don't want to be a leader and

747
00:32:49,561 --> 00:32:51,161
Speaker 1: they want to stay technical, we want them to be

748
00:32:51,241 --> 00:32:54,641
Speaker 1: the best technical person in the world and we'll support

749
00:32:54,681 --> 00:32:57,121
Speaker 1: them with that. So if you're only going to buy

750
00:32:57,201 --> 00:32:59,721
Speaker 1: into the little bit that makes the money, oh, you're

751
00:32:59,761 --> 00:33:01,561
Speaker 1: not going to be successful. You've going to buy in

752
00:33:01,641 --> 00:33:02,521
Speaker 1: the whole piece. You know.

753
00:33:02,801 --> 00:33:04,881
Speaker 3: I have to ask me then, you know I can't

754
00:33:05,041 --> 00:33:06,681
Speaker 3: imagine retirements even on the horizon for you.

755
00:33:07,001 --> 00:33:08,841
Speaker 1: No, I reckon, I've got another startup in me.

756
00:33:09,401 --> 00:33:12,841
Speaker 3: What Sily? This is good.

757
00:33:13,041 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: This is good because I think what we touched on

758
00:33:15,281 --> 00:33:18,601
Speaker 2: earlier was I think when you get older, like I

759
00:33:18,721 --> 00:33:20,761
Speaker 2: know myself right in forty three, and I've had a

760
00:33:20,801 --> 00:33:23,641
Speaker 2: couple of people go, I'm sorry, forty three single mum,

761
00:33:23,801 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: you've decided to start up another business.

762
00:33:26,241 --> 00:33:27,481
Speaker 1: That's wrong with that? Thank you.

763
00:33:27,801 --> 00:33:29,761
Speaker 2: I still wanted to hear because you know, you also

764
00:33:29,801 --> 00:33:31,801
Speaker 2: talked at the beginning about getting your ducks in a

765
00:33:31,921 --> 00:33:34,921
Speaker 2: row and not taking risk, having that sort of risk awareness.

766
00:33:35,401 --> 00:33:37,761
Speaker 2: Sometimes you have to take a leap, sometimes you have

767
00:33:37,921 --> 00:33:39,801
Speaker 2: to do something where there's not a guarantee.

768
00:33:39,921 --> 00:33:43,041
Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah, Warren Buffett. I think only started investing in

769
00:33:43,121 --> 00:33:45,601
Speaker 1: fifty five, did he Yeah, I mean it didn't start

770
00:33:45,641 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: at twenty five. Yeah, And there's lots of evidence of

771
00:33:48,521 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: people starting companies, you know, later in life. I've got

772
00:33:51,201 --> 00:33:54,041
Speaker 1: a lot of ideas, and so I feel, yeah, with

773
00:33:54,161 --> 00:33:56,801
Speaker 1: the right people, I could do something. As you get older,

774
00:33:57,121 --> 00:33:59,521
Speaker 1: you might work smarter. You put that term, and I

775
00:33:59,601 --> 00:34:02,321
Speaker 1: think there's a lot to that. Yeah, But I just

776
00:34:02,441 --> 00:34:04,921
Speaker 1: don't see an issue with someone at forty three start

777
00:34:05,161 --> 00:34:05,601
Speaker 1: a business.

778
00:34:05,961 --> 00:34:06,841
Speaker 3: No, well I didn't either.

779
00:34:06,881 --> 00:34:09,681
Speaker 2: It's amazing how I've been categorized as sort of a

780
00:34:09,721 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: little over the hill to sort of be doing things

781
00:34:11,601 --> 00:34:15,081
Speaker 2: like that. I'm like, thanks, people, No, I don't care either,

782
00:34:15,241 --> 00:34:18,081
Speaker 2: But I think that's reassuring, especially for listeners who you know.

783
00:34:18,201 --> 00:34:20,121
Speaker 2: Too many people I speak to are in jobs that

784
00:34:20,361 --> 00:34:23,241
Speaker 2: don't motivate them, and you know they've got a secret

785
00:34:23,281 --> 00:34:24,441
Speaker 2: passion or a skill.

786
00:34:24,281 --> 00:34:26,321
Speaker 3: And I'm like, why wouldn't you You only get kind

787
00:34:26,361 --> 00:34:26,881
Speaker 3: of one chance.

788
00:34:27,001 --> 00:34:30,441
Speaker 2: Yet the ingredients are more than just hey, I've got

789
00:34:30,561 --> 00:34:32,481
Speaker 2: X amount of dollars in the bank, risk adverse. Yes,

790
00:34:32,561 --> 00:34:34,401
Speaker 2: you have to consider those things. Yes, but at the

791
00:34:34,441 --> 00:34:38,841
Speaker 2: same token, that self belief that true. Like you said

792
00:34:38,841 --> 00:34:40,881
Speaker 2: the word, I know I was going to be successful.

793
00:34:40,881 --> 00:34:42,561
Speaker 2: I knew I was going to be successful. You know,

794
00:34:42,641 --> 00:34:45,121
Speaker 2: I know what that feels like. Right, I have that too,

795
00:34:45,161 --> 00:34:47,441
Speaker 2: And I think when you have that off, you go, right.

796
00:34:47,521 --> 00:34:47,841
Speaker 1: You can go.

797
00:34:48,081 --> 00:34:50,801
Speaker 2: I don't know what that success looks like, but you

798
00:34:50,841 --> 00:34:52,841
Speaker 2: get know the feeling, so it's a tangible thing. I

799
00:34:52,921 --> 00:34:55,481
Speaker 2: completely agree. When do you celebrate? You know, when are

800
00:34:55,481 --> 00:34:56,721
Speaker 2: we clinking out the champagne?

801
00:34:56,841 --> 00:34:57,041
Speaker 1: Do you?

802
00:34:57,161 --> 00:34:59,801
Speaker 3: Or you always? Because I worry that's something I don't do.

803
00:34:59,921 --> 00:35:01,881
Speaker 3: Oh when a client and then I'm thinking about the

804
00:35:01,921 --> 00:35:02,401
Speaker 3: next client.

805
00:35:02,561 --> 00:35:07,121
Speaker 1: No, very early in Nosenka's life, we celebrated success. You did, okay,

806
00:35:07,241 --> 00:35:11,001
Speaker 1: and you know what that success was? Back in nineteen

807
00:35:11,121 --> 00:35:14,481
Speaker 1: ninety one is very different. Yeah, we wouldn't celebrate the

808
00:35:14,521 --> 00:35:19,081
Speaker 1: same things, but we celebrate milestones. It's that social interaction

809
00:35:19,201 --> 00:35:22,081
Speaker 1: where we get groups of people together if we've achieved

810
00:35:22,121 --> 00:35:24,841
Speaker 1: something exceptional, we like to celebrate it.

811
00:35:25,161 --> 00:35:26,321
Speaker 3: What about yourself personally?

812
00:35:26,601 --> 00:35:26,801
Speaker 1: Yeah?

813
00:35:26,921 --> 00:35:27,841
Speaker 3: Are you proud of yourself?

814
00:35:28,201 --> 00:35:31,081
Speaker 1: Am I proud of myself? Yeah? Yep, I am just

815
00:35:31,201 --> 00:35:34,161
Speaker 1: starting to be proud of myself, just starting. Yeah, it's

816
00:35:34,281 --> 00:35:37,161
Speaker 1: not something I you know, sort of sit back and

817
00:35:37,521 --> 00:35:39,801
Speaker 1: you know, sort of in the comfy chair and big

818
00:35:39,961 --> 00:35:42,641
Speaker 1: sort of comforting smile on my face. It's not that

819
00:35:42,921 --> 00:35:47,161
Speaker 1: it's I like celebrating milestones with people, you know, Like

820
00:35:47,281 --> 00:35:50,321
Speaker 1: I don't sit there and go let me have a

821
00:35:50,841 --> 00:35:54,361
Speaker 1: nice glass of red wine to celebrate this. No, I

822
00:35:54,641 --> 00:35:58,881
Speaker 1: like going, hey, come on everyone, let's go down have

823
00:35:58,961 --> 00:36:02,241
Speaker 1: a nice dinner and talk about our success here. Yeah,

824
00:36:02,321 --> 00:36:04,041
Speaker 1: but I feel comfortable with myself.

825
00:36:04,201 --> 00:36:05,921
Speaker 3: Yeah I'm not comfortable. Yeah.

826
00:36:06,121 --> 00:36:08,041
Speaker 2: I think I'm talking about more of an internal thing.

827
00:36:08,161 --> 00:36:10,721
Speaker 2: Like I think for me, the number one thing before

828
00:36:10,761 --> 00:36:12,521
Speaker 2: you can be empathetic is also didn't know how to

829
00:36:12,601 --> 00:36:15,201
Speaker 2: have some self compassion, right, be kind to yourself.

830
00:36:15,201 --> 00:36:17,321
Speaker 3: A lot of people find that very difficult. Easier for

831
00:36:17,361 --> 00:36:19,161
Speaker 3: them to be kind to others and not to themselves.

832
00:36:19,281 --> 00:36:21,481
Speaker 1: Yeah, I probably am fall into that category.

833
00:36:21,681 --> 00:36:21,881
Speaker 2: Yeah.

834
00:36:22,121 --> 00:36:26,921
Speaker 1: I'm always self assessing strengths, weaknesses, and born with your weaknesses.

835
00:36:26,961 --> 00:36:28,841
Speaker 1: A lot of it's the na you can't change much

836
00:36:28,881 --> 00:36:32,281
Speaker 1: of it. I'm of the play your strengths, yeah really, yeah,

837
00:36:32,401 --> 00:36:35,521
Speaker 1: to your strengths and get someone to worry about your weaknesses.

838
00:36:36,241 --> 00:36:38,401
Speaker 3: Hire someone by the way.

839
00:36:38,841 --> 00:36:44,561
Speaker 1: I'll hire a form filler and just focus on those strengths.

840
00:36:44,841 --> 00:36:46,921
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to make you feel n comfortable and say,

841
00:36:46,961 --> 00:36:49,761
Speaker 2: I think you're bloody brilliant and I do. I doan

842
00:36:49,841 --> 00:36:51,601
Speaker 2: to for a lot of people. And you know, I

843
00:36:51,721 --> 00:36:55,241
Speaker 2: think about organizations. When I ran my consultancy. The reason

844
00:36:55,281 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: I started it is because too many people weren't happy

845
00:36:57,001 --> 00:36:59,761
Speaker 2: where they worked. And I think everything you said today,

846
00:37:00,001 --> 00:37:02,161
Speaker 2: I hope people who listen can see that you can

847
00:37:02,241 --> 00:37:05,521
Speaker 2: create a great culture by putting people first, by having

848
00:37:05,561 --> 00:37:08,241
Speaker 2: this mindset, by having a real purpose. Like when you

849
00:37:08,321 --> 00:37:11,241
Speaker 2: talk about Cinco's purpose, it's't about profit. Profit is not

850
00:37:11,321 --> 00:37:13,681
Speaker 2: a purpose and people who think it is get it

851
00:37:13,761 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: really terribly wrong. And so you've created a world where

852
00:37:16,481 --> 00:37:19,001
Speaker 2: people can come to work and feel like they're contributing

853
00:37:19,041 --> 00:37:21,521
Speaker 2: to something bigger and I think it's amazing and I

854
00:37:21,601 --> 00:37:21,801
Speaker 2: love it.

855
00:37:22,001 --> 00:37:23,801
Speaker 1: Well they are, you know, some of the people we

856
00:37:23,961 --> 00:37:27,081
Speaker 1: have like, they're incredible. Right, I'll go to a project

857
00:37:27,161 --> 00:37:29,601
Speaker 1: site at four five hundred meters in the high and

858
00:37:29,801 --> 00:37:32,161
Speaker 1: he's a big copper project and I'll see you know,

859
00:37:32,641 --> 00:37:38,361
Speaker 1: Senko sign and people will delivering in this environment amazing outcomes.

860
00:37:39,161 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: And that's what I get. The kick out.

861
00:37:41,161 --> 00:37:42,561
Speaker 3: M still lets you up.

862
00:37:42,761 --> 00:37:47,801
Speaker 1: I am so lucky to be working with amazingly good people.

863
00:37:47,921 --> 00:37:51,521
Speaker 1: It humbles me. Actually, every time I go around the organization,

864
00:37:51,681 --> 00:37:55,601
Speaker 1: I see what they do, their world class I just go,

865
00:37:56,041 --> 00:37:59,801
Speaker 1: how did I deserve this? How all these people working

866
00:37:59,881 --> 00:38:03,161
Speaker 1: at Asenco. That's just incredible that you know, managed to

867
00:38:03,201 --> 00:38:08,121
Speaker 1: attract some brilliant people and deliver industry leading solutions. That's

868
00:38:08,161 --> 00:38:09,121
Speaker 1: a really yeah.

869
00:38:09,201 --> 00:38:11,521
Speaker 2: That would pump you up well, because I mean, I

870
00:38:11,601 --> 00:38:13,761
Speaker 2: could talk to you forever, but I can't because I'm

871
00:38:13,761 --> 00:38:15,401
Speaker 2: allowed to talk for too much longer. So I want

872
00:38:15,441 --> 00:38:18,321
Speaker 2: to finish by sort of asking you because you're a

873
00:38:18,481 --> 00:38:19,881
Speaker 2: lot of good advice, a lot of wisdom, lot of

874
00:38:19,921 --> 00:38:20,481
Speaker 2: nuggets with you.

875
00:38:20,641 --> 00:38:22,561
Speaker 3: And I think maybe this is a bit.

876
00:38:22,481 --> 00:38:25,161
Speaker 2: Selfish, but if you were to give anyone starting a

877
00:38:25,201 --> 00:38:27,601
Speaker 2: business right, what are the two or three best bits

878
00:38:27,641 --> 00:38:28,201
Speaker 2: of advice that.

879
00:38:28,201 --> 00:38:28,841
Speaker 3: You could give them?

880
00:38:29,361 --> 00:38:32,041
Speaker 1: Believe in yourself, make yourself right. We spoke about that,

881
00:38:32,681 --> 00:38:34,721
Speaker 1: and HI are really good people hire, really good people,

882
00:38:34,881 --> 00:38:37,761
Speaker 1: are really good people. Hi. Smarter people than what you are.

883
00:38:37,841 --> 00:38:39,121
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying to you, but I'm sure.

884
00:38:39,201 --> 00:38:44,001
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree, smart yeah yeah, that culturally fit

885
00:38:44,281 --> 00:38:45,721
Speaker 2: becomes done.

886
00:38:45,881 --> 00:38:48,121
Speaker 3: I'd love it. There's been a pleasure having you. Thank

887
00:38:48,161 --> 00:38:48,521
Speaker 3: you to me.